Blair Betts failed physical, has been sent back to Flyers
by Travis Hughes on Oct 9, 2011 2:11 PM EDT
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Blair Betts was waived by the Flyers the other day. We complained about it quite a bit, and when he was claimed by the Montreal Canadiens, we complained about it a lot louder.
But then, after the claim, word came out that Betts had an injury. We all immediately thought it was his shoulder, but as it turns out, he's just been plagued by some relatively minor lower-body injury. Via the Montreal Gazette two days ago:
"The shoulder's just fine," said Betts. "I have a lowerbody injury and the club decided that they wanted to check things out. If it as my decision, I'd be playing but I respect what they're doing and I hope that I'll be in the lineup in Winnipeg."
He's not going to be playing today in Winnipeg, and it appears that he could be on his way back to Philadelphia if a TSN Radio report from Montreal is to be believed.
I have it on good authority that the
#Habs have sent Blair Betts back to Philly because he did not pass his physical. ... Betts info comes from two different sources, both of whom mentioned Betts not passing medical. ... One source has Betts already headed back to Philly from Montreal.
UPDATE: NHL has confirmed the news. Betts is a Flyer again. Press release after the jump.
Teams can indeed cancel waiver claims if a player fails a physical. Here's the relevant section of the CBA:
13.20 (a) The Club acquiring a Player by Waiver claim shall take an Assignment of the Player's SPC. Nevertheless, if the Commissioner determines that a Player acquired by Waiver claim is not physically fit at the time the claim is made, the Club making the claim may refuse to take an Assignment of such Player's SPC and the request for Waivers shall be canceled.
The Commissioner determines, but we're guessing that since he's not a doctor, that's just based off of the results of his physical. (Although he probably is smug enough to think that he can be a doctor.)
We wonder what this says about the injury. If it was really just a minor lower-body injury, the Canadiens would probably just hold onto him instead of sending him back to the Flyers. And if he comes back to the Flyers injured, well... that's not good.
We disagree with the decision to waive a healthy Betts in order to fit a rookie into the lineup (although if Sean Couturier can keep it up over a full season, it wouldn't be so bad) -- or, even worse, a tough guy or a pest -- but if Betts isn't healthy and it's something serious, there's no value there at all.
In essence, he'd just be taking up a contract spot, and Paul Holmgren probably should have realized that this would happen if he knew Betts was injured in the first place. Now he's in a situation where if he wants to keep Couturier around past beyond October, he's going to have to get rid of a contract.
There are options, but this is the folly of painting yourself into a corner with the contract limit and the salary cap and everything else. It gets you into messes like this, and you always need to find a creative way to get out of it.
We'll see what the hell happens next, but for now, Betts is a Flyer again. An injured Flyer that knows his organization doesn't really want him.
Here's the NHL press release:
NEW YORK (October 9, 2011) -- Forward Blair Betts, who was claimed on waivers by the Montreal Canadiens from the Philadelphia Flyers on October 5, has been returned to the Flyers, per NHL By-Law 11.8 (a), the National Hockey League announced today.
NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman rendered the decision after reviewing submissions from both Clubs. By-Law 11.8 (a) states: "The Member Club acquiring a player by waiver claim shall take an assignment of the player's contract. Nevertheless, if the Commissioner determines that a player acquired by waiver claim is not physically fit at the time the claim is made, the Member Club making the claim may refuse to take an assignment of such player's contract and the request for waivers shall be cancelled."
In reaching his decision, Commissioner Bettman stated: "While it is clear that both clubs have acted in good faith in this unique situation (i.e. a waiver claim), I am not prepared to dispute the conclusion of the Montreal Club doctors that Mr. Betts was physically unfit to play at the time of the claim. Therefore, it is my decision that, per League By-Laws, the appropriate resolution to this matter is to restore the parties to the position they were in prior to the waiver claim on Oct. 5."
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Said he was injured when he was released, and now he’s back
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Oct 9, 2011 2:16 PM EDT reply actions
I hear the adirondak mountains are beautiful this time of year.
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They are!
Used to live there. But it’s not a good place for Blair Betts. OTOH, not sure what IS a good place for him, other than healthy and playing hockey. Time will tell.
by Georgia_Flyer on Oct 9, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ll see what the hell happens next, but for now, Betts is a Flyer again. An injured Flyer that knows his organization doesn’t really want him.
Sad statement to end it there. Curious situation, and unless we find out what the injury is, hard to understand. Hoping this gets figured out without the FO looking like a bunch of complete idiots.
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I think with this front office, it is already looking like they are a bunch of complete idiots. But if Betts’ injury isn’t too serious and they can figure out a way to remove one of the less necessary roster pieces (Shelley, Rinaldo) and keep Betts, this could be a blessing in disguise.
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Oh, I agree, should have said “bigger” idiots. And it could be nice, not sure what the injury is, but I know a lot of people here commented that he looked slow in preseason, so maybe if the injury heals he can contribute. Just going to be a iffy situation.
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I know this is a betts post but I am really thinking it’s time to hard shop hartnell. And even if it gets you a decent pick and a role player or prospect. I love the guy and he adds character to the team but it’s clear the flyers are on a new path and direction. and not this week but in the near future.
