Monday Morning Fly By: Lots of Prospect Updates
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 10, 2011 8:29 AM EST
in Morning Fly By
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PrintToday's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Peter Laviolette sees his fantasy come true as he will coach in the All-Star game: [delcotimes.com]
- Despite success, the Flyers may not have may All-Stars: [NHL.com]
- Though Danny Briere appears to be the one most likely to make it: [Philly Sports Daily]
- Lots of praise to James van Riemsdyk over the weekend, and most of it goes to his improved skating: [delcotimes.com] [CSNPhilly]
- Jakub Kovar recorded 23 saves for his 3rd shutout of the season on Sunday: [euroflyers]
- Andrei Popov recorded an assist on Friday: [euroflyers] and followed it up with his 8th goal of the year later in the weekend: [euroflyers]
- Similar to SanFilippo's story last week comes another story on Brian Boucher and his long journey back to the NHL: [Daily News]
- Mid-term grades for the Flyers: [In The Room]
- Aggregated Power Rankings see Vancouver take the top spot: [From The Rink]
- An interesting look at the Flyers trading history, in that they like to acquire players taken with the draft picks they traded: [Bleacher Report]
- Which current Flyers have scored the most career goals against the Flyers: [Forsythe and the Flyers]
- Another installment of Stefan Legein making fun of Danny Syvret: "Don't worry dave, drew doughty can't touch your ahl numbers @DannySyvret" [stefanlegein]
- At the half-way point, Paul Holmgren falls to GM of the Year Runner-up, but they added an interesting sentence: "Holmgren also deserves credit for signing Nikolay Zherdev as a free agent last summer." [NHL.com]
- Another installment of NHL Equivalencies of all players drafted in recent years. In 2010, Brendan Ranford shines: [The Copper & Blue]
- And in the 2009 edition, Eric Wellwood sees himself behind such highly-touted prospects as Tye McGinn and Dave Labrecque (sarcasm) [The Copper & Blue]
- The Arizona shooting tragically included former-Phillies' Manager Dallas Green's granddaughter: [CSNPhilly] [Philly Sports Daily] [Phillies Nation] [The700Level.com] [The Good Phight]
- Lastly, for you Sami Kapanen fans: He received a pretty awesome painting valued at $20,000 [euroflyers] and you can zoom in and check out the details: [euroflyers]
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I was already all messed up over that little girl getting killed in that shooting, but finding out it was Dallas Green’s granddaughter just completely broke my heart.
In happier news, that Sami Kap painting is insane! There are so many details I know I don’t have time to find them all before I go to work, but so far my favorite touch is the “Save the Whalers!” graffiti. But there’s so many little things I’ve found, from the sign to buy tickets for the 1995 World Championships to the details in the pile of rubble (one thing hidden in there contains the Flyers 3-D 3rd jersey logo), the numbers hidden all over the painting all have meanings, for example those painted on the broken down station wagon on the right represent his NHL career point and goal totals. I could look at that thing for hours.
I’m curious to see what others can find that I missed, so I’m going to throw up a list of things I found in the painting so far that I didn’t already mention; then maybe you guys will spot things you didn’t notice or you’ll notice things I didn’t. I skipped the ones that I think are big obvious details, like the buildings and his jersey number. Anyway, here goes:
- KalPa logo on the breast plate of the pads he’s wearing
- Graffiti on the concrete base of the bridge are the names of his wife and 4 children
- Also on bridge piling over his right shoulder are the numbers 92 + 144, his goal and point totals in the SM-liiga
- To the left of those numbers are the numbers 13.12.95, the date of his first NHL game
- Hanging from the base of the bridge (top left of painting) is a banner with a lion, that has an olympic logo at the top with the years 1994, 1998 and at the bottom WC with the years 2001, 1998, 1995, 1991; these represent all the medals he won in international competition
- Fallen sign in the middle of the painting has logo of both NHL all star games he appeared in (2000 & 2002), the numbers are his times from winning the fastest skater competition each year
- 14.06.73 is on the top of the crumbling building immediately to the right of Libery One, that’s his birthday
- His draft position (87th overall 1995, 4th round) is on the puck in the forefront of the image
- In the pile of rubble on the right are the numbers 831 and 294, those represent his total number of games played in the NHL and SM-liiga respectively
- The burning trash can (bottom center) has three hats next to it and Cujo written on the side; Sami had 3 career hat tricks, all of which were against goalie Curtis Joseph
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 10, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Sami had 3 career hat tricks, all of which were against goalie Curtis Joseph
That’s an interesting stat. Go figure.
