Would you like to see Antti Niemi as the Flyers starting goalie?
by Travis Hughes on Jul 29, 2010 7:46 PM EDT
in Commentary
Email
Print
When it comes to who's going to be the goaltender next season for the Philadelphia Flyers, it doesn't seem like there's too many options left. Obviously, Michael Leighton is the guy if the season were to start today, but I think 90 percent of us can agree that if Paul Holmgren has any smarts left in his brain, he'd be wise to go after one of the goalies still on the market.
That group, of course, is thin in terms of talent. In reality, it only includes Jose Theodore and Marty Turco. Turco seems the best bet, while Theodore could perhaps be out of the Flyers price range, but then again, the number of teams looking for goalies drives down the price on any of these guys.
There is one more name that could be set to appear on the horizon, however, and he's a familiar face. The name is Antti Niemi, and as his arbitration hearing with the Chicago Blackhawks came to a close today, the noise surrounding the proceedings seem to suggest that the arbitrator's ruling may not necessarily settle things.
If the Hawks deem the figure awarded for the one-year deal too high they could let Niemi walk as an unrestricted free agent and move in a different direction at a critical position. They also could accept the ruling and later trade Niemi or another player for some relief for their serious salary-cap issues.
General manager Stan Bowman confirmed the same in a press conference tonight with the media, saying that the arbitrator is expected to rule on Saturday and that the three options for the club are acceptance, flat out rejection or a trade. If Chicago decides that they can't fit Niemi into their tight, salary-capped plans, he'll be out of town one way or another. Would you like to see Philadelphia on the end of his plane ticket?
As the Tribune blurb there alluded to, Niemi could arrive in Philadelphia two ways. If Chicago flat out rejects the arbitrator's ruling, the Blackhawks can walk away and Niemi will become an unrestricted free agent. From there, how many teams are looking to sign a goalie? The Flyers and the Blackhawks? It's not a long list.
And the same thing goes in terms of the trade market. Perhaps a team with room to take on a little salary could give up a lower paid goalie in a trade for Niemi, thus solving the Blackhawks goalie problems. But in terms of a trade market for Niemi, there isn't much there.
The Flyers would have the upper hand in those talks with the Blackhawks, and in the same vein as the Gagne trade, any negotiatons with the Blackhawks are begun with the knowledge that Bowman and his team don't have much flexibility.
Of course, this is all conjecture. We don't know if the Flyers are going to go after Niemi if he becomes available, and we don't know if the Flyers are going to go after any goalie at all. The question we're asking is would you like them to do so?
Niemi does have one thing the other goalies on the market don't have, and no, the answer isn't a Stanley Cup (although he obviously has one of those, too). He's young, and that's something that can't be said for Turco or Theodore or even Leighton, to an extent -- Leights is 29 while Niemi is 26, for the record.
He's not Martin Brodeur, and I think we can all agree on that at this point, but his potential is sky high and he's already won a Stanley Cup. You can't argue with success. He's proven that he can with stand the pressure of the NHL playoffs and he even displayed absolute brilliance at times. He has the potential to be a great goaltender in the NHL, and he could be open and up for grabs in just a few days.
But does the money work? The reports are saying that Niemi wants between $3 and $4 million, and that's obviously a pretty hefty chunk of change that the Flyers don't have. Say the Blackhawks reject the arbitrator's ruling and he becomes a UFA, though. The market dictates that Niemi should get a lot less than that type of money. Could he, like Turco and Theodore, be willing to take less money to have a job?
There are plenty of questions still out there, but in the meantime, after weighing all the options and the consequences, would you like to see Antti Niemi find his way to town?
126 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
it that falls though
And Chi let him go, Id love to see the Sharks pick him up.
The bad blood would make for good hockey, but will also inspire great blog thread reading until the hockey starts
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 29, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 30, 2010 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions
NO
Salary and cap hit wise, it would be hard to make it work.
Plus, I don’t think he’s that good of a goaltender.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
good enough to win a cup i suppose
but i generally dislike that type of argument (good enough to win a cup ones)
He gave up 5 goals in Game 1
3 less in the entire series. That works out to 1/2 per game.
As a Hawks fan I’d take Niemi at a good price, but be just as happy with Turco
nothin but smiles
my Captain is better than your Captain
It all depends on the price
Im starting to settle into the idea that IF we keep the goalies we have, our elete D should be able to do 40% of their work.
That said Im all for upgrading our Goalie, but only at the right price.
Homer didnt leave us any room to overspend.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
Very comparable to Leights, but not much better. Stacked teams make ok goalies look like Vezina winners.
"Can Geico really save you 15% or more on your car insurance? Is Mike Green really a forward in defenseman's clothing"
It would be an upgrade over Leights and provide LOLs but I don’t see it happening. If Hawks don’t get ruling they want 2.5 million or less than Niemi will walk but we don’t have the money to pay him and I could see him running off to Europe rather than taking the same money from the Flyers that the Hawks (team he won cup w/) have offered. I think I’d like Niemi as a Flyer but Turco seems like a better possibility at this point, but if Niemi walks, turco might sign in Chicago. So it seems like the whole goalie market is dependent on the outcome of the arbitration. I think Homer would talk to Niemi if he becomes UFA but since Niemi wants more than we can afford then chances our we go with Leights or Turco.
by historywillbemade on Jul 29, 2010 8:00 PM EDT reply actions
I, too, see him ending up in Europe if the Hawks simply walk away. While I’d say I’d like to see him with the Flyers if the price was right, if that took place, we’d end up seeing a Leighton/Niemi tandem, which throws the possibilities for Backlund out the window. And the Flyers cannot simply throw Backlund out the window at this point.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Why can’t they throw backlund out the window if they have leights and niemi? Backlund has proven far less than those two. And aside from this season leights and niemi have done nothing. Backlund isn’t too young and he wouldn’t be necessary if the team could get niemi. Kicking backlund to the curb better not be the only thing that would stop the flyers from getting niemi.
by tmurder on Jul 29, 2010 10:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Backlund has proven far less than those two
He did look pretty good in that ~20 mins he did play though. Niemi will demand too much money for what he is really worth.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Wow 20 mins. He’s going to leadus to the promised land. All kidding aside backlund has some promise but if the team can fit niemi in without losing anyone other than a few from this group: boosh, cote, walker, shelley, bartulis, it would be foolish not to. Niemi looked amazing throughout the playoffs until the finals when he meerly outplayed the guy at the other end of the ice.
by tmurder on Jul 29, 2010 11:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, if you sign Turco/Niemi, certainly you find another NHL club for Boucher. I agree that Shelley would appear to take Riley Cote’s roster spot (I say “would” because Homer’s stupid like that). Walker: not going anywhere. Shelley: definitely not going anywhere. Bartulis: perhaps not going anywhere. Homer sounded like he actually was interested in trying to carry 8 D-men. Maybe he needs a fourth pairing to guard the press cafeteria cake for him until he can sneak up there after the game or something?
Niemi looked amazing throughout the playoffs until the finals
Sounds a little like Leighton, yet people are coming out of the walls to bash him.
when he meerly outplayed the guy at the other end of the ice.
That’s not exactly a ringing endorsement. I mean, a big argument against Leighton, and I understand it’s very stupid, but people say he can’t perform or step up at the big junctures (i.e., he choked). Quite honestly, Niemi wasn’t so much better than Leighton or anything… and if Leighton was the one making a couple more saves and Niemi was on the losing end of the Stanley Cup, people in Chicago would be saying the same thing about Niemi’s performance and pointing to him giving up five goals in game one or whatever, whether or not the goals were his fault.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
by Ben Feldman on Jul 29, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah you missed the obvious snark. Backlund hasn’t had the chance to prove himself.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Furthermore, if you read any of the comments on Second City Hockey, they all realise that Niemi didn’t have a lot to do with their Stanley Cup win and they are happy to replace him.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
I don't know about "happy"...
more like “resigned” and “unwilling to pay 4mil because DAMNIT ZITO have you seen our cap space? wtf are you thinking”.
Niemi is a decent goalie with amazing mental toughness, and we know he contributed to the win but not enough to justify the amount of money that he (allegedly) is asking for.
Damn cap space
We also realize that if we keep Niemi we may have to lose other players. Sharp is always number one that people talk about in trades, and we would rather keep him and see Niemi go. I guess you could call us realists at this point.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Kicking Backlund to the curb, along with the probable cost for signing, ought to be the reasoning for why not to sign Niemi. Age is irrelevant — we had a tremendous FanPost a few weeks ago about just how often it takes several years for goalies to really come into their own. But even that’s irrelevant for Backlund, who spent his earlier years putting up good to very good numbers at Leksands and later Timra in the Elitserien (SEL) — not exactly a cakewalk league — perhaps look at the Wild’s Backstrom as a better analogy. He then was the MVP of the Phantoms for ‘09-10, which at first glance one might think isn’t saying much, but he’s basically the only reason the Phantoms won 32 games and not 11. Niemi had experience in the less-talented Finnish SM-liiga where he put up decent to good numbers prior to being drafted and eventually moving on to the AHL. I’m not going to sit here and tell you that it’s so obvious Backlund is better than Niemi, or anything. But Backlund is a very solid prospect who, as Todd says, performed pretty well in his 40 minutes of real action, especially considering he was playing injured (popped a groin), and was facing the Penguins in his first ever NHL action — and if the difference between the best AHL team, Hershey, and the worst teams in the NHL, Edmonton and the Islanders, is so great, imagine the difference between Hershey and Pittsburgh! In any case, it is unclear how much better Niemi is than Backlund, and when you factor in the contracts, it doesn’t make sense. Plus, the Flyers do not have legitimate goalie prospects ready for their first full-time NHL job very often … really, the last players like that were Cechmanek (who was also 29 at the time he was ready) and Boucher. Let’s pretend like we’ve been here before and not panic and demand the Flyers throw this prospect away because they can pay a lot more for a guy whose advantages over the prospect are not 100% clear, and are certainly not 100% demonstrable.
…Besides, Bobrovsky will be ready in a year or two anyway. Or should we throw him away, too, because we can totally have that guy who let in five goals instead of six goals over some youngster who “only” put up outstanding numbers in front of by far the worst team in the KHL? (sorry, I didn’t mean to make this all heated and angry, but I wish people would give our best opportunity at developing a legitimate goalie a chance to, you know, prove himself)
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
by Ben Feldman on Jul 29, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
THIS!!!
I really didn’t know much about Backlund’s background (all I knew he was in the SEL and did well). I was keeping my eye on him last year in the Phantoms and I think did a great job, especially having to get used to North American hockey. I really think that he’ll have a great shot to be our starter before the start of the 2011-12 season.
Plus as you said we have Bob, so if he doesn’t work out we’ll have him. I am not afraid of our goalie prospects (somebody someday will HAVE to work out, not all can be busts like we’ve had for how long??). For now I think Backlund should be given a chance to compete for the NHL and see how he does in training camp and see how he does.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will truly be missed.
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 30, 2010 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
i'd be fine with niemi for a year
but your points are excellent. Niemi means bye bye Boucher, but as-is I don’t know if Backlund makes the team over Boucher anyway, and I definitely don’t think we carry 3 goalies. So, if it’s for a 1 year deal, and Backlund and Bobrovsky are splitting AHL games with a few NHL game callups for Backlund anyway, in a vacuum I’d rather have Niemi than Boucher.
If we’re not in a vacuum, and are in a room that has some dirt lying around with a broken Hoover lying in the corner, I’d want Niemi at slightly more than Leighton money — $1.8m for 1 year or 2 years. I suspect that’s impossible. I would be able to swallow up to $2.5m or so, but anything more and we get to having to give up portions of the roster we just so painstakingly put together.
Were we watching the same game?
I do not want to sound like I’m throwing Backlund under the bus, but he did not look good in those 40 minutes. He kept coming far out of the net or behind the net to play the puck and it just looked awkward and stiff, and very dangerous. I remember this because I really wanted to see him get his turn on the goaltender merry-go-round and then wasn’t too thrilled. A lot of that could be nerves or the fact that his groin tightened up, but I always get confused when people say he looked good in that game.
by tinmansstory on Jul 30, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you really want to judge a goalie after 40 minutes (did he even play that much) of presence in the NHL? Like… seriously?
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Ben is judging him positively after 40 minutes. It’s only fair that tinmansstory be allowed to judge him negatively after the same.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 30, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh. I guess that didn’t come across as sarcasm or whatever. No, I don’t believe you can judge a goalie based on 40 minutes in the NHL.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
by Ben Feldman on Jul 30, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I read your post as your stock in Backlund being based on his performance on the Phantoms and in the SEL, I didn’t read it as based on the 40minutes…
in case you were wondering hahaha.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Im inventing the 7 minute Goalie evaluation workout
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 30, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
What if someone comes up with a 6 minute Goalie evaluation workout?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 30, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying he won’t cut it; I’d like to see him get another shot. I’m just saying, I’ve read a lot of defenses of Backlund as “he looked good in those 40 minutes” and I disagree.
by tinmansstory on Jul 30, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
“we can totally have that guy who let in five goals instead of six goals”…technically speaking Boosh let up the gw goal in 2 of 4 loses including the 6th goal in game 1.
by historywillbemade on Jul 30, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
DING.
