Monday Morning Fly By: It's Us Against the World

by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 10:18 AM EDT in Morning Fly By

Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...

Having an offseason talk with Kimmo TImonen: [EuroFlyers]
A Chicago restaurant is offering $50,000 for the puck that won the Stanley Cup: [Puck Daddy]
Which teams have the best playoff winning percentages since the lockout? [The Copper & Blue]
What about making the All-Star game an NHL v. the World? [Puck Daddy]
The Week in Hockey Blogging has a great paragraph on Simon Gagne. Read it. [From The Rink]

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Another slow hockey day huh.

I would hate an NHL versus World League Stars game. I can’t see it being very competitive, unless it’s close b/c the NHLers don’t take it seriously. Either why, I’d rather keep it the way it is, it’s still a fun event to attend.

That is all.

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 10:24 AM EDT reply actions

I’m glad Kimmo’s event went well, but I’m not ready to think about him retiring at the end of this contract yet, it’s too early for my brain to process that.

I wouldn’t be happy with the NHL vs the World bit either; I feel like every year it will be an issue of “how bad does the NHL look if they lose?” over and over and over again.

by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 19, 2010 10:30 AM EDT reply actions

All-Star games are just a lame idea to begin with. Are they popular in any sport? The game is meaningless and I don’t even think it’s good hockey so it isn’t exciting to watch. To me, the skills competition is the only thing that is mildly interesting. And even that has plenty of dull moments.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Jul 19, 2010 10:42 AM EDT reply actions

I hate baseball, but they are the only one’s that have a meaningful All-Star game since it determines home field advantage in the World Series. There really isn’t any easy way to make the all star game relevant without hurting the sport.

"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."

Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson

by Psy09 on Jul 19, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions

I think baseball got it right in this respect (except the rule about having a player from every team on an All-Star roster). Putting home field/court/ice advantage on the line would make it more meaningful.

Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!

by Andrew Tolliver on Jul 19, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Baseball has a good concept but its wrong. If the game counts they should let the managers and players decide who is the best. The fans vote for their favorites and shaft the people who are actually having an All-Star year. The fans do a good job most of the time but if the game is gonna count, especially for home field advantage they should have the best player there.

by SkookFlyerfan on Jul 19, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

Thats actually a great idea. Get all the managers together one day and let them talk it out. Then vote on the managers that will take to the bench.

Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
"Turner, at midcourt...inside it, at the buzzer, GOT IT!!!!"
We're the Big Ten, who the F@*# are YOU??!?!?!

by Andrew Tolliver on Jul 19, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions

I will renew my support for abolishing the All Star Game and instead using the weekend for a mini Champions league. Let the champs of the NHL, KHL, Superliga and SEL play each other in a round robin to determine the best team in the world.

by The DTrain on Jul 19, 2010 10:53 AM EDT reply actions

I think you have a great idea that none of the four leagues would sign on to.

I highly doubt the players association or the owners would sign off on something that would this weekend worthwhile. The season is already too long. Who would want to put their stars at any further risk?

by Snevik on Jul 19, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed, it’s a fantastic idea, but the suits have sticks too far up their asses to let us have any fun.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Jul 19, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I hope Kimmo retires next year. He’ll retire a beloved Flyer…another supporting notion: Meszaros will be the 4th guy and we’ll have 5+ million cap space. Great players retire, it’s a fact of life. But great players come into their own, too

Preaching the Inglewood Jack

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 19, 2010 11:01 AM EDT reply actions

Kimmo’s still got a few more years left him and we need him. Id rather have Kimmo than his cap space, he’s a world class defender still.

by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 19, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

after this year, he’s worth a significant amount less. I’d say nothing about 3 million due to age

Preaching the Inglewood Jack

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 19, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions

he'll play out his contract

which i believe has three more years left? He said that hes going to retire after that. whats also good is the Meszaros has 3 more years too, so he’ll ultimately become cheaper that offseason. the trick is to convince Giroux, JVR, and Leino to sign for cheap until that season, then give them big contracts.

Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird

Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it

by JpH89 on Jul 19, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

and he’s worth every penny of it, sorry coburnscuddlebuddy but kimmo is elite and played all 82 last yr. he may be 35 but he’s a warrior and won’t retire until he’s played out that contract

by McNabbSoup on Jul 19, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

I wouldn’t say he’s elite. Elite defensemen were the Phil Housleys, Al MacInnis, Rob Blake, Scott Niedermayer, Scott Stevens, Lidstrom and Chris Pronger when they were all in their prime. Kimo is good, but I’d certainly say he’s a tier below the aforementioned guys. Kimo is more on the Sergei Gonchar, Zdeno Chara level. Not the elite, but certainly some of the better defenseman in the league. I evaluate a player according to his cap hit, and 6.55 million for a defenseman who is currently 35, in my opinion, is over spending, regardless of how important he is to the team. In short, I believe we signed a then 32 year old defensemen to an overpaid contract

Preaching the Inglewood Jack

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 19, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions

You’re high. Kimmo is among the ten best defensemen in the league, for my dollar. The best of the best of the best, sir.

by Snevik on Jul 19, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

you’re high. The better defenseman is a year older, and had a SMALLER cap hit when he was in his prime, and has a smaller cap hit now then Timonen.

Timonen is overpaid for his age, Pronger is being paid the correct amount for his age, and is a better defensemen.

Preaching the Inglewood Jack

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 19, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Pronger is better than Kimmo. Pronger is also one of the top three or four defensemen in the league, and the second best of his era, so there’s room for Kimmo to be elite and still the second best defenseman on his team.

There isn’t much these days that can be considered cap-independent, but just the quality of someone’s play can be.

Finally: no, you’re the highest.

by Snevik on Jul 19, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

On any team in the NHL other than the Flyers, Blackhawks, or Predators, Kimmo is the #1 defenseman. Before Pronger, he was our #1 and the only reason we had a working defense in 08-09. Kimmo is #1a here and without him, even with Pronger, our defense would suffer greatly.

"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09

twitter: @princessblueezy

by kmblue on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

when you say elite I picture at least top 5, not top 3. Top 10 includes some of the best defensemen in the league, not so much only the elite ones.

It’s semantics, but elite i reserve for players that excel and are unmatched, (Ovechkin, Crosby come to mind)

Preaching the Inglewood Jack

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

No Kovy signs with Devils post yet?

by ic0n67 on Jul 19, 2010 12:02 PM EDT reply actions

With how ridiculous this has been, even if I see reported numbers on the contract, I won’t believe anything until I see the press conference.

But it does appear to be true. I think this is good for the Devils, it’ll help their attendance and excitement in their team.

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Per TSN.ca, Kovy signed with the Devils, presser tomorrow. Now, maybe something will break free, although if Gags is going to the Kings, I don’t want Williams, I want draft picks…and possibly Bernier

by Pocono Flyers Fan on Jul 19, 2010 12:12 PM EDT reply actions

damn … i was 10 minutes too early

by ic0n67 on Jul 19, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Ek says Williams, so I think you can feel safe it won’t be Williams.

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions

This is fantastic. I was having trouble properly hating Zach Parise, American Hero.

by Snevik on Jul 19, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions

does Jersey really count as america? (sorry Travis haha)

Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird

Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it

by JpH89 on Jul 19, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions

an armpit is still a part of the body … so yes

by ic0n67 on Jul 19, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Assuming the 12-year, $101 that was reject is the minimum amount we are looking at … The Devils are now 4M over the cap with two more players to sign

by ic0n67 on Jul 19, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

EK said that “There was an 80% chance that Kovy will sign with the kings tomorrow” last night, Im not worried that we’ll trade Gagne for Williams. besides, that wouldnt help our Cap, as we’d still be over.

Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird

Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it

by JpH89 on Jul 19, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

that would be the worst trade on the planet. it wouldn’t help the cap and would fill our gaping hole in net. Now if williams was part of deal that also included one of their goalies that had someone else going back to LA (hartnell) then maybe, but Gagne for Williams straightup is terrible

by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Personally, I’m glad he signed with the Dev’s. His defense is worse than Zherdev’s is purported to be, and he’s not a “team” player

by Pocono Flyers Fan on Jul 19, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions

I’m glad too because his contract will tie up the Devs’ cap space for years (unless he has become humble and reasonably-priced over the last week or so – not very likely).

#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)

by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 19, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions

They may have signed him to a cap friendly contract. You don’t know until the numbers come out. Also, look at it from a business perspective. There is rarely much excitement that revolves around Devils hockey outside of their diehards. Heck even when they won their cups, not many people cared. Now they get an electrifying player that should help build some buzz around their team finally.

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Hard to be a team player when you keep playing for crappy teams. Like I said before, Kovy on the Devils doesnt scare me, not because hes a bad player, but because they dont run a system that fits him. Look at the playoffs, there whole plan was “feed Kovy the puck, and get out of his way.” Same as when he was in ATL. Now, the Devils have two top players, just like the Flyers (Parise Kovy = Carter Richie) but they dont have any supporting cast to help them out. But again, the Devs have always been successful with low scoring teams and good D.

Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird

Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it

by JpH89 on Jul 19, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

New coach may mean new system. This may be a new look Devils team with Brodeur getting older, a new coach coming in, and the signing of an electrifying player.

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions

ok, then thats scares me very little too, because they still cant score worth a damn.

Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird

Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it

by JpH89 on Jul 19, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

You’ll have to wait and see I guess. Either way, they have an entire off season to get him integrated in to their system. The team has improved their skill level with this signing, you can’t argue that one.

Their biggest problem is no more Martin. Tallinder will be okay, but he isn’t Martin.

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions

the Devs have always been successful with low scoring teams and good D

True, but the NJ teams in the past had a younger and better Brodeur.

It’s a good signing for the Devs, but not one I’m fearing.

#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)

by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 19, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Like I just said above, if they really want to move to an offensive system, and this is their team, then they will be worse then they were last year.

Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird

Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it

by JpH89 on Jul 19, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed.

#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)

by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 19, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Why does everyone get tied up in Kovie’s D. No one signs a pure goal scorer for their D. It’s a trade off. Do you want a guy Koivu ($6.75 mil cap hit on renegotiated contract with Wild) who will get you 20-30 goals a year and is an all around player who is valuable on the PK and the PP (I know he is a center so it’s not the best comparison), or would you rather a guy that will net you 40-50 goals a year and will increase your jersey sales, ticket sales, and TV ratings?

People get too caught up on a players D. Don’t compare him to Zherdev either, b/c Zherdev hasn’t come close to what Kovie has done in the league yet.

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, as a fan I want the 40 – 50 goals, but I expect he’d be no worse than a +20 with 40 goals

by Pocono Flyers Fan on Jul 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions

This more so comes from people constantly complaining about a players defense or taking away a players value b/c they don’t excel defensively. I wasn’t really trying to single you out, it’s just been a common theme with all the Kovie talk, and the Zherdev signing. If he is a first line guy, you want him to score first. I understand in an ideal world, a player would excel at everything, but that just isn’t the case. You first line’s job is to score. Kovie will be on the first line, he’ll score.

Either way, I’m interested to see what system will be in place in jersey next year, and how they work on getting Kovie involved.

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Well in hockey you are expected to work an a cohesive unit on the ice. Kovalchuk doesn’t really play in a system well even a run and gun one honestly. There is a defensive liability there when someone doesn’t put forth the effort to come into their own zone and keep their assignment. It should be taken into consideration when you really are looking to include a guy like him … but it is what it is and people probably shouldn’t harp on it as much as they do.

by ic0n67 on Jul 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I had no idea hockey was a team sport. Where I play we just throw the puck to the guy that played at Dartmouth, and let him go score. Crap, i thought the NHL was just like men’s league.

Okay, I’ll turn the sarcasm off. Obviously I understand how the game is played. But when you talk about the pure goal scorers in the league right now, especially at the wing position, I can’t think of any that stand out as two way players. Heatley may fit systems better, or he could just fit in well with lines that don’t play much D and not be out of place b/c he doesn’t have the speed Ovie and Kovie have. The guy is a game changer, he just is. We’ll have to wait and see how he fits in next year in NJ. Everyone here can keep saying he won’t fit, but until the season plays out, it’s just speculation.

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

you realize I wasn’t saying you were wrong right?

by ic0n67 on Jul 19, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I do..I just felt like expanding

by DLJr on Jul 19, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions

I hope Gagne dose not have a new iphone I bet he is getting a lot of phone calls right now.

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 12:20 PM EDT reply actions

Heck even when they won their cups, not many people cared.

Which is why they held their Stanley Cup parades in a parking lot

by Pocono Flyers Fan on Jul 19, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions

Just imagine next time they win … Now they have to be afraid of someone holding up the parade caravan and stealing the cup. It will end up in a pawn shot in Newark in an hour.

by ic0n67 on Jul 19, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions