Thursday Morning Fly By: That's it?
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 9:49 AM EDT
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Five Reasons the NHL is in trade and free agent gridlock this summer: [Puck Daddy]
- Jeremy Roenick was on Daily News Live yesterday, and he won't apologize for crying. [The700Level]
- Nikolai Zherdev was on a conference call yesterday, so naturally that was the big (only) story of the day: [Flyers] [CSNPhilly] [Flyer Files]
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I do remember Roenick saying that he was rooting for us before the series started, so I do believe him that he probably would have gotten emotional either way. I’m sure that in both cities, Chicago and here, he heard over and over again about the cup droughts on his current team; since it would have been 27 years without a cup in Chicago on the first day he took the ice with them in 1988, and 26 years here when he came to us in 2001.
PS – Is this officially the shortest fly-by ever?
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 10:03 AM EDT reply actions
http://www.fromtherink.com/2010/7/15/1570740/buyer-beware-simon-gagnes-injury
another gagne article. this is encouraging for trade talks “The good news is that Gagne only has one year on his deal. Since the majority of NHL teams that need offensive help are scared off by Ilya Kovalchuk’s contract demands, there might be a small bidding war for Gagne’s services” i read today that lightning and toronto are interested via espn
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 10:03 AM EDT reply actions
Roenick
i dont really care, i understand Roenick supporting the blackhawks over the flyers (if he was) fully. Dont understand why the crying thing was addressed to philadelphia on daily news life. It was just more a general thing, everyone made fun of him for it because it was funny. Has nothing to do specifically with the flyers as far as im concerned.
At this point this thing is stupid, it was funny, now it’s over, time to move on.
Roenick’s one of my favorite players, he speaks his mind without fear, is hilarious, and played like a warrior (wired shut jaw anyone?) for the Flyers.
I’ll never forget the day the news broke the Flyers had acquired him from the Coyotes, I was down the shore, and started screaming runnning upstairs to tell my dad.
Best jersey purchase i ever made was Mark Recchi, 2nd best – Jeremy Roenick. I still wear both proudly.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
if the Flyers win the Stanley Cup, I’m pretty sure I’ll cry too. seriously.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 15, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
i cried when the phillies won on the phone with my. and i fully admitted that to my friends and everyone who has me on gchat. did not care at all.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll admit I cried at the end of the Game 7 win over the Bruins. After being so nervous and tense for 4 straight games (and all the days in between), it was a tremendous relief for it to finally end. I just collapsed on the couch and laid there for a while, completely emotionally spent.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Gagne
As for Gagne.
Yes this Kovalchuk business getting teams all hyped up about wingers, could end in something nice for a Gagne trade.
Gagne might have had his injuries and is a bit older. But he’s got a lot of things that come at a premium in any sport
- tons of playoff experience
- veteran experience in general
- purely positive presence and influence
- the guy can still make shit happen especially in the playoffs
if we can pull Quick (at only 1.8 million) for Gagne, and have some cap space after signing the guys we need to, that would be lovely. still dont like Carcillo on the first line, but we dont have enough money to do anything else and hopefully Carter and Richards working together (fingers crossed) will be enough for that line. If Car-bomb clears the way for Richards and Carter and Lavy keeps cracking the whip on his stupidity down, we should be fine.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions
i understand your issues with carcillo. i agree with most of them. but if you look at the richards line as one of the three scoring lines as opposed to the first line, having carcillo on it is much easier to swallow.
by isavedlatin on Jul 15, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed. i think i was unclear with my issues with carcillo on the first line early. Right now it’s acceptable, but I just feel (given cap room) this team should keep it’s mind open about finding a better top line winger than Carcillo for the future seasons.
And that still might come in the form of a Carter trade, even after Gagne. If you can move Carter for two wingers that can play with Richie, especially if those two wingers are equal around Carter’s future, probably 6 mil salary, it’s dumb to keep tying so much cap space into so many individual players, this team just simply wont be able to stay balanced at all.
Something is going to have to give, even beyond Gagne. It’s gonna be have to be either Carter, Briere, or Hartnell. And i dont see the last two being anywhere near as moveable or netting the return Carter will.
But that’s for another time.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
thats why if we move Gagne, and have a bit of cap room leftover after signing zerdev and carcillo and maybe a goalie, move boosh’s salary, then sign powe.
Powe is a great utility guy, he’s so underrated. Powe has speed and can penalty kill and he can split time with Shelley on the fourth line and has enough skill to split time with Carcillo on the first line.
that’s your best answer besides miraculously finding a 1st line RW instead of Carcillo
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
No matter how much we like Carcillo, he’s no where near as talented offensively as Richards and Carter. Making him their winger will only hurt their production, regardless of how much Richards likes having Carcillo as his wing.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 15, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah i’m also hoping for quick and if not quick then picks and prospects to fill farm system. Then we can go sign Turco. I’d rather Turco starting than Leights or Boosh
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
If we get Quick at that price we might be able to get a UFA winger to avoid the Carcillo on a scoring line problem.
doubtfull
Gagne’s 5 mil – Quick’s 1.8 mil – Zerdev – Carcillo – Powe?
no room for any more wingers
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t sign Powe or send him down he is not needed, he is a fast skater who works hard with hands of stone he is a less skilled Nodl who we already have.
we’ll just have to agree to disagree on Powe and Nodl. Id much prefer Powe.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
That spot is our spare forward. Carcillo is our 4th line grinder.
There are plenty of wingers available on the market who would come cheap and be a major skill upgrade over Powe to play top 9.
(pardon the spelling too hard to copy and past)
LW
Kariya, Torres, Lehitenen, Panikarovsky,Modin, Fedotenko,Stempniak
RW
Demitra ,Selanne, Guerin, Svatos, Afinogenov, Sykora
where are you finding this cap room?
Gagne’s 5 mil buys you Zerdev and Carcillo and a goalie which we need over a top line forward. Leighton should not be starting if it can be avoided.
also a lot of those guys mentioned are probably going to want more than we can spend.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Add Boosh and Cote Gagne’s 5 million is more like 6.7million here is some math
6.7 million – 2.5 million (our current overage) = 4.2 million
4.2 million – 1.8 million (Quick) = 2.4 million under
1.5 million for one year deal on a skilled vet winger = 0.900 wiggle room
your missing the point that we need Cap to sign Giroux and carter next year too. we cant afford to lose anymore then the 4.2 we’ll have
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I said one year deal do you not know what that means
the 1.5 million will come off the books next year along with Zherdevs 2.00 mill, Carcillo 1.1 milllion, O’Donnell’s 1.00 million.