What’s the Czech something sign that’s on the ground by the bombed out car? If you follow the line of his shot you’ll see it.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Also, the bird has to mean something, no?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
After figuring out I could zoom, it’s a Czech republic sign. Did Finland beat them in the Olympics?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t figure that Czech republic sign or the bird out at all. I had to look most of the things up; but the numbers were easy to figure out and I recognized his wife and one of the daughter’s names, so figuring out that the other 3 names were his other 3 children wasn’t that difficult. The things I couldn’t gather from context clues are still a blank.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 10, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
Can someone link the actual image?
I keep getting Twitter’s fail whale.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Where’s the logo? I can’t seem to find it.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I can’t see much of what she lists. It just looks black and fuzzy to me when I zoom. Must be my work provided laptop. ;-P
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Are you guys all going by the image linked in the first twitter message? Because the second link (in the second twitter message) has a plug in that lets you zoom in really far. Direct link is here: http://www.aliasstudiot.fi/kap/
Does the plug-in only work for me?
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 10, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, now I can see the plug-in—wasn’t working before.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Yeah I would never have been able to find those details without the plug in, they’re really really small.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 11, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
The Flyers logo is really hard to spot because there’s no contrast on it and you have to zoom in pretty far… I’ll give you a road map.
In the bottom right section, there’s a general pile of rubbish. Start in the middle of the frame, and find the 1995 world championships sign. From the top right corner of the sign (where the word ‘today’ is), zoom in pretty much all the way and pan to the right. You’ll see 2 beams/signs that have his games played totals (831 and 294). Immediately to the right of the 831 is a very very hard to see sign with the Flyers 3D alternate logo. I’m amazed now that I found it so easily before… I guess it was luck.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 10, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like someone got to it, because now the logo looks like it’s in the witness protection program. Just a big, old blur. Thanks, NHL! (unless it’s just my computer)
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Power Rankings
I’m not about to get upset about Power Rankings.But I do like to know how a team is seen by people. The flyers are 9th in the NHL by TSN. What are they seeing that I’m not? Flyers have a great record, great goal differential, amazing forward and defense depth. I’d be curious to see where they think the Flyers deficiencies are.
The guys at TSN probably have been watching the flyers play.
by bfrank27 on Jan 10, 2011 9:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If you read the summary at the top of the rankings closely (AKA the explanation is easy to miss) or go to the TSN rankings page (where I believe they have a pretty good explanation as well), you’ll be able to note that TSN uses a mathematical calculation method rather than an observational method. That’s why they’re usually out of whack with what you might have been seeing.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
yes but what exactly aren’t they seeing? the fact that the flyers are 10-1-1 against divisional opponents this year, have the best record in the east, same lineup basically the entire year? I mean look at the comments they leave for teams ranked ahead of them.
the kings #8th
Four straight losses, during which they allowed 18 goals, is a nasty stretch for a team that had been playing superb defensively for the last month or so.
Thrashers #5
Ondrej Pavelec continues to carry the Thrashers – in their two wins last week, the Thrashers allowed 94 shots on goal.
How are these positive quotes while the Flyers are ranked behind them?
Anyone else having issues with new comments not being yellow?
No matter what SBN site I go to all comments look the same, no way to differentiate between new and old unless I sit on the thread.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Yep, big problem, it’s giving me a headache.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Good, then it’s not just me.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Haha fixed
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
It works when I’m in the thread and somebody posts at the same time, but not when you look at the main page or open a different article. I reported it already, though.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 10, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
I think the most disheartening thing about that “current Flyers who have scored the most goals against the Flyers” is Jody Shelly at 2. Especially considering those two games in which he scored cost us playoff positioning.
I know that God is in the Radio.
Yeah, that is frustrating
I really think that team could’ve made a deep run if they’d gotten a better seed.
Especially considering those two games in which he scored cost us playoff positioning.
Not true. The Flyers finished with 88 points. They only dropped two points against the Rangers. The sixth-seeded Bruins finished with 91 points.
It is slightly annoying that Jody Shelley made us rely on a skills competition, but mostly, I share HuckNZ’s sarcastic ambivalence.
All-star game
Can someone clarify this for me? Isn’t our team guaranteed one player in the All Star game? Several of the articles above are saying it is possible no one from the team will be chosen.
Yeah I Really don’t understand the format. Fans voted for starters, but they aren’t a team, just the first 6 guys in the All-Star draft pool? Then more players are added and somehow named captains, who will pick players until 2 teams are created? The coaches of the first place team of each conference team up and coach against the defending champ coach and his assistants?
What was the point of the fan voting? There was probably a lot of apathy this year from those who’ve watched hockey for more than the last 4 years.
From Parts Unknown...
Currently behind enemy lines, plotting to blow up an Igloo.
by Dos Furioso on Jan 10, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Personally the best thing in this year’s format is that fan voting didn’t count as much, only selecting 6 players as opposed to 12.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I actually miss the old days of paper ballots being handed out at games for All-Star voting. Doing it online makes sense given today’s technology, but ballot-stuffing clearly makes the result meaningless.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I agree, which is why I am a fan of only voting in 6 players now given how easy it is to stuff ballots.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Man, I remember being at games as a kid and being handed those paper ballots…sitting in my seat at the Spectrum, filling it out during intermission. I felt like it was a huge responsibility and I had to choose carefully!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Haha yeah it was kind of neat, and I did take it far more seriously.
Now you have these ridiculous (sorry Ben) vote for the Wolf (or other undeserving player) campaigns. You wonder if you don’t have silly things like those, maybe you wouldn’t have only 2 teams represented in the 6 fan voted players.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Yeah I was wondering that too. For at least the last decade, each team has been guaranteed at least one all star (hence four-time all-star Ziggy Palffy), and I don’t think they would change it now.
That said, even if they do it’s tough to think that no Flyers will get on. I think the article is more trying to say that the team is excellent, but without superstars. Which is fine by me.
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Jan 10, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
MEZ
Andrej Meszaros – A – Holmgren’s best move of the offseason. The guy has been a superb, all-around defenseman.
Between this statement from Anthony SanFan, the death of the Meszaros grading scale, and our improved current cap situation can we call the much debated and criticized aquistion of Andrej Meszaros a huge success.
I can agree with this statement.
however,
Jody Shelley – B- – Has played his role well… and a great guy in the locker room.
sarcasm?
can we call the much debated and criticized acquistion of Andrej Meszaros a huge success.
That would kinda miss the point of doing the Mesz grading scale in the first place. But if all you want is for everyone to admit he’s looked good, I don’t believe you’ll find much resistance.
I understand that but at this point in the season 1/2 way through. I feel Mez and proven himself worthy of the second pick and 4 million dollar cap hit and no longer needs a daily metric applied to his play.
You’re also missing the point of the anger over the acquisition: It was never that Meszaros was bad or that he wouldn’t be a huge upgrade. The anger was never dependent upon his play.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 10, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
U"WERE"MAD!
But in all, I was never that mad. I mean, Its one thing to have cap room, and its another to have $4 of it sitting there when it could go to a good player.
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
haha I know, but the Flyers also have a much better team wrapped in all that cap. Look at NJ, they are just as bad as us and can barley play a full roster.
Serious question. When Walker returns, how do we fit him under the cap? Or will he stay on LTIR all year?
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
Unless I greatly misunderstood, the cap article that was posted after Leighton went to the minors showed that Walker already fits under the cap.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
You are correct.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 10, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Er, yes. Or rather, it would very difficult for Meszaros to play well enough to offset the mismanagement of resources/cost-value/VORP/whatever related to that acquisition.
I don’t know the terminology to use, because I haven’t finished my coffee yet. But, a player can play well enough to erase a terrible decision.
The grading is still alive, I was just in Belgium.
He is still overpaid for a 3rd pairing Dman, and you don’t know what that extra salary could have been used for. And like I said before, and agreed with you before, you won’t find out his true value until the next 2 seasons have played out, b/c that’s where his potential value lies. All he has done this season is dominant inferior talent at a $4mil cap hit.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
But yes he has been good, no one will say he hasn’t. But that’s different than being upset over the acquisition.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
but isn’t the grading based on his play? Sure his 4M contract would suck a lot more if he was playing terribly but he’s not. If anything Nik Z’s contract is way worse because he barely plays (for some reason).
Plus the flyers aren’t using their Dmen in a typical fashion. Mez is only 12 seconds behind Coburn in TOI/G. Pronger leads the Flyers D with 22:20 TOI/G which is 48th in the league when sorted. It seems, with the exception of O’Donnell (16:38 TOI/G) the other 5 Dmen are basically playing around 20 minutes a game. Is it wrong to spend a little more for 3 solid defensive lines or is it just another school of thought?
You are kind of missing my point he is a 3rd pairing defender base on the competition he is facing, there were other options out there that may have produced the same results for less money in that situation.
As far as grading goes:
Things that lower his grade for me is the fact that he is facing the 5th worse, out of the 7 Flyers Dman, competition (Qual Comp) and players who control the play (Corsi QoC). He is also benefiting from being on the ice for the best shooting % out of all the Flyers Dmen at even strength, while also benefiting from getting the best Save % at ES of any of the Dmen. So Meszaros is performing great against weak competition while benefitting from a huge amount of luck.
Is Meszaros playing well, yes, is he an A, I don’t think so b/c of the situations he plays in and his contract. Some people choose to factor that in, others don’t. I guess you can’t control who your competition is or you salary, so from that aspect an A- to me (not producing on the PP), but with all things considered, I think he has been a B (if he did more on the PP he’d be a B+/A-.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I should say, when I do the Meszaros game by game grading, I don’t factor in anything, just his play (no salary or advanced stats tuff at all).
I guess I expect guys making $4mil to be facing better competition, but I probably shouldn’t hold that against grading Meszaros as the player…so let’s say B+ then from me for the player. But when I do the end of the year grading on the polls on this site I factor salary in to it b/c it’s about looking at the value of the player.
So you are right, just looking at the player, I probably shouldn’t factor in the contract for grading. But my point to Chris was that why I was upset about Meszaros never had to do with his play on the ice, it was his contract versus team need. And that the value of the signing can’t be realized until his role on this team is increased as we move in to the future, b/c he isn’t being put in a position to earn $4mil per year (except on the PP) this season.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
It’s not just how he plays versus his contract, it’s how well he plays versus his contract, and what we gave up in the trade, and what we could have got based on market value, and whether that maximize the value of the money we can pay out under the cap based on our needs.
I expect Don/Geoff would have a fundamental problem with paying five guys who play the same position this kind of money. I don’t necessarily agree, but his play—as far as variables in this equation goes—can’t ever singularly justify this decision. It was bad management of resources, in that the potential reward won’t justify the investment.
Yes, his play this season can never justify that move.
Now his role on the team moving forward, then maybe we can talk, but that story has yet to be written I guess.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
wait, are you saying that Mez could score 50 goals, 100 assist, and be the playoff MVP where he single handedly wins us the Stanley Cup, and that would still not justify his cap or the 2nd rounder we gave up?
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
fixed
Yes, his play this season, assuming you are talking about his play only in terms of what is reasonably possible, can never justify that move
But also, yes, that was poor cap management considering team needs, which is why we were upset. We needed a 3rd pairing Dman, we got a 2nd pairing at $4mil. I was never upset with him as the player, I was upset with the signing versus team needs.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
technically, we didn’t sign him, TB previous GM did. Granted, the team has a lot of faith in him considering he did take over Prongers spot and has been pretty clutch there. And if it means anything, our 3rd line looks spotty without him, so I’m perfectly fine with Mez being a $4M 3rd liner this year.
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
And if it means anything, our 3rd line looks spotty without him, so I’m perfectly fine with Mez being a $4M 3rd liner this year.
The 3rd pairing would not be Bartulis/O`Donnell should we have gotten our way (meaning no Meszaros). So I don’t know what this has to do with anything.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 10, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, the trade was ppor cap management.
Also, as Geoff pointed out, the 3rd pairing would not have beer O’Donnell?Bartulis. Feel free to go back an read any of our several suggestions to fill that 5th DMan spot.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Yeah I can understand your point.
Was he a key piece that was absolutely need? No not necessarily, there were probably other options for cheaper to give the top 2 pairings less ice team overall.
Am I happy that we have him now? Yes absolutely
And he gives us some options for the future of the team.
Now my main point of debate is why is it that bad to have 5 guys being paid around the same playing D? is it more traditional or does it just come down to wasted money
I think it is b/c there is only so much skill on the other team that makes their $ value worth while, and why Meszaros suffers in terms of value.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
If Mez earned a spot playing second pairing and coburn was with odonnel lets say. does his value change? or was he still an unnecessary pick up?
I still view it as an unnecessary pick up b/c then you are diminishing Coburn’s value farther. Point is, someone, with the salary they have wrapped up in their top 5 Dmen) is not going to be good value. That person is likely going to be paired with O’Donnell and facing the opposing team’s worst players.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I agree with you and I am happy that Mez is playing well because it makes the excessive 4M contract a little easier to swallow even though it was unnecessary for this year.
However, I’m wondering if the flyers are actually using Mez against the worst players on average. I’m not an advanced stats geeks but I think it would actually be quite interesting if the Flyers D as a whole was utilized in a nontraditional way since they have such reliable depth 1st→3rd pairing. Its almost like they have three 2nd pairings on average
For the first 25 games or so I checked the Head to Head charts Travis put up with the game recaps, and Meszaros was consistently getting most of his minutes against the other team’s bottom 6 forwards.
For the advanced stats QaulComp is a +/- based stat and Corsi QoC is on Corsi per 60 I believe. So the first represents the opponents +/- and the second represents the opponents shots directed towards the net. QualComp is a good way to determine who played together and against what level of competition they faced (ie Leino, Hartnell, and Briere QualComp’s are all very close, representing how they are linemates, and they rank 8-10 out the Flyers 13 forwards, representing that they are facing roughly 3rd line competition).
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Well, think of it like this:
The Flyers have two guys better then Mez (Pronger and Timmonen). Now those two would never play on the same pairing on even strength because, well, why put all of your eggs in one basket. I think Kimmo works best with Coburn because Braydon is more prone to sneak up into the play on offense(not a bad thing) and Timmonen is the the best player on the roster, hell, NHL that can stop an odd man rush. So that line shouldnt be messed with. Now Pronger and Mez are esentially the same type of player, granted Pronger is much better, so you don’t want to have them together. So realistically, you want Pronger and Timmonen playing the best forwards regardless, because they are as shut down as any D in the league can be, and since Mez, who is ver very good himself, shouldnt be on either of their lines, t makes much more sense to plug him on the 3rd pairing. Granted, he will play the bottom half players more, but thats somethig I consider to be a good thing.
Now, you may ask why put O’donnell on the bottom line also? Well, the guy is 40 and shuldn’t be getting anywhere near the ammount of time that the top two lines get, so it only makes sense that he plays with Mez, and Carle plays with Pronger. So in essence, I dont want to bash Mez for his role, because its not his fault were have a stacked D. like you said, down the line, he will take over the top spots, but I dont its fair to bash the guy or the move because hes best suited on the 3rd line.
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
but I dont its fair to bash the guy or the move because hes best suited on the 3rd line.
Nobody is bashing him because of his role. But you went through the whole point of why Meszaros is unnecessary and not good value. The role required does not demand someone of Meszaros’ skill or cost. You admit as much. So why throw in “or the move” in that sentence?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 10, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think we can all agree that the move was unnecessary but I no longer see the need to grade Mez any further. The guy has proven he can play well even if its against the bottom players on other teams.
Point is even though we are overpaying for our defense I’m glad we have them. :P
honestly who knows what other move Homer could have made and if it would have worked out as nicely
We do the daily Meszaros grading to see how our eyes match up with the advanced stats, nothing more, nothing less. The advanced stats guys got a lot of shit from the we use our eyes guys, so we came up with the whole Meszaros grading thing.
It has nothing to do with proving he is or is not any good, but to see how what we watch differs from our conclusions from the advanced stats.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
oh! I just thought it was weird that he was singled out especially being a 2nd pairing guy being overpaid to play for the 3rd pairing.
I think there was so much discussion of him, and how all of us would be too hard on him with the advanced stats analysis (b/c he would be used as a 3rd pairing Dman) that he was the player of topic at the time, hence why he was used.
So in a way he was, but the whole exercise wasn’t meant to single him out specifically, he was just the player discussed when the idea came about.
If I could, I would do it with the whole team (like the Bylsma does with the Penguins), but it’s impossible during real time. I was doing it with Coburn as well for a while on my own, but even that became too much of a chore. Sometimes you just want to enjoy a game and not analyze anything.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
what do you view as value though then? I value having a 3rd pair that would be most teams 2nd pair to make up for having average goaltending.
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
Well now you are talking about value in a different context.
Value versus performance and role. If someone plays on a 4th line or 3rd pairing, they have an expectation of their contract amount. It’s not Meszaros’s fault that he is playing on the 3rd pairing here, nor is it his fault that he faces poor competition, so from a purely player grading stand point, he has played very well. But from a value perspective, he is of poor value b/c of his role on this team.
Now to your point, that money could have been used differently/more efficiently, maybe as you alluded to, toward goaltending, or on a legitimate winger, etc. But now you are talking about the value of the acquisition as opposed to player grades. The value of the acquisition, IMO, can’t truly be measure until we move forward in time. I viewed it as a loss this year, hopefully break even next two years, and an exceed the following year..as his role continues to grow. But that type of value can’t be measured yet.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I viewed it as a loss this year,
Again, I just cant see how having him on the 3rd line means its a loss. Bobs and Boosh are both quality starters(especially since stanly cup teams in the new NHL havn’t had a superstar goalie yet {I don’t view Ward as one because he won as a rookie}), and we have a top 5 offense and run 3 very good scoring lines. What killed us last year was the Pronger(and even Kimmo but not nearly as much) was worn down and are 3rd pair was getting dominated in the finals, Mez has come in and is fixing both those problems. Having a better goalie isn’t gonna limit Prongers TOI, but a better, more reliable 3rd pair will. Now if you want to say that we could have signed someone in the offseason for about $2M less and had the same effect, then yeah we probably could have, but I don’t think the players value should be judged on that, but the GM’s. I think adding Mez is gonna impact us beneficially more this year then you think, but hey, opinions are fun.
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
Now if you want to say that we could have signed someone in the offseason for about $2M less and had the same effect, then yeah we probably could have, but I don’t think the players value should be judged on that, but the GM’s.
That’s exactly what I am saying, and if you read my paragraph I am say that I am not judging the value Meszaros the player in that regard, but the value of Meszaros the acquisition.
I understand if it was hard for you to follow, but that’s what I am saying, I’m judging Meszaros the acquisition value as a loss this year, not the player.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Richards doesn’t even appear on the “Goals against Flyers” spreadsheet. There exists no reality in which Richards could be un-Flyer.
That would be because we drafted him, so he never played for anyone else. Or am I reading too much into your comment?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Giroux, Carter, JVR, Nodl, Powe, Gustafsson, and Bartulis all appeared with “N/A” next to them. Richards was simply omitted; I assume it was an oversight but I liked the effect.
New topic:
How friggin’ amazing was Bartulis on Saturday?
Answer: Very.
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Jan 10, 2011 11:10 AM EST reply actions
Lets be fair, he did play at home against the Devils, Im sure Geoff and Don could shut down their 4th line too.
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
Don could, if Boosh is in goal Geoff is going to be literally turned around the whole game and never leave the defensive zone.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t the Devils blow out TB yesterday?
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Yes, so by the transitive property: Flyers > Devils > Lightning > Capitals.
But we all already knew that.
Ugh, on a semi-related note, one of my Caps-loving friends told me last week that he was rooting for the Penguins against Tampa Bay, partly in retribution for TB beating the Caps a night or two before, but also to keep TB from pulling away from the Caps in the standings. I wanted to punch him in the head. I could never root for the Penguins (or Duke), regardless of the potential benefit for my team as a result of them winning. I think the nicest thing I’ve ever said about the Penguins was being glad they didn’t move to Kansas City because I enjoy the in-state rivalry. And I respect Mario far greater than Gretsky. (For the record, I’m pretty sure I’ve never said anything nice about Duke.)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I was just bringing up the TB thing to bring the joke full circle.
Did everyone forgot already?
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
*forget
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
That Sami painting makes me very happy. He was always my most-used player in NHL 2000 (or perhaps 2006, maybe even both, I forget) because he was faster than anyone else in the league. I miss him playing for the Flyers a whole lot.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Can you link me to the actual image? Twitter is failing right now
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you, Don! Everyone is talking about this awesome thing and I can’t see it. Also, Sami is one of my favorite Flyers of all time.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Sami! When he got flattened in that playoff game against Toronto and then stumbled back to the bench to make the line change that would score the OT goal? That was amazing. That play deserved hidden recognition on the painting too.
From Parts Unknown...
Currently behind enemy lines, plotting to blow up an Igloo.
So now that Brian Stewart has been Teslak’d, will Kovar be brought over next year? He seems to be playing well this year.
Teslak’d
Wow. That’s one I never would have come up with! :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Teslak’d: definition
Dumping a player after one season or less after signing said player amid accolades of what a great prospect he is.
Justed wanted to clarify what I meant with tha term. Please feel free to cite examples.
The Wild revealed as the ninth Guaradian
Very interesting. They’ve given up trying to be clever with their bios apparently:
. He is an intellectual and avid reader, taken from the fact that the Minneapolis-St. Paul area is one of the most highly literate in the Country.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions
Every single one so far can be based off another Marvel superhero. I mean, this is basically just Beast who can shoot s**t out of his hands.
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
Dude, any superhero created after the 70s can be said to have been stolen from other superheros that came before when you think about it. I see your point but I don’t think it’s that big of a deal.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, no questioning that but I’m just saying all superheros are derivative in some way.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Definitely. But in the end, how could it not be? You tell a bunch of hockey fans that STAN LEE is designing NHL superheros, and then give us a few months to think about it while we wait for the results. Our imaginations run wild and we come up with amazing ideas, so unless they come up with something truly mind-blowing, it’s going to fall short of what we envisioned for our own teams.
For me, it’s the half-assed backstories that are the worst. It seems to be where they spent most of their effort, but they still show no creativity and they’re really reaching to make connections that ultimately don’t work. I can’t read a single one without thinking at some point “wow, that’s a stretch”. I wish they had spent more time working on more creative names, or powers/character stats that fit the personality of each team. (like what Shaun did, though his backstory rocked, too)
In other words, thanks Shaun, for massively raising the bar on our expectations, and thereby ensuring that the real product looks like a huge pile of poo in comparison. This is all your fault. :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I’m SORRY!
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
As punishment, I sentence you to resume writing Slap Schtick comics.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Nice! Well played, sir.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jan 10, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
At least this one is pretty literal in appearance.
But being from Minnesota, they should have made some reference to it being a Lutheran, or something.
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Jan 10, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
He hates North Dakotan accents (due to everyone using the Fargo accent for Minnesota).
Honor is no substitute for victory.
<As a nod to Minnesota’s mining history, the Wild can also use his razor sharp claws to tunnel through the earth’s crust allowing him to sneak up on enemy fortresses.>
So we still have no clue who these Guardians are fighting, but whomever they are—the have Fortresses.
From Parts Unknown...
Currently behind enemy lines, plotting to blow up an Igloo.
The bios are so poorly written it makes my ears bleed.
I think the Devil is the worst so far.
Mourning Gagne forever.
How fitting.
After all these years, got to love watching the Devils flounder…
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jan 10, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
"He’s aware that his appearance doesn’t exactly scream “one of the good guys” so he goes out of his way to make sure people, especially kids, understand he is one."
Awful writing
“He honestly enjoys confrontation and he’s not afraid to jump …into any situation with attitude.”
“He doesn’t merely defeat his opponents, he annihilates them”.
That is poor hero making Stan, you made a bad hero.
Mourning Gagne forever.
No link in the fly-by for this video:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Video-Watch-Jesse-Boulerice-bump-ref-earn-10-g;_ylt=AjcYniagyVduvyyEovLMX2pivLYF?urn=nhl-304958
How and why is this guy still around?
Another of my protests.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 10, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
He almost certainly is. Rinaldo is more like Downie was when he first came up, IMO.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 10, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
except he isn’t as offensively talented, or has a sexual abuse case under his belt.
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
Downie “allegedly” sexually abused someone? When was that?
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jan 10, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
There is no case, actually.......
but when he was in jrs., that whole hazing case when he and a bunch of other team-mates made the new kids get naked.
During a practice on September 28, 2005, Downie blindly cross-checked Aliu in the face without warning, knocking out 3 of his teeth, and then proceeded to fight his smaller, younger teammate. The incident stemmed from 16-year-old Aliu’s refusal to take part in a hazing incident, where he would have been forced to stand naked in a cramped bus bathroom with other rookies.
Samesis
PSN - philliesflyers89
Oh ya, I remember that. Haha. He is out of his mind…
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jan 10, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Notice that he is in the Penguins organization now. Just sayin’…
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jan 10, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Philadelphia Flyers 2010 Year In Review Audio Montage: [the700Level.com]
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
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