Grading the 2010 Flyers: Jeff Carter
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 2:36 PM EDT
in Grading the Flyers
142 comments
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Jeff Carter was one of only two people to not be graded last year. That was unfortunate, but we won't let it happen again this year!
Unfortunately, Carter's 09-10 season wasn't quite as good as his 08-09. Not like it matters much, since Carter still had a pretty good season. 30 goals, 60 points, 6 game-winners, team-best faceoff percentage, etc. None too shabby, especially considering he missed 8 games with a broken foot.
The two big critiques of Carter's season would have to be his defense and his disappearing act in the playoffs. Yes, part of his problem in the playoffs was his injury. Completely understandable. But it's mitigated by two factors: It's now the second straight year he's had a disappointing playoffs and Simon Gagne returned from an injury before Carter and performed better than him.
Now, Carter still contributed 5 goals and 2 assists in 12 playoff games this year, good for 0.58 per game. The problem is that he's averaged 0.93 per game the past two years and had only 2 points in the Stanley Cup Finals. Maybe it's nitpicking, but Carter had two good games in this year's playoffs (Game 4 against New Jersey, and Game 5 against Montreal) where he scored 4 goals and 1 assist. In the other 10, he was good for 1 goal, 1 assist, and a minus-9.
Again, that's just the playoffs. He wasn't terrible, but with a player like Jeff Carter, the expectations are raised.
Carter's regular season was pretty frustrating as he was (and always has been) a very streaky scorer. His flaws are still there - missing the net far too often, looking lazy on certain shifts, going in long droughts, etc. - as are his strengths - great wrist shot, massive hot streaks, good skater, intimidating force, etc. - but one thing deserves special mention. Carter drastically improved his faceoffs this year. From a 45% in 06-07, Carter slowly raised his percent until this year, where it jumped to 52.4%.
While the book on Carter reads as a responsible two-way forward, he didn't exactly have a good year in his own zone. Just to illuminate this point, Carter's GAON/60 was higher than Ilya Kovalchuk's. Yes, there are mitigating factors (zone-start being the big one) but it's just an example. That's something Carter will have to improve upon next year.
But the real question for next year is whether Carter is asked to stay on the wing and whether he can perform there. Based on his performance on a line with Gagne and Mike Richards in the playoffs - where Carter only managed 3 goals and 1 assist in 8 games, while being a minus-4 - it will definitely be a struggle.
Still, Carter's game seems perfectly suited for the wing. He carries the puck in the zone along the wall and is a shoot-first player. His power-play goals come from off the half-wall and he is big enough to win battles in the corners. The only reason he can't excel on the wing is if he doesn't want to, which, whether we like it or not is a distinct possibility.
He gets a B for his reduced production, his streakiness, and his poor defensive season.
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Ditto. He’s a chemistry killer who takes too many games off and goes invisible at the wrong time of the season. I don’t care if he’s Jesus on skates, if he can’t produce at the most crucial time- playoffs- then what’s the point in having him at all? I mean, we’d have to suck pretty bad to not even make the playoffs, and once you’re in you need your top guys to perform. Ok, so he was injured in the playoffs this year…what’s his excuse for going invisible last year when he was healthy as a horse? He’s a no show for the big show and we should trade him and get players and picks that will improve our team.
It hasn’t been healthy the last two playoffs unfortunately he played the Pittsburg series in 2009 with a separated shoulder. In 2008 he had 11 pts in 17 games. I don’t understand why he now has a reputation as a “chemistry killer” I think that goes along with ’refuses to play wing". As completely unfounded statements that for some reason or another have become facts around the blogosphere.
by chrislanci on Jul 22, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
11 points in 17 playoff games doesn’t scream 6 million dollar contract…
But regardless, I think he’s our top offensive threat. It’s just that we could have been better without him than with him. Now that Gags is gone, we absolutely have to keep him. Next season Leino and Zherdev are likely gone, but that’s the cost of keeping Carter I guess.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 23, 2010 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions
You caved on the voting options. What’s next you start becoming a holmgren apologist?