So that leaves us 5.6 mill under. and Carter should stay around 5 mill(if he gets 7, I’ll shot him, then Homer) and Giroux will get 3.5ish. leaving us 2 under to sign 3 spots.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Don’t forget about Leino needing to be resigned as well.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 15, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
5.6 million to sign or replace if the cap stays put if it goes up which you never know I suggested it would go up this year in January and got laughed at but it do so you never know.
Zherdev
O’Donnell
Giroux (sign)
Carcillo
it goes up if the Playoffs do well. Like the first Pitt SCF, it went up a lot, the ext year went up, but not as much, and last year went up a lot.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
My point is you don’t know. Say Leino gets crushed and concussed he did take a lot of hard hits in the finals alone. Too much head down stuff. You just don’t know but we will have options next year only have to lose one of those 3 guys. Leino, Giroux, Zherdev depending on this season that is not cap hell that is inevitable when you are a good team.
????
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
flyers are going to spend to the cap every year. they will always have cap problems bc they will always try to use all of it bc they will always want to win.
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I would kick a baby to get Kariya. Imagine:
Carter – Richie – Kariya
Hartnell – Briere – Lenio
JVR – Giroux – Zherdev
Lappy – Betts – Powe
Labamba (aka David Laliberti)
Pronger – Carle
Kimmo – Mez (feel free to move Mez or coburn around is you want)
coburn – O’Donall
Leighton
Boosh
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Based on the above math I give you this lineup
Carter – Richie – Kariya
Hartnell – Briere – Leino
JVR – Giroux – Zherdev
Carcillo – Betts – Lappy
Shelly
Pronger – Carle
Kimmo Coburn
Mez OD
Quick
Leighton
0.900 million in free space
again, we can save another 1/2 a mill by replacing Shelly with Labamba or Powe. this fucker just keeps hurting us
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
just look at that lineup though that is so solid at all levels for this year Nodl is waiting in Glen Falls I swear you couldn’t tell the difference if he wore Powe’s jersey except he is bigger
I like Nodl, but he just misses the passion Powe playes with. Powe is just like Upshall, Nodle is just a good 4-3 liner.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Powe can’t score he has 26 career points. Upshall had 32 points in 49 games last season alone.
Powe is an undrafted walk on, Upshall a former top 10 pick.
Powe is nothing.
Why you hatin’ on Powe, man? You’re the second person this week to just rip on him. Not cool.
I thought we were over that when even Mario defended him awhile ago.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Powe is a top 9 forward he is a fine 4th line guy but that is it. I don’t even think Carcillo is a top 9 forward but he ranks above Powe.
If it came down to Fedotenko and Powe I take Rusty. He is due for another cup anyway.
So? That doesn’t mean he’s nothing. He was 45th in the NHL in 4-on-5 GAON/60, second best on the Flyers. He gave up fewer goals on the PK per 60 minutes than Pavelski, Alfredsson, Drury, Laich, Frolov, Sturm, Laperriere, Umberger, Ortmeyer, Dustin Brown, Pahlsson, Jordan Staal, Backstrom, Horton, Cooke, Weiss…
He’s a very good penalty killer, which is the role he plays. Why does he have to do more than that to get some respect?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Because that roster spot is for Giroux-JVR-Powe that not a PK spot that is skill spot. Lappy and Betts are our PKs and Nodl can probably do all those same things. That is what I am saying.
Why are you assuming Carcillo is on the fourth line? Not only will he probably be on the first line, putting Zherdev on the third line, Powe played all of last year on the 4th.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Because I am hoping Carcillo is on the 4th line where he played in the beginning of the season on that line we called Chico and the Men or something like that before Betts got hurt then Gagne etc.. Forcing Carcillo had to move up. If we start with Carcillo is our top 9 when someone goes down we are really screwed. Trade Gagne sign Zherdev doesn’t add it forward unless they get someone else.
Carter – Richards – Zherdev
Hartnell – Briere – Leino
JVR – Giroux – Carcillo
Powe – Betts – Lappy
How is that bad? You can swap Shelley in during some games, but either way you want to swap Carcillo/Shelley and upgrade. Asham played in that spot all year, and he can’t score 20 goals.
I seriously don’t see why you’re raising expectations that you want 9 different guys to be 20 goal scorers.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
or switch zherdev with carcillo.
and have Carter-Richards-Carbomb
then late in games bring up giroux/zherdev to take carbomb’s spot with Ritchie and Cartsie….or if Carter fails on the wing you can always move Giroux back to wing and open up other possibilities
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, but we need to upgrade that third line winger spot. Which we could have done by signing Zherdev!
Gagne – Richards – Carter
Hartnell – Briere – Leino
JVR – Giroux – Zherdev
Powe – Betts – Lappy
Carcillo
But NOOOOOOO. We had to go get Meszaros and Shelley, give our backup goalie a $600k raise, so now we have to drop our first line winger, so that we can actually upgrade the goalie position, but now we have to upgrade the third line winger spot again.
ARGH.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
So what I am getting here is that you aren’t totally on board with Homer’s quote Plan unquote…
I felt the need to spell out quote and unquote did more than just the marks themselves.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Im not sure Holgren would have went after Zherdev if he hadn’t already decided he had to move Gagne.
But what if he can’t? Is Homer stupid enough to give away Gagne for nothing? When guys make one move anticipating another will fall in line, they usually get left in the cold wondering what went wrong.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Powe was, before his injury, 2nd on the team in goals with 7 in 15 games. Upshall had a huge season, but mainly because he played with Doan and other good players in Phx. If you look at their Flyers numbers, they are very simaller, along with their style of play
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Powe is the type of 3rd/4th line player that successful teams need.
I think it’s an apples to oranges comparison to compare Powe’s points to Upshall’s last season. They were playing completely different rolls.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 15, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
We have Lappy we have Betts we have Nodl we have Carcillo we have plently of 4th line guys I want a guy who can score 20 goals on my 3rd line. Not Powe.
yeh thats zerdev, powe wont be playing 3rd line.
powe would platoon with Shelley on the fourth line and Carcillo on the first line.
thats pretty much the lines are setup.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
There were only 110 forwards to score 20 goals in the NHL last year. Divide that by NHL teams, and you have 3.667 per team.
