Back off Homer
by orangeandblack20 on Jul 19, 2010 7:46 PM EDT
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Guys, I hate trading Simon Gagne. Believe me, I do... but after what Homer has done in the past few years, how can we legitimately be this mad at him (read first before you tell me I'm an idiot)
Paul Holmgren inherited the worst team in the league with the first pick overall. Because thats what happens when you suck the most, you get the first pick, right? Um... no. Good bye Patty Kane, hello JVR. Instead of an immediate impact player that helps us win from day one, Homer was dealt a project who stayed in school for two years and who still hasn't formed into what he should be yet. No biggie- so homer rebuilt this team from scratch starting a little bit before the draft. He aquired: Scott Hartnell, Danny Briere, Marty Biron, Kimmo Timonen, Scotty Upshall, Jason Smith and Joffrey Lupul. Add all of that to a core of youngsters who just won the Calder Cup and you have a strong foundation. Three years ago he took a team from worst, to top 4. Any way you cut it, its impressive. Yeah, he probably overpaid for one or two guys (or everyone but hey, I'm not complaining), but he turned a loser into a winner and got on everyone's good side.
We had high hopes going into the 08-09 season, and with a few key departures (Captain Jason Smith being the big one and RJ Umberger being traded) and some incoming helpers (Luca Sbisa for the Umburger pick, Matt Carle (eventually), Ossi Vannanen, Glen Metropolit) we looked good. Then came the deadline and then Homer went from loved to hated because of the Upshall trade. Why did we trade the beloved Scotty Upshall? Two words- Claude. Giroux. For you new fans, the Flyers farm system didn't always suck. Claude was called up due to a Briere injury and really excelled to the point where we couldn't send him back down when Danny came back, so we made some cap room. Out was Vannanen, Metro, and Upshall; in was this crazy dude Dan Carcillo. We all know the story about how Upshall cried in the interview, Carcillo played like a man posessed (in a bad way) and that would go down as the move that killed the chemistry and in turn- our season. (Looking at it now, it was a solid move, Carcillo has developed into a very solid role player who even finds the net once in a while, and Claude and Danny are both amazing playoff guys).
Last off-season some more guys leaving (Knuble and Biron) and some others coming in (JVR finally and Ray Emery were the big names). Then there was that little trade that made everyone (or atleast some people) mad at Homer for NO REASON. Homer traded essentially 3 first rounder and Joffrey Lupul for CHRIS PRONGER. One of the top 4 defensemen in the league. At the time people hated trading the farm. Looking back now... we might not make the playoffs with out the giant on D, and with him we were a weak OT goal, and a road victory away from winning the cup. I think homer won that one.
Now comes this off-season: Losing Asham: even. Re-signing Coburn: generally not liked. Signing Shelly: universally not liked. Trading for Meszaros: slightly good in the people's eyes. Trading Gagne: Everyone kill homer. Yeah the one Gagne trade looks poor, but assuming we get Turco, look what we did in a nut shell this off-season: Got tougher (Shelly/Carcillo signings), got better of offense (Zherdev for Gagne is a wash, but the development of all of our young players greatly improves our offense, not to mention the return of Hartnell, Briere, a full season of Lieno, and a sophomore JVR), tremendously improved defense (Meszaros + O'Donnell vs. Kraijeck + Parent), and improved net minding with Turco. Not to mention the small moves he made that helped us out (trading Hamhuis for a 3rd rounder was a great move).
If you honestly didn't think we got better look at this:
Gags/Richie/Carcillo vs. Carter/Richie/(Carcillo/Zherdev)
Briere/Lieno/Hartnell vs. ditto
Giroux/JVR/Ash vs. Giroux/JVR/(Carcillo/Zherdev)
Powe/Betts/Lappy vs. Powe/Shelly/Betts/Lappy
I think this year wins each line. And quite frankly its not even close.
Defense: The top two pairs are a wash, yeah Timmo and Prongs get older, but so does Carle/Coburn. Not to mention the less minutes they will play BECAUSE: Kraijeck/Parent<<<<<<O'Donnell/Meszaros
That all being said- IF- we get Turco: Turco/Leights>Leights/Boosh.
