Friday Morning Fly By: Going Back to Camp
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- I'll be heading to Prospect Camp again today, quite possibly hijacking our Twitter feed. Be on the lookout.
- Photos from yesterday's Trial on the Isle: [Philadelphia Flyers]
- The trio of Jeff Carter, Mike Testwuide, and Mike Banwell won: [NHLFlyers]
- Andrej Meszaros the goal scorer: [EuroFlyers]
- Why haven't the Phantoms made moves equal to their division rivals? [PostStar]
- Ten free agent signings that don't suck: [Puck Daddy]
- What to do about the NHL All-Star Game weekend: [From The Rink]
- Lastly, Scott Hartnell will take on Serena Williams in a tennis match. Seriously: [Flyer Files]
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All Star Game
Interesting idea for the skills competition, I really like it. However…
I went to the ASG when it was in Atlanta (not too hard to get a ticket to anything hockey related there), and I had an absolute blast. I went with friends (who all supported rival teams), and it turned in to a good ol’ fashion weekend of hockey, shit talking, and drinking. You can go to practices, get to see players up close that you rarely get to see (especially with that level of accessibility), and the actual game is really fun to watch live (lots of little wagers, drunken insults, and good old fashion ribbing).
I know that article was more so talking about watching the ASG on TV, but if you ever get a chance to go to an All Star weekend, go, you’ll have a ton of fun.
no news is good news?
i need some closure on the turco/carter/gagne/zherdev situation.
you mean the turco/powe/carcillo/gagne/zherdev/homer situation
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
finally a small snippet of news “dchesnokov Zherdev’s agent:”we hope every small issue that’s left will be resolved w/in hours. Nik’s main priority is the NHL, not $" so Zherdev took a cap friendly deal?
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 10:30 AM EDT reply actions
more from dschesnokov
Zherdev’s agent told SovSport the #Flyers and the player are expected to finalize everything today.
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
It has to be a cap friendly deal. First off he knows he is coming to a major contender with us. Second he is getting a chance back in the NHL. I would be really surprised if it is expensive.
"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."
Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson
yes but there was some discussion of $4 million/ year, which is not cap friendly at all. the rumored under $3 million/ year is much better…we may have cap space for a goalie yet!!!!
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I saw all the rumors, and I still didn’t believe he would get that. Maybe if he went to Buffalo or the other team that was looking at him, but with us I knew there was no way we would invest that much into him; although Homer has done crazier things (see: Shelly, Jody).
"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."
Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson
Those rumors were never about what he was going to get, it was simply the reported amount he was looking for. I don’t think anyone was going to sign him for $4mil after he walked away from the NHL when no one wanted to pay him the $3.9 he was awarded during arbitration.
" I think it will be between $2m and $3m." same source dchesnokov
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Off-topic, but has everyone seen the Cavaliers owner’s letter to their fans about LeBron?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Yes and it’s awesome, especially some of his other comments about how LeBron has quit on the team in the playoffs and it’s time for him to be held accountable now. I know Gilbert is getting a ton of crap for it, but if this was in Philly and not Cleveland, I’d want our owners to go off on LeBron in the same manner, maybe a different font.
Don’t get me wrong, Gilbert looks like a bitter ex here, but I love seeing an owner taking it personally and letting his emotions get the best of him. It brings the human element in sports front and center, and I think that gets covered up too much, too often with all the coached up athlete interviews and cliches.
Even if he’s wrong?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 9, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? Because although I think part of the letter was true…it was 100% inappropriate. Lebron was a free agent, meaning he could go where he wanted. He OWED Cleveland nothing. In fact, Lebron took one less guaranteed year and 30 less guaranteed dollars to go where he felt he had a better chance to win. He left a team where he was the man, to go to a team with an already established superstar in D-Wade. If anything, Lebron what most people would love to see an athlete do. He made a move that wasn’t based on money or ego. It was based on winning. If Dan Gilbert wants to rip Lebron for that, then it shows you what kind of person Dan Gilbert is.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Not based on ego? He had an entire hour-long special dedicated to his “decision.” Agreed he owed the Cavs and their ownership nothing, but he at least owed some amount of decorum to the fans that had supported him for so long by not kicking them in the collective nuts on national TV. Just tweet and be done with it.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I don’t disagree that his hour long special wasn’t entirely over the top, and that Lebron James isn’t 100% a huge media whore, but Dan Gilbert’s letter to the fans didn’t address any of that. In the same vein however, Lebron raised millions of dollars towards a good cause. Lebron could have just made a decision and put it out there like everyone else does, but Lebron and his people knew that the entire sports world was going to be covering him and his decision anyway, why not make money for a charity while doing it? Dan Gilbert called out Lebron for a lot of things, none of which are true. Gilbert made one true statement:
This was announced with a several-day, narcissistic, self-promotional build-up culminating with a national TV special of his “decision” unlike anything ever “witnessed” in the history of sports and probably the history of entertainment.
