Chris Pronger out for the season: Crying and other initial reaction

by Travis Hughes on Dec 15, 2011 8:55 PM EST in Philadelphia Flyers Commentary

Chris Pronger called last season the year from Hell. Injuries kept him out for all but 53 games, including playoffs, and the Flyers were not the same team without him. While a lot of people blame last year's poor playoff performance on goaltending or whatever else, I firmly believe a lot of it had to do with missing No. 20.

If last season was the year from Hell, though, what is this year? And what about the next five years of his contract?

The Flyers announced tonight that, after Pronger met with concussion experts at UPMC in Pittsburgh, he'll be out for the season with "severe" post-concussion syndrome. I don't know the difference between severe post-concussion syndrome and regular old post-concussion syndrome, which I also assumed was pretty bad. But this obviously is horrible news.

The Flyers are without their best defenseman -- their captain -- for the rest of the season and the playoffs.

It's been at least an hour since the news came out as of this writing, and I still have that sinking pit feeling in my stomach. It's just a total blow to the gut, even if we kind of all knew this was a possibility anyway. I don't think we assumed it'd become this bad this quick, and now we have to deal with the reality. It absolutely sucks in every single way.

It's really tough to round up the emotions on this one. You feel bad for Chris Pronger himself, one of the best defensemen to ever play the game, and a man who clearly doesn't deal with sitting out of the lineup all that well. You feel bad for the entire team, because they all know how much Pronger means to their club, and without him, there's no hiding the gaping hole on the blueline and in the locker room.

The first reaction, really, is one of "I told you so." I don't think there's a Flyers fan in the world that actually thought Pronger would finish out his lengthy contract, which still has five years remaining on it after this one. I don't think Pronger thought he'd finish that deal, and I don't think Paul Holmgren did either.

But we always assumed Pronger's downfall would come thanks to one of those "hey, I'm just old" injuries. A bum knee. A bad back. That's not the case here. It's a concussion, and that can really happen to anybody. It could happen to an old dude, a young dude, a baby girl, Claude Giroux or Chris Pronger. It's the kind of injury that doesn't discriminate, and that's also part of what's so awful about it.

At the same time, we have to be careful to jump to conclusions. It all sounds very bad, but a lot of people are talking tonight like this is the end of Pronger's career. Like he'll never play another game in the NHL. Hell, every one of those paragraphs I just wrote sounds a lot like that. It's a natural reaction, I think, and it's one that's based in a lot of fear. I'm sure Pronger is having the same exact thoughts tonight as he sits and watches the game against the Canadiens from his couch.

In reality, that could very well be the case, but that's something we don't know for sure now. Concussions and head injuries are bizarre things, and who knows how this will go. I doubt the doctors even know for sure.

There's a lot more wait and see here for us. There's the long-term question: What will become of Chris Pronger's career? What will become of his 35-plus contract if he can never play again? (Although we know the answer to that -- ask Ian Laperriere and Mike Rathje.)

There's short-term question: What will Paul Holmgren do to replace him right now?

There's mid-term question: How will the Flyers fare the rest of the year knowing that they're without their captain?

We'll have plenty of time in the coming days to think about what the next step is, but for now, it's hard to get past just how much this sucks. In every possible way. Get well soon, Prongs.

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Who the hell is this guy? Saying we should trade Schenn for Gonchar what a buffoon

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by The Legend on Dec 15, 2011 8:58 PM EST reply actions

Marc Crawford? He’s probably in line for the Sens coaching job and wants Gonchar gone before he takes over. Ignore him.

by mtitanic on Dec 15, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions

I verbally raped him on Twitter. His incompetence is unprecedented. #fucktard

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by DannyMcG on Dec 15, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions

I think you should do it. You need a defenceman now.

Please… do it.

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by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 16, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Rec’d for transparency.

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by iJewJitsu on Dec 16, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions

So who gets the ‘C’ now? I’m sure you can make the case for Giroux but I’d like to see Kimmo get it. He’d make a good captain.

by ricker2005 on Dec 15, 2011 9:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions

They don’t have to name a new captain, they could just have 3 Alternate Captains, which is what they do when a captain is out for a short amount of time. Because Pronger is out for the rest of the year (a long term injury, obviously) they are allowed to name a new captain if they want to. My pick would be Timo, and then G would take his Alternate captain spot.