Third line guys don’t score 20 goals. Powe had exactly 3 goals less than Carcillo last year, in 13 fewer games, and Powe didn’t get to play with Gagne and Richards.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
not too mention Powe wont even be playing third line it will probably be JVR, Giroux and Zerdev.
and Zerdev can score 20 so you’ll get your wish.
Powe wont be a regular on any line, he would platoon and penalty kill
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Powe did play with Gagne and Richards for like a week or so at the end of January. But that’s just a nitpick.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. 7.18% of his 682 minutes, or 49 minutes. Carcillo spent 23.9% of his 836 minutes, or 199.8 minutes.
Carcillo spent FOUR times as much time with Gagne and Richards.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, yeah, that wasn’t to you. Re-reading that, I see how that could come off angry.
It was more of a “Powe still scored without as good an opportunity as Carcillo, especially considering Powe wasn’t asked to score while Carcillo was expected to net some.”
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont know where you’re getting this mysterious money to sign another winger.
we need a goalie that’s not named leigton much more than another winger.
i already did the math for you.
Gagne’s 5 mil = zerdev + Carcillo… that’s 3 million. The other 2 buys you Turco or Quick for 1.8 mil if we somehow get him a trade.
there’s no room for another winger. Carcillo will have to play first line, which he’s done before with Richards.
thats why they should sign Powe, who will fight right in with the minimal amount of cap room they will have left, to fill out minutes with Shelley and Carcillo.
also as stated we’re losing Gagne on the penalty kill already, id like to keep Powe whocan penalty kill rather than lose him too. Nodl cant penalty kill. Powe has shown me more than Nodl.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
We don’t carry Boosh and his 900K if we get a goalie and we are going to cut Cote as well that is another 1.4 million right there.
still not going to happen. I’ll be happy if they just get another goalie
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Listen, I really like Nodl, but he’s got 1 goal and 4 assists in 48 regular season games, and you’re criticizing Powe as having hands of stone? Yes Nodl has a lot of skill that isn’t displayed by those numbers, and I like both players a lot, but Nodl’s numbers at the NHL level really don’t support your argument. Neither of them is ever going to be a pure goal scorer.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly they are the same damn guy and we don’t need two of them when Nodl has a two way contract and Powe will not.
Powe is cheaper and arguably more important that Nodl. Yes Nodl can kill penalties but he lacks Powe’s speed and goalscoring ability. Powe might not score more than 10 goals a year but Nodl is lucky to score 5
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Nodl biggest asset is speed but Nodl is cheaper because he can go to Glen Falls and only needs to be called up if injury. Nodl also filled in nicely for Lappy on the PK in the playoffs so I think he can do that well.
i think Powe is fast and a better penalty killer.
Also like you said Nodl is a minor-leaguer. We need a more regular bench guy. We need a player that can regularly fill out minutes with Carcillo and Shelley.
Powe’s the guy. Nodl is a guy you call up when Powe or someone else gets injured.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I rather have Shelly as the Cote bench guy and Carcillo as the regular and Guerin/Kariya/whoever on my top line with Carter and Richie. That is better than having Powe. You have to admit that is a more potent lineup.
yeh but Leightin is then your starting goalie.
not better overall team.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
no he is not again here is the math please add carefully
Cutting Boosh and Cote, Gagne’s 5 million is more like 6.7million here is some math
6.7 million – 2.5 million (our current overage) = 4.2 million
4.2 million – 1.8 million (Quick) = 2.4 million under
1.5 million for one year deal on a skilled vet winger = 0.900 wiggle room
other teams will sign guerin, kariya and afinegove for more than 1.5 or 1.6 million.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
But the money only counts if they’re at the NHL level, so they can demote Powe too they just have to pay him his full amount while he’s in Adirondack. And our organization has never had a problem doing that anyway.
So since it only counts against the cap when they’re up with the Flyers anyway, you can’t say Nodl is cheaper because Powe’s cap hit is going to be at least 200k less.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
And that can happen to Nodl too, he loses waiver exemption not far into this year. So if he starts the year with the Flyers and gets sent down in say, early December, he’ll have to go through waivers and can be claimed.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
two-way deal means one salary in the NHL, another in the AHL. Whether a player has waiver exemption or not depends on a multitude of factors, of which DG surely can explain better than me.
Something about years played, games played, age, etc.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Geoff is correct, the different salaries are all a 2 way deal means. Once a player has played enough years or NHL games to no longer be waiver exempt, it doesn’t matter if it’s a 1 way contract or a 2 way contract, they still have to go through waivers and can be claimed.
Nodl signed his first SPC at 21. For that age category, once you’ve played 3 years or 80 NHL games, whichever comes first, you start having to go through waivers. This takes effect immediately once the required number of games of NHL experience is reached, so if he’s played 79 games and they waive him he’s exempt, but the day he hits 80 he starts going through waivers. Postseason games count toward that total, so Nodl has 58 NHL games as of right now. If he started the season with the Flyers and played on the fourth line, he’d reach 80 games during the 3rd week of November this year. If he’s just an injury callup, it’ll take longer to hit the 80 game mark.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's your options once Gagne's salary is cleared and Zerdhev and Carcillo are signed, and even if boosh, cote are moved
Turco/Quick/goalie + Powe + Cap room + Carcillo first line
or
Leighton starting + Nodl + Right winger (on top of Richards and Carter already on the same line) + no cap room
im taking option one. much more balanced team
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you no get that. You can have your goalie and you winger we are not going to go into the season with much cap room. That is not how we roll we spend to the cap like you said.
and i dont see how we afford it
Boosh and Cote cleared buys 1.4 million. Other teams will sign Guerin, AFinegenov, Kariya for more
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly. it’s option one or two and I think that they resign Powe and are done with forwards and go with option one.
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
yep.
if the argument is we can buy a 1st line winger for 1.5 or 1.6 million. that’s a nice dream. i hope it happens but i feel like the teams that need to load up on players and are way below the cap will sign them for more than 1.5 or 1.6 million
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
So you are saying teams are going to over pay for guys so that can reach the cap minimum. There are others out there besides those names Fedotenko for example or someone will not get 3million because the Islanders have to spend it on someone. Why didn’t they go over Zherdev for bigger money they we paid him. If we can get Zherdev for 2million we can get Fedotenko or Guerin for 1.5 especially Guerin who you can pay more and have it not count on the cap do the veteran bonus exemption.
