Brandon Dubinsky on Jody Shelley: "He's a terrible hockey player"
by Travis Hughes on Nov 28, 2011 6:00 PM EST
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PrintIf you missed it the other night, HBO ran a 15-minute preview of their upcoming series Flyers/Rangers 24/7: Road To The NHL Winter Classic, and in that preview, Jody Shelley said of former teammate Brandon Dubinsky:
"Brandon Dubinsky plays like a little weasel. I don't know. He's a guy you like to get at."
You can see it at the six minute mark of the video above. It was awesome, and it almost justifies Shelley's ridiculously out-of-whack salary. Almost. Of course, the entire point is just to get under Dubinsky's skin, and that's exactly what happened today when Dubinsky was asked about Shelley's comments. Via the New York Daily News:
"First of all, if I was him, I'd keep my mouth shut if I don't play, especially since I never see him on the ice," Dubinsky said of Shelley, who has played in only 10 of Philadelphia's 23 games this season. "He's usually just yapping from the bench, and I guess now he's yapping from behind the video camera. So that's about all I have to say."
But that was not all Dubinsky had to say.
"Jody Shelley - it won't be long before he's out of the league, because he's a terrible hockey player," he said.
So what if Dubinsky is 100 percent correct in his assessment? We're probably harder on Shelley around these parts than anybody else that follows the Flyers, but that Dubinsky is letting Shelley's very obvious attempts to get under his skin... you know, actually get under his skin? Well, that's just perfect.
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There’s nothing “wrong” with being paid 1.1 million a year for 2 minutes a game…
I’d just rather be a weasel.
Um, no he isn’t.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 28, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
“Disgraceful” is a pretty strong word. He might be bad at the game and he might be overpaid and he might not deserve his job, but disgraceful is a weeeeeeeeeeeeee bit much.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 28, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it’s just the wrong direction to go when talking about Jody Shelley and his faults. By all accounts, he’s a classy guy in the room. Also, Billy Tibbetts wore a Flyers jersey.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
He has not been anything less then what were the expectations. If you are judging him against top line players and there expectations then I guess you have a point. But I would say like Alexander daigle as a bigger disappointment for what were his expectations. All Shelley is expected to do is skate 5 mins a game and throw punches when asked to or in the right situation. By those expectations he is actually all he is billed to be.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
by MJDII on Nov 28, 2011 7:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well, its hard to nit live up to expectations when all I can think when he’s on the ice is “Fuck, goal against coming up”
Really? I guess some stat person can say whether that has merit or not. But again saying Shelley is an embarrassment to hockey and the biggest loser to wear a sweater is completely misguided.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
by MJDII on Nov 28, 2011 7:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Throwing your head back as if you took a high stick to draw a penalty when it didn’t happen or get drafted 1st overall and be paid tens of millions and not even care enough to give an effort. That is embarrassing. Being willing to fill the role of an NHL enforcer which will most likely lead to the shortening your life is not embarrassing.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
by MJDII on Nov 28, 2011 7:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
He’s not any worse than Cote was, definitely not worse than Riley.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 28, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
So would I, but he’s not nearly as terrible at hockey as Cote. And in terms of percentage of the cap that their salaries take up it is even closer.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 28, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
To not accept his body of work to prove this is simple and not worth arguing.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
by MJDII on Nov 28, 2011 7:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s not how “good” and “bad” work conceptually.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Not sure I get you. But when you are paid to enforce, intimidate and fight, whatever the salary is paid, and you do that, whether you approve of the concept or not, he is not a failure or a disgrace. Don’t hate the player hate the game.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
by MJDII on Nov 28, 2011 7:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
“Worst players.” This is independent of role. Manny Malhotra is one of the best defensive centers in the game, but he isn’t better than Daniel Sedin.
