Devils 4, Flyers 3 (SO): The good, the bad, and the defense
by Travis Hughes on Nov 3, 2011 10:45 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Flyers Game Recaps - 11-12
Email
Print[Recap] - [Game Page] - [New Jersey Reaction] - [Game Thread: 1, 2, 3]
[Box Score] - [Event Summary] - [PBP Log] - [TOI Log] - [Faceoff Report]
[Shift Charts] - [Head-to-Head TOI] - [Corsi and Fenwick] - [Zone Starts]
PHILADELPHIA -- A list of things that were good in tonight's game:
- Sergei Bobrovsky.
- Claude Giroux at the faceoff dot.
- Zac Rinaldo's goal.
- Max Talbot's penalty shot.
- Jaromir Jagr's awesomeness on Giroux's goal.
- Danny Briere's shootout goal that maybe should've been a not-goal but still was a goal.
This is a complete list. A list of things that were bad in tonight's game:
- Holy crap, the defense. TWELVE giveaways by the defenders alone, 18 total by the team. But 12 by the defense, and two directly led to goals. Matt Carle's giveaway in the third period, which led directly to New Jersey's game-tying goal, was particularly bad.
- Braydon Coburn. Every single thing about his night. Not one thing good happened
- Peter Laviolette's shootout decisions. Opting to shoot first (as he always does, and it usually comes down to stopping the final shooter, which never happens), putting Wayne Simmonds in to score the first goal. Just bad stuff.
- Zac Rinaldo's hit.
- The entirety of the second period.
- Not just the defensive players, but the entire team in their own end of the ice. That includes...
- ... the ability to break out of their own zone with anything that resembles anything positive.
- The Flyers blocked more shots (28) than they had shots on goal (23). That tells you just about everything you need to know. For the love of God, don't look at the Corsi chart above.
Questions with Answers
- How does Briere look in his first game back? That shootout goal was good enough for me.
- Johan Hedberg has been playing like a No. 1 goalie, so it's not as if the Flyers are getting a gift in missing Martin Brodeur. Who wins the goalie battle tonight? Hedberg was good. Bobrovsky was the only reason the Flyers got a point out of this game. He was phenomenal.
- The Devils have allowed a lot of goals lately -- 13 in the last three games. Can the Flyers exploit that tonight? Noooooooooope.
- Both teams played last night. Which team does this affect more? Who knows.
Comment of the Night
Yes, it was a charge, but it was also a clean hit.
>> LegionofDoom, channeling Zac Rinaldo logic
96 comments
|
Add comment
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
-21 is insane. That’s, like, Ryan Parent over four periods bad.
SB Nation Tennis -- Fuzzy yellow balls.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Nov 3, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
and the funny thing is, I never had the feeling he was playing bad, maybe it was because the defense gave the puck up left and right.
by Anders Jensen on Nov 3, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe we shouldn’t have him skating 25 and 27 minutes on consecutive nights, huh?
I root for the All-Hype Team.
by everybodyhitswoohoo on Nov 3, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, im not a big fan of depending too much on one guy, this is bad.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2psiu8g.gif
I think its a result of Shelley only playing 1 min and Rinaldo 2 min.
by Anders Jensen on Nov 3, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Shelley, as we all know and say over and over, is a waste of a bench spot and I wouldn’t mind seeing Rinaldo play a few more minutes per game, I just don’t understand why you have 2 guys on your bench that literally play like 5 minutes per game, and putting Giroux out there for a half a god damn hour. It is just flat out not a good coaching decision, don’t know how Lavs doesn’t see that.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2psiu8g.gif
Shootouts shootouts shootouts. We suck at shootouts and will never beat the Devils there. Fire the Hockey Gods.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
The shootouy can go to hell. And take the farging DH with it.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Nov 3, 2011 11:01 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
But the DH Creates Jobs In This Country! Baseball Jobs for Baseball People!
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
The NL is waging a war on power hitting. We don’t need to be punishing those who hit HRs.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I just want equality. I hate it so I’d rather get rid of it, but its here to stay so it should be in both leagues.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Nov 3, 2011 11:17 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Shootout. Damn autocorrect.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Nov 3, 2011 11:03 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Autocorrect replaced shootout with shootouy? Even autocorrect knows the shootout shouldn’t exist!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
my auyocorrecy is doing yhe same yhing. frusyraying.
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 4, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I might have to get used to the DH…
Shootouts are fucking terrible.