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If you believe the rumors, it may already be happening. One of the many things I worried about this offseason is where is everything going to fit, line wise. He seems to be an odd man out at this point, but I’d much rather have him than Rinaldo/Shelly/Tostitio, as he can at least contribute minutes and some points. Way overpaid for a third line type role, but unless he waives the clause, he belongs to the Flyers.
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He is better then a third line role player in all fairness, but it is apparent he is not fitting in with the speed/youth movement. If either rinaldo or the others is who were talking about would be stupid. Shelley comes back and rinaldo is waived.
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The sad part is, every time I hear that, I’m not sure which is worse, Batshit or Shelly.
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Worse at what?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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Exactly. Not sure if you want the one cause he skates better and might be able to contribute if Lavy can control him (not likely), or the other because he’s more controlled but can’t really contribute.
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The latter fights. He is ready willing able to do that.
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Yes, but at the price I’d rather waive him and see what happens—I like watching fights, but I don’t want to pay a guy to do solely that. If you can fit a decent fourth line under the cap without a goon, and they can put in 10+ minutes a game, it can keep your other lines fresh, give you an edge late in a game. The goon just might swing some momentum here and there, but a normal player (such as SImmonds last night) can do that as well, while contributing to the overall game plan.
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Embrace the Jagr.*
I am too tired from watch the fuckin eagles stink to do the fighter value thing. But simmonds standing up for himself is awesome, fightin as a game plan is better served through Shelley.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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I have just looked at the transactions of the Montreal Canadiens, about 3 days ago, the Habs called up Andreas Engqvist, a player with an annual cap hit of $900K. Considering Betts’ cap hit is $700K and the Habs had about $1.2 mil in annual cap space, I think Betts has some injury that requires convalescence and neither the Flyers or the Habs have the cap space for him.. The Flyers tried to dodge his hit by waiving him and the Habs have done it by using a very literal interpretation of CBA clause 13.20(a).
So just so I’m clear here, we tried to make Paul Holmgren sound like an idiot for waiving Betts and now we’re doing the same for getting him back?
by everybodyhitswoohoo on Oct 9, 2011 2:38 PM EDT reply actions
Holmer has no say in getting him back. He may be a bigger idiot for knowing there was an injury and trying to pass him off (no one will probably every actually know that btw), when the CBA states you can return the waiver claim if he can’t pass a physical.
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Although, you got to kind of like Homer trying to by sneaky and pawn off a decrepit Betts and get rid of a contract. It was almost a very shrewd move.
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by Mitchell Green on Oct 9, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
So since they knew betts had an injury what were they supposed to do with him? Sounds like homer put himself in an unwinnable spot with you guys
by ryan1 on Oct 9, 2011 2:46 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Forgot the sarcasm font. And it’s doomed if he does and doomed if doesn’t.
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But at least he tried lol
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by Mitchell Green on Oct 9, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So since they knew betts had an injury what were they supposed to do with him?
Assuming they knew, you don’t try to screw someone in the NHL. That’s bad business.
What was he supposed to do? Put Betts on IR, like they did with Zolnierczyk.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
For all we know, they waived him and sent a note to the other GMs saying he had a minor injury but the Flyers expected him to be ready to play, and Montreal claimed him and decided they disagreed.
I hate to speculate about this, because I can see a dozen plausible sequences of events.
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by Eric T. on Oct 9, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I understand. But the point is: Betts’ injury doesn’t make my anger as his being waived ignorant.
Speculating is bad, yes. But how this can be spun in a “See, Flyers FO is smart!” is beyond me.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I understand. But the point is: Betts’ injury doesn’t make my anger as his being waived ignorant.
Speculating is bad, yes. But how this can be spun in a “See, Flyers FO is smart!” is beyond me.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
How Is this holmer or the FO fault if they didn’t know?
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If they didn’t know he was injured? They absolutely should’ve known he was injured.
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by Travis Hughes on Oct 9, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If he never says anything how do they know? And if it’s a minor knee or foot injury it hardly raises flags for damaged goods. Almost every other player could complain about minor injuries every day.
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He failed a physical, so there was likely some objective evidence.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
And the guys all took physicals 4 weeks ago and apparently he passed. I know the FO is the enemy but really this smells like claimers remorse.
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Even if the injury is that recent, there would be evidence in the level of performance. That is all a physical is testing.
Besides, I’m not even sure it matters in this discussion. I’m not blaming Homer, but if the medical staff didn’t know of the injury at all, then add that the list of problems I’ve had with them.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
He might have known between the flyers and canadiens his window was closing and hid some things and the staff was trying not to hurt his chance if he figured he could play through it. I am just getting tired of the FO venom.
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Do you see it coming from me in this thread? From the very beginning I’ve said that waiving Betts was a terrible move, barring an injury that wasn’t publicly disclosed.
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If Travis ever publishes the new BSH Radio, you’ll hear that I kinda called this.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Oct 9, 2011 2:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Doing it now actually.
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by Travis Hughes on Oct 9, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
O rly?
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by Ben Rothenberg on Oct 9, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why aren’t I listening to it now?