He then went on to call Lebron a coward, and a betrayer…the same guy that resigned with the Cavs a few years ago when he didn’t have to. The same guy who lobbied to get Chris Bosh to play in Cleveland, but Bosh wanted a bigger market. Lebron did his part for 8 years and now he decided to walk away. Certainly isn’t the first guy to do it.
I am not a Lebron fan, I think as great as he is, if he ever does win, he will only be viewed as a guy who couldn’t build a winner but had to go somewhere else to win. So be it. If that is what he wants his legacy to be then that is on him. He hurt himself by having the one hour charade as opposed to just coming out and saying it and being done with it. But to try and call a guy out and see he betrayed you, and is a coward for taking less money and less years to go to a winner is flat out wrong. And Gilbert needs to be called on it.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
you sir are exactly correct. I never looked at it this way. Kudo’s for this POV.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you very much. I try and keep it as real as possible. Like I said, I am not really a Lebron fan, in fact, if I was put on the spot I would say I dislike him more than I like him, mostly because he is an egomaniac. But in this instance, the only egotistical thing he did was have a 1hr special, which, again went towards a good cause. Him leaving Cleveland to go to Miami was 100% about winning and there is no way to prove otherwise.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I’m actually a closet Heat fan and I am not sure what to think of James. I hated him yesterday, but now that he’s in Miami….it’s probably the same feeling we might have if Crosby somehow signed on to the Flyers during FA.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I am actually a Suns and Heat fan, (Heat since Tim Hardaway) and to be honest, I wanted no part of Lebron in Miami. I wanted him to go back to Cleveland or to New York. I still wish he didn’t come to Miami.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I love D-Wade, so anything that wins him another ring is ok with me.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
why? You wouldn’t want your team to land arguably the best player in the sport on your team?
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 9, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t ever say Gilbert was in the right. I just loved seeing this. I don’t think LeBron owes anyone anything, but if I was a Cavs fan I would have felt betrayed because when u r close to a team, you let your emotions get the best of you. So I love this in every way. I don’t care if its childish or inappropriate for an owner to say, because if I was a Cavs fan this would have served as my middle finger to Lebron and made me feel slightly better about everything.
I know it’s a silly and childish thing, but I think it would therapeutic for the fans. That’s why I liked. I agree with you if you take away all emotions involved, I just tried to view it I was a Cabs fan.
Lebron as a human being sucks, but ---
I think this article sums it up pretty well:
Now, Gilbert is the tough guy with James leaving the Cavs behind? Listen, Ferry and Brown always warned Gilbert that giving James everything he wanted – giving it when and where and how – wouldn’t be the way they would keep him. LeBron didn’t respect them because they never demanded it.
Gilbert always believed he should do everything James wanted – hire his buddies into jobs, throw them on summer-league rosters, allow him to do those stupid pregame choreographed dances – that James would love him, that he would never leave. Only, James is a taker, and he took and took until he had bled Gilbert and that franchise to the bone.
So now, Gilbert unleashes the most revisionist and self-serving screed that a scorned owner’s ever done. Gilbert is a bully and a baby. As much as James, Gilbert revealed himself, too. He asked for this humiliation and deserves it. Only those fans in Cleveland don’t deserve this. They were loyal, true, and ultimately they must know Gilbert lashed out to make James the villain for a most self-serving reason: to avoid the blame himself. Damn right James quit on the Cavaliers in that playoff series, but that was because Gilbert was always there to make it easy for him. All those times Ferry and Brown warned the owner they had to make stands with James, that they had to force him to have some level of respect within that organization or there would be an ultimate price to pay.
Anyways, who cares about pro Basketball, the pro sport with the least parity in all of pro sports? Yeah lets see Boston or LA win another championship for the 100th time. And I live in LA.
