Friday Morning Fly By: Welcome HuckNZ to the Drunken Masthead Debauchery
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Recaps of last night's win: [BSH] [CSNPhilly] [The700level.com] [Inquirer] [Flyer Files] [delcotimes.com] [Daily News] [Philly Sports Daily] Video: [Frequent Flyers]
- Chris Pronger left last night's game after being struck in the hand by a puck. Early word is MRI negative: [Philly Sports Daily] [Daily News]
- Claude Giroux had himself quite a "ridiculous" game last night: [Philly Sports Daily]
- Ugh. Andrej Meszaros is "clutch". If you believe in that sort of thing. Or Al Montoya fell, whichever: [Philly Sports Daily]
- hahaha, 3 minutes of not-really-play-by-play of a Flyers PK from last night. If you like assholes - and we know you do, you ^don't^ read
usme - you'll want to listen. Oh, beware the cursing: [Flyers Goal Scored By...] - The Sons of Ben invaded the Wells Fargo Center again last night: [Brotherly Game]
- Sadly, Oskars Bartulis is officially out for the year with a shoulder injury: [Philly Sports Daily]
- In honor of Bartulis, Ben Rothenberg put together a tribute video for our Wolf of the Sea: [BSH]
- In response, the Flyers "have inquired" about Adam Foote: [Frequent Flyers]
- Nikolay Zherdev cleared waivers, but remains with the team. For now. [Frequent Flyers] [Philly Sports Daily] [CSNPhilly] [Flyers Faithful]
- Looking at why Ville Leino and Zherdev had different results in Philly: [Flyers Faithful]
- A very thorough update on the Phantoms, including Zherdev, Walker, Rowe, Bourdon, Leighton, and more. Oh, and Derian Hatcher: [PostStar.com]
- The Penguins acquired Alex Kovalev for... basically nothing: [SBNation.com]
- After Mario Lemieux put in a good word for Kovalev: [SBNation.com]
- The Hurricanes got Cory Stillman from Florida: [Canes Country]
- The Ducks got Dan Ellis in exchange for Curtis McElhinney: [SBNation.com]
- While the Canadiens acquired Brent Sopel: [Habs Eyes On The Prize]
- And the Stars' asking price for Brad Richards is either laugh out loud, ridiculously high, or this isn't what they are actually asking for: [SBNation.com]
- A good quote from Paul Bissonnette in an article about Jody Shelley and his 60 stitches: "You have to bring that extra energy, because a lot of guys when they’re playing 15, 20 minutes a night, they don’t have time to come in and make jokes and entertain people."
- Not for the squeamish - though it isn't bloody particularly clear - but Ryan O`Byrne got his face sliced by Taylor Hall's skate. Almost another Clint Malarchuk/Richard Zednik: [Puck Daddy]
- Arguing that the Flyers should acquire Tomas Vokoun. I am inclined to agree. By trading two players from the NHL roster, both of whom are 24 years old or younger. I strongly disagree: [Hockey Prospectus]
- Arguing that the trade deadline - well, the act of trading in general, really - is immoral. An interesting take that I'm not sure I agree with: [The Copper & Blue]
- The Predators confirmed they will have a new jersey next year: [icethetics]
- Ever wonder what official NHL trade calls sound like? Wonder no more: [Down Goes Brown]
- Expected zone shift leaders for the last 4 years: [Behind the Net]
- This will ruffle some feathers: Debunking the theory of "chemistry", claiming it doesn't exist: [The Copper & Blue]
- As you may have heard by now, HuckNZ is now on the masthead. Congratulations to him. Now go read his fanpost on luck, coinflips, and slackers. Oh, it's about the Devils too: [BSH]
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Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
am I still awake?
Oh yeah. Procrastination on my stupid lab report.
Regarding hockey:
-The whole Wolf-being-out thing sucks. For the team, yeah, but for Oskars as well. Finally getting to play more games only to get injured so soon into them has got to be rough on him (or any player.)
- Brent Sopel to the Habs? Are they trying to become Penguins Jr. in regards to ugly?
- Happy belated dbay to Kovalev. (Sorry Travis, couldn’t resist.)
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
From Sam Carchidi of philly.com:
“Winger Nik Zherdev cleared waivers but remained with the team. Zherdev participated in the morning skate on Thursday, but, barring an injury, the team plans to send him to Adirondack of the AHL after the weekend, a club source said.”
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
From the Hockey Prospectus Article:
With the Flyers’ negligible cap space, like salaries would need to be exchanged to make the deal possible — so why not flip recently acquired Kris Versteeg and the kid goalie “Bob” to take a really serious run at the hardware?
Can you imagine the mayhem that would rise up from Flyers fans if they traded Bob right now?
To play devils advocate, acquiring Vokoun would obviously make the Flyers the easy favorite to win the Cup this year. But, the question is, is that worth the potential damage that is costs the Flyers in the future? Bob is an up and coming star and, by the looks of it, is on his way to great things as an NHL goalie. I guess you could say that the Flyers are, arguably, “loaded” with goalie prospects – Backlund, Kovar, Eriksson – (although being a Flyers fan, I don’t think you can have enough goalie prospects) so it may be wise to ship Bob out now, ride Vokoun for a few years and hope that Eriksson or Kovar are ready to take the reigns down the line. Devils advocate.
I just think that it is too risky and relies on variables that are too hard to predict. Would Vokoun be nice? Hell yes, he would. But he just isn’t worth damaging the team so far down the line, imo.
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
Key problem with the trade Vokoun is old and he’s a UFA. Bob’s signed for 2 more years and Versteeg for one more year. Plus, Vokoun, despite all his regular season success, himself is unproven in the playoffs. I’m not saying he’s been terrible in the playoffs or that he couldn’t be good just that he hasn’t played many playoff games so I wouldn’t look at him as “sure thing.”
What can't Giroux do?
I hate the “unproven in the playoffs” bit. Neither is Bob. Neither was Michael Leighton. Or Jaroslav Halak. Or Antii Niemi. Or Marc-Andre Fleury (when he went to the Cup Finals). Or Roberto Luongo. Or Henrik Lundqvist.
Good goalies are good goalies. And while Semyon Varlamov could easily be argued “unproven in the playoffs”, he had a 0.924 ES S% in last year’s playoffs, which is plenty good enough to win.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Besides, Boucher’s proven in the playoffs and he’s no slouch either. It would make more sense (not that I’m advocating this move at all) to trade for Steve Mason, but reports are that he’s been pulled off the trade market now.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Boucher’s proven in the playoffs? That’s news to me.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Playoff career totals:
Boucher 17 wins 2.20 GAA .913 SV%
Vokun 3 wins 2.47 GAA
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Where’s Vokoun’s save percentage?
Since wins and goals against average are entirely dependent upon their teams, and 11 of Boucher’s wins came over 10 years ago, those don’t tell me much, if anything.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Sample size? Team in front? Competition? Come on man you know you cant make valid points on the fly-by’s without using at least some advanced stats.
Samesis
Unfortunately, I don’t have a lot of skill with drilling into advanced stats, thus the lazy response above. But, even if Vokun would be a better-quality goalie than Boucher (which I agree with that), there’s still the suggested price of Versteeg and Bobrovsky. I’d just rather stick with Boucher if that’s the case.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Yeah. I’m never a fan of having a huge contract goalie. It more about whos hot then who has better stats anyway. Look at all the past winners goalies? MAF had his worst pro season the year he won it, and everyone else was just no names or old guys that just got really good in the end.
Samesis
by JpH89 on Feb 25, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And this is my point.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Eventually.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree.
I simply hate the “playoff proven” argument.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Catch 22 – people wont give you the chance to obtain experience in the playoffs because you dont have experience in the playoffs, But, … how the heck do you get the experience unless someone gives you the chance ? Correct ?