Wait, Powe scores 15 goals in 123 games, or 0.12 goals per game, and Nodl scores 1 in 48 games, or 0.02, so Powe and Nodl are the same guy when Powe’s production is 6 times that of Nodl? Sorry, that just made me laugh.
While they can both play on the 4th line and both can play on PK (but Powe is far more experienced at it, we’re only one year removed from Nodl’s defense being strongly criticized as something he needed to work on), to say they’re the same guy is silly.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to defend Nodl here. His only shot came under Stevens, and wasn’t really given a clear role. Since then he has completely adapted his game to become defensively responsible. Also, I dug up the numbers before, and I’m too lazy to do it again, but I can if you want…but Nodl has a better point per game production than Powe if you look at their AHL numbers.
Nodl may be done as an offensive producer, I can’t really argue that. But I think if he got into a steady role on the team, and got a little confidence going, he could easily be a 10-15 goal guy.
But I agree the 2 guys aren’t the same, but their opportunities haven’t been the same either.
First, you know I really like Nodl too. If he was on the third line with JVR and Giroux, I think he can be more than what he is. To me, he can either play that role and hopefully find 10 or 15 goals, or he can play fourth-line PK specialist and pot 2-4.
But, like you said, they aren’t the same player. You can’t compare a 2nd round pick who went over the point-per-game mark three straight years before turning pro to an undrafted free agent who’s best year was 28 points in 34 games (2nd best? 16 points in 27 years).
Nodl should have been the third-line winger from within this year, but he a) wasn’t given a great opportunity; b) was asked to change his game this past year; c) Had Holmgren decide signing Jody Shelley and Dan Carcillo would be better.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree completely…but you know I have to defend him haha…I can’t help myself. I love that little Austrian.
Why? It’s not like you have his jersey or any—— oh.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 15, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Just so I’m clear, I was just trying to stay within the context of chris’ original argument. I really do like Nodl, it’s just that I was railing against the original viewpoint, which was that Powe had hands of stone but Nodl doesn’t, and that they’re exactly the same; I was just trying to use the numbers to prove that one assertion about Powe incorrect. I didn’t mean for my comments to be taken in a vaccuum, and I’m sure I wasn’t clear enough about it. I know how you feel about Nodl.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Powe also came out favourably in the penalties drawn/taken fanpost by The Dark, and in my turnover/giveaways fanpost. Say what you want about his hands, but he does his job well.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Yeah like I said Powe is nothing as in nothing happens when Powe is on the ice we don’t score they don’t score. While that is a good trait to have on a fourth line guy it is not what you with Giroux and JVR your young offensive talent. Asham wasn’t good enough offensively in my opinion to play with them I rather add someone else.
I don’t think your first sentence is very accurate. Powe has a 2.42 GFON/60, tied with Gagne and better than Mike Richards and Giroux. And his GAON/60 is middle of the pack for the Flyers.
Asham had the fifth highest GFON/60 of the entire team last year, only behind Briere and Carle.
So while they may not seem like a good skill guy to have on all the time, both those guys made the most of their opportunities.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Todd proved your initial assertion wrong, but even if it was right, could it be the fact that he’s playing with Betts and Laperriere, who aren’t exactly offensive weapons? Could it be that his role in the 4th line is to play defensively and he’s sticking to that role? I don’t see how you can translate him doing a great job on the fourth line to him being competely unsuitable for the third.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 16, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to speak for chrislanci but he isn’t knocking Powe for not being a more proficient point getter but merely that his talents are merited for what he accomplishes and we have six other guys doing it already just as well if not better. We just signed Carcillo, we have Noodle, we have Laliberte. We now don’t need Powe. I would actually rather have powe and asham over Carcillo but that decision is made.
Just Call Me "M"!
Haha, no DG, you were clear. It wasn’t really directed at you. I completely agree they aren’t the same player. They may be put in the same role on the team, but they aren’t the same player. I just like defending Nodl. Like Travis said, you kind of have to when you own 2 of his jersey’s, which is double the current total amount of Nodl jerseys owned by the rest of the hockey fans around the world. This was more so lamenting Geoff’s point. Nodl could have signed on that 3rd line in my opinion, or at least would have been given the chance to show if he actually belongs in the NHL in a point production manner. At least this way we would know, one way or the other. At this point, I don’t seem him ever being used, and hope he gets traded to a team that has at least room to give him some ice time.
Carcillo isnt our 4th line grinder, Shelley will be on that line regulary and he better be for what he’s getting paid.
That leaves Carcillo on the first line, since Richie likes playing with him and that seems to be the consensus here that he’ll play first line with richards. doesnt mean its definite but it seems to be the case.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
or
we send Shelly down and clear another 1.1 mill
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
we’re not sending down a guy we just signed.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
everyone’s hating on shelley, but for the money we just gave him, he better play, and i want him to. I want him out so I dont have to watch things like the blackhawks and bruins take cheap shots at our places with no fear.
i was about to put a hole in my tv watching the blackhawks gun for Leino’s head later in the series, while the Flyers couldnt do anything about it and the refs were ignoring it.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s not going to play in the postseason. He doesn’t solve that problem.
If he’s in the minors, Snyder is out money, but we don’t have to worry about Jody Shelley getting paid. I don’t think signing someone to a bad contract justifies compounding the mistake. (If indeed he isn’t good enough in this lineup, which I don’t think is true. I just thinking using the contract is excuse is bullshit: he should play because he’s better than the other options we have signed.)
were the F**KING FLYERS
when have teams ever, in our history, been obliged to take runs at us. Also, Shelly is a 3 min goon, which mean that hes only going to hit the ice if hes going to fight. so its not like hes doing any real policing out there. Also, these 3 min goons are so easily suckered. Look at Orr last year, he took a lot of penalties buy trying to start fights, and the other player didnt fight him. so for a whole 2 mins of productive ice time, hes gonna take 7 mins in penalties a game? definitely not worth it. Aslo, as an opposing player, I would be way more scared of Carcillo then Shelly. just look at him, hes a frakin psycho. Finally, Shelly would never EVER be on the ice when players like Carter or Richards or Giroux are being run at. So what the f**k would those opposing players be scared of? jack shit. At least Carcillo can play 20+ mins a game, and is on the ice when Richards is.