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I’m going to remain pretty uncritical of Homer here. If they knew of the injury, it’s possible they thought he was done but Betts disagreed. Either way, the Flyers didn’t need or want him on the roster at that point, so waiving him makes sense for multiple reasons (give him a chance to play elsewhere and contract limit). If the injury was minor and he could recover, maybe they weighed a not-100% Betts against young defensive talent and not unreasonably rolled the dice.
Either way, waiving him and getting him back doesn’t handcuff him any more than before. If he wanted to get Couturier in the lineup, he always had to clear a contract. Personally, I wanted Homer to wait until game five or six to waive Betts in the first place; the only difference between my preferred position and the current one is that mine would fuck us over even more should Betts have failed his physical around game eight or nine.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
All of that I agree with. Why does it hurt the team if he comes back? Wouldn’t be in the same position either case, in ADK?
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Yes, and Homer may have “bought” himself a few days as well, a shrewd move if that’s what Homer was trying (not that we’ll probably ever know). Further, as Snevik pointed out, he did it at the correct time if that’s what he was going for, not running into a situation where it was right when he needed to make a decision on Cooter. With all of the BS we see from the FO, whether it’s Talblot’s contract snafu, the Hyka issue, you just see more and more questions, not reasons for trust.
And trust is what you now don’t have with Betts, should he have to remain a Flyer; whether it be for the good of the team due to his small cap hit, or the decision to send Cooter down and need a defensive center.
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Agreed on all counts.
I think it’s just weird that they waived him basically with the hopes that that’s how they’d clear a contract, when basically knowing that he’d be coming back with an injury. Just seems like a fruitless exercise… one that clearly communicates to a guy that’s done nothing but good things for you that he’s essentially worthless to you.
Or, they didn’t know, and that’s even worse.
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by Travis Hughes on Oct 9, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. So glad you said exactly what I was thinking.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
So is Betts returned to the NHL roster, or is it treated as if he passed through waivers and he may be assigned to the Phantoms?
This team will be the death of me.
!!!!!
So if we technically have Betts again. . . . How long does Homer have to comply with the contract limit!
They are still okay with contracts as long as they return Couturier after his 10 game. If they want to keep him longer then they would need to shred a contract. Couturier contract is able to slide if he is returned.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
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Close. They are okay with contracts as long as they return Couturier after his 10th game. But his contract only slides if he is returned after his 9th game.
Pending a secret agreement between the NHL and NHLPA saying that the CBA doesn’t mean what it clearly says.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Saw this coming. I can’t stand people who think they know more then the Flyer’s Front Office.
by BannedStreetBully on Oct 9, 2011 4:03 PM EDT reply actions
So the Flyers waived a guy who was injured, in a shrewd move showing they know more than us, when no team can claim him because he’s injured, which the Flyers either knew and ignored, or didn’t know.
Seriously, all those people who assumed the Flyers wouldn’t waive an injured guy who wouldn’t pass a physical are clearly less knowledgeable than the Front Office who waived an injured guy who wouldn’t pass a physical.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
:)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 10, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope he can stay with us. Betts is a hard worker and he gives his all out there.
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by Flyers_Section_121 on Oct 9, 2011 4:19 PM EDT reply actions
Can somebody explain me the waiver rules regarding the salary cap? lets say we waiver Betts again and he clear waivers, how much of his salary will work against the Flyers cap?
If he clears waivers and is assigned to the Phantoms, he does not count against the cap. If he gets claimed coming back up through re-entry waivers, we’d be on the hook for half of it. If this was a 35+ deal, he count against the cap regardless of waiver status.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
It’s possible that this failed transaction might necessitate the long overdue waiver of Shelley in a desperate attempt to open up another roster spot. Otherwise, Couturier might have to be the one to drop because of the team being over the contract limit. I’d hate that based on his play, but if Betts can come back healthy and Schenn can get ready with the Phantoms, it might not be such a bad deal after all. I fear Betts is more injured than we knew.
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Waiving Shelley doesn’t open up a contract spot, which is what the Flyers need.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
If he gets picked up (laughing hilariously as I type that) it does.
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If we someone pick up shelley they only account for half his salary right? Some team might be tempted
by Anders Jensen on Oct 9, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless, on the off chance, somebody claims him, which that chance is remote. Couturier’s probably going back to juniors.
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Nope, buyouts are only available in June.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 11, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Unless they get rid of a player or let Couturier return to his Q team.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
My guess is Schenn’s a Phantom for 8-10 games, Couturier’s returned to juniors, then Schenn gets promoted. I just wonder if Betts will be healthy enough to go at that point. If he is, he’s a perfect replacement for Rinaldo in the lineup.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
I thought last week this time that was what they are going to do. Now the problem is, will Couturier out play expectations and be forced to stay. I think it is a valid issue so far because he has looked very good. I was saying in training camp that he needs to be returned to his junior team but he is making a case to stay. If he keeps up this level of play I might be for him staying.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
Unfortunately, by signing the maximum level of players, that decision is moot unless the team finds a way to unload a contract. Couturier is officially contract# 51, so they’d have to send him back regardless of his performance at this point. But he can play 9 games.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
This. Is what I suspected all along. But it’s so hard to tell if Homer has a plan.
by Georgia_Flyer on Oct 9, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
His plan involved putting the players in one hat, and possible outcomes in another, then picking.
