Wednesday Morning Fly By: Wingers Galore
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 7, 2010 8:27 AM EDT
in Morning Fly By
214 comments
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- The Flyers have re-opened contract talks with Arron Asham. [CSNPhilly]
- Great article looking at the Simon Gagne situation, with this gem thrown in at the bottom: "[Marty] Turco wants to play in Philly. So much so that he has his representatives calling Holmgren almost daily, according to a team source." [DelcoTimes]
- An interesting story where the Oilers owner files for a team in Hamilton. Nope, no conflict of interest. [Puck Daddy]
- The Flyers reportedly offered Ilya Kovalchuk $7 million per year. [EuroFlyers]
- The preseason schedule was announced: [BSH] [In the Room]
- St. Louis overpaid for Jaroslav Halak, but not by much: [Behind The Net]
- Lastly, Johan Backlund and Ville Leino take a minute to have some ice cream. [NHLFlyers]
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“[Marty] Turco wants to play in Philly. So much so that he has his representatives calling Holmgren almost daily, according to a team source.”
Homer says, “How about league minimum, Marts?”
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 7, 2010 8:29 AM EDT reply actions
Hopefully the only reason this information is releases to reporters, is to help with Nabbys negotiations .
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
come on Nabby. Come play for us for less than $3million/year for 2 years
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha that’s funny. League minimum would be great.
Or he is probably saying something like “you should have taken my offer before July 1st…. you’re going to be this season’s Biron.”
I am just wondering what the big deal is going to be because we have to make one somehow.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 7, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Deciding that a week ago would have saved us a lot of wasted money, thanks Turcs
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
actually we probably can get him for less than the lowball offer, now that he has come crying back to us
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
So who is interested in Gagne? Seeing as the Kings have officially passed.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
If it was up to me, I'd free Charles Manson... -MRH
There’s also a report that they (i.e., the Kings) may be back in the mix as well. If they don’t re-sign Frolov, they will almost definitely be back in the mix.
The story linked above also said that Tampa Bay, Montreal, and Dallas have expressed interest to Gagne’s agent. Gagne would veto the Canadiens, IMHO. The other two could be good fits – if he chose one of them, I hope he would choose Dallas.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 7, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, just finished reading it. I hope either Kings(if they really are back in the mix) or Dallas…that way we won’t have to play against him on a somewhat reg. basis.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
If it was up to me, I'd free Charles Manson... -MRH
Agreed. If he were on the Bolts or the (ugh) Habs, I’d feel awful seeing him play against us 4 times this year.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 7, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather die before I see gagne playing for Montreal
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Frankly, I think Gagne would rather die than play for Montreal.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 7, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree. When Briere signed here, he was quoted talking about the extra media attention a francophone player would get playing in Montreal since, at the time, they didn’t really have any. I know he’s alright with talking to the media here now, but I don’t think he’d be comfortable being one of a select few “go to guys” every single night, since I think their media can be harsher than ours. Not to mention there’s the whole growing up a Nordiques fan factor.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 7, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right. I would hate to see Gagne playing for Montreal, but he would probably hate to play for Montreal. That’s like asking any of us us (if we were NHL players) to be traded to the Penguins or Devils.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 7, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
At one point...
I thought Homer had a clear plan and back up plans. Now it just seems like he is all over the map. I’m still in disbelief they made any kind of offer to Kovie.
Me too. it makes no sense. Flyers don’t have the space and Kovy doesn’t fit the flyers identity
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree. the kovalchuk offer makes no sense at all. we dont have cap space as is, how in hell were we supposed to find another 7 mill. it seems like the flyers are gonna trade gags for a goalie and resigning powe/carbomb/asham. the question i have is if they use all the gagne money on those guys then where does the money come from for a giroux extension and leino extension next offseason as well as jvr is two years. i guess they would have to trade carter too. i like the mez aquisition but it seems like his 4 mill salary is going to be too much in the coming years. it just seems like bad management to me to be in a position this year where we have to trade gagne and then be in the same type of position for next year too
So, with their limited cap space, they’re ostensibly trying to sign Darroll Powe, Dan Carcillo, possibly Marty Turco, and now Arron Asham? What the hell is going on here?
Dear Homer:
None of the above-listed players can score on a regular basis. Should you move the salary of one Simon Gagne, you need to fill the void in his production. If you recall, the team dropped 11 points in the standings between 2008-09 and 2009-10, and they were in no way helped by losing the 52 goals of Joffrey Lupul and Mike Knuble.