Plus, Shelly still gets paid but when hes in the Phantoms, it doest count against the cap.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
again
If I wanted a guy to go out there and just fight and do jack shit at everything else hockey related, I would take Cote a league minimum the Shelly at 1.1 million.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Cote cant intimidate, he loses most of his fights. He just gets beat up. Cote cant enforce anything. And I think Shelley can actually play in the NHL. He’s done it for several seasons with the Ragners and Sharks. Cote is nothing more than perenniel minor leaguer who gets the occassional call up.
i dont really feel like arguing for Shelley anymore. His contract is homer’s fault. But as far as himself, wait till he puts on the orange and black and plays to find out if you like him or hate him.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
he played what, 21 games with the Rags last year? I dont hate the guy, But I dont think I can ever like him because his contract sucks major ass. His career high in points is 10, and cant do shit but play 3 mins a game and fight. Thats the reason I hated Cote so much. i would be fine with Shelly is we didnt have Carcillo, but now that we do, hes just so useless and cost too much.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
totally agree. it should have been one or the other btwn Carcilllo and Shelley
and who knows im supporting Shelley and i could end up hating him more than you. im just gonna wait and see.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not defending the Shelley signing, but let’s be fair to him… He only played 21 games with the Ranger because he didn’t get there til Feb 12th, he played 36 games with the Sharks and then was injured for 23, so it’s not like he was a scratch.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
no one’s defending the signing itself. it was awful for that money. but as far as the player and what he brings, ill wait on it.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Shelley wouldnt have to be on the ice when they’re being run out, he would come out and after and take care of business.
no way anyone would be more scared than Carcillo. And they arent. teams arent intimidated by Carcillo, they are just annoyed by him. Carcillo isnt an enforcer
and as for teams being obliged to take runs at us.
the bruins and blackhawks sure didnt seem to care about our history as tough guys when they were taking shots Ville Leino everytime he was on the ice or knocking over JVR.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont know where your getting Cheap shots from either series. If you consider every big hit to be taking a run at somebody, then by all mean, every game theres cheap shots all over. The only real dirty teams in the NHL are Toronto, Ottawa, and……I cant name another real dirty team. And guess what, those teams blow. So your saying you’d stoop down to Torontos level? and what, be shitty for years. I wouldnt
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
dude im done defending Shelley you hate him congratulations.
if he sucks he sucks. im going to wait until he puts on the uniform and plays.
hate him now, hate him with all your heartly desire.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No one hates him. A lot of people think he’s unnecessary in this lineup. Even that is more of a reaction to Clarke and the Era of Giant Pylons than the signing of Shelley.
i first thought he was unnecessary in the lineup too. when i saw 1.1 million for him, i was like why are we trying to still be the broad st. bullies to win a cup.
im just tryin to be see some positive for the situation considering its happened and its not going to be undone
my apologies for trying to look for the bright side of a bad situation.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
all im saying is at least wait until he plays for the team. but apparently thats not allowed either. we have to hate him immediately and never let up.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What people are hating on is the management of resources, which—in this offseason in general, and in this transaction in particular—has been pretty poor. That’s really all that can be judged during months when the Flyers aren’t playing hockey.
I think the reaction was to be expected, and I think there have been ample cavaets as to the extent of complaint: everyone on here will acknowledge that Jody Shelley seems to be a great guy, and have enough hockey skill that he deserves to play on an NHL lineup. As always, the real issue is Homer looking at our lineup, and throwing too much money at a problem that wasn’t really there in the first place.
You’re already losing Gagne as a potential forward on the PK. If you lose Powe too that’s even more PK time that needs to be absorbed by another forward.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 15, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Jeff Carter can do EVERYTHING he’s so good.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
The Puck Daddy article’s useful, since it shows who needs to add salary, since you have to be within $16m of the cap. I checked the cap hits at NHLNumbers, since it looks like PD forgot to account for buyouts. The teams with significant gaps:
NYI (need to add $11.817m). The Islanders have 6 forwards, 2 forwards signed but without terms disclosed yet, and 3 RFA forwards, 8 defensemen, and 2 goalies.
ATL (need to add $11.294m). The Thrashers have 9 forwards, 5 RFA forwards, 6 defensemen, 1 goalie, and 1 RFA goalie.
COL (need to add $10.233m). The Avalanche have 10 forwards, 3 RFA forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goalies.
STL (need to add $8.552m). The Blues have 9 forwards, 2 forwards signed without terms disclosed, 3 RFA forwards, 5 defensemen, 1 RFA defenseman, and 2 goalies.
Tampa and LA need to add salary as well, but they’re almost to the floor and need multiple players, so they don’t have any real issue. These four teams are the ones that we should be looking to flip salary to (Meszaros, for example), since they need more high-cost players.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
i doubt we’re flipping meszaros, homer wanted a diesel defense, he’s got it (hopefully). I doubt we’re moving any defensemen, and frankly i dont want us to, unless our plan is to get another defensemen. just adding odonnell isnt enough of an upgrade defensively. while I like the Odonnel move, i like it only as a 6th defensemen. He’s too old to solve the problem of reducing Pronger and Timmonen’s minutes. Meszaros right now solves that. Unless we get another defensemen if we move Meszo.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, our only large contracts (>$2m) without NTCs are (in order) Carter, Pronger, Meszaros, Carle, and Coburn. If we’re going to drop salary, it will come from the defensive corps unless we move Gagne, since Carter’s apparently not in discussion right now. Of the four defensemen without NMCs, I’d prefer to deal Meszo, so that we have Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Coburn, O’Donnell, and Bartulis (plus anybody picked up) as the defense. He’s the second most expensive, and has the second longest contract. I like his potential, but he doesn’t fit into our current cap reality.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
agreed, i would like to move Meszaros and find another defensemen.
but you absolutely need another defensemen. You cant have Pronger and Timmonen playing the minutes they did last season. And they will play similar minutes, if you just have O’donnell a 37 year old out there.
Meszo might be moved at some point in the next couple of seasons but I very much doubt its happening now.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, here are the cheap (<$1m cap hit) defensemen from each of those teams:
NYI: Jack Hillen, Andrew MacDonald, Bruno Gervais
ATL: Boris Valabik
COL: Ryan Wilson, Kyle Cumiskey
STL: none
Out of those, I like MacDonald, Gervais, and Wilson. Hillen and Cumiskey are a bit small, and Valabik’s not a good enough skater (as well as getting stupid penalties).