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Schenn’s contract already counts against the limit. Whether we can fit him in under the cap is an independent concern from the Betts/contract limit situation.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
This.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay they have 51 contracts. I only know the names of like 23 guys. Why can’t they just cut some the other 27 minor league guys? Why is it we only talk about NHL contracts in reference to the 51?
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most of the minors is draft picks or there if we get an injury
by Anders Jensen on Oct 9, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
1) The Flyers can’t unilaterally terminate a contract.
2) Most of those minor league guys aren’t signed to minor league contracts, they are signed to contracts that allow the Flyers to control their rights and bring them up to the big squad, if need be.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I am not 100% sure how a minor league only contract works. If they are on a “one way”
minor league contract how does that work?
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
Depends on the contract. Cooter’s is either Juniors or NHL, can’t play in the AHL.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
I am not talking about Cooter, I am talking about players that are on one way contracts that are on the Phantoms who have only minor league deals.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
A minor league contract is a player employed by the Phantoms and not the Flyers. Wikipedia says everyone on the Phantoms but four guys have NHL contracts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adirondack_Phantoms#Current_roster
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
The two that are blank are also on AHL contracts, but at least they are correctly listed as not being on NHL contracts.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So it’s not just any contract that adds up to the 50. Its also the type of contract which you can terminate?
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Any player signed to an NHL contract counts against the 50 limit. Brad Phillips – an AHL contract – doesn’t.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You can’t just cut a minor league contract to alleviate the logjam?
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I don’t know if you can terminate an AHL contract (I’m assume not), but the AHL contracts don’t count to contract limit, anyway. Garrett Klotz isn’t harming anyone.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Garrett Klotz isn’t harming anyone.
I’m not sure that’s true, but he’s not affecting the 50-contract limit anyway.
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To clarify what Snevik is trying to say, actual minor league contracts aren’t part of the logjam. The limit is 50 NHL contracts. Players signed to AHL contracts are part of the PHPA, not the NHLPA, and thus are not even subject to the terms and conditions of the NHL CBA. That’s why they’re not permitted to play for the Flyers. Their contract status is completely irrelevant to any problems the Flyers have.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank god you showed up. I’ve been trying to bail out the boat for the past hour.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I literally just opened my browser, I’m sorry you had to take control. But you were doing fine, if that’s any consolation.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
So then what I am asking is there are 27 NHL contracts for guys I have never even heard of, why are we worrying about the guys that can actually play in the NHL? It would be cool to see the list of NHL contracts jamming up the team.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Here ya go: CapGeek – Flyers 50 Reserve List
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Jason Bacashihua and Dan Jancevski are probably the ones that bother me the most. They are career AHLers, so I see no reason why they really needed to be two way NHL contracts. Things would have to be amazingly dire for either one to be called up, we’d be better off having contract slot open and going out to acquire new people if we had a need for a stopgap on the NHL roster.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Bacashihua’s contract mystifies me. With Backlund and Leighton in ADK, you’d think they’d know there was no need to sign another AHL goalie. Unless they thought they’d have a deal for Bob by now. Too many goalies in the organization, now they don’t have enough room to add a contract.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Jancevski’s baffles me. He was signed to be the Phantoms Captain. And he’s terrible.
Why he gets an NHL deal is beyond me. At least with Bacashihua, he’s exempt from re-entry this year. Still, the Flyers wouldn’t use him over Leighton.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
M, we all agree that there are a bunch of guys on there who we’d be happy to see go. But the team can’t just terminate them — they need someone to take the contract off their hands.
If they can trade Blake Kessel for a 5th round pick, then great. Otherwise, they might have to trade Bacashuihua plus a 5th round pick for a 7th round pick, or something similar.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I would like to keep Kessel. I don’t know if you were using that as an example but I would much rather get a bag of pucks for Bacashuihua.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
Easy with the practice net that might be pushing it. I would like to see Kalinski out of here too.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
And he can fly
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
I would like to keep Kessel.
Well yeah, that’s the point.
If you want to get a pick for a player, it has to be a player that someone else would want. If you just want someone to do you a favor by taking a guy like Bacashuihua, you’re going to have to pay them to do it.
You think you hear bitching around here now, wait until they trade Bacashuihua and a 5th for a 7th.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I make the trade all day:)
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
But that 7th could be Hyka…nevermind, there will be a goon available.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Oct 9, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
thats okay cause in his post we get the 7th for a 5th and Bacashuihua.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
Ahh, misread 5th for 7th
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Oct 9, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I unerstand that but what happens if you cut a guy in the AHL does his NHL side of the contract go toward the cap or his AHL. I am imagining it would be his NHL.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
You can’t “cut” anyone with an NHL contract. Most of the Phantoms have NHL contracts that stipulate what they’ll be paid in case they get called up to the show. Essentially, any Phantom without an NHL contract is being paid by the Phantoms to fill the roster, with the only upside being that if they play well enough, maybe an NHL team will get them a contract.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
What I mean by ‘cut" is to buyout. Wow I didn’t realize you have to be so exact with your wording around here.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
You can’t buyout anyone during the season.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Question
So what exactly happened with Lukas Krajicek that his contract could be terminated during the season (http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2010/1/30/1285120/depth-defenseman-lukas-krajicek)?
Because he “walked away”? I’m not disagreeing with you, just curious what the distinction is.