Please consider this as you move forward with assembling your roster.
Wuv,
Mikey.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Well said, especially the “Wuv” haha.
I’m really confused by the goings on right now. I’m really interested to see what all shakes out.
me too. i’m puzzled by homer’s impulse moves, see shelley, jody. also – $4M is a lot to pay mezsaros. that money could have been split between a #5 d-man and a goalie but oh well. omgagne will be sorely missed as a result of these decisions. let’s see what shakes out.
The only thing I can think of with the Meszaros move,was that Homer was having a hard time convincing any good FA dmen to come to Philly given their defensive depth. I find it hard to believe he couldn’t convince anyone with a chance to win a cup and to be part of one of the best defensive lineups in the league, but that’s the only thing I can think of as to why he searched out a trade for a dman. Meszaros is a very good puck moving defensemen though, maybe playing on a better team will get him back to the promising days he had for the Sens.
I second the confused part. Can someone break it down to me why we are shopping gagne? Is it because the alternative is if we start the season with Gagne, it means Leighton is the starting goalie?
Is it because we need his 5MM to sign Kovy (who I definitely don’t want)? Is it because Homer so f’d the cap up with the Shelley move and the Meszaros trade that we now need cap room?
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 7, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Still have roster holes to fill, still have depth needs. I don’t know what’s in Homer’s head, so it’s hard to say why he needs the cap room (other than our roster is still not filled out).
The ASF article was good and although as I’ve said before, I’m fine with trading Gagne (I love him, obviously) but in business, it’s time to get what you can for your assets before one solid hit makes it a career.
I’m just confused on what Homer plans to do after he makes the trade. Obviously, he’ll need someone to fill the LW hole created by the trade. I also think they need to address the goalie situation, Turco at 1.5 – 2MM on a short one year deal sounds about right. Not sure how Powe/Carcillo/Asham fit into the whole picture either.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 7, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
And they really still need a legit RW to play with Giroux and JVR in ym mind. I don’t know if the organization agrees. I know there are all these Giroux played RW in juniors arguments, but to me, in the NHL, the way he can control the game, and his effectiveness in his own zone defensively, his game has grown to be most effective when played at center. So that puts Carter and Leino as your top 2 RW’s, and I still think they need a depth scoring winger to add to that 3rd line. And Gagne’s hole will create a need for a top line LW. And obviously they may or may not need to address the goalie situation depending on how Homer is feeling that day.
Well, as ASF put it in his summary of his article, to believe this team can do 2 wins better next season, with Leighton in net is pretty short sighted. The market for Turco and Nabokov has dried up, time to sign one of them for less than $3MM on a short term deal. The market for goalies has never been better than now, despite us overpaying for Leighton.
I agree that we need a RW (and soon a LW), which is why I don’t understand why we are renogiating with Asham or don’t just walk away from Carcillo. Powe, I can see the need for on the 4th line. Shelley becomes your alternate spare. What am I missing?
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 7, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really think you are missing anything.
But that is one thing I hate that ASF brought up in his article. I hate when the Flyers just assume they need to be 2 wins better. Other teams have improved, the Flyers didn’t play the Pens or Caps in the playoffs, and they almost missed the playoffs all together. I think the team has improved their defense, moved sideways in net, and their offense, well if Gagne goes, it just took a big step back. I hope Leino is as good as we are all expecting him to be (obviously not what he was in the playoffs, but certainly a productive 2nd liner), but we have to be open to the possibility of him not being able to follow up his success b/c he hasn’t had success at the NHL level during a full season yet.
the only thing you’re missing on is we simply wont have cap room for a 3rd line RW for Giroux.
Even with Gagne’s contract gone. Thats still only about 5 million. And here’s how that gets divied up:
2 mil to the winger replacing Gagne
2 mil to Nabby or Turco
1 mil to Powe and whatever little cap space remains.
We’ll be lucky to find a good 1st line winger to replace Gagne in either a trade for him or signing a UFA one.
The 3rd line RW is not in the cars for this season. The best option is Powe. He is fast and gritty. I think he’ll compliment Giroux and JVR nicely, especially for his low price. Powe is one of the best bang for buck players we have.
Shelley will play on the fourth line. For 1.1 million, i expect him to be a regular.
Carcillo should be the odd man out, i just dont see any salary cap room for him at all. And we dont need him.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know where goaltending is on Homer’s radar though. It seems to change day to day. He was really agressive, then he settled. There were a bunch of rumors of Ellis coming here, then nothing. I just don’t know what his plans are, so there is the possibility that the cap space from Gagne goes to the wings. Also, you don’t know what comes back the other way in the Gagne trade, so it’s tough to say how much money they’ll have and what holes they will have left.
Lots of questions, lots of possibilities, no definitive answers.
I would argue that leighton is a downgrade from last seasons start. I, as many probably were, was more confident in a healthy ray emery (with the question mark being his off ice activities) than leighton (with the question mark being can he repeat the season he had last year never having had such success before). And yes losing gagne would be a step back depending on the return. I am sure he won’t go for nothing and if we get picks/prospects it may be more of a step back than if we fill a hole at rw with players like simmonds or ryan which I feel would be sideways or perhaps a small step forward.
by bfrank27 on Jul 7, 2010 11:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
they certainly aren’t getting ryan, he’s more expensive than gagne.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 7, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Read: players like. But yes assuming ryan does not take a hometown kind of discount to come play in philly it couldn’t be for gagne.
Apologize if this is a double post mobile connection is fleeting in this building.
by bfrank27 on Jul 7, 2010 11:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i agree. Emery last year this time def seemed like more of an upside than Leighton. Which is why we should really try for Nabby/Turco especially at a discount rate.
simmonds or ryan would be a big step forward in my opinion. Those guys are young and in their prime. I love Gagne, and he came to play in the playoffs, but overall, i would much rather have Simmonds or Ryan.
Ryan though seems unlikely, since even with a discount he’ll prob want like 5 million. And that doesnt buy us any cap room.
I would love Simmonds. His cap hit is under 1 mil next year. He’s young, is already solid, and looks to get even better. He would be an upgrade on the wing over Gagne (not trying to hate on Gags, but it is what it is), and he would clear plenty of cap room to get Nabby or Turco, resign both Powe and Carcillo – or even better just sign Powe or neither of them and you still have room to possibly get another winger for Giroux.
Simmonds would be ridiculously ideal.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
The deal for ryan would probably be carter though not gagne. Even though they’re “not trading carter”
by bfrank27 on Jul 7, 2010 11:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Ducks are waiting for offer sheets to come in on Ryan, then they will decide to match or take the picks according to LeBrun.
Doesn’t Lebron have his own offers to worry about? Ba Zing
by bfrank27 on Jul 7, 2010 11:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Can we at least all agree that we’re sick of hearing about LeBron and where he might go?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I’m already pissed off that I brought up Lebrun’s name. If I knew someone would mention that other DBag, I wouldn’t have commented.
Wow, I thought I was the only one who disliked “King” James.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I am actually not a basketball fan. paired with the fact that I generally dont watch sports news networks (NHL network exception) other than for sporting events, I dont really hear too much about him, but its even in the regular news and all and I too am sick of it. It was just too good a set up to pass up.
Simmonds would be ideal. I worked out the math yesterday. Trade Gagne for Simmonds, sign Nabby at less than $3.5 million, give Carbomb and Powe their raises, waive boosh and cote, and then you actually have about $1million in cap space to play with
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Noooooooooo!!!!
The Villianator shaved!!!!!!
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
His debonair bristles will be back next postseason! :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 7, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Assuming we make the playoffs. Seeing as Homer is single handedly fucking everything up, I wouldn’t count my chickens before they hatch . . .
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
what the hell
where is 7 million coming from for Kovie? what was homer’s plan to play with five guys (Richards, Carter, Hartnell, Briere, Kovie) for the next five years? Did he just forget about Giroux. Good lord.
And now Asham? Huh? We need one guy out of the threesome of Carbomb/Powe/Asham, not all 3. Probably Powe the most. Dont talk to Asham. Talk to actual wingers that can score.
Homer as a GM is a crap shoot it seems. 50 percent of the time he nails it, 50 percent of the time he’s way off.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 9:56 AM EDT reply actions
I can only assume if he is talking to Asham, that he thinks there is a possibility Carbomb will win the Arbitration and then they will let him walk to free agency. I still don’t think they’d need Asham, but who knows. It’s hard to tell what will happen before the Gagne trade, or some Cap clearing trade happens.
no reason to talk to Asham even so. Carcillo should be let go. Powe’s your third line RW and Shelley’s your fourth line RW. There’s no cap room to do anything else. To give Asham money and platoon Powe/Shelley on the fourth line is just a waste of money. We gave Shelley 1.1 million, he better be out there in his own spot and not in a platoon.
We need every bit of cap room to get Nabby/Turco, get a RW to replace Gagne, and resign Powe for the third line wing. He’s our best option there right now.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe we will resign Asham if he lets Carcillo walk
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Either Homer’s gone further off the deep end than we thought, or he is/was just trying to raise the price the Devils would have to pay.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
well, theortically he could fit a $7MM cap hit under the payroll right?
Oh forget it, I’ve also thought Homer was a cap moron.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 7, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
This
He was trying to drive up his price, and everyone knows Philly goes after every big name FA scorer, so no one’s the wiser. He was never going to sign here.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Even so, the Flyers didn’t even need to be involved to drive up the price. This is either Homer being too cute thinking he is driving up the price when there is no need for him to be involved, or Homer being a complete idiot.
Or ownership telling him to go after him, which I could totally see.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Do you really see Ed as a hands-off kind of guy? I don’t. I don’t see him as an Al Davis crazy kind of dude, but I definitely see him grabbing Homer and saying, “I want xxx. Get him.”
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I dunno. You think Homer and Clarkie would be pushing Homer to sign a high-priced Russian? I understand it’s not 1976 anymore but you’ve seen the same interviews I’ve seen on a yearly basis with those two describing how much they hate the Russians.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
considering Kovie wanted $10 million a year, Flyers didn’t really need to make an offer to drive up the price. I sincerely doubt Homer made an offer
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW
Geoff, that is a brilliant caption on the photo.
Hey Marty Turco, you should have taken the $2MM when it was there buddy.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 7, 2010 10:02 AM EDT reply actions
yep, he will be lucky to get anything more than that now. Like I said before Nabby and Turco look dumb for turning down the flyers and now if flyers clear the space they can have them for cheap
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Off-topic
from Puck Daddy’s story about Modano going to Detroit or retiring:
That financial situation is the one that has some Red Wings fans weary about Modano coming to Detroit.
This is a pet peeve of mine. They are not “weary” (which, of course, means to be tired or weak) – however, they are “leery” or “wary” (both of which mean ‘to be uneasy or cautious about someone or something’). Mashing the two words together doesn’t get result you were intending.
As far as Modano going to Detroit is concerned, it would be a bit surreal.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 7, 2010 10:15 AM EDT reply actions
It’s not being used as a verb though. It’s an adjective describing Red Wing fans. And the fans aren’t impatient, they’re cautious, so weary is still not the word.
You’re correct about the verb, but he was clearly trying to use the adjective.
Q.E.D.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 7, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
1976 Stanley Cup Final
Anyone else catch Game 4 of the ’76 Stanley Cup Final on NHL Network last night? Even though they lost and got swept in that series, it was good to watch. And the Philly fans did exactly the same thing as they did this year, they booed the Commissioner, but cheered for the Cup.
In Latvia, they're rooting for Bartulis' team, the Filadelfijas Flaieri!
GD Cablevision
Took the NHL Network off my channels when my Center Ice package finally turned off during the SCF’s.
As if I need another reason to have the Rags.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
This Asham news makes my day.
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
Kings and Kovalchuk are “re-engaged” Lombardi says. Kovy to make first counter-offer today. This gets stranger and stranger…
Pfft.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Who knows if this is true. However, if it is, and they sign Kovie, no Gagne to the Kings trade.
I’d still prefer some variation of my Carter and Mesakos/Carle/Leighton for Brown and Simmonds/Parse/Bernier trade. Capspace AND appropriate players. And I’d especially prefer it over a salary dump with Simon without wingers coming back. And particularly over trading him to Tampa Bay (but wouldn’t that please Katchis).
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
yeh im with you. especially if it was meszo that went instead of carle. A Carter/Meszo/Leighton trade for Brown/Simmonds/Quick would be great. We would get the two right winger we need (and then some) and have a starting goalie. Plus cap space to go and get a cheaper 5th defenseman.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Your trade would clearly be the “home run”. But I’ve been rethinking the parameters of the trade. I agree that Mesakos would be better to trade than Carle. However, I think there is zero chance to get both Brown and Simmonds from that trade. I’d actually prefer to not get Simmonds than to trade Carle. However, several folks on this blog have suggested that they want D, so another variation would be:
Carter,Mesakos, rights to any minor league D-man of your choice and rights to Carcillo for Brown and Simmonds.
If they spring for including Bernier or Quick by us throwing in Leighton, great (but I don’t think LA is going to trade any goalie).
Some variation of this trade, with the major principles being Carter and Mesakos/ Carle and Brown, makes too much sense for Homer to think of it. :-((
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Cap after trade
For those that did not see an earlier version of this, here is the capgeek roster that would result from the trade above. Pretty sweet. (Note that I’ve also swapped out Syrvet for Cote, we’d have to sign some 7th D-man for the roster in any case).
If Carle was required rather than Meszakos, there would be 500K less cap room.
Until we needed the space, we could even keep Boosh as “head cheerleader”. :-))
FORWARDS
- Brown ($3.175m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Simon Gagne ($5.250m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) /Daniel Briere ($6.500m) /Ville Leino ($0.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)/Claude Giroux ($0.822m)/* Simmonds ($0.821m)
Ian Laperriere ($1.167m) / / Blair Betts ($0.700m)* Darroll Powe ($0.572m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m)/Matt Carle ($3.438m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)/Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Sean O’Donnell ($1.300m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
- Danny Syvret ($0.575m)
GOALTENDERS
- Turco ($1.800m) / Michael Leighton ($1.550m) / Brian Boucher ($0.925m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 23; CAP: $59.4m; PAYROLL: $57.153m; BONUSES: $0.938m; CAP ROOM: $3.185m
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
waive Syrvet, move Boosh’s contract, plus the cap room, buys you a 5th defenseman to play with O’donnell, and you can put Bartulis as our 7th.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t need to waive Syrvet. Just not sign him. Wouldn’t need to waive Boosh. You still have $3.2 M in cap room above. (You could waive him. but not necessary).
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
agreed id rather have Carle than get Simmonds. Im a big fan of Carle.
But I dont think Carcillo would do anything for them, it would just be a throw in.
Im not sure if Carter, Meszo and a minor leaguer buys you Brown and Simmonds. Maybe it does. I think the prospect of Carter and Kopitar as their franchise centers would be hard to turn down, even if it meant giving up Brown.
Even if we dont get Quick out of it. That still gives us cap room to still get a goalie and a 5th defenseman, it’s just we would be against the cap rather than a couple mil off of it. And we probably couldnt sign Powe. But it wouldnt matter if we had both Simmonds and Brown to play the 1st and 3rd line RW.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
See above, no problem with Powe.
And if you could not get Simmonds, Parse (or, for that matter, Afinegov (spelling) ) would fit.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
well then what are you suggesting if we dont get Simmonds, would we be getting in return for Carter, just Brown, cause then thats good enough on our side of it.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The Chicago Blackhawks goaltender Antti Niemi also returned to Finland recently and went on to praise the atmosphere at the games in Philadelphia.
“I think the crowd in Philadelphia was probably even louder than in our place”, Niemi recalls. “The fans there gathered around to grill outside the arena already in the morning. It was totally amazing.”
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
We’re awesome.
I love the Flyers so much I even went to Bobby Clarke Day Camp.
by billy_pilgrim on Jul 7, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
best fanbase in hockey.
everyone else who doesnt think so is just jealous and can suck it.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. :)
(Do you think he meant this to be leaked, or was he just caught being a tad too candid?)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 7, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he was just answering a question about the experience of the Stanley Cup, which would fall into your “too candid” category. He’s only 26, after all; he’s probably not thinking about how a comment like that could sound to the fanbase.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Yeah, because we haven’t learned to find Finnish translators…heck, some days it feels like half the league is from Finland, and the other half is Swedish. Unless you’re Latvian, there’s enough of your nationality in the NHL to get stuff translated to English.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I’m happy to offer Latvian translation services any time! There are a whopping 3 Latvians actively playing in the NHL. Bartulis, Skrastins and Ivanans. Knuble is a Latvian-American (i.e., Latvian descent, born in the US) but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t speak Latvian.
