Andreas Nodl claimed on waivers by Carolina Hurricanes
The Carolina Hurricanes announced at 12 p.m. ET today that they have claimed Andreas Nodl off waivers from the Philadelphia Flyers. Paul Holmgren said yesterday that placing Nodl on waivers was to "gauge interest" in him around the league.
Well, there's your interest.
The Flyers just lost a player for absolutely nothing, and it's kind of hard to understand why. Sure, Nodl hadn't been playing all that great or all that much lately, and a lot of that probably had to do with his role being overshadowed by guys like Harry Zolnierczyk, Sean Couturier and Zac Rinaldo. And sure, they do pick up $845,000 in cap space with the claim.
In the long run, Nodl wasn't really a huge piece on this team. He was last year, when he played a huge defensive role alongside Mike Richards, but things have changed this year. Peter Laviolette is spreading around tough defensive minutes, thus marginalizing the need for a guy like Nodl.
He's not the difference between a Stanley Cup and a not-Stanley Cup. But he was still a piece on the team that had value, and that's why this is so strange. It's something the Flyers tend to do quite a bit, this whole minimizing the impact of their depth thing.
Consider the way the waiver system works. The lower you are in the NHL standings, the higher chance you have of picking up a player on waivers. It's based on the percentage of possible points you have, and the lower you are, the higher you are on the list. Only the Islanders, Anaheim and Columbus have a lower points percentage than the Hurricanes, which means Nodl didn't fall very far on the list.
This is why you don't "gauge interest" in a player by placing them on waivers. He very obviously could have been had via trade -- even if just for a pick or something -- if Holmgren and Co. just did his homework on this. If it's cap space you want, get a pick for him. Something is better than nothing.
Instead, he's gone for nothing, and a little piece of the Flyers' forward depth is gone with it. It's not an Earth shattering tragedy or anything, especially because Nodl is a good dude who can play but just fell out of favor here, and hopefully he'll get a great chance in Carolina. But it's still one of those moves that makes you scratch your head.
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Good for Nodl. I hope he get’s a chance to really be used properly in Carolina.
I agree Travis, in a vacuum, losing Nodl isn’t anything to get worked up over. But the way it happened, the fact that it could have been done differently, a way that would have brought something back to the team and the fact that it is part of an overall pattern of ignorance and disregard for smart business is what makes this so infuriating.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Yup.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
I just think Nodls role on the team changed into something he couldn’t play. His spot was definitely given to guys like Read, Talbot, Harry Z, and Couturier.
I agree. And that isn’t my issue. It’s that they got nothing for him when they could have gotten something. And even if they couldn’t have gotten something, it wasn’t because they did what they could to actually find that out.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Is a 7th round pick something worth bitching about. We would just end up drafting another goon which would lead to more bitching. And when that goon makes the team over some smaller more skilled player that would lead to even more bithching. Looking at it that way letting Nodl walk prevents at least 2 more bitch and complain threads from being posted.
Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011
We would just end up drafting another goon which would lead to more bitching
No, we buy our goons at mark up prices in free agency.
We draft plenty of them too, espeically in the 7th round like Derek Mathers.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/derek_mathers
Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011
Instead of Hyka
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 29, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
If it weren’t for bitching , this blog would just fade away.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Probably not, unless they would have hired somebody to read the right part of the CBA between picks… their flawed logic might have lead them to pick a different player off their list.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 29, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
I still question if we could have got anything for him. Remember when we traded Gagne? We got a 4th rounder and a horrible defensman. When you have a player that is obviously not fitting in other GMs understand that position and are in no hurry to give up picks, ecspecially when you’re talking about a 4th liner.
Also, is there someone that has all of homers phones tapped? Point being how does everyone know he didn’t try to find a trade? Just because he didn’t get moved, means he didn’t try? Thinking about Homer and another GMs conversation about what the return for nodl would be actually makes me giggle. I mean what are we seriously hoping for a 7th rounder/Derek Mathers? Quit crying over spilled milk and just hope Homer has an idea for that last roster spot, hopefully a Dman, cuz we all know how he likes to ride the contract limit. Something is in the works fellas, let it play out for a minute or 2…
by kckrebs on Nov 29, 2011 1:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Remember when they traded Darroll Powe for a third round pick?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Do you remember when that happened? After a successful 81 game campaign and in the offseason. Huge difference when you’re trying to dump a guy 22 games into the season, come on you know this…
by kckrebs on Nov 29, 2011 1:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And yet you apparently don’t, since your example of Gagne came after he scored 9 goals in 12 playoff games and in the offseason.
But I guess my example can’t match yours.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
True. But Gagnes contract had more to do with that trade than anything imo. We wanted to dump salary so we had to take a bad contract back. This was nowhere near the case with Powe. 2 completly different players under totally different circumstances. Had we not got a good offer for Powe we would have just kept him no problem, the same cannot be said for Gagne.
by kckrebs on Nov 29, 2011 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So when you have a good player for cheap, you can either get a good return or keep him no problem. Hmm, seems like Powe and Nodl are a lot closer comparison than Powe and Gagne.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Geoff,
I think that kckrebs has made some really good points here. I know it interferes with the ongoing narrative some people have of trumpeting every move that Homer makes as another milestone in his history of blunders. For all we know he tried to make a trade and couldn’t find a dance partner. Of course it is possible that they simply tried to waive him and cross their fingers, but the fact remains that none of us know the truth of the matter.
He is right in pointing out the difference between off-season and in-season moves. You are right in pointing out that we don’t know what Holmgren did.
What we do know:
Paul Holmgren said he put Nodl on waivers to “gauge interest”.
Only three teams were offered Nodl for nothing and passed.
Using those two facts, it is definitely possible that Holmgren tried to trade Nodl and found no partners. But when did he try to do that? If the argument is that teams won’t trade for someone when they know the Flyers will put them on waivers for free, then the problem goes back to: Why were they at 50 contracts in the first place?
We can debate the size of the blunder, but it’s still a blunder.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Well I do have to agree that stating that putting someone on waivers is to “gauge interest” is one of the dumbest comments possible. One thing I know about Homer is that his hockey IQ is a lot higher than his verbal IQ.
I also agree completely that getting us to 50 contracts and into this bind wasn’t the smartest. I realize I’m in the minority, but I don’t think the Walker/Bartulis question is as cut and dry as everyone thinks it is. I like Oskars and I think he was playing some of his best hockey last year, but the truth is, that he is not a physically strong defenseman. I believe that what they were hoping for with Walker is a down and dirty tough minutes guy who would play with a lot of grit, and like it or not, they just do not believe that Bartulis is that guy. We can all argue about whether or not they were on crack when they thought that Walker is, but I think that decision was driven by what they want in that position, not the difference in contract size.
Sure, I can buy that. But the complaint about Walker/Bartulis is that they had Lilja to be that guy. They picked Walker as the 7th defenseman over Bartulis, where the skill v. contract becomes much more important. Add in the lack of foresight for what picking Walker meant down the road, and you have the complaint.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I guess with the Flyers they have tended in the past to lean towards “grit” over general skills, often to the extreme. Now that they seem to have thrown out all the rules and have found that skill and youth can actually work, maybe they will start to rethink some of these decisions.
Eh, I like that they enjoy youth, but they still prefer grit over general skills.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Only three teams were offered Nodl for nothing and passed.
Three teams out of four. You don’t know how the other 25 teams responded and we will never know. Nitpicking here though.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
Right. I don’t see how I said anything different, but okay.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
“Also, is there someone that has all of homers phones tapped?” Katchis – don’t ask anything more about this and you won’t get hurt.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Hahaha… wut iz dis?
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
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I completely agree that there is a big assumption being made that Homer didn’t try. It’s arising from Homer saying he waived Nodl to gauge interest (which sounds idiotic) and from his past history of not looking ahead very far. But it’s still an assumption.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Understandable. But what should his statement have been? I just can’t think of one that wouldn’t have got him in trouble with you all. I don’t think the truth would have been the smartest thing there…" We waived nodl because he isn’t playing all that well and we have rookies that are taking over for the role we had for him." To me “guage interest” was just another way of saying is there anyone out that that wants this guy, we just don’t have the need for him anymore.
by kckrebs on Nov 29, 2011 2:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
“We have 15 forwards and 6 D right now, so a move had to be made. We’re really excited about how the young guys are playing, so something’s going to have to give. What we actually do will depend on how some things go in the next few days, but we felt we needed to try to get Nodl through waivers right now to open up certain options.”
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
You mean like when he said:
“I don’t know what will happen," Holmgren said. "Obviously, he’s available now. Roster decisions will be made tomorrow. At noon tomorrow we’ll know if they cleared. I wouldn’t read into who’s on waivers. We need to make decisions tomorrow."
Nice non-answer saying how they’re setting up for the future.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
So maybe Nodl was put on waivers because he would be picked up for nothing and free up a roster spot whereas Shelly probably wouldn’t. And you are right the 50 contract limit is what caused the problem here.
But in reality since I am Paul Holmgren and Don conceded the bet there was really no need to have him around on the roster anymore hence I put him on waivers.
Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011
Do it! Movember is almost over!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Follow Holmgren’s example and give away valuable things for nothing in return! Except this is better because you’re giving to an actual charity and not the Carolina Hurricanes!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
C’mon – is there really that much difference?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Movember is tax deductible?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
perhaps – but ’Canes season tickets are!
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Or God forbid we play him on the 4th line giving the 8th overall pick somebody decent on his wing. I guess we’ll know why Homer did this if a trade is in the works, but his continued roster and cap mismanagement is truly baffling.
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Yeah, this is why I assume there’s a move for a defenseman in the works. It’s even worse to imagine that they gave Nodl away because they’d rather have Shelley and Rinaldo and HarryZ in the lineup and no Nodl than to put one of those guys in the AHL to preserve the team’s depth.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Just for the sake of devil’s advocate, how do we know Homer didn’t try to trade him, and no team would bite? Granted, considering the source it’s unlikely, but we don’t know that it didn’t happen. He could have called around, nobody would offer anything, and he wanted to clear out some cap/contract space, so he went with plan B.
I would have no problem with this if there is a trade in the works, but the fact remains that they ended up losing him because of all the unnecessary contracts they gave out to handcuff the team against the limit.
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It’s certainly possible, but it would make the “to gauge interest” comment even more surreally bizarre than it already is.
Bob.
by The Dark on Nov 29, 2011 2:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe he meant BSH interest.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 29, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
In related news Geoff and I will be stalking making a road trip to catch a couple of our favorite Canes.
There is a game down there in mid-January vs the Flyers… /whistles
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
What happened to your car that time?
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
A random flying mud flap on the highway destroyed the fender on the way up to Glens Falls, and then I got rear ended at a red light on the way home.
Rear end——- oh. Oh gosh, your poor car. Poor you.
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Thank god.
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
haha, works for me. That’d be a fun trip. How is your car anyway?
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Never go up to the Bell Center… I almost got hit 6 times on the way through Montreal, including getting cut off only to have the car that cut me off get smashed by a tractor trailer right in front of me.
My initial response was, "I hate you so much right now" but I changed it.
by DLJr on Oct 19, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
I actually love driving in Montreal and have done it a ton (dated a girl who went to McGill for an extended period of time). I like driving around aggressive drivers.
I suggest you move to Mexico City…or Boston. One’s a third world country and the other isn’t, but you’d be hard-pressed to find the difference.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
MTL is way worse for dangerous driving than Boston… for someone that lives exactly halfway between the two of them, take my word for it.
My Philly brain explains it as thus. Montreal Drivers check there blind spots like Massholes, cut you off like people in Jersey, and try to maintain high speeds like dicks from Maryland.
My initial response was, "I hate you so much right now" but I changed it.
by DLJr on Oct 19, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
try to maintain high speeds like dicks from Maryland
I do like to go fast. But unfortunately it doesn’t describe all MD drivers. I’d love to get rid of the morons who go 40 MPH in the far left lane on the interstate. That would help a lot.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Frankly, my experience with MD drivers was they all have what I call ‘automatic disease’. They speed way up, and then coast back to 55, then speed way up again in an endless cycle that wastes gas and irritates the shit outta anyone that either a) has cruise control or b) knows how to drive at a constant speed. I always find myself in the right lane, crawling along, because it infuriates me less.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I hate that too. I used to drive on a hilly highway on my way to work, and I would pass a pack of traffic climbing a hill, and then they would all pass me going down the other side, and this would repeat for the entire trip because I knew how to account for gravity and could hold the same speed.
But that behavior is most irritating when it is in conjunction with the left lane problems I mentioned before. Someone will be 5 miles up your ass while you are passing another car, and then when you move over to let them pass you, they slow way down and don’t go by. But then the next time you go to the left to pass someone else, they’re back on your tail again. Or the inverse, when someone is poking along, you finally get to pass them, and then a few miles later they zoom by like their ass is on fire.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I’d like to take the opportunity to point out that I do not tailgate unless the person I want to pass is in the left lane going significantly slower than everyone to their right and there is nobody in front of them. Then they deserve it. But if they’re not in the far left, are passing someone, or otherwise are blocked from passing someone (e.g. by someone in front of them who doesn’t understand “stay right, pass left”), I stay back. I like to go fast, but I try my hardest not to be an asshole about it.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I’ve always thought drive left pass right in MD was so common that it was the expected behavior at this point. Every friend I have who is a native hates it, but admits it’s the standard rather than the exception.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 29, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
It’s infuriating. But as you say, the majority of people don’t get the “stay right, pass left” idea, so you eventually give in and start passing on the right if you want to get anywhere.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I’ve got a growing number of friends and family in the Raleigh area. (Including an adorable 6 m/o nephew) I am tempted by this.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
And you can pick me up en route! Everybody wins!
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by Ben Rothenberg on Nov 29, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
It goes back to what Bud in TN has commented many times: the Flyers FO has two objectives: amass as much talent as possible and then (after the fact) figure out how to fit it all under the cap. Long-term ramifications don’t come into account, because “they’ll worry about next year, next year”. If dumping Nodl for nothing opens up a roster spot, so be it. Never mind that a little patience, better roster management and realistic expectations of the health of your older defensemen could’ve prevented this.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Hey, someone reads my posts! Cool!
/wishes his students would listen to lectures. :-((
//Two different group presentations bombed major concepts last night :-((((
No planning. None. If this Nodl move were in isolation, we could agree with the posts below that suggest he “tried” to trade him. But I’ll just start shouting “RANDY JONES”. Just another brick in the wall.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's reported bloat-signing
This move doesn’t bother me as the next one he’ll end up having to make to cover up another miscalculation, error in judgment, etc.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
When we grew up and went to the rink
There were certain GMs who would
Hurt the bloggers with how they didn’t think
By pouring their derision
Upon any player they had
And exposing every weakness
However carefully hid by the Cap’n
But in the town, it was well known
When they got home at night, their aged
And psychopathic owners would thrash them
Within inches of their lives.
We don’t need no education…
Bob.
by The Dark on Nov 29, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe nobody at all was interested in trading for him? Its Noodles, not exactly a sparkling gem.
Anyway they got the contract space they probably wanted, so lets see if something happen now.
Powe went for a 3rd rounder. Nodl is worth at least that. Even a 7th rounder is more than what we got for him.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
The market decide whats the value of a player, probably right now nobody was interested in a 4th liner for a pick.
Or nobody wanted to give us something in return to allow us to free a contract.
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
How do you know this? The only thing we know for a fact is that 3 teams didn’t want him for free.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
It doesnt sound like that from the original article, it just make it sounds like our GM is a retard that doesnt even try…which frankly, I doubt very much.
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I think the frustration is with a mindset that the Flyers FO has had since before the cap was instituted. Before the lockout you could run a team like this if you had an unlimited supply of money, which the Flyers do. After? It seems like assets are worth more these days than to just casually dump them off on a whim – especially cap-friendly assets like Nodl.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
I disagree, but if you see that in the tone, there’s nothing I can do to prove you otherwise.
The point remains: You’re throwing out claims that “probably right now nobody was interested” in giving up a pick. Or “nobody wanted to give us something in return”. How do you know this?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Start with a lot of faith in the GM, then conclude that he tried to shop the player over the last month, got no takers, lowered the price in the last week, still got no takers, and resorted to waivers.
Start with a little faith in the GM, then conclude that he burned up the phone lines for the last day or two but they were in a hole and nobody would give up anything, so he had to resort to waivers.
Start with no faith in the GM, then conclude that he realized yesterday that there were no defensemen left and said “well shit, we gotta do something fast; I guess if we waive Nodl we can be pretty sure someone will take him.”
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I think that the “lot of faith” choice seems to me a reasonable, if not minimal, expectation of what a GM should do regularly as part of his job. If Holmgren and his staff aren’t meeting this threshold then the problem is not an insufficient understanding of the 50-contract limit or the CBA or the details of salary cap reality. It’s closer to basic dereliction of duty.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 29, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
“He very obviously could have been had via trade — even if just for a pick or something — if Holmgren and Co. just did his homework on this”.
So this doesnt mean Travis is saying Holmgren didnt do his homeworks?
Are you gloriously kidding me?
I’m just a fan, I live one billion miles away, I only try to figure out what MIGHT been happened, and thats it.
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
When your GM says he put someone on waivers to “gauge interest”, as Travis remarks the sentence before you quote him, that tends to show that you didn’t “gauge interest” prior to putting him on waivers.
Gloriously.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I would take with a grain of salt anything a GM says, but whatever.
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
And I do. But this isn’t about trusting the GM, it’s using the information available to make a conclusion.
You are dismissing what he said, saying Travis should have too, and excluding this information is unfair to Holmgren. But it’s Holmgren’s words.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. If that’s what Homer wants us to believe… well, he’s making his own bed on this one.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I live one billion miles away
So you’re somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn? Nice neighborhood.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Wegmans is awesome.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
I am not really sure what I believe when it comes to death but if I can have my way, I want to die and become a permanent resident at my local Wegmans.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Have your ashes scattered in the fine cheese section…? I want to be interred by the fresh fish.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
I want to be interred by the fresh fish.
So many choices …
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
I know where you’re going with this…don’t. ;-)
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Honestly, my first thought was of several dolphin pallbearers … but yes, the second thought was perhaps beyond the pale.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone else at the funeral would die from the severe cuteness overload caused by dolphin pallbearers. It would be a catastrophe.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
I challenge you to smell dolphin breath just once, and then continue to refer to them as ‘cute’.
It’s goddamn foul.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Well, all fish smell like that, geez. They can’t help it. All they eat is fucking squid and shrimp and other smelly fish.
They act cute.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Fish ain’t cute. Birds ain’t cute. Bugs ain’t cute. Rodents ain’t cute.
Babies, dogs, and redheads are cute (no direct intent there, BTW).
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Rodents ain’t cute.
I take it you’ve never seen a prairie dog. Or a chinchilla. :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Prarie dogs FTW! When they pop out of those little holes and raise their little arms in the air? OMG. Squeeeeee.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Ever hear the Denis Leary routine from ‘No Cure for Cancer’ where he talks about sea otters and cows? Hilarious.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I lay on my back and do cute human things with my hands!
OK, you’re free to go.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
That’s the one!!!
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Why is Bill Hicks dead and Denis Leary is famous? Because there’s no cure for cancer.
It’s a shame, the guy’s deliver is great, but as a comedian, stealing jokes is the ultimate sin.
Leary stole from a lot of people. Hicks and Louis C.K. being the most notable ones.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
There argument is such BS are you serious Jim Fix’s death was a current event every comedian has the right to comment on current events. That is like saying everyone stole for Chris Rock for making Bill Clinton jokes. Same thing with the Judas Priest suicide joke what give Bill Hicks copy right priviledges on smoking jokes, Bill Fix, untimely deaths of famous celebrities pretending to have heart attacks.
Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011
Fake fish don’t count. That’s cheating.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Birds can be very cute FWIW. Cuteness is in the eye of the beholder.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Yes – and in my beholden even chinchillas ain’t cute (soft as hell though). A rodent is a rodent. I’m not much of a sentimentalist – big eyes and soft fur doesn’t get my sympathy.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
My cat’s breath is pretty bad too, but she is adorable and I am powerless to resist her demands for catnip and treats.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Is kitten breath the worst thing ever? I think so. But they are so adorbs.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
I’m fascinated by this discussion’s correlation between animal cuteness and sweetness of breath.
I tend to admire them from a greater distance.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 29, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t blame us; pf started it. He’s such a freaking curmudgeon. I mean, I’m cynical, but even I have my limits.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Are you kidding, it’s great. I imagine all these moments of inter-species respiratory intimacy. It’s like a Sesame Street version of BSH After Dark.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 29, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I still maintain that, while fascinating and actually quite beautiful, dolphins are not ‘cute’. But given the subjectivity of the measure (and the likelihood that any statistical analysis of the ‘cuteness’ factor woudl prove me wrong) I am officially dropping the matter entirely and pretending to work some more.
:)
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Kittens make nice hood ornaments. (I’m allergic.)
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Ooh, now I have the PF antidote. Kitten dander spray.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Dang. Time to change my screen name apparently. (“Drat! Foiled again!”)
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Well I’m in Italy, but sadly got to agree that hockeywise its “somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn”. :(
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_(ice_hockey)
Sad – the biggest players ever to play for Asiago were Rico Fata, Matheiu Dandenault, and … Ken Linseman??
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Thats not too bad if you consider theres barely a league. :)
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
There’s what, seven teams in an area the same size as Arizona? That ain’t bad – you’d be hard pressed to finds that density in the US.
I do understand that it may not be worth watching much though.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think every team (except one) in the main league is into an area the size of Indiana.
And yep, not exactly highlight reel stuff as far as I know.
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
It’s got a great view of Uranus.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Now that’s just gross.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Bazinga!
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Hell, Nodl is a guy who can take a responsible NHL shift. Someone would have coughed up future considerations or a conditional pick, even if it were a really low pick, for him. At the very least, I should say.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
There are an abundance of Nodle type players in the AHL. I can see how no one would have wasted a pick (even a late rounder) on him. Everybody tends to overvalue hometown players, I think to a certain extent that is going on here.
Arriving in I'll Humor since 1983.
The people against this are doing two things:
1. Getting frustrated at the poor decisions that lead them to this point while recognizing this isn’t a bad blow to the team.
2. Using non traditional stats to not let personal bias influence a players worth.
So no, I don’t think you’re right.
I do see the high value in using nontraditional stats to evaluate a player’s worth. That is the primary reason I like this site so much. That being said I still do reserve my capacity to “eyeball” a player. The “I know it when I see it” test used by Supreme Court Justice Stewart when describing porn applies here. I just always saw him as overvalued by this organization.
Arriving In Ill Humor Since 1983.
And that is a horrible, horrible legal test.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not arguing over eye balls versus stats, I’m saying that a majority of the people who are frustrated by this aren’t overvaluing a hometown player, and I provided the examples I’m seeing as to why I’m saying that. Further I think most people who are saying good riddance as more the “hometown” type of fan if you will.
I can see how no one would have wasted a pick (even a late rounder) on him.
The Flyers got a third round pick for Darroll Powe, who played a lesser role on the team last year and had less success.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
True, but as we all know history does not repeat itself. Rather, ostensibly similar situations are played out through the context of a new and fluid set of circumstances. There might not be the same need/market for this type of player, where there was in the past.
Arriving In Ill Humor Since 1983.
but as we all know history does not repeat itself
You lost me there.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I was a history minor, and it’s a semantic argument. History does repeat itself, just not in specifics. Trends and cultural shifts are often characterized as cyclical; if you prefer event-based history (that is, one that views events as disconnected from the inculcating society) you may claim that history is never repeated.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
And I will argue that event-based history is a complete load of crap, on par with revisionism and creationism.
If you truly want to travel that road.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I imagine our definitions differ. That being said, didn’t Mark Twain have some sort of quote about this?
Arriving In Ill Humor Since 1983.
It is not worthwhile to try to keep history from repeating itself, for man’s character will always make the preventing of the repetitions impossible.
- Mark Twain in Eruption
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Hah, I was thinking of this “History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme”….but I am not even sure he actually said it.
Arriving In Ill Humor Since 1983.
Yeah, so many quotes of unknown authorship are simply ascribed to Twain.
I have no idea who said that one.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
You’d be correct, I’m an engineer. But I’d agree with what both DLJr and penguinsfan said. Even in engineering, mistakes are repeated if you don’t learn from what was done before. :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yep. My moron boss is trying to include a stormwater infrastructure feature that has been proven not to work … but he still wants us to use it. My life … how many times can I tell my boss to piss off and leave the engineering to the engineers???
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
how many times can I tell my boss to piss off and leave the engineering to the engineers???
Oh man, I hear that one. Ugh.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Sad part is that he once WAS an engineer. Now he’s just a useless politician/manager/suckass.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Right, but we have to distinguish repeated mistakes from history repeating itself. I can see how certainly the philosophy of this FO leads them to making mistakes repeatedly, that being said, I don’t think the market for Nodle and Powe was the same, so to extrapolate exactly what the Flyers could have (would have) got for him is a rather fruitless intellectual exercise.
Arriving In Ill Humor Since 1983.
So, in short, your claim is that the actions of the front office were completely independent of the outside world, and that the two decisions are not ‘history’ repeating because the conditions into which the decision was made are not equivalent?
That is more a pro-active vs reactive argument, is it not? Do we believe that Homer made the decision to waive Nodl in an absolute vaccuum, with no outside influences? (One sure hopes not.) Do we consider that perhaps, if he did take into account what may have been a limited market for Nodl, this was the best move for the club regardless of the outcome to Nodl? (Yes, but now you introduce the variability of judgement and the potential foresight to avoid the situation where the restricted market dictated the choice.) Or do we simply assume that Holmgren made every effort to move Nodl for some return, and finding no options, finally resorted to waiving him? (Possible, but still arguably a trap of his own design, and therefore not simply a repeated mistake but a continuation of the histiry he has as a GM.)
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure I follow exactly what you are stating here. But I certainly don’t believe that I have represented (at least on purpose) that any decisions were made “independent of the outside world.”
Arriving In Ill Humor Since 1983.
Rather, quite the opposite, that the two decisions were made in reaction to fluid circumstances that were different at each point in time, thus the utility of making strict outcome based comparisons is not very useful.
Arriving In Ill Humor Since 1983.
Again, this is a matter of perspective. If you view the event from the team’s side of things, the relative gain is virtually equivalent – you have (we hope) maximized return on an unwanted player.
If you view this as a continuum of actions by the FO, the return for the inherent value was decreased; you’ve ‘sold low’ on the investment and therefore lost overall depth to the team.
I’m not actually saying you’re wrong, just that there are different ways of perceiving this singular event – one as part of a consistent set of positive actions undertaken by the front office, or one as a decision dictated by the existent conditions at the moment.
One coudl still argue then, that the decision should not have been made in the current market conditions, and that not making a decision may have been the best decision overall. One may also say that the limited choices of decision were resultant from previous actions already undertaken by the front office – they painted themselves into the corner, so to speak.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I can imagine the need/market being lesser now than it was in June, because teams have largely filled those holes already. But I can’t imagine that if they could get a third rounder for Powe in June, they couldn’t have gotten something at least comparable for Nodl.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
That does depend on your definition of ‘success’. Frankly, I thought Powe had reasonable utility – he made great hits, he played rather well on the fourth line in keeping the puck in the OZone, and he played PK with blocked shots. NOt saying Nodl didn’t/can’t also do those, but I don’t feel Powe was less able.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Darroll played a lesser role than nodl? You mean last year when Powe played 81 games to Nodls 65? Yes he had 5 more points but who cares? No one expected points from Powe including the Wild and that’s not why he was traded there.
Also you have to remember that there’s a huge difference when you are trading someone after a successful 81 game season as opposed to being traded 22 games into the season where you’ve shown some struggles to fit in. HUGE difference.
by kckrebs on Nov 29, 2011 1:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m too lazy to look up the exact percentage, but Nodl played with Mike Richards A LOT the last two seasons.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
So did Carcillo.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Well Kane is doing pretty well, even with carrying Carcillo all over the ice.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Darroll played a lesser role than nodl? You mean last year when Powe played 81 games to Nodls 65?
Yes. Nodl played on the third line, while Powe played on the fourth. Nodl faced tough defensive situations, while Powe faced middling situations. Nodl played more per game.
It was a bigger role.
And I do think the trade value is lower now than it was in June or October, but only because the Flyers have put themselves in a hole and hurt their own leverage with moves made in July and October. So my frustration isn’t that they waived him now, it’s that they made it necessary over the last few months.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Wait I thought killing penalties was the most important role? That why a rookie can’t do it and the Flyers can’t afford to lose Blair Betts after the loss of Powe.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
NICE!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
You realize that I said over and over through the Betts thing that I didn’t really care about the PK part of his job because someone else would pick that up, right?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
it’s not ridiculous to say "throw the best four options at skater out there and don’t worry about it too much, because the PK efficiency will be dominated by the goalie’s combination of skill and luck anyway."
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
You can say whatever line you want, hell he played 1st line a lot of the time in my eyes. They both averaged right around 12mins toi last year, and Powe played every game except 1. Estimate value however you like but hey at least we got, imo, absolute max value for Powe and didn’t just hang onto to a bunch of bottom 6 forwards…
by kckrebs on Nov 29, 2011 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Perhaps no team wanted Nodl in a trade. That’s definitely possible. But the real mistake was pushing the team up to the 50-contract limit in the first place, forcing them to dump a talented forward with a cheap cap hit.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
You don’t need to score goals to be talented.
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Broad Street Hockey - Covering the Philadelphia Flyers. Have you accepted Ilya Bryzgalov as your savior?
by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t remember talking about “goals” anywhere, weird…
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Then please explain why you doubt that he has talent.
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Broad Street Hockey - Covering the Philadelphia Flyers. Have you accepted Ilya Bryzgalov as your savior?
by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Noodles is what it is, an honest forechecker, decently reliable on defense, not a scorer, not a great passer either.
I don’t know where this talent=goals thing comes from btw, Joe Thornton (or whatever pass first elite player) isnt a scorer, but he can dish that rubber thing…he isnt talented?
They probably like Harry Z (don’t make me copy and paste that enigma of a name lol) better.
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
So why don’t his forechecking and defensive abilities equal talent? You question why Travis assumed that “not talented” meant “doesn’t score goals”, but in your negatives you say he isn’t a scorer, nor a passer. And good passing is directly connected to assists, which are part of scoring. So it actually does sound like you think scoring equals talent.
Not trying to be an ass or anything, but I’m confused by the apparent contradiction.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I think Travis’ comment was too narrow. FTW points out that obviously you don’t have to score goals to be talented, because good passers are talented too.
But what I think Travis meant is that you don’t have to be an offensive player to be talented, and I’m not sure yet whether FTW agrees with that.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Don’s pretty offensive … does he count?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
So true and some guy named Gainey that played a long time ago proves that. Also so does all of his selke trophies
"The characters in this picture are all fictitious. Anyone resembling them is better off dead"
Karate' Jerry..... Karate'
Semper Fi...
by lcd24 on Nov 29, 2011 2:09 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
How is this for talent?
Last season, he started in the offensive zone only 43.8% of the time, finished in the offensive zone 51.9% of the time (meaning he pushed play to the offensive zone) all the while having a Corsi Rel Qoc of .880, meaning he faced tough competition. In fact, of Flyers forwards last year playing more than 30 games, only Jeff Carter faced tougher competition. Now this year, he has been criminally misused and as a result has quite clearly fallen out of favor with the organization, but to look at the above numbers and to infer Andreas Nodl is not talented is ignorant at best and stupidity at worst.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Oh, the mighty Corsi numbers, he is going to be an All Star in Carolina then.
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
If you have something better, please, share. Justin has presented objective evidence that encompasses everything the NHL tracks.
And if shutdown forwards were named All-Stars, I might believe your snark.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Did I mis-represent the numbers somehow? Did I falsely say the stats show something they really don’t?
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Not at all, I just think that Eyes > Corsi, and thats it.
We shall see how amazing he is going to be in Carolina. Time will tell.
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
No one ever said he was amazing. So unless your eyes see something that doesn’t exist, I don’t think any of us trust your eyes as it relates to the ability to gauge anything better than a Corsi stat.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
We should abolish scouting staff, we got Corsi numbers after all, why wasting time scouting players?
Seriously, I don’t know…numbers only tell a side of a story in my opinion, but of course anyone can have a different idea about it.
by FireTheWalrus on Nov 29, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I ask again: did your eyes tell you that he didn’t face top competition? Did your eyes tell you that he didn’t start in the defensive zone a lot?
Are you shitting on the objective stats because you disagree with what they say, or just because you don’t like the answer they give?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
If you think that scouting players does not involve looking at advanced statistics then you don’t know what a scout is.
Yes, numbers only tell a side of the story, so do the eyes. But numbers are unbiased. No one is suggesting that you look at just stats, use them with your eyes, that’s what I think makes the most sense. But what you are doing here is disregarding stats completely.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
We should abolish scouting staff, we got Corsi numbers after all, why wasting time scouting players?
If you think the people around here who use stats are saying this, you clearly don’t get it.
Seriously, I don’t know…numbers only tell a side of a story in my opinion, but of course anyone can have a different idea about it.But maybe you do get it. We’re not saying stats are perfect and everything. But neither are eyes. You need both. Don’t take every reference to a stat as saying “STATS TELL ALL. YOUR EYES LIE.” Because that’s not true at all.
Seriously, why do anti-stat people get their panties in such a fucking bunch anytime you write something with numbers in it? We’re not trying to attack you and force you to use stats. We’re trying to use stats to help with what our eyes can’t see. You need both!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Math is scary.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t your eyes tell you he faced top competition last year? Didn’t your eyes tell you he started in his own end a lot last year? If not, then your eyes are not paying good enough attention.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
by Eric T. on Nov 29, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Eyes > Corsi
Eyes subject to opinion and perception bias > Objective stats and analysis. Clearly.
Look, no one here is saying he is the greatest thing since sliced bread or in 30 years time parades will be had in his honor or even that the Flyers will deeply miss the presence of Andreas Nodl. What people are saying is that Andreas Nodl is a guy who has proven to have some value as a guy with the ability to push the play up ice and perform well against top competition, and the Flyers lost him for nothing. If he does not fit on the team anymore for varying reason, that’s fine, but as mentioned, Nodl is a guy who provides solid depth with a real value, and the Flyers lost him while getting absolutely nothing in return.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I don’t think you need to like using Corsi to conclude that Nodl is a good defensive forward; they just provide the objective evidence.
If you watched him closely last year, you might also have concluded by eye that he consistently faced top competition in his own end and battled them to roughly a draw. And if you looked at the traditional stats, you would have noticed that despite facing top competition in his own end, he ended up with typical scoring numbers for a third-line forward.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Judging by how he did not fall far at all on waivers, I would make the conjecture that at least someone would have been willing to trade something for him. Again, even a measly 7th round pick would be better than this.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Homer,

I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
by Katchis on Nov 29, 2011 12:34 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
Hahahahaha
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
green’d
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
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Cheeyeah!
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Nice – always appropriate Kat.
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by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Why yes thank you!
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Haha, thank you! I’m coming in late to this and I’ve made it less than halfway down the thread, and finding this was a relief.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 29, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Here's how I think the dominoes have fallen
- The Flyers sign Bacashuihua and Kessel, putting them at 50 contracts.
- The Flyers put Bartulis in AHL to start season, so re-entry waivers make it hard for them to use him this year.
- Unforeseeably, two 35+ year old defensemen get hurt.
- The Flyers have nobody they can call up to play defense, so they need to add a player. But they can’t add a player.
- The Flyers get desperate to unload a contract so they can make a move, and resort to waiving a useful piece.
So because they decided to add Bacashuihua and Kessel, because they couldn’t foresee that Bartulis (at 0.6M) might make a better #7 D than Walker (at 1.7M), because they couldn’t fathom that a couple guys might get hurt, because even when they knew Pronger was ailing they didn’t look for a trade quietly while they still had some leverage, they get themselves into a hole where they have to give Nodl away for nothing.
Is it a tremendous loss? No, obviously not. But if they’d just show even the tiniest bit of foresight, they could so easily have kept a useful depth player around or gotten something of value for him. That’s what’s frustrating.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
You forgot waiving Betts to fit in Couturier, him coming back, and us having to drop a minor leaguer to get back under the 50 contract limit, thus making it even harder to do without now waiving Nodl.
My initial response was, "I hate you so much right now" but I changed it.
by DLJr on Oct 19, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
Has MoneyPuck received any sort of traction of higher up NHL management?
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 12:53 PM EST reply actions
That piece in the Globe & Mail from September had quotes from the Penguins saying they use it. Also saying a handful of others do. So, yes.
Also, recall that Corsi was invented by a Sabres goalie coach and used by Roger Nielson.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
if everything goes to shit, you could always be the Tour Guide in the NHL Hall of Fame and recall the history of advanced metrics in hockey
think of it as a hockey park ranger
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Nice.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
In the modern NHL isn’t cap space and roster contract space just as important and maybe even more important then a 5th round pick or an AHL prospect? Which is the most you could have expected anyway. Smell you later Noodles. I will go out on a limb and forecast a long AHL career.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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you are just an angry little man, aren’t you?
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Realist! It’s a cold hard business and this is a minor bump in the road.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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yeah but these are minor bumps replicated later on with bigger bumps that show the same train of thought
it’s faulty thinking
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Come on man! This guy is so replaceable by any number of the willing and able bodies in the AHL. Since when is he legitimately valuable? Enough with glamorizing these average worker bees.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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did you not read anything M?
I acknowledged it as a minor bump, but it’s the same thinking that has resulted in major bumps
for instance the versteeg trade
“this guy produced for shit, let’s trade him for shit:”
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Selling “low”
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
releasing someone by way of gauging interest in the ultimate way of selling though
it’s not even selling, it’s forfeiture
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Take my forward, please
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
by doubleh on Nov 29, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you’re on fire today
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Did you hear the rimshot in your head? Was going for the Catskills comedy club vibe there.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Catskills..Cats with skills?
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Our road has so many “minor bumps” that it feels like a washboard. Maybe we should have someone trying to manage those problems to smooth out the ride.
Bob.
by The Dark on Nov 29, 2011 12:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well this is one step in that direction, isn’t it? I mean everyone knew correcting some issues was going to lead to sacrifices. Now people are crying over the sacrifices.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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What issues did Nodl contribute to?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
He didn’t but it doesn’t relieve the inevitable sacrifices to correct some problems. Chalk it up to making corrections.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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So you jettison every forward who started in their own end 51% of the time last year, save Jody Shelley?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
You jettison some one who will be picked up if you are serious about clearing space and gaining contracts. And lets not pretend he was an all star. And even all the all stars might not have had 51 zone starts.
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Nobody is pretending he is an All Star.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think anyone will claim that the move didn’t have utility – of course, it clears some salary and a roster/contract spot. BUT it could have had more utility, had they been able to find a taker in a trade, even if just for a low pick or ‘future considerations’.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
But that is exactly what I am arguing in seven different places. How do you know he wasn’t shopped and got no bites at all. This was just the next step on a guy they didn’t see as having value to the organization anymore.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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Pure speculation. IF there was no trade market, then the best answer for the team was having him picked up on waivers. IF there was an unexplored trade market, this was not the best possible outcome. I can’t say.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Nor can Geoff or Eric.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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Truth. I would hope they’d concede that … but apparently vain hopes are my theme for the day (like that Nodl woudln’t get grabbed).