Man you are being too rational, logical, and level headed. Clearly Gilbert is an idiot, you can tell that just from the font he chose to use on the website. He is obviously the bad guy here, well at least more so than James. But it was such an amazing blow up. And I would think, when you are at your most vulnerable, emotional state if your a Cavs fan, his letter was an awesome thing to read. Obviously as time moves on and you calm down you realize again that Gilbert is a jackass. But in the moment, that letter and his comments might be therapeutic if you’re a Cavs fan.
Agreed entirely.
Specifically the part about the font.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 9, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, OTOH it’s awesome to read such honesty, but on the other Gilbert just looks like he’s deflecting the blame here. Dude let James practically run that team—let him run coaches out of town, hire his buddies—he was completely catered to and coddled. Gilbert enabled him to become this megalomaniac persona and can’t be shocked now that LeBron shows him absolutely no respect. As an analogy: you like hooking up with a woman who completely debases herself for you to keep you, but you will never marry her. She’s a doormat. You can never respect her.
The owner has to take his share of the blame.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
As someone who drives from Chicago to Philly at least four times a year, I can attest to that. Not only does it take up space, but it has the worst cops.
Georgia would disagree with that statement.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Off the top of my head the 3 best things in Ohio are
1 umberger
2 ???
3???
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
I’d put Nash at #3, but nothing at #2 – just because…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
OK – he can be #2 – good call.
Rock and Roll HOF at #4?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been there a few times. Nice place. But why is it in Cleveland? Wouldn’t Philadelphia be a better place?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I’ve been there a few times. Nice place. But why is it in Cleveland? Wouldn’t Philadelphia be a better place?
I remember all that controversy – we were finalists for it.
Ultimately, the term “rock and roll” was invented by a Cleveland DJ, and the Ohio legislature preemptively set aside money for its being built before they won the decision. I think both helped a lot to get it.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What exactly is a semi-large city? Like compare it to Harrisburg. Considering I drove through Harrisburg proper in about 5 minutes … Growing up outside Philly had skewed my perception of cities …
Cincinnati I would actually call large (it’s the biggest city in Ohio) – all the others are indeed “semi-large”.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.defendingbigd.com/2010/7/9/1560285/what-does-marty-turcos-time-in#storyjump
I know that the chances of getting Turco are small but this is an encouraging article if he does wind up with the Flyers
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 11:04 AM EDT reply actions
you are all about turco, eh? given the options available, he makes the most sense if he drops his price but he’s not going to be our savior in net. beezer 2.0
anything is better than leighton. turco makes the most sense and could sign for cheap. I was all for Nabby before. I just want Homer to do something about the goalie situation. i’m not satisfied at all with leighton/ boosh
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
My god ...
Comic sans? Really. It’s like he’s lecturing little kids.
I love the Flyers so much I even went to Bobby Clarke Day Camp.
by billy_pilgrim on Jul 9, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Oops!
This was supposed to be a reply to Ben’s post about the LeBron letter. Need more coffee …
I love the Flyers so much I even went to Bobby Clarke Day Camp.
by billy_pilgrim on Jul 9, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Wrong "Dan!"
I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER ‘KING’ WINS ONE.
That wasn’t written by Dan Gilbert. It was written by Daniel Alfredsson.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
yeah, that was my only issue with it. No way do the Cavaliers win a championship before Lebron. Maybe neither wins championships is probably closer to what may happen.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
whole league is a joke, 8 different champions in the last 24 years
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 9, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
…buh buh the dynasties. some competitive balance they got there. boring.
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
18 different MLB champions, 13 different NHL champions, 15 different NFL Champions in the last 24 years
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 9, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
wow if there was ever a league that needed a lockout it’s the nba
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The NBA needs to contract and have a hard salary cap
the talent needs to be spread out, not consolidated on a few teams
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 9, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
They need to start trading talent for talent, too. All this expiring contract BS just hamstrings teams for years.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
seriously in what other sport do you find teams that want to take other teams bad contracts?
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Bettman learned How to be such a great commissioner in the NBA
I prey to gretsky Buttman dose not decide the NHL needs to fabricate a dream team dynasty to boost the ratings. Or that we need it to get back on ESPN
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 9, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
So his plan is...
Cleveland will now be paying for players to join the lakers, tanking and then giving all their first round picks to LA.
