Interpreting the CBA: Flyers Cannot Afford Erik Cole
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 11:58 AM EST
in Philadelphia Flyers Commentary
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PrintWith the waiving of Matt Walker yesterday, the Flyers look to rid themselves of his $1.7 million yearly cap hit as of about 12:01 pm today. There are reports out there that this move would allow the Flyers to acquire someone with a $3.6 million yearly cap hit in the coming days.
This quite possibly could be correct. The Flyers reported this number, and CapGeek uses the same thinking, so they will almost certainly reach the same number listed under "Acquisition Space".
The problem is, I'm not so sure that is the case. Let's run down some numbers first:
- The Flyers are $65,138 over the yearly cap right now. This is allowed due to LTIR, and it is going down every day.
- It's going down because the Flyers are $4,262 under the daily cap and have been since Michael Leighton was sent to the Phantoms.
- They will be under the daily cap by $13,402 on the first day Matt Walker is no longer on the team.
- Do some simple calculations ($65,138 divided by $13,402) and you see that it will take 5 days for the Flyers to be under the yearly salary cap - for the first time since Mike Rathje was a healthy player for the Flyers in 2007.
- There are 72 days remaining in the season, so in 5 days the Flyers will have ($13,402 daily underage * 67 days) $897,934 available to spend for the remainder if the season. Add in the $1,872 "remainder" from when they pay off their yearly debt, and you get $899,806.
- If you want to know what that yearly cap hit is, you take ($899,806 divided by 67) and multiply by 186 (days in the season) to come up with $2,497,968.90.
This is how people get the number that the Flyers will be able to acquire a player earning just slightly less than a $2.5 million cap hit. Where does the $3.6 million come from you ask? Add Ian Laperriere's ~$1.1 million hit, and there you go.
So we're all on the same page now. Jump to see why I don't think you can take $2.5 million and add the LTIR allowance.
Article 50.5(e)(v) is titled "Acquiring SPCs After the Commencement of a Season, Via Trade or Waivers." It states:
"In order for a Club to acquire a one-year SPC after the commencement of a season (i.e., that is expiring at the conclusion of the then-current League Year), the Club must have Payroll Room equal to or in excess of the remaining Player Salary and Bonuses to be earned by the Player under the SPC."
The problem here is that the Flyers do not have "Payroll Room equal to or in excess of" $3.6 million. They have Payroll room equal to $899,806, which is a yearly cap hit of $2,497,968.90.
Need a definition of "Payroll Room"? Article 50.5(e)(i):
"A Club's Payroll Room is the amount by which the Upper Limit exceeds the Club's Averaged Club Salary. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein contained, no Club may enter into or assume an SPC, enter into an Offer Sheet, extend a Qualifying Offer, or engage in any other Player transaction that commits the Club to Player Salary and Bonuses for which the Club does not have Payroll Room (A) except as permitted by Section 50.5(h) below with respect to the "Performance Bonus Cushion" and Section 50.10(d) below with respect to the Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception; and (B) subject to the provisions set forth in Sections 50.5(e)(iv), (e)(v) and (f)(iii) below."
So Payroll Room is as we explained above: The Flyers will have $13,402 per day in payroll room, or $899,806.
But, you say, it allows for an exception due to LTIR right there! 50.10(d)!
The problem is that 50.10(d) allows for the Club to exceed the Upper Limit. LTIR does not move the Flyers' Upper Limit, thus creating more space between the Upper Limit and the Averaged Club Salary, but rather allows the Averaged Club Salary to go over the Upper Limit. In plain language, this is the "LTIR does not take the cap hit off the cap, it allows you to go over" part.
As such, when calculating Payroll Room to determine if a Club may acquire a player via trade, LTIR does not get added to the actual Payroll Room. In formula form:
[(Upper Limit - Averaged Club Salary) > Remaining Player Salary and Bonuses]
LTIR does not come into that formula, except to say that [Averaged Club Salary < (Upper Limit + LTIR)]
Until someone explains how LTIR allowance equals Payroll Room, the Flyers may only trade for someone who is owed $899,806 for the remainder of the season or less. This does not include Erik Cole.
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Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t believe that you don’t get the reference. It’s the Dude from The Big Lebowski.
by hartmanzord on Jan 28, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Ah. No, I didn’t get it.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
You forget the most important part, and you said it yourself “TRADE” include the player heading out i.e. Nodl, Carbomb, or Zherdev that salery will also come off the books(could we afford to do it for a draft pic? maybe not but Homer CAN make it work! Lets go Flyers !
by nomorepowderpuffhockey on Jan 28, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Trades don’t have to include rostered players.
They could easily offer Leighton + Marshall for Cole, but they can’t afford that, thus cannot make the trade.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I’m more so bothered with the idea that people are okay with giving up Zherdev and/or Nodl in a trade, especially for the names being proposed.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Well if Z is going to continue to be used in the limited role that he is, then what’s wrong with getting ride of him for someone who in theory will better fit Lavy and his system?
Believe me, I want Z here now and for the future but it’s pretty clear that the future is out of the picture and in the present, he is being under utilized.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Well if Z is going to continue to be used in the limited role that he is
His role with Carter and G of late is perfectly okay with me. I don’t see any other available players getting anytime on the PP anyway, so it would still be 5 on 5. With the Flyers depth, most anyone that comes in would be some kind of a limited role.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
It’s ok with me too, but who knows how long it will stay that way.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Yeah I guess if Lavy insists on putting him on the 4th line whenever he makes the same type of mistake that Leino does, it be better to bring in a playing that would at least provide continuity moving forward. But I just don’t see anyone bringing Z’s skill set in here, and as unique as it is, I’d like to have him at least as the wild card.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I don’t think you nailed the cadence there. “Yeah, well, that’s just, like, uh, your opinion, man.”
But, yeah, I got it.
yea the cadence was off, but i am work/slightly distracted and it was the first thing i thought of. either way, it shouldn’t matter, it’s the Dude.
by hartmanzord on Jan 28, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
EDIT!
Yeah, well, that’s just, like, uh, your opinion, man.
by hartmanzord on Jan 28, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Geoff is always such a negative person. Why cant you write an article called “OMG! Flyers will try and get E.Cole <33311” and then talk about who and why what players we can trade for him?
Samesis
Because I love proving people wrong.
It just so happens that it’s always Carchidi I prove wrong.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
It just so happens that it’s always Carchidi I prove wrong.
That must be challenging,
I know that God is in the Radio.
Probably as difficult as block quoting.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
But...
That means they can’t acquire Erik Cole for draft picks.
But they can acquire him in a trade where they give up a player whose annual salary is at least $402,031.10, right?
by Eric T. on Jan 28, 2011 12:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Cole makes $15,591 per day. Minus the $13,402 daily allowance and you get $407,154.
I’m assuming you did the math with different numbers – perhaps the “remainder” ~$899k figure?
Doesn’t matter, you are entirely correct.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Capgeek told me Cole had a 2.9M cap hit, you said the Flyers have payroll room equivalent to a yearly cap hit just under 2.5M, and I subtracted.
I should know by now that daily numbers are the way to go. Well, I do know it, but apparently the yearly numbers are too ingrained.
No worries. The number is fairly accurate either way.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
But the point isn’t “the Flyers cannot afford Erik Cole” even if that’s the headline (gotta get page view, ya her?), the point is: The Flyers do not have $3.6 million in Cap Space.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
/nod
So…they could package Carcillo in a Cole deal, but they couldn’t get a $3.5M player in that deal.
They cannot add $3.6 million in salary through a trade.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, no.
They need to wait 5 days.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Why would it be [(Upper Limit – Averaged Club Salary) > Remaining Player Salary and Bonuses]? Shouldn’t it be Raw Club Salary? Bonuses are being counted against the total remaining amount of dollars at the end.
What is “Raw Club Salary”?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
A term I made up, obviously. I just need something to describe actual money spent against the cap.
Basically: I didn’t understand why the word “Average” was in your original equation. Maybe I don’t know exactly what it is you’re averaging.
Average was in there because those are the words used to define Payroll Room.
So I took the requirement to trade for someone (Payroll Room > Remaining Player Salary and Bonuses) and broke it down by Payroll Room definition.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Then I’m just unclear on the definition of Payroll Room, probably as a result of having read none of the CBA in context. I’m not sure whether, in that paragraph, Upper Limit describes per diem or the year-long cap ceiling. If it’s the former, I don’t see why performance bonuses would come into play; they wouldn’t be mentioned until you tabulate things at the end, and we’re blind to those until then. If it’s the latter, then I think the paragraph can only be read as “a team cannot sign someone that puts them over total cap-friendly payroll at the end of the year.” That would suggest we would have the 3.6 mil in acquisition space.
Upper Limit is yearly cap – $59.4 million. How do you bring LTIR back into that?
LTIR doesn’t change the Upper Limit. It changes the Averaged Club Salary.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Wait a minute ...
So divide his salary by the 186 days, then multiply his daily by the 67 remaining – and you get:
$1,044,625.66
Which even by my quick math is only $140k off, right? Can’t they just sell more of those cool new beers? (JK) But really – they only need to clear an another annual salary amount of $389k. SO, as long as you trade someone who makes that much more than Cole, or waive/trade someone making that much, you’re golden, right?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
I wasn’t lying. I simply didn’t say “Without clearing additional salary”.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t admit to lying.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah – I guess it takes me longer to do math than most … since I’m an engineer and all :)
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 28, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
I just hope we don’t stay put like last year. I always thing a mid-season trade is always good for a team.
Samesis
Picking up Ville Leino 6 days before the trade deadline last year was huge.
On the other had, getting rid of Scottie Upshall and a 2nd for Carbomb destroyed the team chemistry in 08/09
by Prometheus74 on Jan 28, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
You do know were currently the best team in hockey right?
I mean, the whole if it aint broke thing…
by philiafan14364 on Jan 28, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
We already players capable of pushing Shelley out of the lineup. The fact that he hasn’t been should be telling you something.
I completely agree. But Carcillo won’t change the team. Acquiring someone better than both….would haha.
getting someone who eventually pushes Shelley out of the lineup is making the team better.
I was simply responding to your argument, man.
In terms of someone better: For what role? At what price? With what contract?
I agree that Matt Duchense would make our team better. However, in terms of realistic solutions, I’m not sure there’s much on the board that makes us that much better, given the price. And since this thread of comments is based off the idea that “a midseason trade is always a good thing,” I decided to take objection.
Okay, you can take my comments as literal as you want but you have to understand what I’m saying. I don’t really care if we change the team; I love the team as it is right now. So I do respect what you’re arguing. But, there are some people out there that could make the team better. We’ve listed them in other threads so I’m not going to clog this up. The only thing I could see making sense is getting someone with a little more scoring touch than Nodl, throw him with Richie, and put Nodl on the fourth. If that happened, our teams better. Maybe that scenario isn’t out there like you’re saying and if not, I’m fine with what we have.
Probably just a bit peevish today.
Anyway, the point I was making about Shelley is that I don’t think they consider him a burden, at least in the locker room, and he’ll probably dresses through the regular season and then only in emergency use after that.
It’s not that I think the team we have is untouchable, I just don’t think there are many realistic options that involve taking on extra salary (if you’re moving Nodl down to the fourth, that involves keeping him and Z, meaning Carcillo is the only moveable piece, if he can be called that) while improving scoring on an expiring contract. I’ll check the posts again, but that’s a small window, and a real superficial flaw to fix.
Def true. What about people like Leights, Syvret(yea i went there), late picks, or a combo of all the aforementioned. There really aren’t any flaws; I’m just discussing for the sake of discussing.
Yeah, my problem is that I think the bottom end of our depth chart (and/or moveable players) as valueless (Leighton, Walker, Carcillo) or undervalued (Nodl, Zherdev). I don’t want to turn a trade simply to turn a trade. This is the first time in nearly a decade where we don’t even need to.
You know a player I’d rather have than Cole? Marty Reasoner. The guy’s great at winning face-offs, can check an opponent’s top line and even draws a fair share of penalties. Cole’s a great player who can deliver a lot of hits, but Reasoner is an exceptionally intelligent player who gets overlooked because he’s spent so much of his career with the Oilers and Thrashers.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Aren’t we looking for a scoring winger?
by phinally on Jan 28, 2011 12:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Do the Flyers really need one? Zherdev/Carter/Giroux, Hartnell/Briere/Leino, Nodl/Richards/JVR, Powe/Reasoner/Betts with Shelley and Carcillo as extra forwards.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
If not, then who are we looking for? We have the checkers, energy guys, power forwards, special teams guys, and definitely centers. The only slight void is Richie’s wing. Don’t get me wrong, Nodl is fine there but the only upgrade over him is a scoring winger. Other than that, there is no move to make.
Good point — a scoring winger does make sense for Richie’s wing. I just happen to think Reasoner is one of the more underrated players definitely available to trade — he’d work his way into the lineup somehow. Maybe someone like Curtis Glencross for Richie’s wing?
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Do the Flyers pay for his bus ticket to Glen Falls? Or does he have to drive through the snow?
by NickFotiu4HOF on Jan 28, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
So
What if, during this allstar break, we send down some of our waiver exempt people to the phantoms for “conditioning purposes”.
So we send down Nodl, Giroux, bobrovsky, or anyone of that nature. Now we have space. So we sign someone, hypothetically Cole, and he would fit.
After doing this, we call respective player back up and they fit underneath Lappy’s LTIR cushion.
Legal, plausible, feasible???
by phinally on Jan 28, 2011 12:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
In 5 days, and ignoring semantical changes to your post, that’s definitely plausible.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I meant to include the five days stipulation. And by semantically, you mean the players I denoted? They’re just to portray the idea.
by phinally on Jan 28, 2011 1:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wait, I’m confused, and google isn’t helping. When do they need to pass through re-entry waivers? Another team couldn’t claim Nodl/Giroux/Bob or whoever, right? But another team could claim Leighton if he got called up, right? What’s the difference?
Training for the Phillies 5K Run on March 26th. Hoping I don't embarrass myself :-)
by LeepinLizardz on Jan 28, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Completely off-topic, but did anyone see the new Verizon commercial featuring the Flyers?
"I make love to pressure." - Stephen Jackson
"My passion is more passionate than ever." - Greg Paulus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjQzPT-ddDc&feature=related
"I make love to pressure." - Stephen Jackson
"My passion is more passionate than ever." - Greg Paulus
by joe_digiacomo on Jan 28, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Flyers are in the zeitgeist
Anyone catch Shameless on Showtime last week? Out of the blue, they drop in a Flyers’ hater comment. Steve is dropping off Islanders tickets for Ian and he picks the Oilers over the Flyers, and the neighbor Kevin yells “That’s a good choice, the Flyers are a bunch of fags!”
I watched one episode, but it isn’t nearly as good as the BBC original. I mean, I’ve heard of remakes, but this one is literally frame by frame. In the original, Steve is played by James McAvoy. So much better. So fuck those writers and their inferior remake with the token Flyers jab.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Question…if the Flyers were to acquire someone, that takes them up to the max in cap space does that then preclude them from resigning Leino during this season?
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
It would put them back in the situation they were in before Leighton and Walker were waived. So, no, they couldn’t re-sign Leino.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Right that’s what I thought. So then really this makes no sense.
The Flyers truly do not need anyone, not now, not while(knock on wood) everyone is healthy.