If the player refuses to report for assignment, you can terminate the contract. I think some people discussed this in the Joonas thread from earlier this offseason, where the Flyers and their European prospect agreed to end a contract, since he wasn’t coming back to North America anyway (i.e. the Flyers would have been able to terminate him when he failed to report, so he agreed to just kill the contract so the Flyers could manuever right away).
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
This. As we talked about over the summer, it’s basically breach of contract in a somewhat amicable form. They assigned him to the AHL, he refused to report, thus violating his contract. Because he failed to honor his contract, the Bolts were able to terminate him. The Bolts had to actively choose to terminate him though, because if the team doesn’t want to get rid of the contract they can just suspend the player instead (see Nabokov & the Isles).
This requires there to be a player on our contract list who actually wants out bad enough to walk away from their contract and also from their paycheck. For a minor league guy, doing that means there’s a good chance you’re giving up on your dream of playing in the NHL; Lehtivuori had already decided that wasn’t really his dream anymore. I think there’s a reason it’s not a very common occurrence for players to walk away in such a manner.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Isnt a getting paycheck in the AHL alot more then what these players can get in a normal job?
by Anders Jensen on Oct 9, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of them have an AHL salary between 60K and 70K, so I’d agree with that.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess most of what I am saying is pointless because they probably will not just terminate a contract. They are going to have to hope for waivers or make a trade if they want Couturier up the whole season with Betts on the team.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
I don’t know whether to laugh or hit my head on my desk.
When people were assuming he wasn’t going to stay with the Flyers because he was injured; I didn’t feel it was necessary to bring up and harp on the fact that you can’t waive a player with an injury and have him get claimed, because the claiming team can refuse to accept him. I thought that was pretty common knowledge, it isn’t a new thing that just appeared in this CBA, it’s been around a while. And we’ve seen issues recently with teams taking ownership of injured players (exhibit A is the Kings/Oilers squabbling). Even when I was angry, it seems I still managed to give the Flyers too much credit.
And if this comes down to the idea that our medical staff cleared him when he never should have been cleared, it just adds to the pile of questionable things that have happened in that department. Oy.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
So really he is not even eligible to be waived anyway. He goes on LTIR then.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Well, Bettman pointed out that both teams acted in good faith. Maybe Betts and/or the Flyers thought he would “physically fit at the time the claim is made,” and he hadn’t recovered enough to pass the physical. The injury is not necessarily LTIR-eligible, because it could still be temporary.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
That’s were I think they would have a case to say if he can’t get claimed then he goes on LTIR until they get things under control.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Right, there’s no requirement that it has to be a debilitating condition that will require him to miss a month in order for Montreal to void the claim. But I doubt Montreal would have claimed him for a laugh, they must have wanted him and then felt slighted that he wasn’t ready to play right away.
But if it turns out that our medical team’s definition of healthy differs greatly from what other teams consider healthy, that could be cause for concern.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
But I doubt Montreal would have claimed him for a laugh, they must have wanted him and then felt slighted that he wasn’t ready to play right away.
OR maybe, just maybe, the Montreal FO is as fallible as the Philadelphia FO, and they claimed him and then realised he might not fit in their team and therefore used the health issue as an excuse to get rid of him, which ended up being a lucky escape for their incompetent FO.
Just saying, while I can bash the Flyers FO on a lot of things, other teams can have issues too.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, that is a possibility. But if Montreal didn’t know about the injury before claiming him, then they could only have decided to use it as an excuse after the physical was failed (unless they forged the part about him failing the physical, which Bettman could have challenged after looking at the paperwork). If they did know about the injury before the claim, then I think the “both clubs acted in good faith” part becomes suspect (directed at both FOs, not just one). It’s a very messy situation all the way around.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think what PoL is saying is: Montreal claimed him, then realized “crap, he sucks and we don’t want him”, so they faked/exaggerated the failing of the physical.
Unless he’s suggesting Montreal is “fallible” for wanting healthy players on their team.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought I accounted for that one in the parentheses, but your interpretation could be what MTL really thought. It just raises more questions, like why tell the media about him being recommended by Lappy, a pre-emptive measure to make it look like they’ve been duped? I can get on board with the idea that both FOs could be fallible, but I’m just having trouble finding any angle that makes it less of a big mess.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not quite. I speculated (and that’s all we’re doing here) that Betts’ lower body injury is minor and he could return to playing NHL hockey soon, but it is sufficient grounds to deem a waiver claim null and void if the receiving team chooses. Montreal could have kept him and let him recover from the lower body injury, but may have not thought he would be a great fit on their team (as is the case with many unanticipated waiver pickups), and so said that in light of Betts’ ongoing injury concerns they can send him back.
In other words, Montreal wanted to retract their waiver claim and found a good way of doing so via the physical results.
If Montreal really wanted to keep Betts for the season and the injury is day-to-day, then they wouldn’t want to send him back to Philly and risk Philly keeping him or Betts going to another team on waivers.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, that makes more sense.
I disagree that Montreal would suddenly wish to retract a waiver claim, but that’s just splitting hairs on whether Montreal rejected him primarily because he failed his physical (he’s hurt) or primarily because they don’t want him.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe Montreal’s front office made a mistake! We can’t be the only FO to keep making mistakes here ;-)
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If Betts is playing tough assignments on the Flyers in two weeks time I will maintain that Montreal were stupid to send him back on the basis of a minor injury when they could have had such a good defensive forward for free.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Made a mistake by clicking “Yes” instead of “No” when asked “Are you sure you wish to make this claim?”
I’m not sure what mistake you’re saying they might possibly have made.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Hastily picking up a player that they don’t need due to the temptation of getting him for nothing?
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I’d speculate that it’s the other way around, and that they picked him up because they felt they needed him right away, then sent him back because they don’t feel like waiting two weeks or so for him to be able to play. But I don’t know any more that you do, so I’m just throwing out ideas too.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
This makes more sense than a trigger happy GM who doesn’t know his team’s needs.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
And nowhere do I suggest that they faked the physical. Betts did not pass the physical. Montreal then had the choice to keep him and let him recover (wouldn’t have taken long by all accounts) or return him. They chose to return him. Why? Were they unhappy that they wouldn’t have Betts for a week so they got rid of him for the year? Or were they thinking, you know, maybe we don’t need Betts….
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, I know. But now, people are going to say “See, all you Holmgren haters? He waived him because he was injured. How smart!”
I want to bang my head against my hand.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought that was pretty common knowledge, it isn’t a new thing that just appeared in this CBA,
I did think this, and asked about this in one of the earlier Betts threads, but just said “DG can you help” or something like this. Should have used the DG signal. :-((
Astaire and Rogers, G and Jagr
Hunter Pence did not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither did Carlos Beltran.
Sorry. There were a lot of comments in all those threads, and I won’t deny that I was all worked up and irrational which probably made it easier for me to miss your call for help.
I haven’t seen the DG signal used in about two months; nobody’s used it since I put the link to it into my profile. I thought that would make it easier to find, but it seems people forgot about it instead.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re usually around, haven’t seen a need recently
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
Haha, I think I’ve been around a lot because I was on high alert after the Hyka situation. And I’ve been so focued on answering questions the FAQ has suffered greatly (but it’s coming back soon, I swear)
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So Homer, I apologize
See, I thought you were incompetent. But, actually, you’re a slimeball , foisting off injured players to other teams, knowing that by the time they figure it out, you’ll have Lappy on LTIR, and you’ll be closer to figuring out if the Couturier contract will slide. Speaking of Lappy, way to co-opt him into coaxing MTL to take Betts when we knew he could not play! Nicely Machiavellian of you! Chainsaw Al, Ed Snider and Ayn Rand would be proud (oops, should that be Ed “is” proud? Or can we verify that?)
/s. I think.
Astaire and Rogers, G and Jagr
Hunter Pence did not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither did Carlos Beltran.
Where did you see that, out of curiosity? I haven’t seen that thrown around yet.
Unconditional waivers are usually requested prior to terminating a contract. If that’s the intention, they’re supposed to have some grounds for getting rid of the contract before requesting them; such as a pending buyout (but that’s not available during the season), or the player has already failed to honor some clause in his contract. If the player clears those, then the club can proceed with whatever they’re planning to do.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Could it be the Flyers can buyout his contract because they waived him before the season started (im only thinkin out loud)?
by Anders Jensen on Oct 9, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No, buyouts aren’t available during training camp either. It’s a two-week period in June for teams that don’t have any pending arbitration hearings, so the Flyers would have had to buy him out by June 30th.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting. Her article has been updated since being quoted by Puck Daddy…
PD’s version quotes:
But with Betts back in the fold, the Flyers would have 50 contracts, not including 18-year-old Couturier. Should they wish to keep Couturier on the roster for more than 11 games, the Flyers will be forced to make a choice: waive another player and hope he gets picked up by another team, or place Betts on unconditional waivers.But when you follow the link to her article, you get:
But with Betts back in the fold, the Flyers would have 50 contracts, not including 18-year-old Couturier. Should they wish to keep Couturier on the roster for more than 11 games, they will be forced to make some kind of a move.Based on the wording present in the CBA and Standard Player Contract, requesting unconditional waivers alone doesn’t give you the right to terminate the contract, you still have to have grounds to do so on some basis. I’m not sure where the Flyers are planning to go with this.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
What about Scott Hartnell?
Lot of money to be playing on the 3rd line for 11 minutes in a game, think we trade him?
Bullies, Phightins, and Vickerbockers
He’s the logical next one to go. Was probably more logical for him to be pushed out before Mike Richards but let’s not get into that. By the time these forward corps grow and begin dominating together in 2 years or so he will no longer be an impact player, the Flyers would be much better off with someone younger with some potential.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, I think Simmonds can do Hartnell’s job HarderBetterFasterStrongerCheaper and Hartnell is now probably the most expensive 3rd line player in the league, and is a little overpaid.
How could we move him though with his NMC?
Bullies, Phightins, and Vickerbockers
He has an NTC rather than an NMC, so as PursuitofLappyness is referencing below, they can use the same sort of coercion they used on Gagne.