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
How do you know this? The only thing we know for a fact is that 3 teams didn’t want him for free.
I already admitted it.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody knows for sure that other teams wanted him, or how many others there might be. All we know for sure is that one of the first four wanted him, and 25 others never got a chance to say.
As did I.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Because they’re stupid sacrifices. When you stub your toe, you don’t chop off a foot. Admittedly, Nodl is a relatively minor asset, but he’s still an asset that was given up with nothing of value coming back in return. You can say that (very little) cap space and a roster slot have value, but those plus a logo, even a seventh rounder, are more valuable.
Bob.
by The Dark on Nov 29, 2011 1:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
logo – pick
#DAMNYOUAUTOCORRECT
Bob.
by The Dark on Nov 29, 2011 1:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You realize you get cap space and roster space AND a 5th round pick or an AHL prospect in the scenario we wanted, right?
Why are you deciding which is more valuable of the things we should have had?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
If there was a 5th out there to be had don’t you think it would have been obtained? Why is it assumed they didn’t even try? I chose to assume they did. We are all assuming, right?
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There was just a GM meeting where Holmgren may have asked around and got no biters. If you want to call it sugar coating be my guest.
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Here’s the difference, M:
Homer comes out and says he put Nodl on waivers to “gauge interest”.
You assume that means he already did. I read that and conclude he put him on waivers before gauging interest.
We all know Homer can’t be trusted in what he says, but you’re operating on the assumption and I’m operating on his words.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Which you just admitted are seldom truthful
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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Because that’s the information I have. If you don’t want to use all the available information – which we already know you don’t – fine.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
But why use information that you already believe as false to prove truth.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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Because I don’t believe everything he says is false. You don’t either.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t believe him much either when he speaks but I believe its part of the game and don’t get insulted by it.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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So you don’t believe he told Matt Walker he never saw him play before acquiring him?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely not. Matt Walker played against the Flyers at least once so that is not true, right
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"My meeting with him was … ‘I know a few things about you,’" Holmgren recalled. "You are a right shot. I know you’re a big guy, tough, and I know you are a good guy. But I don’t know anything else because of what happened last year – no one has seen you play."
So even when he gives information he wasn’t asked, you don’t believe him.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
That doesn’t say he has never seen him play but he just doesn’t know where he is at that moment.
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That’s impressive spin, M.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Well it is kind of what he is saying on face value of the actual words listed. If this was in reference to his place on the team this season it makes complete sense.
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Nowhere does he mention next year, his progress, or anything else you’re reading into it.
Besides, you’re now trying to interpret his words into something truthful, which you’ve already admitted he doesn’t do.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
And that is just it I can twist his words anyway I want seeing as we both believe they are lies. Such as gauging interest means no one wanted him for a price.
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But you’re failing here, since I’m pointing out how desperate your twists appear.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Putting a guy on waivers is not an exercise in gauging interest. It’s an exercise is asset mismanagement.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
by EREX21 on Nov 29, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Again assuming he didn’t try to trade him.
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Like Geoff, I am going on what he said, that’s not really an assumption.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Except when you already believe what he says are lies.
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So we should ask players, but not management? Because players tell the truth, but GMs never do?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
You’re missing the obvious solution. We should ask Keith Jones.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
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Ask me. I know everything.
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No. But don’t think you know truth based on deception. I don’t know he shopped him but why do we believe he didn’t?
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A) His words; B) Only 3 teams passed on him, showing there was interest.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
What does the 3 teams that passed on him matter. They are obviously in worst shape then Carolina and didn’t see a value in him.
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by MJDII on Nov 29, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It matters because what we know is that 25% of the teams who were offered him wanted him.
The more teams pass on him, the more believable it is that nobody wanted him. But since so few teams passed, it’s more likely that a team doing better than Carolina wanted him.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
How can you take 3 teams passing on him to mean 27 teams wanted him?
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He isn’t. He’s saying that if the team that was 28th in the pecking order had gotten him, it might be fair to guess that they were the only team that wanted him. When the team that was fourth in the pecking order grabs him, it’s likely that there were others behind that also would have wanted him.
Nobody knows for sure that other teams wanted him, or how many others there might be. All we know for sure is that one of the first four wanted him, and 25 others never got a chance to say.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
It might just be luck of the draw and that teams situation not genuine interest. And just cause they picked him up for nothing doesn’t mean they were willing to send anything for him.
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Yeah, so here’s what we know for sure:
1) Powe played a lesser role for the team last year and had less success, but got a 3rd round pick in trade
2) When Nodl was put on waivers, he was snapped up by a team with very high priority
It doesn’t seem crazy to infer from that that there might be other teams that wanted Nodl and that might have given up a pick in return, had Homer called them a month ago.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Powe had way more NHL experience and definitive role then Nodl.
He was merely snapped up by the first team that figured what the fuck. And since we are working on theory it isn’t crazy to assume no one wanted him for a price.
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Powe had way more NHL experience and definitive role then Nodl.
And is a worse hockey player.
He was merely snapped up by the first team that figured what the fuck.
How do you know this? How do you know Minnesota was Holmgren’s first call? (contradiction alert!)
And since we are working on theory it isn’t crazy to assume no one wanted him for a price.
And nobody said it was. But rather that it is less crazy to assume there were multiple suitors for Nodl.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa stats boy – how DARE you???
is a worse hockey player
You know better than that.
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by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
:)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
And is a worse hockey player.
But clearly proved and remained playing a role in the NHL.
How do you know this?
I don’t but there is nothing to say it’s untrue.
And nobody said it was. But rather that it is less crazy to assume there were multiple suitors for Nodl.
Even Holmgren isn’t so friggin stupid that he could have had a pick and chose not to.
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But clearly proved and remained playing a role in the NHL.
Just like Nodl.
I don’t but there is nothing to say it’s untrue.
Russell’s Teapot! Yay!
Even Holmgren isn’t so friggin stupid that he could have had a pick and chose not to.
But he was dumb enough to have teams call him about trading for Randy Jones, only to put him on re-entry waivers.
Oh wait, you don’t believe anything Holmgren says, even when he makes himself look stupid for no reason.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Just like Nodl.
I missed the consist role he played
Russell’s Teapot! Yay!
Here is my handle and here is my spout.
But he was dumb enough to have teams call him about trading for Randy Jones
This is fact?
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Financially, it was a huge gamble and the Flyers lost.
"He would have helped our team but that’s the risk you take," general manager Paul Holmgren said. "What are you going to do? … Those are the rules. We knew the risks going in."
Holmgren said a couple clubs asked about him recently, but no one asked the Flyers to put him on re-entry so he could be claimed.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Asking and making real offers are as far apart as the Pacific Ocean.
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Not the point. Teams asked about him, and Holmgren put him on re-entry waivers anyway.
With full knowledge that teams wanted him, Holmgren offered him at half-price to other teams while paying half of his cap hit to not play for his team.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Listen the end result is bad but again saying other teams wanted him and having legitimate offers is mutually exclusive.
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And I’ve never claimed otherwise, so congratulations, you’ve made a point nobody disputes.
So Holmgren isn’t “so friggin’ stupid that he could have had a pick and chose not to.” He’s simply so friggin’ stupid that he put a player on re-entry waivers knowing he’d get claimed.
I guess it’s just a matter of degree at that point.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Powe had way more NHL experience and definitive role then Nodl.
Nodl played 38 games at the age of 21, 20 games at the age of 22, and 69 games at the age of 23.
Powe didn’t make it to the NHL until he was 23, when he played 66 games. Yes, he’s 26 now, but I’d think that works against him more than for him, because he’s already hit his peak.
As for the claim of a “more definitive role”, Nodl was consistently used on the third line in the toughest defensive situations on the team last year. Powe was consistently used on the fourth line against weak competition. I’m not clear on what makes Nodl’s role less definitive, but it was definitely a tougher role, and he played it well.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Powe > Nodl.
Why?
Princeton > St. Cloud State.
Obviously Homer needs help in the ‘cap calculation’ area …
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Powe played PK against other teams best players.
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Yeah, and he did fine there. So what? Does that make Nodl’s role (third line player, take on toughest defensive shifts and try to achieve a draw) less definitive?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Yes because he was not always on that line and had far from earned exclusivity. And again killing penalties consistently in this league is very important which you are now under selling as no big deal.
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Wait, now you’re on the side of PK being really important? When Betts got waived, you were excited to have me on your side saying it was no big deal.
And Nodl can kill penalties too, FWIW.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I didn’t think losing Betts was a big deal but I have a problem with Nodl played sparsely with Richards and Powe was a 4th line stiff. I think Powe created more of a market for himself in that he established a role he played 1 game short of an entire NHL season. Nodl is still a limbo guy and the league knows it.
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I have a problem with Nodl played sparsely with Richards and Powe was a 4th line stiff.
Nodl’s linemates: 58.9% Richards, 29.3% JvR, 25.5% Giroux, 19.0% Carter.
Powe’s linemates: 42.6% Betts, 30.8% Carter, 24.3% Carcillo, 24.3% Shelley.
Explain to me again why you have a problem with me saying Nodl was a clear top-9 forward and Powe was a fourth-liner? Or why you think playing 81 games with the fourth line created more of a market for him — I thought you believed fourth liners were all interchangeable?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
But at the cost we pay for Nodl, what is his cost Vs replacement, or cost per goal, or whatever we have? I bet its WAY higher than Powe’s.
My initial response was, "I hate you so much right now" but I changed it.
by DLJr on Oct 19, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
Nodl’s goals versus salary last year was 0.245.
Powe’s was -0.305
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
4th liners that keep bouncing in and out of the line up and back and forth from the minors are interchangeable. Which is how I see Nodl. Powe was never in limbo as to where he was playing or if he was playing. I really don’t think Nodl was any better then Powe and just because you got a 4th for Powe I believe no one was giving you anything for Nodl or Homer would have done it.
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that keep bouncing in and out of the line up and back and forth from the minors are interchangeable.
You mean like JVR last year? Since, you know, your damning Nodl for the same mismanagement Lavy had with JVR to start out last year.