by tmurder on Jul 21, 2010 2:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
haha, when DragonGirl comes up with a modest compromise, I accept.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I give him a B- for all the same reasons you did and because of his golden opportunity wasted in game 6. That was even worse then when he blew it against the pens in first round in 09.
by tmurder on Jul 21, 2010 2:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agreed. I didn’t want to bring that up though.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah its pretty painful to relive. If only it was Richie in that spot.
by tmurder on Jul 21, 2010 3:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
didn’t Ritchie also fail to put on in towards the end of the game? I know gags and giroux had there opportunities to win it for us as well. Also if you rewatch the play a hawk got his stick on it so it’s not all carter’s fault
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously its not all his fault(see leighton, michael) but its said seeing two year in a row where he blows an opportunity that would have changed the game and maybe the series. Carter had a weak playoffs and that was the icing on the cake.
by tmurder on Jul 21, 2010 4:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He did have weak playoffs but he was hurt. Yes, Gagne was also hurt and played out of his mind, but that can’t be expected of all players. I just don’t think Carter ever found the groove after coming back from the first injury. He had like 2 really good games but that was it
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Richie battled hard along the boards to get it out to Giroux, Giroux made one crazy pass to leave Carter with an open net. Carter stuffed up.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 22, 2010 6:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for the added A-/B+ and B-/C+
I had to go with the B-/C+ which would have been a straight C+ if I had the choice.
I thought it was a poor year for Jeff because as stated he is streaky as a bum cleaning your windshield and he seemed to disappear sometimes. I would watch an entire game and at the end ask myself if he was even on the game time roster that day. I think when he played wing for a hand full of games during the regular season, that affected him as well, because he looked AWFUL.
Also, nice add with the Depth Chart Ranking: #1 Right Wing. I guess we know where you think he’ll be.
"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."
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haha, I just put the depth chart rankings as where they were when the season ended. I honestly had no idea what to call him.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
B- for his drop off from the previous offensively combined with his poor GAON/60. Oh 40 goal scorer Jeff Carter where art thou.
The faceoff improvement keeps him from a C+. Watching him take the draws live was really impressive. He won a lot of draws clean in the playoffs.
so we can have Carter lineup at Center to take the draws and then move over to wing anyway?
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
A winger can always kick the center out occasionally, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it as a full time approach. We’d have to see, I guess.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 21, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
C/C+
injuries or no injuries, the guy had a 13 goal drop-off between 08/09 and 09/10. For a guy who is a goal scorer first and foremost thats a huge dissapointment.
It quite frankly doesn’t make sense for a guy who can’t pass, is only mildly good at defense, and is only really good skating in one direction (north-south) to be playing center over wing. I don’t care what position he played in the minors, his skill set is perfectly suited for the wing, regardless of whether or not thats the position he wants to play. This is the NHL, you play where the coach wants you to play.
The organization refused to trade Carter over gagne, despite the fact that Carter is the only forward on their roster that would garner any kind of a return worth more than a Wawa shorty and iced tea. If he doesnt score atleast 40 goals this year and show signifigant improvement in other areas of the game (defense, playmaking, and most important of all: determination) then I wiill be thoroughly dissapointed with Mr. Carter
Holy crap, I want that combination of flavors in my mouth, right now.
Wawa needs to expand to Floriduh.
All of the recent Cheesesteak talk and now this, bringing up WAWA. I hate that i moved to Michigan, but i will be returning to the area shortly, and i will be eating as many cheesesteaks and Wawa hoagies as time will allow….
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bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY! - (doubleh B.S.H.)
I feel your pain and share not being able to get our Philliy cuisine. I can’t get a real Cheesesteak in NYC and of course no Wawa’s.
Well for the cheesesteak there is a place that is ok here called Carl’s. It’s good enough when I am craving one, but I don’t like a few things about them. 1) They stole their “Rules of the House” (stupid name they gave) straight from Pat’s. 2) they have carts at Yankees games, so that makes me feel dirty.