In Latvia, they're rooting for Bartulis' team, the Filadelfijas Flaieri!
we should send him an offer sheet, just to f with the blackhawks cap.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 7, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
goaltending
Hey everyone,
It just occured to me that Homer and Clarke most likely have the same philosophy on goalies. they play as well as the D in front of them. That’s why he is getting all these D players to make the team the best D in the league and he will stick with leighton as a starter.
not exactly breaking news. obviously homer thought goaltending was going to be expensive, so he loaded up on d and signed leighton early just in case. the leighton signing really bit him and the flyers in the ass.
i wouldnt say he has necessarily the same philosophy as clarke on goalies. at least not yet. homer’s made moves to try to bring in top goalies more than Clarke, they just havent worked out. Biron was highly touted, didnt work, Emery seemed like he could be a solid no. 1 given a chance, but that didnt work out either. And Homer did find a great replacement on the fly in leighton. Id say homer is better with goalies at this point. it just hasnt worked out all the way.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point. Homer has done a pretty good job in getting goalies thusfar. Biron didn’t work out so well (well I think he would have but he had to want a big contract and left and signed for nothing). Emery I was very excited about but he got injured and there was that. And getting Leighton for a 300K cap hit was great. We’ll see what happpens.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
So says @Jay_Gold_: “CONFIRMED: SKA St. Petersburg (#KHL) – (G) Evgeni Nabokov – 4 years – $6 M. per season.”
Yeesh.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
yikes. welp. i guess if you dont want to a chance to play in the nhl for the stanley cup, mine as well get paid.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
as the leights get brighter…. only turco now or if we swing a deal with the kings for Quick, but that would have to involve more than Gagne.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
not really, Turco’s only choice is still nowhere or the flyers right now it seems
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
well there’s one team (Flyers) that may still be in the market for a goalie and still two more big name goalies out there (Turco and Theo)
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
PLEASE NOT THEO!!!!!
Turco would be bad enough.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
turco would be fine. dont know about theo though.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d have no problem with Turco for cheap. He can split time with Leights. He had a crappy team last few years and still can occasionally steal games. he also is great at handling the puck
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHA. That’s hilarious actually. Have fun in the KHL dude. You can maybe win one of those other “championships” that nobody really gives a crap about.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 7, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
isn’t this the same team that is trying to sign Kovie? go ahead, go join nabby in a league that no one cares to play against inferior competition
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I would think there are “outs” in the contract that allow him to return to the NHL. Might be a smart move actually for Nabby, sit out a year and wait for the goaltending market to get better.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 7, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was there and will be writing something up today.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 7, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Reports in Russia indicate that Nik Zherdev signed a contract with the Flyers.
I’ll refrain from commentary until a deal is confirmed and the details are made available, but this can’t help the Flyers’ salary cap situation (nor can it help Homer’s bit of leverage with regard to any Gagne discussions).
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
JVR-Richards-Carter
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Powe-Giroux-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Laperriere
If you move Gagne, that could certainly be cap-feasible, assuming Homer didn’t drastically overpay for Zherdev (no guarantee there, obviously).
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I am waiting to hear $ figures and contract length before I react to anything. This either could be great or horrible depending.
Agreed
If this is a blue light special contract then it may not be bad.
Zherdev can easily be this year’s reclamation project.
I know the name but not the scouting report. what does he bring to the table
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Goal scoring. Not a two-dimensional player — at least, that’s not how I remember him. Work ethic was in question, which is the Rangers let him walk after RFA arbitrator proposed a salary of $3.9 million.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Very talented, just struggled at times to find a “place” in the NHL. The Cannon (pre-SBN) has a nice piece on him.
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
Basically what Ben said. Questions about work ethic, doesn’t work on both ends, but man can the guy snipe, and he has some moves.
Basically if this is like Afinogenov’s deal for Atlanta last year, we could be dancing in the streets if he fits in well witht he team.
is he a right winger? if so they we have our guy to go with g and jvr
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. Right winger.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
possibly a good move but need to see $ amount and to see how it effects gagne situation. my guess is that if homer wanted him, he add to act quickly and thus couldn’t wait him out like he is doing to Turco
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
My friend summarized him up like this. Potential to be extremely talented, but also potential to be extremely lazy. But then again I have been waiting for a good Russian powerhouse on the Flyers for a while
Depending on how this year goes, the rangers may become well known for more than just overpaid free agent busts. They may become known for letting players go who sign in philly and are important parts of a good team.
by bfrank27 on Jul 7, 2010 1:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
seriously wtf? homer couldn’t wait until he cleared gagne and signed Turco first? now he has worse cap and less leverage
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Will it anger Blueshirt Banter? Will it not be Jody Shelley?
If the answer to both of these questions is yes, I don’t mind it.
Flyers sign Nikolai Zherdev.
Now we just await the dollars and length.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Can’t guarantee, can’t guarantee, can guarantee.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
My favorite part? The earlier banter about how we won’t sign russians.
by BroadStreetBully on Jul 7, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, this is totally from nowhere. I know he bolted for the KHL last season. I won’t have a true opinion until we find out the terms of the contract.
This definitely means Gagne or Carter is going to move. But if we move one of them and sign Turco, and keep Powe and hopefully get a good cheap winger from trading them, we may be set for the season. Maybe some cap clearing waives/trades of getting rid of Boosh and Cote, but if all that happened and Zherdev does well, I may be happy with the team. I do like Ben Feldman’s lines though.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
See my Carter and Mesakos/Carle trade for Brown above. Note that even if this were done (which it won’t be) it would take up all the rest of the space in that scenario.
We actually would need to move 2 or more guys.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
well they might as well sign Turco now instead of waiting to trade Gagne, b/c we probably lost all negotiating power now that he are likely over the cap
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Question
If Homes wants Turco that bad why doesn’t he just sign him if he gets a good price? It seems to me like Homer is waiting to trade Gagne first. . . . So we’ll be above the cap for a while, so what. Or maybe it will lower our trading ability?
If Homer goes over the cap, teams know he needs to clear salary, so he loses leverage in any Gagne trade.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I get that, which is why he is probably waiting on signing Turco, but now that he signed Zherdev, just sign Turco already. the hand is already blown
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, there’s something to be said for the amount of salary he needs to clear, but yeah.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
so did I but won’t signing Zherdev likely put us over now
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Nikolai Zherdev
23 goals in 2008-09
Looks like he was in the KHL last year.
Chesnakov of Puck Daddy has a piece that just was uploaded on him.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I don’t like the salary numbers being thrown around for Zherdev. At all.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
seriously that article said $4 million, no way should homer have signed him. hopefully it’s something cheaper than that, but it’s $4million wave goodbye to gagne and any chance of goalie upgrade
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy is a 20 goal guy, but there is a reason he was playing in the KHL last year. It’s tough to gauge his value, and that article totally threw me off.
seriously. we were afraid to pay a goalie $4 million and now homer might have taken a $4 million flyer on a potentially great but also lazy one dimensional player. wtf?
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
We may have said goodbye to a goalie upgrade last week when turco said no and they resigned leighton. It certainly looks like the personnel they are gathering means they plan to bite the bullet and make do with the current players in net.
by bfrank27 on Jul 7, 2010 1:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
but Turco is begging homer to sign here. I’d easily take Turco/Leights over Leights/ boosh and we could have Turco for cheap
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Technically, that Zherdev story is an older one (48 hours ago!)
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Uh, format fail. That was a reply to my own post above. Sorry.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
i’d sleep better knowing that we were going to trade gagne (2 way player, works hard, can score, pk, pp) for an upgrade in net and not for a lazy one dimensional russian player with work ethic problems
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
i’d say anything over 2.5, bc that is half gagne’s cap hit and I still want to sign turco which could be done for the leftovers
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
My feelings on the matter are that Zherdev missed the NHL. Stammer about it or not, the Flyers were 2 games from winning the cup, and didn’t pull a Blackhawks in the off-season.
I know human tendencies. Coming back to the NHL, you know you’re going to make less money, but you’ve got the chance to play for Lord Stanley’s Cup. That’s his motiviation. Not money, but prestige. He’ll sign for cheap, bringing a bit of irony to Nabby’s leaving.
by BroadStreetBully on Jul 7, 2010 2:03 PM EDT reply actions
We have room for a case of Tastykakes
Just as an exercise: with Zherdev at the original rumored price, without Gagne, but nothing else.
This seems even more stupid.
FYI: the Carcillo amount below assumes we would be “forced” to sign him (see discussion yesterday). Of course in the real world Cote is waived.
We would be ultra-messed up in this scenario not signing the versatile (if somewhat limited talented) and cheap Powe.
FORWARDS
/ Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.000m)/ * Zherdev ($4.000m)
)Daniel Briere ($6.500m)/Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) /Ville Leino ($0.800m)
Claude Giroux ($0.822m) / / James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / * Daniel Carcillo ($1.200m
- Darroll Powe ($0.572m) Ian Laperriere ($1.167m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m)
/Jody Shelley ($1.100m)/ Riley Cote ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.438m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Sean O’Donnell ($1.300m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) / Brian Boucher ($0.925m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 23; CAP: $59.4m; PAYROLL: $60.282m; BONUSES: $0.938m; CAP ROOM: $0.056m
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
In this scenario, waiving Carcillo, Cote and Boosh gives you enough room to sign Turco, BUT you then still have Carter on the wing (an experiment, at the best) and Powe with Giroux and JVR. You’ve essentially swapped Zherdev for Gagne, with all of the problems still present we’ve earlier identified.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Carter and/or Richards and/or Giroux on the wing. Your choice.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I personally like the idea of keeping Giroux as the third line center this year. Keeping his point total down will cost us less to resign him next year
by mantis toboggan on Jul 7, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Giroux is more suited to be a center anyways. He can do it all and has great vision, his attributes are much more indicative of a center than anything else. He has Richards’ all around ablities plus better goal scoring ability and passing abliity. Giroux if he hits his potential will be our best center in 3 years.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 7, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Now reposted to Zherdev thread
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
From the DelcoTimes article
A Flyers source said the team would never have thought about moving Gagne if he were making in the neighborhood of $3 million
Think Gags would re-sign for $3 million next season?
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
A) you quoted the Delco Times … you lose points right there
B) the idea came from the Delco Times … thus has no credibility what so freaking ever.
This equates to “Dude I so would have bought that corvette if it only cost me $300 out of the factory”
I honestly have no idea about the qualities of any of the papers.
The question still stands though, would Gags re-sign for $3 million.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Lets put it way … my high school news paper used to use the DelcoTimes as what not to do.
Ad for Gagne … I don’t know why he would take that much less unless it was a hometown discount for maybe a year. He is only 30 he still have good years left in him.
SanFilippo is good. I won’t comment on the rest of the paper, but SanFilippo is really good.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 7, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never read the Delco Times because I don’t live in Delco, but I do read SanFilippo on a daily basis, we’ve interviewed him several times, he’s commented on this site before and I talk to him on a less-formal basis often. He’s a very solid reporter, regardless of what the rest of the paper is like.
Visit the BSH Store :: Get us on Twitter :: facebook, too!
Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Jul 7, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That quote is really dumb. The first time I read it, I immediately thought the “source” was an idiot.
Gagne is entering the last year of a five-year deal. When he signed his $5.25 million deal, he was 26 years old, and coming off of a 79 point (47 goal) campaign. At that point, he already had five 20-goal seasons.
Long-story short: the source is saying Gagne isn’t worth his contract, but will Danny Briere be worth his entering next season? Will Scott Hartnell, assuming he doesn’t have a NTC? You can’t sit there and say a guy entering the last year of his well-deserved deal is overpriced.
That said, I bet he’d take a contract for a $3 mil cap hit (not salary, front load it) next season.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 7, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah the quote is dumb, I just thought it would be interesting to think if Gagne would sign for $3 million.
Thanks for the SanFilippo validation
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
haha, yeah. I think Gagne would sign for around $3 million, but I may be mostly hoping.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 8, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
This team’s front office simply refuses to acknowledge the fact that the Flyers were not as good as they think last season. They had the easiest road to the Finals of any team possible at the start of the playoffs. Not a single team they faced until Chicago had the scoring to expose their weakness between the pipes.
Now we are forced to watch as they fail to realize this fact, and take more “flyers” on players that either don’t play or haven’t played in the NHL. They seem to always want to gamble on players that the rest of the league gave up on.
What they fail to realize is that this team blew its’ load in the playoffs last season. Quite simply, if they had pulled the trigger on Carter for Vokoun at the deadline, we’d have a cup right now.
We will sit through a rollercoater season upcoming. Highs will be high and lows will be ultra low. I for one, am not optimistic.
Another great team…. without an adequate goalie. It makes me laugh that the front office is “split” about Leighton. I don’t think we’ll have that problem 25 or so games into the season.
and then homer will go crying back to Marty Turco if he doesn’t have a job by then
by historywillbemade on Jul 7, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
But then we wouldn’t get to catch lightning in a bottle with Backlund, watch him ultimately falter late in the playoffs after a strong run and massive injuries, get anointed goalie of the future, then flame out the next season. When he gets replaced and we catch lightning in a bottle with Riopel who will ultimately falter late in the playoffs after a strong run and massive injuries, get anointed goalie of the future, then flame out the next season.
The circle….. THE! CIRCLE! OF! LIFE!
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 7, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
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