All of that being:
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m) / James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)
Ian Laperriere ($1.166m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m)
Claude Giroux ($0.821m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m)
/ / Darroll Powe ($0.650m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Sean O'Donnell ($1.300m)
GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) /Marty Turco ($2.000m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $58,759,763; BONUSES: $937,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,577,737
If someone told you on July 30th that that would be the case, would you be ok with it? I know I sure would. Give Homer a break. 3 years, 2 Conf championship appearance, 1 Eastern conf finals, and 1 first round loss to the eventual cup champs. Give the guy a break, I don't mind these results year after year, although a cup is ideal.
This item was written by a member of this community and is not necessarily endorsed by Broad Street Hockey.
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You’re glossing over a lot of things here.
- Why was Upshall traded after Metropolit and Vaananen were waived? Sure, Claude Giroux sounds like a nice trade off. But Metro and Vaananen were waived clearing $2 million. Trading Upshall cleared $341,000 in cap space. In all, they lost $2.34 mil in cap space to fit in $821k for Claude Giroux? No. Holmgren effed up the cap so much that he went out and got a ton of players with Briere’s LTIR money, then when he came back just cut $2 million without getting anything in return and traded the third-line winger we’ve been looking for all offseason to clear… a third of a million dollars. But saying Claude Giroux just sounds a lot better then explaining how Holmgren once again had to make up for his cap mismanagement.
- As I said in another thread, everyone saying "The Flyers got better" need to remember how that came about. What players left? Asham, Krajicek, and Parent. How hard is it to replace those three? I don’t care that Holmgren upgraded those players, I care that he couldn’t do it without forcing the top-line winger out of town through bullying tactics. Seriously, how hard is it to upgrade the third-pairing and third-line winger with $10 million in spending money? But Holmgren couldn’t do it.
- You say we got better on offense by claiming natural growth from within. How is that a credit to Holmgren? Full season of Leino! JVR is in his second year! Look at how awesome Holmgren is! He makes time continue moving! Seriously, the offense didn’t get better by swapping Gagne for Zherdev; Asham for Carcillo; and Carcillo for Shelley. In fact, it got worse.
- We got tougher. Really? Oh thank gosh that we replaced Asham with Shelley, we really didn’t have enough toughness with just Carcillo, Laperriere, Hartnell, and Pronger. We just had to go sign Shelley for THREE years in case we needed toughness later.
Seriously, if someone told me June 28th that the Flyers couldn’t improve their team without trading Simon Gagne, I would not be happy. You mean you can’t improve upon Arron Asham, Lukas Krajicek, Ryan Parent, and Michael Leighton with $10 million in cap space? How hard is it to sign a #5 D-man, a #6 D-man, a goalie, and a third-line winger with $10 million? No, you have to go trade a second round pick, spend $5.3 million on your third pairing, sign a fourth-line player for $1.1 million, re-sign a backup goaltender to be your starter, and then get an NHL castoff for your third-line. No, wait, first line because you can’t afford all of that without trading your first line center, thus opening a hole in your third line again.
Read that paragraph again and tell me to back off Holmgren.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 9:15 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I get what you’re saying, but the point I’m trying to make (and I guess I did a horrible job doing it) is that everything he’s done since he’s been here has been second guessed when he did it, but applauded after. I’m just saying we need to give this some time before we crucify our GM who’s done nothing but take us to two conference finals and a Stanley Cup finals appearance in only three years.
by orangeandblack20 on Jul 19, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t get that, sorry.
And I see what you’re saying, especially with turning a shit team into an ECF team in a year. But he inherited a team (in 06-07) with Gagne, Knuble, Richards, Carter, Forsberg, Umberger, Hatcher, Jones, Pitkanen, and Niittymaki. That’s a pretty good core to work with: A solid top-6, top-2 defensemen plus Randy Jones (who would not have gotten my scorn without the contract he got) and a solid goalie.
The moves that were second guessed are many, and while some have been applauded, some are still incomprehensible. Randy Jones re-entry waivers? Randy Jones’ contract? 1st round pick for Steve Eminger and a 3rd? Gauthier and a 2nd for Hersley and Lukacevic?