Resigning Leino should be the priority here and that really is not even up for debate.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
They could easily re-sign Leino, then go get a $2.4 million player the next day.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
You have to realize though that signing leino this season does not do shit for the team THIS season. If we can do anything to improve the team even if it is a depth guy, why not? The same scenario that you want now could happen in the offseason.
Leino’s value now < Leino’s value with a ring.
You sign your good players as soon as you can, especially if you don’t have real holes to fill.
Although if they get someone with an expiring SPC, it doesn’t count against tagging, since those are excluded for tagging purposes.
Bob.
But it would drop their current Payroll Room to $0, so they’d be doing the (Expiring contracts – tagged room) formula.
Maybe that equals ~$2 million? I forget.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's closer to $4 million
Expiring Contracts:
Carter $5.000
Zherdev $2.000
Carcillo $1.075
Nodl $0.735 (not counting bonus)
Giroux $0.822
Leino $0.800
Powe $0.725
O’Donnell $1.000
Boucher $0.925
Total: $13.082
Less tagged contracts:
Carter $5.273
Giroux $3.750
Total: $9.023
Net: $4.059 million in (expiring contracts – tagged room)
Bob.
Very good point. But this tells me that the Flyers could have signed him at any point this year…
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
True, but they may have been concerned about having room for other signings (Powe, Nodl, Carcillo, Zherdev), and only just now becoming convinced that Leino’s the only one to really put a priority on.
Bob.
Unlikely, but completely possible.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
1) You are assuming Geoff that the League understands its own CBA I believe it does.
2) Then what is the point of LTIR if you can’t use that salary in acquiring players to fill that missing roster spot.
What if a big number player player say 7 million on the LTIR you couldn’t use any of that money to trade for another Big TIcket player with an expiring contract. Obviously if you did make a trade you couldn’t take the 7 million dollar play off the LTIR without cap issues.
Wasn’t that the case with Danny two years ago we traded for Carle using some of Danny’s LTIR money to fit him then had to waive Metro and Vannanen and trade Upshall to get Danny back off LTIR.
i think you have a point with the carle example…
by edesjardins37 on Jan 28, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
1) You are assuming Geoff that the League understands its own CBA I believe it does.
It’s the only assumption one can make.
2) Then what is the point of LTIR if you can’t use that salary in acquiring players to fill that missing roster spot.
What’s the point in specifying that it’s an exemption – not a removal – if it doesn’t affect anything?
What if a big number player player say 7 million on the LTIR you couldn’t use any of that money to trade for another Big TIcket player with an expiring contract.
Ignoring the likelihood of a team replacing one of 17 players in the NHL with another player in that list, there are many ways to do this:
- Acquire a $7 million player at the midpoint of the season with your $3.5 million in cap space.
- Acquire a $7 million player 2/3 of the way through the season with your $2.33 million in cap space.
- Acquire a $7 million player at the midpoint of the season with your $2 million in cap space by shedding $3 million in salary.
and on and on and on.
Wasn’t that the case with Danny two years ago we traded for Carle using some of Danny’s LTIR money to fit him then had to waive Metro and Vannanen and trade Upshall to get Danny back off LTIR.
This is a good point, and unfortunately, I don’t know where to find an archived version of the 08-09 cap. But, they have been on LTIR every single day for over 3 years, so any trade they’ve made has been subject to these rules, not just Carle’s. So last year, when they grabbed Leighton off waivers, they had to have had at least $183,420 in cap space in December despite being on LTIR.
It’s entirely possible that the Flyers had ~$15,000 in daily cap space when they acquired Matt Carle – or ~$5,200 when you subtract Eminger and Downie’s estimated daily hit – that they didn’t have later when they were swapping Giroux and Kukkonen and all those people.
