The Philadelphia Flyers, Your 2010 Stanley Cup Champions?
by Travis Hughes on Aug 10, 2010 3:17 PM EDT
in Commentary
Email
PrintOkay, so that title is a little misleading. But in the wake of the Ilya Kovalchuk arbitration ruling yesterday and the dismissal of his 17-year contract with the Devils, one other fascinating point has been raised.
We talked last night about how Richard Bloch mentioned in his ruling that contracts for Chris Pronger, Marian Hossa, Marc Savard and Roberto Luongo could still be thrown out by the NHL for circumenting the salary cap, as prohibited in Article 26 of the CBA. Outside of tossing the contract out, there are penalties that the Commissioner could levy on teams if they are found to be in violation of Article 26.
According to the CBA, Gary Bettman himself may fine any team that circumvents the cap up to $5 million, force forfeiture of draft picks as determined by the Commissioner, and force forfeiture of games. Ah, yes, that last one got your attention, didn't it?
The exact language of that section:
(iv) Declare a forfeiture of any NHL Game(s) determined to have been affected by a Circumvention;
Which leads me to where we're going with this: could the Blackhawks be forced to forfeit their Stanley Cup victory? Hear me out on this.
There's one difference between the Hossa deal and those of Pronger, Savard and Luongo. The latter three do not begin until this upcoming season, while the Hossa deal began at the start of last season. As a result, only the circumvention by the Blackhawks in the Hossa deal would have impacted NHL games.
If the League determines that the Hossa contract was in violation of Article 26 of the CBA, it would be fully within their power to strip the Blackhawks of all 68 wins -- 52 regular season, 16 playoff -- that they racked up in 2009-2010. Obviously, the Stanley Cup would go with them.
Now, this probably will never happen, but in line with the CBA and in line with the precedent set by Bloch's ruling, it could. And if it did, what would happen to the Cup? Would there just be no winner in 2009-2010, or would the runner up have claim to the title? Or would perhaps some other team -- the AHL champion Hershey Bears, perhaps -- have the right to a claim?
As a disclaimer, I'd never want this to happen, because A) it'd be a terrible way to end a 35 year Cup drought, B) the Blackhawks beat us fair and square and C) Hossa basically sucked in the Finals anyway.
We don't have access to the current agreement between the NHL and the Stanley Cup Trustees, who are the independent owners of the Cup. (The NHL does not own the Cup.) Unfortunately, we can only presume what would happen in this case -- it would like be solely up to the two Trustees, Brian O'Neill and Ian "Scotty" Morrison, who according to the Hockey Hall of Fame, "have absolute power over all matters regarding the Stanley Cup."
83 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
…Well…that would be…interesting.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Hmm. If they void Hossa’s contract, why not void Briere’s? I know there’s a difference between a contract ending roughly at ages 38 and 42, but still, if you’re going to go that far:
Hossa:
2009-2010 $7,900,000 $7,900,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2010-2011 $7,900,000 $7,900,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2011-2012 $7,900,000 $7,900,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2012-2013 $7,900,000 $7,900,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2013-2014 $7,900,000 $7,900,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2014-2015 $7,900,000 $7,900,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2015-2016 $7,900,000 $7,900,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2016-2017 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2017-2018 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2018-2019 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2019-2020 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
2020-2021 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 — NO DATA $5,275,000
Briere:
2007-2008 $10,000,000 $10,000,000 — NO DATA $6,500,000
2008-2009 $8,000,000 $8,000,000 — NO DATA $6,500,000
2009-2010 $8,000,000 $8,000,000 — NO DATA $6,500,000
2010-2011 $7,000,000 $7,000,000 — NO DATA $6,500,000
2011-2012 $7,000,000 $7,000,000 — NO DATA $6,500,000
2012-2013 $7,000,000 $7,000,000 — NO DATA $6,500,000
2013-2014 $3,000,000 $3,000,000 — NO DATA $6,500,000
2014-2015 $2,000,000 $2,000,000 — NO DATA $6,500,000
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Because Briere’s salary drops somewhat naturally, there’s an nmc, and it’s reasonable to expect him to play til 38.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 3:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mark Recchi’s living proof that you can still be effective at 42, but that’s a very good point with the NMC. I didn’t realize Hossa doesn’t have a NTC or NMC.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
True, but Recchi is one of only 33 players in the history of the NHL to play past age 41. As I said before, Kovy has never demonstrated half the heart of any of those 33 guys. Would anyone (in their right mind) put Kovy in a class of players like Messier, Toe Blake, Chelios, Brett & Bobby Hull, Gordie Howe? I seriously doubt it…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
Or, if you’re Greg Wyshynski: “Look! 33 other guys have played past 41! That’s a lot! The NHL hates the Devils!”
That’s the thing about statistics, out of context you can use them whatever way you like.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
That is what I would expect from him…
Talbot should have called Wysh a douche!
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
Considering the odds of playing past 41 there’s no way a guy can realistically sign a contract at age 27 and say he will be playing past that age.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 4:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed…even if you just go from say 1980…figure an average of 570 players in the league a year (lowballing-30 teams/23 players is 690/year, so for sake of argument I have taken 3600 off to allow for years not having 30 teams)…that’s 17,000 players have stepped onto NHL ice just in the last 30 years…33 TOTAL in the league’s ENTIRE HISTORY have played past 41. Kovy IS NOT, and NEVER WILL BE one of those players…
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
Your not accounting for players playing more than 1 season but its still ridiculously small.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 5:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You’re not accounting for players playing more than 1 season but its still ridiculously small.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 5:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Briere’s only has 2 ‘OBVIOUS’ divebacks (again I define OBVIOUS as any year the player is paid less than 50% of the average salary, in this case an average of $6.5M), also this deal was signed at and age where there is no reason to speculate (barring injury) that Briere will not be able to fulfill the contract at age 38.
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
By that definition they are divebacks but by common sense they are not. Its reasonable for Briere to be paid 3 mil and 2 mil respectively when he is 37 and 38. Its as if the flyers put a 6 yr contract and a 2 yr contract together to make an 8 yr deal.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 3:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I think that Danny Briere’s contract is no problem. As you said it’s totally fair to pay him that amount at those ages. He’ll definitely play to the end of it unless he (knocks on wood) has a career ending injury. Plus the NMC helps.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Aug 10, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
And I agree with that, what I am saying is that they are not GROSSLY OBVIOUS, like the 4 years in Hossa’s deal, or the 7 that would have been in Kovy’s deal…
Now, the final 2 years of Pronger’s deal ARE grossly Obvious, BUT…we are stuck with the $4.9M cap hit regardless of his salary, regardless if he even plays, so I don’t think we are in for any real trouble on Pronger’s deal.
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
So were all in accordance, the Flyers contracts are safe, whether or not it’s good for the Flyers.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 6:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think the league would never be foolish enough to open that can of worms. At most the hawks would get every other penalty but not void their season.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 3:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agreed. Gary Bettman likes closure. No going back!
Brett Hull likes this about Bettman
I’m guessing draft choices. And thus, it is even less likely that the Flyers would be fined for Pronger (there aren’t any!! :-))
Raul Ibanez: since Moyer is on the DL, he is fast becoming our favorite old guy.
Rooting against a certain LW for the Tampa Bay Lightning will be impossible.
The lulz would be on the league too.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 3:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True it’d be lulz on us watching the NHL.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 4:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True it’d be lulz on us for watching the NHL.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 4:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the real lulz would be if they did it and then fined the team $5m
Since the fine comes straight off the cap, it would amount to them losing Hossa and only getting $233k in cap space.
It’d never happen, but it would be extremely worthy of the lulz.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
That would be worse than if they got everyone back on the ice in the Dallas Buffalo Cup finals and said, “I know we already shot the confetti and all, but the game actually isn’t over, Sorry”. No way the league would do that.
Whoops! Sorry, didn’t read down this far, sorry for stealing your idea!
Raul Ibanez: since Moyer is on the DL, he is fast becoming our favorite old guy.
Rooting against a certain LW for the Tampa Bay Lightning will be impossible.
Hossa basically sucked in the Finals anyway
Disagree. That man is a bear on skates, and their best forward in the series.
I just irrationally hate him, that’s all.
Visit the BSH Store :: Get us on Twitter :: facebook, too!
Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Aug 10, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah screw him and his ability to make the best of his opportunity in Chicago. If would have just stood out here we could’ve gotten something for him.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 4:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, I hated him here, too. I think he’s bad and lazy, even though it’s been objectively proved otherwise.
I had no feelings toward him either way when he was here. He looked like a third-line guy at best to a career AHLer to me. Then he goes to Chicago and becomes a versatile top 6 forward.
Yeah, Hossa was absolutely their best forward in the series. Whatever line he was put on seemed to be the best line of the night (outside of game 5). He just creates so much room for everyone else b/c he always seems to draw in that second defender b/c he shields the first one off so effectively; then add in his vision and passing ability…man I think I just talked myself in to a man crush.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Ew
That’s more like a venereal disease than a man crush
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
I might hate him, but the guy is really darn good…can’t help it. Actually he is one of my teammates favorite players, and we all give him crap for liking him so much, but the guy is the goods.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Overly hairy, sleepy in wintertime and adept at catching fish with his hands?
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
Jesus Saves...He Passes, He Shoots...HE SCORES!
Maybe somewhat related
The Melbourne Storm are arguably the most successful NRL team (rugby league) in the past ten years
As a result of an NRL investigation, it was announced on 22 April 2010 that the Storm had been stripped of its 2007 and 2009 premierships and its 2006-2008 minor premierships, fined a record $1,689,000, deducted all eight premiership points and barred from receiving further premiership points for the rest of the 2010 season after being found guilty of gross long-term salary cap breaches
The salary cap is approximately $4 million, and it was recently found that the cap breach was by approx $3.5 million! Apparently players had been receiving money that was not from their contract in the form of house, boats and cars.
I don’t think cap circumvention around one player is as serious as completely flouting the cap for 4-5 years, but this shows teams have been stripped of championships before due to breaking league rules.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Sure teams have been stripped of championships before but this rugby not one of the big 4 North American sports. Also because the Stanley Cup trust has the right to make any cup based decisions, theoretically if the league made Chi forfeit the season, the Cup trust could still award Chi the cup.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 3:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Rugby league is probably the second biggest sport in Australia after cricket. It’s certainly not a direct comparison though
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
I don’t doubt the importance of rugby to Australia but I think a better comparison would be NCAA sports where seasons and championships get voided left and right for impropriety.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 4:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well I don’t know anything about those sports, I went with what I know.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
I’m thinking of voiding any previous championships in my fantasy football league for circumvention. I found out last years champ had purchased “Fantasy for Dummies” and subsequently won the league with Chris Johnson. It’s an OBVIOUS circumvention.
Hey, Chris Johnson was a great pick last year. I know, because I drafted him. 15 wins later and I get beat in the first round by 2 points. That’s one of Kurt Warner’s 3 fumbles that week.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Aug 10, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm…were the runners ups for those two premierships subsequently awarded the premierships? Or were they just left with no champions those seasons.
Well from what I’ve read of this case it is interesting (very) and it is comparable, in that rugby league is probably followed by a larger proportion of Australia’s population than hockey and the respective proportion in the United States.
You’re right this is far more serious than cap circumvention. But then again, stripping them of two premierships, three President’s Trophy equivalents, and forcing them from playing a season without accumulating points is amazingly harsh, and I can’t believe how hard it must be to be a fan of that team. People should check out the absurdity of this ladder: http://www.nrl.com/telstrapremiership/ladder/tabid/10251/default.aspx look at the team at the bottom.
And it appears that they didn’t use the cap breaching tactic to acquire new players, but rather to keep players they had developed that demanded raises (that doesn’t excuse it…but yeah…)
On the article itself, when the Flyers break their drought, I want to be able to celebrate a won hockey game, a season of glory, and see Richie lifting the cup and passing it to Gags Pronger. The point of the season is, in many ways, not about having the cup, it is about winning the cup.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Aug 11, 2010 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey sweet, we can combine this “awarded” championship with the Super Bowl in 2005 that the Patriots were apparently supposed to forfeit.
Hooray, cheap championships! Plan the belated parade!!
I never saw that the Pats were suppossed to forfeit that super bowl. Who said that?
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 3:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If they voided Hossa’s, then they’d void Pronger’s extention. We we’d get a crappy fake Cup, and no Pronger. No thank you.
Although I would HOPE he would “re-sign” here and not be a dick about it.
The league wouldn’t necessarily void Pronger’s and the Flyer’s would’nt necessarily get the Cup.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 4:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This, to me, is similar to the Phillies part 1 of game 5 of the ’08 WS. That game easily could have been called in the 7th, giving the Phills a WS championship, but the league did everything it could to avoid that. Which will be the case here.
The NHL literally has to do nothing to avoid this problem.
by tmurder on Aug 10, 2010 4:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
hahaha that was funny as shit to me
"I'd like to thank my hands for being so great." (Freddie Mitchell)
by PhillySportsDave on Aug 10, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Amusing thought. Ironically appropriate (ok, not really, but hear me out) in a season where the advertising campaign was all about starting with some great moment and backing up and asking “what if that never happened?”
Agreed, that’s a very interesting parallel
by DragonGirl0583 on Aug 11, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t want to win the cup that way, not at all. The result of the series was Chicago beat us (as much as I hate to say it, they did). They deserve the cup (and as somebody said the Stanley Cup trust can still award them the cup, I guess just won’t be the champions in the eyes of the league?? I don’t know.
The only way i would accept the cup is that if they have a rematch of the cup finals with the same rosters as there were in the cup finals, and the result of that rematch had us winning the cup then I would accept us having the cup. Other than that no way.
Either way, this scenario is very unlikely to happen. The most is they may void Hossa’s contract and maybe fine the team but nothing else.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
It seems to me that Everyone has missed the next question. What if both hossa and pronger contracts are voided?
Lol
bettman is dumb but I don’t think he wants to get into that
by manko on Aug 10, 2010 7:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well, Pronger’s doesn’t kick into this year — he was still on his previous contract for ‘09-10. So technically even if his new 7 year contract is rejected, it couldn’t hurt what the Flyers did in ’09-10.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Then that means that the Habs are the rightful winners? Or the sharks??
Nah Ben Feldman said it, Pronger’s goes into effect this season so it would have no effect.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Aug 10, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't this change things earlier in the playoffs too?
Game 5 Preds@Chi was largely won on the triumphs and foibles of Hossa. What if he wasn’t there? I think the Preds win that game…going to game 6 @home with a 3-1 lead. Hmmm. Then again, playing in the flood wouldn’t have been fun.
This just would create a huge mess. What’s done is done, let’s move on. Negate the contracts if they have to, fine the teams, just don’t play around with the records.
So you're saying the SCTrust could just give the Cup to the President's Trophy winners?
Heh, I’ll take it.
Also, I don’t think you can change what happened at this point. Not even a Fraser Leafs-screwing in addition to the contracts would get the NHL to change things, if you ask me. Especially to a big Original Six American team.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
Follow me on Twitter!
A bunch of young professionals in the DC area drunk in the streets, Ted Leonsis screaming vindication, and not one of the players or coaching staff in sight.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Well, I mean I’d rather have it than another team, I think. Getting kind of desperate over here, if you know what I mean.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
Follow me on Twitter!
by red army line on Aug 11, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it just me...
Or does anyone have the feeling that Gary Bettman is going to let the Pronger contract go until the Flyers win the Stanley Cup, and then use this same ruling to prevent the Flyers from winning anything?
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- How Mats Sundin’s no-trade clause controversy made fans reconsider loyalty in NHL
- Nordiques Nation invades Hockey Day in Canada
- Youth hockey coach, parents clash over alleged tirade over 9-year old’s 200th goal puck
- Friday’s Three Stars: Blackhawks lose seventh straight; Wings win nineteenth straight at home
- Puck Previews: Blackhawks reeling; Sabres streaking; Holmstrom’s 1000th game
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