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson
by FLYERROB on Feb 25, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly. You’re not a “proven veteran Stanley Cup caliber goalie” until, well, you are.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
Behindthenet quick link to QoC/QoT/Corsi/PDO/Zonestarts
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
The point if you are going to trade for a rental one year guy and not keep him longer like is the case with Vokuon what the hell is the point in giving him experience. BOB even if we don’t win the cup that is still something to build on for the future. And Boosh can takeover if BOB shits the bed.
What is the point? WIN NOW!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I was surprised it took you this long.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Dude, answer your phone and/or check your email.
I’m doing work, that’s why it took me so long.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
But how different is it than carrying a $1.7 million 8th defenseman? Or acquiring a $3 million #8 forward for a first round pick?
Vokoun is a better goalie than anyone the Flyers have. He improves the chances of winning the Stanley Cup. WIN NOW.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Would Vokoun be nice? Hell yes, he would. But he just isn’t worth damaging the team so far down the line, imo.
This.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Agree also in the new NHL goaltending in the playoffs is not be all end all for success. And is improving save percentage for 0.920 to 0.930 going to make a difference. That is a 1% difference or a single save in a 100 shots. Maybe the difference in 1 goal every 3.5 games. I am pretty sure Versteeg can make up for that over a guy like Carcillo.
Also what is the success rate for Goalie deals at the deadline actually making a difference.
Oh, also, I don’t fully understand the title of today’s Fly By. Did I miss something in the game thread? I get that Huck was put on the masthead, but what is the Drunken Masthead Debauchery about?
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
I assume it’s Geoff trying to be clever. I am in no part involved in any debauchery that includes anyone else in the masthead.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Feb 25, 2011 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
Ahh, that makes sense. Hadn’t gotten a chance to read through the Off-Topic Thread because of how many comments there are. Thanks.
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Feb 25, 2011 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
I understand where the drunk part came from. But I believe as is always the case Geoff adds his own debauchery.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Feb 25, 2011 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
I do.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
Versteeg and Bob for Voukon? Oof. I’m mean can Voukon really increase the Flyers chances of winning the Cup that much to warrant such a trade?
Those were my and, I assume, Geoff’s feelings, as well. If that is what we would have to give up to acquire Vokoun, I say “stay put.” Honestly, I really don’t have a problem with our goalie situation. I think that it is made into a bigger deal than it really is just because the Flyers have had goalie issues for so long.
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Feb 25, 2011 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
agreed
plus with zerdev riding the pine, we really cannot afford to lose another winger in my opinion.
and id like it if we could even it means losing a guy like Carle to keep Versteeg and Leino.
Aside from his bad drop at the blue line i thought he was doing some good stuff last night, and that Ritchie-JVR-Steeg line is looking more and more effective.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Feb 25, 2011 7:49 AM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I think he could…but I still wouldn’t make that trade.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Exactly.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, and Florida doesn’t need goalie prospects. There’s a reaason they just traded Salak
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
Yes. Yes it is.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
haha
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
I would like to inform you I have faced my fear and bought a Carcillo shersey. Best descision of my life
Laperriere is my hero
Carcillo's my lover
Bobrovsky's my savior
Hockeys my life
You realize he will be somewhere else next year?
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Shhhh. Don’t rain on her parade. lol
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Feb 25, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
That’s good. Don’t worry about where he’ll be at anytime in his career; he’s your favorite player and is on the Flyers. So now you have a capture of the best of both worlds forever!
Thank you! Thats why I finally decided to go for it, cause when he’s gone I’ll still have it. Yeah he probably won’t be a Flyer for too much longer, so I’ll hold on to it for as long as possible
Laperriere is my hero
Carcillo's my lover
Bobrovsky's my savior
Hockeys my life
by Cillo stache on Feb 25, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Cillo Stache
Do you really think that Carcillo is sexy looking ?

FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson
When did we sign one of the Geico Cavemen?
If these walls could speak, I wouldn't tell them anything.
yes.
Hang on a moment while I rumage through my image file (theres 300+ Carcillos in there) 
Yes. Yes I do.
Laperriere is my hero
Carcillo's my lover
Bobrovsky's my savior
Hockeys my life
by Cillo stache on Feb 25, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
See thats why its great to be a guy. You could be a bone ugly mug and get a hot babe because they see INNER beauty as much as outer beauty.
