Michael Leighton out one month with bulging disc; Ian Laperriere out indefinitely with post-concussion issues
Just as we expected, Michael Leighton's back injury is slightly more serious than the Flyers originally led us to believe.
The goaltender, who signed a two-year, $3.1 million contract with the team over the summer, will miss a month with a bulging disc in his lower back. The four-week limit would leave him out of the lineup until about October 26th.
Paul Holmgren announced the news via a conference call on Tuesday afternoon. He says that the Flyers will not make a move for another goaltender, which leads us to believe Brian Boucher will be the starter on October 7 when the season begins in Pittsburgh. If Johan Backlund is not recovered by then, Sergei Bobrovsky will start the season in the NHL.
On the same conference call, Holmgren also announced that Ian Laperriere is out indefinitely with post-concussion problems stemming from the puck he caught in the face in the first round last year against New Jersey.
Lappy wasn't honest with the Flyers during the playoffs last year, for which some will certainly ridicule him. Most, however, will likely applaud his courage to get back to the team during their playoff run, despite his own health. Hopefully these concussion issues don't impact the rest of his career. It doesn't seem like a good outlook.
Holmgren says that Laperriere's injury has no say when it comes to Bill Guerin's place on the team, but, well, we'll see about that. One other thing to think about: how long has Holmgren known about Lappy's prognosis? While some are quick to jump and say that he likely knew about it when signing Jody Shelley and Dan Carcillo over the summer, that seems doubtful.
If the Flyers knew Laperriere was hurt this preseason, you have to believe they would have kept him out of the one exhibition game he's played in thus far.
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OMG

I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
by Katchis on Sep 28, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The Star Trek Facepalms are the best!!
But this surprised me about Lappy. I’m not so upset about Leighton since we all knew this was coming and he will either:
1) be out for a month or two longer than this because it’s a more serious problem.
or
2) they’ll rush him back and he’ll end up getting injured again.
Either way it seems more and more likely that Bobrovsky will be on the Flyers to start, and I am not looking forward to that. Here’s to a speedy recovery for Backlund so we don’t mess up our goalie of the future!
For Lappy though, I hope he heals up really soon, I can’t imagine this team without him but at least now we have space for Shelley and I hope that somebody fills the heart and soul void he leaves (Guerin anybody?)
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Sep 28, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It was an almost inexcusably stupid risk on Lappy’s part, but the intentions were golden and it seems like there were no major events to exacerbate the problem. Take your fucking time in recovery this time.
How long has Homer known this? Surely before he signed Carbomb and Powe. As far back as Shelley? During the playoff run?
Let’s do this again:
JVR-Carter-Guerin
Leino-Briere-Hartnell
Zherdev- Richards-Giroux
Carcillo-Powe-Shelley
Depth is good, after all.
I don’t know how well it would work, but I really like the look of that line-up.
Flyers fan since 1983. I missed the good stuff.
That fourth line is… not serving a purpose.
A) It’s missing Betts, who might be injured; B) You have two guys who will take a ton of penalties; and C) You now only have one guy who’s main job is killing those penalties.
The Flyers need to have two of Betts, Powe, and Nodl on that fourth line at all times. Otherwise, the team will have to use Richards, Giroux, Powe, and Carter to kill penalties. That’s not going to get it done, nor is it how you want to use your top players.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Switch Carbomb and Guerin?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
No
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Reasoning?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Because Geoff said so! Duh!
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Haha, how silly of me to question it.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
What good does Guerin do on a line with Powe and Shelley? Guerin averaged 0.42 seconds of PK time per game last year, so he doesn’t solve that problem.
Further, what exactly is a Guerin – Powe – Shelley line expected to do when they’re on the ice? Guerin scored 21 goals last year. Shelley has scored 16 goals in his 538 career games. That line isn’t scoring, it isn’t a line you can dispatch in the defensive zone, and it isn’t a line full of guys who can find ice time in special teams scenarios. In other words, it’s a wasted line that you constantly have to sneak out against the other team’s 4th line, hope they don’t get scored on, and tell them the objective for the next 40 seconds is… run in three different directions? Billy G – score some goals! Darroll P – Play some defense! Jody S – Smash some faces!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on what I’ve seen I think that would be a decent grind line that would be responsible in their own end. How is it not a defensive line? Guerin’s a good two-way guy, Powe is responsible and Shelly is big enough to get in people’s way.
I don’t understand what you’re saying… the 4th liners have to play the PK? I thought you’re problem that our two big PIM guys are playing with guys that play the PK thus when the penalty is taken their energy level is down? Moving Guerin down to that line gives you a more even distribution of killers with takers. So if Carbomb is taking penalties you lose Carter, if Shelley’s taking penalties you only lose Powe.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
that would be a decent grind line that
What is the aim of a grind-line? How much ice time would a “grind-line” get? When they can’t play on the PK, who does? So how many minutes a game are your top offensive players playing?
Guerin’s a good two-way guy
So you want to use him on a fourth-line, rather than with other two-way players (Richards, Giroux, Carter), thereby making him a one-way player (don’t get scored on)? Putting him with Powe and Shelley takes away his two-way game, since neither Powe nor Shelley have any offensive game whatsoever.
the 4th liners have to play the PK?
Who else will play the PK? The only other options are Richards, Carter, Giroux. Why would you put your first-unit Power Play and say they are also 75% of your penalty kill? Fourth-liners don’t have to play PK, but if the only other option is your top-6, then yes, your fourth line should be your penalty killers. But more importantly, what is the point in having 9 scorers, one PKer (Powe), and 2 “grinders” (Carcillo and Shelley)? That’s not at all balanced.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey I didn’t pick the players on the team. We have too many of the same types. What’s your solution for a Betts-less line-up?
Zherdev – Richards – JVR
Leino – Briere – Hartnell
Guerin – Carter – Giroux
Nodl – Powe – Carbomb ???