Awaiting the return of the G-stache

by Philly37 on Dec 15, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions

Anyone wanna throw an A Jagr’s way?

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by philiafan14364 on Dec 15, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions

Thought he had one on tonight?

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by MajorSuccess on Dec 15, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions

He did. And I think Talbot wore one a few weeks ago when 2 people were hurt, as well.

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by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 15, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions

I think this is how it works:
C-Pronger
A-Timmonen
A-Briere
When Pronger is injured-
A-Timmonen
A-Briere
A-Giroux
G would just take Briere/Timonen’s spot if they were injured
If both Pronger and G/Briere/Timo were injured (now)-
A-Timonen
A-Briere
A-Talbot/Jagr

Awaiting the return of the G-stache

by Philly37 on Dec 16, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions

I’m so sorry, guys. Pens fans know what you’re going through.

I believe in Geno.

by Cari on Dec 15, 2011 9:11 PM EST reply actions

Cindy was never a real captain.

by koh on Dec 15, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions

Kind of a dick thing to say to someone who was just being nice.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 15, 2011 10:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Thanks for being a jackass.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 15, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions

This is why everyone has a thing against Flyers fans.

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by Chemistry66 on Dec 15, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions

I’ve never even seen this commentor before so take your act back to where ever it came from

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by MJDII on Dec 16, 2011 4:47 AM EST up reply actions

He’s only made 8 comments in the past 10 months. Clearly a troll account.

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by Ubiquitous on Dec 16, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions

Thank you for your 8th comment ever. To you I say: Bob.

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by hintzy64 on Dec 16, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions

Thanks Cari. Much appreciated.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 15, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions

Thanks, really. Yes we now have a common bond, besides living in the same damn State. We want to see Sid and Claude and (the list is too long) get better, if only because we can then go back to trashing each other! Hockey is obviously better when our stars are healthy.

by Flyers on Dec 15, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions

Thanks. Appreciate the sympathy. Hopefully your captain gets better soon too. I wouldn’t wish post-concussion syndrome on my worst enemy.

I <3 our rookies.

by LeepinLizardz on Dec 15, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions

Thank you.
That is why these concussions are so scary. The Pens probably waited forever to bring Crosby back. I am sure he had to pass his baseline tests for a solid month and yet that concussion was just sitting and waiting. Crosby/Giroux/Pronger is good for the game of hockey. Hopefully all can get healthy.

by We are Legion on Dec 15, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions

Pronger

Has long been one of the best defensemen in the league and is a first ballot Hall of Famer in my mind. But at 37 years old and back to back injury-plagued seasons, this could be it

by Guess Who's Back? on Dec 15, 2011 9:11 PM EST reply actions

Worth it?

This might raise a question, whether trading for him was worth it if this is it. Considering assets thas went the other way, I am inclined to say YES. It definitely fun to watch him play in O&B.

by Matko37 on Dec 16, 2011 2:19 AM EST up reply actions

Sad, sad news.

Prongs was crucial to the Ducks’ 2007 Cup run, and it’s really troubling to see the final years of his career unfold this way.

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by light_the_lamp on Dec 15, 2011 9:18 PM EST reply actions

Thanks for the sympathy :(

I <3 our rookies.

by LeepinLizardz on Dec 15, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions

You’re welcome.

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by light_the_lamp on Dec 16, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions

Pronger

The resilience of hockey players makes us forget the abuse they receive in a game. .Pronger got hit in the eye we were worried about his vision kind of overlooking that he took full blown follow through with a stick blade to the head. It has been a while since I felt a stick to the face at all, let alone one like that. REally we should not be surprised – the fact that we are speaks to the courage and toughness of the weakest of these guys let alone Pronger. Get well, man.

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by Fr. Orange and Black on Dec 15, 2011 9:24 PM EST reply actions

THIS BLOWS

What I’d do:

1. Briere or Kimmo named captain, whichever one doesn’t get C gets an A, Talbot gets the other A just because he’s such a hard worker, leads by example, great locker room guy/team player.

2. Try like hell to get Shea Weber and then sign him long-term, wishful thinking but that would be ideal.

3. Rest the shit out of Giroux for even longer than you think you should just to be double super extra safe because if he ends up like Crosby i’m gonna fall asleep to the sound of my own screams for the rest of eternity.

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by DannyMcG on Dec 15, 2011 9:28 PM EST reply actions

is a fun idea, and I agree with you that it is probably a pipedream considering our cap constraints.

But the scary part about resting these guys is that even with the rest and the testing, concussions are sometimes just hiding. You know that Pronger passed all of his baseline tests and was showing no symptoms when he came back. And you can imagine how patient the Pens were with Crosby and yet here they are shitting a brick right now.

by We are Legion on Dec 15, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions

correction “#2” is a fun idea

by We are Legion on Dec 15, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions

probably a pipedream considering our cap constraints

Is it though?

We’re about to send 5 million to LTIR and Weber is on a 1 year deal.

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#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 15, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions

He’s been on LTIR. We don’t have the cap space. Forget about it.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 15, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions

But that 4.9M has already been on LTIR and we’ve been using part of it already. So we have, at best, something like 4M in LTIR space to go get a 7.5M guy… And Nashville isn’t going to part with him for guys like Walker or Leighton, so not only do we need a lot more cap space, we probably need to make significant moves. And who are we really willing to give up that we don’t need to play right now?

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by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 15, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions

Oh, we’ll never get him without giving up guys who are already playing now. He’s too good. Whoever goes will be someone we’ll miss, and likely regret letting go somewhere along the line. I guess the price will be at least one defenseman – Giving up one of Coburn, Carle or Meszaros would be self defeating, so likely a prospect who has impressed us lately, such as one of Bourdon, Marshall, or Gustafsson. One of the better forwards, perhaps Voracek, too…and possibly some of the picks we’ve got piled up. Maybe more, 4th liners, if only to make the cap work.

I definitely think we should be looking at making this deal, though. Pronger makes such a big difference to this team, but sadly I don’t expect to see him on the ice again. Brought to the club too late in his career, alas. Timonen won’t be around for much longer, either. We could be seriously lacking on the blueline in a year or two, and Weber is seemingly available, when’s the next chance we’ll have to bring in a player of such huge quality? This guy is perennial Norris calibre.

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by McGonigle on Dec 16, 2011 5:21 AM EST up reply actions

I definitely think we should be looking at making this deal, though.

Why? Let’s wait a little and see how the team does without him. We don’t need a knee-jerk reaction to this. I know this is short-sighted in the opposite direction, but we’re in 1st and have won 7 straight. I think we need time to determine if there’s a need to make a move or not. Let’s chill and see what happens.

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by hintzy64 on Dec 16, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions

Yes. There were so many unknowns with this team at the start of the season. The defense was supposed to be relatively known. Now this also is an unknown. You have to have some period of stability to try things out.

/s, more often than not

by flyersfaninchicago on Dec 16, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions

One of the better forwards, perhaps Voracek, too…

Agreed. Voracek hasn’t impressed me that much this season. Maybe Carle and Voracek?

Awaiting the return of the G-stache

by Philly37 on Dec 16, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions

Voracek and Carle rank 1st and 2nd on the team in CorsiRel. Voracek is third on the team – behind Jagr and Giroux – in points per 60 minutes of ES time.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

Give away one of our top defensemen to fill a spot on defense? I understand you view it as an upgrade, but still.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Dec 16, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions

My thinking was that Carle’s deal ends at the end of the year, as opposed to Coburn and Mez, who have more time left on their deals….but maybe that was the wrong way to think of it.

Awaiting the return of the G-stache

by Philly37 on Dec 16, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions

Ah, I see. Hadn’t considered that angle.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Dec 16, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions

spew in this

I’m with you Travis. I feel sick to my stomach. This is devastating news on all fronts. To try to find a positive – FMAB and Gus have an opportunity to really take the next step. I look forward to their future development but for now I just want to throw up.

by McNabbSoup on Dec 15, 2011 9:38 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions

The bright side

The Flyers learned how to play without Pronger last year. It got rough at times. But they have looked more comfortable this year without him than they did last year. I see a lot more collapsing back and defensive support and less standing around.

This really sucks, but there’s nothing else we (or he) can do right now. Let’s just hope for the best for Chris and his family. Get well soon, Chris.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 15, 2011 10:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

This. +1

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Dec 16, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions

I don’t think there’s a Flyers fan in the world that actually thought Pronger would finish out his lengthy contract, which still has five years remaining on it after this one.