My initial response was, "I hate you so much right now" but I changed it.
by DLJr on Oct 19, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
4th liners that keep bouncing in and out of the line up and back and forth from the minors are interchangeable. Which is how I see Nodl.
a) Again, Powe didn’t make it to the NHL until he was 23. Nodl was a full-time NHLer at the age of 23. The only difference there is that Nodl also made it as a part-timer at the age of 21, whereas Powe didn’t. I don’t see how this works in Powe’s favor.
b) You once again dodged the question. How is a guy whose top four linemates were Richards, JvR, Giroux, and Carter a 4th liner?
c) You’re now saying that 4th liners who have a consistent NHL starting spot have value, and only the part-time fourth liners are interchangeable. But Blair Betts had a consistent, proven NHL starting spot; why were you defending the Flyers when he got waived?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
That’s not my fault that his track record indicates that they are.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
So then I could believe that gauge interest means no one wanted the guy so I cut him for the space.
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the Flyers have a history of not gauging interest correctly
“Gagne for a 4th and Walker, that sounds groovy”
shit, at least get a high 3rd
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Again you throw these ideas out there as if they were options. Glamorize Gagne all you want but I imagine in the leagues eyes he was an over-priced aging player with a real bad injury history.
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was he overpriced? yes
did he have a bad injury past? yes
But you don’t trade a player with those issues (but is good) for pennies
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
When you need cap space you do. He was actually an easy sacrifice
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haven’t you seen yet how bad that logic is?
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
No what you do with the space screws up the logic, but making sacrifices to move on can be your only options.
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The thing is, it’s clear from the Powe trade that they could have gotten something for him at the start of the year.
The only reason to give Nodl away now is because a lack of foresight put them in this hole. If they didn’t sign Jason Bacashuihua to be the #5 goalie, they wouldn’t have this problem. If they didn’t try to fit Matt Walker’s $1.7M salary into the NHL instead of Bartulis’ 0.6M, they wouldn’t have this problem.
This is a problem of their own creation; it’s a sacrifice that didn’t need to be made.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
If they didn’t sign any number of the 25 players you have never heard of they would have this problem. You can’t equate on signing or another to the situation they are in with cap and contract space. And yes they created the problem but when do you start to get out of it? It has to start some time with someone.
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The point is that before last off-season, DG pointed out that the Flyers were operating very close to the 50-contract limit and she was nervous about what might happen as a result.
The Flyers then added guys like Bacashuihua who add virtually nothing to the organization. This showed a complete lack of foresight, exacerbated an already-existing problem, and put them in this hole.
You’re acting like this is a problem created three years ago that they’re just disentangling from now. This is a problem that even an amateur could see coming in June, that the team made worse in July for absolutely no reason, could have solved with a trade in October, and instead had to give away a guy for nothing in November.
I don’t see how you can defend that.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
OK, DG and Don pointed it out. I have no specific memory of Don contributing anything to the conversation, but I’ll take his word for it. :)
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Whoa, slow your roll dude! Did you just call DG an amateur?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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Does she get paid? Wouldn’t you expect the people whose full-time job is managing the roster and cap to think ahead a couple of months if a random hobbyist on the internet can do it?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
2 shots at DG. It just aint right man aint right!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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I think it’s a shot at the people who are paid to do what DG does for free, and she does it better.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yea if you wanted to take Eric’s side, sure. But he called her a random hobbyist on the internet. That is one step over meaningless.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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I like how you’ve deflected the conversation away from Homer’s obvious failure. You may not be down with the cool kids’ hep slang these days, but you’re well-versed in internet argument protocol.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Erick layin the smackdown on that candy ass
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Eric*
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Candy Ass. You better bring along some friends and a bag lunch because it will be a very long day brother.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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bravo, bravo
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Clearly Eric was trying to guage interest in DG.
by mtitanic on Nov 29, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Doubleh insisted my contract should have a full NMC, so I hope Travis actually gave it to me… Nobody’s getting rid of me that easily.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 29, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
But you can when they were at 49, signed a goalie they didn’t need. Bought a guy out, back at 49, then signed Kessel. Wanted Couturier, so had to trade Legein. Back at 50. Now they want to acquire somebody, so they waive Nodl.
It’s a very clear history.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Bingo. This is not some ancient problem that they’re just now digging out from under; they’ve clearly and repeatedly demonstrated that they place no value on having flexibility under the contract limit and now it has cost them an asset with significant (not huge, mind you, but significant) value.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
So it its not an ancient problem but they repeatedly and clearly have demonstrated this behavior.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
You forgot to mention Kalinski there, Geoff. He and Bacashua are the ones that screwed up the 50 limit. Each could have been brought in on an AHL-only deal if Homer really wanted them that badly.
Truth.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
sometimes you just have to stay put at 17. No one will blame you
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
????
….
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
You have a good hand. Just stay put, there’s only a handful of number combinations that can beat you
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think the bigger issue is the Flyers chose to give Nodl away for nothing because they’d already committed to Blake Kessel and the goalie whose name I can’t spell (Baschiuaua?). I’d take Nodl over those two and just bank the roster space until you need it. Which is now.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Agreed. It’s a trade of Nodl for Bacashuihua and a small jar of foresight.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Don’t forget Couturier
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
I’m leaving Couturier out because that’s a much more complex issue than the signing of a 29-year-old #5 goalie.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I’m not looking forward to when lanci joins this thread.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Speak for yourself. I’d kind of like to get the GM’s perspective on this move.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
by TNBrando on Nov 29, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
READY THE LOGIC CANNON
ARM YESELVES
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
To g
"Simba needs to sharpen his claws" - Ilya Bryzgalov, on Scott Hartnell
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Nov 29, 2011 1:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions
...
Ugh stupid mobile.
My reaction

"Simba needs to sharpen his claws" - Ilya Bryzgalov, on Scott Hartnell
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Nov 29, 2011 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
...
Ugh stupid mobile.
My reaction

"Simba needs to sharpen his claws" - Ilya Bryzgalov, on Scott Hartnell
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Nov 29, 2011 1:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Congratulations to you all, BSH
I figured that opening this comment section would lead me to endless bitching that Jody Shelley wasn’t waived instead. Thank you for not rehashing all the Shelley hate.
by alaskalovestheflyers on Nov 29, 2011 1:12 PM EST reply actions
Because blaming shelley for shit that has nothing to do with him is pointless.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
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Excellent point. Also, let’s not forget that Sidney Crosby is a pansy.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 29, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
and fire Andy Reid. and WTF with Papelbon? And is Leighton still available?
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 29, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Never thought that Nodl was an NHLer. The fact that he was even on this team instead of the Phantoms made me question what the brass was thinking. I think after seeing how slow Nodl is and with barely any upside in offensive potential they figured that they could shed a contract and some cap space. Maybe Nodl fits in on a team where nobody else scores either, like Carolna. We have better, faster players to take up his defensive minutes. He wont be missed.
So the fact that he produced like an average third line winger last year wasn’t enough to make him an NHLer? The fact that he did that while also taking on tough opposition in tough locations didn’t change your mind either?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think after seeing how slow Nodl is
Funny thing about that, he won the team’s fastest skating competition last year. Weird.
Hey. Don’t slow his roll with your facts.
I <3 our rookies.
by LeepinLizardz on Nov 29, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that guy is awful, we should trade him.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Just waive him. That’s easier.
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
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RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
One would think that someone who won a fastest skater competition would occasionally beat someone to a loose puck. Maybe he just skates slow when there are opposing players on the ice. I dont care what pond games he did well in, overall team speed is worse when he is in the lineup…..and shelly doesnt help that cause either.
by PhillyBuzz21 on Nov 29, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Or maybe you’re fitting your preconceived bias (Nodl is slow) around facts (Nodl won the fastest skater contest) to subvert facts.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I know you don’t, I was just pointing it out.
I know you also don’t care that I put zero stock in what your eyes tell you about Nodl’s speed because frankly I know nothing about your background or the way you watch the game, etc; hence why I don’t trust anyone’s eyes on this site, or memories for that matter.
I know you’re being facetious, but the Flyers waived Metropolit and Vaananen for Claude Giroux. This isn’t an isolated problem, it’s simply an under-appreciation of foresight and defensive players.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
You also have to remember that GM’s know when a team wants to get rid of a player, and the Flyers wanted Giroux up ASAP. Sometimes a trade takes days or weeks to complete, especially if your not gonna get much back
Oh, I know. It doesn’t make Holmgren look better though.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Ohh, I know. Homer has done much worse then this. In fact, letting Nodl go for nothing might be considered a win based on track record haha.
Like the Legein + 6th for futures? Yeah, sadly.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
God that’s a depressing thought.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 30, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
It’s nice that you miss the point.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
omg people are sooo dramatic, and love jumping to conclusions...
1. How do we know Nodl wasn’t offered to 29 other teams? He’s not going to come out and say that now is he?
2. Fire Holmgren? Really? He builds a competitive team every year, and the Flyers are always in the hunt for the Cup. What more can you ask for?
3. Its Andreas Nodl people, the cap space may be what they need at the moment, to make a follow up move, or to have some flex at the deadline. There’s also a contact spot available now, that adds some flexibility. Do you think the other GM’s in the league didn’t notice that he didn’t have a lot of options?
I’m always amazed at the level if anger for the loss of whats essentially a spare part in the organization. I liked some of these spare parts (Powe, and for a while Nodl too) but if they aren’t going to get used, or be able to contribute as needed, then its time to move on.
If Nodl, who is a legitimate NHL player – and they don’t grow on trees – was offered to 29 teams, someone would have taken him for a low pick or future considerations at the least.
Moreover, with a little foresight, they wouldn’t have had to trade or waive him, which is the larger point.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
why?
Why would someone else take him for a pick? Every other team has roster space, contract limits, and organizational plans. Just because hes available doesn’t mean someone would take him for a pick. Would you if you thought the flyers were ina corner and would have to expose him (or someone similar) for free?
Nodl’s upside clearly isn’t that well thought of in the rest of the league for others to throw a pick at him. Do you all really think the Flyers front office wouldn’t even try to unload him for value before they give him away for free?
Give your heads a shake.
You go from “Why would anyone offer a pick when they know they can get him for free?” to “He clearly sucks since nobody would offer him a pick.”
See the contradiction?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not 100% convinced that anyone would have given the Flyers anything for him at this point, knowing they were boxed into a corner with only six defensemen and no ability to add one.
But I do think the Powe trade and the claiming by a high-priority waiver team strongly suggest that had the Flyers shopped him a week ago when they had a little leverage, they might have gotten something reasonable in return, and that had they shopped him two months ago when they were not in a hole at all, they could have gotten a good return.
And again, the level of anger isn’t for the loss of a spare part, it’s for the unnecessary loss of a spare part. People were very happy with the Powe trade, because the team moved a spare part for good value. People are unhappy with the Nodl waiving, because the team moved a spare part for nothing.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Note that the GM said he put the player on waivers ‘in order to gauge interest’ in him. That’s like gauging the buoyancy of a diamond by pitching it in the toilet. You know the answer at the end of the exercise, but there are more fruitful ways of answering the question.
At any rate, it leads to the conclusion that the GM did NOT try to trade him prior; if interest has to be gauged via waivers, it hasn’t been ascertained prior by calling other GMs, right?
I can think of at least a couple teams – STL, MON, COL – that have some depth issues at F who would probably take him for a very low cost.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
- Because the waiver process is ranked in order of reverse winning percentage. Carolina was fourth in priority, so anybody who claimed him in the top 26 of the NHL didn’t get to claim him.
- Firing Holmgren is drastic, but you can certainly ask more of him. Like avoiding bonus penalties. Avoiding bad contracts. Planning in the future so as not to shed valuable players for nothing on waivers.
- They have roughly $5 million in cap space, they don’t need $845k.
You’re missing the point of the anger, sadly. It’s not that Nodl was integral, it’s that he was valuable. It’s not that he was the 13th forward, it’s that this is a pattern of showing a lack of foresight.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
gah.
I know how the waiver process works thank you. People here are implying that he didn’t evaluate the possibility of trading him to 29 other teams prior to Waivers. Sure he said Guaging Interest when asked what hes doing, and he could have said that better. He knew there was a slim chance he’s keeping the asset, so hes trying to play a political game with the other teams, the player, the rest of his players, etc.
You can’t have everything. Homer isnt afraid to take a gamble, so he doesnt always play things safe. Therefore the risk of a bad contract, or a bonus penalty exists. We don’t have insight to what other deals are in play etc when the free agency market, or trade market are in action. He accepts the risks and jumps to get the deal done,a nd sometimes there are consequences, which ultimately he deals with as best he can. Whats worse, that he doesn’t sign a Pronger cause he “thinks it through” too much, and the Flyers end up being run like other organizations, that:
a> Lack Identity/culture
b> Have no winning track record
c> little or no long term entertainment value over a long stretch of time.
If you think about the Flyers, they have a rich tradition of being competitive, playing a brand of hockey, and being a place players want to be. they know the organization takes chances to try and Win. That comes with risk, accept it or become a fan of St Louis or something.
Finally, they do not have $5 million in cap space. that will change drastically whenever pronger/Lilja etc come off LTIR. If Homer went and traded for a $5 million player now, everyone would lose it when pronger returned and another spare part was jettisoned to fit him back under the cap. Theres probably $2 million in useable cap space, but it shouldn’t be touched until prongers back anyway, and the trade deadline is approaching where there are better deals, better value for players, and more cost certainty in the impacts of a decision for the rest of the year.
You complain about people implying Holmgren didn’t evaluate the possibility of trading him based on Holmgren’s own words, but then imply that Holmgren knew what he was doing, knew the risks, and played a political game based on… faith.
If you are going to complain about assumptions based on documented evidence, you really shouldn’t follow it up with an assumption based on faith.
How did you go from “what more can you ask of Homer?” to “The Flyers try to win, it’s risky, either accept it or leave”? If you can’t debate the merits of Holmgren’s decisions without taking a shot, I have no interest in explaining to you why I have a lot more respect for the Sharks’ front office than the Flyers, and why I respect the Rays front office more than the Phillies.
I know how LTIR works, thank you. But if you think the Flyers waived a guy making $845k for cap space when they’re going to be on LTIR all year, I question how well you understand the LTIR exemption.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
They could’ve created the same cap space by sending Harry Z to the AHL, which would preserve the team’s depth. They could’ve created even more cap space by sending Shelley to the AHL, which would improve the team’s roster. That’s why I have to think this was about shedding a contract rather than about creating cap space.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
a place players want to be.
Hmm. Maybe. Do they ever want to return there though? I don’t know since I’m not familiar with historic facts but has ever any player returned to Philly? With hometown discount per se… Simply in order to play for the Flyers again after being sent away for whatever reason?
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Boucher.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks! Was just really curious. Wasn’t implying anything.
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Also Forsberg came back late in his career, Roenick will probably always go down in history as a Blackhawk but seems giddy at playing in our Alumni game, I’m sure players before 2000 have as well, but thats not my time period.
My initial response was, "I hate you so much right now" but I changed it.
by DLJr on Oct 19, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
Hextall. Tocchett. Recchi.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
There are zillions. Bernie is my favorite in this category (mentioned this in a thread last year). Goalies are a specialty though (Pete Peeters, anyone?)
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's reported bloat-signing
Sean Burke
Michael Leighton
Jesse Boulerice
Steve Duchesne
Kerry Huffman
John Paddock
Vinny Prospal
Mikael Renberg
Kjell Samuelsson
Dmitry Yushkevich
Bob.
But now you’re including guys who came back on re-entry waivers and through trades. That’s not what Kat was asking.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
True. Leighton, at least, did sign an extension after the second time we claimed him on waivers.
Bob.
Yeah, but it wasn’t much of a discount :)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 30, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Fire Holmgren? Really? He builds a competitive team every year
That has finished higher then 5th in the East ONCE in his reign
Your point being?
When they squeaked into the playoffs on the last day, they were in Game 6 of the Final..and hes competing in a division with a luck based powerhouse who built through the draft by being terrible. Homer rebuilt the franchise, added depth, and stayed competitive.
And needing a shootout to do so, I might add.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
We got in on a fucking coin flip.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
In his four full seasons:
6th, 5th, 8th, 2nd. That’s an average ranking of 4.2 in a conference of 15 teams, which I think puts them in the 72nd percentile.
10 playoff series, with a 6-4 record, and two trips to the final four.
That looks like a competitive team to me. He didn’t say “dominant.” How many franchises have done better?
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 30, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Stop Trolling Mr. Banner
2. Fire Holmgren? Really? He builds a competitive team every year, and the Flyers are always in the hunt for the Cup. What more can you ask for?

"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
#FireRoseman
@boknows71
2. A Cup? Whose to say he builds the best team he can every year if he’s constantly making at least minor and some major contract/cap screw ups?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 30, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Well this was really fun and extended my lunch break by an hour. Friggin BSH!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Alright, my z-key finger is getting sore (hard to come back to this much activity after 6 days off) and I’ve got work to do. I’ll be back.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Alright, my z-key finger is getting sore (hard to come back to this much activity after 6 days off) and I’ve got work to do. I’ll be back.
Merry mother of God. I need break.
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Sigh.
Just for my own clarification, was this move necessary because Schenn should be coming back up to the Flyers soon or because they wanted to acquire another defenseman?
Tracking the Flyers scoring chances at Broad Street Hockey
Think it’s for a defenseman, even though Homer said he doesn’t see a move coming immediately and that he wants to see how Marshall/Bourdon do in that spot before making a move. Schenn can come up right now due to the LTIR cushion. The Flyers have plenty of space for at least the next several weeks.
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Broad Street Hockey - Covering the Philadelphia Flyers. Have you accepted Ilya Bryzgalov as your savior?
by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
I think they had cap space for Schenn, even before Nodl got claimed. If this was cap-based, sending Harry Z down to the NHL would’ve cleared more cap space for them. I think it’s either they really didn’t want Nodl with the Flyers anymore or they needed his roster spot for another player yet-to-be acquired.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
TNBrando- any good places to watch the Flyers in TN?? Been down here over a month and still have to ask the bartender 4 times to put it on around here
If I started playing ice hockey right now, I could be better than Jody Shelley in 2 weeks
OT, but my bedroom just went from a 26" tube TV to a 40" 1080p LED TV. I will now enjoy Flyers games from the comfort of my bed
Let me know if Hartnell falls less in HD?
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
#FireRoseman
@boknows71
Plasma is an older technology, better colors than LCDs, but prone to image retention which basically gives it a life cycle.
LED is far more efficient, energy-wise, but I think it doesn’t get the truest blacks. Also no need to worry about leaving it paused or the like and “wearing it out.”
by hebrew hammer on Nov 29, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Not so much with the retention. There are a few sets that do that for a few seconds here and there, but it’s not the huge issue it was. Also, plasma is still typically a better picture, but it’s a glass piece, so it will reflect everything in the room if you can’t keep it dark, so LED/LCDs are better for a lot of people.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 30, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Pioneer makes a double paned one that doesn’t reflect much—I have it and the room is super bright in the daylight and it’s awesome.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Good to know, mine is starting to go, been looking around. Gotta call my guy.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 30, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
A plasma screen is basically a million tiny little red, green, and blue fluorescent bulbs that turn on and off to give the desired picture.
An LCD screen is basically a million tiny little gates that can open or close, and behind each one is a red, green, or blue filter, and behind those is a white light.
An LED is a kind of light, which is sometimes used as the backlighting for the LCD screen.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
They say LEDs are better for video games and animated stuff. Plasmas are more viewable from different angles and bright light situations. Use to be a case of burn out being more prevalent in LEDs, I think, but there have been so many advances, they’re both pretty good IMO.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
I have both and definitely prefer the plasma for movie and sports viewing, but both are sooooooooo much better than the shit I had growing up it’s hard to complain. 13 inch black and white with dials that got 6 channels? Fuuuuuuuck.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Get up and change the channels. Just try telling those young whipersnapers about that.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 30, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, hopefully you weren’t the antenna also.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 30, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
When the dial inevitably broke, you had to use a pliers to change the channel.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
holy crap. i remember that.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 30, 2011 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
If it was a Japanese one, it usually had the split in the middle – I found a guitar pick fit perfectly.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 30, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
LED is a LCD with a backlit screen(since LCD doesn’t have the same technology as plasma which can light the colors themselves), thus use less power then and LCD with florescent lighting(which is what can get those images stuck in the background on older ones)
Plasma is a liquid, thus colors are more vivid(as hebrew hammer said, the it gets true black). But they have a more limited lifespan cause the liquid will dry out over time(most new ones will last over 20 years anyway)
Screen is only one factor though. A lot of what makes a good TV is its resolution(pixels and 720 or 1080) and its frame rate(60 or 120 hertz) Anything over say 40" should have a 120 hertz frame rate if you wanna watch sports and blockbuster action movies(dark knight is the most popular 120 hertz movie). And video games tend to need higher rates(mostly shooters), but a good HDMI cable will fix any lag.
You have some details off here.
LCD tvs — even older ones, regardless of the light source — don’t have a problem with images getting stuck. If they did, computer screens (which are almost always LCD) would be brutalized with burn-in issues. Burn-in plagues plasma screens (and CRTs to a lesser extent), not LCDs. LCDs do suffer from dead pixels (a pixel that’s stuck on a certain color), but that’s not related to the type of backlight.
Plasma isn’t a liquid, unless you count the tiny amount of mercury vapor that’s in each cell. Each cell is basically a little fluorescent bulb, and the reason the colors are so sharp (especially the blacks) is that when the bulb is off, it’s truly not producing any light. When an LCD pixel is off, on the other hand, that means a shutter is closed, but the shutters aren’t perfect and so some of the backlight still seeps through — which means the blacks are really dark gray and the colors are slightly muted.
The 60 or 120 hertz refresh rate is an LCD term; plasma tvs don’t work in the same way and respond nearly instantaneously to changes. They are sometimes described as having a refresh rate of something like 600 hertz, but it’s more like a continuous change than a sweeping refresh and an effective 600 hertz screen probably changes more than 5x as fast as a 120 hertz LCD.
So basically, the plasma gives blacker blacks and somewhat sharper colors, has a faster refresh time, but consumes more power, can suffer image burn-in, and can’t really be done well for small screens.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
so basically plasmas offer the best quality but has durability issues whereas LCD image issues but are less prone to malfunction?
I stay with tube maybe.
But the avg plasma life is 20 years so still pretty good.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
yeah that isn’t too bad. I wonder though does quality just drop out or is there noticable decline over time. Kinda like lithium ion batterys in cordless drills vs standard nickel cadimium ones. It’s weird, I can be trucking along with my new drill and when the battery is used up the drill just stops dead. My old drill with the nicad battery, you knew before hand when the battery needed charging because of the waning power and speed of the drill.
I don’t know the answer to that. I’m hoping it just drops dead, but I’m guessing it’s probably the former which makes me sad.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
They may die, they may have an issue for a while. Mine started having these little red specs all over, and is getting worse as time passes. Don’t notice it much even so unless there’s a very dark shot, but it’s still happening.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 30, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
CRT is definitely the best if you don’t mind the bulk (and can still find one). My CRT would be my favorite tv if it were widescreen.
Plasma gives a nicer picture than LCD, and is what I went with for my last tv purchase.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I have one of those behemoths in the basement. I bet dollars to donuts that thing outlives all of us.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
I liked Nodl, but I’m not losing sleep over this.
We do need to pick up some more obscure nationalities for our roster, though. Maybe trade Shelley for Kopitar?
SB Nation Tennis -- Fuzzy yellow balls.
Broad Street Hockey.
If Homer pulls off Shelley for Kopitar he gets a free pass forever.
by hebrew hammer on Nov 29, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
...
Shelley for Kopitar?

I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Eklund floating rumor that Bobby Ryan might be available. Cherry Hill Native. Would anyone be willing to trade Schenn to get him?
Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011
Yes. But it’s from Eklund so it’s probably false. But you know that already.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I’d laugh if it wasn’t such a real possiblity.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
by doubleh on Nov 29, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm …. yeah, I’d be interested. But I’d rather trade any of the following:
Shelley, Briere, Hartnell, Walker, Leighton, or any combination up to and including all the above, rather than Schenn.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Why would they want those players? They want young, cap hit friendly players with high upsides.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Precisely my point as well.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Not just Eklund
A tweet by some reporter was picked up by NHL Home Ice this afternoon and they spent 5 minutes discussing the implications of this possibility. Apparently, lots of disgruntlement as well as possible budget troubles for 57 Freeway Hockey.
I want a “let’s get Ryan” thread. I can’t stand a lot of Homer moves, but this would be one of his classic good ones: “Get Talent.”
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's reported bloat-signing
true but walker and other various cap follys is the issue. A bit better cap management and we may have been able too keep him is my thinking.
You mean the two year contract they just gave him that pays LESS than his last one? I can sure see why that would be the contract I targeted to give away for nothing.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Nov 29, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, they got rid of his role more than they replaced him.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently they don't like x-mas carols and with that I agree.
There are much better songs for x-mas anyway.
¯¯¯¯¯¯Joyeux Nodl¯¯¯¯¯

\m/¯¯¯feel the satan¯¯¯\m/
Ray Diddinger
Is my hero. Just told off Marcus Hayes. OMG, I love him.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Nevermind
Just found the clip. http://www.the700level.com/11/29/11/Ray-Didinger-and-Marcus-Hayes-Go-At-It-O/landing_eagles.html?blockID=602662&feedID=8510
Thanks for the heads up!
Haven't read all 500 comments
Just want to add one thing:
Nodl may not have gotten as much as Powe for similar reasons to why the Flyers got fleeced on the Gagne trade. Teams know the following facts:
- the Flyers have lost a lot of good defensemen and will be out on the market trying to get one
- the Flyers are up against the contract limit and can’t get that defenseman
- the Flyers have a surplus of forwards and need to call up Brayden Schenn from the AHL
- Nodl is an odd man out and the Flyers will probably want to get rid of him
The Flyers don’t have much leverage there. Teams won’t offer much because they know the Flyers probably aren’t too high on the option of just keeping him if they don’t get a trade sorted. Most of the bottom teams in the league who could particularly do with a young developing defensive forward don’t want to give up draft picks (given they might be looking at rebuilding through the draft), particularly when they know that Homer might have no choice other than putting him through waivers.
Hence I would blame this Nodl scenario more to failure to control the contract limit, as opposed to the ‘why the fuck did Homer waive Nodl instead of try to trade him’ scenario.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 29, 2011 7:16 PM EST reply actions
Yeah most rational people complaining are complaining about the series of failures that lead to giving away Nodl for nothing; well that and the idiotic gauge interest statement.
This.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's reported bloat-signing
tl:dr
this is good… now we don’t have any extra picks for Homer to irrationally squander.
-tim
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood. ~ Daniel H. Burnham
farewell
seriously, we should all chip in a dollar and overnight a cup of nodl shirt to the Canes dressing room. a token of appreciation from fans.
-tim
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood. ~ Daniel H. Burnham
Hartnell FB post
“Let’s have an over/under #HartnellDowns in practice tomorrow. I will keep count!!! Love tweeeeeeet er”
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
So I’m reading Twitter and I just saw this:
D_LEED RT @BobbyCosta: @D_LEED Whats the latest news on who the flyers may be pursuing / They’re making calls. Carolina, perhaps. Maybe TB and CGY
So Dustin is answering this guy who is asking what he’s heard about possible Flyers trades and he says they are possibly talking with Carolina. So I ask:
sjkif @D_LEED you’re saying there’s a source who told you Homer is talking with Carolina? Why didn’t they hold Nodl and make him part of trade?
Waiting for an answer now. While waiting, he also respoded to a few more questions, not sure about this:
D_LEED RT @Brierefan: @D_LEED will Briere ever get permanent linemates? / When he’s consistent with wingers and playing well.
Not sure if that’s supposed to mean Briere isn’t playing well or it’s not worth tinkering with his linemates.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
And the response:
D_LEED @sjkif Source said Carolina is shopping defensemen and they’ve had discussions, yes. No guarantee deal is done between those teams. //
Canes could have known Flyers hands were tied with waivers, didn’t want to time up pick. Canes played smart.
Assuming there’s an auto correct error on the last line. Of course, backed into a corner, hands may have been tied, but I don’t see how, Cap room isn’t an issue or they could have sent Harry Z down; until the trade (if they couldn’t put Nodl in the deal) they don’t need the contract room. Since he’s been mentioned a few times, could they outright release Bacashuihua to get room for another contract and hang on to Nodl even if they don’t trade him to whomever they get a Dman from? DG? Geoff? Is it a minor league only contract?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 30, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
There is no feasible way to release Bacashihua outright at this time, despite all of our best hopes. He already has a valid set of waivers and doesn’t need re-entry, so he’d literally have to come up and play 10 games in order to be exposed to waivers again. I don’t think he’s in the mood to just walk away from his current paycheck because I don’t think he has another job lined up in his sights; and unless he decides to breach his contract there isn’t anything the team can do to terminate him at this point in the season.
Part of me wonders if they waived Nodl in an effort to get a quicker resolution, and didn’t want to spend the time shopping him (or others) to try to make contract space. It’s still incredibly stupid, because that same part of me isn’t sure if they even considered trying for a day before going the waiver route to gauge interest. Had Betts been healthy at the start of the season, I’m still fairly confident we could have at least gotten a pick for him in trade, but they were on a time limit when they waived him and needed an answer. That precedent is definitely influencing my idle speculation.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 30, 2011 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, just seems silly to me, as with all the moves the guys have been pointing out all day, if there was just one where Homer just said let’s wait and leave a little wiggle room we would never be having half these conversations.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 30, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions

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