Not to change the current topic of conversation to hockey…. buutttt has anyone heard any news about Zherdev?
see above. should be finalized today. somewhere in neighborhood of 2-3 million for one year deal
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Teemu
Zherdev’s agent refused to reveal the amount of money, but hinted it’s lower than the original asking price.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
original price too high or is he taking a discount to play with runner-up? guy apparently really wanted to come back to nhl and wasn’t about the money
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Deals are almost always lower than the original asking price. That’s part of negotiating. The player asks for more than he expects to get, the Club offers less than they’re willing to pay, and they negotiate to a mutually acceptable level. The problem comes when the player’s minimum acceptable salary is higher than the Club’s maximum allowable expense (i.e. the player wants $5m per year, but the team absolutely won’t go above $4.5m). Then the player goes to another Club or the KHL.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I’m actually kind of hoping Kovalchuk signs with the Devils just so that we get to watch them blow up their team and dwell in cap hell.
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Question about 35+ deals
If they put Pronger on LTIR, does his money come off the cap?
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions
If the Flyers put Pronger on LTIR, they are allowed to go over the salary cap by his cap hit (in this case, ~$4.9 million). But, as we learned with Rathje, being over the cap because of an LTIR’d player gives the team some additional restrictions. If you want to acquire a player, say, at the trade deadline, you have to have room for his entire cap hit, not just whatever the pro-rated cap hit would be.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
thanks for reminding me that we are freed of Rathje’s terrible contract
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The organization celebrated by splurging on Shelly
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 9, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s the front office’s modus operandi to give out at least one bad contract a year
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
so in other words, we aren’t totally screwed by Pronger’s 35+ deal in terms of LTIR at the end of his career. I see, I thought 35+ was on cap until the contract was up.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
When the CBA dose not get renewed and dose expire the players and owner will do one of 2 things.
1 have another lockout and destroy the game
or
2 re negotiate terms and make a New CBA
If and when they do create new terms there will be a buy out* period of old contracts like Progners.
*I use the words buy out only because I lack the full legal and technical terms under the agreement
This is the elephant in the room that everyone is pretending dose not exist until we get to that point..
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 9, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if you can fake a career ending injury, yeah, it’s not as bad. It’s still not a great situation, though. Rathje’s contract really screwed the Flyers when it came to potential trade deadline acquisitions.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
true, and like Prometheus says, I full expect there to be another CBA renogiating period, where bad contracts are bought out…
that said, the Pronger deal isn’t going to be terrible.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
McKenzie reporting
Sharks send offer sheet to the Blackhawks – Hammer (I’m not going to try to write his name)
HAHAHA. Blackhawks are so screwed.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions
Good for the Sharks! :)
Now they might have to consider trading Seabrook or a couple of their forwards to make up the space they could have saved by re-signing Hjalmarsson.
How much did the Sharks offer?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
$15MM for 4 years or 3.5 per, Hawks have 3.6MM of cap space currently. I think they are going to have to take the 1st and 3rd picks.
I didn’t think the Sharks had that much cap room, but apparently they do.
I hope this means the offers sheets start flying. This could get interesting again.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow…what a ballsy offer sheet! I think they are officially arch-rivals forever now. :)
I find this as amusing as you – HAHAHAHA!
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be fun to see. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. Bold move by Wilson. It’s a fairly reasonable price for Hjalmarsson, I guess.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
You know, Niemi is about in the same boat as Hjalmarsson, i.e., easy pickings for an offer sheet.
I wonder if anyone will do the same for Niemi?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Niemi’s going to arbitration. I know that doesn’t prevent further negotiations between the team and player prior to the arbitration hearing, but I don’t know if that prevents offer sheets from being made.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I forgot about that – it will be interesting to watch how all that unfolds.
It looks like Niemi wants to stay in Chicago and to be paid well for it.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
oh if only we had the picks and cap space. would be funny.
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
haha. payback for the sharks. bold move. someone should put an offer sheet on niemi to really toy with them
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
we should start calling the blackhawks by their new name marlinsnorth
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the sharks have enuf room $7 mil + in space and unless they are trading Boyle, Thorton, Heatley or Marleau they still need to sign 5-6 more players
They need four forwards, and they have $4.86m in space after signing Hammer if they keep Leach and Demers off the roster (giving them a D corps of Boyle, Vlasic, Murray, Hammer, Wallin, and Huskins). They still need to come to an agreement with Setoguchi, though. He’s not going to come cheap.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
sharks are a trade happy team. they will find space….apparently espn rumor says Turco might go to SJ, phat chance in hell. They seem sold on Niitty
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2010/7/9/1561214/sharks-sign-hjalmarsson-to-offer
sounds like they likely won’t match
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:21 PM EDT reply actions
Is that enough incentive for Homer to lock up Giroux long term before that happens to us next year??
i’m hoping for a long term deal mid season
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that will happen as well.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
at this point screw carter, let some team make an offer sheet and give us all those picks
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He should lock up Giroux mid season. I don’t know how the cap will look but he should give Giroux a very long term deal so it’s cap friendly. Plus we all know how great Giroux is going to become and how great he is now. We keep him long term I will be happy.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
This is why I am totally OK with saying good by to Gagne.
A bit sad, …..but totally ok with it
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
Also that may be a good idea if Homer valued picks. For Carter if anybody signed an offer sheet we’d get a ton of picks. I forsee Carter being in one of the top two tiers, most likely the second highest where we would get two 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder, and a 3rd rounder. Now what team would give that up for a player I don’t know, but that’s why I think trading Carter either now or before the deadline will get the most for us if we dont’ keep him.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Why would you ever want to move Richards?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Very nice.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 9, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
uh, creepy…
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Why wouldn’t you want to move the Honorless Captain?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Philly in general has a tendency to give out bad contracts. Not just the Flyers, but all the Philly teams (Eagles perhaps excepted). Mike Richards and Chase Utley’s contracts? I didn’t even bat an eye. Totally worth it. Biggest fricken no duh signings in recent history.
Wonder if in 3 years Richards contract looks like as big of a steal as Utley’s?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Assuming the salary cap continues to trend upwards, a lot of long-term NHL deals will start to look better, simply because cap hits are static and $5.75 million will become a lower and lower portion of the cap.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
The Flyers will be in a tricky situation next year, not an awful situation like Chicago — who should we keep instead of who should we lose, if that makes any sense. I’m not concerned.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
That’s about my view of next off-season as well – tricky but not ugly.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
when gagne gets traded and we still don’t have a goalie?
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
By playoff time next April,
Leighton will have proven me (and others) wrong and shows that he is a realtime goalie
Or
We will have addressed the issue by then.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
http://www.secondcityhockey.com/2010/7/9/1561270/if-you-cant-beat-us-steal-us#comments
SCH wants them to match. but think it would likely mean saying goodbye to niemi
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:27 PM EDT reply actions
And this is what Turco and Theo were hoping would happen since now there are 2 teams that in theory would need a goalie. Although where Niemi goes is anyones guess.
two teams? both of which were in the scf? wow. can the blackhawks really let niemi go, stash huet in the minors, and sign Turco when they still need to sign skaters?
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be a crazy ploy for the sharks to get Nemi if Chicago dose thatch their offer
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
Someone on puck daddy just mentioned that he can’t be signed to an offer sheet while he is in arbitration … don’t know the validity of it though.
That sounds right to me, because it’s a player-elected arbitration, meaning neither side can walk away prior to the hearing, and the only way a contract doesn’t get signed is if it’s over the Magic Number and Chicago walks away, in which case Niemi’s an UFA anyway.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Let them take Turco.
I hope we can help jack up the price just a bit!
Then we can get Nemi of a revenge discount!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
I’m actually not a fan of Niemi. He can make good saves, but isn’t a top-notch goalie. Plus he can let in softies (see: Nashville series).
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
any goaltending duo is better than ours right now. can anyone find a team with a worse tandem?
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Edmonton. Because their only NHL goalie under contract is Nikolai Khabibulin, and he’s a drunk with a bad back. Maybe Chicago, too, if you look at value. Boucher certainly provides better value than Huet (and he’ll likely provide a better value for whomever they replace him with once he’s waived and sent to the AHL), and I doubt Niemi will be worth whatever the arbitrator gives him.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
well edmonton is basement team but we are supposed to be a contender. true niemi will be overpaid but niemi is already better than leighton and has a higher ceiling for improvement
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
You think so? I didn’t see anything special in Niemi.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Niemi stole several games against the Sharks and arguably stole game 2 in scf.
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
And Marty Biron stole the Flyers-Montreal series two years ago.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
And Biron is a steal for the Rangers.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 9, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Islanders: DiPietro (the hobbling IR) and Roloson
Predators: Rinne and nobody
Capitals: Varlamov and Neuvirth
Sharks: Niittymaki and Greiss
preds really? Rinne looks like a stud.
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I put the predators on there more for the “and nobody” part. He might be, but this year he is the man and doesn’t have anyone to really back him up. This year will be a real tester and could play out really bad or really good.
i thought that the Preds were a pretty good goalie factory from my understanding
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
true that but they stopped doing that awhile ago and the jury is still out on greiss. I’d gladly take 2/3 goalies produced in the sharks factory (kipper and nabby) and I won’t mention the other one (toskola)
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No. They are a great system team. Every goalie looks better than he really is. They do tend to develop the goalies “slightly”. But Dan Ellis at $1.8 is about right.
(headslap thinking about Homer signing Leighton early).
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
haha, I’m with you on the headslap.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 9, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I just figured out who is to blame for the Leighton signing. It’s f’ing Craig Anderson.
Journeyman goalie, bounces around the league a little, plays decent two seasons ago, then last off-season CO signs him to a 1.8MM contract for 2 seasons. Presto, the guy has an amazing year and now most of the league looks like fools for not scooping him up last year.
Fast forward, Flyers meeting where they contemplate that Leighton might be the next CA and that they had better sign him before some other team takes a chance on him and they look like idiots for not signing him.
F’ing Craig Anderson. I knew I hated that guy for a reason.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Except, of course, Leighton could be this year’s Anderson.
Just sayin’…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
well yeah…but that’s not the point. Somebody needed to figure out what Holmgren was thinking.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Which goes back to the fanpost comparing the two.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 9, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
right, i missed that one
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Which goes back to the fanpost comparing the two.
That was a good Fanpost.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
In other news: Flames hire future Flames GM Jay Feaster as assistant to Sutter
..
So what is the over/under on how long Sutter keeps his job?
um…midseason when Jokinen shows how much of a bum he is and Iginla is on the trading block
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
According to CapGeek he got a NMC.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
why is it so enjoyable watching other teams screw themselves up? maybe it reminds us homer isn’t so bad (well until he waives gagne)
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
In any strategy its now always about making a winning move, but waiting for your opponent to make a mistake.
It also gives reference points to truly measure Homer, and other GMs
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
so is anyone else here hoping that the devils sign kovalchuk to a ridiculous deal with nmc, have to trade away players, dwell in cap hell, and be unable to resign zajac and parise as a result?
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Frankly I enjoy Flyers/Devils games … they are always good because they are both (usually) really good teams. I’d hate to lose that competitiveness for 10 years
they’d still be competitive for a few years until brodeur retires
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Bordeur is done.
Mentally he cant handle Playoff pressure
They are just in denial.
The sooner they realize that the quicker they recover.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
I agree. If our showing NJ the door very quickly in this year’s playoffs doesn’t prove the point by itself, combine that with his performance for Team Canada in the Olympics. Come to think of it, think of every Devils’ postseason after their last Cup in 2003. That was the last time he was the “classic” Brodeur.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t know if i’d say he is done. overworked and slowing down yes. he needs more rest. I mean he still posted .916 S%, 2.24 GAA, and 9 shutouts. problem is he plays 70+ games and is old now so by playoff time he is spent
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I get what you’re saying. I guess Hedberg will help in that regard (but he’s only one year younger). It will be strange to see Brodeur play a semi-platoon role this upcoming year, if that is what the Devs do. (If they don’t, I predict they won’t get far next posteason as well.)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
YES!!!!
Also having hims sign a big NHL contract will make force the players association really demand Crosby to ask for the Max when his contract expires.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
so in other news. are we going to have to wait until next week for homer to make his moves?
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions
http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2010/07/09/sports/doc4c369cf0eab50678644369.txt
funny times talking bad trades in Philly history. I still find it hard to believe Flyers traded so much for Lindros, but they were terrible back then and desperate
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions
Wouldn’t have been as terrible if they kept some of those players and those draft picks (especially that Forsberg fella — don’t suppose you’ve ever heard of him?). I mean, all those guys did was win a Cup a few years later in Colorado.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
He was the gimmick or carrot that helped get people to by all the extra seats in the bigger building
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
Lindros was also amazing in his prime. It’s a deal that in hindsight you can question, but at the time and in the seasons following, nobody questioned at all, as Lindros was clearly the real deal. Unfortunately a combination of bad breaks and never being able to get all the pieces in place at the right time cost Philly a cup, but we were certainly close.
makes me wonder what would’ve happened had we not run into FLA in the playoffs in 1996 when they got beat by Colorado. Would’ve been a great storyline and test
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
worth more than all they gave up to a team that won the cup with the players we gave them.does anyone know who the two #1 picks turned out to be?
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
But you’re leaving out the role of Patrick Roy vs Mario Tremblay and how Montreal made the biggest blunder in it’s franchise history and traded away a HoF goalie even after he delivered them a cup. Without that trade, who knows whether Colorado ever would have won a cup? The Lindros trade can’t be looked at in a vaccuum, not to mention, Forsberg was all potential at the time, and there’s no way to know that he develops into one of the best ever.
He delivered them TWO Cups – 1986 and 1993.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
…and then delivered two more cups to Colorado
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s exactly right. Without Patrick Roy, there is no Peter Forsberg legacy to bring up. You can bet that Lindros if he would have played for Quebec/Colorado that he would have won a couple of cups and Forsberg would have been forced to play in front of what passed as goaltending for the Flyers during that era and then we’d be complaining about how we should have traded Forsberg for Lindros because Lindros won cups and Forsberg injured his foot and became ineffective.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 9, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
either way we lose b/c we don’t have any goaltending…kinda like this year
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/07/is-marty-turco-playing-his-cards-right.html
http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20100708/SPORTS/7080358/1001/rss
interesting articles. Turco still seeking atleast $2.5 million hahaha.no way bud, keep on waiting. He’ll be lucky to get the $2 million Homer offered him before
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 3:27 PM EDT reply actions
And now it’s official: Zherdev is a Flyer. No Terms Disclosed
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=534123
"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."
Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson
I feel like its the start of a bud light party commercial
here we gooooo!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
yay!!!! now maybe all the dominos should fall into place (1st with terms and then by ending this gagne drama)
by historywillbemade on Jul 9, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Im really excited about this.
Our D is truly a force to be feared, and Zherdev could be an absolute Monster!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
Caps will take Carter off your hands to help with the cap situation. You can thank us later.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
He’ll be around until the trade deadline next year, at least.
We’d take Knuble back, though. Is that OK?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 9, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
then you really would have to get rid of Carter in order to fit under the cap – assuming Zherdev is signed for somewhere between 2M and 3M, which I’m guessing at.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
I know this is incredibly late so I don’t know how many people will read this, but….
I always liked the idea of replacing the All Star Game with a mini Champions League (like in UEFA).
Hockey is a global sport. Let’s take it to the next level. Imagine having the Blackhawks, TPS (from SM Liiga), Ak Bars Kazan (KHL) and HV71 (SEL) playing a four team tournament to be the best in the world.
The other three teams also have former NHLers. It would really help to build hockey as a global game, with the NHL being the top league. Yes, the Stanley Cup Champs will win most of the time, but the long-term benefits of building the sport globally (and eventually having a full Champions league) will result in a lot more money and a lot more talent.
Plus, it would be something different!
That would be really cool, I agree. But how will you get those teams, especially the Blackhawks, to agree to add those games on top of regular season games? It’d be like having all their players go to the Olympics, with no other teams having to deal with the same fatigue issues.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I’m a big HV71 fan from my time spent in Jonkoping Sweden in 2008 doing my student teaching
by historywillbemade on Jul 10, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya, it would be a tough sell. I wonder what kind of financial bonus or advertising deal could be thrown together to compensate the teams and players to play in this kind of mini round robin tournament.
One of the most important aspects of qualifying for Champions League football is the amount of money that playing in the Champions League brings into the club. I know that those European countries would love a Champions League-type hockey tournament, not to mention what it would do for advertising the NHL. Playing preseason games in Sweden and Finland is one thing, but imagine playing competitive games against the best European clubs in Europe. It would be huge with European hockey fans, I think.
Basically, the ball would be in the NHL’s court obviously. They are the top hockey league in the world and have the most to lose. But, the game of hockey could gain a lot and this could really do a lot for relations between the NHL and the European Leagues.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
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