Whenever I get to come back to the Philly area, I’m getting a cheesesteak wit wiz and onions.. ok no more talking about food.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 21, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
all of you suck
I’m stuck in NC with no wawa, no cheese steaks. Not only are you making me hungry, but home sick as well. The only thing NC has on the Philly area is the seafood. Other than that, I’d much rather be back home in Jersey.
how about a lemonaide tea? I dig that stuff
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s my drink!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Not quite, but close. Wawa does it with probably a 2:1 ratio of tea to lemonade.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh got ya. I mostly drink water, ginger ale (on occasion), or some form of alcohol (if I’m gonna be drinking calories, I want those calories to make my verbal filter go away and lead to at least one bad decision) these days once I started caring about calorie intake. My girlfriend got me hooked on that sweet tea vodka, and making a half and half with lemonade. Holy crap, you don’t even realize your going to fall over when you first stand up after downing 9 of those in 20 minutes on a hot day in June.
i drink diet soda, fuzze drinks (the low carb raspberry pomegranate is amazing), and flavored waters or smart water when i get around to actually working out.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
I got pretty big when I messed up my knee and stopped playing hockey. I was also going through like 10 raspberry snapples a day. That’s like 1600 calories a day in liquid. It’s amazing how many calories you can drink, and I never really bothered to notice it before. Now I’m slightly more careful, and I’ve cured my ridiculous addiction to raspberry tea.
Depends whether or not you put bacon on the shorty. the bacon will cost you a 7th round pick (or a 2nd if your homer)
What do you think this is, quiznos?
by bfrank27 on Jul 21, 2010 4:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Also, I love how this discussion has gone. From Carter, to Wawa. It’s some how cheering me up.
I give Wawa an A- on the season. Stop getting rid of the chocolate macadamia coffee in the spring/summer season, and you’ll be up to an A
I live closer to two Wawa’s before any other fast food place (and the next closest is a Chipotle) so I go to wawa way more then i go to Wendy’s or McDonnald’s or Bk combined.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
See Phalange’s comment on Wawa above. Consider it repeated here.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Haha. But it’s a great time to by a house in Florida. I could have gotten the same house I got up here down there for 1/3 of the price. I’ll just consider the extra cost the value of being able to walk to a Wawa.
Just wait, Scheetz is going to start creeping east. They don’t have the drink selection WaWa does, but their MTO is much better. And I would suggest trying WaWa’s Blackberry Lemonade. Slammin’….
FALSE. I have found Sheetz’s made to order inedible. Wawa, the other hand, is the best 24-hour deli in the world.
Uh, FALSE? I disagree, but maybe it’s because I literally stop at Wawa 3 times a day (on the road for work) and have exhausted every option they have.
Agreed I have both evenly because I go to PSU but am from West Chester. I prefer Wawa because even though the mto doesn’t have as many choices as sheetz I think wawa tastes better. Sheetz also has a terrible color scheme.
by tmurder on Jul 21, 2010 11:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Their MTO’s are good, but Wawa beats them hands down.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 21, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I miss wawa
Although my cholesterol level does not. The great thing about wawa is that nobody outside of the philly area has ever heard of it. Out in Cali, all we have is 7-11’s and AM/PM mini marts. When I tell people that Philly has places like a 7-11, only with a full deli stand that does better sandwiches than subway, they look at me like I’m insane. It also used to be near impossible to get a decent Italian Hoagie out here, but recently a Mike’s Jersey Subs opened. Still can’t get a decent Cheesesteak out here though.
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Ah…a good “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure” reference. :)
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by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 22, 2010 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Geoff, I need a one time only option of “S”. In that “S” is for “should have been you Carter not Gagne that went bye-bye”. But in that Carter is a very talented player I put B-. I still believe he is not a stone cold ice in the veins winner and plays way to passive to much of the time. Even with the departure of Gagne this team could still trade Carter and not really be depleted offensively. That is counting on Zherdev to be at the least what he is capable of on paper.