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by Eric T. on Dec 15, 2011 10:57 PM EST reply actions

I just re-read that thread. Amazing. In particular, most of the bloglords and regulars got it very, almost spookily, right. (Mattx, wherever you are, not so much).

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by Bud in TN on Dec 16, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions

I had no idea that his symptoms were this bad, but shutting him down completely is absolutely the best thing they can do. I had just gotten home when I saw them start talking about it on the pre-game show, and I literally had to work up the strength to come on to BSH this time. I know what it’s like to live with concussion damage long term, and I sincerely hope that he is able to take however much time he needs to heal so that he doesn’t have to deal with it any longer than he has to.

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by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 15, 2011 11:13 PM EST reply actions

:( :(

god dam this news hurts :( flyers can survive regular season without pronger but not sure how they will fare in playoffs without him :( big blow as we lose our captain……..who will fill the void?

by yus_44 on Dec 15, 2011 11:14 PM EST reply actions

Isn’t it a bit early to even be hinting at this being the end of the road for Pronger?

My bold prediction: he’s in the lineup opening day 2012.

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by philiafan14364 on Dec 15, 2011 11:17 PM EST reply actions

Isn’t it a bit early to even be hinting at this being the end of the road for Pronger?

Given this season and last year? Not at all.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 15, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions

Its not like their going to be hitting him on the head every day to see if he’s actually better. 96% of people with PCS are symptom free after 6 months.

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by philiafan14364 on Dec 15, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions

There’s nothing wrong with optimism, it’s just that this total shutdown is necessary is order for your prediction to have a chance of being accurate. That statistic is probably weighted in favor of the less severe cases, but just because his chances might be lower doesn’t necessarily mean Pronger will never play again.

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by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 15, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions

Also amusing:

At the same time, we have to be careful to jump to conclusions.

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by Eric T. on Dec 15, 2011 11:32 PM EST reply actions

I’m a people person!!!

G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*

by JerseyDriver on Dec 16, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions

Given this, the Giroux injury and even the Crosby injuries, I don’t like hockey as much as I did last year. The fact that any player at any time could be rendered totally incapacitated at any time is not good for the game, at all. I recently bought a Giroux jersey and I’m wondering if I just spent all that $ in vain because of his injury. I don’t know if he’ll be back this year, either. This frustration, that anyone can fall victim at any time, and compound that by the long-term effects these things have- well, you’ll notice I’m not typing a given word because it makes me sick just typing it.

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by goldomatic on Dec 15, 2011 11:40 PM EST reply actions

There’s definitely an epidemic in hockey, but it’s not like other sports are immune. When David Wright and Hideki Kuroda got severe concussions like 24 hours apart (or maybe they were the same day) is was darn scary then too. It’s been a bad year for hockey no doubt, in a multitude of ways, but I think a lot of sports have to live with the shadow that a concussion can happen at any time. The NHL is certainly hogging the spotlight at the moment, I agree with you there.

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by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 15, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions

It sure seems like it’s a bad year in general. Football has had quite a number too. Hockey’s maybe more noticible because of the leading scorer, number one superstar, HOF defenseman, etc. affected.

The other thing is our usual confirmation bias thing. I’d be interested to see how many more concussions there ends up being at the end of the year vs the historical average.

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by iJewJitsu on Dec 16, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions

This is some sad, sad news. But look on the bright side. He’s been out of the lineup since November 19th (did I get my dates right?), and we’re playing incredibly well even without him and G. Not saying that’s sustainable. But considering we now have a FMAB:BAMF on our hands, Marshall playing respectably well, Kimmo, Brayden, and Andrej all playing really well, along with Matt Carle, our defense still looks pretty good. Along with that, our rooks have been stepping up like nobody expected. I like this team. I’d like them even more with Prongs and G in the lineup, but I like them now.

That being said, get well soon Pronger. And I’m extending that to G as well.

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by MajorSuccess on Dec 15, 2011 11:42 PM EST reply actions

This sucks. Would hate to see a guy’s illustrious career end like this.

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by PensAreYourDaddy on Dec 16, 2011 12:18 AM EST reply actions

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by ThatsGoodKoolAid on Dec 16, 2011 1:11 AM EST reply actions

If we all feel this crappy about Pronger, think about how bad we’re going to feel when Claude gets the same recommendation.

by ThatsGoodKoolAid on Dec 16, 2011 1:39 AM EST reply actions

dont even say that…all indications are that G’s isn’t nearly as bad

by aPHILLYated on Dec 16, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions

Cuz Homer’s never held anything back when reporting on injuries before, right?