Honor is no substitute for victory.
give Homer a call, like i said im on board. just dont think it’s happening realistically unfortunately.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
THN is also reporting that San Jose is looking for an experienced d-man. While Meszaros is younger, I don’t think he’s the trade bait. Cobie, maybe. Kimmo … as much as it would hurt, it also moves $6.3 million in salary. Capgeek reports SJ as having almost that much in available space … not suggesting that it’s a great move by ANY means, but maybe something Homer could shock everyone with doing. (In summary, can we just trade Carter already so this wild speculation just ends???)
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by penguinsfan on Jul 15, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
COL could be a good trading option, although they need a D with some size, so I think they’d want Coburn. From them, I’d see if we could get one of their young RWs for cheap (Jones unlikely, but maybe Yip or Stoa, and either one of the D, or a high pick, or maybe even someone like Cohen from BU). They also could use a LW to play with Duchene, so see I think it would be good for Homer to at least see what they would give up for adding in Gagne, especially if they are taking Coburn off of our hands.
Sigh. See my posts yesterday. The day before. The day before that. I specifically mentioned NYI because they are really, really below the cap. I forgot about COL (good point, The Dark,although COL ownership may also be in transition). I did not mention ATL because they have very-bizarre ownership issues right now (makes the Preds look as secure as MTL). I knew about STL but I can’t really figure out what Davidson et al are doing right now.
Trading Meszaros will NOT “weaken” the defense very much. You’ve upgraded tremendously with O’Donnell over Parent/Kracijek/even Jones. A number of analyses on this board during the end of the regular season and playoffs showed that having Bartulis as the 2nd person on the 3rd tandem typically got the best results. Bartulis simply could not be partnered with Parent et al.
Repeating myself, this is the only “out” that Homer has that would potentially get him out of either cap, team, agent or fan jail. But it does require humility.
As I’ve posted, any other move creates problems. And the decision choice pool is shallow.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
I only mentioned COL and ATL because teams MUST be within that $16m mark. If it wasn’t for the floor, I’d have been sticking with our usual suspects in LA and NAS. I’ve got no clue what will come out of those transitional teams, but they’ve got to add at least some salary.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Gotcha. We agree.
NAS is at $43M which is the league’s minimum, and, sadly, about their maximum.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Minor check on this. See below. If they figure out how to get rid of Hartnell, without trashing the team, I’m all ears.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
I love JR
But he is a big fat liar. He never stated he was rooting for Flyers to win pre-series. I heard his interviews and he basically said “well I’m on a Philly station so yes the Flyers, but wink wink nudge nudge, I will be saying the same thing to some idiots with bad mid-west accents in 20 minutes”.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
According to ESPN, he actually said it again on ESPN’s Chicago affiliate, ESPN 1000. Ours is ESPN 950.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nhl/news/story?id=5205208
“I said if you had a gun to my head, I said I did have to [root for the Flyers],” Roenick said on “The Waddle & Silvy Show” on ESPN 1000. “I didn’t want to leave in 1996. If I have to choose, then I have to choose, that’s just what it is.”
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I wanted to mention this in case people forgot, but Powe’s RFA offer sheet is still good until 5 o clock today if the team gets someone off the roster (there’s already 23 players listed). I doubt the two sides could be all that far apart since Powe was arbitration eligible and didn’t elect it, although the team could file paperwork to extend the offer if it’s filed before 5 pm today.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 11:10 AM EDT reply actions
but can we still keep his wife?
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe she is actually no longer his wife, so I guess you’re free to set up separate negotiations.
id like to put a few pucks in her net.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody wants to mention David Sloane in a Flyers jersey? Seriously? There’s an image of Nikolai Zherdev on the internet getting checked by David Sloane and nobody has commented on it…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions
Must have been Sloane’s one and only game with the organization.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I don’t think we ever really owned them the way you own a draft pick, since he wasn’t drafted. He was that one-day pro tryout under emergency conditions guy. I hadn’t realized we gave him an AHL contract though, I missed that. But he was gone halfway through the Phantoms season, it seems.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he wound up on the Kalamzoo Wings in the ECHL. His whole situation was funky.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I feel like that’s where he started the year, they loaned him, then they called him back up… Seravalli did a “Phantoms roster inventory” in February that listed him, but said he’d been scratched for the most recent game.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/frequentflyers/Phantoms_roster_inventory.html
He is still listed on the Phantoms roster if you bring up the regular season one from last year, because he only had an AHL contract. But it looks like he was scratched a lot, since his AHL player bio says he was called back up from the Wings in Novemeber but then only played 20 games for the year, and it specifically lists at least one 9 game scratch streak in January.
http://theahl.com/stats/player.php?id=3072
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly why it’s AWESOME.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s not checking Zherdev. He’s transferring his defensive knowledge and skills to him. Zherdev is making that face because he’s never before experienced this “defense” and it confuses him.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 15, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
haha. If Zherdev is learning defense from David Sloane…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 15, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
so an idea on a gagne trade since Toronto is interested. Gagne for Jonas “the monster” Gustavsson. I know it’s unlikely bc toronto wouldn’t give him up, and gagne probably doesn’t want to go to toronto but it’s an idea
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 12:09 PM EDT reply actions
I would cry
if he went to Toronto
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I don’t know much about Gustavsson but I got the impression that he was a real disappointment. Granted, all his stats need to be interpreted with a grain of salt because Toronto was a poor team but I though he was supposed to be something really special seeing as there was the huge bidding war for him last summer.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 15, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
well he is young in goalie years (25) and goalies take longer to develop. He was a rookie, adjusting to playing in NA, and on a bad team splitting time with Giggy and Toskala. Toronto resigned with for 2 years at 1.35 million. Toronto is going to get rid of Kabarle and/ or Finger so don’t worry about their cap situation
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
he is cost effective 1.35 million, has great potential (flyers were in the bidding war), and could work well splitting time with Leights. Leights and Gustavsson>Leights and Boosh
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be sad, but I’d take that in a heartbeat (no pun intended). I suggested Carter for the Monster and Caputi a little whiel ago, but was shunned here …
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by penguinsfan on Jul 15, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Such as?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
We’d want a big return for carter.
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
So maybe Gustavsson, Caputi, and a couple picks? I figure Caputi is really a prospect – NHL experience or not. I see below you propose the same thing basically …
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Sorry – my own bias there. I would much rather see Carter moved than Gagne. Actually, I’d rather see Hartnell or Briere moved, but that doesn’t much seem likely (comments below notwithstanding).