Just Call Me "M"!
I think the team demonstrated in the playoffs last year that Carter is not the key to the Flyers car. That isn’t to say he is not talented, but rather this team can succeed without him, and his possible return in a trade could properly address the areas of need on the team. Right now you the team has to make a choice: 1) you run the Carter on Wing experiment for a year, 2) you trade him while his value is high to address the team needs on the wing and or in goal, 3) you ignore everything and continue to have almost $17mil invested in your top 3 centers.
pshht like the flyers will ever do anything about the goalie situation. here’s to hoping that Backlund, Bob, or Eriksson can be the answer soon
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t agree. That puts a lot of pressure on the HBL line and the remaining scoring forwards to produce. It would certainly force the team to acquire another 2nd/3rd line winger. The team would also have to switch to a 2 scoring line 2 checking line squad.
by tmurder on Jul 21, 2010 4:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You’re assuming that the team doesn’t acquire a winger or cap space in the trade.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
True but I’m only assuming that because his post said the team could trade Carter and not be depleted offensively. He didn’t mention any return so neither did I. Obviously the return has a lot to do with it but strictly removing Carter for this lineup would weaken the team offensively.
by tmurder on Jul 21, 2010 4:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, yes. Agreed.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I find it odd that I am so willing to trade Carter for organizational needs, but I am. We have a young, 35 goal a year scorer that I don’t really value for the team. Maybe it was how well the team played this year in the playoffs without him, but I just don’t seem him as being critical to this team. Maybe I need to consider the fact that the playoff competition wasn’t exactly the best of the best in the East this year, and that to beat the Pens and Caps of the world, the Flyers do need Carter. But even so, I still feel his most valuable asset is being able to bring back a young scoring winger in return along with some cap space or a goaltender.
Either way, my willingness to send him packing leave me a bit unnerved.
Is this the right room for an argument?
See, I agree with that too. But taking him out of the lineup leaves a severe hole in goal-scoring and matchup problems.
But now that Gagne is gone, Carter is needed on this team. Unless, of course, he brings a Parise back. Which he won’t.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I backed my position with the expectation of Zherdev filling Gagne’s shoes. If that happens we are in the same position we were with Gagne on the team. So being right back to square one we can then assume Carter is still the odd center out. And yes I would expect a healthy return for Carter as I expected last year when I wanted him traded. This would include for me a goaltending prospect or up and comer like Bernier, Quick, Schnieder or Harding and a legitimate winger, obviously not a super star sniper, but a solid 2 way player that can score 20 goals a season.
Just Call Me "M"!
by M from Pdaddy on Jul 21, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Harding and the kings goalies can be ruled out as possible trade returns. The wild don’t have much in the way of cap space and I don’t think they have the winger we’d be looking for. And I don’t think the kings would trade either goalie just because Bernier isn’t quite ready for the number 1 role and Quick is a good cheap number 1 right now. Moving forward they will have to trade one but I don’t think that will be til at least the trade deadline probably not til after this season. Which leaves schneider who the canucks will probably look to trade and they could certainly use another skilled center to take heat of the sedins. The canucks also have a few good forward prospects/youngsters. They’d be a good team to call if Carter falters on the wing.
by tmurder on Jul 21, 2010 11:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Zherdev will not play one minute on the Penalty Kill.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 22, 2010 6:13 AM EDT up reply actions
We don’t need him on the PK. Betts, Lappy, Richards, Powe and Carter are more than enough.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 22, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Keeping Powe has helped, but I’d rather not concentrate more PK minutes on Richards and Carter, especially when we’ve got a lot of guys who can take a lot of stupid penalties. Richards and Carter should be fresh to dominate even strength.
Anyway, my point was that Gags value for the team > Zherdev’s.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 23, 2010 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand. But I’m getting tired of constantly harping on the same thing. haha I want to change the conversation.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I gave him C+/B-
Mainly because he would go from “F” to “A” and so on and so on all season long. Its more B- then C+ though.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
B
Huge regression from last year, offensively and defensively. I know I should use numbers to back that up but pretty sure it’s accurate anyway.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Geoff already provided the numbers to back up your thoughts, so it works ;)
Is this the right room for an argument?
Some other numbers I would consider relevant
2009 2010
GFON/60: 3.57 2.58
GAON/60: 2.59 2.64
Shots/MS: 2.53 1.97
PDO: 1030 995
His PDO in 2009 suggests he was going to regress, so maybe 2010 Jeff Carter is closer to the real Jeff Carter.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
His PDO in 2009 suggests he was going to regress, so maybe 2010 Jeff Carter is closer to the real Jeff Carter.
I didn’t say it, but I agree with that entirely. Last year was what Jeff Carter is: A 35-goal, 70-point player who’s average-to-above-average defensively.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Which isn’t terrible, but he shouldn’t be getting Backstrom/Koivu money for that. Something similar to Plekanec maybe? He is better offensively, but Carter is playing on a far better team.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Silly question, which Flyer didn’t have a down year in the regular season? richards, gagne, briere, hartnell, and carter all had lower production than 08-09. Giroux and JVR didn’t produce as much as expected. so who did produce more than expected? Carbomb?
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 5:40 PM EDT reply actions
lol, flash-in-the-pan that is an AHL starter at best or hidden gem? hmm….not a question I want to have about the starting goaltender on a team built to win the cup
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
What makes 09-10 their “down year” as opposed to 08-09 being “unsustainably high”?
Hartnell and Carter had career years in 08-09, while Gagne was actually healthy in 08-09.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
PDO
2009 2010
Richards: 1024 989
Gagne: 1024 997
Briere: 1036 995
Hartnell: 1026 992
Carter: 1030 995
So everyone should have a bit of an upswing, but not to their 2009 levels.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
All those numbers, save Richards’, show that they performed about as expected. Two 995s and a 997? That’s about 6 to 8 thousdandth’s of a percent off expected numbers.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
on that point we should have a point projection thread for season and try to predict outputs from all the flyers players
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 5:42 PM EDT reply actions
F
only because he didn’t lift the damn puck on that empty net in the end of the SCF game 6.
But actually he’s really good… but not clutch when it mattered.
by Ponchos FromPeru on Jul 21, 2010 6:40 PM EDT reply actions
Back when Gags was young
You guys would have run him out of town for his lack of playoff goals.
Sure it would have changed things if Carter potted those two shots. Doesn’t make him a playoff choker though. In the Pitt series, it was an unbelievable save from a goalie who was hot at the right time.
This year — well we had a number of opportunities, and that was probably the best one, but it’s not like he shot it into the stands. Niemi made the save and had some help from his D. That people who hold a grudge about it is beyond unfair to a guy hobbling around on 2 broken feet.
Carter had a mid season slump, along with the rest of the team. I mean seriously, this year who did not have a slump? But overall, he was the most consistent offensive threat we had, and showed up games where nobody else did offensively, and is along with that other goat (Leighton) the only reason that the Flyers made the playoffs.
There are plenty of things I disagree with management on, especially this year, but the one thing I 100% agree with is their view that Carter is our offensive MVP, and needs to be treated as such.
B+/A- for what he accomplished when he was healthy. In a year that had such an extreme of highs and lows, it seems from some of the comments that people forget that without Carter, there is no playoffs, and no miraculous run at the cup.
by Gizmoitus on Jul 21, 2010 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
it seems from some of the comments that people forget that without Carter, there is no playoffs, and no miraculous run at the cup.
Without Boucher there is no playoffs and no miraculous run at the Cup. But everyone just wants to waive him and not even play him in the AHL.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Problem is there isn’t any space for him in the ahl if the flyers sign say turco. Bob and backlund need the time in the ahl.
by tmurder on Jul 22, 2010 12:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
or Backlund needs time at NHL level. What more can Backlund do down there? become the next Neil Little?
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
speaking of Boosh, he had two or three incredible season saving saves
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s strange we have Flyers who had great regular seasons but terrible playoffs (Leighton, Carter) and Flyers who had terrible regular seasons but great playoffs (Hartnell, Briere). There was like only one consistent Flyer throughout the whole year and that was Pronger. The one game Pronger was off (game 5) was the one that did us in and put us behind the 8 ball.
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Kimmo take major offense to that statement. And i wouldn’t say Briere had a terrible regular season. he was our 3rd leading scorer in forward.
Also, Leighton was great up until the SCF’s. He dominated boston and the Habs. and was really great the 2 games we won. and the final 2 games were more on the defense shutting off and not leighton(who was let up to dry). I mean, that one 5-hole goal, that in any other game in any other situation would be swept under the rug, makes him inadequate as a starter.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
opps forgot Kimmo, kimmo was just being Kimmo. he is the invisible defenseman, which is a great thing to be. Leighton was pretty great in Montreal series and parts of Boston series but he was exposed multiple times in the finals and in game 7 against Boston. Go watch the replay of game 7 highlights and you will see the same problems that came to haunt leights in the finals. Sure he was great after the timeout but was terrible before.
Lappy and Betts of course were consistent. I was thinking more along the lines of our offense
by historywillbemade on Jul 21, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I wholeheartedly agree with JpH about Kimmo, I feel Kimmo is very consistent. And unless we’re going by point production as the sole definition of steady, I wholeheartedly add Betts and Lappy to the steady and consistent list. Briere and Carle probably deserve some credit there, too.
I’d also add that Pronger’s really off game in the first game against the Rangers at the end (Game 81, not 82), certainly put us behind the 8 ball as well, we didn’t need to be in that game 82 situation. I just wanted to make sure we remembered that it happened more than once., even though he was very steady all year.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 21, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Difference is you could see Gags work and lead shift in shift out. You could see a kid who at 21 years old was an Olympic Gold Medallist.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 22, 2010 6:15 AM EDT up reply actions
And the team now has 24 players (1 more than allowed) with $327k in cap space…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 21, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
or stuffing one in the minors? unless we convert bartulis back to the wing?
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
it’ll be Kimmo or Carel, you know, the guys that earn their money. Hate me for saying it, but we all know how homer works.
…..that said, we’ll trade Kimmo to Nashville for a 6th round pick and Wade Belak. Thats a homer trade
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
so Carle it is. I have bad feeling homer wants to trade Carle, which would be beyond stupid
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope Kimmo denies a trade. And since he has a NMC, he can’t be waived, sent to the minors so has no threats like Homer did with Gagne. A Dman has to be on the way out.. but I don’t know who.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 22, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
To be honest, I think one of the new acquisitions will be moved along. The only way Carle would be gone is if they really do have a some kind of “blockbuster” planned (of course, “blockbuster” is all relative – if the current trend in signing quality continues, we’ll trade for yet another center).
Kimmo’s here for good.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 22, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
isn’t betts supposedly out for 4 months? so does he go on LTIR?
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
i wasn’t sure of the rules on LTIR
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I know but I was trying to think like Homer by not doing the obvious to get to the 23 man roster (waiving cote)
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I've got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Homer’s plan on trading Carter without creating a negative fan reaction!!!!
Trade Carter (maybe add in Walker to shed some more salary) to Tampa Bay for Simon Gagne, a fan favorite winger who produced in the playoffs.
(those fans, they won’t remember that in a moment of genius, I, Homer, traded Gags to Tampa Bay first all along!!)
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 22, 2010 6:59 AM EDT reply actions
BSH scouting report on Carter
I am really starting to doubt the Hockey IQ of the members of this site.
Carter can’t pass.
Is poor defensively
A Chemistry Killer
Who chokes in the playoffs
As a bad work ethiic taking too many games off
Refuses to move to wing.