For all that people gripe about Holmgren trading away picks, it is truly mind-boggling that one they actually have a developing prospect they seemingly should “kick him to the curb”. Frankly, I think that Backlund’s season last year was more impressive than Niemi’s, Stanley Cup or not.
Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Backlund’s name doesn’t appear on either the Flyers official roster, or the Phantoms. Anyone have his actual stats from last season in the AHL?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Johan Backlund, Adirondack Phantoms: 41 GP, 21-17-2, 2.79 GAA, .906 SV% on 1216 shots against, 2 shutouts, 2 PIM, 1 assist. 2,451 minutes played.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Thanks – where’d you find it? Or do you just store such facts in your head? :)
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/b/backljo01.html
It’s generally only good for players that have played in an American league, but if they’ve played here, it’ll usually include their European stats as well (for example, Hasek’s page includes his seasons in the Czech Republic).
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Geoff also did an excellent article about the amount of Backlund quality starts the Phantoms wasted which is very good.
Johan Backlund: Quality Behind, Phantom Defense
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Considering we are paying Bobrovsky $5.25M over the next 3 years (more than Dan Ellis signed for in Tampa Bay AND more than Biron signed for in New York), he had BETTER be ready in the next year or two, the guy is making NHL back-up money now to play in the minors.
I think Backlund needs a chance to play, I have said it before and I will repeat myself. There is EVERY possibility that Backlund comes into camp and outplays BOTH Leights and Boosh…If so then all of this debate becomes moot.
As for Niemi, it would appear that the Hawks are thinking about $2M, his agent is thinking $3M…If they walk from the decision, I would have no problem offering him 2-3 years at $2.5M (that would triple his salary, and it is about the same money they are trying to lure Turco with, difference being Niemi wasn’t in the league when dirt was still new…Turco was…
All that aside, I would be perfectly comfortable to play out the year with Leights/Boosh now that we have not 6, NOT 7, BUT 8 (really? 8?!) NHL Caliber Defensemen in front of them, instead of the 4.5 we had last year (I am counting Bartulis/Parent/Krajicek as about 1/2 and NHL Caliber Defenseman)…
But…I Digress…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
You realize Bobrovsky is making $67,500 per year to play in the minors, right? No, that’s not a typo. He’s making $67,500 in the minors.
He’s not getting NHL backup money to play in the minors. If and when he plays in the NHL, he’ll get $900,000 per year, plus up to $850,000 in performance bonuses. So, in terms of strict salary, he is paid less than Boucher.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 30, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just about to go grab these numbers and respond…thank you , as always, Mr. Detweiler.
Is this the right room for an argument?
haha, no problem.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 30, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Geoff,
I do see that now, in the team salary chart he is just listed with a $1.75M cap hit, but i did find the complete breakdown when looking at his contract individually…
Well if nothing else, the Niemi decision should help to bring Turco back to reality when he see’s what the SC winning goalie gets per year…
Personally I would take either of them for 2 (no more than 3) years at a hit of $2.5M, BUT…I would certainly prefer to have one of our ‘Home Grown’ guys step up and take the reigns…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
Yeah, it’s tricky. That’s why CapGeek is so awesome.
As far as home grown guys, I’m in that boat entirely.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 30, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah home grown guys…I would love to see it. I often lump the fact that management rarely leaves room for the “home grown” guys to make the roster in with my complaints of the farm system, even though that might not be the right bucket. Our farm system still has much to be desired of it, but at the same time, it’s hard for our home grown talent to make an impact on the big club, with their cap friendly hits, when management constantly clogs up roster spots with Shelley and Walker type contracts. Even though I wished Homer didn’t jump at Leights so early, I’ll be happy if he lets a home grown solution try to earn a spot for once.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I am disturbed that the yes’s are currently leading.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
by ToddtheFox on Jul 29, 2010 8:10 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
its like a Fox News poll on election night
don’t worry about the early results
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 29, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
202 votes, half the people want Niemi. Can I be disturbed now?