It might be is silly to try and figure out the “best” and “worst” players of any given group, but relative expectations are a completely different discussion.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I don’t think we totally disagree???? I am just saying that Shelley is doing what is expected of him and living up to the realistic expectations of his role, so for people to say he is disgraceful or a loser is just mindless. He was never brought here nor paid to put up scoring stats so to hold him accountable to those expectations is stupid.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Your boy Steve Downie was a lot more of a disgrace to wear the Orange and Black than Shelley.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Jesse Boulerice.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 28, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
One of the only Flyers I didn’t like. Didn’t want him on the team at all, no matter what he supposedly brought.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 28, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Err … depends how you define it.
>http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2011/11/26/2587853/zac-rinaldo-bsc-or-the-next-steve-downie
I’d take Downie – even in his pure homicidal phase – over Shelley. Downie got better, but to paraphrase Ron White, “Ya can’t fix shitty.”
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
I define a disgrace as a guy who head hunts and cheap shots guys and does little else. Which, is what he was doing when he was here.
Shelley, for all his faults, namely, being useless, isn’t out on the ice trying to hurt people.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I will concede that Shelley doesn’t appear to deliberately attempt to injure – which Downie certainly has been accused of (although not recently, you may note). Don’t get me wrong – when the team traded Downie I was also in agreeance that he should go. Now, however, I wish they had hidden him in the minors a bit until he matured into the player he is today, and then called him up. You must admit, today’s Steve Downie is a desirable asset (while Rinaldo is NOT).
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
...
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 28, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Any way we can make Dubinsky’s comment green?
by JpH89 on Nov 28, 2011 6:15 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Ha, this is shaping up to be pretty awesome.
Might as well just hand them over.
by All ur Aces R Belong to Us on Nov 28, 2011 6:20 PM EST reply actions
While Dubinsky may be correct, he’s still a weasely douchebag. I’ve always hated that dipshit.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
by doubleh on Nov 28, 2011 6:43 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
As long as Homer and Lavy are in charge, Dubinsky will be wrong about the “out of the NHL soon” part
samsies!
I’ll never forget that sandbagger dropping to the ice after Richards skated by him as if he was hit in the head. People who think its okay to be a weasel just because you have skills is what’s wrong with this league, sports in general and our society as a whole. No friggin integrity.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
by MJDII on Nov 28, 2011 6:54 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I cant believe people are hoping on Shelley's case about this
I mean, yeah. He’s the least valuable player on the Flyers roster, and there’s four guys who do his job better than him, but really?
Shelley gets bonus points for this shit, I love it.
Dubie is a piece of shit. A better hockey-playing-piece-of-shit, but still.
Mr. Corsi Fenwick, you confuse the hell outta me.
My problem is that you have to earn the right to trash talk, and in my book, Jody Shelley has not earned that right.
Unless somebody can prove to me that his comment has an impact on the Flyers as a hockey team in a game situation, I don’t really care what he says to a camera. If he says it on the ice and goads Dubinsky into a penalty, that’s a different story.
Regardless of whether the right has to be earned, I don’t think he’s talking trash. I think he’s trolling Dubi, perhaps with personal knowledge of his sore spots.
I don’t think it impacts hockey, but it entertains me, which is more than Shelley’s contract was doing for me yesterday.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
That’s basically how I feel about it.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 28, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think it impacts hockey, but it entertains me, which is more than Shelley’s contract was doing for me yesterday.
Agreed, and when all is said and done, that is the reason why sports exist. Entertainment. This is often why I have the most trouble with stats vs. the eye test. While I agree that the stats tell the story better, I’ve yet to see a stat that can show entertainment value. I think that is why people latch on to the players who always look like they are working harder as opposed to players like Carter who put up the numbers, but made it look easy. I can’t knock the guy for having the skill & ability to make it look easy, but at the same time, I’m paying to be entertained.
The same can be said for fighters. I know a lot of people here think it’s dumb, and that there’s no place for it in hockey, but every time there’s a fight the majority of the stadium are on their feet & cheering.
Honestly, if the team won every night without hustle or fighting, I wouldn’t be entertained. I guess it boils down to what people consider entertaining. Winning isn’t everything to me.
