Friday Morning Fly By: How Do You Replace Pronger? Obviously, Just Go Get Shea
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2011 6:08 AM EST
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers-related news and notes...
- Recaps: [BSH] [CSNPhily] [Inquirer] [Philly Sports Daily] [The Checking Line] [Flyers Faithful]
- Chris Pronger is out for the season and the playoffs with severe post-concussion symptoms: [BSH] [SBN Philly] [On The Fly] [delcotimes.com] [CSNPhilly] [NHL.com] [Philly Sports Daily] [The Checking Line] [Puck Daddy] [Flyers Faithful]
- 24/7 Recaps: [SB Nation Philly] [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy] [Backhand Shelf]
- The Flyers think Sean Couturier has earned a shot on the top line: [NHL.com]
- Harry Zolnierczyk moved to center, but it all makes me ask where Blair Betts is: [CSNPhilly]
- Thursday practice update on Tom Sestito, Michael Leighton, Eric Wellwood, Oskars Bartulis, and line combinations: [Phantoms Forum]
- Tomas Vokoun is struggling like Ilya Bryzgalov was at the beginning of the year. Vokoun offers some analysis on his poor play of late: [Washington Times]
- Why everyone should root for the Coyotes to win the Stanley Cup as their second choice: [The Copper & Blue]
- Responding to Eric's zone entry work: [Driving Play]
- It's not the coaches who are to blame when teams struggle to the point of needing to make a move: [Hockey Prospectus]
- Eric thinks he found a way to win the shot quality prize, using shots after faceoffs to prove it: [Arctic Ice Hockey]
- From Ben: Remember when everyone was mad at Habs Inside/Out for saying indefensible things? Deja vu all over again... [EOTP]
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I’m sure it has been discussed and maybe it’s in the works but some of us need a break down on how the cap will be handled in Pronger’s absence, long term. If he retires does his money come off the cap?
At his age with the prospect of long term concussion management Pronger should retire. He is no kid and his career is at the end, why would he take a year off and then at 37 start the process of returning to game shape. At his age it might not even be possible. I mean in order for him to be the player he would expect to be again.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
He also has a wife and two young sons to think about. That alone tells me he has to retire.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2psiu8g.gif
Actually, if he can’t return to hockey, being placed on LTIR works best for him and the Flyers. If he retires, he gets no additional salary and the Flyers just have to eat his cap hit. If there’s an amnesty buyout period, the Flyers could get him off the books with no cap penalty and Pronger would get 2/3 of his contract; but we may not know if Pronger’s done for his career when the buyout period happens and it would prevent the Flyers from buying out someone else (like Briere?). If Pronger has to retire, put him on LTIR, pay him his full salary and use the cap space on someone else. Sure, most teams can’t afford to do things this way, but the Flyers CAN.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Is this similar to the Lappy situation?
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It is except the number is more than 4 times larger.
by hebrew hammer on Dec 16, 2011 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
This way, as well, he can keep around the team, maybe even spend some time with the Phantoms. And that’s not just for our good in the development of the team, I think it’d be good for Pronger.
One of the more worrisome symptoms of a concussion is some people get severe depression. I’d rather Pronger, as much as possible, be around Flyers staff, trainers, teammates, coaches and fans to try and keep him occupied and positive. Not saying he should be away from his family, but I think for a guy like him, sitting around the house for 7-8 months might just drive him to lower depths. Keeping him engaged also means people can keep an eye on him.
Critical question is whether it is an “amnesty” or “regular” buyout.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
If he retires – his money stays on the cap
If he is permanently placed on LTIR – the Flyers will be able to spend Chris Pronger’s salary above the cap
If the new CBA lets us buy out his contract – the Flyers will do that
For this season at least, Pronger will be placed on LTIR. We’ll have to see what happens after that. I am sure that Prongs doesn’t want to cap strap the Flyers for all of eternity – particularly because his cap hit will run through the period when most of this young team hits their prime – so I imagine he won’t be retiring. However if the CBA decides to attack deals like this (which I seriously doubt, thanks to how important Comcast is), then we’re fucked for all of eternity and may miss out on winning a cup because of this…
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 16, 2011 6:28 AM EST up reply actions
Well, you pretty much just answered a question that I asked about Pronger/salary cap like a millisecond before you posted this lol so thanks
SHEA COMES WITH HIS OWN RESTAURANT!!!!!^^^
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Please read the Shea Weber fanpost thread. This isn’t happening, or you don’t want it to happen, and it has NOTHING to do with the cap. Weber will cost MORE than Pronger did, especially if a trade would be done during the season.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
This is why I hate the 35 and over contract. I get the point of it, so teams don’t sign a 35 yr old stud to a 15 year contract to get his cap hit down and then cut him after 3 years but in cases like this, where someone has to retire due to injury then the contract should be removed from the equation. It’s not entirely the same but when Brandon Roy retired he took a Medical Retirement which does exactly what I just said, it takes the contract off the books and I believe he is not allowed to return until after that contract runs out(which he won’t), or if he does return then that contract goes back on the books.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I like that a lot, as long as there are clear cut rules to prevent cap circumvention.
by hebrew hammer on Dec 16, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
The Flyers signed a 35 year old to a 7 year contract to get his cap hit down. His salary this year is $7.6 million, but his cap hit is only $4.9 million.
The Flyers circumvented the cap with the contract, didn’t understand the CBA, and now have to deal with the consequences.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t disagree with any of that, and the Flyers should have to pay for their mistakes. Even in the Brandon Roy situation, he still get’s paid even on Medical Retirement it just doesn’t count against the cap, so it’s not like the team get’s away scott free.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
But the team does get three years of ~$2.6 million extra cap space they shouldn’t have had, then their only punishment is having their owner write a check?
I just find it funny that Flyers fans want NHL punishment to be that Ed Snider pays a guy not to play hockey. Because that’s such a punishment, he hasn’t done it for each of the last 6 years. That’s not a punishment at all.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
It’s not the Flyers specifically that I am concerned with, I think the issue with the 35 + contract is that it ignores the fact that the older you are the more likely you are to break down. I get the rule and why it exists, and I don’t have a problem with the rule being in place as it’s intended purpose makes sense.
Honestly I would rather they just get rid of guaranteed contracts all together.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Well, we disagree. The 35+ contract rule doesn’t ignore the fact that older players are more likely to break down, it’s in place precisely because of that fact.
It is there to act as a disincentive for teams to sign multi-year contracts to older players. The Flyers didn’t think he was a 35+ contract, so they thought he would just retire if this happened.
Had the Flyers understood the CBA, would they have signed Pronger to this deal? I highly, highly doubt it.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
So is the argument that in order to prevent rich teams from being able to retire contracts from the cap hit, you can’t use an injury exemption because it’s subjective and open to abuse? The healthy older player says he’s had enough, or the team suggests it with a buyout offer, and suddenly the team doctor says his back is shot.
And the fact that the LTIR exemption offers the same solution doesn’t remove the deterrent because it is only in effect during the season, thus restricting rich teams in their off-season signings and trades, when it is most likely they’ll sign these older guys to high-dollar contracts.
Are LTIR moves subject to medical verification by the league?
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Dec 16, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
LTIR moves are subject to the Club’s physician, but the League can challenge the determination:
50.10(d)
If, however, the League wishes to challenge the determination of a Club physician that a Player is unfit to play for purposes of the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception, the League and the NHLPA shall promptly confer and jointly select a neutral physician, who shall review the Club physician’s determination regarding the Player’s fitness to play.
I don’t remember the League ever challenging an LTIR determination, nor enforcing the fact that clubs are using it as a loophole to get around the 35+ retirement clause.
In the next CBA, the loophole may not exist. But the NHLPA will surely fight to keep it open – it artificially increases the salary cap, thus giving more money to players – as will large market teams that exploit it. The question is whether the small market teams will be able/willing to close it.
But as it stands, the only punishment for long-term 35+ contracts is the inability to get cap relief by sending the player to the minors and the potential for bonus penalties for teams who end the year over the cap.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
In reality, it’s pretty rare for a guy that’s good enough to get a significant 35+ Contract to fall off so badly that they need to be demoted or cut, isn’t it? I can’t think of anyone off the top of my head, anyway.
Players that are good into their mid 30’s mostly hit the end of the line, if it’s mid-contract anyway, due to injury, or so it seems based on my memory.
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It’s pretty rare for a guy to get a significant 35+ contract period. A list:
Andreas Lilja – 2 years, will be 37 when deal is over.
Todd Bertuzzi – 2 years, will be 37 when deal is over.
Saku Koivu – 2 years, will be 37 when deal is over.
Andy Sutton – 2 years, will be 37 when deal is over.
Adrian Aucoin – 2 years, will be 38 when deal is over.
Tomas Holmstrom – 2 years, will be 39 when deal is over.
Roman Hamrlik – 2 years, will be 39 when deal is over.
Ray Whitney – 2 years, will be 40 when deal is over.
Jaroslav Spacek – 3 years, will be 38 when deal is over.
Ian Laperriere – 3 years, will be 38 when deal is over.
Sergei Gonchar – 3 years, will be 39 when deal is over.
Brian Rolston – 4 years, will be 39 when deal is over.
Ed Jovanovski – 4 years, will be 39 when deal is over.
Tim Thomas – 4 years, will be 39 when deal is over.
Martin St. Louis – 4 years, will be 40 when deal is over.
Daniel Alfredsson – 4 years, will be 40 when deal is over.
Nikolai Khabibulin – 4 years, will be 40 when deal is over.
Chris Pronger – 7 years, will be 42 when deal is over.
In the NHL, there are currently only 18 players on 35+ contracts. Only one is for more than 4 years. Only one will take the player past age 40. Both are Chris Pronger.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Just eyeballing that list, Rolston might be a guy that NJD wanted to get rid of while he still had life on the contract.
The others…not so much.
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A not-exactly-related question: if the NHL were like the NFL and contracts weren’t guaranteed, would Tim Thomas have been a Bruin last year?
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Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I don’t remember the League ever challenging an LTIR determination, nor enforcing the fact that clubs are using it as a loophole to get around the 35+ retirement clause.
This happened in the opposite direction, when the NHLPA challenged Teppo Numminen being on the LTIR. This was because he signed the contract while he was recovering from heart surgery, so it explicitly didn’t pay him anything until he was declared fit to play.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
Interesting. I don’t remember that.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
That’s not quite the case as I remember it. From what I remember, he signed the contract, then was diagnosed with the heart problem and had emergency open-heart surgery, and the Sabres suspended him for failing to appear in camp in playing condition. However, that’s because with the way the CBA was written, if a player failed their initial physical, they could not be put on LTIR. Numminen filed a grievance, which was settled for undisclosed terms when Buffalo re-signed him the next year.
Bob.
i see you've got a better memory than mine!
Yes, not exactly the same, as you mention. It wasn’t a particularly contentious issue though, both parties interpreted the CBA differently so they decided they’d just let the lawyers figure it out.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
While I agree with the rule, I DO think there should be an exemption for players retiring due to safety concerns. A comparable situation is Lappy, I don’t think the Flyers should have had to eat Lappy’s cap if he’s staying off the ice because it’s in his best interest.
I think the club should have a “Medical Buyout” option where, after submission to the leauge with an independent medical analysis, the player agrees that they are retiring due to health concerns. This wouldn’t be for “I’m not as fast anymore” problems but “This could ruin my life if I keep going” issues. The team is then required to pay the remainder of the contract, as noted (Or some portion if they agree to longer-term medical costs being covered for the player), and then the cap is removed as of the start of the following season. Maybe even throw in a clause where the player is still considered “employed” by the organization and has to work for them in some capacity, working with rookies etc, once medically cleared to do that.
I just think in an area where you’re risking life or permanent disability, there should be some sort of option to allow the player to gracefully step away.
Then what is to stop teams from giving away front-loaded 5-year contracts to 37 year old players, then turning around and saying he has to retire in year 2 because he had back surgery?
Or what if Pronger had a minor concussion at age 39, and he could have come back for the playoffs, but the team doesn’t want a $4.9 million cap hit for two years?
This opens up more loopholes rather than closing one.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 17, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
thats why he said all injuries would be look at by independent nhl approved doctors, they would have to say if its life threatening/career ending
How do you define “safety concerns” from an injury that “could ruin my life”?
If you define it as “life threatening/career ending”, Pronger doesn’t even qualify right now. If you define it as VorAbaddon did above, Pronger could have qualified due to his back surgery last summer.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 17, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
well with the reports of a month long constant stumbling nausea forgetting everything black outs are true…id say thats life ruining
So at what point do the stumbling nausea black outs fit the definition of “life ruining”? After two weeks? One month? Two months? Six months?
And when that stops, how long until it’s not “life ruining”? Because Laperriere’s life isn’t ruined, and he’s still under contract.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 18, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
just ask priemeu who went through the exact same thing…my dad drinks with him on occasion and he says not a day goes by without a daily migrain, nausea ,light sensitivity, and dizzy spells. id say thats pretty life dampening…im not saying your comment is stupid at all because your right this if not correctly checked people could get out of bad contracts for a broken toe…but if a doc says, listen if he takes another hit he’ll be a potatoe then the team should be able to get out of the contract and have less stress o both sides
You’ve now gone from “life threatening/career ending” to “life ruining” to “life dampening”.
If you can’t even keep the same definition from comment to comment, how do you make a rule based on the symptoms of a concussion?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 18, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
well i would expect the millions of dollars helps keep it from being ruined. its were talking quality of life here, every1 knows nausea wont actually kill you…i had no idea i needed to clear up i wasnt actually talking about it ending a life….the nitpicking def needs to stop. i mean i understand your a professional writer and you dont make the silly mistakes i do when i write but all those pretty much mean the same thing, its a huge hinderance on life is whjat i mean and if a doc says listen you cant play any more then the contract should be void
When you’re talking about a rule change and what the NHL should do, you have to be able to formulate a rule that applies to all situations. If you consider me showing how difficult it would be to formulate a rule that actually improves the current one nitpicking, you aren’t able to formulate that rule.
Further, why would the players agree to voiding their million dollar contracts because they aren’t able to play? The contracts are guaranteed and if you tell the NHLPA “if a doctor says you can’t play anymore, you are going to lose the $19.7 million the team owes you,” why would the player say “okay, thanks for looking out for me. I’ll go make $150,000 per year as a scout.”
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 18, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
oh no the players would still have to be bought out it just wouldnt count against the cap for an over 35er or any1 for that matter in a situation like that
So in your scenario, players can retire so long as a doctor says they have a “life dampening” injury, they get their money, and the team has no cap consequences.
Then why even have a 35+ designation at all?
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 18, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
but back to your lappy statement, you would agree his career is over not due to his choice but due to docs saying another hit could cripple him and the blood bubble he had on his brain(what i heard)…since its not like he chose to retire and his age had nothing to do with the slapshot that cuased such trauma, should the flyers be forced to be held back by the contract every offseason till it expires?
The Flyers signed Laperriere to a three year contract knowing:
a) the contract was guaranteed;
b) if he was no longer effective, they would only get $100,000 in cap relief by sending him down;
c) If he was forced to retire, they had to charge his cap hit against the cap for the duration of the contract.
Why does the team suddenly get a pass for taking the risk of signing a 35+ player to a multi-year deal because he had to retire?
Mike Rathje didn’t choose to retire and his age had nothing to do with his injuries. Further, his injuries weren’t “life threatening” or “life ruining”, so should the Flyers have been able to escape his $10.5 million owed over the remaining three years of his contract because his injuries were “life dampening” and a doctor said “listen, you can’t play any more”?
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 18, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
again i wasnt clear my fault..i meant the player would still be able to be bought out it just wouldnt count against the cap..in rathjes case i dont really remember what was wrong with him…was it his knees?
My entire comment above has nothing to do with the players still getting their money. The Flyers took a risk signing Laperriere and Rathje and Pronger to long-term deals when they were over 35 years old knowing full well what would happen if those players got injured.
Why do you want to propose a rule that eliminates that risk and provides teams with incentives to front-load contracts, sign deals both parties know will not be honored, and then “buy out” players after they become ineffective due to an injury?
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 18, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
how would a disaster clause make front loaded contracts? like i said its nhl approved docs making a diagnosis that the play CAN NOT play any more….say the player has a annurism and cant play any more, its not because hes old its just bad luck(i would think not a med student). or say something like a car accident paralyzes them? should they still have that cap hit for something that was absolutely uncontrollable?
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
I think Pronger has 50+ million reason why he shouldn’t retire. Pronger retiring is a lose lose situation he doesn’t get paid and no LTIR relief. I think he is pull a Rathje and LTIR or be bought out on Amensty when the CBA is renewed.
Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011
If by 50 mil you mean the remainder of his contract, then it’s closer to 29 mil.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
However if he say, wants to become a GM (he’d make an awesome GM), he’d have to retire.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
2 BIG questions that everyone is wondering...
What are the salary cap scenarios is Pronger:
1. Goes to LTIR long term (New CBA might screw that up?)
2. Pronger retires following the season.
AND
Is it realistic at all to think we might be able to get Shea Weber. Ryan Suter is nice and all but Shea Weber is the crown jewel, and if you’re going to try to replace someone as big, gritty, and with leadership qualities, Suter doesn’t compare to Weber. Also, i’m fairly certain Shea has murdered at least 4 or 5 people in his life with his slapshot and has the burliest playoff beard ever.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2psiu8g.gif
Weber’s an RFA – you’ll have to trade pieces to get him
Suter’s a UFA – you trade nothing
I like Weber and he’d be a great Flyer…but I’d rather take Suter and keep my Schenn
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 16, 2011 6:34 AM EST up reply actions
That’s if you can wait for the offseason before getting either of them. Personally I would rather we accept this as a fun rebuilding year and wait till the offseason. And it makes zero sense to make a rash trade in the midst of a 7 game winning streak anyway.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 16, 2011 6:36 AM EST up reply actions
Very true, but I think trading a seemingly injury prone young prospect for a proven defenseman who’s probably in the top 5 or 6 in the league at his position and proven olympian still sounds like a good idea to me. If we signed Weber long-term, that would be a HUGE solid addition for years.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2psiu8g.gif
Would you though?
Weber is on another level from Suter, he’s a real game-changer like Pronger. Big hits, hard shot, solid defenseman.
Schenn is promising but the question you have to ask yourself is… Do I feel lucky? Well do ya, PursuitOfLappyness?
Back to reality (i’m delirious from studying for finals all night and basically high on coffee) Do we think that a 26 year old Weber signing here long term brings us a better chance of winning a cup than a still unproven possible star like Schenn. It’s a gamble, but I think I’d take Weber over Schenn. Of course all that could change with Briere getting older and Giroux…
http://i55.tinypic.com/2psiu8g.gif
It wouldn’t just be Schenn though. I said Schenn because I’d say Nashville starts their talks by bringing up either Schenn or Couturier. Schenn for Weber would be fine, simply because you’d swap almost anyone for Weber straight up coz he’s that good, but Nashville will definitely ask for other pieces. And on top of that Weber would have a large cap hit. It could hurt our depth a lot.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 16, 2011 6:48 AM EST up reply actions
Pronger at age 34, with one year left on his deal, cost Lupul, Sbisa, and two first round picks.
Weber is 26, with a half a year left on his deal and RFA rights for another year. So figure a package that’s at least similar to the Pronger deal.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
No way. That is way too much. I can see them trading schenn and a 1st and probably another player but not JVR too. The way I see it right now, most of this team is so young that 1st round picks do not matter to this team as much right now. They need established players that can contribute now and not some rookie that will spend a couple years in the ahl. If I were the flyers I would try to trade more draft picks right now instead of players.
"Good game. Let's go eat."
If I were the flyers I would try to trade more draft picks right now instead of players.
The salary cap disagrees.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
The Flyers management don’t believe in the salary cap so it clearly can’t effect them.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
Nice, U.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Well id see them taking the schenn jvr and a 1st that’s why I said it…and let’s be honest I know he’s on pace for 60 points but he was givin a contract based on that boston series and I’ve only seen him play 1 game so far this season like that. Is there a good d man in the upcoming draft we can trade up for?
by reaper1221 on Dec 16, 2011 2:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Schenn, Couturier AND draft picks would get the Preds to take your call.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Considering the Preds are guaranteed to have him for at least 1 more year at anything less than 4 first round picks, assuming they qualify him (at 7.5 million!), yes, that would be a reasonable starting point.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
RIght, note that U and I did not say “get the deal done”, it’s the starting point.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
No, I would argue MORE than the Pronger deal (again, see Shea Weber fanpost thread). And actually, now that Pronger is known to be done for the season, the Flyers leverage has lessened further. This is especially true for any in-season trade. In this case, PursuitofLappyness are in agreement….go with what you have.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Weber is on another level from Suter, he’s a real game-changer like Pronger.
Only offensively. Many observers (including, apparently, Predator management) believe that the reason Weber looks so good is that he is paired with Suter. Thus, there is something what we would term of a Pronger-Carle effect, according to these observers.
Now, in terms of his shot from the point per se? Yes, it is awesome.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
First thing, this has to mean a new contract for Matt Carle. I know he’s a different animal to Pronger but there is now no way we can afford to let one of our top guys walk. With Timonen also drifting towards the end of his career, we’ve only got 2 (Coburn and Meszaros) established guys locked up for the long term. I dont want a dramatic rebuild. Rebuilds are horrible.
Secondly, yes, Obviously, just go get Shea. This guy is a superstar, and he plays in a position we are now short. Superstars just simply don’t become available every day. Or every year. We got Pronger when he was …what, 34? And he made a big difference, but for too short a time. Now, to be able to get a player of that quality, but I believe only 26? There’s not much I wouldn’t pay. He could headline our blueline for a decade, and be in the running for the Norris every year.
We’ve got 3 defensive prospects who have been given a shot this year, and all of them have held up. Stacks of draft picks saved up from the Richards and Versteeg deals. I’m sure we can make something work, even if it costs us Jakub Voracek or Jody Shelley. I want a deal to happen.
Posting all the way from sunny Manchester, England.
Stacks of draft picks saved up from the Richards and Versteeg deals.
What?!
And Weber is gonna cost us something more valuable than Voracek or Shelley. You’re kidding yourself if you think we get him that cheap.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I think Bud in TN might agree with me here – Suter’s a MUCH better acquisition than Weber. Suter will probably get under what Weber’s asking for >$7.5M. Suter’s seen as the glue of that Nashville defense and you’ll notice his absence more than Weber’s. Weber’s play dropped off last year when Suter was out of the lineup and magically reappeared when Suter returned. Plus, Suter’s cap hit is manageable this year – Weber’s is not.
With all of that said, the Preds know this, too, and would sooner mover Weber than Suter.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Weber’s getting 7.5 million this year on a 1 year deal. I’m sure Holmgren will immediately be thinking 14 years if he’s looking to sign Weber.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 16, 2011 7:09 AM EST up reply actions
That is, whoever we sign, we can expect the usual front-loaded contract to an in-his-prime star thing
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 16, 2011 7:10 AM EST up reply actions
I agree we are the highest scoring team in the league and I don’t think we need to add a defensmen with a high offensive upside. I would prefer to get a rock solid D who can move the puck and take on top line competition without giving up the extra pieces to acquire an offensive threat.
Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011
What the Flyers need to do.....
….. Nothing.
They are winning games. The rookies are playing great, I see no reason to make a panic trade move and unload a player (Bob) that they will need in the long term/playoffs.
We have solid goal-tending, the D is really stepping up in the absence of Capt. Elbows, the offense is still scoring with G out of the line-up. I see nothing wrong with playing with the team that is currently on the ice.
Don’t go out and blow all that Cap space right away, save it for close to the trade deadline, that way if you need it because of more injuries or a terrible slump, use it then.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
I agree, I just hope it does not sacrifice the great Russian goal-tending duo or the league leading offense.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Dec 16, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
Like I said before, its stupid to let somebody go for free if you can get a good deal for them. Col set a very high market for young goaltenders this year, it would be really dumb if the Flyers decided to keep Bobs for two years and let him walk for nothing.
"I'm terrible" - Ilya Bryzgalov
It’s also dumb to trade a solid back-up/Number 1 goalie and take the risk of Bryz going down with injury and having no back-up goalie to call up.
Especially since the one goalie in the current pipeline with the play-off experience and NHL experience has to clear re-entry waivers to get back onto the team.
The team is fine as it’s sits now, so the Flyers need to let things play out for a month or two and see how it goes. To do a panic trade now is just plain dumb.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Dec 16, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Don’t be so sure on that. It’s a chance that should not be risked.
This team is fine as it sits now, Homer and Snider need to leave well enough alone.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Dec 16, 2011 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
Well, we can be pretty sure that Bob won’t be traded for Weber, anyway. The last thing the Preds need is a goalie. They do need an offensive piece or three, though. Who knows.
I <3 our rookies.
by LeepinLizardz on Dec 16, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
The Flyers would be stupid to trade away there offensive depth away 2 years in a row.
by Anders Jensen on Dec 16, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
My wife says if they trade Bob she’s going to cut Homer (I told her to stop chopping vegetables for dinner and put the knife down of course.) She says they need to keep it as is because she really likes the chemistry of the team.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
"Some might give head coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney plenty of credit for guiding the Coyotes to two straight playoff berths amid franchise foibles – and they deserve much of it – but Bryzgalov was far and away the team’s most valuable player." - NBC Sports
by Flyers_Section_121 on Dec 16, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Well it is all about the chemistry!™
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Did you notice Laviolette’s 24/7 line about how anyone who plays with Giroux has chemistry?
I don’t think anyone used the word grit during the show.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Dec 16, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, I just hope it does not sacrifice the great Russian goal-tending duo or the league leading offense.
Bob may be traded, but $49M plus Anders Lindback says it won’t be to the Preds.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
THIS!
All this knee-jerk-trade-everyone-this-is-an-emergency shit is starting to get on my nerves.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Jagr: Old.
Harnell: Falls.
Briere: Too expensive, missing in action.
Giroux: Injury Prone.
JVR: Bust.
Schenn: Injury Prone/Bust.
Timonen: Too Expensive.
Pronger: Injured Forever.
Coburn: Too Expensive.
Carle: Sux without Pronger.
Bob: Trade him while he has value!
Trade them all for picks or Stamkos, Doughty, Weber, Sedin Twins, Datsyuk, and Bobby Ryan.
Vorachek Read Simmonds Rinaldo Talbot Zolnierczyk Meszaros and Bourdon fill out roster.
/too long for sarcasm font
by hebrew hammer on Dec 16, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It’s an autonomic response on the part of the membership body. Fear of abandonment, fear of being marauded by enemies from three directions. Adrenals overfiring.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Dec 16, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe there’s something wrong with me then. When I saw the announcement I thought “oh fuck, that’s not good”, but I didn’t spend any time thinking about who to get to replace him or who to trade away to do it. I’m too subdued. Lions will probably eat me or something.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
it’s the penguins and bruins and panthers and other animals you need to worry about. rangers, whatever they are.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Dec 16, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t even add a defensive replacement. Right now the top 8 d-men are Kimmo, Coburn, Mez, Carle, Bourdon, Marshall, Gus and Lilja, which is a pretty solid defensive core. Were there any guys who went over to the KHL this year, forward wise?
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 16, 2011 8:36 AM EST reply actions
Were there any guys who went over to the KHL this year, forward wise?
Flyers Wars episode 4: The return of the Zherdev
"I'm terrible" - Ilya Bryzgalov
Voracheck: I have your number!
Zherdev: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It’s not true! That’s not possible!
"If it keeps Mike Milbury off TV, then bring on the 1-3-1," Bob McKenzie
by Mike B on D on Dec 16, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
I am inclined to agree with you, I think the top 4 are fine, and the last two, they are what they are. 5th and 6th defensemen. Bourdon and Marshall have both played well and i am assuming Marshall will probably be sent down once Gus is ready. To me that is a sufficient defensive group. If they can get a really good defensemen without having to break the bank then go for it, but that’s fairly unlikely.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Thanks for including that last link.
I <3 our rookies.
by LeepinLizardz on Dec 16, 2011 8:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Who are the best UFA D men out there?
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
#FireRoseman
@boknows71
TSN analysts said last night that Bryan Allen and Tim Gleason from Carolina, and Weber and Suter from Nashville could be likely possibilities for Flyers, only 2 i’d be interested in are Suter or Weber. Wonder what this means for Carle? You’d think with Kimmo getting old they’d wanna hang onto him
http://i55.tinypic.com/2psiu8g.gif
Abbriviated list of targets
RYAN SUTER
Tim Gleason
Bryan Allen
Josh Gorges
Matt Carle (uh-oh.)
Dennis Wideman
Defensemen that are even more either terrible than Dennis Wideman or older than Pronger (most are both)
Shea Weber costs 4 first rounders, so clearly you’ll be getting him.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
Yea that was the biggest problem with looking over the UFA list. Most quality D-Men are signed up for long term deals which are ending when they are in their 30s. Knowing Homer, that’s exactly his type, but if a replacement for Pronger is what the Flyers want, then I think they have to trade for one or pay a lot to a UFA. As a cap strapped team, neither option seems too enticing.
by hebrew hammer on Dec 16, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Why do we need to trade for anybody? We got 4 quality defensmen and 3 promesing rookies there are playing very good right now and next year we will also have Bart
by Anders Jensen on Dec 16, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
I’m in favor of the Flyers staying put and not making any rash deals. Just saying that the likelier of the two options would be a trade because they don’t have the money cap space to go sign a big UFA.
by hebrew hammer on Dec 16, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
If we were to trade for a big time defenseman, we would have to do a Pronge like trade and I dont think that is nessesary
by Anders Jensen on Dec 16, 2011 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, I agree completely. I’m ok with our D staying the way it is, I think. Obviously it’s better with Pronger, but there are too many negative effects to trying to replace him.
by hebrew hammer on Dec 16, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, lets just hope Snider/Homer sees it that way too
by Anders Jensen on Dec 16, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Or at least that the rest of the league sets their prices way too high.
by hebrew hammer on Dec 16, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
If you guys could check this out and tell me what you think...
I’d appreciate it.
http://www.hockeytracker.net/2011/12/concussion-epidemic-strikes-flyers-and.html
OMB!
Flyers writer at hockeytracker.net
Follow me @HTJohnMoritz (BSH is doing it, why aren't you)
Rothenboost?
Hey Ben! Would it be creepy for you to roll by Pronger’s house and ask him something? Just what he likes for breakfast or something?
Hey, Ben. It appears we’re back to LLLL (Lone Latvian Left in the League) for Kaspars Daugavins, as Arturs Kulda has been reassigned back to St. John.
"That was a lot of fun. We don't go to jail, we beat up their chicken forwards, we score ten goals, and we win. And now the Moose drinks beer." -Andre "Moose" Dupont
Aww. And I only got to see him play twice.
Daugavins is not a bad guy to have flying the flag, though. Think he’s gonna be a really solid player someday.
SB Nation Tennis -- Fuzzy yellow balls.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Dec 16, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
This could probably be arranged.
SB Nation Tennis -- Fuzzy yellow balls.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Dec 16, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
If he does this to holmgren will this make him able to make a steal of a trade?
by reaper1221 on Dec 16, 2011 9:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Flyers better extend Matt Carle, like yesterday.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
yea with Pronger out like that, they need to extend Carle. It just means we will have a hard time keeping both Voracheck and Jagr
by Anders Jensen on Dec 16, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Jagr will play 1 more year tops, he’s not playing at 43 unless he stumbles onto the fountain of youth, and i’m pretty sure it’s not in Fairmount Park
http://i55.tinypic.com/2psiu8g.gif
Still Jagr have to take a pay cut next year if he wants to stay with the Flyers and we want to keep both Carle and Voracek, as both will most likely see a good pay raise.
by Anders Jensen on Dec 16, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on how the Bonus Cushion works next season. Based on current CBA, you could sign Jagr for the same as this season, give Jakub a $1M raise, and pay Carle the same as Coburn ($4.5M) and still have space, even if you don’t make the smart moves like waiving Shelley and Walker.
by hebrew hammer on Dec 16, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
The Flyers better extend Matt Carle, like yesterday.
Heh. I’ve been snooping around capgeek for awhile, and it gets real tricky here. Remember, the Flyers can’t “assume” the CBA will allow Pronger’s salary to come off the cap (and obviously, they aren’t going to assume right now he is fully retired or even Lappy-retired, either). Thus, there is not much room to put Carle there.
Almost certainly, unless the CBA issues a get-out-of-jail card, the Pronger injury means that one of the following will not be here next year: Jagr, Voracek, Carle. And maybe 2 of those.
One other thing people are not remembering is that currently buyouts do NOT remove the salary from the cap. Teams paid 2/3 of the salary, and got twice as much time to amortize the salary. In that case, $2.5 M would still be on the cap for TEN YEARS. Thus, even if Pronger were bought out (and I’m not sure this is possible with a 35-plus) maybe Jagr or Voracek or Carle are gone.
I think that NO MOVE MAKES SENSE right now, unless Homer is in total go-for-broke move this year (and most of us would say this is a bad idea with all of the first year players). Of these, the move that makes the most sense is Carle, and as TNBrando just posted, that would take two to tango.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
I think that NO MOVE MAKES SENSE right now
I agree. But when they do decide to do something, hopefully in the off season then it better be resigning Carle.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
If everything stays as-is, I agree. But there are a lot of hills to climb, including CBA language.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Posting this here as well, for better visibility
I just realized…since I’m gonna be up there tomorrow, and there’s a Flyers game there tomorrow, I should probably try to get myself to the game. Anybody else planning on going?
SB Nation Tennis -- Fuzzy yellow balls.
Broad Street Hockey.
GREAT NEWS!
No one has noticed The Danny Syvret Offensive Dynamo is a free agent after this season! Our prayers for an elite d man have been answered!
by reaper1221 on Dec 16, 2011 9:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Anorther Reason Not To Make A Panic Trade
At the risk of being a terribly wet blanket….another reason NOT to make a panic trade, in the wake of the Pronger news, is that we still don’t know the prognosis on G. If he, god forbid, misses extended time, adding offense (with the cap space available by LTIRing Elbows) may become more of a priority.
The offense without G have so far produced 8 goals through 2 games and that is with Hartnell and Jagr getting to know Couturier
by Anders Jensen on Dec 16, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
That’s certainly very encouraging, but hardly a signficant sample size. And do we really have confidence that Jagr will stay healthy the rest of the season? That Hartnell will continue to produce at his recent level sans Giroux? Is Simmonds over his funk or will he be streaky all season?
Just sayin’, might be better to wait and see how thing shake out between no and the trade deadline.
by Michael Toole on Dec 16, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
I think Jagr will stay relative healthy and Hartnell will fall down abit, but guys like Voracek have been stellar the last 2 games. Simmonds seems to be finding his groove right now.
by Anders Jensen on Dec 16, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Briere is on his way to a 70 pts if he played 82 games and JVR is on his way to 59 pts. Thats pretty good.
by Anders Jensen on Dec 16, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
van Rimesdyk gets $875,000 this year. That’s worth 59 points. Last year, Ilya Kovalchuk had 60 points, and he’s even less well-rounded as a player than JvR. Yes, yes, different teams, different teammates, et cetera, but 59 points from an $875k cap hit is really good. If you don’t count the bonuses (since they may or may not earn those), JvR’s base salary this year is less than Couturier’s.
Now, next year, he’ll hopefully keep improving so he earns that pay raise, but that’s next year.
Bob.
The guys that were around 70 points last year:
Sharp ($3.9 cap hit currently, goes up to $5.9 next year)
Ryan ($5.1)
Ribeiro ($5.0)
Thornton ($7.0)
Tanguay ($3.5)
Visnovsky ($5.6)
Briere ($6.29)
Yes, Briere makes more than most of them, but not obscenely so, especially since he was signed at a time when it looked like the cap might continue to increase drastically each year, while most of the others signed later, after the cap growth had begun to slow.
As for 60 points, you’re looking at guys like:
Krejci ($3.75)
Lucic ($4.08)
Lidstrom ($6.2)
Elias ($6.0)
Kovalchuk ($6.67)
Doan ($4.35)
Datsyuk ($6.7)
Grabovski ($2.9)
van Riemsdyk’s $4.25 is probably a slight overpay, but not horribly so (on the flip side, Grabovski is a ridiculously good bargain). He makes a bit more than Krejci and Lucic, who are the closest age comparables, but much less than most of the older players with similar point totals. I’m more concerned that the deal goes through his entire RFA phase than with the money – I would have preferred to have the next contract negotiations be in his last RFA year rather than his second UFA year.
Bob.
Theory
Listening to NHL home ice this morning one of the broadcasters talked about the Flyers stating Pronger would be out for the year to keep the media at bay. They referenced Crosby being asked the same questions every day….How do you feel? Did you sleep well? What’s the timetable for return? Etc… The theory was keep the media out of Pronger’s face until, hopefully, he is ready to return this year. I guess the indicator would be whether or not they rush to replace him. The Flyers FO doesn’t work very well, and can’t sleep at night, knowing there is cap space to be spent.
by The Karl Hungus on Dec 16, 2011 10:05 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Any chance Winnipeg wants to move Bogosian I would love to repeat the Coburn deal I think Bogosian has tons of upside.
Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011
If this were the past offseason, the answer would be yes. They hated him there up to then. But he’s playing better this year and young defensemen like him are at a premium. I like your thinking though. Bogosian’s good, cheap, young, tough and nowhere near his full potential.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Things you'd rather not hear, from PfaCNF.
Slightly more detailed than the other 1402 Pronger articles
Particularly:
Chris Pronger is, simply put, a mess right now. For most of the past month he’s been stumbling around, regularly forgetting very simple things and constantly feeling severe nausea.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
“Billy Bob, the man’s holding up fingers. True or false?”
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 16, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I’m less worried about his playing career now than his quality-of-life right now. I hope this isn’t permanent.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
This. FYI, something I haven’t posted is how, while I hate how the Flyers have handled the media discussions, they might get a pass from me in terms of initially mis-diagnosing the illness. Pronger passed a baseline test. And then, in November, there was a really nasty virus going around here at least, and, yes, for a week or so, I had some of the symptoms mentioned above. But at some point, with Pronger, you had to know “hmmm, maybe not a virus, let’s doublecheck.”
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
You hit the nail on the head. Pronger is, outside of hockey anyway, still a young man with a lot of years left to him. The big question now is whether he’ll be able to navigate those years in any sort of reasonable comfort. Here’s hoping he can.
On the diagnosis, reading between the lines, I’d guess he felt groggy after the stick to the face and took a baseline test then. Which, upon passing, was put down to needing to get in game shape.
Then the other two incidents, which came in the middle of a virus going around and a knee ailment which I presume involved pain meds…well, you can see how the waters could get pretty muddied up.
I specifically don’t see this as a similar situation to Crosby, who looked dazed and confused after the Steckel hit but went back out to get run by Hedman. Not nearly as clear a set of circumstances to diagnose.
Anyway, I feel for Pronger and hope it works out for him.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Anyone hear talk about the two line pass coming back? I wonder how people would take it if they put it back in the game. Can you say the two line pass would help prevent concussions? I’m not sure what to think about that.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
"Some might give head coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney plenty of credit for guiding the Coyotes to two straight playoff berths amid franchise foibles – and they deserve much of it – but Bryzgalov was far and away the team’s most valuable player." - NBC Sports
by Flyers_Section_121 on Dec 16, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions
That seems like a correlation/causation issue to me. I can’t say definitively where concussions occur but ancedotal evidence suggests its not center ice.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
It does seem like the majority of the concussions suffered would not have been prevented with the two line pass in effect but I can see it from a “slow the game down” approach to the concussion issue. I wouldn’t expect a lot of people to support it without sufficient evidence that it would help (like you mentioned U.)
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
"Some might give head coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney plenty of credit for guiding the Coyotes to two straight playoff berths amid franchise foibles – and they deserve much of it – but Bryzgalov was far and away the team’s most valuable player." - NBC Sports
by Flyers_Section_121 on Dec 16, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I can say conclusively (well as conclusively as you can get with only observational evidence): No touch icing would prevent way more concussions than the two-line pass.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
and I think that play should be at your own risk.
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 16, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Listen to DSOD talk about BSH on Peoria Radio
by Ben Rothenberg on Dec 16, 2011 11:40 AM EST reply actions
this, is dedication my friend
I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.
Stay educated, my friends
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 16, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Ben, Thank you for the MTL/Hicky/Fluery link.
My initial response was, "I hate you so much right now" but I changed it.
by DLJr on Oct 19, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
by 02h32m01s on Dec 16, 2011 11:49 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, where is Blair Betts?
He’s not listed on the Flyers injury report, and doesn’t appear to be in Adirondack.
Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren
Officially, LTIR. It’s a bit strange that he’s not on the injury report. But I vaguely recall that at some point, the Flyers stopped talking about Rathje, as well, and I don’t think Lappy is regularly discussed, either.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
What’s he on LTIR with? Is it his shoulder? Because that seemed fine last year…
Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren
by philiafan14364 on Dec 16, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
That’s kinda what I’m thinking.
He’s the new Zherdev.
Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren
by philiafan14364 on Dec 16, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Tell me something I don’t know?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Do you know that the douche has been charged with assault and battery on a 12 year old pee wee hockey player?
by Prometheus74 on Dec 16, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently he hit the kid with his shoe.
/couldnothelpmyself
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Dec 16, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
So the Devils have 16 wins. 7 of which came via the Shootout.
They are 7-1 overall in the Shootout.
Last year the most wins via Shootout was 10, in 12 attempts by the Kings and 13 attempts by the Pens.
I know this has nothing to do with anything but this is rather amazing to me.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Can someone please explain to me how one doctor can see the physical damage Pronger took, and conclude he needs to sit out the rest of the year, and another doctor can watch a boxer get repeatedly smashed in the head, and conclude they can go another couple of rounds?
This isn’t rhetorical, I honestly can’t understand all of this concussion craze in football and hockey. How are boxers, and MMA fighters able to take many, many times the abuse to the head, and be allowed to continue in their sport?
I'm kind of a dick.
There’s a big difference between getting punched in the head when you are expecting it and getting knocked in the head unexpectedly while moving at a high rate of speed.
You could easily ask why Jody Shelley and Derek Boogaard can continue to go out and get punched in the face but Crosby and Giroux can’t play. It’s a different injury.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
There’s a big difference between getting punched in the head when you are expecting it and getting knocked in the head unexpectedly
Why? Isn’t it the movement of your brain that cause the concussion? And I’d hardly say the guys that are getting knocked out in the ring are actually expecting that punch at that moment, otherwise they’d get out of the way.
I just have a hard time buying into all of this. I’m obviously no doctor, but I simply think way too much is being made of it. There is no way things have changed that much in the last 5 years or so that this explosion of guys losing full seasons makes sense.
I'm kind of a dick.
Skinnyfish (a med student) mentioned on PPP: Your face is a natural shock absorber for the brain.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
Just your face, or your entire head? And are you implying that it’s hits to the other parts of the body that are causing the damage to the brain?
I'm kind of a dick.
I imagine a punch to the jaw is significantly less damaging than a blow to the temple or the back of the head.
by hebrew hammer on Dec 16, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
100% wrong as the majority of concussion come from the jaw bone smashing into the skull.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
by Val_d'Or on Dec 16, 2011 7:28 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
the shock absorbing properties were mentioned in respect to why boxers and mma fighters don’t get concussions as much. When you hit a wall, it doesn’t help as much.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"I know its a viable strategy and all, but i’d prefer the Flyers not try to take off Miller’s head with every shot."
Your brain is also moving within your body, so the impact is going to have a different effect if you are standing still as opposed to if you are moving at 10 or 15 or 25 mph.
Try it. Have somebody hit you with a brick while you’re standing still. Then, when you’ve recovered, get on your bike and pedal to about 20 mph and have someone throw a brick at your face head-on. Don’t duck or you’ll ruin the game.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Dec 16, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
now we’re getting to the science of it….
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Dec 16, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
Many, many boxers – to be followed shortly by their MMA counterparts, I have zero doubt – have traumatic brain injury.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
They have a damned neurodegenerative brain disease named after them, for crying out loud.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Lilja loaned to ADK; wonder if the loan is temporary or permanent? Of course, Walker may be getting nervous, too.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
OT
I said said temperpedic foam yesterday for absorbing impact..I meant sobakawa air beads..youtube the test its kind of interesting if it can make a blow be absorbed by the beads and not transfer motion to the head and neck
by reaper1221 on Dec 16, 2011 5:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Won’t help completely but I think one thing that’s doable is to make the pads that cause the injuries (elbow pads) softer.
You can’t weaken captain elbows main weopon?!
by reaper1221 on Dec 16, 2011 7:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Here's my (a Preds fan) response from the fanpost about Weber:
Now, we all want to trade our scrubs for an awesome player. It’s not going to happen.
It would take probably something like:
Giroux + JVR
or
Giroux or JVR + Timonen
or
Timonen and 2 First rounders.
etc.
Nothing you probably want to give up. I know I wouldn’t. Suter would be easier to get I think, and would come cheaper since he’s going to be UFA.
Haha! And everyone got jumpy because I said Couturier and Schenn and draft picks to start the conversation!! Haha!
/There is zero possibility any of those people mentioned would be going for ANYONE. Not even Crosby, if he were healthy (well, maybe Timonen and picks for Sid).
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
I love Weber
but I just dont see it happening. Ever. However there has to be some mid level talents out there to really look hard at.
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