The fact that they got away with it then certainly doesn’t make it right though… I don’t have nearly the attachment to Hartnell that I had to Gags, but in my opinion it’s still a fairly rotten way of doing business.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
And completely goes against the whole “we’re a big family” think they’ve always had.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
Unless they trade him to LA. If they do that then they’re just sending their kid to live with the relatives for a while.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You could always force a player’s hand who has a NTC by saying, “We’ll waive you if you don’t waive your clause.” But, as you mention, that’s a rotten way to do business that will bite you in the future when pursuing future free agents. Besides, how many teams can afford to add $4.2M to their roster right now? Everybody’s pressed up against the cap or not able to spend that much.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
To be honest though I think it’s what’s best for the team, putting together the best team possible is a little more important than one guy’s feelings. I don’t like no-movement clauses because if you don’t fit into a team’s change of plans then why do they owe it to you to not trade you? Things change and if a team wants to move you they’re gonna move you, you’re just making it harder on yourself by having that clause.
Bullies, Phightins, and Vickerbockers
While that may be true, as Brando said above, and others have commented not only about the Gags situation but this year with Riche and Carts, you lose faith with players and their agents. Why should anyone work with your team to get a contract in when they can go someplace else, get as good a deal, and not worry about getting f—ed in a few years? And these are contracts, legally binding agreements, you know?
And don’t think that’s just up to the player, this team gave him that clause ( which many people around here hate, me included). Just another one of the ways the FO has painted themselves into a corner.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
Very true, I guess I just think of our roster movements from too much of a video game-like point of view lol
Bullies, Phightins, and Vickerbockers
Here's a good example,
from different sport , of why being on the up and up, in general, is always a good idea. Agents avoid Peter Angelos, owner of the Orioles, like the plague because of all the deals he has wrecked. The O’s now attract guys towards the end of their careers, injury prone rehab projects or special needs players like Mark Reynolds, the strikeout windmill, which makes it difficult to fill in holes or ladder in your new talent with decent FA acquistions.
When the Baltimore lawyer took control of the team in 1993, it was a year removed from its Camden Yards debut with a stacked roster Angelos allowed former GM Pat Gillick to build. The O’s went on to make the first of two consecutive ALCS appearances just three years later. Then Angelos began his notorious meddling, firing popular manager Davey Johnson, burning through another five managers, killing trades proposed by his GMs and stripping down one of baseball’s proudest franchises. The O’s haven’t finished above .500 in 11 seasons since their last playoff appearance.
He has a No Move Clause in his contract, can’t trade him unless he oks it first. (Someone can correct me if I’m wrong on the exact wording there.)
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
No Trade Clause – so he can be threatened with waivers and a career in the AHL if he doesn’t wave his NMC
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
*waive – not sure why anyone would wave their NTC
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I imagined him holding his contract up as a piece of paper in Homer’s face and going “Remember, you gave me this? It’s going to make trading me difficult”… /s
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be like the scene in Major League where the coach takes his contract and…well, you know.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
Holmgren, until now resolutely facing the window, turned around the faced Hartnell, stony faced.
“Scott. I’m going to let you in on a little secret.”
There was pindrop silence as time momentarily stood still.
“Simon had an NTC too.”
Hartnell’s face changed; his anger morphing into mingled surprise and horror.
“You didn’t….”
“We have our ways Scott”, Holmgren glared back, “and it’s either our way or the AHL for you.”
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
*and faced Hartnell – I really need to begin proofreading.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
There is some joking here, but I posted a fanpost in OTF about Hartnell in June that got meh response. However, there are new rumors being heard in Nashville as well about his return. Also, I can imagine that Hartnell would also love being in Philly West with Richards.
As far as the Preds are concerned, FYI, to put it in context for some of you who are Phils fans, getting Hartnell back in Nashville would be like the Phils getting Werth back in 2014, assuming Jayson would be 2 or 3 years younger than he actually is, with the Nats picking up half his contract (recall that Hartnell’s salary is considerably lower than his cap hit now). He has a rockstar kind of persona in Nashville even now. Hartnell knows this, and given that Nashville is now also a pretty good team, I would guess he would approve a trade to them.
Astaire and Rogers, G and Jagr
Hunter Pence did not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither did Carlos Beltran.
Can’t we just give Walker to the Habs for “futures” instead? Once they claimed Betts they waived Woywitka and lost him to the Rangers. Then Campoli went down w/ an injury in their first game. They seem short on D-men right now.
Well, the fun part is no one knows what is up with Walker. Or did I miss something and he’s playing on the Phantoms?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
If by “for futures” you mean “packaging Walker with a 4th round pick and getting a 2013 7th rounder in return”, then maybe.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I’ve got it…Trade Matt Walker and a 4th round pick for Simon Gagne. Too easy.
/Yzerman’d
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 9, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, in my line of thinking, the “futures” would then never need to be resolved. Kinda like we did w/ Boosh a few years back.
Yeah, I’m just thinking that if 29 teams just passed on Walker for free last week, I doubt anyone will take him for free this week. I think you have to pay someone to take him.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I’m willing to donate any money to that cause.
This station is non-operational
IT'S TEBOW TIME!
On the twitterverse
I know. But the Habs didn’t need d-men last week. This week they do, and for more than a month.
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/08/habs-defense-issues-roll-on-chris-campoli-out-for-months-with-leg-injury/
And they would need to use LTIR to acquire Walker.