Right, but the stats v. eye thing is just a means of determining a player’s worth, so we can make judgment about the best decisions for this team in order to win the Cup. I think the entertainment value of a Flyers Stanley Cup is self-evident.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I’ve never gotten the notion that any good sized portion of people who chat here regularly dis-like fighting or think it has no place in the game. Someone made that comment to me because I was commenting I’d rather see other people in the line up (besides Shelly and maybe Rinaldo) but that was a hockey skill thing. I think that’s what people here mainly talk about, not outlawing fighting, just letting good players play in place of a guy who can only fight.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 29, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not like Shelley has only played 10 games in his career. He’s played over 600 NHL games and accumulated almost 1500 PIMs. I think the guy has at least earned the right to trash talk. Despite his contract and lack of skill, he obviously has earned respect around the league and I think he can chirp Dubinsky through 24/7 if he so chooses.
On what planet has Shelley not earned the right to trash talk? Dude has literally bled for the right for a friggin decade.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
by MJDII on Nov 28, 2011 7:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I guess my reaction stems from the fact that Shelley has done very little to help the Flyers since he came here. I don’t think he has lived up to his enforcer reputation in Philadelphia on the ice, and so his gestures off the ice don’t interest me. So when I see him coming up on HBO’s preview representing the Flyers saying something like that, it just kind of rubbed me the wrong way, that’s all.
I don’t know how to really even quantify living up to his enforcer reputation. According to Hockeyfights.com he was 6-3-3 last year. I honestly don’t know what more people want from him. He was doomed from the start because of his contract, yet I can’t imagine a person in the world who would turn down money if it was offered to them.
I don’t think people dislike Shelley the person. But we want that player waived, and that isn’t going to change unless he has some sort of career renaissance.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 28, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Why on earth would you have a problem with anyone calling a NY Ranger a weasel? And again Shelley has done everything asked of him that he could do. The league has made his role harder to perform with the instigator rule and this coach is a self proclaimed anti-fighting guy. But he is not the failure in the equation.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
everyone knows dubinsky is a weasel… shelley didn’t say, i’m sure richards would have called in from LA to make sure that phrase got on television.
even more weasel-ly is that he couldn’t just laugh it off… he had to put shelley in his place (somewhere between bench, pressbox, and retirement)… I guess he couldn’t say that shelley was also a dipshit with a straight face.
I hope this truly escalates.
I’d love to see these two fight to the pain. it is a win-win for us. shelley will be off the ice for a guaranteed 5min… dubinsky will get punched in the face a few times.
-tim
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood. ~ Daniel H. Burnham
I can get behind this.
Might as well just hand them over.
by All ur Aces R Belong to Us on Nov 28, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
well dip me in shit
Jody Shelley actually made a positive contribution to the Flyers.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Distraction time: you can do whatever the fuck you want in the AHL, because no one is watching you. Your Adirondack Phantoms!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Eoz_MUsAM&feature=youtu.be
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
If the Flyers did that, which 4 would you pick to be in it?
by RogueConvict on Nov 28, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
2nd period, Shelley and rest of fourth line stuck in our zone with the long change… almost 100% guarantee we are getting scored on.
If I started playing ice hockey right now, I could be better than Jody Shelley in 2 weeks
Your sig is funny.
Might as well just hand them over.
by All ur Aces R Belong to Us on Nov 28, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Case in point: (this is the most recent example I can remember)
Chad LaRose goal
http://video.flyers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20112012,2,290&event=PHI281&fr=false
If I started playing ice hockey right now, I could be better than Jody Shelley in 2 weeks
I enjoy this back and forth. Contracts aside, it’ll be a fun game if Shelley does indeed play.
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 28, 2011 8:15 PM EST reply actions
Dubinsky is 1000% correct. I really didn’t appreciate how awful Shelley is until I was at the morning skate and they were doing 2-on-0 drills and he got paired with Danny Briere. Was like watching a race between an Acela and a drunk basset hound.
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/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 28, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Briere was drunk???