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
I hereby give you the keys to the chicken coop
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 29, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
meh
people often vote before thinking. i voted “yes” because i like niemi as a player and would like him as a flyer, but not on more than a 1 year deal or so, and anything beyond a cheap 1 year deal changes my vote to “no.”
So, in theory I’d like to see him a Flyer, but in practice I
A) recognize it’s not likely
B) recognize if it did happen it would probably be in such a way as to make me angry
I don’t see him as being that much of an upgrade over Leighton to justify what he will likely cost.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
It’s all about “to justify what he will likely cost”.
Plus, it then makes “I don’t see Leighton as being that much of an upgrade over Boucher to justify what he costs” equally true.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 29, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
600K greater than Boucher is all Leighton is costing the sports world I don’t think you can say giving Leighton 600K over Boucher is a ringing endorsement that Leighton is much better. It is 600K for gods sakes that practically Cote’s salary.
600K is what Leighton made last year. You constantly gripe about how little that cap space is, but that’s a whole other player! That’s an injury call-up. That’s not being so close to the cap that you have to waive Metro and Vaananen, and trade Upshall.
Right now, the Flyers have ~$327k in cap space. That $600k allows you to fit Mike Testwuide and ANY OTHER PHANTOM under the cap without losing a roster player. Suddenly, that $600k is immensely important, even if you continue to belittle the amount.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 30, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I will continue to belittle 600K no way Mike Testwuide need to be called up without putting someone on IR. The problem was with Danny and the whole Upshall thing was that we traded for Carle with Danny on the IR. Sending Downie and Eminger for Carle cost us over 2 million on the cap. Room we didn’t have when Danny was to be called back. That had nothing to do with the way the team was set up from the get go and the little cap space we started the season with.
The 327K in cap space is with 24 roster players. Testwuide will only get called up if more than 3 players can’t play. As long as we don’t trade for any salary with guys on the IR we won’t run into that problem again.
You’re ignoring that the $600k is cost in a hypothetical scenario of Leighton being the backup to Turco instead of Boucher. So you’re using the salary from Boucher + Cote ($1.475 mil) to pay for Turco. Suddenly, you’re once again at 23 players, and you can’t sign Turco for any more than $1.8 mil, leaving $2,000 in cap space.
Bam! That $600k is once again HUGE. How can you not grasp that $600,000 spent upgrading your BACKUP goalie while also upgrading your defense and your starting goalie despite having NO cap space is a huge deal?
You want Turco to sign for $1.5 mil? You only have $300k in cap space, a full 23 man roster, and no healthy forward scratches. So you put Betts on LTIR while he rehabs, and he only gets you $700k. But if you had $600k that you didn’t spend upgrading your backup goalie, you suddenly have $900k in cap space PLUS Betts’ $700k in LTIR money.
But no, if the Flyers sign Turco for $1.5 mil while waiving Boucher and Cote, they have $300k in cap space with 23 players. Wait, 22 healthy players, since Betts will be on LTIR. AGAIN, the Flyers are right up against the cap because they went out and spent $600k unnecessarily on Michael Leighton.
But “we won’t run into that problem again”.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 30, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
forgetting that you can waive Walker.
by historywillbemade on Jul 30, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
So you can pay a guy $1.275 mil not to play? Ignoring the fact that you just traded for him?
Yeah, you can waive Walker and have more cap space. But then why trade for him? Still, $600k is nothing to scoff at for a team that’s right up against the cap.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 30, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
My response is to this comment by you Geoff nothing about Turco
Plus, it then makes "I don’t see Leighton as being that much of an upgrade over Boucher to justify what he costs" equally true
I think Leighton deserves to be paid in the 1.5 – 2 million dollar range we all discussed this when is contract was up and that being a fair deal. If you are the GM and try to pay hardball with guys when it comes to 400K or 200K you are not going aren’t going to be able to sign any UFAs, like all the penny pinching teams in the league.
No matter how you spin it or try to break it down 600K is 1/60th of the cap, there are plenty of guys who much more grossly overpaid than 600K throughout the league and on this team and plenty of places where the could have made up that money not get Mez or Walker or Shelly I can understand complaining over those moves which came after Leighton was signed but complaining about 600K raise for Leighton based on what other guys signed 24hrs later is a joke and shows you bias against this guy.
If I told you going into Game 6 the Flyers re-signed Leighton for 1.55 million for 2 years you would have been calling Homer a genius. Two weeks later and one bad memory later that 600K raise for Leighton is all of a sudden insane and unthinkable.