But that’s not the point. The point is that everyone set the bar so low for Holmgren (he improved the team from last year!) that even when he trips over it, people still say he can’t be criticized. Almost every deal this offseason has been bad. I even cut him some slack on the Coburn signing – overpayment, but not egregious – and that doesn’t help him. He had to replace 4 players (Coburn, Asham, Krajicek, and Parent) with $10 million while hoping to get a goalie. Not only didn’t he get a goalie, but he went over his budget. Think about that. He re-signed Coburn, replaced the third pairing, and signed a third-line forward for an average of $2.39 million each.
How? He spent half of his allowance ($5.3) on the third pairing, $1.1 on an unnecessary fourth-line guy, $475k on a third-line upgrade (Carcillo over Asham), and $1.9 on Coburn ($3.2 from $1.3). What sticks out? Andrej Meszaros and Jody Shelley.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
My question to you now, is what if he did it backwards. What if his first move was dumping Gags (yeah he’d probably get more), or atleast with Gags in the Meszaros deal and it was one big deal? Then he used the cap space to get a goalie and Zherdev and then the last piece was Shelly and O’Donnell. If it was that way it wouldn’t look that bad, agree?
by orangeandblack20 on Jul 20, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
It would have been better to target any of Tallinder, Corvo, Morris, Lydman, or Foster. All are cheaper guys, all can play the PP, and all would be great 3rd pairing guys. He didn’t even try (at least that’s the way it appears) he just jumped the gun and made the trade for Meszaros. And between the savings there, and not signing a Shelley, etc, you aren’t stuck moving Gagne. So would it have been as bad, hmm, yes it would have. It wouldn’t spin me in to a rage, but it would have still been bad given all the options out there to address the 3rd pairing this year. And I don’t want to hear, those guys wouldn’t play on a 3rd pair, he should have gone out and pursued them, I’m sure he could have waited 12 hours on the trade.
And if you listened to Stevie Y’s press conference, the timing with the Kovie signing was a coincidence and they were in no way related, Simon did not want to go out West. So, if it was his plan to trade Simon the whole time, he really missed the boat on actively pursuing it earlier.
It’d be better but still very flawed. Basically, what DLJr said.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
THANKS
After reading the story I was starting to feel a little better but then I read your post and it totally shit in my cereal. Could’nt let me live in LA-LA land not even for a second I guess I now know what they mean by the truth hurts.
"All hail the Flyers" Jim Jackson.
by darkside3744 on Jul 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, sorry.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I also just realised that Homer probably jumped too early with Gagne too. How long after the Kovalchuk signing was the trade announced. By at least waiting for another day he could have driven up the price.
FOOL.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Yeah, someone said elsewhere that he can accept trading him now when he still has value. That’s fine if he was traded at the draft, or before free agency, or before going over the cap, or during the Kovalchuk saga, or after teams started getting nervous because nobody better was available.
But Boruk says Gagne only listed 5 or 6 teams and they were all east coast. Trading Gagne meant no leverage, little return, and no bidding war.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 19, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s like everything he has done this easy has been whatever was easiest, rather than whatever made the most sense..
Carcillo wants more money, we’ll just sign Shelley.
There is a free agent goalie market, but Leighton is here, so…..
Lots of 5/6 defenseman, but I’ll just trade for one.
And on and on.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Yeah, hockey sense would have been trading someone with a lot of value and no NTC, perhaps at a position where we have a surplus. I wonder if we have anyone like that on our team?
Hmmmmm…
Talk amongst yourselves.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
who’s contract is up after this season and will most certainly demand $6 mil something dollars that he doesnt deserve.
If Carts has a good season, I could be OK with a cap hit identical to Mike’s (not the same length)
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
In a UTOPIAN SOCIETY you would be right, however…In the Really Real World that is just a fantasy….
A. Carter will NOT just go ahead and sign a new contract @ 5M/year, he WILL expect a raise.
B. He is an RFA, if you think for one minute that another team isn’t going to come along and sign him (a 26 year old with 40+ goals/year talent) to an offer sheet (even if it’s just to put the screws to the Flyers and create more Cap Hell (like the San Jose Hjalmarsson sheet this year) then you are certifiable.
In reality, Carter is going to be looking at a contract most likely in the 5.75-6.75M range. He may not DESERVE it, but realistically that is where he will be looking.
I would have preferred to trade Carter for prospects/picks. Kept Gagne (who may have been willing to structure a back-loaded contract to help with the Cap now in order to stay in Philly). Then we could have always been Ba$tard$ and waited until the off-season, sign Carter to a sheet to try and bring him back.
But…I Digress…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
In regards to B…there hasn’t been an offer sheet to Ryan, so you can’t say there will definitely be one for Carter. Just saying. But I agree…no way he signs for $5mil.
How about…we talk to Ryan’s agent work a 4-5 year deal in the 3.75-4.0M/year range, then so we don’t lose the picks, we trade Carter to Anaheim for the rights to Ryan?
Yeah I know…lay off the pipe…LOL!
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Believe me, if there was anyway to get Ryan, I’d jump at it. The problem with his deal is he wants 3 years at 5 per, not 5 years at 5 per b/c he feel he’ll be out performing his contract by years 4 and 5. I don’t understand why he wouldn’t do that though, b/c a 4 or 5 year deal would take him to UFA status, where as 3 years he’d still be an RFA. I’m sure his agent is feeding him this stuff. But I think it’s a bad move. (Credit XM NHL for this discussion).
I agree with 99% of this
But I still believe Zherdev will have a better season then Gagne offensively. So Zherdev > Gagne, Carcillo > Asham, but Asham > Shelly. Just a minor niche. But still, well said
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
We HOPE Zherdev has a better season offensively than Gags. Considering his history and reputation, we PRAY he has a better season offensively than Gags. However to call Zherdev an upgrade over Gags is Ludicrous (at least at this point)…
When Gags has been healthy he is a consistant 70 point guy, a level Zherdev has never reached. Gags is one of the BEST 2-WAY Wingers in the league and by all accounts Zherdev has never seen his own defensive zone. He says he changed his ways this year in the KHL but lets be real…its a totally different style of play over there and the talent level he was playing against is NOT NHL caliber…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
It’s unfair to compare Zherdev to Gagne anyway. Zherdev is a legit 25 goal scorer in the NHL though. The guy doesn’t play D, but that’s fine, hide him with O-zone starts, put him on the scoring line which is paid to score, not defend, and it’s fine. Gags and Zherdev are different players,a t different points of their career. The comparison isn’t particularly fair to Zherdev. If he has Richie or X setting him up though, he should be fun to watch. The sad thing is, you could have had both.
As a side, I think Gagne only hit 70+ points twice in his career. He was close a couple other times though. Injuries certainly haven’t helped, but that’s alo part of the equation.
Let’s be honest now, even you state that “When Gags in healthy…” And the problem has been he has not been over the last few season. His goal production has been down. It’s just that the timing of his goals are so damn MONEY. He was a clutch goal scorer, even hurt.
Zherdev is a pure goal scorer, so from that angle alone, yes he’s an upgrade to the team’s scoring. However now that we’ve lost Gagne, we’re not better there than last year.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by Mike B on D on Jul 20, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s hard to gauge the two side-by-side, due to the age difference and rules differences they’ve played under. It’s fair to say Gagne’s about a 0.85 PPG player, maybe 0.90, since the lockout. That would be ages 25-30, which should be roughly his prime. He was about a 0.70-0.75 PPG player pre-lockout; while he had a couple years around 0.85, he also had a full year at 0.56.
Zherdev was about a 0.75 PPG player from 20-24, the same age that Gagne was scoring at about the same rate. He’s slightly lower on goals, slightly higher on assists. Given that he’s entering his prime, it’s not absurd to think that his PPG level will be around the 0.80-0.90 level. While he was playing in a “lesser” league, the KHL is considered the best European league, so it’s not like he was rotting away in the EIHL.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
meh
couldn’t agree with you more geoff. it’s really tough to swallow. i’m 25 years old and yesterday was one of the more devastating days in my life as a flyer fan. gagne’s treatment by the FO was harder to watch than kane’s OT goal because it was slow and painful. i was patient and waited for the cards to fall and unfortunately it was heartbreaking. we could’ve had a special team next season but instead we’ll be struggling for a playoff spot again and talking about how bad leighton’s 5-hole is for the next 8 months. for all homer has done to rebuild this team since ‘06, it’s hard to imagine he could fuck up the cap THIS bad. they say it’s better to be lucky than good. i’m looking at you GMPH.. here’s to nik zherdev exceeding expectations.
I would also argue that Emery/Boosh (what we really started with last season) is really a wash to Turco/Leighton, but yes Turco/Leighton is > Leighton/Boosh.
Even in that hypothetical, I then ask:
Turco/Boucher + $625,000 > Turco/Leighton
So I still don’t understand the Leighton signing unless he’s the starter. And then I just question the timing.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I hadn’t really considered that yet. Thank you for giving me one more thing to be upset about haha. Sigh.
haha, really? I’ve been harping on that for awhile.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Changes
Gags/Richie/Carcillo Carter vs. Carter/Richie/(Carcillo/Zherdev)
Powe/Betts/Lappy vs. Powe/Shelly/Betts/Lappy
I’ll take the first lines over the second ones, please.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
I want to drink the cool-aid soooooo bad but this off-season has just been mind boggling. Plus I was always under the impression that the Upshall trade was part of a bigger deal to get Campbell but failed. Also when we traded our first round pick for Eminger I was mad but Homer was able to turn that into Carle so that was OK. Over all this off-season has done nothing for me as far as excitment for next season.
"All hail the Flyers" Jim Jackson.
i thought Upshall trade was to get cap space for Briere and Giroux for the playoff run
by historywillbemade on Jul 20, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
It only netted $341,000 and cost a second round pick.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
By waiving Metropolit and Vaananen, the team got rid of $2 million in cap space, then acquired $341,000 in the Upshall trade.
Were those three moved to bring Briere back? Yeah, but it’s because Homer got Matt Carle while Briere was on LTIR. Rather than move someone like Randy Jones ($2.8 million) he decided to get $2.34 million by giving up two players for nothing, and making the Upshall trade.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Randy jones was the worst thing to happen to paul holmgren. He did nothing right with him.
by tmurder on Jul 20, 2010 12:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
not to mention the disparity of talent btw upshall and carcillo
by tmurder on Jul 20, 2010 12:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think that the team is better
I wont deny that, even is Leighton is a slight decrease from Emery, the defense around him is ten fold. My problem is that Homer has clearly shown that he cant read what a players worth is. Hes too eager to unload that he gives up too much or doesnt get enough in return. look at the Carcillo trade. Both Upshall and Carcillo are very equal, very fine for a player for player swap, but why did he need to throw in the 2nd rounder? Aslo, if he was making the trade to TB, why didnt he package Gagne in the Mez trade to begin with? he could have traded Gagne and a 3rd for Mez straight up, and that would have been the equivalent of what it ultimately ended up being. I trust Homer in player judgement, and finding players that fit with the team, but there is no way you can trust him for trading.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
He doesn’t appear to have the balls to walk away from a deal when he is in a position of weakness. When he is the position of power he can do his job. But when he is trying to acquire a player he wants or trying to solve a salary cap problem he isn’t willing to walk away. He’s to eager to get a deal done.
by tmurder on Jul 20, 2010 12:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I read your whole post, orangeandblack, and while I appreciate what you’re trying to do here, this is Simon-friggin-Gagne. H’es been one of my favorites since way back when! Yes he gets injured alot, but it’s more than just on-ice presence that he’s appreciated for.
The only thing I can equate this to is the Eagles trading Brian Dawkins cause they were both really really stupid moves that didn’t need to be made. And both men should’ve retired here.
I wanted to post this but I was too late for the trade thread festivities
This trade made me wonder. Why not trade Hartnell for a fourth round pick? We clear same amount of salary. Same NTC situation. Sorry, I imagine it’s hard to look past your first line winger when deciding who to trade.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 20, 2010 7:24 AM EDT reply actions
Why not tradeHartnellHomer for a fourth round pick?
Made your idea better for us. Honestly, though, I think it was the fact that Hartnell’s under contract for three more seasons. Keeping Gagne would mean he, Carter, Leino, Giroux, and Zherdev would all come up for contracts at the same time. Trading Gagne instead of Hartnell means you cut one negotiation out of next year’s off-season.
Speaking of which, can we get Homer signed up for some negotiations courses at a good business program? The dude’s getting jobbed in his dealings with other teams.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Yeah, but you could have resigned Gagne (as proposed by others here) on a front-loaded contract with a low cap hit next season, whereas Hartnell gets that $4.2 million cap hit for the next three. Making Gagne fit would have meant more flexibility for NEXT season, when cap hell is REALLY coming to the Flyers. And considering that we basically got nothing in return for sending him to TB, letting him walk next season would have netted us the same return.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by penguinsfan on Jul 20, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s more that, other than Sutter in Calgary and Homer here, is there a GM in the league delusional enough and willing to take on Hartnell’s 4.2M Cap Hit for the next 3 years? I know he came alive in the Playoffs but he did not have a good Regular Season. While his run in the playoffs certainly gives him value, I don’t know that it would be enough for another team to be on the hook for 3 more years.
I am hoping, however, that he reverts to the Hartnell that will score 25 during the season while being the high-energy player that netted him this contract.
Here’s to Hopin’
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
What do you mean we got nothing back? We got a Fourth Round Pick AND $1.7M worth of Used Pucks and Jock Straps…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
i think i’d rather have a bag of pucks than Walker. Did Homer really want Walker? Do we really need a 7th or 8th defensemen that makes 1.7 mill/year when we already have 40% of our cap tied up on defense? WTF, it baffles me that Homer would take that contract and couldn’t get a prospect instead
by historywillbemade on Jul 20, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
…And even if his plan is that Walker will go to the AHL (with the hopes he is claimed on waivers and his Cap Hit is cleared), why not just trade Gags to Tampa and get back our 2nd round pick, or their 3rd round pick, and let them keep their trash in their own yard?
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
The (perhaps vain) hope is that Walker will be a ‘spare part’ in whatever other trades Holmgren has going. There’s a number of teams looking for d-men, and Holmgren now has eight (8!) NHL defensemen on his roster. Even ditching him for a pick would be more productive than Adirondack exile.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
yeah he’d be wasteful on the Phantoms too as he would take ice time from the young guys that need it, but then again that could be behind homer’s possible thinking that Bartulis would be better served playing in the AHL then sitting in the press box
by historywillbemade on Jul 20, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Just for fun:
I’m not a fan of posting tons of these fictional rosters done by playing around on CapGeek, but everyone saying how Homer improved the team really pisses me off. Let’s merge his deals with better ones:
You get Zherdev, Carcillo, Coburn, O’Donnell, and Leighton at the prices Homer paid for them. But you keep your second round pick and sign Kurtis Foster instead. Don’t sign Jody Shelley; waive Cote and have Nodl as your 13th forward (or Powe if he signs for cheaper); don’t trade Simon Gagne.
Yeah, you only have ~$617k in cap space, but you can have David Laliberte or Pat Maroon make the team and still be under the cap. You can call up Dan Jancevski (just signed to minor league deal) to be your 8th defenseman. And if anybody has to go on LTIR, you get their cap space.
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Simon Gagne ($5.250m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($0.821m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)
/ / Andreas Nodl ($0.850m)
DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Kurtis Foster ($1.800m) / Sean O’Donnell ($1.300m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) /Brian Boucher ($0.925m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,834,763; BONUSES: $1,052,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $617,737
See how easy it is to improve the Flyers? Even giving Homer some of his moves, it can be easily done. So why is this a defense of him?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 12:16 AM EDT reply actions
I’m not a fan of posting tons of these fictional rosters done by playing around on CapGeek, but everyone saying how Homer improved the team really pisses me off. Let’s merge his deals with better ones:
Of course you are.
But yeah. Everything that a BSH consensus led to was exactly what you pointed out. PS, you could save an extra $50k by signing Ellis over Leighton.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
I don’t like posting a ton of those, but I do love playing with the calculator.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
The new flash roster maker is sooo sexy that you just have to share your sexily made roster
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
haha, completely true
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
homer is not a rocket surgeon
through dumb luck leino fell in his lap which was the reason the team went so deep in the playoffs… without leino the team would have had to rely solely on the richards line and that would have meant a first round exit!!! the fact is the team has 200 defensemen… no real RW and a third rate goaltender… moreover they have no draft choices for what…??? 20 years homer was a good player… a dedicated team player and a hard worker…but he never won a thing and this team is a lot like him in that regard!!! hard working…dedicated… but not deep enough in scoring talent
by Elmo the faithful fan on Jul 23, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
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