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Hey Dubie
You have 1 goal this year. Maybe you should focus a little more on your “giant” role with the Rangers rather than jabbering with, of all people, Jody Shelley. I mean seriously Brandon the guy plays 4 minutes a game and has 2 girl names…
Should make for some damn good hbo tho hahahaha
by kckrebs on Nov 28, 2011 8:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions
holy crap only 1 goal…
i’d quickly take the bet that shelley would have at least 2 goals if he averaged 18:39 TOI per game
-tim
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood. ~ Daniel H. Burnham
by edesjardins37 on Nov 28, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
I know i’m not an extremely active member here and i might have no place in saying this, but i think some of you are being a little mean. and the first thing i thought of was this article from a few months back.
And i just feel like people needed to be reminded.
personally, i like jody shelley. He seems like a great guy and a great teammate that’s there for everyone and does the best he can. is that so bad?
by ForTheLoveOfBob on Nov 28, 2011 9:10 PM EST reply actions
When I listened to Shelley talk on the HBO preview I remember feeling like a bit of a dick for taking easy shots at the guy, in order to contribute to the BSH repartee. I think most of the anti-Shelley talk here is actually directed at the decision makers for playing/keeping/overvaluing him, or in response to commenters who also value Shelley.
And I think some of that opinion is even more generalized, about the kind of role Shelley has and how that role might be sliding into extinction.
In any case, it’s great how all it takes is someone like Dubinsky to cause at least some closing of ranks.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 28, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think most of the anti-Shelley talk here is actually directed at the decision makers for playing/keeping/overvaluing him, or in response to commenters who also value Shelley.
Such talk very easily slides over into talk directed at the player. Same deal with Bryzgalov. People (Flyers fans I’m talking about here) like to make fun of Bryz and how crap he’s playing and when you try to talk to them about it they say their anger is more directed at management for offering that contract in the first place. When someone’s got a bad contract then obviously the target of your annoyance should be management but too often that translates into making the player a running joke because they’re overpaid. Which the player inherently doesn’t really deserve to hear coming from fans.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 28, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Unless the player in question coughsBryzcoughs is also playing bad, or at least not to his potential, then all bets are off.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 28, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Right but I can’t stand the “9 more years of this” comments whenever Bryz coughs up a bad goal, like he’s actually a bad goalie. The target of the 9 more years comments should be management; but they often end up targetting Bryzgalov’s skill as a goaltender. Same deal with the comments that I’ve heard on occassion about Bryzgalov being an absolute “nutcase” or otherwise instable in some way. That’s pretty mean. And the people that say those things wouldn’t be saying that if we signed him to a contract they didn’t like.
I’m not pretending I’m not guilty of any of these things. But when players get contracts larger than they deserve, it seems fans take joy out of needlessly trying to shoot them down.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 28, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, but I’m not sure how much of it is “joy” though. It’s frustration, and in the heat of the moment it’s relying a bit too much on the angels of our better nature to reasonably apportion blame between labor and management, especially when being an ardent fan is more irrational than not.
Stepping back a bit, too, this is a conversation we’re having among ourselves. Our comments, taken in whole, say something about us as people (or at least online personae), and it does contribute to the general tone of the blog and that matters, but I don’t see any of it having an impact on either Bryzgalov or Shelley or any other players (or in the front office). I figure if I spend most of my time here being rational and try contribute, if I fire off a few gratuitous shots that may be unfair I’m being a good fan and a good blog citizen.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 28, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
it seems fans take joy out of needlessly trying to shoot them down.
Two words: Coping Mechanism
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 28, 2011 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not so sure the comments target Bryzgalov’s skill as much as you perceive them to. Afterall, simply saying “9 more years” is quite vague since it doesn’t identify the target of the sarcasm.
Since the comment you bring up specifically mentions the length of the contract, I can’t read that to mean anything other than deriding those responsible for the contract.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 28, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
It’s in the context of him giving up a bad goal. He gives up a bad goal and someone says “9 more years” implying that we have to deal with 9 more years of crappy goaltending and bad goals.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 28, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
I see what you’re saying, but they still said “9 more years” not “another bad goal” or “man, that was a horrible goal” or “I thought we got rid of Brian Boucher?” or any variation.
There are many ways to comment on a bad goal. There are many ways to call someone bad at hockey. Sarcastically reminding people how many years are left on his deal avoids all personal references to the point where they purposefully went out of their way to comment on the contract and not the goalie.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 28, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think that depends on who is making the statement to an extent, and how exacting they are with language. If you see what you think is a bad goal and make that comment, what I hear is you pointing out the fact that he just let in a bad goal, and inferring and we have 9 more years to watch him let more bad goals in. So to my ears, that is a dig at the goalie, as well as the guy who signed him to the contact. Now if you’re having a discussion about players and say we’ve got him for 9 more years in a derogatory way, then I would say it is completely about the contact/management.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 28, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe...
Although they could be pointing out that all goalies let in bad goals, and that giving a goalie 5.8 million dollars for 9 years is incredibly stupid given the relatively small difference the goalie makes in comparison to the the other ways that money could be invested.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 28, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think that depends on who is making the statement to an extent, and how exacting they are with language.
If you amended this to read: “I think that depends on both who is making the statement and who is interpreting the statement to an extent, and how exactly they are with language”, I’d agree.
But reminding people of the contract – “9 more years” – even in reference to a bad goal is still avoiding any comment on the skill of the player. I’m not convinced it is the speaker who is mixing up the insults between player and management in this situation, since the speaker is simply using an event (a bad goal) to complain about the contract.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 28, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I was thinking along those lines while typing, just didn’t get quite that involved in the sentence (lawyer’d?). Just pointing out that if you are having a conversation about the team in general, I would take that as contract bashing, but right after the guy lets in a weak one, I have to believe it’s both.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 29, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah. No worries.
We disagree. It happens :)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed it very much does depend on who is interpreting the statement (especially on the Internet). I’ve heard people (not on BSH mind you) complain that Bryz is simply a bad goaltender who was overrated in Phoenix so my interpretation is probably tinted a little by annoyance at those sort of comments.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
Well I do think he was overrated in PHX. But definitely not a bad goalie.
Marty Brodeur is “overrated” and he is a great goalie.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 29, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
This. And along the lines of what POL is saying, many people have claimed that Bryz carried Phoenix, put hockey on the map there, and is the only reason they made the playoffs.
Bryz helped, but I think Dave Tippett deserves 3 times as much credit as Bryz does. The backup goalies’ save percentages while Bryz was there, Mike Smith this year, and the team’s FenwickTied numbers all show it wasn’t Bryz.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
Agree with you there too. It’s basically two ends of a spectrum. The truth about Bryz lies somewhere in the middle. Both extremes should be avoided.
On a complete off topic side note: you mention a coach’s system and/or the defensive personnel in front of that goalie being a large influence on a goalie’s save %. Considering we use ES Save % as our main statistical indicator of an individual goalie’s play, I’ve always wondered how much other team variables can impact on that figure, and therefore how useful that stat is as an individual measure of a goalie’s skill and whether that stat is transferable when a goalie moves between teams (if you sorta get what I’m saying). Has there been any work done on that? It would be hard, I imagine, to look at coaching systems and see if they impact on save percentages.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say it’s a large influence, but Gabe has done work looking at expected save percentage in Minnesota and looking at expected save percentage above league average for coaches, but it isn’t very in depth.
For dense work, check here (team effects on even strength save percentage), and then click all the fancy links provided in that story.
As far as ESS%, it’s absolutely weak. There is no good way to evaluate goaltenders right now, but ESS% shows the highest correlation from year-to-year. That’s why it’s used, but it needs to be improved upon.
I’d love to see more work done on coaching systems’ impact on save percentage, though.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
I really don’t think anybody dislikes Shelley the guy or teammate. In fact, if his contract weren’t so bad(league minimum) I doubt he’d really even be vilified all that much with the exception of when we give away a good player like Nodl.
Personally I like the person, but can’t stand the player and abhor the contract.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 28, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
If he was making league minimum, he would basically be Riley Cote. Who nobody hated.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 28, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Is Shelley’s wife hot? Then he ain’t Riley Cote. That was one of his big selling points in my book.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Nope.
And it’s not so bad to complain about his skill level, role, or contract either. The guy is very likable, the 3 things I brought up aren’t. As long as I pay for season tickets, a cable subscription to watch games, or any NHL products, I will continue to complain about what I feel like complaining about. Life isn’t grade school, not everyone gets a participation medal, and there are people who are inherently mean in the world; unfortunately a lot of that cruelness in the world is far worse than making a joke about Shelley.
Dubinsky, if you insist on being a weasel, could you at least be a more intelligent weasel?
"He’s usually just yapping from the bench, and I guess now he’s yapping from behind the video camera.
No, dipshit, he’s yapping in front of the video camera.
by mtitanic on Nov 28, 2011 10:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
and usually yapping from the pressbox…???
-tim
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood. ~ Daniel H. Burnham
by edesjardins37 on Nov 29, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
That is a luxury club sweet fool. Shelley yaps in style, probably gets free nachos too.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
And FWIW...
darenmillard Doing the oilers/predators game @RealKyper told by an nhl exec that ducks r shopping bobby ryan. Wow. 2 wins in 18.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
9 first round picks for him!
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 28, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
buy buy buy!!!
-tim
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood. ~ Daniel H. Burnham
by edesjardins37 on Nov 29, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Everybody else is buying.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 29, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
So the Flyers wouldn’t have any 1st rnd picks till what, 2056?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 29, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Well smart ass, we should be trading all of our picks because the world ends in 2012.
People say Holmgren has no foresight, welp, he has the foresight to know that draft picks will have little value after the apocalypse.
So, HA! Ha, I say to you! HAAAAA!
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 29, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
I thought the apocalypse was only coming after the Cubs won a WS…
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
That’ll happen in OCT of 2012.
With a roster like that winning the WS it will erase all doubt.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 29, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Nooooow I know why we signed Voracek and Jagr to one year deals and couldn’t afford to send Couturier back to juniors…lucky we’re playing in the last Winter Classic ever!
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Now you get it. Why trade Nodl for a draft pick when that draft may not ever happen and even if it does that player won’t play in a meaningful year?
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 29, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly. And luckily we’ve got two star centers who are amongst the best players in the league and are around 26 years old and right in their prime!
Wait what…shit Homer you even failed at preparing for the apocalypse…
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Trade Carter for Ryan straight up!
Oh. Damn.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
I drove through Columbus recently. Description: Meh
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 29, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
Probably watching tapes of Nail Yakupov to be well prepared for his new winger next season.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Picked up a few goals.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 29, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
3 in total now.
Although none of them were in the third period in a clutch situation. Classic Jeffie.
/sarcasm on the last line btw
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, all those useless goals, who needs those?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 29, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
I do. Jeff Carter is my #1 center in fantasy. And I need Brayden Schenn to stop getting hurt and playing in the minors, and more ice time for Couturier. Yeah, my fantasy centers are Carter and two rookies and a kid (possible also a rookie) from Nashville.
I <3 our rookies.
by LeepinLizardz on Nov 29, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
I think it’s a good thing that while I would still do the Carter for Ryan swap. I wouldn’t do a Couturier and Voracek for Ryan swap. Would hate Homer if he tried that.
I’m not saying that’s right. It just means I can sleep easier at night until someone proves me wrong.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
http://eye-on-hockey.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/27694626/33574188
Dubie also gets into Rinaldo apparently … but he sure ain’t wrong. Truth hurts sometimes, kiddies.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
I’d actually argue that Rinaldo has been effective at it so far.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
And the evidence would be … the fact that Dubinsky felt the need to comment on him. Precisely. Schrodinger’s cat.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
And the evidence would be…he’s drawn a lot of penalties. I was talking about general skin-getting-under, not Rangers specific. The one game sample size against the Rangers against them doesn’t do much for me either way.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
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