No matter what you do there’s no way (besides breaking up Leino/Briere/Hartsy) to get scoring depth and a 4th line that isn’t absolute crap. Is there?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Hartnell – Briere – Leino
JVR – Carter – Zherdev
Guerin – Richards – Giroux
Carcillo – Powe – Nodl
That’s two scoring lines, a two-way third line, and an effective fourth line with two penalty killers. Shelley can alternate with Carcillo depending upon recent play and matchup.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
What is Carbomb, Powe and Nodl good for? Again you have this:
hope they don’t get scored on, and tell them the objective for the next 40 seconds is… run in three different directions?Billy GNodl – score some goals! Darroll P – Play some defense!Jody SCarbomb – Smash some faces!
No?
You know what this line-up needs? Some Arron Asham……sigh.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
True. But if i conceded that then I couldn’t have blockquoted.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No, that’s not what you have. You have the same thing you do with Carcillo – Betts – Laperriere. Swap Powe for Betts, Nodl for Laperriere.
And the last thing this lineup needs is Arron Asham.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying that Nodl plays the PK then?
As much as I like Nodl and Powe I really don’t see them as the same players at Betts and Lappy but I’ll agree to disagree on that.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
No, they’re not the same, but they can play the same roles with similar degrees of success.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s just what I mean though, I don’t see them having similar roles. Also…
they can play the same roles with similar degrees of success.
How does this not mean same? haha.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Similar doesn’t not mean same. Maize is similar to yellow, but it’s not the same.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? Maize? Anyway, I was just busting your nuts as you say.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a Michigan fan, what can I say.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Maize is similar to yellow now? Edible yellow?
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
For those who follow Michigan sports, yes, it’s yellow.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No idea. It’s probably the better idea, I’m just so used to typing the top three lines like that by now.
Plus, I really have no faith in Carter succeeding on the wing.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
why is everybody all of a sudden changing the lines they previously stated. lappy and betts are out, how does that change the top 9? assuming guerin is signed and leino is healthy then….
carter-richards-guerin
hartnell-briere-leino
jvr-giroux-zherdev
nodl-powe-carcillo
Probably because the only line that was ever stated was the Briere line. Lavy hasn’t clarified which two of Richards, Carter, and Giroux are playing center, let alone who their linemates will be.
when i say they, i mean us. nobody was listing these weird jvr on the first line, richards on the third bs. check out the line projections threads…
Considering SanFilippo wrote below
JVR-Carter-Zherdev
Leino-Briere-Hartnell
Guerin-Richards-Giroux
Carcillo/Shelley-Betts-Powe
extra: Shelley/Carcillo, Nodl
That said, I’m not 100 percent convinced Guerin makes the team. I know that sounds crazy, but the Flyers brass quietly hasn’t been real impressed. He’s been O.K., but they’d rather he be a lot more than o.k. if they are going to keep him over some younger legs.
I don’t know how weird those suggestions are in reality. Also, the top 3 lines are interchangeable. They are in reality pretty close to being three 2nd lines. Also the line projection threads on here are just opinions, not facts, so to differ from them really isn’t that weird (outside of the Briere/Leino/Hartnell line).
Is this the right room for an argument?
again, why are hartnell, guerin, and leino out of their natural positions. and im saying rw for leino b/c you said that is a constant. so that’s three players not in the right spot. its weird that injuries to the fourth line make these players move..
I wouldn’t read too much into the order listed (LW/C/RW) that might just be something where people are justing listing the names across not paying attention to which side they are playing. Also Giroux came in as a RW, so maybe that’s why he listed Guerin on the left. I think you are trying to find something weird, when there isn’t anything weird there, people might just be listing the names as they think of them. Especially with Leino/Hartnell, I wouldn’t read in to that one at all. You know both Leino and Hartnell are LW’s…so I’m sure Leino will play the right like he did in the playoffs.
Is this the right room for an argument?
yeah i guess im just over analyzing but we were talking about lines and that lineup just didnt look right haha.
No worries, nothing much had changed. Honestly, when you roll 3 scoring lines like this, I wouldn’t worry about the order the lines appear in, nor would I worry about RW’s versus LW’s. I’m sure the lines will be broken up a lot during the year based on performance anyway.
Is this the right room for an argument?
1 Scott Hartnell 4.200 Mike Richards 5.750 Nikolai Zherdev 2.000
2 James van Riemsdyk 0.875 Jeff Carter 5.000 Ville Leino 0.800
3 Dan Carcillo 1.075 Danny Briere 6.500 Ian Laperriere 1.166
4 Jody Shelley 1.100 Claude Giroux 0.821 Darroll Powe 0.725
5
Blair Betts 0.700
Yes I’m aware, I can access capgeek, and NHL.com, and hockeydb, etc etc etc too. Point is, you are nitpicking on the sides. When people list lines, sometimes they don’t give too much thought as to who is playing the left and who is playing the right. Guerin and Giroux are both RW’s (if Giroux isn’t playing the middle) and Leino and Hartnell are both Left Wings. So again, just relax, this stuff isn’t out of left field.
There isn’t anything crazy going on here.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Why wouldn’t the 4th line just be Powe-Betts-Carcillo? Betts got the yellow jersey taken off recently, so there’s no reason why he’ll miss the beginning of the regular season unless he has a setback.
Powe takes over Lappy’s role as main PK guy with Betts. Carcillo and Shelley alternate as scratches depending on the matchup and injuries (Carcillo could be a fill in on the top-nine).
It would be so long as Betts is actually healthy.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And despite the organization’s poor reputation with regards to dealing with injuries, I can’t imagine they would allow Betts to be hit in practice if they didn’t truly believe he would be ready for Game 1.
That said, if he gets hurt again, you definitely have to consider bringing up Nodl to play on the 4th.
I agree with you to an extent Richards Giroux and Carter always killed penalties so they are going to be used regardless. They were saved time last season because Betts and Lappy usually started the PK chewing up the significant portion of the PK.