You are completely missing the point.
If Leighton is your starter at $1.55 mil, fine. But if you go sign Turco, you just spent $600k upgrading your backup goalie for nothing. And that $600k is huge when you consider it’s double the amount of cap space the Flyers currently have.
Everything else you said we’ve been over 17 times.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 30, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don’t bother anymore.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 31, 2010 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I think I’m done too. It’s infuriating to discuss a topic then have him completely ignore your point(s), go off on his own tangent that has little to nothing to do with the topic, and then have him take a shot at you.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I get your point no reason to keep Leighton as a backup when you Boosh for 600K less. That is probably why they won’t sign Turco or Theodore.
But this is all after the fact.
They tried to sign Turco at 2 million before they signed Leighton. The fact the Turco is available now for 1.5 after the fact was not expected and like you said probably too late now just like the Biron thing. It is now after the fact to bash the Leighton signing based on the somewhat surprising events that followed.
I will concede they miss read the market as a lot of people did. At it cost them say 600K but it could have been worse. So I am not going to go nuts over a mere 600K. I am sure Leighton came to the table asking for more than 1.55.
man, after I was the only person who said that I was fine with leighton as our starter for weeks, I vote yes, and almost every comment is about how they don’t want niemi. I mean it’s a long shot, but he is an upgrade.
saying "F**k Homer" since 7-19-10
I seem to be in the giant minority that is ok with Leighton in net. But, think about what Holmgren said the main priority was this off-season: to get a young goaltender possibly for the future. Niemi fits that.
Flyers, the only Philly team that matters
Niemi?
I thought about this question and I’d have to say yes. The Western Conference has many more offensively charged teams and in the Eastern Conference, he may do better. With Niemi and Leighton as the goalies, it would be a nice goalie tandem. Plus, he’s younger than the other guys.
You must not have watched that much of the playoffs games. Niemi won the hawks several games a la game 2 of the scf
by tmurder on Jul 29, 2010 11:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He killed against the Sharks in round 3. That was probably the best he played during the playoffs.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
Sharks can’t score ever in the playoffs beating the Sharks doesn’t count. Just like beating the Caps in a Game 7 at the Verizon center.
by chrislanci on Jul 30, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they sign Niemi the money could be easily cleared. First, Boucher would obviously be waived since you only need 2 goalies. Then I’m assuming they would waive Riley Cote since he has been essentially replaced by Jody Shelley and then Matt Walker can be waived since he is an extra defenseman with a hefty cap hit. That means the Flyers can offer Niemi a contract with a cap hit of around 2.6 million and still have enough money to bring up an entry level player during the season like they did with Giroux a few years ago, although this time they wouldn’t need to trade Upshall to have that space.
by Slew Footing Sean on Jul 29, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions
…but will Niemi take that much. I’m pretty sure Chicago already offered him that much and if he gets awarded more than that he’ll want that amount (3-4 million). Why would he sign with us at 2.6 million if the he could resign with the Hawks, you know that he helped win the cup, for that same amount?
by historywillbemade on Jul 29, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
because the market is almost non-existent for goalies, so he would have to sign for a little less than what he probably deserves if he wants to stay in the NHL
by Slew Footing Sean on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
well then he really is an idiot for not taking what Chicago offered. No way he gets the money he wants in the NHL just like Turco looks dumb for turning down the Flyers offer of 2 million/ year bc he likely will get no more than that
by historywillbemade on Jul 29, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Turco looks super dumb because he went from 3 year deal 2 mil per to being forced into retirement.
by tmurder on Jul 29, 2010 11:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
After all the trades the hawks made he may think the flyers are the better team. Thus money being equal why not sign with the better team?
by tmurder on Jul 29, 2010 11:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
2 words Jeff Reese
I know everyone is saying hes not that much of an upgrade of Leights, but isn’ t he coming off his ROOKIE year, while Leighton is aging? I mean i’m not all for this theoretical move, but the upside to it certainly is age, if Reese could make Leights look lights out for most of his games (minus one, but that’s a whole different issue) then imagine what he could do with a rookie with just a bit of confidence (stanley cups tend to do that)
CNCITINFO- Why Maclyn Isnt Good...An intellectual Masterpiece, BGN gives it two thumbs way up!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY! - (doubleh B.S.H.)