Maybe they take Bartulis for free, but I still think Walker at $1.7 million for nearly 2 years is too much for teams to accept.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I hate Lilja’s contract too, so I’m hoping other NHL GM’s agree with me there as well.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but at least he’s only a $735k hit instead of a $1700k hit. The 35+ is the crappy part, but someone who desperately needs a defenseman might be willing to accept that more than they’d accept Walker’s hit.
Bob.
Maybe, but why accept either when you have a $600k guy who doesn’t get paid next year if he’s in the AHL as an option as well?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe if MTL feels desparate? Or even better, maybe Homer can “spin” this:
Homer: I feel bad about shafting you guys
Gauthier: Ees no problem Paul
Homer: No, really, I want to help you out. You need a D-Man. We’re willing to let you have any of your choice, Matt Walker, Lilja, or Bartulis, for just a 5th round draft choice. I know you’re in a bind, but I won’t be greedy, given our situation
Gauthier: I just declined all of theese players. No draft choices.
Homer: OK, Walker for free.
Gauthier: Not sure about that.
Homer: Bartulis for free.
Gauthier: That’s more eenteresting
Homer: Lilja for future considerations. Maybe a tour of your rink someday
Gauthier: OK!!
Astaire and Rogers, G and Jagr
Hunter Pence did not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither did Carlos Beltran.
Haha, I found this especially amusing since a tour of Bell Centre is still on the list of silly touristy things my fiance and I haven’t gotten around to visiting on our many trips to the city so far.
That, and that the Habs taking Lilja off our hands would make me quite happy.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
“The shoulder’s just fine,” Betts told The Gazzette. “I have a lower body injury and the club decided that they wanted to check things out. If it was my decision, I’d be playing but I respect what they’re doing and I hope that I’ll be in the lineup in Winnipeg.”
That’s Betts’ quote from last week in the Gazette. The lower back problem was reported and pre-dates the physical, so we’ll see if that is what they dinged him for.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
So here’s what I don’t get: what if the team that was after Montreal in waiver priority also put in a claim for Betts and would have wanted him despite the injury?
It seems weird that he gets returned to the Flyers if there were other claims on him. Maybe there weren’t, but if there were, shouldn’t those teams get the chase to take him even with the back injury?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I think they should, but that’s me.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d agree, but i think the wording that says the Flyers “request for waivers will be cancelled” is fairly black and white.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Eric was talking about what the CBA says, rather what the rule should be.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 9, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Two ways to read the CBA here, I’d think:
1) The Commissioner determined that a Player is not physically fit at the time the claim is made, and therefore request for Waivers will be canceled.
However, I’m not sure that reading precludes:
2) The Club making the claim may refuse to take an Assignment of such Player’s SPC, but it doesn’t necessarily need to refuse. Similarly, the request for Waivers shall be canceled, but only if a team refuses to take an Assignment of such Player’s SPC for a player the Commissioner has determined is not physically fit.
The literal reading has me leaning towards other teams being able to claim him, but somehow, I doubt this is the case.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
The NHL.com article indicates that Bettman made his decision after reviewing submissions from both teams. So if the commissioner doesn’t get involved until after the claiming team protests the claim after conducting the medical exam, I lean toward the waivers actually getting cancelled and other teams not being able to make a claim.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 9, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know for sure about this but I am pretty sure you have to pass a physical once you are traded. So if Betts can’t pass a Montreal physical I doubt he could pass another team’s physical. Now I am not sure if there is a mandatory physical if you are picked up on waivers. It would make sense for a team to give a physical before they start paying something.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
People need to get a grip. It’s Blair Betts. Not the second coming of Wayne Gretzky. 4th line center that can be replaced. I’m guessing Homer KNEW he was injured.which is why he waved him. I will however say that I’d rather see him in the line up then Shelley or Rinaldo.
I’m guessing Homer KNEW he was injured.which is why he waved him.
So Homer intentionally put an injured guy on waivers, knowing teams would make him pass a physical, but hoping the claiming team was so dumb they wouldn’t notice, and this is a good thing?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 10, 2011 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m guessing Homer KNEW he was injured.which is why he waved him.
As Todd and Geoff said, this would be stupid because, as you can see by what actually happened, when you do this, the player fails the physical and comes right back.
I will however say that I’d rather see him in the line up then Shelley or Rinaldo.
And this is why we were upset about him being waived. Nobody is saying he’s the second coming of Wayne Gretzky. Those are your words, not ours. Stop exaggerating. He may be a replaceable 4th line center (albeit very good on the PK), but he’s better than the 4th line center we replaced him with. That’s the point.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Rinaldo is going to get sent down and Betts will be back in the lineup all is well. Waiving Betts served the purpose of getting to game day so Lappy can be placed on LTIR.
He's not the second coming of Wayne Gretzky?
I've been lied to. I'm going to go cry now.
"Simba needs to sharpen his claws" - Ilya Bryzgalov, on Scott Hartnell
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Oct 10, 2011 11:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
YAYYYY
<3
i’m so happy
even if he probably hates the organization now
Destination for Hartnell
Getting a hair off topic, certainly tangent. But Hartnell came up as possibly a desirable player to move, given the salary and not having as much of a role anymore… Well, how about Dallas? They might need to make the floor again. I had no idea…
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