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
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by hintzy64 on Dec 16, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions

your definitely right on that. it still seems a little early to insinuate that G is going to get the same prognosis though

by aPHILLYated on Dec 17, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions

This is so deflating. Pronger transforms our defense from good to elite. Such a terrible loss. I’m still confident in our top 4 though. All 4 have been great over the last few years and I’m confident they’ll keep it up. All we need from the kids are 3rd pairing minutes against weaker competition. Our defense isn’t going to need to be great with the offense we have

by aPHILLYated on Dec 16, 2011 2:01 AM EST reply actions

If it turns out to have been the eye-related injury there are some parallels with Bernie Parent. Bernie went straight from the crease to the bench after he got hit like Pronger did. And it will be interesting to see if the shield issue comes back, as I’m pretty sure Bernie’s injury quickened the change to the helmet and cage.

/s, more often than not

by flyersfaninchicago on Dec 16, 2011 2:36 AM EST reply actions

So question for DG whenever she see it, is there a possibility of unconditional waivers (or $125 waivers) for Pronger? I’ve seen it used the last two seasons when a guy is not going to play anymore (or going to Russia or something) and both he and the team agree to this. Not sure if the 35+ thing or his being injured affects this or not. Just wanted to know if that was a possible factor if Chris decides after the season or next season if he can’t play anymore.

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by JerseyDriver on Dec 16, 2011 6:28 PM EST reply actions

Unconditional waivers are basically a prelude to terminating a contract via a buyout (Paragraph 13) or breach of contract (Paragraph 14). Sure, both sides can agree to breach a contract, like we did with Lehtivuori over the summer, but that won’t get Pronger off the cap. Even if one wanted to make an argument that you could slip it in under Paragraph 14 (I’m not inclined to do so myself), the NHL is just going to invoke Article 26 (Circumvention) and rule against it; and then treat it as if Pronger voluntarily retired.

Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 16, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions

In other words, if it ends up that Pronger is not going to be able to play next year; then we’ll pray we get a round of cap-free buyouts in the new CBA like we did in 2005. There’s no guarantee that’ll happen, but it’s a possibility especially if the cap is going to drop.

Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 16, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions

Thanks, figured it was too good to be true, just thought of it as I was talking with a few friends about this after one of them brought up the fact that Homer mentioned insurance. Told them as far as I knew without the the new CBA buy out miracle (should it occur) the Flyers are pretty screwed if Prongs can’t come back and play, or decides to retire, not ride out his contract on LTIR.

As another thought, since he’s already there, is there some way anyone can think of that they close the LTIR loophole retroactively in the new CBA, or is that impossible?

And further, since the league seems to look the other way with Lappy, who is obviously not coming back, can Pronger move to Colorado and go on with his life while still being on LTIR, or does he need to at least appear to be trying?

G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*

by JerseyDriver on Dec 16, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions

I don’t think they’ll be able to “close” it retroactively, but I think they might be able to alter the way it’s used. For example, they may hypothetically change it so that you can only get up to the NHL average salary in LTIR relief per player on LTIR. So by that I mean that if you have a player like Lappy making 1.1M, you can get 1.1M in relief. But for a player like Pronger who makes more than the average salary (which was 2.4M in 2010-11), you only get up to 2.4M in LTIR relief to put toward the replacement player(s). They may say that a player can only spend up to 2 consecutive seasons on LTIR (as in one stint, not a cumulative 2 years of small injuries added up during the life of a contract), and give them a special buyout process for career ending injuries; but if so that would probably be taken out of the team’s hands and require the NHL to have independent doctors investigate the extent of the injury.

We should remember that, in my opinion, the 35+ rules in the CBA were meant to prohibit teams from signing lengthy 35+ contracts, or at least make them think really hard about it and consider the consequences before doing so. The sanctions are harsh for a reason, and they don’t want to make it easy for clubs to get out from under those contracts. Take independently and ignoring other teams who’ve used the loophole, I think Lappy’s 3 year contract at half the league’s average salary is an annoyance that might make them address the LTIR loophole somewhat, but Pronger at 5 years with a big cap hit would be an extreme case that will definitely cause them to push for it to be changed in the next agreement.

Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 17, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions