SB Nation's Mock NHL Expansion Draft: Creating the Flyers' protected list
by Travis Hughes on Aug 31, 2010 12:39 PM EDT
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PrintThe SB Nation hockey community is in the process of putting together a mock expansion draft. Last week, at SBNation.com, we polled readers, asking them which cities to which our league should expand. The results? Quebec and Winnipeg.
So over the weekend, when we polled them on team nicknames... well, let's just say people aren't that creative.
The Quebec Nordiques and Winnipeg Jets are ready to draft, but first, they need a pool of players to pick from. That's where we come in, sort of. Each team blog at SB Nation is creating a "protected list" of players that cannot be poached away from their team. The remaining players will be available for the two new GM's -- Gabe Desjardins and James Mirtle -- to select.
After the jump, we'll break down a few rules and start the debate.
The rules are as follows:
- Teams can protect either "1 goalie, 5 defensemen and 9 forwards" OR "2 goalies, 3 defensemen and 7 forwards."
- If you go the two goalie route, at least one goalie left unprotected must have played in at least 10 games last season OR 25 games in the last two seasons combined. One game = at least 31 minutes.
- Each team must leave unprotected at least one defenseman who appeared in 40 games last season OR 70 games in the last two seasons combined.
- Each team must leave unprotected at least two forwards who appeared in 40 games last season OR 70 games in the last two seasons combined.
- If you've played 49 games or less in the NHL, you're exempt and automatically protected.
According to those rules, the following players are exempt from this process:
Goalies: Johan Backlund, Sergei Bobrovsky, Nicola Riopel, Brian Stewart
Defense: Erik Gustafsson, Marc-Andre Bourdon, Joonas Lehtivuori, Kevin Marshall, Tyler Hostetter
Forwards: Mike Testwuide, Andrew Rowe, Stefan Legein, David Laliberte, Andreas Nodl, Garrett Klotz, Ben Holmstrom, Luke Pither, Shane Harper, Eric Wellwood, Zac Rinaldo, Patrick Maroon, Matt Clackson
We're obviously going the "1 goalie" route, so we need to protect...
- one goaltender
- five defensemen
- nine forwards
So, let's get the obvious selections out of the way.
On defense, we'll be protecting Chris Pronger, Kimmo Timonen, Matt Carle and Braydon Coburn. That's four, leaving one spot open.
At forward, we'll be protecting Danny Briere, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, James van Riemsdyk, Claude Giroux, Nikolai Zherdev and Ville Leino. You're probably asking why Scott Hartnell isn't on the list. Well, we didn't have an internal consensus on protecting him, and the money could prevent him from even being selected in the expansion draft.
We'll debate this more as we go on.
We have one more defenseman to protect, one goaltender and two forwards. This is the pool of players that are still unprotected.
Goal (select one): Michael Leighton, Brian Boucher
Defense (select one): Andrej Meszaros, Oskars Bartulis, Matt Walker, Sean O`Donnell, Dan Jancevski
Forwards (select two): Scott Hartnell, Ian Laperriere, Blair Betts, Dan Carcillo, Jody Shelley, Darroll Powe, Greg Moore
We'll open polling on each of these positions later today, and that'll stretch into tomorrow, but for now, let's just start the debate on this. Who from this list should be protected?
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Boosh, Bartulis, Lappy, Betts. I was going to say Hartnell instead of Betts, but I’m not willing to see the team collapse without their fourth line center again. I’m not sure about your concerns about money though, because this is a brand new team and they’d have to try really hard to reach $59.4 million, I’d think. Sure, you’d have your Hartnells and Reddens you could pick up, but almost all of the bigger contracts in the league are for players who more or less are critical to their teams.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
you totally had me scared that the flyers picked up scott walker and i just didn’t hear about it. but you mean matt walker right? haha.
id be afraid of betts or laperriere would be the ones to be swiped. and leighton and bartulis cause they’re younger.