Plus we could move Leights after this season and have a 1-2 of Niemi and Backlund, would that be so bad?
CNCITINFO- Why Maclyn Isnt Good...An intellectual Masterpiece, BGN gives it two thumbs way up!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY! - (doubleh B.S.H.)
Niemi’s rookie year happened when he was like 26, he is only a couple years younger than Leights..
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 30, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
has a lot less baggage than leights
by historywillbemade on Jul 30, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
He does still have a bit less mileage, though. Counting just top-level (ignoring the major juniors for Leights and the junior teams for Niemi), Leighton has 22,092 minutes between the AHL and NHL. Between Mestis, SM-liiga, AHL, and NHL, Niemi has 14,783 minutes.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
We could send leino to talk to him and convince him to sign for 2.6. Play the whole “home team” ( said with a Finnish accent). aspect
even though home is another country At least they can be together.
by manko on Jul 30, 2010 6:48 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Maybe ‘be’ together was the wrong choice of words.
by manko on Jul 30, 2010 6:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A bit off-topic...
Concerning Turco – his agent keeps saying he’ll be with a contender soon and that it’s down to three teams. The Flyers and the Blackhawks are most certainly two of those three. So, who’s the third? Chicago would only consider signing him if Niemi went elsewhere; I’m not convinced that we are signing him regardless. So, what is his other option that his agent alleges?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 30, 2010 7:38 AM EDT reply actions
I don't know if they are contenders
but the only other team that I have read may be looking are the Predators. Since they have Rinne as their starter they would only be looking for a back up goalie.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
that was my guess for the 3rd option.
by historywillbemade on Jul 30, 2010 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
but then again his agent also said that Turco will sign as a starter. no way Turco starts in Nashville
by historywillbemade on Jul 30, 2010 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I read that too. The only way Turco would be a guaranteed starter is if the Hawks part company with Niemi, and then he signs with them. I don’t think he would be the automatic #1 goaltender here.
I do remember mention of the Predators being in the running for Turco, but, again, you’re right – he definitely wouldn’t be the starter there.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 30, 2010 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly right so maybe Turco has Chicago higher on his list then Philly b/c they can guarantee him the starting position whereas he’d have to fight Leights for it here
by historywillbemade on Jul 30, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Well if he is so confident of his ability to be the starter, and wants starter money, then he should not be scared to compete with Leighton. After all, isnt it competition – one player pushing against another that makes them BOTH better?
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
Well, the key term there is “starter money” – if Turco wants more than 2 mil./yr., he will be pricing himself out of a potential job (at least with us, anyway).
The truly puzzling bit in this whole story (and what we were really debating above) is the confidence of his agent that he will definitely be a starter somewhere. He can’t possibly know that right now. That’s what we were trying to figure out.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 31, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
an update
Report says that Chicago has an agreement with Turco to sign him for one year, $1.5 million contingent on them walking away from Niemi.
Ben just posted this in another thread. Here’s the tweet:
http://twitter.com/stevekouleas/status/19936789789
I guess this is what Turco’s agent knew…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 31, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
and an additional thought...
If the deal doesn’t work out for Chicago, I’m betting he won’t be a starter anywhere in the fall.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 31, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
The ruling came out with an award of 2.75 for one year.
2.75 is cheep for Nemi, but still too expensive for Chi. This is a nightmare for a lot of people over in the windy city.
The bright side for the Flyers is
Nemmi will be a UFA next year and he add his name to a very large list of good UFA goalies looking for contracts next year.
The market price is now set. All those goalies will not be getting 5M or 6M deals. This ruling put the final nail in that pipe dream
Supply will be up, price will be down.
Could it be that by this time next year, we will have a bonified starting goalie?
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 31, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That would allow Chicago to continue to bury Huet’s fat contract in the minors, wouldn’t it? That would mean they could stop all the Patrick Sharp trade speculation …
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
I think we would try to get rid of someone like Kopecky before we traded Sharp. I guess it would all boil down to just how much more cap space we need to free up and what kind of trade could be made.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
A lot will depend on what can be freed up. If Chicago can move Huet somewhere where his cap hit isn’t a factor, the ‘Hawks would have about $5.3m to sign two goalies, a forward, and a defenseman, plus any 13th forward or 7th defenseman they might want. Since anybody moved will have to be replaced, Kopecky nets Chicago a maximum of $700k in cap space ($1.2m cap hit minus $500k minimum salary). Freeing up any significant cap space (>$1m) will mean moving Campbell, Keith, Hammer, Bolland, or Sharp. I’m assuming Kane, Toews, and Seabrook are untouchable, and I doubt Hossa’s on the will-move list either.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I would say that Keith is more untouchable than Seabrook, but I doubt that either of those two are going anywhere. No one will want Campbell’s cap hit but I could see Bolland being trade material.