In reality, if we assume that Eminger made $1mil that year (I can’t find how much he made) and we know that Downie made $821,667, the trade was made roughly a month into the year… That means they needed to have (($3,437,500/180)~150) – [(($1,000,000/180)~150)+(($821,667/180)*~150)] or $2.86m – ($833k + $685k) = $1.45m available as of that day.
Isn’t it entirely possible that the team had $1.45 million available when they traded for Matt Carle? In other words, that they didn’t actually use Briere’s LTIR space?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
That got really, really confusing at the end. Let me clarify.
When the Flyers wished to bring Briere back off LTIR, they only had to clear $2.5 million in salary. (Randy Jones made more than that…) Briere makes $6.5 million. Over-simplified math tells you that they had $4 million in space. So trading for Matt Carle’s ~$3.4 million should be pretty easy to get under the cap without using LTIR.
All those numbers are just… confusing.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
He isn’t a bad player. It would provide some more leadership and he does know how to score. He’s just on a shitty team all the time.
he’s aging, all recent seasons are truncated by injury, and he peaked at 30 goals 5 years ago and done shit before and since… he’s not particularly big, or a notable two-way forward… bill guerin had far more to offer this team than erik cole would ever have…
by edesjardins37 on Jan 28, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
actually, i wouldn’t mind seeing upshall back in town for the rest of the year…
by edesjardins37 on Jan 28, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t the Flyers do what the Hawks did and use some of the 5 million Bonus cushion?
isn’t that how the Hawks afforded the team and then got screwed because Toews and Kane both had bonuses for winning the cup and winning the Conn Smythe?
btw I’m the first to admit I’m pretty clueless on the CBA.
Dough Weight is so old, The LHH community made over 200 so old jokes
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
but Bonuses aren’t figured in till the end of the year, and there’s a limited number of players who can actually have bonuses. So they would either have to be 35+ contracts or ELC.
Dough Weight is so old, The LHH community made over 200 so old jokes
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
They are already using the bonus cushion, because they aren’t including the bonuses that JVR, Bob and SOD might achieve.
Because there is no allocated space for them, if those guys hit their bonuses this season then the Flyers will suffer a cap penalty next season.
The whole idea of being right against the cap must be pretty foreign to you haha.
Mourning Gagne forever.
haha, yea. I live outside of Philly though so I pay attention.
Didn’t know they were already using the Bonus cushion, but it’s not like JVR, Bob or SOD are going to hit their bonuses. And the Flyers don’t need to give out large bonuses for random stuff to get to the cap floor.
I guess the fix would be if you trade, get the team to take Carcillo since he’s a UFA anyway. Most teams that are selling have cap space to spare except the Devils.
Dough Weight is so old, The LHH community made over 200 so old jokes
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
but it’s not like JVR, Bob or SOD are going to hit their bonuses
We have no idea what the bonuses are for though. That’s one thing that management can plan for that we can’t know about.
The bonuses aren’t huge, but it’s a significant amount to a team against the cap. They could potentially be worth 1 or 2 minimum contracts.
Mourning Gagne forever.
Also, if they are performance-related bonuses (they are), I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that all three hit their marks, especially if they are Pts, Starts, and GP, respectively.
To just add to this, I wouldn’t be surprised if one or all three of JVR, Bob, and Nodl have “Win the Calder Trophy” as a bonus, which only Bob could possibly achieve this year.
It’s things like this we have no idea about.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Just to give an idea of the scale we’re talking about, those four players (JvR, SOD, Bob, and Noodles) have just under $2 million combined in potential bonuses – $637,000 for JvR, $115,000 for Nodl, $300,000 for SOD, and $850,000 for Bob. I have no clue what any of them are for, though, so no guesses on who will or won’t get theirs.
Bob.
Let’s get John Madden! He’s supposedly on the block. He and Betts on the 4th line and PK would be Shut Down City! (assuming one of them can swtich to wing) He’s a great face off guy too.
THIS!!! if shelley is in the press box or shipped out (though, i like the guy)…
by edesjardins37 on Jan 28, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
We need to get G off the penalty kill also…he needs to save the legs.
by IG on Jan 28, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with the conserving energy part but G and Richie definitely keep teams in check when they’re on the pk. The opposition can’t play as aggressively or handle the puck at the point as much. Just sayin.. I do like Madden though and hasn’t Betts’s FO% been slipping a little?
I agree. I think Richie and G do a fantastic job, but lets not roll them out unless we’re in a “must kill” situation (i.e. PK down a goal with 5 min to go…usually Briere doing something stupid)
Bett’s FO% is at 47% this year….just checked. Maddens is a little over 50%…which is down for him.
by IG on Jan 28, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Madden’s 50%+ would still be 2nd best out of all the centers on the Flyers…
by IG on Jan 28, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Scoring bias on the perception of possession off the face off?
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
It could be that. My first question when I noticed it was whether other teams were taking advantage of home ice to throw their top FO guys out against Betts. That would take comparing the FO% of the guys he draws against based on whether it’s home or away, which sounds like entirely too much work for idle curiosity to me.
Bob.
It’s times like this where I wish my math skills extended beyond learning, understanding, and interpreting statistics.
Is Paul Holmgren really bad at managing the salary cap? Does Matt Stairs enjoy getting his ass hammered by guys?
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
It’s the daily numbers that really get you. That’s not how I was raised to think about salaries, damnit!
by mantis toboggan on Jan 28, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
This is entirely true.
The daily numbers make the whole thing convoluted because you are constantly going back and forth between yearly (the actual “cap hit”) and daily. It’s a pain in the ass.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
haha, honestly, my math skills don’t go beyond Algebra II. All the numbers above are fairly simple addition, subtraction, division, and multiplication.
It’s simply a matter of doing the right calculations in the right formulas. Which is algebra.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 28, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Same with my math skills. Like mantis toboggan said, it’s mostly the daily numbers and the not always clear cut language in the CBA combined with the math that make my head hurt. I understand the conclusions you are drawing, but I could never explain everything in a post like you do.
Is Paul Holmgren really bad at managing the salary cap? Does Matt Stairs enjoy getting his ass hammered by guys?
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
You know how is better and cheaper than Cole. Andrew Brunette at 2.33 million.
Come on Minnesota you should realize by now you have no shot of actually doing anything even if you happen to make the playoffs. -4 Goal Differential and an exciting 130 goals for that is 24 goals less that the friggin Boston Bruins who also can’t score and play better defense.
I really want the Flyers to stand pat, at least for the time being. For the time being, the team is running fine and I don’t think we need any changes, so let’s just save up some cap space for a little so we can counter any potential bonuses and not have any penalties for next season, in which the cap could go up a nice amount due to the high revenue the NHL is getting this season.
The trade deadline isn’t for another month (I think it’s Feb 28), so if we want to acquire somebody, there’s time to wait. Don’t do it unless we need to fill another spot (i.e. somebody gets injured, etc.)
p.s. I don’t want Erik Cole. I can’t imagine where he’d fit in without knocking somebody out of the lineup that I’d want to keep. This team is firing on all cylinders and I don’t want to add or subtract from the lineup now.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
I think this team is pretty damn good as is. Wait until the deadline to see where we’re at, who’s offering what, and make a decision at that point. I don’t want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. I’d only want to make a trade to get better, and right now we’re the best team in the league. It doesn’t get any better than the Flyers right now.
Didn’t they already move Laperierre to the LTIR. Im pretty sure they did it was from one of the Walker/Leighton moves.
Laperriere has been on LTIR, yes.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 29, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
personally i don’t see why the flyers “must” be “under” the cap… or why they should feel restrained… i mean to say, let them break as many rules as they can, or at least toe the line as close as possible… take every inch given! as long as you maintain a qualifying team, do whatever you can to be as successful as possible! i mean honestly whats the worst that could happen… we lose another “ossi or glen”… i say push the envelope (just don’t cross the line like the devils…)
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