Fixed
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Aug 31, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, my bad. I guess that was wishful thinking.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Aug 31, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t wait to see people argue over these.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Aug 31, 2010 12:55 PM EDT reply actions
Question regarding the rules for leaving someone unprotected, is it 40 games for us last season, or 40 games in the NHL last season? I just wanted to make sure it’s the latter, because otherwise we would have to leave Bartulis unprotected since he would be the only one to meet the criteria on the D.
Assuming it’s the latter, I go with Boosh, Bartulis, Betts, and Lappy, same as Ben. Katchis has me a bit scared on Meszaros, so I’m hesitant to protect him, and he might, like Hartnell, go unclaimed because of the money. I think we need to keep at least two of Betts/Lappy/Powe; because while Nodl can replace one of them, I don’t see another of the automatically protected players who I’m sure can fill in a solid 4th if we only protected one instead of two.
by DragonGirl0583 on Aug 31, 2010 12:58 PM EDT reply actions
40 NHL games.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Aug 31, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
are we sure we'd protect Briere?
i feel like this is a good opportunity to clear some salary. let’s do something wild, drop Briere and Hartnell (both of whom are guaranteed to be picked in such a draft) and save ourselves almost $11m in cap space? We can really use that cap space — sign our young guys long term, get an FA or some such (I assume such a draft would take place before FA).
I propose dropping Briere, and protecting Carcillo/Betts/Powe.
On the G spot, protect Leights — 2 years of him and then Bobrov or Backlund or some such is satisfactory.
On D, can either continue to free up salary by dropping Mesz or keeping a younger guy like Bartulis. Considering we’re dropping Briere/Hartnell, I would suggest keeping Mesz since we have the salary space to do so, and he’s about as good as they come youth/salary wise on the FA market (as in, I think he’s getting paid too much, but in 2 years that won’t be the case).
Is losing Briere instead of Meszaros really worth $2.5 million?
I like your thinking, I just don’t like the execution.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Aug 31, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i think maybe
Briere is on the wrong side of 30.
So, you get 6 years and $2.5m per year, and your defense stays elite. I think F is easier to replace (at cheaper salary) than D.
But I see your point, Briere is obviously better than Meszaros… In terms of value and flexibility though, I think Meszaros is a better guy to keep. Much easier to trade than Briere, too.
I understand. Good reasons.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Aug 31, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
well thanks
all that said, it might be even more fun to lose Meszaros too, we’d really be able to do anything we wanted salary wise then. Maybe get a Paul Martin type to fill that gap, or even be in on Kovalchuk or some such shenanigannery.
I fully agree. There’s already a glut of centers (Richards, Carter, Giroux, Betts, Powe) and Briere is definitely an expensive contract to keep. Besides, would an expansion team pick up such a hefty salary? If they do, we have enough to resign Carter. If they don’t, you still have Briere and can move Carter later.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
When you look at who will be available after every team protects, Briere will get snatched up in a heartbeat. You still have to sell tickets that first year, and someone for the young talent to learn from.
Also: motherfucker just lead the league in playoff scorer. You people are insane if you consider letting him walk. He does it every May/June.
You still gotta choose – Briere, who is admittedly a playoff scoring machine, or Carter, who is a regular season scoring machine? YOU CAN’T HAVE BOTH. Me, I choose Carter.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Except you can have both. There’s a thousand different ways next summer could play out, and none of the decision faced will boil down to a simple choice between Carter or Briere.
And the original argument was whether or not to protect him. That’s stupid. Even trading that contract can get you 50 cents on the dollar.
You show me the math that you can fit Carter on the team with his salary, and I’ll bow out (since I’ve tried and can’t). Until then, YOU CAN’T HAVE BOTH. (Unless you’re willing to do something exceptionally stupid, like letting Giroux walk.)
Besides, as I said, I don’t see any expansion team jumping at the chance for an undersized center whose numbers have realistically been averaging around 60 points in the regular season (barring ONE season in Buffalo), who has no idea what defensive responsibility means, is 32 years old already with multiple injury-riddled seasons, and costs $6.5 million a season for the next three years!!! An expansion team doesn’t CARE what his playoff production is – they won’t make the damn playoffs anyway!