Like you said this is the time for Nodl to shine and he deserves a part on the team. I would really like to see Carcillo get more PK time here in the preseason and in drills. If Carcillo can turn into more of a Lappy type player he will have a much longer career in this league.
In 08-09, the Flyers had Carter, Richards, Gagne, and Knuble all get more than 2 minutes of PK time a game. They were the top four in PK time per game, with Metropolit coming in 5th. And that worked so well, that the team decided they didn’t want to do that any more. Hence Betts and Laperriere being brought in.
Last year, Betts and Laperriere led the team with 3:08 and 2:50 PKTOI/G, respectively. Richards saw his PK time drop by over a minute per game. Carter’s dropped by 1:16 per game. Gagne’s dropped by over 45 seconds per game. Claude Giroux only saw 53 seconds of PK time per game last year, so no, he isn’t used regardless.
While Richards and Carter will likely be used on the PK, Carter saw his PK time nearly cut in half last year. Even still, the Flyers are going to start the year without three of their top-6 in PKTOI/G from last year. Somebody has to eat those minutes, and it’s not smart to put your top offensive guys in those spots.
Good luck getting Carcillo to be a penalty killer. That’s simply not what he does. I’m reminded of the Mitch Hedberg joke: Ok, you’re a stand-up comic. Can you act? Can you write? No, I’m a comic.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you in 08-09 the burnt out Richards and Carter with all the “hard” minutes and they fixed that bring in Lappy and Betts to eat up PK them. But for the short term which Betts is out I think we can get by using some of those top guys. Long term it is not ideal and Nodl should be here for that.
Carcillo is 25 years old. He plays hard. No reason why he can’t learn to adapt his game to be a good to really good PKer if he has the will to do so and he is accepting of that role.
No reason why he can’t learn to adapt his game to be a good to really good PKer if he has the will to do so and he is accepting of that role.
But why tell a guy to stop being who he is, stop being what got him into the NHL, stop doing what has kept him in the NHL, and do something the team already has in Nodl?
It doesn’t make sense, especially when you can save $200k by using the guy who’s already really good at the role you need, instead of teaching a more expensive guy something he doesn’t yet know how to do.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Because Nodl doesn’t have a stache that sells shirts, a face that screams Philly nor an awesome nickname?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh come on there is a Cup O’ Nodl Soup shirt just waiting to be designed. Plus you know I’ll buy whatever Nodl shirt you make.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Actually, I was talking about the stupid NHL terribly designed “Fear the Stache” shirt, not our awesome, no crappy tag-line necessary shirt.
BTW, That idea is Mmm Mmm Good. Well played sir.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Credit ToddtheFox with that one, as you can see here. I thought it was brilliant, and have been waiting anxiously for the shirt….
Is this the right room for an argument?
Some of us might still be waiting for that Oskars the Grouch shirt too… but I understand, the comic is taking up a lot of your time.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 28, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that not posted yet? He is in fact done with that shirt… Least I thought he was.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, there’s a whole batch of new ones coming soon. That one is included.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I got 99 points, but the cup aint won…yet
by Prometheus74 on Sep 29, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Odd .....I swear the following sentence was included in my post
I hope G-Z earn a shirt this season
by Prometheus74 on Sep 29, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, yea, they should put Zherdev on the PK too!
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Sep 28, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I want Nodl to get the look, but I think this is the team that dresses against the Pens. They’ll at least want to look at Carcillo and Shelley’s work before sitting those contracts in the press box. Not all grinding work is done in the defensive zone, after all.
And you’re right about the PK, but I think it’s just going to play out that way.
Well, then we’re stating what we think will happen (you) versus what should happen (me).
Not all grinding work is done in the defensive zone, after all.
Certainly. Carcillo is an agitator who can grind in the offensive zone, Powe can grind in the defensive zone, and Shelley is a fighter who can grind moderately well in both. But I don’t see the point in having Carcillo and Shelley on the same team (so long as Guerin is here), let alone the same line. Their games are too one-dimensional, and sadly, that dimension doesn’t fit on a team that wants to roll three scoring lines. That fourth line should – here’s where I say get rid of both Shelley and Carcillo – have, in an ideal world, Powe – Betts – Laperriere. With Lappy out, it should have Nodl.
Obviously, this team will always have a Shelley or a Carcillo on it, but with three scoring lines, you need to have defensive specialists. A minimum of two (Betts and Powe, if Betts is healthy) works. If Betts isn’t, you need Nodl and Powe.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, actually think Carcillo-Powe-Shelley should get the look first, anyway. I’m not opposed to Nodl, but he won’t factor into the line-up when Betts is ready to go, but the other three will.
I don’t think Carcillo’s game is as one-dimensional as you are painting it, as he was effective for most of the season on the fourth line, switched to a more offensive game at the beginning of the playoffs, and played out the rest of the season hurt. And I simply don’t know enough about Shelley to make a judgment, except that for the money he’s getting, I want to see what he can do on the ice, and that he only fits in our fourth line.
There’s a difference between Carcillo being one-dimensional and a Carcillo – Powe – Shelley line being one-dimensional.
Carcillo was effective on the fourth line because he was told: Betts and Lappy are going to shut down the opposition. You will help them by being smart, and crashing bodies. When you put him with Powe and Shelley, who’s the defensive stalwart? Powe. So you no longer have Carcillo as the compliment, but now Powe is. What do you want out of that line? In other words, who do you put those three on the ice against? What zone do they start in? What is considered a win when the shift is over? How much ice time will they get per game?
The answers to those questions are either unclear (what’s a win? what do you want?) or not an effective use of three forward sports (how much ice time? who do they play against?).
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I want my fourth line to get the puck deep back bodies and wear out the opposing D and hopefully get an offensive faceoff either forcing an icing or getting the puck to the net. I think Carcillo-Powe-Shelly can do that, 5 on 5 as an effective 4th line. Powe can play the PK and against really good PP teams shit Carcillo and play Nodl or work with Carcillo to learn the PK.
So you want four lines controlling the play?