That about sums up some of the comments here. Seriously you got to be kidding. Carter is solid two way Center. The team in general had poor regular season both offensively and defensively. The Hartnell-Carter-Briere line never really got going. Richards who will probably get a higher grade dropped off about the same. If you wash out the 1st half of the season when the team was in complete disarray with the coaching change and all. All the players states will look a lot better leading into the Olympic break. Carter was huge in getting this team back into the playoffs position.
He scored 22 of his 33 goals while we were trailing or tied. And 4 goals when were up by only one. Those are meaningful goals. He also killed penalties. 60% of his pts scored were at even strength. He stats weren’t padded by the PP. Richards on the other had scored half his points of the PP.
I think he was our best even strength forward. And deserves a little more credit than he is getting around here. I gave him a B+. But to stay he had an average or below average is a bit harsh, Last year would have been a A to A+ and grade drop off seems fair.
The team in general had poor regular season both offensively and defensively.
Exactly, and we are grading them as individuals. I graded him harshly b/c everyone around here wanted to claim he is a 40 goal scorer. So, I graded him on the joke of that at a B-. But I would say he was a B in general b/c he didn’t have a great year offensively and didn’t have a good year defensively…why should I separate him from the team, and give him a pass. He was part of the teams poor performance. There were bright spots and there were some areas of concern for him. B isn’t a D, it’s not terrible.
That about sums up some of the comments here.
Right, SOME of the comments, and there have been positive comments too. Even with in the ones that are negative. Geoff and I discussed his value to the team, the outcome of that is that Carter is our offensive MVP in the current line up. I don’t see how that is ripping him apart. I understand you are focusing in on the few people that are bashing him on the playoffs in order to drive home your point; but no need to question their hockey IQ. Instead, question how they are letting their emotional response to individual memories cloud their overall view of Carter’s value.
Is this the right room for an argument?
One other thing…
It is possible, that people rip on Carter more b/c they think so much of his ability so they hold him to a higher standard. A person may give an A to a Betts b/c well, he is a 4th liner, and does that job superbly. But the same person may give Carter a C b/c they consider him an elite player that did not have an elite season. Carter is/was generally considered to be good in his own end, and his defensive numbers this year showed he had a bad season in that end. So if you consider Carter a solid two way center, you have to give him a hit for that, b/c that part of his game took a slide this year. Better players are held to higher standards. Maybe it’s not fair, but that may also explain the Carter ripping (along with the emotional stuff), and not that people have poor hockey IQ’s.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I think he was our best even strength forward.
He was on the ice for more opposition goals than Flyers goals, despite scoring all those “meaningful” ones you mention. If the team does better with you off the ice than on, you aren’t the best even-strength forward to me.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 22, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, no problem
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 22, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
problem is that you can see that Campbell deflects Carter’s shot. any way wow look at the pass from Giroux. great stuff
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
with two broken feet he couldnt get any zip on the puck, but jez – mid left side of the net was wide open -
found this history will be made bit -
that wasn’t the fleury save I was thinking of there was a better one in game 6 that would’ve put us up 4-0 at the time
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Trying to find it but it was a breakaway and Fleury robbed Carter with pad.
by historywillbemade on Jul 22, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
look on NHL.com highlights package for that game?
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 23, 2010 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
|
Philadelphia
|
82 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 88 |
|
New York Rangers
|
82 | 38 | 33 | 11 | 87 |
|
New York Islanders
|
82 | 34 | 37 | 11 | 79 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
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Tue 09/21 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Toronto
|
Thu 09/23 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Toronto
|
Fri 09/24 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Minnesota
|
Sat 09/25 | 8:00 PM EDT |
|
@
New Jersey
|
Tue 09/28 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
|
Chicago
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Wed 06/09 | OT - L 3 - 4 |
|
@
Chicago
|
Sun 06/06 | L 4 - 7 |
|
Chicago
|
Fri 06/04 | W 5 - 3 |
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Chicago
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Wed 06/02 | OT - W 4 - 3 |
|
@
Chicago
|
Mon 05/31 | L 1 - 2 |
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