This station is non-operational
IT'S TEBOW TIME!
On the twitterverse
Well lets please not continue the shootout debate here…
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 3, 2011 11:07 PM EDT reply actions
Amen. Let it be spoken of no more…well, until we lose another that way.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 3, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Amen. Let it be spoken of no more…well, until we lose another that way.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 3, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, it sucks. Sorry. And not just because the Flyers historically suck at it. Thankfully, it’s not in postseason games. Praise be.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Nov 3, 2011 11:12 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
That said, in case people don't see it, I think an honorary mention for COTN is in order
1993 quarter from Denver
T, H, T, H, H, H, T, T, H, H
T, T, H, H, H, H, T, H, H, T
H, T, T, H, T, H, T, H, T, H
T, H, T, H, H, H, T, H, H, T
H, T, H, T, H, H, H, T, H, T
T, H, T, T, T, H, T, H, H, T
H, H, H, H, T, H, H, H, H, H,
T, T, H, T, T, T, T, H, H, H
Totals
H: 54
T: 46
Longest streak: 6 Ts
T, T, H, T, T, T, T, T, T, H
T, H, H, H, H, H, T, T, T, H
Editor at SB Nation’s Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
by Justin F. on Nov 3, 2011 11:14 PM EDT
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 3, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And the re-formatted edition because I hit enter in the wrong spot
1993 quarter from Denver
T, H, T, H, H, H, T, T, H, H
T, T, H, H, H, H, T, H, H, T
H, T, T, H, T, H, T, H, T, H
T, H, T, H, H, H, T, H, H, T
H, T, H, T, H, H, H, T, H, T
T, H, T, T, T, H, T, H, H, T
H, H, H, H, T, H, H, H, H, H,
T, T, H, T, T, T, T, H, H, H
T, T, H, T, T, T, T, T, T, H
T, H, H, H, H, H, T, T, T, H
Totals
H: 54
T: 46
Longest streak: 6 Ts
Editor at SB Nation’s Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
by Justin F. on Nov 3, 2011 11:14 PM EDT
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Now that I have gone back and looked at the game thread, I am disappointed to learn that this wasn’t a reference to this article.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Still a great article.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 4, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously. Eric is good at this thing.
SB Nation Tennis -- Fuzzy yellow balls.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Nov 4, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought of it, I searched for it, but could not find it.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I see three sides to a coin
As I flip it past my eye
Toss from hand to hand
You pick heads and I choose sides
And you scream ‘Tails, fool! Tails!’
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Well I’ve got a few that would pertain!
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Nov 4, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems my love is much like a coin
It lives through many needless excha—CH-CH-CH-Chaaanges.
Somehow this shape i still sustain
somehow this shape I still sustain
Let’s get FLAT!
/ sorry I couldn’t help but to finish it.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Nov 4, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I always enjoyed the nod to Bowie in that line
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
It’s such a good song. The Lyrics are awesome. I now must listen to JCS on my drive to my lady’s house before we depart for Dana Carvey live in Easton tonight. Thank you Hintzy you made my drive much more shackish!
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Nov 4, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright
it took quite some time, that is time relative to computer instant gratification time, to find this song.
LINK YOUR GOD DAMN MUSIC PEOPLE
Plus if wanna song-a-long, the link is the suprise ingredient, the flavor so to speak like
All SFW
Yawn. Let’s bring this classic back. After all, he was in the shootout, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwzBuN7jfjw
SB Nation Tennis -- Fuzzy yellow balls.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Nov 3, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I live in NY and was watching the Devils feed at the gym with the sound off. Let me tell you, Chico Resch sounds like a complete idiot even when he’s close captioned.
Maybe I didn’t see it in LA as much, but why does Simmonds always think he’s Giroux? Seriously, he turnover so much because he tries to make way to many moves.
Agreed, he should do what JvR is trying to do, drive the net, get the garbage goals. Create space for his linemates. Think he has been hurt by the fact that he doesn’t seem to have any chemistry with anyone yet.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 3, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I also agree .Especially with his long arm/leg span he seems to get caught up in other players equipment and bodies. In this game particularly he seemed to have milliseconds to get rid of the puck but didn’t.
by Gonzotatcics on Nov 3, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Precursor, I hate Coburn:
But really Coburn sucks a lot of the time, turnovers the tendency to score on his own team, turnovers, i just wish he wasn’t on the team.
