Niemi said no!!!
by Slew Footing Sean on Jul 27, 2010 12:51 PM EDT
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PrintWith Antti Niemi scheduled for an arbitration hearing and the Blackhawks still in dire cap straits, I was contemplating the possibility of Niemi coming to join the Flyers. If Chicago recieves an unfavorable ruling from the arbitrator, then I could easily see them walking away from the settlement and letting Antti walk, making him an UFA. Considering the rather weak market for Goaltenders and the lack of teams looking for an unpgrade in net, let alone signing a full-blown starter, Niemi could be had at a very pallatable price. The cap space is there as long as a few expected demotions/waiver placements are made with players like Riley Cote, one of the extra defenseman, (most likely Matt Walker or Oskars Bartulis) and Brian Boucher, who's role would be filled by the signing of NIemi. I personally think this is a fantastic idea if it does come to fruition, which is no sure thing. Niemi won the Stanley Cup last season which shows he has what it takes to step up in the Playoffs, and he would also be the best Netminder on the market. He's not Ryan Miller or Roberto Luongo, but he's steady based on what I have seen, and he's a upgrade over Leighton, which with the defense the Flyers now posess, is all they really need.
What does everyone else think, were he to reach the open market, should the Flyers attempt to sign Antti NIemi?
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I don’t think the Flyers would have the cash to do it. If they waive Boosh/ Walker/ cote that leaves them around 2.5 million to sign a goalie and still have cap space safety cushion. I can see signing Turco for that much or less but not Niemi. Niemi probably has an offer from the Hawks worth more than we can pay him so why would he walk away from the Hawks offer if he can’t get anything better anywhere else. No one else is looking for a starting goalie and can afford Niemi. If Niemi is smart he’ll take a deal from the Hawks.
by historywillbemade on Jul 27, 2010 1:00 PM EDT reply actions
Your math is off.
Boucher = $925k
Walker = $1.7m
Cote = $550k
Plus the ~$300k the team has already, and that leaves ~$3.4 mil.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 28, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
note the line “and still have cap space safety cushion”. do you really want the Flyers to get that close to the cap? I say we should leave a cushion of 1-1.5 million in cap space for injury and trade deadline. Signing a goalie for more than 2.5 million is a bad idea.
by historywillbemade on Jul 29, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a big cushion…
But yes, I entirely agree they should leave space.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 30, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
In context, yes. When’s the last time the Flyers were $1 mil – $1.5 mil away from the cap? 2005-06?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Aug 1, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
But we all know the Flyers capologist position was awarded to the interviewee wearing the best baseball cap.
I’d like to see at least $1 million cushion, just so there is no serious drama when calling people up
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Jeff Carter ($5.000m) / Claude Giroux ($0.821m)
Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)
Darroll Powe ($0.725m)
DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Sean O’Donnell ($1.300m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) /Antti Niemi ($2.500m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,334,763; BONUSES: $937,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,002,737
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
That actual cushion of only $65,237 (when you don’t count the bonuses) scares the heck out of me. Sorry that I sound like a broken record, but if it were hypothetically to be JVR who gets injured and we need to call up a replacement, we really only get $875K back to work with because we lose most of the cushion and it’s not money we can spend on real salary…. I know we can fit all our AHL guys in that little window, but I’m still scared by it. It’s not directed at you personally, I just can’t handle that 65K number.
by DragonGirl0583 on Aug 3, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions
If the price could somehow be right, surely he’s a better option than Turco.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Too Small Sample Size
39 GP with 35 GS. I know he was 26-7-4, but I still don’t trust a goalie after one break out season. It’s the same boat with Leights in my opinion, although Leights has played a lot more. Let’s say last year was his first and he only played for the Flyers: 27 GP, 26 GS, 16-5-2.
I know I’m being unrealistc ignoring his past, but shit, his GAA was almost the same as Niemi’s and his SV% was better (again only counting games in Philly). Put a strong defense in front of anyone and they look great. Just my opinion.
"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."
Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson
Word
Admittedly Chicago is in a worse cap position than the Flyers, but if he wants more money than they can afford, I doubt the Flyers have enough cap to fit him in.
Plus I don’t like his pads
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
too bland. but atleast he has a cool nickname in Nemo.
by historywillbemade on Jul 27, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The funny thing about the word nemo is that it’s actually Latin and it means “nobody,” so Finding Nemo actually means “Finding Nobody.”
…Sorry. That’s basically the sum of what taking Latin in high-school gets you.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Not true!
Taking Latin in high school can get you a job for life in the US and the UK. I know from personal experience! ;)
(P.S. “Nemo” does indeed mean “nobody”. A+ for you today. :) It is also why Jules Verne named the captain of the Nautilus in ‘20,000 Leagues Under The Sea’ “Captain Nemo” – he knew his Latin.)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 27, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, my BFF is a latin teacher at a private school, so it actually can take you someplace. I do like to make fun of her, however, in that outside of the written word (and understanding origin/construction of the words we do use in English), it’s pretty much a useless language.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Your parenthetical comment is why it will always be a relevant field of study. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 27, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m teaching myself latin because it is at the root of many scientific terms
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Learn the Greek roots too – they are just as useful.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 28, 2010 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Boy, won’t you be eating your words when your flux capacitor malfunctions and your time machine is stuck in ancient Rome.
It’s an interesting idea, but I have to think that Chicago will come to terms with Niemi, and I agree that we’re not going to get him for what we can afford to pay. It would certainly be a crazy situation to have the two goalies that faced each other in the SCF the year before sharing the net.
But wouldn’t it be nice? Won the cup, but had to sell off half your team as soon as you won, Oh and by the way…We got your goalie, We got your goalie, Nah-Nah-Na-Nah-Nah, We got your goalie!
Or the Eddie Murphy version: You can’t have your goalie, you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it, cause you ain’t got the cap space, you can’t afford it…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
I’ll take winning the Cup and having the team disassembled over not winning the Cup. Honestly.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
If we had been waiting 49 years between Cups, I probably would agree.
At this point, I’d rather have our playoff history overall than theirs. I could have a different opinion in 13-to-14-years time – ask me again then…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 27, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps, but They are in worse cap shape than we are…Walker to AHL, Cote to AHL, Waive Boosh and suddenly we have enough to triple his salary from last year, a 300% raise is nothing to sneeze at, maybe just get him to agree for 2 years then re-do his deal…
Chicago is already OVER by more than 400k, they have some serious moving to do just to get to the point where they could double his salary…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
Waiving Cote doesn’t seem to be something that has ever been considered. I also don’t believe holmgren will waive walker considering that he was just acquired.
by tmurder on Jul 27, 2010 7:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thank you Fezzy that’s what i was trying to say. The cap space is not
the problem in my view, it’s whether he reaches unrestricted free
agency in the first place. His price will come down from where it is
know if the Blackhawks walk away from the ruling because of what will
be a lack of demand for Niemi’s services, so he could in fact be had
at a palatable price for the Flyers
by Slew Footing Sean on Jul 27, 2010 9:39 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t know if his price will fall to far, and if it does it will probably only be for a one year deal.
by tmurder on Jul 28, 2010 12:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s starting to bug me that so many people toss out “waive walker, cote, boucher” as the solution to all our cap problems like it’s some trivial thing. It’s almost being treated like it’s the equivalent of duct tape (or WD-40, depending on what you want to do) for our team. Is it really that simple? Isn’t there some value to keeping those guys around?
Discuss! :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
OK…Yes, Cote has been useful in filling a seat in the press box for about a season and a half, he has also been useful in providing a stabilizing ballast at one end of the bench so when the PLAYERS sit at the other end, it does not fly up and hurt someone (a position now to be fulfilled by Jody Shelley (At More than TWICE the cost)…
Walker? We had signed a Veteran, Defensively Sound 6th Defenseman in Sean O’Donnell for a perfectly acceptable Cap Hit of $1.3M…What possible use could we have in obtaining a 7th defenseman for $1.7M…O’Donnell,Prongs, & Timmo’s influence should be more than enough to help mature Bartulis into a position where he can be effective in a top 6 role by next season…And should someone need A game off, or gets injured, Bartulis should be able to fill in, I think he would be just fine in that role (when not paired with Ryan Parent).
Boucher? I love the guy more than my luggage, but let’s be honest, he is at the tail end of his career, and I think everyone would agree he would be the odd-man-out when upgrading the goalie situation…Any move involving an upgrade at goalie would require us to shed Boucher’s $925K Cap Hit, even if it was just to bring Backlund up to share the net with Leighton…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
Cote provides nothing. Walker right now is insurance against someone getting hurt in camp or early on. I think if all works out he will be waived by the TDL. If another NHL goalie is acquired, such as Turco, Boucher is the odd-man out because Leighton was just re-signed and teams don’t carry 3 goalies.
by tmurder on Jul 28, 2010 10:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don;t see them making a goalie move at all now. Niemi would have been a nice pick up, but I don’t see it. He can be used as trade bait by them to acquire picks or cheaper players. Picks we no longer have.
As for trading Boosh… All the arguments for keeping him are similar to the ones some people used when they signed leighton. He played very well in the end stretch and in the playoffs as well. He’s a solid backup as well. Sure I would have preferred a better tandem, but then again, I doubt I would have re-signed Leighton and have been in this spot.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
I don’t think Niemi is that good he could be the flash in the pan big contract goalie the fucks a franchise forever like Thomas, Raycroft, Huet and the slew of others before him. Is he an upgrade over Leighton like everyone says that is not hard to do, is he worth 3-4 million dollars more than twice of Leighton makes no way. I think Backlund is going to be better than Niemi long term and I rather have a short term upgrade to Leighton cheap than a long term high contract gate opener.
It looks like the Price for Niemi would be from 2-3 million. From what I’ve seen he was offered 2, and his agent wants 3. If Chicago walks away, then the Flyers might have a crack at him, and Chicago is now talking to Turco, so this could be an interesting turn of events, where the Flyers can drive up the Hawks costs on Turco and Niemi simply by talking to both of them.
The Flyers can drive up the cost for Turco since they have more cap flexibility than the Hawks but should niemi walk then Turco would be guaranteed starting job in Chicago whereas he would likely have to compete with Leights here. Most goalies prefer being clear starter over having to compete.
by historywillbemade on Jul 29, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course only time will tell, but Niemi was really good in the SJ series. The Flyers seemed to have his number a bit in the SCF, but it might also have been a case of the pressure finally getting to him a bit. In the earlier rounds, he was really good, and obviously during the regular season he won the starting job.
he arguably stole game 2 for the hawks in the scf as well. and he didn’t have any “leighton” softies
by historywillbemade on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya know, Brodeur let in a couple of ‘soft’ goals in the playoffs this year (and every year) … should we just say, “Ahh, he’s no good” on the basis of ONE GOAL??? Goalies are people too, and they make mistakes. And looking at Leighton’s numbers in the regular season, the guy has some REAL potential. He’s the right age to blossom, he’s been around long enough to know what it takes to compete, and he has (no matter how you cut it) a positively stellar defense in front of him. I predict the first GAA below 2.00 since the rule changes! :) (And Santa, I also want a redhead in my stocking.)
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Niemi had a couple softies in the SCF, don’t justify his average goaltending in the finals as anything more than it was simply because Michael Leighton looked like Vesa Toskala.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 30, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Why would they do that? Niemi is no substantial upgrade from Michael Leighton. Let’s not forget that Niemi wasn’t anything special, just was a tad better than Leighton, and that’s not hard to do based on how Leights played in the SCF. Niemi only looked good because he won the cups with the Hawks, and honestly, Alex Auld could’ve won it with the the team Chicago had this season. Niemi is nothing special, and I’d rather just save the money and keep Leighton. The Flyers need to get a proven starter. Marty Turco should be their only option, unless they can pull off a trade.
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