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
So maybe Gustavsson, Caputi, and a couple picks
Pass.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 16, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
speaking of gagne…it seems like he is getting constantly talked about on other teams blogs…blueshirt banter getting in on it now http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2010/7/15/1570956/rangers-analysis-simon-gagne-is-a
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions
I’m OK with trading Gagne—nobody throw anything at me, it’s a business and the Dawkins thing already completely desensitized me to anything involving Philly sports for the rest of my life—but if he goes to the Rags, I will lose my shit.
That is all.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
i think we’re all accepting moving Gagne at this point, although to me the Gagne thing irriates me much more than Dawkins.
Gagne is moving because Homer failed to manage the cap right again. Everyone can hate the Eagles for not signing Dawkins. But the Broncos gave him 7 freakin years didnt they? No way in hell I’d want the Eagles to match that.
but i digress this isnt an eagles discussion forum.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, not really. Homer could move someone else, like Carter. It doesn’t have to be Gagne, especially b/c a winger is what we need. He just doesn’t want to do the difficult thing and trade someone who’s a potential superstar, even though he’s going to have to deal with this exact same situation next season (and I don’t see the cap situation getting any better next year).
Would you want the Flyers to sign Gagne to a 4 or 5 year deal to keep him here? I’m not so sure that I would.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
well ive been on record as signing a Carter trade makes more sense for both the present and the future.
And no i wouldnt want Gagne, if we kept him signed to a 4-5 year extestion. More like 3 years at like 3 million at the most, preferable 2.5 mil range.
im confused by your post are you arguing for keeping Carter or Gagne, seems like you argued for both?
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
In a perfect world, I’d like to keep both, but the cap situation won’t allow it. I was for trading Carter earlier in the year and would prefer to do that now. We have too many centers and he’s not a 3rd or 4th liner. We need wingers and Gagne fits that mold. I know he’s on the downside of his career, but I think he still has some left in the tank.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
The comments had me laughing – their walk-away point was if we asked for a top prospect or a 1st or 2nd round pick. They were willing to give a middling prospect and a 3rd round or later pick. If their management’s that stingy, the Rags are definitely out.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
The difference between Flyers fans and Rangers fans are while both fanbases are fans of their teams, Flyers fans are actual fans of the game of hockey itself and understand how it works.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, some of the hypothetical demands on here for a Bobby Ryan or Quick/Bernier/Simmonds/entire Kings roster trade have been pretty unrealistic.
true, but a lot of them involved Jeff Carter who is a 40 goal scorer. and warrants a solid return.
the unrealistic ones involving Gagne are a product of a bit of insanity caused by the seemingly endless waiting on a Gagne move.
The only thing the Rangers have to comtemplate is how Boogard is getting what the hell he’s getting.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, I think the sentimentality over Gagne is causing some unrealistic demands. I love Simon, I really do, but he isn’t a keep him at all costs player anymore like a Mike Richards.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
You've hit the nail on the head though!
Why are our projected Gagne trades unrealistic? Why do other teams make hypotheticals that we see as complete lowball offers?
Because Gagne is worth more to the Flyers than he is to any other team in the NHL. From a Flyers perspective, it would take a miracle to get what we, the fans, want for him.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 15, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i’m not sold on the idea that the flyers will trade Gagne for peanuts arguement as it appears there are multiple teams interested and in terms of players available I’d think that Gagne is probably your best bet for a scoring winger after kovy.
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s my only hope. But so far when fans from other teams have been discussing a Gagne trade they’ve been undervaluing him a a lot, but when they see Flyers fans discuss a Gagne trade they think he’s being overvalued. That’s because he means more to us than he does to them.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 15, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
“Constrained choices” (including the need for Gagne to approve a trade) is part of the supply/demand curve problem here.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Well, the Flyers HAVE to move him and so we have to be reasonable with our demands, so sayeth their commenters.
A 3rd round pick is not a reasonable offer for someone of Simon Gagne’s caliber/talents, regardless of his contract/injury history.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
doubleh
see your signature for the wits of the Rangers and their fans vs. the Flyers and their fans.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, it’s more Tortorella, isn’t it? That guy strikes me as being just a nutjob. I could be wrong.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
No, he is indeed a nutjob.
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by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 15, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you can easily make the argument that there are dumb fans all over
to say that Flyers fan know/love the game of hockey more than Rangers fans is kinda bias no?
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
we all hate Crosby and the Penguins
we can roll with that
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as we are saying it here and not on your site it is home town pride, right? The Rangers fan in general is an odd bird for me in that they seem sparse. They certainly aren’t bandwaggoner’s. But they don’t seem to be at the level of of Flyers fans or Bruins fans in fanaticism. And there is that faction of turncoats that route for the Devils now, which I have always found a confusing somewhat blurry distinction. Where else did Devils fans emerge from a swamp somewhere? They had to be ex-frustrated rangers fans.
Just Call Me "M"!
That however is a clear distinction and believe it or not there is an iron clad loyal Islanders fan base who is dead anti Rangers to there very core. Those factions are as divided as Jets and Giants fans or Yankees and Mets fans.
Just Call Me "M"!
yeah but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t isles fans that became devils fans
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
well the reason why the walk away point was for a top prospect or a 1st round pick
is because we don’t need Gagne. He would look nice on the squad, but it isn’t a do or die move.
But you guys do have to move Gagne and if other teams don’t come calling (his cap hit, although it’s only a year, and his injury problems drive his price down) you are probably not going to get as much as you think.
I could be wrong. Just speculation
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
outside of Kovalchuk who on the market is better than gagne? there are many teams rumored to be interested in gagne including the kings, leafs, rangers, and lightning. price is going up.
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I agree
and if the price goes too high, then the Rangers should walk from Gagne.
I just don’t think he will net you guys as much as you would get for him at, say, the trading deadline.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
yes maybe true but the flyers need to move him or another big contract before the season begins and around the deadline it’s harder to pull off big trades bc teams have full rosters filled out and are closer to the cap (less flexibility) and you’d rather a full season of a player over a few months
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
no I meant
that if you guys were trading Gagne at the trading deadline, rather than in a move to remove cap space before the season started, you would net a lot more.