How would you like a job where, every time you make a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?
speaking of Turco and Niemi. I think I just found the dumbest blogger on the planet: Josh Lile (stars blogger on Hockeybuzz) "In Chicago he (Turco) would get plenty of rest sharing the net with Antti Niemi. "…lol um no if Turco goes to Chicago it is to replace Niemi (i.e) niemi is gone and the load is on Turco whereas if Turco comes here it would likely be a competition b/w Turco and Leights to be the starter.
by historywillbemade on Jul 30, 2010 8:34 AM EDT reply actions
No Niemi.
Upon further review, I would like the Flyers to give Backlund a chance. If he kept the God-awful Phantoms in the playoff hunt during his first season in North America, imagine what he could do behind the Flyers’ stacked defense.
Plus, I’m no longer down with OPG (Other People’s Goalies). Yeah you know me.
Seriously though, I’m sick of it. Watching some of those old Flyer promos made me realize how much I missed the days when they drafted people like Lindbergh and Hextall. I won’t go through the carousel of goalies they’ve had since Hextall 2.0, but it’s gotten ridiculous. No more rentals!
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Jul 30, 2010 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I honestly think Backlund will end up the starter at some point during the year if the Flyers don’t sign someone else during the off season. It’s just a feeling I have, nothing concrete, but he seemed to adjust well to the NA game last year from what I read about his year on the Phantoms, so hopefully he can continue to grow as an NA goalie and challenge for that #1 spot on the Flyers.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Wasn’t he coming off an injury when he played for 40 minutes in Pittsburgh? If so, the Backlund we saw then was now 100% Pure Backe.
I think Anthony San said the same thing in his article – that he expected Backlund to challenge for a spot on the Flyers during camp. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we have a Backlund-Leighton tandem this coming year.
Given our cap space, and our unlikeliness to make any further moves, I hope to see Backlund in a Flyers sweater next year.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Backlund will definitely have an opportunity next season. The Flyers claimed Leighton off waivers last season because they weren’t comfortable with Backlund only having played for three months in North America and moving up to back-up. At this point, they’ve got enough of a sample size to be ready to pull the trigger as needed.
Backlund making the roster to me is more about finding playing time for the rest of our young goalie prospects. Riopel and BOB should both be playing in the AHL this year. Sending one of them to ECHL could severely damper their development. For those of you always bitching about the future and developing push Backlund to the NHL this year is almost a most in my opinion. But based on the way things went last year with all the goalie injuries you to wait until camp to be sure, our backup always seems be needed.
Would the Hawks ever be allowed to release Niemi and then re-sign him as a UFA? (Obviously that circumvents all the rules quite a bit. Just a hypothetical question.)
I cant recall the exact rules and technicalities but comes down to:
They could not re-sign him for a full year.
That loophole was closed up. Everyone would be abusing that one.
Im sure DG will be able to site the actual wording
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 31, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Jeff Carter ($5.000m) / Claude Giroux ($0.821m)
Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)
Darroll Powe ($0.725m)
DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Sean O’Donnell ($1.300m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) /Antti Niemi ($2.500m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,334,763; BONUSES: $937,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,002,737
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Broad Street Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Penguins, Bruins face their challenges in Eastern Conference showdown
- Olli Jokinen’s slump-buster is a Big Mac meal from McDonalds (Video)
- Friday’s Three Stars: Brassard wins it for Blue Jackets in overtime; Halak blanks Kings
- Puck Previews: Blues host Kings in first game after break; Blackhawks’ road struggles
- Best barometer of the St. Louis Blues’ success? Gifts from political lobbyists
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- WHL Roundup: A look at Friday's games
- Gabriel and Leipsic two goals each as the Winterhawks defeat the Silvertips 7-3
- Feser solidifies Americans win with two empty-net goals against the Thunderbirds
- Holberg scores winner in shootout as the Chiefs beat the Royals 6-5
- Brown makes 26 saves to lead the Rockets over the Cougars 2-1
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