Well damn, I want my team to spend 60 minutes in the offensive zone too, but shit…
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Bruno wants to win all 50 states.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
And he ended up losing the election.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe Jill Taylor lost them the election. Plus, you’re taking away from Congressman Santos’ brilliant campaign run by Josh Lyman…HOW DARE YOU SIR!
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t understand what you want here.
I answered you questions posed.
What do you want out of that line? What zone do they start in? What is considered a win when the shift is over?
Of course I want to control the play at all times. That is the goal of the game control the play that is winning hockey. I know that is not going to happen 60 minutes and good defense is required to win.
But I don’t put a line of the ice with the goal of give the other guys a rest sit back, don’t take a penalty and don’t get scored on.
How about “give the other guys a rest, draw more penalties than you take, and get scored on very little”? I’ll absolutely accept that.
Also, if they aren’t forcing the play in the right direction, they should at least be making it tough for the opponent through the neutral zone.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
All three of you, chris, and Snevik just answered what you want out of every line.
What did you want out of JVR – Giroux – Asham last year? “control the play at all times, give the other guys a rest, draw more penalties than you take, get scored on very little, force the play in the right direction, or at least make it tough for the opponent through the neutral zone.”
What do you want out of Hartnell – Briere – Leino this year? “control the play at all times, give the other guys a rest, draw more penalties than you take, get scored on very little, force the play in the right direction, or at least make it tough for the opponent through the neutral zone.”
What did Team Canada want out of Nash – Crosby – Iginla (if they even played together)? “control the play at all times, give the other guys a rest, draw more penalties than you take, get scored on very little, force the play in the right direction, or at least make it tough for the opponent through the neutral zone.”
You get the point.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But the vital thing that is missing is trying to score a goal on every shift. I don’t want the 4th line to try and do that, just play simple mistake free hockey.
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Right, but that will naturally come if you “control the play at all times… and force the play in the right direction.”
If you wanted to get into a list of things not mentioned, well that’s what I’m alluding to. But the point here is, what everyone wants out of the proposed 4th line is what everyone wants out of every line. It’s a non-answer.
The question is, what do you want specifically out of a Carcillo – Powe – Shelley line that you don’t want out of any of your top-3.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if your answer is contributing two penalty killing forwards then you won’t acheive it from that line. But could you get two penalty killing forwards from any of the other lines either?
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The way the Flyers are set up this year is to have 3 scoring lines. If the fourth line is a “grinder” line, you’re going to be left using your scorers to kill penalties. Yes, Richards will see a lot of PK time, while Carter and Giroux will also likely see a lot of time. But if you only have Darroll Powe on the fourth line, you’re going to have to use at half of your scorers on the PK since you can’t get by with just two PK units. At some point, guys like Hartnell, Guerin, or JVR will have to kill penalties.
Or you could dress three scoring lines and a defensive line, allowing your scorers to score, limit how much time Carter and/or Giroux are killing penalties, and avoid using Hartnell, Guerin, or JVR at all on the PK. Dressing Nodl makes your PK better – keeping those three off the ice – and your PP better – since Carter/Giroux will spend more time there than PK. And it makes you better at 5-on-5 since you now have a fourth line that can be trusted to at least shut down most other team’s second lines or play tough minutes in the defensive zone.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 29, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
The point is that you answered “what do you want out of any line?” You don’t want the same things from a Powe-Betts-Lappy line as you do out of a Hartnell-Briere-Leino line. Of course, you want both lines to spend all their time in the offensive zone, score a goal every shift, and don’t let the puck out of the offensive zone.
But that’s not a realistic expectation out of a Carcillo – Powe – Shelley line. In order to have them maintain possession in the offensive zone, you have to not only choose who you put them out against – you certainly can’t put them out against Crosby, Malkin, or Staal’s lines against Pittsburgh; you can’t put them out against Gaborik or Drury’s lines against the Rangers; you can’t put them out against Zajac, Elisas, or Zubrus’ lines against the Devils – but you have to choose when you put them on the ice.
You want every line
to get the puck deep back bodies and wear out the opposing D and hopefully get an offensive faceoff either forcing an icing or getting the puck to the net.
What do you want from this line. You obviously aren’t going to ask them to play against any team’s top-two lines. You can’t play them against most team’s third lines. Do you want them to go out after a goal to show energy? Do you want them to just hit as many people as possible? Do you want them to clog the neutral zone? Do you want them to play a counter-attack style, keeping 4 guys deep, looking to spring one?
That line is so unbalanced, without direction, without any use outside of 5-on-5 play, and very limited use even at 5-on-5 play. They will basically go out and play fourth line against fourth line, and they’ll likely even lose half of those battles because you don’t know what you’re asking them to do.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You called “their games” one-dimensional, not the line. If by that you mean that Carcillo can only do one thing at any given time, I think there’s a different word for that.
I think you use them against third or fourth lines, and most second lines. A win is 40 seconds of rest for our three scoring lines. Ice time should be 9-12 minutes. The ultimate goal is to hold the GA/60 numbers from last year, which seems insane, except for the fact that Ryan Parent is no longer with this team.
I think either option is acceptable, but given we have these players with these contracts, try this option first.
Not to get all lawyer’y on you, but when I said “Their games are too one-dimensional”, that doesn’t mean black and white, offense or defense. Carcillo isn’t a goal scorer, and he isn’t a defensive specialist. Can he do both of those? Yeah, but he’s too much of a hands-of-stone agitator to play alongside Shelley, who’s even more of a hands-of-stone goon.
Again, I have no problem with Carcillo on the fourth line with Betts/Lappy; Betts/Powe; Powe/Nodl; etc., but if that line already has Shelley, you have two guys who, while NHL players, they aren’t especially good at any one aspect of hockey (not counting fighting). And if you’re going with 9 scorers, it doesn’t make sense to only have 1 defensive specialist.
And in order to get 40 seconds of rest for our three scoring lines, who starts in the defensive zone against Crosby, Ovechkin, Gaborik, etc.? Certainly not Carcillo and Shelley. So then you are wasting an offensive zone start on the fourth line because you have to hide them away from the defensive zone. That’s not a win.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You never have to apologize about lawyerly nit-picking, because I love it, BUT from the way you are describing things, you meant to say “their games are too similiar.” Admitting Carcillo can play offense, defense, and be a pest showcases at least three of his dimensions, even if they are not unique or exceptional roles.
I wouldn’t start Powe-Betts-Lappy in the defensive zone against Crosby. That has “Richards line” written all over it. But yes: you can’t throw your fourth line on a defensive draw in your opponent’s rink blind. I’d hazard to say it probably it’s a good idea, anyway.
I don’t disagree with your first paragraph, but I’ll go down swinging saying I meant their games are too one-dimensional, and that is not incorrect. While Carcillo can play offense, defense, and be a best doesn’t mean he’s at least three-dimensional, just like saying he’s “too one-dimensional” doesn’t mean he only has one dimension to his game.
Instead, while Carcillo can score some and play some defense, that doesn’t mean he’s like Claude Giroux, who does both well.
Maybe we can compromise and say “their games are too similarly one-dimensional”? Because you’re right in saying that my problem isn’t Carcillo’s supposed one-dimensionality, it’s that both he AND Shelley are similarly one-dimensional.
And I just realized, I originally said:
There’s a difference between Carcillo being one-dimensional and a Carcillo – Powe – Shelley line being one-dimensional.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
You said that in response to my objection, and while you probably won’t convince me on Carcillo’s game (certainly, his most effective role is a pest, but he can play effective defense and an effective role on an offensive line), I’ll agree the statement you quoted.
That’s fine. I’m not really concerned with arguing Carcillo’s game, since I do agree that he’s easily adaptable from Richards’ line to Betts’ line, it’s that he’s asked to do the same thing no matter where he plays.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Otherwise, the team will have to use Richards, Giroux, Powe, and Carter to kill penalties.
Remember when Richie and Carter were the best PK’ers in the NHL two years ago, with Hartnell, Powe, and Upshall as the other guys? I like the idea of giving Richie and Carts less playing time, but they also bring a different edge to the PK, where teams played more conservative because we scored so many shorties. I wouldnt mind that again.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
In 08-09, the Flyers had Carter, Richards, Gagne, and Knuble all get more than 2 minutes of PK time a game. They were the top four in PK time per game, with Metropolit coming in 5th. And that worked so well, that the team decided they didn’t want to do that any more. Hence Betts and Laperriere being brought in.
He remembers and addressed it. The problem is, you are taking your most skilled players and burning them out having them play the toughest minutes in the game.
Is this the right room for an argument?
but we were #6 in 08-09, and #11 last year, and dropped off in about 10ish goals. They took away a major strength last season, and Richards averages only 43 seconds less ice time per game anyway. So you reduce scoring, reduce PK%, and increase # shots taken on the PK to save your best play less the 1 min. per game. I understand what Lappy and Betts bring, but I still think Richie is the best PK’er in the NHL, and when you dont play him, then you hurt the team more.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
Richie is the best PK’er in the NHL, and when you dont play him, then you hurt the team more.
That’s just not true. The team had the exact same PK success rate. Richards ice time dropped by 1:20 per game this year, which was 43 minutes less over the season. He scored exactly 1 fewer goal than the year before. So: you save your best players by giving them less ice time in the regular season, but less than 2 games worth; Richards’ scores the same amount of goals; the team’s PK is just as successful; your goal scorers spend more time in scoring situations; and it only costs you 10 goals?
I don’t see anything wrong with that at all. Oh, and Richards went from 7 SH goals to 2, but from 8 PP goals to 13. So, Richards’ special teams play resulted in the exact same number of goals.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Read what Geoff wrote below, he said it better than I could.
Basically, if Richards were bionic, and didn’t play a style of game that takes a major toll on his body, then I would agree with you. Your argument is based on the fact that if he plays those minutes on the PK he could still play his increased minutes at ES and on the PP that he played last year. To take your argument further, why not just play Richards the entire game? B/c physically he can’t. And being able to take away a minute per game of tough ice time to put him at ES or PP situations, you are more likely to get goals. Short handed goals aren’t something any team in the league counts on, and that should not be a plan to winning. I’m not saying don’t play Richards on the PK, but rather save his legs for a significant portion of it so he can’t help you in other areas.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Do we have concrete evidence that Richards is, in fact, NOT bionic?
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by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Shoulder surgery…though I guess they could have replaced them with bionic shoulders…
Is this the right room for an argument?
They could have just gone in and fixed some servos. I’m not entirely certain that Richards wasn’t built by SkyNet and sent back through time with the soul purpose of destroying opponents.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember when Richie and Carter were the best PK’ers in the NHL two years ago, with Hartnell, Powe, and Upshall as the other guys?
A) It was Richie and Carter, with Gagne, Knuble, and Metropolit as the other guys; B) Gagne was a better PKer than Carter that year (both fewer goals against and more goals for); C) The Flyers as a team scored 16 shorthanded goals. This year, they scored 6. Their PK% stayed the same, so you’re really looking at a loss of 10 goals; D) Are those 10 goals (Carter and Richards went from 11 combined SH goals to 3 SH goals) worth wasting your best offensive players on defense?
Ten goals. That’s less than what Dan Carcillo scored last year. Instead, the Flyers were able to take Richards and use him at ES or PP situations 89% of the time instead of 85% of the time. Carter went from 85% to 91% of the time. That’s a not-inconsequential jump, which is where you want Jeff Carter – at even or better strength.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Lost in all this Lappy being out business is that the Flyers may be starting the season without 3 of their top 4 PK forwards from last season — Betts (shoulder), Lappy (concussion) and Gagne (trade).
If Betts isn’t ready for the first game, and the fourth line is Carcillo-Powe-Shelley, then that pretty much guarantees a forward PK contingent of Powe, Richards, Giroux and Carter. Really, no one else on the team has PK experience or talent. Hartnell and Guerin would be the most likely to see time as the 5th forward.
If Betts is healthy and that 4th line is Powe-Betts-INSERT-A-GOON, then your PK forwards become Betts, Powe, Richards, Giroux, Carter.
Either way, it looks like Richards and Giroux will be your 2nd group of forwards on the PK. And since they’ll also be getting 1st unit PP time, we’re looking at another year of riding Richards — and this year Giroux as well — into the ground by the time the post-season starts.
That is, unless the team pulls a wildcard and puts Nodl in the lineup. Either that or I am missing some PK-talented forward on the roster.
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by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Sep 28, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That is a much more concise statement of everything I’ve been saying.
Well done.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait – Hartnell … on the penalty kill? Isn’t he usually in the box himself by then?
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by MaximumTalbot on Sep 28, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
If he knew it that early, why was Lappy allowed to play in the first pre-season game…during which he was shoving Leblond in a scrum?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Maybe he wanted to test it out, and got shaken up significantly? They had to know something. We were all shocked that he played again last season after his immediate comments about family, etc.
Also, Sakura posetd while I was replying with the other thing I would say. It might not be that he feels worse, but that it’s been months and he doesn’t feel better. Homer could have known about the headaches and handcuffed his roster for this very scenario.
Regardless of what you and Sakura wrote there are still two very disappointing possibilities:
1) Homer knew, and made the decisions regarding the roster as insurance, but still let Lappy play in preseason without testing it sufficiently before hand. Regardless of how hard PCS is to diagnose, there has to be some testing before a player puts himself in that position. Was it ever done, and when?
2) Homer didn’t realize it was still a problem, and made those moves b/c he is, well, Homer.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I think it’s the first one. I think people (Homer, Lavy, training staff) sort of knew that Lappy didn’t feel as great as he said in the playoffs, and turned a blind eye. I think his headaches, most likely, were widely known during the offseason and it explains why we signed (will sign, I guess) 14 NHL forwards. It would certainly be in-step with this organization, and frankly, most American sports franchises (see: Bradley, Stewart).
In which case there isn’t much of an excuse, knowing the kind of player Lappy is, to play him in a preseason game like that.
Is this the right room for an argument?
That statement is pretty accusatory without any evidence. To just assume on a feeling this whole Lappy thing was a some part of conspiracy between the Flyers Front Office, Medical Staff and “independent” third party doctors.
Diagnosis of most medical problems comes down to the patient. If I don’t tell the doctors that I have some symptoms they aren’t going to be able to help. Especially post concussion symptoms that is on the player. The MRI results were cleared. They weren’t going to let him play until that was the case. After that post concussions symptoms have to be reported by the player you can’t scan for headaches or anything beyond the required baseline tests given for reaction time and dizziness. If a player passes those there is nothing else the doctors can do.
Quotes from Seravalli:
Holmgren, who said he "kind of had a clue" as to how Laperriere was feeling, said Laperriere was not "completely honest" with the Flyers medical staff as to his condition before returning to the ice in the playoffs. Holmgren said “before he played last year, the spot didn’t go away but the bleeding had stopped.”
So the TEAM knew that Laperriere still had a spot on his brain. Holmgren “kind of” knew Laperriere was lying to them. None of Laperriere, Holmgren, or the team thought that this guy, who has a spot on his brain, who they suspect is lying to them, and they kind of know is dealing with PCS should be held out of the lineup.
Does blame deserve to be spread all around? Yeah, but those quotes tell me that a) Laperriere is who we all thought he was – a guy who wants to play no matter what; b) He’ll play at less than 100%; c) He’ll play with little regard for his own future; d) The Flyers are perfectly fine letting a guy who has a spot on his brain play hockey; and e) Holmgren is perfectly fine ignoring his suspicions and assumptions that a guy is seriously injured.
If a player passes those there is nothing else the doctors can do.
Not that I’m a medical expert, but I seriously question a test that considers a spot on the brain “passing”, but even still, if the doctors can’t do anything, the team certainly can. It’s not entirely on the player, especially since…
The MRI results were cleared. They weren’t going to let him play until that was the case.
the MRI results weren’t clean.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t hear the transcript or know all the details thanks for bringing them to light.
However last time I checked Lappy was 39 years old. He is a man and can make his own decisions. The Flyers respect their players decisions. They didn’t force him to play that is another issue all together.
Like the coach in Varsity Blues. They never forced him do anything.
They allow the players to make the choice the other way too.
They also never pressured Primeau to come back and keep him on the payroll for as long as they could never forced him to retire and gave him a job afterwards as well.
They never forced Gagne back for his issues either let him make the call and go seek out whatever treatment he wanted like the platelet injections and take as long as he wanted.
Same thing with LeClair and his back injuries.
That has been their stance since when it comes to their players. The organization is not responsible for this.
The NHL is not even the body to do this. It is the NHLPA they are the ones that has to help the players that belong to their union and fight on their be-half. Along with the players agent or family or whatever.
Lappy is 39 years old he knew his career was winding down and knew to consequences and the risks and ultimately made that decision. I think Holmgren should have denied that Lappy that right to make up his own mind.
That is fine but that is not how the Flyers work. They aren’t going force you to play nor are they going to force you not to play they leave it up to you. And I think most players who all speak so highly of the organization like Primeau prefer it that way.
I am also not saying they were also like this.
I think they learned a lot from the Lindros situation where there were probably more forceful in rushing him back into the lineup.
Lappy is 36.
The general opinion around here seems to say there’s plenty of blame to go around for the players (in this case, Lappy), the organization, the NHLPA, and the league. It’s in everyone’s best interest to not leave these guys with scrambled eggs.
If I was Lappy I would have wanted to play give it one last shot.
As much younger Gagne I would have decided not to play think of my career as long haul.
But I agree it is a lot easier if there is something concrete that protects the players health.
Homer as a former player is a real tough spot to tell another player NO.
Right. I have no qualms with that at all.
It really is a philosophical issue, since my only response would be: Guys like Lappy aren’t going to sit out if they can skate. Should he? Certainly, but like Snevik says, there needs to be accountability between the NHL, the teams, the doctors, the players, and the NHLPA to sit down and say, “These guys should not step onto the ice.” Someone needs to step in and tell Lappy he isn’t playing.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Sep 28, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Gagne being allowed to seek treatment, I’ll point to the prolotherapy he got for his concussions instead of the blood spinning from the groin issues… did anybody else get the urge to send Lappy over to the doc who helped Gags with his concussions? Even if it’s more about Lappy’s quality of life as opposed to an imminent NHL return, he’s out indefinitely anyway, I’d certainly feel better to hear about Lappy giving it a try.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 28, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not a bad idea. I mean it helped Gagne and he hasn’t had any concussion issues since that, so maybe Lappy can do it and be in shape for later this season perhaps.
What are the rules for eligibility for the playoffs? If he is on LTIR to start the year is there a minimum amount of games he needs to play in the regular season to play in the post-season or is that moot since he has a contract?
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by Lindbergh 31 on Sep 28, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not clear on the details
And I’m on your side, if Lappy had come to any long-term harm it would have been completely not worth it and Homer should’ve had to answer some questions.
But I don’t think the medical side of the situation is as simple as looking at an MRI and looking for anything that indicates abnormality. By memory Lappy had a brain contusion – which basically means localized bruising of the brain. This can be accompanied by haemorrhage or bleeding. The problem with bleeding is that the skull is a rigid structure, and leakage of fluid in the skull can increase the intracranial pressure such that the pressure causes brain damage. So if the pressure in the skull is normal and bleeding has stopped, the immediate danger has essentially gone away.
Again I’m not 100% on the details but this is a line of reasoning that could have been taken.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Sep 28, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
So if the pressure in the skull is normal and bleeding has stopped, the immediate danger has essentially gone away.
I feel that this leaves out the essential detail that something as simple as strenuous activity too soon after the injury could potentially restart the bleeding… I don’t think the immediate danger is essentially gone until there’s been a little more time involved. But as someone who suffers from the effects of head injuries, I’m admittedly too sensitive on the issue.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 28, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, was thinking the same thing.
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by Travis Hughes on Sep 28, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Just an educated guess guys....
But here’s what I think the lines are going to look like in Pittsburgh next week:
JVR-Carter-Zherdev
Leino-Briere-Hartnell
Guerin-Richards-Giroux
Carcillo/Shelley-Betts-Powe
extra: Shelley/Carcillo, Nodl
That said, I’m not 100 percent convinced Guerin makes the team. I know that sounds crazy, but the Flyers brass quietly hasn’t been real impressed. He’s been O.K., but they’d rather he be a lot more than o.k. if they are going to keep him over some younger legs.
We keep hearing about Nodl, Holmstrom and Testwuide, and I think there’s a belief that one of them still has a very real shot of making the team.
While I still believe Guerin makes it, he by no means has a job locked up right now. That opinion has changed over the past couple weeks, because I felt he was a virtual lock at the beginning,
These last four games will be telling.
by Anthony SanFilippo on Sep 28, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s been O.K., but they’d rather he be a lot more than o.k. if they are going to keep him over some younger legs.
I like this approach, as much as people like Guerin’s career, and what he brings in the locker room, I haven’t been overly impressed by his play in the preseason. I’m much more comforted by the thought of him actually really having to earn, than all the talk of him being a lock on the roster.
Is this the right room for an argument?
The most impressive thing he’s done is probably the SO goal against TOR.
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by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on, Nodl!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Can/would Guerin be signed to a two-way contract?
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Remembering a two-way contract is only to do with salary, not to do with your ability to send them up and down without putting them through waivers, I don’t really see the point of us signing him to a two-way contract
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Sep 28, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Can he be? Yes. Is it going to happen? I doubt it. PursuitOfLappyness already nailed the waiver issue, and there’s no reason to do so unless they assume he’s going to be in Adirondack most of the time.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 28, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
To read that the Flyers brass has not been real impressed is actually quite surprising. It seems like they have put him in roles and situations that signified he is definitely making the team. If there is any way both Guerin and Nodl could make the team, I would be really satisfied
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This really sucks.
But seriously, I hope Lappy gets back on the ice this year. He’s such a great guy. It’s a shame for Leights, but we’ve got BOOSH and a better defense in front of him. Give a guy confidence and he can do really well. =)
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I agree, it’s making me laugh but at the same time vomit.
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by Lindbergh 31 on Sep 28, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Im happy to see some photoshop talent amongst our ranks!
by Prometheus74 on Sep 29, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate to say it...
But the only area these injuries really hurt us is on the PK.
I was interested to see if Leighton could take advantage of a summer working with Reese to continue his improvement, but in terms of true talent, the difference between Leights and Boucher is negligible. It will also give us a chance to to begin to properly evaluate Backlund as an NHL goalie, so long as he’s recovered.
As for Lappy, I hate losing his PK ability and his competitive fire, but the 4th line of Carcillo-Betts-Powe with Shelley playing depending on the matchup is really fine. Plus, since I’m assuming Lappy will be placed on LTIR, this gives the team more than enough cap space to sign Guerin.
I absolutely respect Lappy for his decision to play in the finals, but I just have to beliave that this may end his career.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
Details of Laperriere news are terrible, he could be done.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
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Two warriors
Interesting that both Lappy and Marc Savard came back to play for the playoffs and are on the shelf at the beginning of they year. These guys love hockey so much – I suspect many players for years were risking their lives playing after concussions. Sure hope Gags is really recovered even as he moves on form the Flyers.
by Fr. Orange and Black on Sep 28, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I am convinced Gags is fully recovered. Because, unlike Lappy or Savard, he didn’t come back to play in the playoffs. Even if he technically could at that time. People will mostly say it shows Lappy and Savard had hearts and dedication to the game, but I don’t see it as too clever, to be honest. I think what Simon did was the better solution.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Gagne
Good point he was playing before that and was out of the lineup for other reasons. Just in general I was thinking about whether these guys really do EVER recover or because the symptoms apparently can appear, disappear, reappear etc they really seem ok but in fact are not. Hats off to all of them. I like all the major sports but I really respect the hockey players – I hope the rising salaries don’t tarnish that.
by Fr. Orange and Black on Sep 28, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Since 2008, he never was out of the lineup because of concussion issues (knocks on wood).