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Do we have to pick a goalie? I guess Boosh, because someone might want to poach him for backup duties, and if Leights is taken we’d HAVE to address the goaltending issue.
Meszaros might be safe because of that contract, but losing him is a bigger risk than losing Sean O’Donnell (who might be taken despite his age) or Bartulis (who might be taken because of his age). Protect Andres.
Betts is a given. Losing Hartnell might be a godsend going into the Cap Clusterfuck of Summer 2011, so I can’t justify protecting him (especially with so many veterans still unsigned in the market that could fill a similar enough role).
I think Powe, Carcillo, or Lappy is most likely to be stolen if unprotected. I think we can replace Powe within the system (Nodl finally has a use), and there’s no reason to protect Carbomb with that contract.
Lot of words to come up with what a lot of people have already said: Boosh, Meszaros, Betts, Lappy.
I say Leighton, Meszaros, Lappy, and Hartnell. It’s easy enough to replace an enforcer, and O’Donnell, although a nice depth d-man for the Flyers, really isn’t an indispensable part of the team. However, I am on the fence on Hartnell. If JVR steps up this year and really plays like the power forward he’s supposed to be, then it isn’t too big a loss. But if he can’t drive hard to the net and set up shop in front, we really won’t have anyone not named richards to fill that role among our top 2-3 lines. As it is I think we missed out on a lot of rebound goals in close when we lost Knuble last year. So, although I would love to protect a strong PK and faceoff guy like Betts, I don’t think we can afford to lose Hartnell until van Riemsdyk establishes himself in that net-crashing role.
Goalie: leights out Leighton
Defenseman: Meszaros
Forwards: Powe and Lappy(both are great defenders and can score 5-10 goals each(Powe could score 10+ if he was on another line) Plus, Lappy gives us a fighter
Side Note: It was hard, but I had my parings at either Lappy and Powe or Betts and Carbomb. Lappy and Powe get the nod because I liked lappy before he was a Flyer and Powe is just like Betts, an everyman.
The laws of alchemy dont justify murder........but the laws of murder justify being a cowboys fan :P
Leighton, Powe, Meszaros, Hartnell
(decision to protect Powe was not easy as I am a fan of BOTH Lappy and Betts, but Powe have the Edge due to youth,upside & cost…)
Cheers,
Fezzy
http://fezzysworld.blogspot.com
...The fans are standing up to them! The security guards are standing up to them! The peanut vendors are standing up to them! And by golly, if I could get down there, I'd be standing up to them!
...Puttin on the Foil since 1969...
As a future Nordique fan (also an ex-Nordique fan) I would love to see any of the forward on our fourth line. But I would assure that none of the rumors are about expansion team. They are too many teams that have financial difficulties to stay put. A new arena will be announced shortly and we will have our Nordiques back before 2013.
I think we should definitely protect Lappy and Betts for the forwards. Everybody else is replacable, but these 2 are very, very important to our team, and have great contracts. Any team building will snatch these two right up.
For defense, I say Bartulis since he has a pretty good cap hit, and as much as I want O’Donnell as well, I think Bartulis is better long term for us.
Goalie I say Boucher. I don’t know how many building teams will take Leighton with his contract, and I think we would be able to replace him easily.
This si going to be fun!
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
Leighton’s contract isn’t that bad. Sure its an overpayment, but by how much 500k? Im not so sure that would scare away any team without a goalie. Also who are the available replacements? Turco’s gone and it appears Niemi wants a big chunk of change.
I agree with all your picks. I don’t think many teams will be looking at Carcillo, but Powe could be lost and I really like what Powe brings. That would be pretty bad but he could be replaced by Nodl.
Bartulis is better long term, and we get a chance to rid ourselves of one of Walker or Meszaros.
The goalie position was the most difficult for me, but I kept Boosh for sentimental reasons, and the hope that someone else has to lose a better tender (I also know how little Hawerchuk rates Leighton). If Backlund can step in and replace either of those guys, then the one with the bigger contract should be risked.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
…and we get a chance to rid ourselves of one of Walker or Meszaros.
I agree with that sentiment 100%
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Aug 31, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Should we, like, see Meszaros first? I don’t think he’s that replaceable in this FA market (for next year).
Ignoring the fact that you just passed judgment (he’s not that replaceable) as well, the Flyers already have 6 NHL defensemen signed for next year in addition to Meszaros, but next year’s free agent crop:
Tomas Kaberle, Joni Pitkanen, Kevin Bieksa, James Wisniewski, and Christian Ehroff among others.
But since the Flyers would still only need a #5 defenseman at most, they can choose between Sean O`Donnell, Anton Babchuk, Randy Jones, Mark Giordano, Andy Greene, Jeff Woywikta, Jordan Henry, Freddy Meyer, and Nick Boynton among others.
Having a D-corps of Pronger, Carle, Timonen, Coburn, Giordano, Bartulis, and Walker… Yeah, Meszaros is easily replaceable, just like Krajicek was easily replaceable this year.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Aug 31, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
By all accounts, Meszaros is better than Krajicek. It’s just about how much better. I understand it’s a fifth defenseman, but if we’ve decided to put our fortune in a defense over-loaded with talent, I’d rather not forfeit someone we know has talent.
The judgment I wanted you to think about was running him out of town before played a game because of his contract. I think he’s pretty clearly the best option for a fifth defenseman in our system next year, and next year may be our best chance at the cup in the next five years (unless you think Homer will handle next offseason perfectly, or even passably). Face it: as bad as this summer went, this team could still be good, and it will only get there with a superb defense. I don’t think there are clear better alternatives to play this position on this team still available on the open market.
I’d like a bad contract off the books as much as the next guy, but if we’re grounding this experiment in any kind of reality, Homer is still in control of that money.
Face it: as bad as this summer went, this team could still be good, and it will only get there with a superb defense. I don’t think there are clear better alternatives to play this position on this team still available on the open market.
Agreed entirely. But you said next year. And while Meszaros is the best option for #5 defenseman this year – since the Flyers already cleared space to afford him – I don’t think he is for next year and beyond. Since he’s signed for next year, this is a way to get rid of an unneeded player next year.
I’m thinking long-term. You’re thinking this year. If I’m losing players for nothing – as we would be in an expansion draft – I want to erase mistakes. You want to lose easily replaceable players. And that’s fine. Ben shares your opinion. I, however, look at it as a way to get more efficient while projecting long-term stability.
Give me an O`Donnell-Bartulis pairing this year with the ability to go grab somebody at the deadline (Tomas Vokoun?) with Meszaros’ money, and set up next year so you can a) afford Carter, Giroux, Leino, and Zherdev if you want; and b) allow a spot for one of your defensive prospects (Bourdon, Marshall, Gustafsson, Lehtivuori) to battle for a job – forcing either Bartulis, Walker, or a 2011 free agent signing out.
The drop off in skill this year is something I’m willing to accept if it means setting up next year, because to me, the benefits of shedding $4 million in long-term salary outweigh the loss in skill.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 1, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m using this year and next year interchangeably to reference the 2010-11 season. It’s a bad semantic habit.
It’s not that I don’t understand the issue being weighed here. I just assuming Meszaros was acquired with the understanding that he’s 24, talented, and won’t be our fifth-best defenseman forever. If we definitely need him this year, and his potential seems to be at least as high as Bartulis after this year, then I’m not sure leaving him unprotected is necessarily the answer.
I don’t want to mortgage this year for the future, but I don’t want to mortgage the future for this year. I think you can get the money back on Hartnell, and he’s more replaceable, both for this year and the future. I’d just rather have five ultra-capable d-men when the playoffs roll around.
Again, completely understand. I just do the calculus differently.
And yes, I plan on writing an anti-Mez paragraph for the vote. Feel free to counter in the comments.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 1, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
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