Young James notches Gordie Howe hat trick as Flyers win, build hatred vs. Lightning
by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2011 12:10 AM EST
in Philadelphia Flyers Game Recaps - 10-11
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Man, did some old feelings creep back up tonight or what? I don't think I've hated the Tampa Bay Lightning as much as I do right now since 2004, when the Flyers should've won that Eastern Conference Finals series against the Bolts (and the Stanley Cup). And that's fantastic.
Randy Jones sucks. Steve Downie sucks. Steven Stamkos sucks. Hell, Simon Gagne sucks. The Tampa Bay Lightning are a hated rival again, and tonight's game was living proof of that. It was one of those knock-down, drag-out battles from start to finish. A war of attrition at times, a war of engagement at others.
Whether it was Chris Pronger holding the puck in the defensive end to force the Lightning out of that horrible, blasphemous 1-3-1 trap or James van Riemsdyk fighting (!) Jones in defense of Claude Giroux after a nasty, dangerous knee-on-knee hit in the first period, this game had a bit of it all. I mean, it even had a Darroll Powe penalty shot goal. Yeah, seriously.
It wasn't all great, as the Flyers blew a two-goal lead in the second period, ultimately leading to over time. But after falling behind in the shootout, a clutch goal from Mike Richards and a winner from Kimmo Timonen, the Finnish God, were enough to seal the deal. Brian Boucher was brilliant in the shootout and minus maybe the Bolts first goal, was brilliant throughout the entire game.
The Flyers beat the Lightning for the first time this season, and damn, it was exciting. Five points up in the Conference. Feels good. Some bullet points, the comment of the night and our questions answered after the jump.
- Kris Versteeg played mostly with Mike Richards and Andreas Nodl in his Flyers' debut, although he played a bit with James van Riemsdyk and Richards as well. He played 17:44 in the game and while he didn't get on the score sheet, I thought he looked good. He's fast, he back checks well and he showed a bit of a physical edge in the corners. I'm excited to see more of him.
- Speaking of Versteeg, he was wide. open. in the third period at center ice. Braydon Coburn tried to lead him with a stretch pass but Randy Jones, of all people, broke it up with a beautiful (lucky) diving interception.
- We touched on this in the words up there at the start, but van Riemsdyk was a boss tonight. He had a Gordie Howe hat trick and seemed to dominate every time he hit the ice. His last shift in the third period might have been his best, a sign that he can keep that pace up through an entire game. Then again, we knew this. Sorry, Brian Burke.
- Peter Laviolette's game plan against the 1-3-1 was, in my eyes, a thing of beauty. He clearly watched some game tape from the Capitals game in Tampa about a week and a half ago, since Bruce Boudreau employed something similar in that game to counter Guy Boucher's BS. The Flyers also did a good job getting creative with movement on the wings as a way to combat the trap.
- When Tampa gets going in the offensive end, it's scary. They're somehow able to collpase the defense in so low that it just turns into a free-for-all in the slot and the crease. It can be heart attack-inducing.
- Steven Stamkos was held off the score sheet tonight and Dwayne Roloson didn't look nearly as invincible as he did in the last meeting between the teams. These are good things.
- A lot of credit has to go to Laviolette for his game plan tonight. The Flyers were able to figure out the frustrating Lightning as a result of the changes Lavi made.
Questions with Answers
- For the love of God, can the Flyers stop that Tampa top line? For the most part, yeah. St. Louis and Lecavalier teamed up for a goal on the power play, but at even strength, good stuff.
- Scoring on Dwayne Roloson is a good start, too. Can that happen? Go to hell, Dwayne.
- Kris Versteeg makes his Flyers debut. How's that go? Very good, as mentioned above in the bullets.
- This is a big game for the Flyers tonight. Do they play like that? They certainly looked like it. Blowing that two-goal lead could've been demoralizing, but they didn't let it get to them. I thought they turned the page pretty well and really seemed determined. /cliche'd
Comment of the Night
To: Randy Jones
From: James vanRiemsdyk
Subject: Didja see that? Did you? Huh?Dear Randy,
Na na na na boo boo!
Love,
Riemers>> Chemistry66
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Man, I’m on a roll.
And a sugar high as well. Toooooooooo many cookies.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Girl Scout cookies makes me a foodie?
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Feb 16, 2011 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
lol….actually its your many references to food on here. doubt i have you mixed up with someone else, but its possible.
I default Fan Pittsburgh teams. Yea, I wrote it!
Eh, might have been me.
I do like food and cooking and stuff like that. When I’m home, that is, since I have no cooking access at school besides a microwave.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Feb 16, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
So I showed up and posted for nothing, thanks Goeff, never again.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Blame me? How??
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Phillies Spring Training?
I loved the home crowd at tonight’s hockey game. Why is Florida so weak with their sports teams? I mean, we all know why, but it is still funny. Nothing like a home game one thousand miles from home!! All Flyers jersey’s as far as the eye could see in the shots of the crowd during goals.
I was talking to locals in early March last year. The first generation of real Bolt fans are just now hitting the age where they can go to games on their own, and when they have kids, only then will they have multi generations of fans. Right now, all of the northeast retirees support other teams, and any family they took down with them likely support old hometown teams, too. Pretty soon they’ll at least have a fan base.
Yeah, pretty much. Remember, the Bolts got started in 1992. From my own experience living in Orlando when the Magic were created, you’ll get kids up to about middle school age to switch team allegiances if they’re from somewhere else. Adults and older kids usually won’t change. That means the Tampa fans are generally 30 or younger, which will mean young kids and little disposable income. In another five to ten years, I’d expect the apparent size of their fanbase to increase, as the fans get a little older and have more ability to spend on sports tickets.
Philadelphia’s also not a good base for comparison, because Philly fans travel in droves everywhere. The fastest sell-outs of Dolphins games are whenever the Eagles visit – quicker than their division rivals. Other than in Tampa itself, I think the Phillies had more fans than the Rays in Florida for their World Series. I literally don’t know anyone that has the Rays as their primary team they root for. A fair number of people who root for NL teams will root for the Rays in the AL, but I don’t know anyone that I could ask “who’s your favorite baseball team?” and have them answer with the Rays. The teams are all just too young at this point. And even the Magic have problems sometimes with being outnumbered by Lakers and Celtics fans in their own building, despite being a 22-year-old franchise.
Bob.
Dover’s like an hour and half, isn’t it? I’ve made it to Disney World from Tampa in that amount of time before
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 16, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
It sounded to me like he was responding to M….
Living in Orlando you could go to Disney every dayThat’s where I got confused…. Tampa to Disney is an hour and a half, but from Orlando it’s a little over half an hour
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 16, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
Ha! Wow, reading comprehension fail. Since we were talking about Bolts fans and living near Tampa, my brain was stuck there and saw Tampa→Disney = Philly→Dover, which is what you said, but not what M said. My bad. :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
It’s okay I was doubting myself too, sometimes my brain doesn’t compute things too well before my second cup of coffee, so I started going “Did I miss something?”
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 16, 2011 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on the part of Orlando. I’m closer to Oviedo or Christmas than to downtown Orlando, but all of Orange County that isn’t part of another city has an Orlando address. From where I live now to Disney is 40 miles, and that involves going through Orlando.
I’m also moving to Melbourne (FL) this weekend. After that, NYC will be closer to Philly than Disney will be to me.
Bob.
Man, oh, man—do I dislike TB. This just helped fuel that fire for me. Blood pressure was extremely elevated for this game. Thank you, Cline: Maker of cheap, tasty red zin.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Ever had Cellar No. 8 Zinfandel? It’s also pretty cheap and one of my favorites.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Richie gave Stamkos a couple of shots to the back and to the head, trying to stir the pot behind the play. Stamkos turned around and they both kind of dropped one glove and hugged each other. That was really it, but it ended up being scored as 4:00 for roughing for richie, and 2:00 for roughing for stamkos.
Flyers fan trapped in Arlington Virginia. Invading the Verizon Center twice a year, and road-tripping to Wells Fargo as many times as I can...
I knew I saw two gloves on the ice, but I thought RIchie may have knocked one of Stamkos’ off in their sweet embrace. I could be wrong though, and according to you, I am.
Flyers fan trapped in Arlington Virginia. Invading the Verizon Center twice a year, and road-tripping to Wells Fargo as many times as I can...
Richie was lucky Stamkos even got 2:00, not sure he should have.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I agree. It could have been a 4 minute power play for the Bolts. Luckily, it wasn’t.
Flyers fan trapped in Arlington Virginia. Invading the Verizon Center twice a year, and road-tripping to Wells Fargo as many times as I can...
If the ref hadn’t seen it behind the play, it very well could have been. Richie (and many players in the NHL) will take liberties when the ref isn’t looking. The play was moving up ice, and Richie and Stammy were behind the play against the boards tied up. Richie took a couple of shots at Stammy, and I am all for it. Anything you can do to get the best player on the team, top-5 guy in the NHL off his game, I say go for it. Unfortunately, it ended up with you guys on the PP, which scares the piss out of me. Stammy on the point? Holy shit.
Flyers fan trapped in Arlington Virginia. Invading the Verizon Center twice a year, and road-tripping to Wells Fargo as many times as I can...
I like Richards being aggressive but yea he has to go into that one knowing Stamkos isnt dropping the gloves and not get carried away. I actually thought mike was getting 4 all alone.
Just Call Me "M"!
So did I. I was actually bothered by the way he went after Stamkos. I didn’t see Stamkos do anything to Richie or anyone to draw Richie’s attention like that.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
And so should those things.
:P
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Feb 16, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Pot or kettle?
You admitted it, so you have the choice. Haha.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Feb 16, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
For realz.
We get that you like both teams, and you are more of a Lightning fan but don’t forget whose barn your in.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I thought this and did it anyway. Screw it.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Everybody does.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2011 7:44 AM EST up reply actions
Man, I hate Duke so much.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
My cousin went to Wake Forest back in the Tim Duncan days. That’s my only personal connection, but seriously, screw Duke.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Why hate Duke? I am not a huge NCAA fan but Duke hasn’t had a ton of superstars in recent years that have had a major impact in the NBA to win a round. Their success is a team game and good shooting, things that don’t translate well to the NBA. I would rather cheer for Duke of North Carolina.
But they’re Duke. They’re so smug. And obnoxious. And ugly! I don’t give a rat’s ass about the NBA (sorry), I only watch NCAA basketball, the ACC in particular. So I fucking hate Duke!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
This is perfect.
In my experience, the Cameron Crazies are the worst kind of fans: impossibly loud, front-running, and most importantly, NOT actual basketball fans. These are the worst fans in sports. You the know the type. The people who love sports just because it’s an excuse to get dressed up and yell, but don’t actually understand the game. The group at the bar that cheers EXTRA LOUD, just to show everyone how PASSIONATE they are. Phonies.
For Duke students, games are more like a social engagement. They camp out together, and dress up together, and read from the same cheer sheets, and generally just have an awesome time being CRAZY together. Except… None of it’s really centered on basketball. It’s about getting attention, heckling opponents, and most of all, making friends. Because let’s face it: Duke students are typically lacking in the friend department.
That last part’s a joke, but this part’s serious: People that like Duke are generally unlikable. Just… Not the people you want to hang out with, ever. It sounds like hyperbole—like suggesting all Yankees and Cowboys fans are evil—but it’s generally borne out by reality. And clearly, I’m not alone. According to CNBC’s Darren Rovell, 5% of those surveyed by Match.com refuse to date someone that cheers for the Blue Devils.
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/4/2/1398649/duke-final-four-2010-ncaa-tournament
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
And there is Dick Vitale, who is one of the most loathesome announcers in all sports, largely because he spends every moment of his life talking about how great Duke is.
Is Paul Holmgren really bad at managing the salary cap? Does Matt Stairs enjoy getting his ass hammered by guys?
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Make that three— I LOATHE Duke, all the way back to the Laettner days. What a douchebag.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
The problem with Lavy’s system was that we forgot to stick to it at times. When Tampa sent the first winger attacking in the second period, we started trying to exploit that, and ran right into the 3 guys that screwed us up last time. It was the reason the 3rd goal happened (or at least that’s how I remembered it; it’s possible it turned into a scoring chance only). There was a long stretch pass from our zone that was picked off around center ice and it went back at us quickly leading to a goal.
We did the same thing a few different times in the game, with a lot of the same results. We really don’t like playing a patient game. I think we got overly eager on a few occasions and it almost cost us more than one goal.
Liked the game plan, just think they should have done it more. The times they tried it it definitely worked, but they definitely could have used it more. They ran into trouble when they started trying to run and gun, and I think is one of the main reasons you didn’t notice the Redemption line a lot tonight, as I don’t recall them ever trying that particular “break out” while that line was on the ice.
When they went for the long passes it was almost always a turnover. Need to breakdown the tape and look at some more controlled passing options, cause when they had puck possession they were fine, once trying to make fancy passes and go punch for punch, the were getting hosed.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
greatest thing was when the flyers slowed things down and waited for the bolts to come to them in their defensive zone, their fans were booing the flyers for not moving. if they’re going to boo, tell their team to stop playing that crap trap. they have enough offensive weapons to where they don’t need to rely on running a trap.
JVR now has as many Gordie Howe hat tricks as Gordie Howe.
by mtitanic on Feb 16, 2011 3:36 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
It seems to me the JVR plays better when he is mad at something. The couple games he has been doing some pushing and shoving have been his best. I love the shit out of him getting right over to jones like that.
They took a page out of the caps play book with that standing in the defensive zone waiting it out. I swear that was exactly what the caps did to them a couple weeks ago and it worked. The caps were even more blatant about waiting for the lightning to break the zone. Green at one point played with the puck and stood there with his stick at his waist. Good win tonight.
Just Call Me "M"!
a few years from now we’ll look back at the early days of JVR and laugh about how down some people were on him… and breathe a sigh of relief that we didnt trade him.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Feb 16, 2011 7:28 AM EST reply actions
This game was very intense from puck drop fun to watch minus that ridiculous 1-3-1 trap. That system is even more passive than the Devils traps of days past. Lavy’s approach against it shows you why Zherdev doesn’t get on the ice. Could Z have followed the RedArmy circle back approach without trying to stick handle through all 5 Bolts, probably not.
Bouch is super clutch great effort in the shootout.
I thought Mez had a bad 1st 2 periods lots of trouble clearing the puck he played better in 3rd say 1.5/5.
The ice and boards are horrendous in that building nobody all that skill on the ice I never seen that many unforced stickhandling fumbles and bouncing pucks.
by chrislanci on Feb 16, 2011 7:45 AM EST via mobile reply actions
...
You guys are hilarious after you win. It’s funny how everybody agrees that good defense wins championships. Also how Lightning defense is average at the best. But when a team bases their game on a good defense, you call it a “crap trap”? Funny indeed. Well… if people get angry and frustrated with the way you play, it obviously works. Also, to those who like to bring up the Capitals game from few weeks ago. That was the game we came out smug, fancy and didn’t stick to our game. Just ask Boucher! :P
And since Gagne sucks so bad. He’s so horrible, blasphemous and just deserves to be concussed again… I guess I’m gonna go hide into on of the corners of our huge cap space and cry myself to sleep.
Kat, where did someone say that Gags deserves to be concussed again? For that matter, halx was trying to say, if I’m getting this right, that saying Gagne sucks is blasphemous and horrible. That’s how I read it anyway.
Also,
I’m gonna go hide into on of the corners of our huge cap space and cry myself to sleep.
BOOOM! Well played.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Feb 16, 2011 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
I’m gonna go hide into on of the corners of our huge cap space and cry myself to sleep.
Aww no she didn’t.
Well done.
As for the trap…it’s the worst thing ever. It slows down the game, it almost ruins the game, but if it works it works. I don’t have a problem with it. I would rather a team play a more aggressive style of defense but if the trap was Tampa’s strategy to win then so be it.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
You see… you have to play what fits your team the best, what works for your players the best. We might be strong up on front but our D-men are far from what you guys have. We don’t have Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Coburn… We have slightly above average guys so if we don’t want to lose, the whole team must play defense, including all the forwards. All guys backcheck. There is no one who wouldn’t be responsible defensively. If you want to call it a trap? I’m fine with it. Our local team was accused of the same thing – the year they won the Czech league title.
It’s not a matter of what I want to call it, the trap is what the Lightning used last night.
I get what you are saying, and I don’t disagree but despite the Flyers defense being what it is, the fowards are still asked to play sound defensively. Some better than others.
You are absolutely right, the Lightning defense isn’t as strong as th Flyers, and to help make up for it the forwards have to take more of an active approach in helping them out but having forwards who play aggressive two way hockey and instituting a trap which is what the Lightning did. Like I said, I have no issue with it, as boring as it is. If that’s what works for them then so be it.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I guess I’m gonna go hide into on of the corners of our huge cap space and cry myself to sleep.
Damn, well played!
I still love Gags. I recently got him on my fantasy team after some sucker dropped him, and he single-handedly ended my losing streak. :-)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
And since Gagne sucks so bad.
Pssst. It was hyperbole.
I don’t think anybody argues that the trap can be effective. It’s just one of the things that’s killed the popularity of the game over the last decade. It’s effective, but it sucks. Like, really sucks though. Not Gagne sucks.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Because goaltending has nothing to do with that? Look at their SA/G
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
A) The Tampa Bay Lightning have a below average set of defensemen.
B) The Tampa Bay Lightning played a trap against the Flyers last night, probably because Guy Boucher is smart.
They aren’t mutually exclusive statements.
Guy Boucher employed a 1-3-1 at every level he coached. And it does a great job of preventing shots on goal.
His goaltending was terrible to start the year. If you judge defensemen by the number of goals their goalies give up, well… that’s not the best metric.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
No, I just think the defensemen they have aren’t very good at hockey, relative to the rest of the defensemen in the NHL.
And I’m not saying Boucher deployed a trap for the purpose of playing the Flyers last night, I’m saying that pointing out that the Lightning played a trap is an independent statement from saying the Lightning have a bad defense. You can base your game around a good defensive system even if you have bad defensemen.
And that’s fine, I would agree that their defense corps is below average. But their coach does a fantastic job at making the Lightning a good defensive team.
So I’m pointing out what you’re pointing out – that you have to separate “bad defensemen” (which is arguable) from “bad defense”.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Couples things....
Despite winning, I really don’t want to see this team in the playoffs. I can’t explain it but the Flyers have some issues matching up with these guys. And honestly, their first line scares me. Like watching the movie It when your 6 years old scares me.
Secondly, I hate the Lightning, but I don’t. It’s odd. They got on my nerves in 95’ when we beat them in the first round…then in 03-04…they broke my heart. Literally, I had mono at the time and after 7 I had to be hospitalized…I blame it on the Lightning.
This year, they have made me hate them even more…and yet, I can’t hate them as much as I want to. I like what Steve Y has done there. I love Stamkos and Hedman. I even like St.Louis, the annoying little f*ck that he. And then there’s Gagne. I wish nothing but the best but if he were to find himself injured before the playoffs I wouldn’t be broken up about it.
All that being said…great game last night. Reimer played like a man(whatever that means) I expect another week of dominant play before he goes back to being barely noticeable again. Young James is about as streaky as they get.
Vertseeg played a strong game last night. He definitely fits Lavy’s system so that’s good. Unless someone gets hurt I doubt we see Z again.
Let’s extract some revenge on the Panthers for the beating they handed the Flyers a few months back and call it night.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
if he were to find himself injured before the playoffs I wouldn’t be broken up about it.
Well this is something I will never understand. I will never understand why people talk about injuries like that. I don’t really care people are not always serious about it, that they joke about it, that they don’t really mean any harm on anyone. Well… fuck no. You don’t joke about injuries. You just don’t. And if you do, you’re pretty much done in my books.
I’m not joking about injuries, I am joking about Gagne’s rather extensive history with injuries.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Everyone is allowed to, what you mean to say, is that there are only few whom you don’t unleash your unrelenting rage on if they joke about Gagne’s history of injuries.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I have three jerseys with his name on it. And a signed rookie card. Does that count?
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
It’s not about the stuff you have. It’s about what he means to you. Would you put him in front of the Flyers? In front of any team? No? No. Then no.
Anyone who would put Gagne, or any other player for that matter in front of the Flyers or that team is not a hockey fan, they aren’t a Flyers fan. Not a real one. No one player is above the team. You aren’t talking about fandom, you’re talking about obsession.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
by EREX21 on Feb 16, 2011 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I openly admit that I am a Gagne fan first and foremost. You want to call me obsessed because of that? Go ahead. There are no rules or guidelines that would teach you how to be a proper fan. I don’t believe there is only one proper way of being a good fan. You think I’m obsessed with Gagne? Then I pretty much could say you’re obsessed with the Flyers franchise.
I have my own priorities and just because they don’t fit yours doesn’t mean mine are wrong. It’s a bit different to be an NHL team fan and living in the States, growing up with the team and being an NHL fan living on the other side of the Ocean. I don’t really have any bonds to either NHL city and even though I prefer some teams to others, there will always be this one player who I will care for more than for the team. I am not a pro player, I am not obliged to play for the crest on the chest… that’s why I play for the name on the back. And I enjoy it.
I’ll be honest, I strongly disagree with pretty much this entire statement. And I will let it end there, going any further I think will take this from a discussion to an argument, one I have no desire to get into.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
As you wish… But…
You see, the Lightning are my team and that will remain untouched. No matter who ends up on the team or who leaves the team, they still will be my #1 team in the league. I loved them before Gagne became a Bolt, I loved them before I knew who Lecavalier, St.Louis and Richards were. I loved them before Stamkos. And I would love them even if all my favorite players weren’t on the team any longer.
But after watching Simon play for so many years, him lifting the Cup is something I want to see before anything else. And I don’t really care what team’s sweater he would be wearing with the Cup above his head. Obsessed? So be it.
I wish nothing but the best but if he were to find himself injured before the playoffs I wouldn’t be broken up about it.
Those two things are kinda mutually exclusive, are they not? I know you don’t actively want him to get injured, but saying this is pretty much the same thing to me. Just my two cents…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
. And then there’s Gagne. I wish nothing but the best but if he were to find himself injured before the playoffs I wouldn’t be broken up about it.
Honestly, I would, I may be a “weird” fan in some way because of this, but regardless of where we finish the season, I want it to be because we played well, game in and game out. I don’t want any team to have to go through the Leafs trauma of the uncalled high stick setting the tone for their fandom… in the same way, I want every team we face to be fully healthy, there really is something (at the moment) that makes me ALMOST feel bad for the pens, they’re barely icing a competitive team (Staal and desperate call ups) and got smashed (physically and on the score board) in their last 2 match ups… would I feel as great if we beat them by any margin next game? Not really, I’d honestly rather see Crosby and Malkin with minuses and no points because of our team rather than sidelined with injury.
I love Gagne for the decade he logged with the Flyers and how, despite his history of injury, he always came back and gave his best and I hope somehow he gets to finish his career with the Flyers. IMHO it goes against Flyers fandom to speak ill of him, he could’ve treated us like Sundin treated the Leafs.
...
I love Gagne for the decade he logged with the Flyers and how, despite his history of injury, he always came back and gave his best and I hope somehow he gets to finish his career with the Flyers. IMHO it goes against Flyers fandom to speak ill of him, he could’ve treated us like Sundin treated the Leafs.
Like I said above, I am not wishing for him to get hurt, I never said, I hope Gagne goes down, or wouldn’t it be nice if Gagne went down. Again, I was making a joke, apparently a poor one about the fact that he has an extensive injury history.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Except the part about wishing for Gagne to be injured again, I have the same feelings for Tampa. I don’t hate them like I hate (read: sportshate) the Penguins and the Devils and Tortorella’s Rangers, but whenever the Flyers play them, I just want to beat them bad because they are always so damn annoying to play against. And it’s not just this year. Maybe I am having a little confirmation bias as I have not looked this up, but don’t they almost always play well and/or beat the Flyers. At least post-2004. I don’t hate their players or their fans. I just hate that team.
Yes, 2004 does have a lot to do with this. I won’t feel better about that until the Flyers win the Stanley Cup. And even then I may still harbor some ill feelings for that one because that was the year and that was the team. Also, this Lightning team is beginning to remind me of the 2010 San Francisco Giants, who I have similar feelings toward. I don’t hate those players or those fans, but I have grown to hate that team because they just got so damn lucky. What was that stat JJ and Bill brought up last night? 15 of the Lightning’s last 20 wins have been by 1-goal? Isn’t that an eerie comparison to the 8 playoff wins by 1-run the Giants had or whatever that was? It is ridiculous.
Is Paul Holmgren really bad at managing the salary cap? Does Matt Stairs enjoy getting his ass hammered by guys?
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
^THIS
Concur completely. This is why I hate TB. Also, I have family from there, and my fam is one frontrunning group of bastards. Not one word about their baseball team for as long as they’d been there until they were in the WS playing the Phils and then the smacktalk. Aholes. /I say this mostly in jest
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Good lord.
they just got so damn lucky.
I will not ever be able to fathom this statement. Ever. Watch the games. Watch those one-goal wins. And then tell me how damn luck the Lightning got. Ridiculous.
15 out the last 20 wins have been 1-goal wins (is that stat even right?) It may not all be luck, but I guarantee you there is some luck involved there.
Is Paul Holmgren really bad at managing the salary cap? Does Matt Stairs enjoy getting his ass hammered by guys?
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Yes. There is a luck and a chance and everything that affect people’s lives. I could as well say you got lucky last night when Hall hit the post on his shootout attempt.
And the stat is incorrect because out of the last 20 wins the 12 were 1-goal wins. 6 of the 12 games were decided in overtime, 5 in the shootout and 1 in regulation. The Lightning outshot their opponent in 7 of those 12 games.
Call them lucky, but they earned every single point they won so far. And as coach Boucher said, these kinds of games are the games the Lightning are the best at. Tight one-goal games.
Actually, winning one goal games is statistically the definition of luck.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
What exactly are you trying to get at with this?
The fact that the Lightning have won as many one goal games as they have, while having a negative goal differential is further proof of that. It’s is unsustainable luck and eventually it will turn. This isn’t something that is exclusive to hockey, it happens in all sports across the spectrum.
This isn’t to say the Lightning aren’t a good team, but it does mean that they aren’t as good as their record indicates.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
But what about their bad luck with goaltending?
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
As far as I can see and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but their bad luck with goaltending isn’t really an issue anymore. There was an issue at the beginning of the year, mostly because the goaltending was awful but it has been a lot better as of late. The bad luck with goaltending as turned around.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Yes, but aren’t we talking about the entire season here. Or are we narrowing it down to 1 goal games since Roloson was acquired? If we are talking about the whole season, I think the below average numbers Smith and Ellis were putting up fall under the bad luck category.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I was referring to their luck as of late in 1 goal games.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Okay, well then I’m not a fan of referring to it as luck or skill. It’s such a small sample size that I don’t know how anyone could honestly say it is definitively one thing or the other.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I would agree with you, but I think there can be something said for it happening in bunches the way it is.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
If you want to look at it for the full season…20 of their 34 wins are by one goal. That’s astounding.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Tehn I’d bring in, what if they had league average, or even career average goaltending from Smith and Eliis. I’m just curious how many goals difference that would make. It might not make a lot of difference because the system that they run is designed to limit shots, but who knows.
It is a crazy number, but I always worry about teams that win a large amount of 1 goal games in the playoffs. Rightly or wrongly, those are the teams that always scare me the most…in every sport really.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
It is a crazy number, but I always worry about teams that win a large amount of 1 goal games in the playoffs. Rightly or wrongly, those are the teams that always scare me the most…in every sport really.
I agree with you completely. That was why I didn’t want the Phillies to face the Giants in the playoffs, they won close games, and they did it with their version of defense which is solid pitching. It’s the same thing in hockey. Over the course of a season I think those things balance out but once you have shown that you can do it, that is a dangerous weapon come playoff time.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I sportshate the Atlantic Division (except for the Islanders, they’re too pathetic to hate), and whomever the Flyers are playing tonight.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Meszaros Grading
Couple mistakes, but over all very good game, 3.5/5.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I know, but whther a good or bad play results in nothing, or a goal, I don’t penalize or promote any differently. I really good play is a really good play, a pretty good play is a pretty good play, a pretty bad play is a pretty bad play, and a really bad play is a really bad play. I pretty much stick to that for my grading. I don’t let results influence a mistake or a good play, I leth the mistake or good play dictate the grade.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
About two inches from a goal, too. He looked like he really wanted one last night. More than a few chances I noticed.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Don we have to watch a game together sometime I just want to know what you are seeing that I am not. I was able to watch this game pretty close (Biggest Loser drove the wife and kid upstairs) and I graded Mez at a 1.5 maybe 2/5. I though Mez was trying to much especially in the 1st 2 periods. He played a strong 3rd period though.
I though he turned the puck over a lot not sure where to find those numbers for the game though.
The advances stats agree with me and for the Record I just checked them now.
Corsi Team High 13 and +/ of -2 on the game.
I don’t like watching on TV, it makes it more difficult to grade because I can’t watch his positioning as well. I don’t care about his advanced stats from the game. I grade on what I saw, if he can’t have an effect on a play, I don’t give him negatives just because a winger couldn’t clear the puck, or OD lost the puck in the corner. I missed a whole 2 minutes to start the second, so if I missed a bunch of mistakes there, then I screwed up, but that’s why I give a grade for every single game that I watch, so I can take an average.
I’m glad the advanced stats agree with you, awesome job. I still don’t care if you grade differently, or anyone else, this is about my eyes versus the season’s advanced stats for me. I do want you to realize though, in a single game, a players play may not match up with his Corsi or Fenwick, however, over the course of a season, the totals give you a very nice overall perspective of his play. Like I said, I only grade him over what I view he can control. I watch the game differently than you do, I promise you, but that’s because we have different backgrounds with the game and are different people.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Completely understandable just saying even if I don’t agree with you or your perspective I would just like to know where you are coming from and if these rare completely different takes on an individual’s play are do to something I don’t know or understand about the game.
Debating the X’s and O’s of hockey is impossible on this forum especially with MarioD’s John Madden like circles and snapshots but it would be a more interesting conversation than the usual shit we bicker about.
I don’t trust my ratings for games I don’t watch live nearly as much as one’s I watch live. But in general I have rules of thumbs that I can discuss with you, which probably makes up a bit of the gap.
But the important thing is that I’m consistent in my grading, and the others involved are consistent with theirs…meaning we never have to agree, we just have to try to grade, individually, the same way every time we do this.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
It's A Trap
Travis how dare you use the this for Its A Trap this is more blasphemous than wishing injury upon our beloved Gagne.
It’s A Trap is copy righted and belongs solely to Admiral Ackbar. None of this cute kitten crap.
THIS
IS
AWESOME!!!!!
I give tons of extra kudos if the person made this before the first Robot Chicken Star Wars episode where there’s Admiral Ackbar Cereal and he says “Your tatsebuds can’t repel flavor of that magnitude”
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Feb 16, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
How am I not getting more love for going Miss Cleo all over your asses?
Oh, we were wanting to identify the shutdown line for every game going forward?
Richards/Nodl/Versteeg faced St. Louis – Stamkos – Downie.
JVR/Carter/Giroux faced Hall – Bergenheim – Moore.
Carter had 7 non-icing defensive draws; Richards had 6.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2011 11:51 AM EST reply actions
No argument here.
Against superstar line type team I completely understand and agree and forward “shutdown” line matchup using Richards might be employed. But against the other 25+ teams that aren’t Crosby, Stamkos, Ovi and a few others and instead have some balance throughout the lineup. I don’t think you will see a matchup game being played.
Against those others teams it is best to beat them with 3 scoring lines. Our top 3 lines can outscore your top 3 lines. Tampa, Pittsburg, and Washington has one line that can completely takeover and single handily kill you. Preventing that is key but there a lot more teams during in the second category that can not and I think Lavy plays against those teams differently.
I seriously don’t understand where are you coming from with your statement that the Lightning are a one-line team? Yes, the Stamkos line is standing out because it features the leading scorer of the league and the leading pair in scoring but our scoring goes beyond that line.
Gagne-Lecavalier-Purcell line has been playing great lately, according to coach even better than the “top-line”. Lecavalier has 5 goals in last four games and 9 points in last eight games, Purcell has 11 points in last eight games and Gagne has 8 points in last eight games.
Then there are guys like Bergenheim with 5 points in last seven games, Moore, Tyrell and currently injured Malone and Thompson.
We are no power house. We don’t outscore teams by big margin. But we are pretty damn good and much better than just a “one-line team”.
Gagne-Lecavalier-Purcell line has been playing great lately
Lately being the key word.
Stamkos and St. Louis = 141 pts
Rest of Tampa Bay Forwards = 235 pts
A little Math and that is 60% of the offense.
Keeping that off the board I am sure greatly increase your chances of success. I am willing to wager LBH line and the Carter line can outscore the other Tampa lines. So canceling the Richards line for the Stamkos is key for success.
1) I got 376 points scored by all Tampa’s forwards this year.
2) Stamkos, St Louis, and Downie have combine for 165 points, or 44% of the points.
3) Purcell, Lecavalier, and Gagne have combined for 84 points, or 22% of the points, I think that’s ok for a 2nd scoring line that had a horrible start to the year, and has been injured to boot. But if you want to ignore that Gagne and Lecavalier haven’t played in a combined 34 games, but Stamko’s line has only missed 16 games of Downie, that’s cool.
Just saying I don’t think you are looking at the whole picture here.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Well, the argument against it is: It was a road game. And the things Lavy could control (zone situations), is inconclusive.
But you’re point on “no shutdown line against the Islanders” is probably relevant, I’d have to look into it more. I think the Tavares line gets matched up against pretty even split. 60/40 maybe?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
By eye it seemed like Richards took every DZone draw just to prevent the St. Louis line from starting in the offensive zone against the LBH line.
And by that is DZone starts and DZone faceoffs a meaningless stat to look at? If Richards takes the draw than heads to the bench as soon as the puck crosses that red is up ice. Those Zone Starts probably account for less than 10% is total 5 on 5 ice time. And therefore saying is offensive is limited by zone start is pretty insignificant?
Let me know if you need more clarification of what I am getting at but I think it is a pretty valid criticism of the statistic?
I don’t really understand what you’re getting at, no.
If you’re saying the number of times a player takes a defensive draw then immediately goes to the bench is significant enough to render the number insignificant, I entirely disagree. That cannot possibly happen enough times. And when it is most likely to happen – after an icing – I have been tracking (and advocating for) Non-Icing Defensive Zone draws instead.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
Where?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Feb 16, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Ahh. I see. Just think of the ice game…its getting closer. Though it would be nice if it were three days away instead of 10….JEFF.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Feb 16, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
He wears number 44 for the Flyers. Nice guy from what I hear.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Like it says above he’s a Finnish God.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Feb 16, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
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