But under the current situations, I just don’t see him getting a kings ransom
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
i think it really depends on the # of teams bidding. it’s not often a top line left wing that is defensively responsible and has proven he can produce in the playoffs (even while hurt) becomes available
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
well this is true
but like I said somewhere below, the Flyers not taking any cap back hurts his price as well. You will need a team who is willing to trade for him and ger no cap relief in return
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
13 NHL teams have more than 10mil in space. 5 of them are below the minimum. Some teams don’t mind the cap hit.
I agree with you, that the return we get will draw moans from a lot of Flyers fans. As long as there are at least two bidders for his services, though, we won’t have to take bottom dollar.
The Rangers will have to send some money back our way they are only 4.4 million in cap space and would like to keep Mark Staal they only way they do it is to send us some cap hit back. Would Ryan Callahan and his 2.3 million dollar contract be unreasonable for Gagne?. I would take that deal.
Carter-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Callahan
Carcillo-Lappy-Betts
Shelly
nice balanced scoring
http://www.rawcharge.com/2010/7/15/1571105/gagne-to-tampa-rumors-with
Yet another team rumored to be interested in gagne. I count 4 teams so far that might have interest: Rags, Leafs, Lighting, and Kings. so let the bidding war begin
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions
despite Homer’s random idiociy at teams. I doubt he’d move Gagne to the Rangers unless it was for something really significant.
even the Hamhuis move, which people panicked over initially because it the Pens, was one of his few calculated moves, knowing he could get a 3rd round pick without worrying about the Pens being able to sign him.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
i too doubt he does it unless they offer something ridiculous for gagne (it’s possible with sather at the helm). He shouldn’t shut them out of the conversation. He should listen to offers from them and then maybe use it to up the price from another team. The only way he trades gagne to rangers is if they are the only bidder (doubtful) or they offer something amazing that homer can’t turn down
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
What could the Rangers even offer us? Stal?
Would be great if we didn’t just overpay Coburn and trade for Mez and his albatross of a contract…albatross to everyone except Homer that is.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Do the Rags have prospects worth trading for? I truly don’t know. I would love draft picks, but as we have seen, Homer doesn’t seem to think highly of draft picks since he trades them out like they are illegal.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
The Rangers have a ton of prospects worth trading for
but none that would be included in a deal for Gagne lol
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
fair enough
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Because if Im him trading in the division I want to make sure its worth it. I wouldn’t pull an Eagles and trade a 10 year starter for a second round pick in the division when i can get the same deal with a team on the other side of the country.
Say the Rangers are really the only teams willing to deal for Gagne
and they offer you a 2nd round pick and Roman Horak (who is a nice mid to upper level prospect) it could get the Flyers thinking.
I just don’t know how willing other teams will be to trade for him, since the Flyers aren’t taking any salary back
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
we’ll take salary back if it’s a goalie that can start and makes less than 2.5 million/ year
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
and of the teams kicking tires on Gagne
how many have goalies like that? lol
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
well we mentioned LAK (Bernier/ Quick), Toronto (Gustavsson).
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
and if that doesn’t work will take the picks and prospects and cap space and go sign Turco
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but Toronto isn't trading Gustavsson
and I can’t see the Kings letting go of Quick
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
oh well we’ll take the picks/ prospects and cap space and give Turco a call (after waiving boosh and Cote)
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Rangers are the only team then you’re fucked and you have to do it. But if theres another team in the west offering pretty much that same deal then you mive him to them instead of the Rangers.
why?
he would look great in Rangers blue
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah he would
look at him, he was meant to skate for the Rangers, lol
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, he’s way too nice of a guy for that.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 15, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you really one to be wielding the hammer of justic
on “nice guys?”
Like I say on RSR, all of Phily belongs in jail :)
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as all of Philly doesn’t belong in jail, we’re cool.
;)
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 15, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Staal would be nice, but the Rangers aren’t interested in moving him. He’s their best defenseman. But I wouldn’t want to see Prospal Gags and Gaborik ripping us a new one everytime played.
they wouldnt if we had Staal/Carle/Timmonen/Pronger on defense.
i would trade Gagne if it involved Staal in a hearbeat even if my heart would break in the process of sending Gagne to become Ranger.
of course none that is going to happen anyways.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
just for the fun of it hypothetically speaking
if the Rangers for whatever reason offered us a really good deal for Gagne, like Sather having an off the end deep moment style trade offered like Staal, again totally hypothetical
What would you do if Gagne used his no-Trade Clause and said it was because he want didnt to play for the Rangersand stopped the deal from happening.
Would you be kinda pissed at Gagne even a little or would that make you love him even more.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions
how badass would that be of Simon. You couldnt hate him for hit.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 15, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, Sather is the most likely to give Simon a nine year contract next summer, so for financial reasons, Gags would probably love to go there.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 15, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Sather: “we would really like to re-sign your client, what are you looking for?”
Gags’ agent: “perhaps you should start?”
Sather: “how about…4 years, 15 million?”
Gags’ agent: “no deal Glen. We’d rather go to free agency.”
Sather: “OK then…I’ll give you 4 years, 20 million. How does that sound?”
Gags’ agent: “I think we’ll be trying the open market.”
Sather: “9 years, 72 million!”
Gags’ agent: “uhh….”
Sather: “with a no movement clause!”
Gags’ agent: “…”
Sather: “that’s my final offer.”
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 15, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Rumor Alert
Just a quick update here, with the Kings now appearing to be falling out of the Kovalchuk sweepstakes it appears they are now making a play for the Flyers Simon Gagne.
Gagne’s agent has reported to ESPN that he has been given permission to talk trade regarding his client with the Kings. His $5.25 million cap hit would most definitely be more friendly to the Kings future cap situation with players like Drew Doughty coming up for contract negotiations in the next couple years.
Also the Kings would be acquring a proven playoff performer with an Olympic gold medal to his name. Gagne is a solid 30 goal, 60 point player in the NHL, and while he is not as flashy as Kovalchuk he could be more valuable to the Kings playoff performance next season.
Update It appears that Simon Gagne and Scott Hartnell could be leaving the Flyers shortly. Possibly sending them both to the Kings, no word on what the Flyers would be receiving in return.
Very Interestink.
You ain't a has-been, if you never was.
why both? unless we are getting something amazing in return Quick plus Simmonds
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, check the source.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 15, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting in terrible way? or interesting in a-maybe-we-can-get-simmonds-and-bernier/quick way
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions