Simon Gagne Traded to Tampa Bay
by Ben Rothenberg on Jul 19, 2010 2:04 PM EDT
in News
Email
PrintSo, was it everything you were hoping it to be? The Flyers have traded their longest-tenured player and fan favorite to Steve Yzerman's Lightning for Matt Walker and a 4th round pick.
Not exactly Jonathan Bernier or Dustin Tokarski or Carter Ashton or Matt Lashoff, but Matt Walker is 30 years old and on his fourth NHL team in 4 years! That's a win, right?
Oh, did we mention Walker is signed for three more years at a $1.7 mil cap hit?
Look, everyone should have known that Simon Gagne wasn't going to bring a hefty return back to the Flyers. GM Paul Holmgren put the team in a situation where the entire league knew he had to trade somebody. He chose Gagne, who had to approve the trade. Suddenly, the teams that could bid on picking up the Flyers scraps for cheap has now dwindled. But you have to think teams would have given up a lot more than Matt Walker and a fourth-round pick just two weeks ago.
Now the question is: why did the Flyers acquire Walker? He is now their 8th defenseman costing more than their 6th and 7th. Is Oskars Bartulis going back to Adirondack? Why pick up the $1.7 million salary, effectively dumping Gagne's $5.25 million hit to only give the team ~$1 million in cap space?
Maybe Walker gets waived, giving the team roughing ~$2.7 million in cap space, but then why acquire Walker in the first place? If Yzerman wouldn't give up a 4th round pick without making Holmgren take Walker, can this even be considered a win?
Expect to hear lots of Marty Turco rumors for awhile.
1190 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Where did you hear this? Not sayin i don’t believe ya, just curious?
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
I will say it one more time…for as much as he is wrong, when he throws out an e5, there is usually some validity to it
no point haha
eklund is so bashed that he’s become… gasp… underrated. For his e5 stuff, anyways.
It’s been all over twitter from multiple people.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 19, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I figured. I don’t twitter or tweet or whatever it is called. Sadly this is becoming necessary for following sports news.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 19, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Ricky Watters son, “Rick-me” was indeed a part of the deal.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 19, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I had a feeling it would happen today, but 2 hours?? I was expecting something around 4 or so…. but time to start the mourning.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
*holding breath extremely deeply*
please be a good return please be a good return
From @BOLTPROSPECTUS
RT @DNFlyers: Two of the possible names I’m hearing with Tampa Bay are Dana Tyrell and Ty Wishart. Stay tuned. We’ve got something cooking.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
Wishart is a good pick up…I think. But I agree for the most part…not super happy with the reported return. But it does give the system some much needed talent.
http://twitter.com/NHLSourcesSay
lots of different names being thrown around
Tokarski (goalie prospect), Mike Smith, Tyrell, and Wishart
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:12 PM EDT reply actions
Done Deal. Seravalli gets confirmation from Flyers sources:
RT @DNFlyers: Flyers source confirms Simon Gagne has indeed been traded to Tampa Bay. Waiting to hear on the return.
"Can Geico really save you 15% or more on your car insurance? Is Mike Green really a forward in defenseman's clothing"
so what’s the return damnit…waits anxiously
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope another enforcer……….
by save a whale eat penguins on Jul 19, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
as long as its a enforcer who plays centre
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
What…
the…
#$%%*$(#$&%($&%(#&%(%#!P(#(%!P(%&$(P%&$P(%&#P$(!UE( NGU#(FN($URP
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on Jul 19, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoops, something went wrong with where this was replied to.
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on Jul 19, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And when you get sick of the Tampa replays
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Would have preferred
He go west, young man. Not so excited about him playing for the stupid Lightning. No offense, Katchis.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Im glad the South East division is going to be a little tougher for each other.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
probably, so Smith + the previous mentioned prospects (not sure on Tokarski)
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Every time I’ve seen Smith, he’s played worse than Boucher. And his contract is worse than Leighton’s. Any hope we just waive him?
Turco is much, much better than Mike Smith.
You’re a grown man. Your name is Michael Smith, for fucksake.
Turco is over the hill … he is done … the last 2 years have proven he doesn’t have the stones for a starters job anymore.
LeCavier (sorry for the spelling) It wouldnt suprise me for that to happen, just to keep us in cap hell
by save a whale eat penguins on Jul 19, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions
No matter what the return is ...
I have bad feelings about this trade. I just feel that this could have been avoided.
Well, the stupid cap
Was designed to hurt teams like the Flyers. I guess it’s only fitting.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
But it could have been avoided.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Not by the Flyers, apparently.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Yes it could have been avoided by proper cap management……..
by save a whale eat penguins on Jul 19, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I am with you on Shelley…O’Donnell for 1M to our #6 and help mature the young guys was a good deal for 1 year. Meszaros is a wash, we were looking for a #5, we tried to get Hamhuis for the same money and couldn’t. Meszaros struggled a bit to be Tampa’s #3, I think he will do quite nicely as our #5 (paired with O’Donnell)…
Really wish they could have traded him OUT of the conference if he had to go…
Goodbye Gags, you will be missed by all of us that bleed Black and Orange. Thank You for all the great years and the memories we will hold on to, best of Luck to you in Tampa…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
The only bonus to this is every player we trade to Tampa comes back to orange and black at some point.
Phantoms probably just got better and maybe we got guys to fill in for the future on the flyers
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope it’s only 1 year Gagne is in Tampa then he’ll come back….. crosses fingers and hopes for best
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
"Can Geico really save you 15% or more on your car insurance? Is Mike Green really a forward in defenseman's clothing"
by FlyerGuy18 on Jul 19, 2010 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 30 recs
This shall be green
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I love that picture. Make me think of the playoffs especially with the Boston series… I am starting to miss him already tears
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
so how about if it was Smith, Tokarski, Tyrell, and Wishart. those are 3 of top 5 tb prospects and rumored coming here
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
do we really need anymore goalie prospects?
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Well if it is a stud prospect yes, because right now we have nothing but mid level guys.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 19, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
throw shit at the wall and maybe one of them will stick
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i like tokarski b/c of his name but mike smith, really? please no. maybe he and leighton will duke it out for being the most mediocre goalies in the league.
Yes, and if we keep Smith and waive Boosh that is NUTS since not only is Boosh as good (or better) than Smith he is cheaper.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
I’d rather the prospects be Panik, Wishart, and Mihalik. Panik fills a weak spot in the depth chart, and I’d rather have a boom/bust D prospect than yet another G prospect when we have Backlund, Riopel, Eriksson, and Bob in the wings.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
A panic trade by Homer? Learning at the feet of RAJ????
For those of you non-Phils fans, this is not a compliment.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
i dunno why homer would have to panic as there were multiple suitors and the biggest roadblock (kovy) was out of the way
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Were there multiple suitors? This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS
If LA said no (rejecting the rebound romance), maybe this was their best option
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
we heard rumors of LA, Toronto, and Tampa..La lost out on Kovy so they were defintely in
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Rumors from who? Writers like me and Sam Carchidi wondering aloud if their team should go get him. I didn’t hear a single rumor outside of L.A. and Tampa that TEAMS were interested.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's a panic trade
If he planned to do it all along, which appears to be the case. I don’t like the trade personally, but I don’t think it’s a panic move.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Its not a panic trade.
May not like it, but its not a panic trade
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
As much as RAJ blows…he absolutely does not make panic moves.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
That’s because he no longer has the pieces to make a panic move. What’s he going to do, trade Greg Dobbs? I guess he could trade Jayson Werth or Dom Brown, but that’s about it.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
No, RAJ’s problem is that he tries to make the “I’m outsmarting everyone else” maverick move. The impetus behind trading Lee was a good one, he just didn’t get the best deal reportedly available. He outsmarted himself.
There’s lots of talent in the low minors he can trade, but he’d have to give up more of it relative to trading blue-chippers like Brown, who is completely off-limits.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Yeah. I get the same impression. I don’t think he’s as smart as he thinks. Or, at the very least, he thinks other GMs are dumber than they really are.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
And even in the Lee trade, he got SOME prospects…and did not take back a middle reliever salary (a la Homer).
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Yes, and the Lee prospects aren’t really as bad as they are being made out to be. They are better than what we gave up to get him in Donald, Marson, and Knapp (Knapp’s really the best of the bunch, but he’s young and full of inury concerns because he’s a flamethrower).
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Agreed….but just saying, for all the complaining the Phils fans have made about the Lee trade, in many ways this is WORSE
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Oh, absolutely. But I’ve been doing battle with those stupid Phillies fans for months. Not that it’s his fault, but the mere mention of the words “Cliff Lee” send me into a blind rage. Had to hear this morning how we never should have traded for Halladay (and his below market/team friendly contract) and should have just kept Lee (and watched him walk to the Yankees in the offseason for his 10 year, elevently billion dollar contract and two lousy sandwich picks which wouldn’t be able to help the team for maybe 5 years). Because, you know, Cliff Lee is the better pitcher. F me.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Don’t even threaten that. I’m dreading RAJ trading Werth and calling Dom up just in time for his clock to start.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Only way they trade Werth is if we are calling it a season. Offense is the issue with this team, so it makes no sense to trade Werth, even if he is sucking the big one right now offensively.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I know this should go in the thread below this but this thread will most certainly bury anything below it…but ESPN is reporting that Kovalsuck signed for 17 years and $150 mil? thats hysterical…
As for the trade…its been a foregone conclusion for weeks so there isnt much more to say on it. Its a shame taht one of the most beloved Flyers (and Philadelphia athletes) had to be the odd man out due to Holmgren’s belief that the cap doesn’t apply to him. Should have traded Carter.
This trade does put huge pressure on Carter, atleast from the fans. If he doesnt have a bounce back year and produce superstar like stats then everyone will be upset that Gagne and not Carter was the salary dump victim
Its a mistake
ESPN_Burnside
sorry. not quite that much. kovalchuk will have made in excess of 150 million by the time this deal is done including his time in atlanta.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
As for the Flyers, It want a popular move, but its not a bad move
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s my question: does this mean Gagne’s waived his NTC or do we not know that yet?
If he waives it, I think it’s pretty certain he holds no ill will toward the Flyers, because would you willingly waive your NTC to go to Tampa Bay? After years of playing in front of, you know, big crowds who actually care about hockey?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
It a trade has been made than in fact he did waive it
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at Tampa’s top-6. Look at their GM. He’s going to an organization that is now instantly a contender. With really good, young talent.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
IF THIS INVOLVES SMITH
Since we PASSED ON ELLIS this is BEYOND STUPID (caps intended).
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
I know that, but the fans still won’t come. Look at the Rays. Meh. I’m bitter.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Yeah, that’s fair. I just think he cares about more than how many people show up.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I just think it will be a shock to play in front of crickets every night, but I hear you. The team is talented and perhaps they will give the Caps a run for their money, but I just don’t like the Lightning and never will. Really wish he’d been picked up by a Western Conf team.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
A contender for the playoffs? They are moving in the right direction but far, far away from anything substantial.
Really? Check back in February.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll make a gentleman’s bet on this, just for accountability sake. Where are you imagining they’ll be? Within earshot of the division lead? Ahead of the Flyers?
I view Tampa as I view Toronto: people keep pegging them for outside dark horse, and rarely do they perform anywhere near expectations.
I think they’ll rival Ottawa from this past year. Not saying they’ll finish 5th in the conference, but I think they’ll make a run, get people talking about them, saying they can’t keep it up, and either slowly drop out of the playoffs or hang on to a 7-8 seed.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok. I agree with you, that they could nab a playoff spot. I’m saying they aren’t a contender for, you know, the Stanley Cup.
oh, haha. No. I’m not saying they’re a contender for the Cup either. Sorry, unclear on my part.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve got them tagged as a 6-10 team, myself. 6 if everything goes perfectly, 10 if they don’t mesh well, probably either 8 or 9.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
My newest Flyer fan in the house, ( my daughter ) is crying upstairs now….
by save a whale eat penguins on Jul 19, 2010 2:30 PM EDT reply actions
Im and 20 year old man and im crying
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
by JpH89 on Jul 19, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
except i'm a 20 year old guy rather than man
gimme a few more years before i have to be an adult please
Apparently several since they are unwilling or unable to sign a starter.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I only have one question at the moment: how many cot damn backup goalies does one team need? Apparently the answer is four.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
so we have 10 #2s and 0 # 1s…yay homer. lol
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
And how many starting goalies does one team need? Apparently none.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not true
We didnt win the cup
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeff Carter
Better score 60 fucking goals and have 100 pts next year
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
1. Carter is the one who should have been traded. We could have gotten more for him, he’s a chemistry killer, he NEEDS to play center, he’s the odd man out, he goes invisible come playoff time…I don’t care that he scored 40 goals 2 years ago. After next year he will probably make 7 million a year and Gags most likely would have given the hometown discount to stay. Carter, you better have a career year because you’re a cancer to this team in the eyes of many Flyers fans. Homer, you suck.
Done deal: defenseman Matt Walker and a 4th round pick come back for Simon Gagne.
What the fuck?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
we were never going to get that
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Did people really expect Gagne to bring back Quick/Simmonds??? People would throw out why Gagne should be traded over Carter, then expect other team’s to ignore that and act like they were trading for Carter.
I’m afraid Blueshirt Banter was right: Philly fans severely overvalued their player and the position their GM was in.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
be that as it may and note I am one who never though they would get anything back from LA … Matt Walker and a 4th proves that not only to Philly fans overvalues that their GM undervalues …
If you want to be kind and say “undervalues”, go ahead. He just got fleeced.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I was hoping for at least one prospect – I’d rather have a guy with potential (but who may not pan out) who can stay in the minors for another year or two over an aging defenseman when we’re already excessively deep at that position.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Certainly. But this is GMPH we’re talking about.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I been saying this for weeks Geoff. Gagne isn’t the legend killer people put him out to be
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 19, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
But surely worth more than a fourth round pick and whoever Matt Walker is?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Right. People were valuing Gagne in terms of what WE thought he was worth, including sentiment. But for all the reasons people wanted him traded instead of Carter, they ignored the fact that other GMs would think the same.
I’d much rather Gagne on my team than Zherdev, Carcillo, and Matt Walker. But everyone convinced themselves trading Gagne was okay because the team would get Bernier/Parse, which is just loony.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually no he is not
We love him but he is not worth much more than that
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
A solid two-way player that nets 0.8 PPG for his career, and hasn’t been below 0.69 since the lockout? I understand the concern over injuries, but if he’s only worth a fourth rounder, Briere’s worth a sixth-rounder at best.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Not with an overpaid cap hit
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
We could both agree on that. That being said, at 5+ million cap hit and previous concussions, I’m not sure that is worth much more than a bag of pucks, because he might hurt your team more than he helps
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 19, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Why? If he has another concussion, put him on LTIR and you get his cap hit back. That doesn’t hurt the team.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Ehh. It hurts the team slightly because of all the restrictions that come with a player on LTIR… but they’re relatively minimal compared to the alternative.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Slightly. But it’s not like they are hampered by him having a concussion in the last year of his deal. Worst case, he has a concussion and has to go on LTIR. The team can replace him. Again, worst-case for Tampa, he returns after the trade deadline. They have $16 million in cap space AFTER trading for Gagne. They can bring him back no problem.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
And its the groin, then he is on again,…no off again and if he stayed here we would always have to keep room for him
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Tampa will have a problem “keeping room” for him, seeing as how they have $16 million in cap space with 8 forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goalies already under contract. They have their top-6 forwards already, so they really only need 4 Ian Laperriere’s. Bam, they have, at worst, $8 million in cap space.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
After this deal, they have $15.3 million in cap space with 9 forwards, 7 defensemen, and both goalies. They only need to fill out a single line, and it’s not like nobody’s available. Heck, Gagne was helpful in making sure they met the floor.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
CapGeek disagrees…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I was counting James Wright as a given, and Adam Hall instead of Blair Jones.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Oh, well I have no idea who those two are, so… I’ll just go with you.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You keep his talent, take the risk, and hopefully you end up in the positive.
Or you dump him, take what you can, and fill his position while you still have the time in the off-season
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 19, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
This is equivalent to a "waiver deal"
Matt Walker is a $1.7 D-man!!!!!!!
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
This feels like an NBA deal. I seriously hate the cap.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Does blaming the cap make you feel better?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, yes it does. Right now it does.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Okay. As long as it’s part of the grieving process, that’s fine. Just know that in a few days, you’ll reconsider.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don’t like salary caps of any kind, so that won’t change for me. However, I have always felt that Holmgren was bad in this area, so that’s nothing surprising to me.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Really? You don’t like salary caps?
That’s a whole other discussion, but there would be no NHL without one.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s just sad (that the NHL can’t exist without one). I never want to see one instituted in baseball, that’s for sure, even if I hate the Yankees and they buy their championships.
And, why, pray tell, does the cap have to be so fracking complicated in hockey that so many GM’s can’t navigate it? Football seems to work better. Just sayin’.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I think a luxury tax would work well in the NHL. I dunno. I think the salary cap as it is works well in the NHL (especially when you look at the NBA salary cap). Not the CBA’s fault Paul Holmgren never read it.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
The baseball lockout happened because of a salary cap and the players won … you won’t see it happening in baseball I’d think ever.
Not as long as the Yankees are a team.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The NHL salary cap (and NHL contracts in general) are actually pretty simple. GMPH can’t navigate it because I’m not even sure he’s ever read it (Pronger incident, for one).
I can understand a PHI or NYR or MON or TOR fan hating the salary cap because those are the few teams that are actually held back by it. But objectively it’s absolutely necessary for the NHL. If the NHL ever devolves to something that even remotely approximates the MLB I’ll be despondent. I don’t think I could quit watching, so I’d just loathe myself like an addict looking for a fix.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
The Pronger incident was one of his examples of strong cap navigation.
I agree with you, as far as the cap’s necessity. However, I’m of the opinion that part of the reason it is essential is because of over-expansion. I prefer, selfishly, contraction to capping, but now we are dealing in fantasy.
Signing Pronger to a 35+ deal and thinking you got around the 35+ clause is an example of not reading the CBA. Whatever you think of the Pronger trade and extension, thinking he was signing a non-35+ contract was horrible on his part. At least know the consequences of your contracts.
Contraction is silly. There are more than enough quality NHL players to field 30 teams, and I think we could probably go to 32 teams. Where the NHL is facing a shortage is in quality ownership and arena deals. You want contraction? Have fun watching elite talent flee to Europe.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
I don’t think contraction is possible. That was just a flight of fancy. But to counter it by saying there’s a surplus of NHL-quality talent is silly. NHL-quality is whatever the league is able to roster. If there was a contraction, that caliber would just have a different meaning.
Are we sure Homer thought he was getting around the 35+ contract? Because that contract makes sense to me either way.
Anyway, I’m not really arguing with you. The league is structured fine enough as it is right now.
I guess you have a point about what “NHL caliber” means but I have no interest in going back to the O-6 days. The quality of the game is higher than it has ever been, and there are undoubtedly guys that could be playing in the NHL but can’t find guys to pay them. Two more NHL teams means that Nabokov may still be in the NHL, as well as guys like Radulov and Hudler and probably some young studs that got forced into staying in the CHL (Pietrangelo comes to mind).
I guess I’ll defer to the experts here, but I remember reading that Holmgren thought the Pronger deal wasn’t 35+ and then the league came out and said it was. Then there was some backpedaling about exactly what Holmgren though. My opinion is that the evidence is in the contract. No way Pronger agrees to play for 750K so I assume there was at least an implicit understanding that Pronger would retire before that and PHI probably assumed his cap hit would disappear too.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Right, but the cap is the reason that Nabokov left, not a dearth of teams. He would have taken less to stay here, just as Zherdev did; the same would be true if the NHL pool was narrowed by contraction. Theoretically, at least, it shouldn’t be a huge difference, in terms of who is fleeing.
You might be right about the Pronger contract. Except I think players understand how front loading works, and I’m sure any player would rather get all his money now and invest, rather than wait to get the same amount of money later.
Well if there were two more teams needing goalies, that’s 4 goalie spots at least, and almost 120 million more in salary, plus whatever revenue effects the new teams have. If the team is in Southern Ontario it’s immediately a financial flagship and could boost the revenue, and thus the cap. If the team is in a non-traditional market it could depress the cap a bit, but it would still result in ~120 million more of player salary available. That could be the difference in keeping Nabokov and some of the other exiles in the NHL.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Nothing more than a salary dump unless there’s another deal to follow this one. And, even then, I can’t imagine the Flyers will be better after trading Gagne than they were before.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHA one of my jokes came true
Homer: “Don’t we have a fine defense now?”
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Matt Walker is a thirty year old defenseman who played 66 games last year with Tampa. I’d like to think Yzerman is a genius but I think Homer’s just an idiot.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Apparently, a team needs eight defensemen, too. Unless Homer plans to move Carle next.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Three years left on a deal with a $1.7 million cap hit. Fuck our lives.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Homer got fleeced twice by Yzerman (a rookie gm)
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Ehh. He’s been in the Detroit front office for a few years. He’s not really a rookie GM.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
he’s going to the minors, calm down
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 19, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You do realize that if Walker hits the minors, then Philly got nothing but a fourth round pick for Gagne? One fourth rounder (and fourth rounders work out to actual NHL careers, what, maybe 20% of the time? If you’re lucky?) for one of the Flyers’ best scorers last year. Honestly I’d say that’s an even worse situation than an overvalued defenseman and a fourth pick. Maybe it’s just me.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I would bet that 20% of first rounders actually make a career in the NHL…4th rounders…probably in the single digits in terms of %.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
The article I linked to below said 63% of first round picks have played at least 200 NHL games. Third round and higher had a 12% success rate.
Flyers: 71.4% 1st rounders, N/A% 2nd rounders, and 5.9% 3rd and higher for a total of 13.8% success, well below the league average of 16.2%, good for 25th in the NHL.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
And what is the timespan of those analyses? The prospect pool is deeper now than it’s ever been and I think in 5-10 years we’ll look back and see well over 50% success rate on first round picks.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
1999-2005
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
And he saw 63% success rate on first round picks, which I consider “well over 50%”.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. I know that most of the studies I saw had the historical first round success rate at about 50%. I don’t think we are at the NFL level yet, but I think it’s getting there. Soon it will reach the point where missing on a first round pick will be a huge gaffe and the sort of thing that really hurts an organization.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Agreed. Right now, only a miss in the top-15 is egregious.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Playing 200 games in the NHL doesn’t exactly make you good, I mean it does, it’s the NHL but there are plenty of guys who absolutely blow that have 200 games of NHL experience, that’s about 2.5 years in the NHL. Doesn’t mean they are worth the paper their checks are printed on.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
No, but Derek explains it in the article:
The number is arbitrary, but 200 games is four seasons of fifty games in the NHL, which is certainly an NHL career. Though the number seems low for first round picks, to do any sort of analysis, eventually we’ll have to draw an arbitrary line to measure a career player.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I read a really great article on this but can’t find it. Instead, I found this from Derek Zona (who I think wrote the one I’m looking for):
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/6/14/1513198/nhl-draft-success-1999-2005
Of note:
One other note of curiosity – the Flyers had zero second-round picks through these seven years [1999-2005]. No, it’s not that they failed to get a career player from the second round, they didn’t choose in the second round for seven years. Bobby Clarke must’ve had something against the number two.
The Flyers had four 2nd-round picks from 06-07, but don’t have another 2nd rounder until 2013 at the earliest. So, that’s 15 years, 13 of them without a second-round pick.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait what
Holy christ…I take back what I said about Smith and the prospects…give me give me give me….ahhhhhhhhhh
seriously…wtf homer. I could take goalie and prospects but 30 yr defensemen and pick. wtf
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Wtf we went from their top prospects to that? WTF homer? wtf? you got fleeced
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
WOW
so… i guess we’re still waiting on some shoes to drop, eh? this math is one big does-not-compute.
7 defensemen, and the worst is o’donnell or walker? Huh?
Who the hell is Matt Walker (I’m sure I’ll see his profile as I go down… but I am not happy with this return).
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
i’d rather the prospects that were rumored. wtf homer
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too… seriously this is a shitty return. I’m sure if he’d trade Cote he’d get the same. Yzerman is doing very well as a GM and unfortunately Homer got beat by him twice.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
#Flyers were holding onto hope they could get Bernier from the Kings, but Gagne is packing for Tampa.
Thanks Carchidi. I bet the Flyers were also holding onto hope they could get Crosby.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
we went from bernier to this shit. fuck that
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think they were going to get Bernier for just Gagne, LA probably wanted something else.
You ain't a has-been, if you never was.
haha, oh Sam.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And you all scoffed at my Sauer and a 3rd round pick
:)
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
plz, we’ll trade him to the Rags if it means we get better than this shit
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
well thats why I was saying on Thursday
that you guys weren’t gonna get what you thought you would.
At least with a Rangers prospect you wouldn’t take a cap hit.
Reagrdless I woulda went with my offer lol
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, I would have went with… a whole other GM.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Still
anything woulda been better than this
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 19, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
A swift kick to the balls would have been only marginally worse.
As someone who knew we weren’t getting much in return, but still didn’t see THIS coming, I personally apologize. Worse case scenario, I imagined a second rounder.
All the people that were saying the Geoff and I were wrong and didn't have insider info, and that Homer would know what he is doing
Please shut up.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
haha, thanks Bud.
I’m laughing because I feel vindicated.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
In fairness I think Homer “knew” what he was doing, he just had a horrible plan that was executed in an even worse fashion.
Wrong
He had no plan.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Haha, really I find it more humorous to imagine him having this ridiculously confusing flow chart on a board with all his different plans labeled A to 147Bii-XI.
Its a salary dump trade. Anyone who thought Gagne would get us anything else is blind with rage over losing him
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
my plan was better than this shit. what happened to the prospect deal? I’ve taken that but this shit. gtfo
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I’m not saying the guy was unconscious or under a spell the whole time, but he has no idea what he’s doing.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No I know. I was just making a joke. You know me by now and you should know I’ve been with you on the Homer front.
haha, I know. I just wanted to throw out the possibilities that Homer has been under Yzerman’s spell for 3 weeks.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, I never said you were wrong. I never even thought you were. But you gotta realize, posting shit like this makes you look like a gigantic toolbag.
by BroadStreetBully on Jul 19, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we can swap players with the Lightning ...
… how about GMs?
Why not, maybe that was part of the deal and the terms weren’t disclosed….. yeah I’m reaching for anything that will make me feel better…. so far nothing will unless I see Gagne back in a Flyers uniform next year.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
with the 1.7 million coming in from Walker, he cant sign Turco at league minamum and be under the cap.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
He’d better not be keeping Walker or putting him in the minors…. seriously we don’t need him as our 7th D man…. now if he is planning on dealing one of our D-men I guess it would be ok…. but he is not an improvement as far as I know.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, with this debacle of a trade, we now appear to be approx 780k under the cap, MAYBE enough to sign Powe, but that’s about it…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
thats before cutting Cote and or Boosh
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed, before cutting Cote’s 500k and Boosh’s 925k from the payroll, this deal has us about 780k under the cap (according to CapGeeks figures)…final should be about 2.2M…to sign Powe and…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Either Turco or another defenseman.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Note to Bobby Clarke: Go punch homer in the face for me
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
They gave Bobby Clarke many, many years of failure before they fired him. Sorry, I don’t see this happening any time soon.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Hell they should hire one of us people who are good with the cap to stop him… then we’d not have gotten these overpriced contracts.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Clarke didn’t get fired the second time around… he “stepped down” because his heart wasn’t in it anymore.
The first time around (1990) he did get fired, and rightly so. He had a huge disagreement with Jay Snider as to how the team should rebuild. Clarkie wanted to build through the draft, while Jay wanted to make trades and sign free agents. I agree with what Clarkie wanted to do, except back then he was shitty at drafting and only marginally better at making trades.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
?
can walker be sent to the minors to clear cap space???
by SkookFlyerfan on Jul 19, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Seravalli says on Twitter that’s what he expects them to do. Which means the Flyers traded Gagne for a fourth round pick.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
What a steal for Yzerman. Hope he burns in hell
by SkookFlyerfan on Jul 19, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
wow, pathetic move on homer’s part. smith+ prospects would’ve been better
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
never was going to happen with Gagnes injuries
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
My money is on Gagne coming back next year at a hometown discount.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I honestly felt that way until I heard Simon saying that he did not want to waive his no-trade clause, and that the organization asked him like three times before he finally took the hint.
Consider his bridges back here burned for good.
Fucking Holmgren.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
That’d be perfect – he gets a one year vacation in Florida, gets a tan, plays with Lecavalier and St. Louis, then returns invigorated and cheaper. Nice dream – sometimes they do come true.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
I’ll sign up for that dream too. Is there still room?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 19, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
sure, its easy to make the koolaid
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Mmmmm…dream koolaid is the best…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 20, 2010 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions
After homer trades a future 2nd rounder for the exclusive negotiating rights.
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook
I would’ve preferred junk-level prospects over this. Getting $1.7mil back completely nullifies any benefit of letting Gagne go.
but it puts us under the cap… that’s all Homer wanted to do? right??
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
then trade for picks prospects, dont take back a contract. especially a defensemen
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I know that’s what he should have done. I should have put /sarcasm on my post, because I am pretty much saying if that was the deal Homer is an idiot.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
urgh... still waiting for falling shoes...
this is not even close to the end… a bunch more moves are going to be made, for damn sure, but this one in a vacuum is one of the worst I’ve seen.
That said… still reserving judgment until the other shoes fall.
so now we get to see Carle traded out of town? if that happens I will cry
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
all aboard the "fire Homer express"
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
by JpH89 on Jul 19, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm on board! Get me "business class"
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
on the Homer express
there is no buisness class.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
by JpH89 on Jul 19, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who’s backing up Leights if we dump Boosh?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 19, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope
Backlund cap hit = Boosh’s
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
If we have another D-Man, we won’t need a goalie, or what if we have a D-man who also plays goalie . . . .
by SkookFlyerfan on Jul 19, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
He does everything else so why not? Why don’t we just get some huge person that’s larger than the net and tie them to the goal so nothing can go through (I feel i’ve seen that before on some parody show like Robot Chicken or something online, that should be what we do now)
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
reminds me of the Mike Richter commercial from years ago when he was eating tons of pizza, lol
by SkookFlyerfan on Jul 19, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
that may be what I saw, lol. I am not 100% sure what I did see that was that, I just had an image with some huge guy tied to a goal who covered up the whole opening, it could have been that, but the idea is what counts and it’s funny.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Sean O’Donnell.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
dump boosh, walker, cote and we have what left?
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
close to 3.8M
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
b/c homer is frigging moron. we have no use for walker whatsoever
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
to dump salary
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank CapGeek.com
but here’s what the roster looks like with Walker being waived:
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m) / James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)
Ian Laperriere ($1.166m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m)
Claude Giroux ($0.821m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m)
Riley Cote ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Sean O’Donnell ($1.300m)
GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) /Brian Boucher ($0.925m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,584,763; BONUSES: $937,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,752,737
I don't think so. There would be buyout $$$ for Walker. wouldn't there be?
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
God I hope not. Just waive him, and if he clears, outright waive him and make him a free agent.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Not if you just demote him to the minors.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think so, they’d just stick him in the minors for the year and pay him his contract and hopefully NEVER pull another randy jones.
Don’t even mention that. I know that if somebody gets injured he will Randy Jones it again…. even if he is a crappy defenseman I’m sure one team will do it just to fuck with our cap…
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
New T-Shirt Idea
Picture of Holmgren or some reference to Homer
“I was told there would be no math.”
Sorry, too soon? I have to laugh to keep from getting really mad.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
by doubleh on Jul 19, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
That sounds funny… get it done!!
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
What we need is a psychotic computer to monitor Homer like the Hal900 in 2001:A Space Odyssey…
“I’m sorry Paul, but I can’t let you do that”
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
by Fezzlekway on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
yes we do!!! Rec’d because of a reference to one of the best movies!!!
I can just imagine that, and I don’t think Homer would be able to shut down Hal
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
2010: A Salary Cap Odyssey
Starring the Clarke9001…LOL!
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Lol, that’s too funny. I hope Clarke is going to send Homer out to fix the A-35 unit and while he’s out lock him out and fix the problems he created.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol yeah I like the reference, I wonder if anybody else gets it… but I hope that that does happen.
Also I made a typo, the AE-35 unit.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
things we could have done to keep Gagne
Not sign Shelly, Carcillo, and zherdov, not given Coburn 3.2 million, or not trading for Meszaros. pick any of the three and we have still have Gagne
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
All things I would have done… why… why???
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
you forgot not giving him such a large salary in the 1st place
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
From a cap perspective the trade was WORSE than waiving Gagne
Though I was aghast at the idea of waving Simon, from a cap hit perspective this is worse since we have to carry Walker, or buy him out as a multi-year player I believe.
So here is the awful part…if we DID buy out Walker, the salary amount (not cap hit) is EQUAL to Gagne’s.
Nice going, Stevie Y.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Again, I just waive Walker. Then outright waive him like Tampa did with Krajicek. Team is absolved of the cap hit and the player is a free agent.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Yeah, saw your post before I posted this.
BUT I am still correct about the salary. Equal.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
then why trade for him? Why not just take the 4th rounder?
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
You and me, same page.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
b/c Homer was in bad position and Stevie Y made him his bitch
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
and toronto was interested too. cries
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Then WHY include him in the trade?!?!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
“Well, see, I was originally getting the combo meal. Then I decided I should get the kids meal instead — Stevie told me it came with a free defenseman!”
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Because TB clears that salary off their books. I assume that was the only way Stevie Y would agree to it.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s my guess as well. i’d rather we traded Gagne for williams at this point
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you go looking for another offer. You’re trading Gagne and you can’t even get a 4th round pick? You have to take their garbage to the curb too??
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously what was LA offering b/c it was probably better than this shit
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a clue, but you’d think they would be scrambling after losing out on Kovy two hours ago.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you take back Justin Williams?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Over this trade? Hell yeah.
But that trade only gets the team under the cap by swapping Gagne’s $5.25 for Williams’ $3.5. Lateral move.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m thinking that this is what they’ll do. They have no use for Walker, and Yzerman wanted to get him out of town.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Wait, you’re thinking?!
Stop that RIGHT NOW. There is no room for thinking in GMPH’s world.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Why did you adopt Japers’ GM[first initial][last initial] thing? (I guess it’s done at other places too, but that’s where I see it most) I don’t like it.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
How about all Flyers movements just happen in Homerworld? It’s like a mix of Waterworld and EuroDisney.
Homerworld
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I don’t feel like typing out his long ass name…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
All I can think is how upset will we be when Zherdev scores more goals than Gagne and Leighton and/or Turco win the jennings?
well unless Boosh and Cote are waived with Walker, we’re not getting Turco. and we have leighton starting. this is just fucked up right now
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Zherdev will score more the Gagne. I have already agreed to that when we signed him. But im more so mad that, had we waited to sign him, and were under the cap, Gagne would fetch, at minimum, a 2nd rounder.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Celebrity spokesperson
I could see Leights shilling for Hair Club in a few years, ala Jennings trophy winner, and Flyers footnote, Darren Jensen.
Can we let Zherdev and Meszaros play some games before we rip their signings? Gagne is a hero and a leader but we have plenty of leaders and he is a constant injury risk.
Do you think a 4th rd. pick for Gagne is a fair trade?
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really, I hoped he would bring back more, like one of these prospects being tossed around, but we don’t know what the market was for him.
Remember we were handicapped by Gagne’s list of teams, who knows how many were on it. What if it was just Tampa? I wouldn’t be mad at Simon for forcing us to take a lesser deal.
Me neither. But I’ve never been mad at Gagne.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Gagne said it was only Tampa.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
its not how bad the players are
I love both players, and we are ultimately a better team next year even without Gagne. But the who spectacle of this deal was asinine. If we were going to trade Gagne to TB, why not save the 2nd rounder and trade Gagne and a 4th straight up for Mez? Its not that im ripping the players, I love them, its just that Homer keeps getting hossed in trades. he doesnt think about the future, he make quick decisions and it just makes us look stupid.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Surely Gagne was worth more than this? I hope Homer is in negotiations to join Witness Protection after this. I am sure he can offer them a sweet deal like 5 draft picks, maybe Giroux too.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
It’s officially official. Just got a text message from the team.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
reply back and say fuck you homer.
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
+2… if I got a text from the team I would say just that as a reply
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not defending Homer. I’m saying we still have a great team, and our goalie situation isn’t final until all roster moves are in.
I am saying our team has gotten worse from where it was midnight on July 1 … thus the GM whose job it is the better the team has failed
Please explain this!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand the rage and anger,
We lost a fan favorite today and got nothing back but cap space
And to a die hard fan That Sucks!
However we picked up a great winger and some good D before todays loss
We are till better than we were July 2
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Improved Defensively. Lateral Offensively. Lateral in Goal (from end of last season). The problem is the moves he’s made given the market place in FA and what it has lead to…Gagne as a salary dump. Look at everything in a Vacuum, msot everything is ago. Look at the whole picture…there were several other plans out there that could have resulted in similar upgrades with out the need to downgrade elsewhere.
Yeah, the problem is there was room to improvement more, given our cap situation. We’re a better team than we were, but the improvement per dollar is so low.
so looking at our team next year….
we’re now even thinner on the wings. Assuming we don’t break up the Briere-Leino Hartnell line, the Richards line will either be something like:
Carcillo/Richards/Carter
Carcillo/Richards/Zherdev
Carcillo/Richards/Giroux
or some combination of those 5 players.
none of those combinations work. Carcillo is a nice player but no way is he a first line winger. Carter is too much of a bitch to play wing and be productive at it (even though his skill set makes him much better suited for the wing). and Zherdev doesnt believe in defense. Giroux can play wing but is better suited at center. and if you put Giroux up there then youve got your 5 mil a year “superstar whos too good to trade” Jeff Carter centering the 3rd line. bullshit. nevermind the goaltending situation…
One alternative missed
I’m guessing that they are thinking Carter-Richards-Zherdev or Giroux.
Not that I like that either.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
i don’t see Zherdev working well with ritchie
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t either… but I am guessing that is what they are thinking.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
yeah, or they break up the Briere line and put Briere back at wing…which doesn’t work either. basically we have 5 centers on our team (Richards, Carter, Briere, Giroux, Betts) and none of them are nearly as productive on the wing. like an above poster said…If Carter doesnt score 50 goals ill be furious
“@MurphysLaw74 I have a feeling there’s something else in the works. Burying Walker will give them space to sign.. oh, maybe a goalie?” via Sbaicker
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions
Turco. Woo.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
well we figured that signing Turco was coming but thought we weren’t get such a shitty trade. should’ve gotten our 2nd rounder back
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
ewww. Turco if he signs needs to be 2.5 million or less
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
He’ll probably go for 2M or less I think since nobody has expressed interest in him. He’ll be like “it’s us or nobody” and that we are a contender will get a good deal with him.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe Homer wants to sign Vesa Toskala! Oh boy!
by Giroux-ling for Cheese on Jul 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
geez louise wouldn’t that be special. i hear homer is working out a carter for huet deal with the blackhawks too.
Perhaps that is how Homer will spin it. “We really traded Simon for Turco and a 4th rd. pick, if you want to look at it that way.”
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
knowing Homer hes on the phone with Garth Snow discussing a Giroux+2 1st round picks for Rick Dipietro right now
if that happens
we all get to pee on you for prophesizing it
by PHIGHTINPHILS on Jul 19, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
More like Dwayne Roloson.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Me too.
My fucking hands are shaking. I mean, we all knew this was coming for a few weeks now. But we HAD to get something more in return than this shit. Fuck the goddamn salary cap. FUCK YOU GARY BETTMAN.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
i’ll see where all the chips lay at the end of the day… i’m sure they wouldn’t move gagne if they didn’t plan on replacing the production or upgrading the netminder.
remember
this isn’t the snyder sixers, this is the flyers – the team he actually cares about…
by PHIGHTINPHILS on Jul 19, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
But I think that brings up the point everyone is talking about. Maybe losing Gagne’s salary leads to something else. But do you have to give up Gagne for virtually nothing?
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
what amazes me is that mikey miss isn’t all over this right now. oh wait, he hates hockey lol
by PHIGHTINPHILS on Jul 19, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
man that isn’t good news to wake up to. So is Turco in our future now?
what a sad day…
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
Just a hunch — Turco’s a Flyer by the end of today.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s my feeling as well. Homer is on the phone with him now
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
you just woke up?
focus on the positives! you slept in today!
Homer's checklist:
Improve defense. More defensemen! Easy!
Improve faceoffs. Hmm, how to improve faceoffs? I got it! Get more centers! They do that thing! Check!
Improve goaltending. Something something goalie…eh, 2 out of 3 ain’t bad.
Calls it a day.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
by hintzy64 on Jul 19, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahaha I like that… seems like what he is doing.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He did have a plan after all.
Just at the moment it appears to be a stupid one.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Strangely, this does appear to be the logic.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
in short
mez = 4.2 mill
walker = 1.7 mil
4th round pick :/
for Gagne 5.2
2nd round pick
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
yeah i saw that post on raw charge too
sums it up nicely
Excellent point; all of the Flyer angst aside, the Lightning have really improved in just a few weeks.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This is what I don’t get. Not a cap savings. Then why?
A Nation of Masochists
1967 - Owning the drought since 2010
Gagne: “Tampa Bay was a team I was more than willing to waive my no move clause for. I really like the direction the team is headed in.”
I agree, Simon.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
i agree as well. Stevie Y is great gm
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
as long as Homer isnt the GM
any team is heading in a good direction. Homer will skyrocket upwards, then bing you right back down
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Could this be the first step in becoming to Tampa what Nashville was to us?
by Giroux-ling for Cheese on Jul 19, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought the Hurricanes were the flyers south a couple years back
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
As they used to be some 10 years ago – they took all the Flyer castoffs like the whole Chris Gratton saga (which, in some ways, always puts me in mind of Jeff Carter … not sure why). But this deal BETTER have come with “future considerations” or it was absolute crap.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Why did we not just trade Simon for Meszaros in the first place?
If that’s really what he planned (sic) to do?
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Excellent question.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Answer: Stevie Y is smarter than Paulie H
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps he hoped the Kovy situation would drive up Gagne’s price?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Wouldn’t it make sense then to allow the price to go up? He waited about an hour.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Is signing Turco that much of a priority? Because the team has until the start of the season to get back under the cap.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not talking about Turco…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just assuming that’s why this deal was done.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair assumption. And accurate critique.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought this deal was done because the Flyers were like $3 million over the salary cap. Not because three backup goalies wasn’t enough (though it’s probably not, in Homer’s world).
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Well, yes, but this is Homer we are talking about. In this sense, I do believe he panicked, even if it was not a panic trade. Does that make sense?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
haha, it all goes back to Homer…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
right now
id rather him lift the cup in TB then Homer touch it here.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
that's silly
let’s not get carried away here, if we win a SC this year we’ll all be talking about Homer’s genius.
hah yeah
bad trade though this is…. i want us to win a SC, not simon gagne. Not anymore.
That actually made me laugh really hard as the visor looks like packing tape, making it look like that’s a Gagne mask.
I love the Flyers so much I even went to Bobby Clarke Day Camp.
by billy_pilgrim on Jul 19, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
What happened to Simon’s face? Was he in that commercial with Peyton Manning and Justin Timberlake when they took the 3D glasses off?
How can you get anything done since this news?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
and with the way Homer just loves to open up the wallet and spend freely, im sure hed be a great guy to go to the bar with
Sure, he’ll drop $100 for a shot of the cheapest crap they have behind the bar. Figures it’s been undervalued.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
It just needs a second chance!
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Im out of state….and dont drink,
But dam it he owes me one too
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if he would be able to fit all that alcohol under the cap. He might need to trade Briere and Hartnell for Georges Laraque and a 7th
I hate this feeling of either this is going to be good for us in the end…or just completely blow up in our faces…
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
unless we can get nabby to come back from russia, it ain’t happening
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
is this russia danny? this isn’t russia.
by McNabbSoup on Jul 19, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You at least have hope this is going to be good in the end… That’s something, right?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
For all of us who are currently at work or related
I have a meeting to go to shortly, and either it will be a relief from this (!!!????) or I will be a very nasty camper in the meeting.
“I vote no to everything”
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
I'll just re-post my Facebook status because I'm too sad to think of something new.
’I’m 19 years old. Most of my conscious memories only go back to 2nd or 3rd grade, which is when Simon Gagne started playing for the Flyers. He IS Flyers hockey as far as I have experienced in life, so it’s maybe the saddest day in hockey for me to see him go. Thanks for 11 years Simon, you’ve been my favorite since then, and you still are. I’m strongly considering a TB Gagne jersey now.’
I’m a Flyers fan, a Gagne fan, and a most importantly a hockey fan. I’ll gladly wear a TB Gagne jersey if he ends up re-signing there for a few years. I also own a ‘94 SCF Canucks Bure jersey, a home Winnipeg Jets Teemu Selanne jersey, a Team Canada Gagne jersey (I’m from NJ), a Peter Stastny Nordiques shirt and a Whalers hat. I love hockey, so I’ll wear what I like.
Wearing opposing jerseys is a violation.
Personally, I’m a hockey fan, a Gagne fan, and most importantly a Flyers fan.
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook
Haha, JasonB, I don’t think he’s ever seen you picture postings of the “worst fans in the world”. Every time I pass a car with NYY/Cowboys/Lakers stickers, I think of you.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
"This was a move to solidify our defense," said Paul Holmgren #Flyers
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
and you already have a 7th that is nhl ready and you have good defensive prospects. wtf homer
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
of course… one of those Dmen he got will play left wing… why didn’t we think of that before… 3 defensemen and 2 forwards… nobody will score on us and richie and Carter can do enough we don’t need a third guy.
/sarcasm
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe one of his 8 #3 goalies can play lw, probably better than they do in net
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t he play forward in the olympics??? I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens if he does end up a forward.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Somewhere, Stevie Y is laughing to himself hysterically.
by Giroux-ling for Cheese on Jul 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man, stop. Stop. I’m laughing so hard I can’t breathe.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i can’t stop laughing either. so any bets on how long before Turco signs?
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
by EREX21 on Jul 19, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Homer
You idiot!
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Like you guys, I don’t understand this deal? It would at least make a little sense to me if they wanted to just move Gagne out of conference, but instead the deal makes an up and coming Eastern team with good forward depth even better.
We were really happy to see Matt Walker leave Chicago. To say he was “an adventure” would be an understatement. He also has zero puck-handling skills (I saw a comment here regarding Walker’s ability to move the puck up ice).
Here’s the review done by McClure at SCH after Walker’s year with the Hawks:
http://www.secondcityhockey.com/2009/6/11/906257/08-09-season-review-matt-walker
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the comment was “he creates space so others can move the puck up ice.”
Not an exact quote, and I think it came from Homer, but yes. We entirely agree.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Homer was misquoted?
“He takes up space so others have to move the puck up ice.”
With the cap situation from hell in Chicago, I can’t say I feel like we caught the short end of the stick on any of the deals this summer. After Gagne’s 10 years in Philly, this is a kick in the nuts. We haven’t had any career type players in Chicago for a while, but from a fan’s perspective this is similar to when Wirtz chased Roenick out of town (but at least we got Zhamnov out of the deal and you guys eventually got Roenick for a few good years).
Well, I hope for you guys this all part of a bigger plan.
Lord Stanley's new address: Sweet Home Chicago!
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 19, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
wtf…. our defense was already solidified… I guess this was a panic move after all if that is the best reason he could come up with.
I’d put facepalm pictures but I’ve been beaten to it… I was even going to do captain picard.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No worries. Next year Philly can roll 3 lines and 9 defenseman
A Nation of Masochists
1967 - Owning the drought since 2010
Unbelievably, life imitates art. Bad news, I was inadvertently correct.
This is way-too-close to my joke last week about “don’t we have a great defense” I cited above.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
only way this will be a win is if like the first game Gagne gets hit hard and goes down for a long time with injury. I don’t wish that on Gags but that is one of his major problems is staying healthy. Never know, could go down early and not be a factor for Tampa.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
Yeah, I don’t want that to happen. I’d love more than anything to finally see him score 50 goals.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
That’s still a win?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
a weak weak weak win…perhaps.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
by PhillyPhan85 on Jul 19, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
doesn’t change the fact that homer got fleeced. the earlier rumored deal of smith and prospects was better
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe the fans over-valued Gagne?
It wouldn’t be the first time fans around here held a higher regard for a home grown player then what his actual value is on the open market. I am a lot less emotionally invested in players then most, but I admit I even expected more in return. Reality is though would anyone be surprised if Gagne only played between 55 and 65 games while only earning his cap space in about 25 games? And if that happened around here AGAIN, I would have been pissed they kept him around while taking up that kind of space on the cap. They moved a popular long time player that quite frankly frustrated more then he fulfilled. I will wait to see before I deem it a horrible trade. I am no Holmgren fan but if there was more to be had he would have gotten it. Face it, this might have been the best option to free up the cap space.
Just Call Me "M"!
by MJDII on Jul 19, 2010 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m wondering if any other offers were nullified by Gagne’s NTC. He is restricted a tad by that.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
But Gagne’s worth more than a 4th rd. pick, right?
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Well not necessarily when he has an NTC that lets him choose his team, has a big cap hit in the final year of his contract, and has an injury history…
The NTC is really what hurts. If you could shop him on the open market and field offers from all teams maybe they could have gotten a bidding war going, but if the “market” was only two teams… that’s tough.
Follow Bleeding Green Nation on Twitter & Facebook
"My initial reaction was pure excitement," said Walker. "To find out that I was coming to Philly, I don’t know if I would say it was a life-long dream, but I’ve always wanted to play in Philly and I thought I would be a good fit there."
Enjoy your time here. It probably won’t last long.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
why would any defensemen want to come here now? you’d get no playing time.
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
get paid for doing nothing … sounds like an awesome deal to me … get paid 2M to sit in the press box all year long …
nah, they’ll have bartulis to do that if they had any brains but i’m sure that its prove homer doesn’t have any left. maybe this is karma for stealing leino for okt when detroit had to dump him
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
O’Donnell has a two way contract so he might be the 7th defenseman most of the time anyway.
Just Call Me "M"!
He has a one-way contract.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
so we can’t waive him? or send him down?
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
One-way = could waive
NMC = cannot waive
I expect Bartulis will be waived since I think his is also one-way (isn’t it?)
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Bartulis is a better and cheaper option than Walker.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Oh, no doubt
But that is not what I expect now.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
No, he’s got a one-way contract this year – just signed during last season.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
All a one way contract means is that he gets paid his full salary while in the AHL; Bartulis has not played enough NHL games, so even with his one-way contract he doesn’t have to go through waivers yet. While I’m late on the answer, ic0n67 should be correct.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 20, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You can waive him, sure. If he clears waivers then you can send him down. He’s a veteran player, though — not going to do that. More likely you see Bartulis waived if Homer wants to keep Walker, since the Wolf has a three-year one-way contract at a $600,000 cap hit starting for this season.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Hmm, a bad trade that could end up in Boosh, Bartulis, and Gagne leaving for Matt Walker and Turco.
Homer stared this reality directly in the face and didn’t blink.
gotta give him credit for courage
in fact, I give this trade an F for Fortitude!
well let’s hope he doesn’t want to keep walker b/c they he’d be overpaying for a scratch
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
See his quotes posted by Ben Feldman below.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Wonder if he ever dreamed of playing in Glens Falls?
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
That makes, what, three people happy with this trade?
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
that made me laugh
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Shhhh...
Let’s not tell him.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Hmmn, dont see anything on their website about moving…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
They’re moving to Allentown in a couple of years.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
ahh beat me to it… but yeah we are all thinking the same thing lol
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess he’ll be in for a shock when he realizes the Phantoms are in Adirondack and not Philly anymore.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Poor katchis ...
One can only hope this is a temporary exile, and after next year’s cap hell Homer finds a way to bring Simon back … I’m really kind of speechless at this point.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
maybe i’ll go play nhl and be a better gm than homer
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought she was a Lightning fan first? This is probably okay for her.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I actually saw her post that she didn’t even want to see him traded to TB, even though that’s her favorite team, because that would mean he’s no longer on the Flyers. He is Flyers hockey to her.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Homer better beware of a pissed off Czech wielding a high caliber magnum
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
by PhillyPhan85 on Jul 19, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
just tried it as Tampa
and no, the Flyers declined it.
Funny thing is, the GM said “the fans would run me out of town if I made this trade.” does this give us enough freedom to run Homer out of town.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
Hahaha. That’s great. In an awful way.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I think that is as good a precedent as any
by SanDiegoScraps on Jul 19, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer's Brain.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 19, 2010 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Kreider shoots…HE SCOOOOOOORES!!!!!!
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
by PhillyPhan85 on Jul 19, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Is the powder blue crayon still lodged inside of our Homer’s?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Let’s make this green!!!
You definitely score with this one… awesome!!!!! I wish it was under better circumstances I was laughing at that.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
“No I don’t feel like right now we have to make a move” – Holmgren
Of course you don’t.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
When my girlfriend finds me passed out with an empty bottle of Scotch next to me when she gets home, and asks me why she found me that way. I’ll simply answer Ben Feldman kept exposing me to Homer’s logic.
LOL
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
“I think we’re OK in front, in terms of the ability to score goals, it’ll come down to whether the players can do it or not.” – Holmgren
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
granola has more brains than homer
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
At least granola can be delicious, if not a little fatty.
Homer’s brain is all fat cells and scar tissue. Nothing delicious there.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
“If this is our team in training camp, I’d be completely comfortable with it.” – Paul Holmgren
“Just ignore the part about having eight defensemen, okay guys?”
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Can any of them play wing?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Actually, didn’t Barty play wing back home? Not that I see that as a good idea, just sayin’.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Yeah. So let’s slot him onto the third line with JVR and Giroux instead of Backlund.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Ha. Ha.
Actually, I see Powe getting signed now to play there. Or MAYBE G will be playing wing and Carts will center …
I’m just so confused. With 8 defensemen and some decent cap room, does it figure that Holmgren isn’t done?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
You’d think so, right?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
i suspect that must be the next move
Bartulis as a W and backup D guy.
Homer Logic: “If you add up all 3 of our #2 goalies that becomes a #8 goalie … no one has a #8 goalie so it is quite a chip to play”
lmao. 3 times 2 equals 8. yeah sounds like homer, no math skills whatsoever
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Apologies to RAJ
Since I made a disparaging comment about him earlier; even he, in his most snarky moment, would not dare say this were he in Homer’s shoes.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
for some reason, this is the only image i can come up with to describe how stupid Homer is
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
GIR!!!!!! What a funny show, my girlfriend turned me onto it. Gir is so funny but dumb and unfortunately I can see Homer doing that for waffles. I think that’s how Yzerman got him to bite…. put a huge plate of waffles on his desk.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
sh*t rolls down hill – at the bottom = shelley, carcillo, walker, a missing 2nd round pick and 8 defense-men, 3 backup goalies and memories of the good ole days
remember the time we were in the scf and nearly forced a game 7…until our idiot goalie had a brain fart…oh yeah that goalie is our starter next year. wtf
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember
The Hawks in the ’09 WCF Game 5….overtime…our defensemen had a brain fart and Detroit went on to the SCF.
That defenseman was Matt Walker.
We, Chicago fans, laughed when he got that HUGE salary as he’s really not fit to play in the NHL. Now you’re paying him.
If you’re crying now, just wait until you see Matt Walker attempt to play hockey (hint; it’s a horror show)
""No I don’t feel like right now we have to make a move" - Holmgren"
No, I think there is another move we’re ready to make… for a new GM.
Your new GM is Clarke or Paddock. Not much difference then.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I bet you Clarke would be better than Homer. Based on his interviews, he has clearly realized that his way, was not the way to be a successful GM any longer.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I don’t see why we can’t just bring in someone from outside the organization. Look how well Laviolette worked out?
by StarbladeMKIII on Jul 19, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
We could…but the Flyers are all about keeping it in the family.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Yeah, Snider would never bring in someone who isn’t an organizational soldier.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Russ Farwell left a lasting impression, I’d imagine.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
He’s now the GM of the Seattle Thunderbirds. Jacob DeSerres was on the Seattle Thunderbirds. It may explain why he wasn’t doing so well there.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Wasn’t he with Seattle BEFORE he was GM of the Flyers?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Yeah, I think so. Experience at a top-level? What do you need that for, Jay?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Yeah, I remember discussing that a few months ago. But there’s a difference between knowledge and execution, you know? Like, it’s real easy for us to sit here and armchair GM, if you will, but if you’re the one who’s really making the final decisions now, I bet you do a lot of second guessing.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
???????
N oeffing way – Clarkie needed a serious lobotomy since his days as GM to be better than Homer … although I am confused right now as to what the hell is going on with him.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Holmgren said, after Cup loss, his biggest goal was to strengthen the defense and add size to the roster. Walker does bring both.
Because it was the defense’s fault that Michael Leighton’s five hole was exposed.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
HOMER YOU EFFING IDIOT WE HAVE DAN CARCILLO AND JODI SHELLEY AS REGULAR WINGS RIGHT NOW WHAT ABOUT GOALTENDING WHAT ABOUT IMPROVING THE OFFENSE, THE DEFENSE IS WHAT GOT US TO THE CUP AND MADE LEIGHTON LOOK GOOD WE ONLY NEEDED TO IMPROVE A BIT THERE. YOU MOTHER-FUSADFLJKLASDFJKLASFJKASKLFJASKLDJFKASLJAJSDFLKASJKFLASKJLFSADJ
IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 19, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
this offseason is going downhill fast. if leights starts the season for us as #1 i’m going to pry my eyeballs out
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS WHOLE OFFSEASON
ultimately came down to this gagne situation and if he could turn it into a goalie and perhaps a winger to replace Gagne.
WE GOT ANOTHER DEFENSEMEN FOR 1.7 FRIKKEN MILLION THAT WE’RE JUST GOING TO SEND TOT HE MINORS
A FOURTH ROUND PICK, A FOURTH ROUND PICK!?
Homer cant possibly believe that he needed to improve the defense (which we arent since his cap hit will be too much to even bring him up during the season), he cant be that dumb can he?
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 19, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i would hope so but he keeps proving me wrong. if he had any brains left he’d send cote, walker, and maybe boosh packing and have turco on the phone now
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure how that was his takeaway from seeing the Flyers last season. From what I saw, we needed more consistent scoring depth, some slight upgrades on the third pairings, and an above bargain bin goaltender.
and we fixed one of those problems. probably overkilled it.
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
And I thought Chicago was having a bad off season...
at least they WON the cup.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Proposal for new '3-Headed' GM...
Since they seem to only want guys from INSIDE the organization to be GM, I propose a 3-Headed attack (like a Captain and 2 Alternates)…Dave Schultz, Craig Berube, & Dave Brown…While Schultzie keeps the other team’s GM on the line making a trade offer, Berube and Brown can show up to ensure its an offer they can’t refuse…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Can we afford, now to keep Powe on the team? I never got to make a t-shirt for him :( haha
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
if powe doesn’t get resigned, i’m gonna be pissed. Powe> shelley and cheaper
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I can’t imagine they won’t re-sign Powe. Shares healthy scratch with Shelley during the regular season, replaces Shelley for any playoff games. Or something like that.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
There was a right way to do this trade, and a wrong way. This was the wrong way, it got us back nothing. I said I’d stay off Homer till it all panned out, and now I can finally rip his ass to shreds for the next couple months.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
agreed. I thought we’d get picks and prospects back like the ones mentioned earlier in the thread and get a goalie.i could live with that, but this shit. get the pitchforks
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Wooo….boy. Seeing the names being thrown out initially in this post, knowing what we actually got, was hilarious.
Now I’m going to drink.
what happened did Yzerman change it at the last minute or what?
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
it was from reliable source. something tells me that last minute homer got screwed or had second thoughts or something
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be...
This reminds me of a Family Guy episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7HmAPsCj-g
Just make the following substitutions:
Peter → Homer
Guy behind desk → Stevie Y
Boat → Goalie
3 tickets to a comedy club → no, this one is actually pretty accurate
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
We’ve always wanted one of those!!!
Peter: Well at least that’s not the dumbest thing I’ve done. Remember that time we could have gotten a boat?
(Flash to previous scene)
Lois: That just happened 10 minutes ago.
Yeah, let’s put a new term in the Flyers Urban dictionary. When Homer makes a trade like this he got Peter’d
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I didn’t think that through a lot (too pissed).
Yeah Mystery Boxed… I like that a lot better.
now to make a dialogue of what happened:
Yzerman: All right Homer, I see that you are offering Gagne and in return I am giving you Dana Tyrell and Ty Wishart and your 2nd rounder back. You can take that offer, or you can go for what’s in the box. I’ll give you a hint, it’s a veteran roster player who addresses one of your stated offseason needs and a draft pick.
Homer: Awww man, those prospects are a great return, but the box it could be anybody. It could even be St. Louis!!! I’ll take the box.
later in the car… well you get the picture.
Anybody else feel free to make that funnier.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s perfect. I will now assume that is actually what happened.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
lol roflmao. that’s totally how it went down
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol I’m glad people are finding it funny. Have to brighten people’s days somehow.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer press conference live on CSNPhilly.com (and CSN, I’d imagine).
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Link?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s over now. Only lasted a few minutes — looked like he was only talking to the TV media, since he already had the journalist conference call.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
“I felt we were a small team last year.” -Homer
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
we were small in goaltending, did we get bigger there Paul? Cause the last time i checked the only thing getting bigger was Leighton’s 5 hole.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 19, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Taking a page out of old Flyers team building manuals.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
yeah and those manuals don’t really work post-lockout. We could have used 1 more bigger guy, but not all of these new ones he got.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
they never worked for the last 35 years anyway.
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer said he also wanted to improve scoring, and said he understands moving Gagne is counterproductive, but he’s assuming the players with off-seasons (Hartnell, etc.) will have bounceback years.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
wasnt improved production from hartnell supposed to fill in the gap from the loss of Lupul and Upshall? and that was with Gagne. great logic homer.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 19, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I was going to say the same thing.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah exactly, they didn’t fill the void from Lupul and Knuble last season, but everybody did pretty much have an off-season mostly, maybe most will bounce back to their normal productions.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Where is Chris I need to yell at him and then black out…it’s the only thing that will get me through this…well that and scotch.
haha, want me to pretend?
its a great trade everyone knew gagne isn’t worth much walker might be good this team needs defense everyone wanted draft picks and we got one whats the problem
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
haha…if only I believed that’s how you really felt, and then you change your point 3 times in the course of the discussion. But I’m not going to lie, when I first read it, I did have a flash of white hot rage.
Wanna go? Wanna go old man???
Seriously.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m actually having a panic attack right now that Homer actually wanted Walker. That he honestly wanted Walker, and felt this team needed him as a 6/7/8th defenseman. I may punch myself in the face right now.
seriously. there was no forward that yzerman was willing to throw away
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, that’s a very, very scary thought.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I know you can’t take statements to the media as fact, but is there anything to suggest he didn’t?
I’m honestly having an easier time believing Homer wanted Walker, than Yzerman making him take Walker as part of the deal.
Neither one speaks well of Homer…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, but I’d feel a lot safer with the direction of the team if it were the later rather than the former.
Ok, that’s it, I’m going home, getting out the good scotch and BBQing something. If you happen to read about another zamboni catching on fire tonight at Aston Ice Works, you don’t know me.
haha, done.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I think this is correct. (I post later that you should listen to the Stevie Y presser).
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Already did...
I actually listened to it on the way home from work after I posted on here. Stevie Y had a great response to someone asking if he wanted to add more grit and toughness. And Stevie Y, in so many words said, no that’s not how you win hockey games, you win with guys like St. Louis, who fight for the puck and have skill. I wish Homer, and more people on this site saw it that way. That was my favorite part. My least favorite was that the Kovie signing and this deal, the whole timing thing, was a coincidence. Sigh. I’m losing faith in our management.
Homer described Walker as a “physical, stay-at-home defenseman” who can let other guys play the puck up ice.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
so basically any given NHL defensemen. That’s what yuo gave up one the longest tenured and classiest Flyers for.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 19, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like Ryan Parent.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
at least Parent had some potential
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
My Favorite Flyer of all time gets traded for a bag of penalty mins and a 4th Rnder?
Thank you Paul Holmgren. I’m ordering my TB Jersey now.
And still no goalie…. what a joke.
the goalie thing is what gets me. it was our #1 issue this year and just about every year for last 20 years and he does nothing. diddly shit about it.
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I go to take a shower, hear this news, and now I feel like a need another one…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 19, 2010 4:13 PM EDT reply actions
and this why we need an outside GM
someone who actually cares about goaltending and is over the Broad St. Bullies.
we’ve been reliving the same formula over and over and over again.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 19, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions
how is this any better than putting Gagne on waivers? we got nothing in return anyway…except another 1.7 million against the cap that we don’t need
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions
Fourth round pick > nothing, I guess.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
that and gagne got to go to a team of his choosing. but how about just our 2nd back instead of walker and a 4th
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ehh. Yzerman had all the leverage in this deal. Homer needed to make a move since he was well over the cap and Yzerman has all kinds of cap room, so he wasn’t exactly desperate to move an undesirable contract like Walker’s.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
so homer had to take walker? i can’t see why anyone with a brain would want another defensemen unless homer is going to go do something stupid like trade carle
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I think Ben is suggesting Homer wanted, or is at least happy with, Walker b/c Yzerman really didn’t have to dump salary.
no ones knows…but you could read all of Homer’s quotes and take them at face value. They wanted to solidify their dcore and get bigger.
but they did that already. someone should introduce homer to cap geek
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer needs to move Gagne, since he refuses to move Carter. Gagne will approve a move to Tampa or LA. LA doesn’t want to make a deal just yet, or isn’t really interested in Gagne at all, or whatever. Tampa, however, is interested. Homer says “okay, Tampa, what do you want”. Stevie says “I’m only making a deal with you if you take Walker.” Homer says “no”. Stevie says “fine, then no deal.” Homer has to make a move, remember, so he says “okay, Walker and a fourth.” Stevie says “deal,” then puts the phone on hold and almost chokes because of how hard he is laughing.
^^ Really simplified version, but I think something like that happened.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
But Ben! The bidding war! Teams want Gagne. With NYR, NYI, TOR, TB, LA, MIN, COL, etc… wanting Gagne, this was obviously the best deal possible. I mean, Gagne is only worth Matt Walker and a 4th.
/sarcasm.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
NYR, NYI, TOR, TB, LA, MIN, COL, etc
Not waiving or trading, not waiving or trading, not waiving, will waive and is interested, will waive but there’s not a lot of interest, not waiving because not competitive, still technically rebuilding so not moving any future assets (draft picks, prospects, etc.).
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
and LA? might’ve had some leverage there
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Never really seemed like they were truly interested. Maybe things change if Homer waits a week or a day or an hour.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
haha, Homer, wait?? Are you serious? Psh. That’s like asking the sun to wait an hour before rising in the morning.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s the guy who shows up awkwardly early to parties, and gives the person what they said they didn’t want.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
by Ben Feldman on Jul 19, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if the man had any patience we’d have a better goalie than leights, foster instead of mez, and kept gagne
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we do a poll?
Is there anyone who thinks we didnt get robbed? I get the cap implications, really I do, but still.
A – I like it!
B – Threw up in my mouth like when Lee was traded to Seattle.
C – It would’ve been better with just the 4th rounder coming back.
D- I threw up in my mouth because Lee being traded to Seattle gave us some good prospects and no salary in return.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
all in favor of changing the tagline of the site from "Searching for Goaltending since 1987" to "Searching for General Management Since (Date Clarke became GM)"
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
but we still need a goalie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought we already had good guys down at the Phantoms who aren’t far from making the jump?
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
People talk about Clarke like he was an awful GM. He wasn’t. It’s not his fault he ran into the Oilers dynasty. He didn’t make the deal for Lindros, Russ Farwell did. Now, he could have done a much better job building a team around Lindros, but he always had a team that was competitive. I read in a biography of Pelle that Clarke hated to hand out the contract he did for Pelle that made him highest paid on the team, even though it was well-deserved, and I think how that story ended had something to do with his reluctance to acquire a real #1 even when he had virtually unlimited dollars to spend.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
The post-lockout Clark was a HORRIBLE GM. He continued to sign complete pylons on defense, thinking he needed big bodies back there (and saddled us with the oft-hated and recently-relieved Rathje contract). And the way that Holmgren is acting this last several weeks … I think he’s actually dead and Bobby is wearing his empty skin. I mean, 8 defensemen? Moving Gagne?? JODY SHELLEY?????
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
…and no goalie? oh and potentially lazy european player that was high draft pick (cough Brendl cough)
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Post-lockout Clarke had to sign all his players to new contracts without knowing what the market would be like. One and an eighth seasons is small sample size, but either way, yeah, he was built for spending unlimited money, not having a cap. But that doesn’t change the fact that he wasn’t an awful GM pre-lockout.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
It’s an apples to oranges comparison since Clarke demonstrated no appetite for managing in a cap world. And Holmgren is showing math is not for everyone.
I didn’t but you already mentioned him. Dopita was the worst though, as he basically stole money for 2 years. Cechmanek’s mid-ice Roberto Duran “no mas” notwithstanding, he was at times an almost competent tender.
Cechmanek is actually career GAA leader on the flyers. sad fact but more related to era of play than anything
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly right now I might be longer for Cechmanek at his best over Leighton and his 5 hole
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Cechmanek was never bad. He was excellent during the regular season and fine during the playoffs. It’s not his fault the team scored two goals in five games while everyone got mad at him. Why does he have a bad reputation, too?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
mcnabb syndrome…when in doubt blame the quarterback/goalie instead of looking at the real problem (defense, offensive line)
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
He wasn’t horrible, but he had his weak spots, as does Homer. It’s easy to blame it all on Clarke, sort of like how Phillies fans blame everything on Ed Wade, yet Wade was at the helm when all of our core was drafted. So there were SOME things that Wade did well. His weakness was handing out middle relief contracts. And trades.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Clarke inherited the 1980s Flyers. He did NOT build them. He became GM in 1984, at which point Poulin, Propp, Kerr, Zezel, Smith, Howe, McCrimmon, Crossman, Marsh, Lindbergh, Sinisalo, Froese, et. al. were already on the team, and guys like Eklund and Hextall had already been drafted. The one move he made was to trade Darryl Sittler for Murray Craven and Joe Paterson. That’s it.
If you guys think post-1995 Clarke was a horrible GM, he was even worse PRE-1995, when he took an extremely well-built, well-rounded team and shot it to shit.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Cap Space
Help me understand the “cap space” comment.
Gagne is due 5.5M and Walker is due 1.7M, aren’t the Flyers now 3.5M under the cap instead of 1M?
No…after signing Zherdev and Carcillo, they were 2.5M OVER the cap…Gagne’s 5.25M would get us down to 2.75M under, Walker’s salary takes us back up to approx 1.05M under the cap…when Cote and Boosh are released, that will take us to just about 2.5M under the cap…we could maybe sign Turco for that, or call up Backlund which would take us back to 1.7M under…
Confused? You won’t be after this weeks episode of…SOAP!
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
I’m going to call you out, but you’re only the most recent person to say it:
Why does everyone say “when Cote is waived”? He was carried all year last year even AFTER being waived at the deadline. It’s far from a guarantee that Cote is gone this season.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
again why? Cote is a waste of a roster spot. he was then and is even more so now
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t apply logic to anything Homer is doing, it isn’t working out well so far.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
It is technically possible that
One of the reasons we got rid of gagne is so Cote can stay on the books
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 19, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Possible? Yes. At this point, anything is possible.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
B/c he has been for a while, yet the team continues to carry his roster spot. Also did you notice Homer just talking about his recent acquisition of Walker. Would you really be surprised at this point, really?
Thank you.
I’m not at all saying Riley Cote should be on the team next year, but what evidence is there to suggest he won’t be? Jody Shelley? This team had Dan Carcillo and Arron Asham as their tough guys last year, and they still kept Cote around all year. Just replace Shelley with Asham, and everyone thinks Cote is gone.
Logically, it makes sense. Holmgren logic… haha, wait, that doesn’t exist.
Get my point?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well…with Carcillo AND Shelley on the roster, Powe still needing to be signed, and still goalie issues, it would seem Cote and his 500k would be expendible…it seems like a logical solution…
Then again I am operating with a fully operational brain, not sure how many cylinders Homer actually has operating…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Exactly my point. To you, me, and every Flyers fan, Cote needs to be waived.
But he should have been waived last year, but he wasn’t. So I have no idea why everyone just assumes he’s gone. Again, not meant as an attack on you, especially since this is about the 4th time I’ve said it.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i know but it just upsets me how much of an idiot that homer can be
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Entering today, the Flyers were ~$2.5 million over the cap.
Subtract Gagne’s $5.25 mil and you have ~$2.75 mil in cap space. But add Walker’s $1.7 mil and the team only has ~$1.05 mil in cap space.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
if this is the last of homer’s moves i’m going to pissed. Cote doesn’t deserve a roster spot
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Riley’s a good guy, but we can’t afford to pay him another 500k this year to go on Preston and Steve every other week to give soundbytes…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
we can give her his spot on the roster…for morale
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re no longer together, apparently. So…I don’t think one necessarily has to do with the other.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Really…really…? I don’t even know what to say that hasn’t already been said.
I haven’t understood or liked a single move this entire offseason so far. Why exactly did the flyers need another defenseman? Are they playing four defensive lines next season, or going with some hybrid 2-3 formation where we just crease sit the whole game and hope to win every match 1-0?
I think Homer has eaten too many doughnuts lately.
I could still, conceivably, talk myself into:
Carter/Richie/Zherdev
Leino/Briere/Harts
JVR/Giroux/Powe
Carcillo/Betts/Lappy
Shelley
Pronger/Carle
Timonen/Coburn
Meszaros/O’Donnell
Bartulis
Turco
Leighton
Which probably means we aren’t interested in Turco, aren’t resigning Powe, and are keeping Walker and Cote. Every time I’ve looked at this roster and said “This is still salvageable,” Homer lobbed a grenade in that foxhole.
i have similar lineup but switch powe to 4th, carbomb to 1st and zherdev to 3rd.
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
this can't be it... patience
No way can this be it for this offseason, we are not going to carry 8 D-Men into regular season nor both Cote and Shelly I can’t imagine that happening. More to come…. Patience is a Virtue.
Before we start hanging Homer.
He did get us Leino.
He did get us Pronger.
He did sign Zherdev for a mere 2 million.
He did get us Coburn for Zhitnik
and Carle and saved the season last year with the waiver wire pickup of Leighton
The Shelly signing and getting an 8th D-Man for Gagne have me befuddled. Turco will have be inked soon and I have to think another D-Man will have to be moved. I am little surprised here have to be patient before I get mad. Last year losing Knuble was Homer’s biggest mistake. I can’t imagine starting the season with Hartnell as my top LWer.
He did get us Leino.
Shows you how leverage works. Detroit was desperate for cap space and the Flyers weren’t quite as desperate.
He did get us Pronger.
Yep.
He did sign Zherdev for a mere 2 million.
Because Zherdev wanted to find a way to re-enter the NHL on a team where he could have offensive players to support him, drive up his stats and give him a big paycay in 12 months. See: Emery, Ray.
He did get us Coburn for Zhitnik
More to do with Atlanta being incompetent, but yes.
and Carle
Pronger always does this to his D-men partners. And look at how Downie did this past year. But yes.
and saved the season last year with the waiver wire pickup of Leighton
Luck and a good goalie coach. Full marks for Homer getting a top-notch goalie coach, though. Lemelin sucked.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
What will it take for you to admit Homer has royally effed up this offseason?
The team he managed made it to Game 6 of the SCF after barely making the playoffs and putting him out of a job. Call it a wash.
But when the guy makes the moves he did this offseason, and you have to cite a) A trade that fell in his lap; b) trading a roster player, two first round picks, and your previous first round pick; c) a deal that forced the bad trade you are now “befuddled” by; d) a trade from 4 years ago; e) a trade fixing his egregious mistake of Steve Eminger; and f) getting lucky on the waiver wire… you’ve only cited one deal (Pronger) that he initiated and wasn’t a correction.
Seriously, what will it take for you to admit this guy should be fired based on this month of work?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone could have got Leino is the deal was sitting out there why didn’y Ray Shero pull it or someone else come one not giving Homer credit for getting Leino is bullshit. Coburn is still on this team right so it does matter that he got him. But you have to be fair when giving Credit for Leino.
He overpaid Lupul and Jones and let Knuble walk things I didn’t agree with. Not upgrading our scoring depth so far I don’t agree with it. I am glad we upgraded our 3rd pairing but the other two things I wanted were a 3 line winger and better goalie. So far only one has been accomplished.
This offseason isn’t done yet and I will reserve judgment until it is done.
By Royaling fing up he would have had to have traded Giroux or JVR. We got the better D our scoring is probably the same with Zherdev and the goalie is going to come. I wouldn’t call it ROYAL F’ED up. But the team is still better is one of the 3 areas we need to address. Probably 2 of the 3 if they sign Turco. I would have done things differently you have done things differently I get it. But this isn’t the end of the world, Geoff, you are just taking it too far.
Absolute worst-case scenario, he sends Giroux or JVR down to the AHL. They’re still on their entry-level contracts, remember. Even Homer could get that right.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
There’s still a games played threshold you have to worry about even if they are on ELCs. I don’t recall what it is exactly, but we talked about the ridiculous possibility of sending Backstrom to the AHL last year to open cap space and it turns out we would have had to put him through waivers despite him being on an ELC.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
160 games for both Giroux and JvR, since they signed ELCs before turning 21. Because Backstrom played all 82 games as soon as he came up, his waiver exemption expired near the end of the 08-09 season. Giroux still has 33 games of waiver eligibility, and van Riemsdyk has 81.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Good luck putting them on waivers and keeping them. I’m sure that plan will work out great for you.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
And you are acting like Holmgren has a checklist in a non-salary cap world:
Upgrade D: Done – who cares if he overpaid, gave up a second round pick, or didn’t wait to see that the free agent market was severely in his favor. He got better players! Except for that damned salary cap…
Upgrade the third scoring line: Done. Except Zherdev might be on the first line replacing Gagne who he traded for NOTHING, so you’re banking on Carcillo being an upgrade over Asham. He didn’t upgrade the third-scoring line.
Upgrade the goalie: IF.
And like I said in the SBNPhilly article, the question isn’t “Is this team better?” It wouldn’t take much to upgrade on Asham, Krajicek, and Parent. Seriously. Those are the departing players. If you want to give Holmgren credit for upgrading those three, well, then it’s really easy to impress you.
No, the question is “What was Paul Holmgren doing?” He overpaid for Meszaros, Shelley, and Coburn, dumped Gagne for nothing, and was worse than Andy Reid in “time management” skills. But all you care about is that the team is better. My question then to you is, how hard is it to improve on Asham, Krajicek, and Parent? Not hard at all. How hard is it to put yourself in a situation where you are forced to dump your first line winger in order to upgrade those three? Very hard.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not entirely important for the Flyers’ immediate concerns, but I think it’s worth noting that the 2nd PHI moved for Meszaros wasn’t even the 2011 2nd. It was the 2012 2nd. The 2011 2nd is going to PHX for the Carcillo deal. Anyone that paid attention saw that a 2nd was the currency of the day for deadline day. Let’s say that PHI has cap room to play with at the deadline, is GMPH going to move the 2013 2nd? (Aside, does anyone know how far in the future you can trade away draft picks?)
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Who needs draft picks when you can just sign Mike Testwuide after nobody else does??
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually liked Testwuide in the NCAA. Sounds like his hands aren’t up to snuff though.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
And that’s fine. Testwuide might be better than a few of the second round picks from last year. But banking on a guy like him replacing your second round pick for each of 6 consecutive seasons?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. He’s not a replacement, I just don’t want to pile on. You know I’m a big proponent of building through the draft, and clearly that is not Holmgren’s priority.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Right.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not happy about the upgrade 3rd line scoring that is not done and might not get done. So I am not happy there. Goalie Turco is an upgrade if they get him until that happens there is not upgrade there either. So far not so good. But if Turco comes a we trade for a D-Man for a winger I think he did okay.
Yeah I would have been much happier to keep Gagne signed Zherdev, Turco and Foster and O’Donnell and never traded for Mezaros and dumped Cote and Boucher. That would have been more straight forward. If nothing else comes of this offseason I will not be happy. But I don’t think Homer ruined the franchise.
I don’t think he ruined the franchise either. But I think he’s messed up almost everything he’s done this offseason.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I like O’Donnell I like Zherdev and I like the Mez as a player not has a cap hit. I like not trading Carter. I want another winger and Turco.
I do agree we needed more size not that I want it all on the blueline a big forward would be nice. But there aren’t many of those guys around any more.
I am a little scared with all those I like our team comments I have been hearing. I think we are better but not as improved as we could have been.
Current Grade for offseason C to C-.
Well now you sound a lot more reasonable. At which point, arguing degrees isn’t any fun.
O’Donnell is the only off-season move I give Holmgren full props for. Zherdev was terribly timed. Meszaros was terribly timed, overpaid, we gave up too much, and a poor allocation of resources for what he will be doing. Carter is the better move than Gagne for the future, which Holmgren supposedly is looking for. But really, if they could trade Briere, he’d be even better to move.
And if we needed more size, how is Pronger, Coburn, Meszaros, and O’Donnell not enough on the blueline?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
So with two or three bigger D pairs (depending on how they are used) with the list from Geoff above, will that happen again? If no, then why get more large D-men? Where’s the additional wing? Where’s the #1 goalie?
by JerseyDriver on Jul 19, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like we met somewhere in the middle maybe it was just your tone but you sounded way more upset in your earlier posts. I think Meszaros and O’Donnell is enough. I agree with you there.
My initial reaction to this trade was to laugh. It’s ridiculous. Reading John Boruk’s recent story really brings the point home:
L.A. was never in it. Gagne only allowed 5 or 6 teams to be suitors, and Tampa initiated the trade. In other words, Homer backed himself into a corner, pushed Gagne out so he could run from behind him, and escaped without his pants. There was no bidding war, there was no leverage. It was exactly why Gagne was a salary dump to fix Holmgren’s mistakes. It’s laughable. This was not a hockey decision, and Boruk just proved it.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t call anything Homer did “mistakes” until the guys hit the ice. But it was a Salary Dump. I the hockey decision was Meszaros and Zherdev is better than Gagne. I would agree with that. But in light of what other options we are assuming were available. We could have upgraded our D and got Zherdev without losing Gagne. I still think the team is better than it was last year.
I am not happy with some of the moves. I was pretty aggrvated yesterday for more reasons than just hockey it was generally a bad day.
DLJr and Geoff in an attempt end our glorious battles.
Could you respond to these questions with a simple yes or no.
Is the team better off with Meszaros and Zherdev then Gagne?
I would say yes.
Have the Flyers improved this offseason?
I would also yes.
Could we have kept Gagne and got Zherdev and improved our Defense ?
I would also say yes.
I am more upset at what could have been than at what was done.
Still time I am getting back on the hope train. Fedotenko and Turco and I will be happy again. Life is too short and more importantly summmer is too long to be upset for more than 24 hours lets focus on the positive and move on.
Again, how hard is it to improve upon Asham, Krajicek, and Parent? Those are the departing members of this club.
But let’s look at the positive! Paul Holmgren was able to spend $10 million replacing those three! At least they’re better!
It’s crap. I will stay mad at Holmgren because he has no idea how to operate in a salary cap. I don’t give a shit that the team is better since it’s virtually impossible to not improve on the team when those three are the players that leave.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
1) Maybe
2) Yes
3) Yes
And 3 is the problem.
In 1, if you sign a cheaper 3rd pairing guy you get Zherdev + Foster/Morris for sake of argument + Gagne, which is greater than what is there. That’s the point. And that’s why we get so frustrated with you. That’s great if you are a glass half full with this. But it seems you are finally turning a corner with the whole you like Meszaros but not his cap hit sentiment. The thing is, this team could be in much better shape.
Think of it this way Scenario A, is really only good if you ignore the better Scenarios B, C, and D. So it’s hard to be excited with A, when there were far better ways to handle this team, a team that was a shoot out loss away from missing the playoffs.
That’s why you drive me nuts sometimes, I just got excited b/c you seemed to turn a corner there, but no. Look, I’ll just respect the fact you wanna cover your shit with some perform and call it roses, that’s fine…you have a better general outlook than me clearly. But I’m going to focus on the total reality of the situation.
That’s clearly not to me…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
No, arguable, yes.
Here’s the problem: if you’re plugging Meszaros in the third pairing, how much impact can he have? He’s not getting enough minutes to make up the difference between Zherdev and a healthy Gagne. And if his giveaway problem is anything like Tampa fans are hinting, that move might have been lateral at best.
I guess I’d ask why the Pens are letting Rusty go for any price we can afford. The same reason I’d stay away from Guerin and Poni frighten me about Tonks.
At the end of that phenomenal playoff run we need 3 things. Upgraded 3rd D pair, a scoring winger, and a legitimate goaltender.
We got the upgrade on D (and then some). But he went WAY overboard. No goalie, and now we’re back where started on winger.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
GMPH gets credit for acquiring Carle? He gave up Downie, who just had a huge season. The only reason he was trading for Carle was because he just gave up John Carlson for Steve Eminger. Carle was damage control, but it still was costly.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Exactly my point.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Could you expand on Downie having a huge season?
by TopShelfTony on Jul 19, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
22-24-46 with 208 PIM. That sounds exactly like the player PHI drafted him to be. It wasn’t a “Hart trophy nomination huge” kind of season, but he nearly doubled his previous best season as a pro, and that was 25 points in the AHL. He also scored more points this year than the rest of his NHL career combined. Maybe huge wasn’t the right word, breakout may be more accurate depending on how he follows it up.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Thought that’s what you had in mind. To be fair, he played a bunch with a couple of guys who had HUGE seasons. Numbers 5 and 6 in scoring I believe. And a fair bit of PP time too. Look out for those two and #4 this year.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 19, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt he had help. But what kind of player is Downie supposed to be? He was never meant to carry a line. He was going to be asked to do the dirty work and crash the net. That’s exactly how he did it, and that’s why he earned that PP time. We’ll see how he fits with the new coaching staff, but I’m sure most people didn’t see him putting up 20 goals and being the tough support staff on the top line when he was traded.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
If you look up some of his goals on youtube they are very impressive. Tocchet had a real short leash on him last year and it payed off. I wonder if the new coach will be able to keep him level headed.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Well, I have no documented proof…but I did. I always knew he had the ability if he would just stop the craziness. Of course it’s hard to shed a rep once you have it. I just think he was one of those guys who fit the cliche about needing a change of scenery. Oh yeah, the boy can play.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 19, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I never thought he’d get his head right, to be honest. I’m still not sure I’m convinced.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Know what you mean. But I think Marty and Stamkos are in his head now, and having Stevie Y watching from the big chair up there in the team box doesn’t hurt. That team is going to be the most improved in the league this year I think. Going to make some noise.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 19, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The should be, but I’ll believe it when I see it with that franchise.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
If they do improve greatly it should benefit the Caps, right?
by TopShelfTony on Jul 19, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know how TBL being credible helps the Caps at all. Are you itching for the Isles to get their shit together?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
That which does not kill me makes me stronger, or however that goes. The competition will be good for them.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 19, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh. They’ll make the playoffs regardless and they should still win the division without much trouble. It will all come down to whether they can get their heads out of their asses in the spring time. Again.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Still with the playoff meme. Sigh. Well, at least you changed your tag line. I like this one better, though I doubt EF could catch an old lady if she tried to get away. Pretty pudgy for 40 there EF!
by TopShelfTony on Jul 19, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha. It’s always going to be about the playoffs. Especially now with this team. The regular season is meaningless for them now.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
They’ll be there. Patience. It’ll be well worth waiting for.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 19, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I love how Homer said on at least two occasions that he was looking for not only this year, but next year. Really? Because Gagne is due for a raise next year?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 5:03 PM EDT reply actions
Carter’s due for a raise next year (unfortunately). Giroux is, and so is Leino. Not an awful argument, quite frankly — unless he specifically tied his reason to a future Gagne contract?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
If you’re looking at next year (which he said he was) how do you justify moving the only guy not due a fairly hefty raise?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Because, as we’ve discussed before, Jeff Carter is the best hockey player in the history of the world. Plus he’s a center! (ignore the part where he’s probably not going to be playing center this year)
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Oh, I forgot. Carter = Gretzky.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If you are looking to the future how do you even talk about Meszaros?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Homer says he thinks Meszaros will become a legitimate part of the team’s core for years to come.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
And he better be given that term. I personally don’t buy it, and looking at the guys you have in the system and under contract was it really a need? Pronger and Timonen will be around for a little while (or longer) and you have Carle and Coburn still developing. How many core D can a team afford to keep?
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Before crucifying Meszaros…
While I know he struggled trying to be the #3 in Tampa, I think he will flourish in Lavvy’s system being paired with O’Donnell. And I think the veteran presence of Pronger,O’Donnell & Timmonen will help mature him into the player that he has shown glimpses of being capable of becoming…
On a side note: Everyone is blasting his contract. I know 4M/year is quite a bit, but we have to remember this is/was the same money we were throwing at Hamhuis to come be our #4 or #5 (depending where Coburn was paired)…So it’s really a wash, EXCEPT for the draft pick.
That being said, if Homer wanted to diffuse the growing discontent among Flyer Faithful, he should have traded Gagne to Tampa for our 2nd Round Pick back…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
I don’t think we were throwing that kind of money at Hamhuis. But even if we were, we shouldn’t have been. Oh, and Hamhuis is probably better than Meszaros.
I don’t think a lot of people are crucifying Meszaros; they are crucifying Homer for taking on that contract for your third pairing, regardless of whether he’s worth money. Actually, that’s one of the few things I’m excited about: how good can Meszaros be in a limited role?
Atlantic Division GMs
NJD – Lou Lam
PIT – Ray Shero
NYI – Garth Snow
PHI – Homer
NYR – Sather
That’s how I think they rank up. Outside of maybe the job Sutter is doing unraveling CAL, or the CHI Marlins firesale, there arent many instances of worse Gm’ing. So I’d say Sutter and Slats are def worse, but I’m struggling to think of more. Even the placeholder in PHX looks like a freaking genius in comparison. I guess if you were hardcore in MTL and banged up over losing Halak, you might vote that way.
Seravalli just said he sees no reason why the Flyers can’t make an offer to Turco for “one and a quarter”.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 5:09 PM EDT reply actions
He’s right. Homer could totally do that.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Right. And Turco signing it?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a whole other thing entirely.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
2 yrs at $2M per if we waive Cote and send Boosh down and flip Walker to someone who needs to reach the cap floor or is on heavy pain meds.
So you sign three goalies to two-year deals in the same summer?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
long enough to hold the fort until one of the prospects is ready
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You need three goalies to do that? You realize that prevents the prospects from actually playing in the AHL, right? How are they to be ready when they are a backup in the AHL or an ECHL starter?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Would Turco sign a 1 year? Would Backlund et al be ready next year? Probably not to both.
Boucher gets buried in the AHL as insurance and as the emergency call up for the Flyers (we seemed to do that a lot around here) and Backlund gets the bulk of the time at Adirondack.
Turco and Lights Out probably platoon / go with the hot hand.
I would’ve preferred Homer acted in a more straight forward manner to get to where he (hopefully) will end up, moving Gagne for the cap space to sign a better goalie behind an improved blue line. It’s a clusterf****d way to do it, but the end result might (hopefully) be the same.
The risks:
Mez is the TB guy and not the OTT guy from a few years back.
Zherdev goes mental on us a la his time in CMB.
We’ve continued to deal or let scoring walk the last two years (Knuble, Gagne) and we’ve painted ourselves into the trapezoid (see what I did there?) with the NTC’s and mis-management of the cap. So we need to move one of those other salaries (Hartnell would be ideal, but the $5m and NTC say prolly not) to gain some trade flexibility by the deadline. I’m less worried about our team if we pull in Turco. We’ve still got decent scoring depth, enough blue line depth and then a decent goalie. On paper it looks stronger.
GD – I wont argue that Homer has been ham handed. But this is salvageable.
So you put Boucher in the AHL, then don’t even play him? And if you do that, how does Bobrovsky or Riopel or Stewart get playing time? In this scenario, there’s no way they’re ready next year.
But I’d disagree with your first statement and say Backlund is probably ready for backup duty this year. Turco/Backlund is probably good enough, if shallow. But you’re kidding yourself if you think having Turco, Leighton, Boucher, and Backlund does any good for the organization. Bobrovsky, Riopel, Stewart, Morrison, and Eriksson need to play. The last two aren’t a problem since they aren’t being blocked by three backup goalies, but you can’t have Bobrovsky, Riopel, and Stewart not playing.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no problem not playing Boucher. If he has some trade value, deal him. Though with how our GM operates I’d be curious if we got anything more than an equipment manager to be named later.
Backlund playing everyday (AHL)gives him another year to be solid. Case in point, look how long DET kept Howard down. We’ve been hearing about that kid being their next starter for years, and it wasn’t until midseason this year.
If Bobrovsky can impress and make the jump/adjustment to NA rinks this year, great. If any of these young guys work out great, but this organizations ability to develop young goaltending talent is suspect. You guys sell a tshirt stating the same.
In other words, Backlund this year as a rookie backup to an aging veteran (again, all predicated on signing Turco) for a team that was 2 wins from a Cup seems risky. Leighton didn’t inspire confidence when his initial signing was announced, but played well enough to get us that close. Your tagline indicates you’re a Boosh fan, I guess cause he’s got a chantable nickname, but with Turco he’s the third/fourth goalie on the org chart. His salary has to go regardless, either in the AHL or straight waiver. If you’re concerned the young guys wont get time, it’s adios Boosh and one of them backs up Backlund.
Just ask yourself what’s more likely – if they can cut ties to Gagne, where does that leave Boucher?
could do up to 2.5 million if cote, boosh, and walker aren’t on the roster and powe is. i’ve done the math
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd sign turco for $1.25
meh. whatever. couldn’t hurt that much, could it? I mean, i feel pretty steeled for every move ever going forward after Gags & McNabb & Westbrook all changed teams in one fell summer.
My point is that $1.25 million is ridiculously low. Ridiculously low.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
eh it's possible
Zherdev @ $2m was thought to be ridiculously low too
Turco wasn’t exiled from the NHL at like 25 for being lazy.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
yeah but he was exiled to UFA for sucking
and that exile is ongoing
Sure. But it’s not like there were a ton of reasonable opportunities for him. Just about every team is looking for a player with Zherdev’s skill every offseason. Only a few teams were looking for a starting goalie this offseason, and there is/was a larger number of mediocre to half-decent goalies than there were teams.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
i think this supports my notion
that $1.25m is a deal Turco might sign (approximately). It’s here or nada, and $1.25m a year for 1 year or 2 years is a heck of a lot better than nothing else. Not even the KHL is sniffing him from anything I’ve read, and KHL will take any 2 cent hooker.
Yeah. I agree. He might end up taking a one-year deal with a dollar figure like that. He’s not going to the KHL, that’s for sure.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
i love agreeing on stuff
it’s the best. too bad we lost gagne today otherwise i might be in a good mood!
would getting Turco today for cheap lessen the blow?
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think his exile is mainly the same reason Nabby went to KHL…no one is going to pay him what he WANTS…
We couldn’t sign him for 2-2.5M previously, is a 3 week job hunt going to cause him to lower his demands down to allow us to offer 1/2 what we offered before?
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
in the real world? no
in hockey world? well… stranger things have happened.
cote, boosh, walker not on the roster. add in powe for 700k and you can add Turco for up to as much as 2.5 million and have comfort zone
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been skulking on Capgeek
It does seem that entering the season with 8(+) defensemen seems silly, so what teams would be in the market for a decent NHL defenseman like Meszaros or Walker? Seems to me there are a number of them – some more appealing than others. FOR EXAMPLE, Bobby Ryan is still an unsigned RFA in Anaheim. Their starting goalie is Jonas Hillier – not exactly confidence inspiring. They only have 5 defensemen under contract.
And:
2010-11 PHILADELPHIA FLYERS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Jeff Carter ($5.000m) / Claude Giroux ($0.822m)
- Bobby Ryan ($3.600m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.167m)
Riley Cote ($0.550m) / * Darroll Powe ($0.520m)
DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.438m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m) / Sean O\’Donnell ($1.300m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) / Johan Backlund ($0.800m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 23; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $58.180m; CAP ROOM: $2.158m; BONUSES: $0.938m
I realize I’m idealizing, but that’s really my whole point in the post – there are possibilities out there to make this work for real! In fact, that scenario may even leave enough $ to sign Turco to a one year deal.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
i think you're looking at trading Carle for Ryan.
Probably more.
Ryan’s not going anywhere. The only thing he and Anaheim are still working on is the number of years — they’re in rough agreement about the money. Ryan wants a shorter term deal because he thinks he’ll be worth as soon as he can hit the open market, etc.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
There are plenty of other options ...
Acquiring Andy Ladd from Atlanta, perhaps. Or any number of other players – again, Holmgren is playing from behind the 8-ball since everyone knows he doesn’t want 8 defensemen any more than he wanted to be over the cap, but at least there are possibilities.
I’m trying to stay positive here, dammit. I still say keeping Carter is just not sane, and trading Gagne borders on clinically depressive with self-destructive manifestation.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Flyers moves leave me scratching my head to the point of baldness
From BehindtheNet
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
ugh sigh. money thrown down the toilet
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t mind the cash, it’s the cap management. Now Mr Snider might mind the cash, but that aint my concern.
we miss you already gags. will never be forgotten, especially after the boston series
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, fuelling the tears.
Has anyone seen Dragongirl today?
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Was wondering that myself..posted earlier
by JerseyDriver on Jul 19, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And the team dumped that guy like he was garbage. Un-friggin’-believable
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ll always be a Flyer to us, Simon.
(Please come back ASAP – thank you.)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 19, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Gagne on waiving his no-trade clause: “But as time went on, I pretty much had no choice.”
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Yup. Rather than refuse the trade and deal with management’s scorn for a year, possibly teammates’ scorn for whoever had to be moved instead (Carter), and maybe even coaches’ scorn, he decided to go somewhere he’ll be respected.
Dan Boyle…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
…is a slew-footing douche bag.
But yes, apt comparison. I’ve always respected Gagne and it’s a shame it had to go out this way. None of us really know what the locker room dynamic would have been if Gagne refused to waive his NTC, but it’s a valid concern. I’d be much more concerned that management would feel retaliatory than either the coach or players. GMPH seems just dumb enough to think “damn Gagne, he’s making me look bad” if Gagne refused to waive his NTC.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
Yeah, that’s the big concern.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Video of Homer’s press conference with the TV media.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
“It’s a team I always thought… where I would fit in,” Walker said. “It’s great to be going back to a hockey town and to play for a team that’s always had a certain reputation and a certain style of play. When I talked to everybody in my family – my brother and my dad are big int hockey – they were excited too. I don’t think it could be better. It really worked out well.”
That link from SanFilippo has some great Gagne quotes, too.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
too bad you might not see much if any ice time with this team Matt, well unless Homer trades another better defenseman away like an idiot
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So let’s say Homer does manage to get Turco to sign for a minimal amount…that gives us 8 defensemen, 3 starting goalies and still a problem with forwards?
Oh and cap hell…
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
3 starters? I thought we already had 3 backups and no starter.
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
On the bright side (?), at least we don’t have to wait long to see him again. First game against Tampa is October 14.
Oooh, and it’s a home game. Here’s hoping Versus doesn’t latch onto it just for the sake of carrying the game (not for the sake of actually paying attention to the reason behind it being such a sentimental game).
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I hope he scores a hat trick.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Anyone heard from Dragon Girl? …she posted this morning but haven’t seen her since the trade. Just want to make sure she isn’t preparing for harri-carri
Haha, I’m alive and well, thanks for the concern. I was at work when the news broke and then away from a computer until late last night; but it took me all day today to muster the will to come here even though I was home.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 20, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I am virtously speechless, WTF I just got home from a hockey tourny for my kid and Gags is traded for a Fucking bag of pucks, really Homer. I want to go in to a complete tirade my vote on the new confidence poll will be very low. I’m going to get some beer fuck this . Simon, you have been my favorite player for 10 yrs good luck my friend, Homer Fuck off.
A bag of pucks would’ve been better. They probably wouldn’t have taken up 1.7 mil in cap space
by mantis toboggan on Jul 19, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
After a beer, and reading Homer’s teleconference interview, I feel a little better about this. I will surely miss Gagne, but he has been riddled with injuries, and it’s not like we don’t still have scoring depth. If Hartsy, Leino, Giroux, JVR, Carter, Briere, and Zherdev play shitty then were f*cked, but it’s a team sport right?
As for the goalie situation, If Leighton can learn keep his stick on the ice that would be great. Also those TPS reports.
Remember last season when the Flyers were firing on all cylinders? It was like they could have thrown Cote in the net and he would have had shutouts. I’m trying to be optimistic here, alright?
by Ponchos FromPeru on Jul 19, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, get a grip
The move was done to free up 3.5 mil in cap space.Done
Walker or another D-man will probably used in another deal. Sheesh….
Cap space that was needed after making moronic moves.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
and lessened by bringing in a $1.7 million 7th defenseman.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
We got a team that can compete. The next move I suppose is to bring in a goaltender.
I wouldn’t wanna play the Flyers in 2010. It’s gonna be a solid season.
by Gonzotatcics on Jul 19, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
When don’t we have a team that can compete? Is that really the defense of Holmgren? Hey, he made a ton of moves and… is exactly where he was last year…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing like coming home to this after being isolated at work all day
I can’t say I am surprised though or even disappointed. Something like this is about what I expected. That’s not to say it is a good trade, it is not, but it was a necessary won where Paul Holmgren could not have had any less leverage if he tried (and he seemingly did try all he could to ensure he had less leverage).
All the best to Simon playing in Tampa. Hopefully above all else he stays clear of injury.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
Not a good defense for this move though. He had no leverage because he put himself in that spot.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
I think you misunderstood my wording.
I am not defending the move, I am just saying something like this is what I had been expecting, thus I am not really surprised or disappointed in that I expected more for Gagne. Homer put the team over the cap, thus eliminating his leverage and I was being funny/sarcastic by suggesting that Homer did everything possible to ensure there was no leverage in this deal.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
Uhhh… Burritto?
I blame tears and drinking to forget the day’s trades for misreading.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
It’s no problem. After I published it, I realized it could be a bit awkward. Plus I stupidly typed “necessary won” instead of “necessary one.” I blame the waking up at 6 in the morning…..
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
Totally off topic, but if this is true...
KHL Pres Medvedev told Sovetsky Sport he discussed purchasing an NHL club with the NHL.
I’d love to see Daly and Bettman’s careful screening of him as a potential owner.
Bettman: Do you plan on moving this team to Canada?
Medvedev: No, I plan on moving it to Ru—
Bettman: Sold.
Medvedev: But you probably don’t want me moving the team to Rus—
Bettman: What don’t you understand about sold? You said you weren’t going to move the team to Canada, I told you I accept your generous offer of negative $17 for the Phoenix Coyotes.
Medvedev: Great, then.
Bettman: …Umm, can I pay you in McDonald’s coupons? I’m kind of out of real money and the Knicks scored more than 100 points at the game I was at last night, so I can get you a free Egg McMuffin.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
by Ben Feldman on Jul 20, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
wow
this really hurts. i remember feeling like this when i got dumped by a chick who gave me butterflies when we held hands. i really thought carter was going somewhere for a winger and picks. does Homer make these decisions alone? isn’t it better to have a committee? isn’t that how the allies won the war? WTF is going on? why not 2 draft picks instead of a d-man we don’t need? how about shopping around once the post-kovy afterglow wore off? isn’t 1.7 mil too much for a guy in the minors when bartulis is meant to be our 7th? I want to mope and ask myself why i need to love this team? Gagne was a huge part of that love. I need to be happy for Simon and just keep thinking of kerr, leclair, lappy, danny, pronger, leighton…
Bobby Clarke needs to go!
That’s right Bob. I see you whispering in Homer’s ear. “Get a goon”, you said. “Goalies are over-rated.”
When will it end?
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Wow
What a day. What I will say is that this is just another example of the Flyers not planning for the future and only thinking about the now. Then I have to hear/read the same BS about the Cliff Lee trade and how he should still be here in Philly instead of Halladay, when RAJ was attempting to think of the future instead of just “the now” and no one’s happy about that, either. When are the folks in this city ever happy?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Was that rhetorical question? You know you’re in Philly, right? ;)
by JerseyDriver on Jul 19, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
To clarify
RAJ did the difficult thing and moved a much-loved and desired commodity to attempt to restock the farm, and even though he should have waited to get the best deal available (the are well-established reports that the Yanks offered Montero for him and it would appear the Phils didn’t want to trade with the NYY for PR reasons, which is just crap), I can get behind the impetus of the trade. Blanton would net you nothing. You could salary dump him, much like what the Flyers did here with Gagne, but then you don’t solve your problem and then your rotation for 2011 and beyond is Hamels, Kendrick and maybe Drabek, FA, FA.
Here Homer refuses to do the difficult thing in trading Carter, which will most definitely hurt, but would net you the most in trade and have the most available trade partners. And now we will go through this all over again next off-season because GMPH did not adequately address the issue.
You can’t blast one for not doing the thing you blast the other for…
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I see your point and I agree entirely. But I liked the Lee trade.
In fact, someone emailed me earlier about the connection between them and my response was that the Phillies upgraded from Lee to Halladay, and replaced those they sent to Toronto by trading Lee. The Flyers went – at best – sideways in Gagne to Zherdev, and then got nothing in return.
Long story: I agree with you.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
What in all these moves makes you think he was planning for “Now”?
At the end of the playoffs, I seriously thought that with some minor tweaks we could be back strong next year in the playoffs. Now, I’m not so sure we haven’t done a lot of moving for very little result. Moving for the “now” would have given us a better goalie and another scoring winger.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Well, that’s all I can think of, because he sure as hell isn’t planning for the future.
Quite frankly, I don’t think he really has a plan, period.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Here Homer refuses to do the difficult thing in trading Carter
What if GMPH did want to trade Carter and Ed said no?
I guess we’ll never know for sure. They should have done it at last year’s trade deadline, sort of like the Phillies should have done with Lee at this year’s deadline if things weren’t going well for the team.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
There was an interview with Ed someone posted for me a while back where he said pretty much that any big name trades had to be cleared with him. I also thought that the well-quoted line about Carter not going anywhere sounded like Ed more than anybody else. But this is all just supposition and speculation on my part. You’re right, we’ll probably never know for sure.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 19, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t understand why the younger less injury prone and more productive player in Carter gets absolutely zero respect on this site. I miss Gagne and I am not happy about the move but Carter is a stud.
He does get respect, and in a world where Paul Holmgren could manage a salary cap, you keep him and build a team around him. But in the real world, where GMPH cannot understand the CBA, there will be several cap casualties. I have no interest in losing Carter, but I have zero interest in dumping good players for a bag of pucks, especially when our farm is so thin and we constantly have to build through free agency.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
by doubleh on Jul 19, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This, plus Carter has shown no capacity to play wing. After the playoffs, we seem set at center. Gags is a wing, and a good one. The Flyers needed one more wing in the off season, so if you trade Carter, get a wing (and perhaps more) you are filling a hole. Besides, you dump MORE salary, and next year, when they both are FA, Gags might be willing as a team player and life long Flyer to take a slight pay cut to stay. Don’t think Carter will.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 19, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Because Gagne played with heart, and basically won us the Boston series, where Carter is an immature drunk who only cares about money and ass. I went out and bought a Carter jersey two seasons ago to, so he had to have been a real bitch for me to turn on him so fast.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
At least your jersey is still relevant. I owned a Gagne jersey for one month before he was traded
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
fuck that
i hate that jersey, I got a JVR jersey last year. I also have three Gagne jerseys, granted all of them are worn out.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
Yeah I’m going to buy a Giroux one now. I don’t know what to do with my #12
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
while homer is GM
nobody is safe
Homer: so how much do you think your worth Giroux?
Giroux: Well, since Players like Coburn are getting 3.2 for less of a role on the team, hows 3.5 sound?
Homer: how does Edmonton sound? I just traded you there. we think your a great player, but we decided to give Carter a 20 year, $700 million deal.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
and BTW
for Giroux, we got Jim Vandameer back and a 3rd round pick
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
“We made this move because in order to upgrade on our fourth defensive pairing. We think Jim is a physical player who will really help us stop Panaccio from getting drunk in the press box and will make sure Carchidi doesn’t get close to Richards in the dressing room.”
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
by Ben Feldman on Jul 20, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
(also got mine a month ago. Made a deal with myself after game 3 of the Boston series that if the Flyers made the comeback on Gagne’s return I would pop a good section of paycheck for a #12.)
That is awful. I didn’t get to wear mine while he played any games. I ordered it at the start of the playoffs and it took so damned long to get here.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Carter just wanted to play his proper role, instead of being shoehorned by management into a role that he hates. I don’t blame the guy. It must suck to sign a contract for years of your time, and then be informed that you won’t get to play in a way that makes you passionate about your position. That’s management’s fault. They knew he thought of himself as a center, and if someone decided to screw with a formula that was working, that’s the management’s fault, not Carter’s.
by spokeinthebandwagon on Jul 20, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there are some who say he shrinks in the playoffs. But not me. I think he’s a very good player. In fact I think the respect he gets is partially why some people said he’d be traded. think about it… He’s a 40 goal scorer, young and a solid two way center. People have been asking after him for a while now. He’s worth quite a bit.
He’s also on a team with 4 lines and 5 centers that was (and still is) in need of a scoring winger and a goalie.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
I was under the impression Mr. Snider didn’t really say no to stuff the entire front office proposed (because that means he’s lost trust in them or something, etc. etc.), but that’s an awfully scary thought.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
by Ben Feldman on Jul 20, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
after reflecting on it
Homer only had 1 good trade, and that was the whole forsberg fiasco when he first started. so in three years, hes been useless.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
keep reflecting after sleep
- acquired V. Leino
- acquired 3rd rounder for Parent
- acquired Chris Pronger
- acquired Matt Carle
… to list a few other good deals
Lenio still needs to have a good regular season before we judge him
Parent was also a former 1st rounder
Pronger, while very good, is also a 35 year old that we gave up 3 first round picks for (main reason why Gagne, a 30 year old, should have neted at least one 1st rounder)
Carel and Downie are even
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
come now
that’s not a great reason. Pronger is leagues ahead of Gagne value wise, he’s got none of the injury history and is one of the top 5 defensemen in the league still. Shelf life on Gagne is probably about the same as for Pronger, and Pronger is a lot better.
Using the Pronger trade (a top 5 NHL defenseman) as a proxy for the Gagne trade (a top 6 forward on most teams, but maybe top 20 at LW) is silly.
And also, Leino is a good trade no matter what he does this year. We traded absolutely nada for a guy who helped carry the team to a SC appearance. That’s a win, even if Leino sucks and is sent to the AHL this year.
Carle and Downie are nowhere near even. Carle is developing into Timonen 2.0. Downie is good, but will never be great.
Lastly, I don’t follow your Parent logic. Because he was a former 1st round pick (who is in the process of being a “bust”), he should get better than nothing? People here were ecstatic at the thought of obtaining anything for Parent, let alone a pretty solid pick.
We have no cup and lost 2 1st rd picks, Sbisa. But at least we got Dingle and unloaded Upshall on the Yotes
by Crosby sucks on Jul 19, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You place our stanley cup loss on the shoulders of Homer?
That’s so funny, cause from this end of the spectrum
1) I never saw him lace up and skate in the SCF
2) Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Homer, like, put that team together and stuff? Maybe I’m crazy.
Yes, this was a shitty trade, but until pretty much today people gave Homer credit for making great trades and bad FA signings. Neither of those seem fair. He makes pretty good trades, and makes okay FA signings. Is he the best in the business? No, but he ain’t bad.
Even after today, Sather is still the worst GM in the league.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t place the loss on him. But I totally disagree with this trade , the Randy Jones handling, and Upshall. If you are going to acquire a player like Pronger, pay dearly for it only a Cup will do. He put himself in a bad spot, a spot that TB took advantage of us. If you don’t sign Shelley, trade for Mezaros and Walker($6.8 mil). I would keep Gagne over all 3 of those guys, sign a guy like Jay McKee if you don’t think Bartulis is a capable 7 dman. We have too many centers and Carter will be asking for a raise where as Gagne could come cheaper. And Carter is not the picture of the most healthy player either played 62 and 74 games in a season in the last the 5 years. What does the next 5 bring , more health problems. If the point of getting rid of Gagne cap hit why take back $1.7 and lose a nearly point per game player
by Crosby sucks on Jul 19, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer runs hot and cold with me. The deals you mention? All of them great. But then he overloads on defensemen and tough guys and goes cheap YET AGAIN on goaltending. No matter what you think of his ability to grade players, I argue that he is abysmal with cap issues.
But, honestly, I was mad at him for wasting his opportunity to trade Carter for Vokoun last year. At the time, I thought the Flyers wouldn’t make the playoffs — they made the finals. So what the heck do I know?
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m probably a lot closer to agreeing with you than disagreeing, but I’ll tweak it to:
Almost any good trade Holmgren has made was either the result of a) it falling in his lap (i.e. Leino); or b) correcting for a past mistake (i.e. Carle for Downie, Eminger, and Carlson).
But I’ll also give him Coburn for Zhitnik.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
what about the Forsberg trade? basically got Parent (that didn’t work out), Upshall (traded him for Carcillo), and Kimmo and Hartnell (after sending Nashville back their picks). So we basically got Carcillo, 3rd round pick, Kimmo, and Hartnell for two months of forsberg
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
My sons Go GO Gadget Gagne shirt arrived today and then I had to tell him he was traded to TB. Happy Birthday son your favorite Flyer is gone.
well there’s a silver lining in all this, i can get my gf her gagne jersey for cheap
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Please read all of Geoff's posts; check out Stevie Y's presser
Since Geoff’s posts are pretty much in full agreement with what mine would be (well, except for the Lee trade, but that is technically off-topic anyway) it is mostly redundant for me to post.
I have to actually do real-world kind of stuff tonight, but I hope to do a fanpost on Stevie Y’s conference later tonight. If I don’t get a chance to do this, or even if I do, it will be an eye-opener. Unfortunately, I don’t have a link, I heard on NHL Home ice this afternoon.
Heads up, Geoff/Travis/Ben R: you guys REALLY need to listen to this.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
What are the chances that we see one of Matt Carle, Coburn, or Meszaros traded? Carle is the most likely of the three right?
No way they trade Meszos weeks after trading for him. I’ve thought Carle is trade bait for awhile. LA needs a puckmoving D-man.
by memphisbrando on Jul 19, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
do not want to trade carle. that’s just silly and a downgrade. he is our third best defenseman and would be a #2 on most teams.
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If you look up Matt Walker on yahoo sports, his only picture is Gagne, thats how bad he is.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
http://www.csnphilly.com/07/19/10/Boruk-What-Gagne-Was-Really-Thinking/landing.html?blockID=273982&feedID=695
interesting article. Kings were never in on it but Detroit and Montreal were. Lightning initiated trade. Gagne wanted to stay in the east and go to a team with cap space so he didnt have to deal with crap like this
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 10:09 PM EDT reply actions
For me, the worst part was the long term plan that Boruk thinks Gagne has, ie; He’s not coming back.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Yeah I’m afraid that is going to happen. I had hope that he may someday come back, but he seems like he’s pissed at us for trading him in this manner when he had a NTC and wants a long term deal to stay somewhere. I do wish him the best of luck for the rest of his career.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 20, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Lost in all of this is that I honestly wish I had the heart to boycott this team until Homer was fired. And this isn’t about Gagne, as much as I loved him as a Flyer this isn’t about him. This is about the situation Homer put himself and his team in because he is seemingly incapable of doing his joke properly. This is about one man paying for another man’s stupidity. A guy who still has value, has heart, was a veteran leader and a great community guy. All because we signed asshats like Shelley and Carcillo. I would rather them both suiting up for the Rags or the Pens than see a guy like Gagne get traded because of their salaries. This is because when a player blows he is held accountable, he can be traded, benched, sent down the the AHL but when a guy like Homer blows at his job, what happens? A guy like Gagne gets traded. I want so badly to say F*ck Homer and F*ck this team but instead I will settle for the less devastating but all the while painful F*ck me, and my undying somewhat masochistic love for this team.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
by EREX21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
joke = job…Freudian slip much
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Agreed 1,000,000%.
I want to say fuck-it-all and join my wife in not caring about hockey. But, goddammit, I just can’t bring myself to pull the trigger. (metaphorically speaking, don’t get worried)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
To try to lighten the mood a bit, guess what movie Channel 6 aired late, late night last night (or rather, this morning)? “Youngblood”. Fantastic!
Then I dreamed last night about Gagne and had no idea why…thought it was because I watched a hockey movie. Now I know.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Carter never said he didn't wanna play left wing, right?
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Jeff Carter ($5.000m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($0.821m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)
Riley Cote ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Sean O’Donnell ($1.300m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) /Brian Boucher ($0.925m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,584,763; BONUSES: $937,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,752,737
If Bartulis gets dropped for Walker, I will flip out. A lot of this season will ride on Carter playing ok in a wing position and Zherdev actually being an upgrade over Asham.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Wait wait wait
The bottom should be this
GOALTENDERS
Johan Backlund ($0.800m) /Michael Leighton ($1.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,459,763; BONUSES: $937,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,877,737
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
silly question: If Flyers wait until August 13th to sign Turco (his 35th birthday) would that be a 35+ contract? could they then put it all into bonuses
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 10:52 PM EDT reply actions
No, it goes by how old he was on June 30th before the season the deal begins.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
ah ok so no bonus laden deal with low base salary then
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Simon Gagne awesomeness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrlzDiZEfFY
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
you know what will make it worse…realizing how bad leighton looks in that 1st pd. 5-hole is terrible
by historywillbemade on Jul 19, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
but then again if you watch the end you where it says 2:10 in the 3rd giroux is just beastly working in the corner
by historywillbemade on Jul 20, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually loled at the part where Giroux successfully fought off three Bruins in the offensive zone for about 20 seconds.
holy christ is giroux good. that kid is something else
by historywillbemade on Jul 20, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
He is. I always am just flat out amazed whenever he has the puck. I always say to myself “this has to be one of the best puck handlers ever”. He is going to be amazing and I want Homer to lock him up for 15 years at a great cap hit so he never leaves.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 20, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
get that man a Richards like contract with a smaller cap hit. pronto
by historywillbemade on Jul 20, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
This better lead to something good!!
Its obvious to me Yzerman made Homer take some salary in return for taking on Gags salary. So I truly hope he plans on either sending Walker down or waiving him along with Cote and Boucher which would free up more than enough space to sign Turco.This the only scenario I’ll accept in return for trading one of the most loved and feared players on this team and I might ad the acquisition of Zherdev and Mesaros better pan out as well or I will become a Homer Hater!! Up until this off season I’ve given him the benefit of the doubt….NO MORE!!
screw that I'm geting my number 12 jersey now
before they stop making them and then hang it up on my wall with some ofther BAMF flyer players. this whole offseason sucks. we should have dropped carcillo after the shelley pick up. shelley can’t score, so i would have traded carter for another wing who is bigger to be a physical pressense and can score. carter flopped in the post season, and gagne know’s how to score under pressure
...yay
The thing that sucks worse about this is that we gave $3.2 million to Coburn
Granted, I may be a little biased cuz I think Coburn is WAY overrated, but what would you rather have: Coburn and Jody Shelley or Gagne? Think about it, 3.2 million for Coburn + 1.3 for Shelley= 4.5 million. 5.25 million for Gagne – 1.7 million for Walker= 3.55 million. That is all we saved by trading away Gags and taking on Walker. I would’ve much rather just let Coburn walk. Meszaros is probably slightly better than Coburn and he would’ve been a fine partner to pair with Timonen at #2 defense. I would’ve been able to live with Bartulis and O’Donnell at #3 if that meant keeping Gagne. Then we could’ve kept the Briere line together, have an awesome line of Gags/Richie/Zherdev and put Carts on the wing with JVR and Giroux to give Claude someone more talented to play with… Plus, on top of that, by not taking on Coburn, Shelly and Walker (and just keeping Gagne) we would have had a bit of extra $ on top to maybe get a better goalie/get a different #6 than Bartulis/get a slightly better player than O’Donnell if you want, etc… It just seems like such a simple fix yet for some reason Homer got a hard-on for getting all these awesome D-Men but its not gonna matter if Leighton is your goalie and your team can’t score.
Re-signing Coburn was important, and it didn’t directly lead to Gagne needing to be moved.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
yeh not the problem
defense was going high so Coburn was getting paid. Acquiring Meszo for 4 million was a much worse error. Even with defense going high there was no need to trade for that contract, better off signing a guy like Foster for 2.1 million.
But even so Meszo would have been allowable, had we not resigned Leighton, Carcillo, or signed Shelley. Say we gave Zerdev his 2 million. Btwn Leighton and Carcillo and Shelley that’s about 3.95 million right there that didnt have to happen. Just resign Powe for like 700,000 to play 4th line RW. I think we could still have signed Turco for cheap and kept Gagne, i could be wrong with that math.
Homer gave money to players this team didnt need anymore or at all and that’s why we didnt improve on the wing (you can say Zerdev>Gagne, but we needed Zerdev + Gagne, not one or the other) or why we didnt improve in net.
a bunch of terrible decisions led to gagne being moved. The money Coburn got and the Meszo was questionable, the Zerdev and Odonnell moves were good. Everythign else was god awful.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 21, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
why was it important?
Coburn isn’t even that good… Granted it didn’t cause Gagne to get moved right away, but we still could’ve saved ourselves a few million by not singing coburn and shelley. Not singing those two would’ve allowed us to keep Gagne and have a bit left over for Turco or whoever…
by FooFighter1124 on Jul 22, 2010 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions
My problem here is that after rereading CSN’s articles, I don’t think it matters who Homer signed, I’m starting to believe he made this decision long before signing anyone.
Back to the article from Monday announcing the trade:
“I was expecting it because of all that has happened in the last few weeks,” Gagne said. “The Flyers asked me to waive my no-trade clause maybe about a month ago. At that point I was not quite ready to do that. But as time went on, I pretty much had no choice. But to hear today that I was traded is still a little bit of shock for me. It’s the first time that I have been traded.”I don’t think Gags has no concept of time and thinks the 4th of July was a month ago; but a month before Monday was the draft. That gives me the impression Homer made this decision a long time ago, and proceeded to force Gagne into it when he didn’t immediately agree. Maybe I’m wrong, but if they asked him to waive his NTC before Free Agency even started, this was not an issue of Homer making stupid moves and then having to shed Gagne because he screwed up, this was apparently part of the plan.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 21, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
almost makes it worse
his plan was to shed a skilled winger in favor of wingers like Shelley and Carcillo, Zerdev isnt enough, we needed to add skill wingers without subtracting from them. and to overpay Meszaros and not make goalie a priority.
if all of that was planned i think im even more terrified for the future.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 21, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Then what I don’t understand is why would he plan to move Gagne, hear that Gagne won’t be traded, then proceed like he would? Don’t you say, crap, I guess I have to adjust the plan and do something else. Like not take on Andrej Meszaros. Instead, he proceeded like he didn’t care whether Gagne would waive his NTC or not and just act like he had an additional $5.25 million in cap space, thus ensuring he would get absolutely nothing for him.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess this is why they say those NTC aren’t really worth the paper they are printed on. I think he was going to force Gagne out, bad return or not. I heard some rumblings that they wanted to get rid of him last year. I just don’t get it.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Contract clauses, or for that matter entire contracts, are valid and binding unless both parties to them agree to modify, remove or ignore them.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 21, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, but there’s a reason confessions acquired through torture aren’t valid. Waiving a clause under duress isn’t the same thing as waiving a clause.
And when you refuse to waive it twice, it’s not like he suddenly had a change of heart the third time.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Contract clauses, or for that matter entire contracts, are valid and binding unless both parties to them agree to modify, remove or ignore them.
is a response to
…those NTC aren’t really worth the paper they are printed on…
by TopShelfTony on Jul 22, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. You’re saying both parties have to waive it. But I’m saying both parties can agree to modify, remove, or ignore based on only one party wanting to, thus making it seemingly worthless.
Gagne didn’t want to waive his NTC, but the team basically forced him to. Just because he has to agree to it doesn’t mean his NTC helped him. And if it doesn’t help him, what is it worth?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 22, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
A contract is an agreement reached at a specific point in time. Each party agrees to the whole contract in every respect. If the contract does not specify a modification mechanism, one party must approach the other to request modification if it is desired. The other party is under no contractual obligation to agree to a modification request.
In this case Simon Gagne need not have waived or accepted modification to the NTC. He was under no obligation to do so.
He chose to modify the NTC. In that way, the NTC was of worth to him, worth the paper it was printed on.
There are many examples of how contracts should work and just as many of the reality of how they do work.
Here is an analogy I remember from my childhood:
Our neighbor had a breakin. I, aged 8 or so, remarked to my Dad, “They needed to have a better lock on their door.” My Dad replied, “Locks only keep out honest people.”
by TopShelfTony on Jul 22, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right that Gagne was under no obligation to do so, and I’d agree with you more if it was a no-movement clause rather than a no-trade. But he was faced with a terrible decision; let his agent work out a deal and save face, or get put on unconditional waivers. Gagne’s NTC, even unmodified, didn’t give him the ability to guarantee his stay in Philadelphia.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 23, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Broad Street Hockey
Related FanShots on Broad Street Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Penguins, Bruins face their challenges in Eastern Conference showdown
- Olli Jokinen’s slump-buster is a Big Mac meal from McDonalds (Video)
- Friday’s Three Stars: Brassard wins it for Blue Jackets in overtime; Halak blanks Kings
- Puck Previews: Blues host Kings in first game after break; Blackhawks’ road struggles
- Best barometer of the St. Louis Blues’ success? Gifts from political lobbyists
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- WHL Roundup: A look at Friday's games
- Gabriel and Leipsic two goals each as the Winterhawks defeat the Silvertips 7-3
- Feser solidifies Americans win with two empty-net goals against the Thunderbirds
- Holberg scores winner in shootout as the Chiefs beat the Royals 6-5
- Brown makes 26 saves to lead the Rockets over the Cougars 2-1
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