Completely emotional response: I know hes actually pretty good at D
"For the crest on the front, not the name on the back"
I’d take Bob shooting from his own crease over Shelly.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 3, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s after midnight!!
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Nov 4, 2011 12:15 AM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Juuuussst beat me to it
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Nov 4, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Carle
Are the Flyers ever going to realize that Carle sucks. Pronger is the one that makes him look good. Without him, he’s horrible.
Read this and realize you are wrong.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 4, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Geoff, you know you converted me on Carle’s offensive abilities some time ago, but damn it seems like no one named Timonen (or when healthy, Pronger) can outlet pass recently! Carle’s giveaway lead direclty to a goal against us, and I’m having a very difficult time trying to forgive him for that at the moment.
And why does it look like we spend half the time passing backward when we’re trying to move up ice? And why is Mullen still running the powerplay?
/frustrationrant
Often wrong, but never in doubt.
by A Flyers Phamily on Nov 4, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, I wish I had answers for you.
All I can say on Carle is: Everyone has a bad game. The problem, I think, is two-fold;
1) Like Coburn from 2+ years ago, every mistake Carle makes is a big one, or ends up costing the Flyers. His mistakes are highlight reel mistakes that anyone can see; and/or
2) Many people dislike Carle, or at the least don’t trust him, and thus his mistakes are all they remember due to selective perception.
Surely there can be other explanations, but I offer you a stats answer (selective perception) and an eye-ball memory answer (Coburn from 09-10.)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 4, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
If I can view the subject matter subjectively (and it’s tough), it’s pretty interesting how I’ve gone from “Carle is great about getting the play up the ice” to “goddammit Carle!” in 13 games. I have to wonder if I’ve got some underlying bias…
Often wrong, but never in doubt.
by A Flyers Phamily on Nov 4, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, nah, it’s part of being a fan.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 4, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Pronger makes everyone look good. Not sure who Carle is playing with regularly, but one of the first games after Pronger was out I’m pretty sure it was Lilja and Carle looked horrible, what a surprise. Orr (Bobby, not Colton) would look ok with Lilja, not sure who else.
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 4, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
The ironic part is, relatively speaking, Pronger makes Carle look bad. Matt Carle over the past few years has been slightly better WITHOUT Chris Pronger has his partner.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
That would be the definition of irony. Literal truth/apparent truth is different from the actual truth. It also means my underlying supposition is wrong. I wonder if your conclusion, which I presume is based on the same statistical analysis as Geoff’s article, would be the same for the few games so far this year.
What’s even stranger about this truth is that I think a similar statistical analysis was used to demonstrate how much better the team was with Pronger in the lineup. So it’s wacky that his absence would harm the team but not the performance of the guy who “common sense” concludes would be harmed most.
by flyersfaninchicago on Nov 4, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the two times I looked at it, I used entirely different methods. In the most recent, I had Eric’s fantastic WOWY script. The first time, it was pretty half-assed.
There’s obvious sample size problems, and the fact that Andrej Meszaros helped improve Carle with Pronger gone, not to mention quality of competition decreases, but the part that makes me believe it to be true is the zone starts. Pronger/Carle are used in the offensive zone while Carle/Meszaros were used in the defensive.
It may not be actual truth, but it’s certainly enough for me to get angry every time I hear “Carle is nothing without Pronger.”
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 5, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Rinaldo...
I wasn’t the only one channeling his logic. The official on the ice even said it was a clean hit, minus the charging of course, Lol.
And I am sorry, but I hate the Devils and I loved seeing that hit happen, especially after I saw MSG bring out the Lindros/Stevens hit footage.
Good job El Guano Loco!
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
Corsi and Fenwick ignoracne
Can someone please direct me to an article that explains how to read CORSI and Fenwick charts?
Well, if you are referring to the link at the top, every label (Goals, Saved Shots, Missed Shots, and Blocked Shots) has two columns under it, one for Flyers and the second one for Opponents. Fenwick simply adds up the Flyers’ goals, saved shots, and missed shots and subtracts the Devils’ same. Corsi includes blocked shots. Put more simply, they are plus/minus metrics that counts shots instead of goals.