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
If all you knew how to do was play hockey and you had an injury like that in the middle/end of your career, what would you do? It may not be clever, but if I were in their position I would be stubborn and try to push through it. Think of it like a construction worker with a bad back.
Flyers fan since 1983. I missed the good stuff.
I’m not calling Lappy out for what he did. It was his own decision. But now he has to face the consequences of it.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
I hope he isn’t done. We really don’t know but the talk of him having a spot on his brain and just that nasty puck to his face that caused all of this makes me think it could definitely be pretty bad. I hope it’s not career ending for him or even season ending. I say let him heal for the entire year and if he feels good enough let him have a shot at the cup. If he isn’t healed then I don’t know, but I’m sure he’ll try to play any way he can since he’s a warrior and is definitely deserving of the NHL’s Toughest Guy award or whatever the name of what he won is.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Sep 28, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It was an amazing career Lappy.
Why he lied about the symptoms?
He had a feeling this was going to be the end of his career, and playing in the playoffs one last time is how you end a career. I’m not saying his choices were smart or stupid, but I see why he did what he did. So long Lappy, it’s been real
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
~Thomas Jefferson
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 28, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions
Does this open a spot for Nodl?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions
Question
I know there are people here that know the CBA very well, so this is for you.
If Lappy is forced to retire, what exactly do the Flyers have to do in order to get his contract off the cap? It is a 35+ deal, but I vaguely remember there being a clause regarding players who are legitimately incapable of playing hockey which allows the team to get out from under the cap hit.
LTIR should be all that is needed. He is only contracted thru this season (pretty sure).
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
Thanks, I stand corrected. Either way when on LTIR you do not count against the cap (see Rathje, Mike).
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
Well, you do count against the cap, but the team is allowed to go over the cap by that amount.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Having him on LTIR does pose other sanctions with the salary cap that are put in place to keep people from keeping a high priced player. I forget exactly what it is, but I remember it is confusing. Because of this and the fact that Mike Rathji was on LTIR was the reason they couldn’t bring Briere back before they did and the call up counting agianst the cap or something … really confusing like I said.
If someone knows the exact ruling lemme know, but I think I might be better to let him retire and take the cap hit
But will the NHL have to do a private test of Lappy, to ensure that this isn’t cap circumvention on the part of the Flyers? Particularly if we just dump him on LTIR for the next two seasons.
I obviously don’t think he’s lying. But it would be a convenient way to avoid the 35+ contract status.
I believe you are evaluated by NHL doctors and they make the decision whether the player’s condition is worth putting him on the LTIR or not.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Ok, thanks. I’d assume with all the press regarding concussions in sports, the NHL wouldn’t stop a player with PCS from being put on LTIR, but it’s something we may have to watch for.
My worry was the the 35+ nature of his contract would complicate things, as Rathje wasn’t under that distinction when we hid him on LTIR.
Unfortunately, a bulging (herniated) disc can take a lot longer than 4 weeks to heal. I had this problem a couple of years ago, and even with physical therapy and steroid injections at the vertebrae, it took many months to heal. The problem is that the herniated disc pushes on the nerve in the spine that runs right down the leg and into the foot. It causes numbness and weakness in the the leg and foot, just like what Leights is experiencing.
Sarauj, Latvija!
Wait, are you saying the Flyers are underscoring the length of time?? That’s blasphemous! There is no evidence – NONE – to suggest the Flyers don’t mean 4 weeks when they say 4 weeks.
You have evidence this has happened before? Naaaaaaah, I don’t believe you.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
WARNING GEEK REFERENCE
The Flyers management are like Scotty from Star Trek no matter what the problem is it only takes 2-4 weeks. Warp Drive down 2 weeks, Necrotic Hip Disorder 4 weeks. It is the default answer.
Haha kudos for the Star Trek reference!!!
Only difference is Scotty is a true miracle worker and can get it fixed in that time. Flyers management, when a player comes back in their time frame he’s usually not 100% yet.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Sep 28, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No he wasn’t … he admitted in TNG during one of his guest episodes that he would say something would take days that would only take hours so it would look like he was working miracle. I use that strategy at work all the time:
“Sure boss that will probably take about 5 hours” and I finish what he asked me to do over the course of the phone call he asks me to do it in.
thats every team though. In every sport. Elsbery for the red sox has been “day-to-day” since the 2nd week of baseball(yes, hes only played like 20 games and hasnt hit the DL). im sure that this means he’ll be side-lined for 4 weeks, another week of rehab, and a week in the AHL for rehab starts.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
thats every team though. In every sport.
But it’s not every injury.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Until hockey gambling gets as big as football, injury disclosure will remain very suspect across the board.
That’s probably true.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 28, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah that was my first thought when I read that it was a bulging disk and thought “really? 4 weeks?” That’s why I said before that it would be at least 1-2 more months before he is really back or they’ll rush him back.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Sep 28, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Any chance the Flyers are on the phone with Florida? A guy can dream, can’t he?
I love the Flyers so much I even went to Bobby Clarke Day Camp.
Why would they?
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
For Vokoun. I know it can’t/won’t/shouldn’t/couldn’t happen, but I’m so uncomfortable with Bob starting in the NHL this year. I just don’t see Leighton back any time soon.
I love the Flyers so much I even went to Bobby Clarke Day Camp.
by billy_pilgrim on Sep 28, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, well played.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 28, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed well played.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Sep 28, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2010-11 Flyers: Bigger, Stronger, Healthier Busteder
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

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