What you should always do first when you get to that page is look at the goalies’ numbers as it is the baseline for how the team did. So last night, the Flyers were a minus-22 Fenwick and minus-33 Corsi. If you want to see how the Flyers did with Sean Couturier on the ice, the Flyers outscored the Devils 1-0, were out-shot 5-4 (saved shots plus goals), the Devils missed 4 shots to the Flyers 0, and the Flyers blocked 5 Devils shots to only having 1 shot blocked by the Devils. Add it up, and he was a minus-5 Fenwick and minus-9 Corsi.
Then, before making any conclusions out of the numbers, it’s a good idea to look at zone start and head-to-head to see what the context is.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 4, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for that explanation. I understand what the Corsi and Fenwick numbers mean, I guess I was just confused by the two columns on the chart above. I figured one column was the Flyers and the other was the Devils, but Talbot’s numbers threw me off. Under goals, he has a 0 and a 3; however, he scored on a penalty shot. Shouldn’t the numbers be 1-3? Or, is it that penalty shots do not count because he was by himself on the ice, with Hedberg (sp?).
Rationale for Simmonds?
I wasn’t around for the GT last night but I get the sense that everybody had the same “what the…?” reaction to Simmonds shooting that I had. I don’t think he was the worst forward on the ice (Fenwick: -3, forwards avg=-5.25; Corsi: -10, forwards avg=-8), but he recently hasn’t shown the offensive capabilities he looked to have in the preseason. He certainly did not show anything during the game that made me terribly confident when he showed up at center ice to take the shot.
My only possible thought is that Laviolette is aware of the face that he is getting most of his offense from one line, and he wants to try to help guys like Simmonds by showing confidence in them in big situations. I’m not sure if that sounds plausible, but it at least makes more sense to me than him thinking that Simmonds had a better chance of scoring than, say, Jagr, who continues to look dangerous in the offensive zone at all times. Since shootouts are such a coinflip, who knows if it really would have made a difference.
I was watching at the bar last night with no sound. What was the beef with Briere’s shootout goal? Were they checking to see if he went backwards?
Also, FUCKING TURNOVERS!!!!! GAH!!!!!!!!!!!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Checking to see if he stopped his forward progression. He evidently continued moving forward.
I will always over-value prospects and over-hype rookies. I can't help it.
"Follow me, as I ogle at some gigglesome prospect statistics." -bobbykelly, Silver Seven SB Nation Senators blog
by LeepinLizardz on Nov 4, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Lavy stats there is a percentage in your favor if you score the 1st goal in the SO while shooting 1st. Sounds like an advanced stat to me.
Also complaining at all about who the coach sends out in a SO is a waste of time. If Simmonds scored (which he has 33% chance of doing) he is a genius if not (66% of doing) he is an idiot.
Either way it is really hard to win a shootout when you goalie gives up 2 goals.
Rinaldo charge
sorry if I’m a little ignorant on the rules and such, but what exactly is charging? watching the game last night I thought that was a beautiful check. I thought charging was taking several strides before the hit? I don’t know, seemed ok to me.
Usually charging is called when a player takes more than three steps before a body check. Rinaldo was called because of the distance he traveled before making contact. I didn’t like the call.
The rulebook is a little vague.
Here’s a link to how the refs treat it in practice. He basically says there’s no specific standard on distance traveled or number of strides for determining whether a check is too violent, that it’s a subjective decision of whether the hit was more violent than should be allowed under whatever today’s standard guidelines of violence are. However, he says that any time a player leaves his feet to deliver a hard check, charging can and should be called.
I’ve watched the video here a bunch of times and I’m pretty sure he jumped before contact, but it’s hard to say for certain.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Something to say? Choose one of these options to log in.
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Broad Street Hockey
Related FanShots on Broad Street Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Watch Ilya Kovalchuk’s Game 6 goal for Devils, a.k.a. power-play porn (VIDEO)
- Devils look to eliminate Rangers in Game 6; Hal Gill’s broken tibia (Playoff Puck Previews)
- Conan O’Brien joins long list of LA media that don’t really know what’s going on with the Kings
- For Los Angeles Kings, when does rest become rust for Stanley Cup Final?
- Dominik Hasek wants NHL return; Tortorella on Game 6; Nash to Boston? (Puck Headlines)
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- Scotty Bowman receives Order of Canada
- Simon Gagne enjoying LA Kings' success, returns to practice after concussion absence
- Gagne back at practice, enjoying Kings' success
- First-place Knights go sight-seeing while awaiting Memorial Cup final
- NHL Network and NHL.com unveil comprehensive coverage plans for the 2012 Stanley Cup Final