I.E. – Billy Joel and Christy Brinkley. (my Inspiration as a teenager that even a dork like me could get a hottie.)
another I.E. (my own profile pic and my own hottie that I am going to marry ! -—→
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson
That Flyers Faithful article which draws the parallels between Leino and Zherdev is really interesting. With his performance in the playoffs, I guess it’s easy to forget that Leino was repeatedly a healthy scratch after the trade and didn’t really crack the lineup regularly until injuries gave him that chance. Now look at him.
If Zherdev is designated to the sticks, accepts the assignment, and they wish to recall him later, can other teams still put in a claim? I seem to remember some discussion that other teams could get a second crack if the Flyers attempted to recall Leighton at some point.
If Zherdev is recalled during the regular season, he’s subject to re-entry waivers (so other teams can claim him, pay only half of his cap hit, and saddle the other half with us). There are no waivers (more or less?) during the playoffs.
"Dammit, Pronger!"
That’s if he’s even re-assigned. Which he likely won’t be.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Reminder:
Only one day away from the first BSH Open-Ice Game. I, for one, cannot wait!! If only a certain member of the masthead was coming we could all make fun of him to his face. We’ll have to settle for behind his back I guess.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
And if you are on the list, and you haven’t confirmed you are coming to the open ice tomorrow by noon, I am assuming that means you aren’t, and I’ll find a fill in.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Now now, stop kicking Morency while he’s down.
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Feb 25, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
UPDATED With new links.
Including one that says “chemistry” is a myth. Argue away.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:19 AM EST reply actions
It’s okay to use words like chemistry, but not luck…come on Geoff.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I almost put something in there like that. Couldn’t phrase it properly.
But basically, statisticians get slammed for using “luck”, but “watch the game” people immediately go to “chemistry, momentum, and intangibles.”
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
That line has heart, grit, and anabolic steroids!
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Am I the only one who thinks of “Guys and Dolls” when they hear the word ‘chemistry’?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I’m a myth?
:(
But yeah, intangibles are impossible to fully quantify, thus rendering any attempt to do so as having some flaw. It’s not that they don’t exist, but they are more of a feeling rather than something like factual.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Feb 25, 2011 10:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree, it’s not quantifiable in the least, but it’s definitely there. Every player has their own unique skill set, and combining them certain ways makes really good lines, while other combinations are really bad, and others (most combinations) will be somewhere in the middle.
In the simplest example I can think of, some guys are good shooters, while others are good playmakers. They are both good players on their own, but combined they are even better because the shooter has someone to get him the puck, and the playmaker has someone to pass to. They help each other do their jobs better.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
But if you look at the situation HBL get to play in, you can see where most of their success comes from. No one is saying you can have 3 guys that only shoot and never pass, but they are saying the success generated by a line can be found in easily quantifiable things.
This isn’t the EA NHL Franchise where you have to match player types on lines. These are dynamic people, with adaptable talents with strengths and weaknesses.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
What? But the graphics are so realistic! I thought I was controlling real people! That’s why I never make them play on a real game night, they need their rest!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Seriously, I see your point. But using one person’s strengths to fill in for another’s weaknesses still seems like a valid thing to me. We do it at work all the time.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I agree, but that also isn’t called chemistry, I define that as strategy. The same strategy that is used when deciding to play Leino heavily in the Ozone for his starts. HBL is mostly successful because of their zone starts, and that they are playing 3rd line competition. They are just dominating inferior players while being put in a very good starting position. But all you hear about that line is their chemistry.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Hmm, gotcha. So that situation just isn’t an example of proper usage of that term, then.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Well to me it’s not, but I’m also not an English major, so I’m sure someone will come in with all the definitions of chemistry at some point. But I never saw matching players on a line so their talents and deficiencies are complimented and masked as chemistry, I see that as a common sense move that involves strategy based on the way their scouts had assessed as their strengths and weaknesses, not as some fanciful chemistry that appeared the first times their eyes met.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I also think the word “chemistry” comes with alot of baggage – it’s often used to describe complex social and psychological interactions, sotra like people “clicking”. Maybe more precise term would be “familiarity”. I’d think that knowing what one another is capable of can influence your choices or how you interact with one another (I’ve never played hockey so I don’t know for sure). In baseball you see this with 2nd basemen and shortstops turning double plays or the relationship between pitcher and catcher. I remember one year when Jason Varitek went down – the BoSox staff went to shit for a little bit until they redjusted to a new catcher. I’m sure QBs knowing their receivers various moves and dekes has some benefit. As to whether or not things like that can be quantified or if they can be, then whether or not it yields any statistically significant outcomes I don’t know but, I believe it should neither be wholly dismissed nor over emphasized.
by j reed on Feb 25, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But that is something that can be developed with anyone over time.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
If there happens to be some sort of instanteous reaction between players I’m sure that it would be rare enough to be an outlier. It certainly is in everday life. I would think this is implicit and not worth exploring. Reducing it to such either/or parameters seems more an consideration tailored for a statistical argument. And it’s kinda boring. It’s like proving that clutch hitting isn’t a sustainable skill. I was able to make that intellectual leap by the very fact that it takes some luck to get a base hit.
The only thing with chemistry that I see, and again, this may in fact be quantifiable based on talents—but Briere once did an interview where he described it as teammates seeing the same thing on the ice, the same play, developing exactly as you are seeing it. You are all on the same page and of the same mind essentially.
That’s how he defined line chemistry.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
But every line can develop whatever that is over time. If a line is together enough you see the same things as a unit. Better players have better vision etc. If that line constantly faced the other teams top line, that “chemistry” wouldn’t be as apparent in the numbers.
People just like t use the term chemistry and apply it liberally to anything that makes a line effective. Any line playing together over a period of time will learn each other’s tendencies.
That’s also a pretty generic quote I would expect to hear.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I was just relaying what I had heard.
I pretty much agree with you that there’s really no such thing as chemistry unless it’s real science. The “spark” between a man and a woman is bullshit. You’re either attracted to the person or not. “On-screen chemistry” as it’s known between actors is more about actors being good at their craft and making you believe they like each other—BUT—I will say this: some actors/ppl do have what they call an “x factor,” in that there personality, regardless of talent, allows them to shine brighter than the rest. That is an intangible that I believe in, having seen it firsthand.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I’m a myth?
:(
But yeah, intangibles are impossible to fully quantify, thus rendering any attempt to do so as having some flaw. It’s not that they don’t exist, but they are more of a feeling rather than something like factual.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Feb 25, 2011 10:36 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Two players I’d like to see the Flyers add before the deadline: Colin Frazer and Steve Montador. Frazer has Cup experience from last year, is an established defender, plays with energy, can play center (important if Betts is more injured than lead to believe) and carries a modest cap hit into next season. Montador provides grit, decent mobility and puck-carrying skills and is a UFA at the end of the year. Both should be cheap to acquire. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Flyers try and add another Sabre defenseman — Craig Rivet — off re-entry waivers by noon.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
With regards to the Leino/Zherdev comparison. I see the situation totally differently. Leino suceeded here in Philly because of his selfless style of play. When put on the LBH line in the playoffs last year his team play and playmaking style made Briere and Hartnell playing more to their potential. Leino began to gain confidence and a consistency in his game and became better than he ever was before. Zherdev doesn’t make anyone else around him better with his style of play, talented hockey player for sure, but he didn’t bring out in his linemates the same thing Leino did.
Agreed. Leinos a monster on the forecheck, whereas I didnt see Zherdev in the corners too much. Theres more to this comp than just the stats.
by philiafan14364 on Feb 25, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
That immorality of the trade deadline article was a little much. It’s not as if players don’t know they could be traded. And the comparison of NHL players movement to that of only the most beleaguered workers is a a stretch. Those poor NHL players and their minimum 550K. NHLers have a union. If they have a problem with trades it’s obvious they decided it wasn’t worth fighting over as recent as 04-05. Not too mention the financial and legal problems Euro style restructuring would cause.
I think this piece would be better if focused on prospects. They get traded just a much as NHLers, they have even less say than NHLers, they make far less money, and the trades can send them just as far away as any NHL trade. Prospects get harmed far more than NHLers by trades.
What can't Giroux do?
I agree. It was a bit much, but that’s why I enjoyed the bit about Canadian Juniors. That’s becoming a problem.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
It is becoming a problem, but taking away the drafts at the CHL level may not make things any better. If the CHL can’t get top players to report to those franchises by drafting them, they’ll never get good players to sign there as something like a free agent. With the draft, they at least have a chance that the player will report.
For example, Rimouski as a franchise has a pretty decent history, but it’s in the middle of nowhere, really. It is pretty up there, a town way up river from Quebec City. In 2002-03 They were last in the entire Q with only 11 wins and 25 points (72 games played). They had been a little better the year before, in 01-02 they had 33 wins and 72 points in 72 games played, 6th in an 8 team division. Well, well, well, 03-04 comes around, now Sidney Crosby’s on the team, suddenly they win their division and have a 19% increase in attendance. Now they have a young phenom there to bring people in. Crosby’s gone after 2 years, now attendance drops by 14% after his departure.
My point is, those major junior CHL franchises need to have a top player once in a while to ensure their survival. Without CHL drafts, there’s no way Crosby (who could have picked any team he wanted) goes to out-of-the-way, last place Rimouski. But they draft him first overall, he reports, and he takes them to the Memorial Cup 2 years later.
The system is flawed, and yes the players have leverage because they can bolt to the NCAA, but taking the system away gives those teams no chance of survival.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 25, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Bit of a sticky wicket, to put it simply. Yes, it’s difficult to feel badly for NHL players w/ the salaries they earn at the NHL level. Historically I tend to think of what minor league players on 2-way contracts earn and try to imagine them getting by w/ only a fraction of that salary to ride the buses. Please let me know of any other articles relating to this problem, especially regarding the juniors, as I lately have taken a deeper interest in political/ collective bargaining issues and the like. It’s on everyone’s mind around here these days.
BTW, does anyone know how I can find a copy of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Worth_(TV_film)
It looked interesting to me, anyway.
Foote would be an interesting pickup. His offensive production has obviously dropped off from when he was in his prime, but he’d still bring some good depth and experience. Hmm.
As much as it would be nice to have Vokoun in net, I still don’t imagine he’ll come cheap, and I’m not comfortable giving up a lot at this point in the season. We’re doing well, the team looks good. Why do people feel the need to shake up the roster right now? Am I being complacent? Is anybody else nervous about the thought of making such a significant change 3/4 of the way through the season when we’re 1st in the conference?
In Bissonnette’s quote, is “a lot of guys…don’t have time to come in and make jokes and entertain people” a reference to Pronger?
I’m really not liking the moves the Penguins are making. It’s like GMs feel bad for them losing Crosby and Malkin and are giving them good players as “Get Well Soon” gifts. The problem is, when their injured guys start to come back, they’re gonna be fucking good.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I disagree about the Pens getting better. Kovalev has earned the dreaded “enigmatic” tag for his sometimes half-hearted play in Ottawa; I just don’t think he has much left in the tank. And if Neal was all he is cracked up to be, why were the Stars so willing to unload him and his fat contract? I’m actually underwhelmed by the moves the Pens made.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
And if Neal was all he is cracked up to be, why were the Stars so willing to unload him and his fat contract?
Since Joe Niewendyk is not a particularly good GM? That and, in part, the media overrates Neal a bit. Much more of the former than the latter.
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by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Perhaps I just don’t know enough about Neal. What kind of player do you think he projects to be?
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Depends on his minutes. Given Crosby’s minutes and Neal’s style of play and age, maybe consistent 25-35 goal scorer. Could hit 40.
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by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Obviously, I’ll have to correct my initial assessment. I had him pegged more as a 15-25 goal scorer, mainly because I haven’t paid much attention to him up to now. If he scores 25+ goals a year for the Pens, I’ll have to take notice of him.
I still stand by my analysis of Kovalev though.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
But Kovalev has played in Pittsburgh before and did well there. I wonder if he just didn’t fit in well in Montreal and Ottawa. They both seem like really difficult places to win the fans over. How many players go into those cities and come out labeled “enigmatic?” It’s entirely possible that it doesn’t mean anything (since it was a decade ago), but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a bit of an uptick from him being back in Pittsburgh.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I’d be willing to put money on “no uptick or a downtick.”
I think we are severely overrating these moves by the Penguins.
I don’t see him having a sudden increase in numbers just because of Crosby. He was playing with Richards and Eriksson in pretty favorable situations in Dallas.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
This.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Seems to me like the growth curve for “power forward” types is a bit longer than for other forwards. At least, that’s what I see in Eric Fehr, Loui Eriksson, Mike Knuble, and a few others. And Neal should be entering his offensive prime now, the few years before UFA age (I know I screwed those years up before, sorry).
Looking at Hockey Reference, if Neal could stay healthy and play 70+ games a season (like in his first two years), he could actually be labeled a consistent 25 goal scorer. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to guess his numbers get a bit better with age, and with Crosby (or Geno, who’d be even better for Neal’s numbers, I’d think).
Moreover, I think Neal gets more PP time in Pittsburgh (he was at 2.37/gm in Dallas).
All I’m saying is that Neal, an easy 25-goal scorer if healthy most of the season, gets a bit better with age, more PP time, better linemates. Give him a great shooting% year and he’ll hit 40.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
You missed my point. I was commenting on him playing with Crosby at 5 on 5, and how that won’t impact his numbers given from who he was playing with, and the situations he was in (meaning zone starts and competition).
I agree that he has yet to fully develop, but any increase in production I would attribute almost solely to development, not from playing with Crosby when he was already playing with Richards and Eriksson at 5 on 5. If he sees more PP time (say more like Kunitz’s 4+ min per game), then sure, production would increase, but that isn’t a jump from just playing with Crosby. I see Crosby + Kunitz and Richards + Eriksson as a wash given 5 on 5 situations.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Yeah, sorry. Maybe I’m just down on Richards, but I think he’s terribly overrated.
I’m seeing for this season:
Richards—easy comp, great teammates, middling zonestart, 1.6 Corsi, 28 shots for per 60
Crosby—easy comp, middling teammates, worst zonestart, 3.3 Corsi, 35 shots for per 60
Hmm, Crosby must have had some brutal games since the last time I checked a while back. I remembered him around 9.
And last season:
Richards—middling comp, middling teammates, tough zonestart, 1.7 Corsi, 30 shots for per 60-2nd tough comp, middling teammates, middling zonestart, 11.4 Corsi, 35 shots for per 60
Crosby
Eriksson isn’t too far off from Richards in either year.
Definitely better to play with Sid than Brad.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
The entire crux of Don’s point is that the margin between Sid+winger and Richards+Eriksson isn’t that great. Obviously, Sid is going to compare favorably against any center in the league, but in ignoring the winger comparison, you’re not addressing the issue. Eriksson might only be at Richards level, but their level is about as high above Kunitz as Sid’s is above them.
Yeah, I think the margin between Sid + Kunitz and Richards + Eriksson is a lot bigger than it’s being given credit for. Kunitz ain’t no Eriksson, but he ain’t no slouch neither, and Sid >> Richards.
I assumed that Neal would be locked onto Sid like Eriksson onto Richards, but if you want Kunitz’s numbers too, compared to Crosby:
This season: tougher competition (to middling), better teammates (middling), better zone start (slightly tough), slightly better Corsi.
Last season: tougher competition (2nd toughs), best teammates, better zone start, slightly better Corsi.
There’s something for talent, but talent doesn’t mean anything if you don’t use it, and Sid + Kunitz use talent much, much better than Richards and Eriksson (at least at 5on5).
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I assumed that Neal would be locked onto Sid like Eriksson onto Richards, but if you want Kunitz’s numbers too, compared to Crosby
I don’t understand this. Neal is the variable here. He locks into Crosby-Kunitz as he locked into Richards-Eriksson.
Maybe I’m just losing track of what the argument is, though.
I didn’t really understand what he was getting at there either. So I went right to the link, and the link has been the data I’ve been reviewing.
Now if my data import to excel would work, I’d do some fun calculating to see if I can come to any conclusion about Neal’s predicted points playing with Crosby + Kunitz over the previous 2 and a half years versus where he was, but the stupid web address is too long.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Try to save the target page as an HTML and then open with Excel.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Feb 26, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
As Snevik said, you are ignoring the whole Crosby + Whoever is about the same as Richards + Eriksson. I think Crosby is the best player in the world and Richards is over rated, but I also think Eriksson is a superior player to Kunitz, though I’m sure people will disagree.
And not only that, Neal was put in those favorable positions with Richards this year, and won’t get the same benefit playing with Crosby. That’s all.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Is it really that relevant? The assumption is that he’ll be joined to Sid at the hip and get all of Sid’s good ice time and maybe miss out on some of the bad TOI. The Pens with Sid on ice (compared to off ice) are better than the Stars with Richards on ice (compared to off ice). That’s it.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
And I’ll repeat myself.
my belief is the difference in production at 5 on 5 solely based on line mates and how they are used 5 on 5 will be marginal
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
When I have some time I actually do some analysis on the numbers to what they tell me more than what I already know by looking at the same things you linked to.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Future tense? I can’t parse the sentence. Must be time for bed.
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by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I would jump all over Adam Foote in a second. He easily be another Jason Smith for this team. And he probably come really cheap.
I would jump all over Adam Foote in a second.
Might want to rephrase.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I’m just returning the favor that I’ve gotten many times.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I’m just returning the favor that I’ve gotten many times.
Care to rephrase that?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Nope.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Chemistry
I think chemistry exists, but I think it’s a term that’s overused and oversimplified.
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
I also think that players will develop chemistry if you give them 5 games or so as it is, if they don’t have it to start with.
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by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I think it’s a combination / “either-or” of good players playing with other good players, or styles of play which happen to complement one another.
If Player X is a slick passer, Player Y tends to crash the net / hang out in the low slot, and Player Z is strong along the boards and can shoot / score from a distance, chances are they’re going to have chemistry because each player fills a specific role well.
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
Or, you could put three very skilled players together who play similarly and can overwhelm the opposition (see: Legion of Doom).
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
But is that chemistry, or it is synergy?
I think chemistry has to exist, because even if people believe good chemistry is either a myth or explained by other factors, I don’t know of a good argument to prove that bad chemistry doesn’t exist. Some players get along great, their styles of play should complement each other, but when put together the results are terrible and it doesn’t get better over time.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 25, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I know chemistry exists between people.
I’ve been in bands where I’ve had chemistry with the other members because our styles of playing complemented each other well. And I’ve been in bands that have had chemistry because everyone got along well. And I’ve been in bands that have had chemistry because certain members could make up for the shortcomings of others.
And I’ve been in bands that have had synergy, as you said. It’s an important distinction to make.
Chemistry, as such, exists in life. There’s no reason to think that it doesn’t exist in sports, or is a “myth” or whatever. Is the term overused, much like “hustle” and “grit” are overused? Yes, absolutely. But can players display chemistry, just as they can display hustle and grit? Certainly. These things exist, but the terms are used too often and in too many situations. This takes credence away from them.
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
The argument might not be about whether chemistry exists—we define it as a psychological condition more than anything, so it seems likely that it could—but whether it has utility on top of the combined output of the players/musicians. I suppose the only way to attack that question is quantification.
I should mention that I haven’t read the article yet (it’s my lunch reading), but theoretically, it seems like chemistry can exist without it having any added utility.
Can’t chemistry be created, though, given enough time? I know there are people I’ve hated for some time, but I learn to love them by being forced to hang out with them (small high school sucks). Seems to me like these guys who’ve been playing hockey for years should, in most cases, be able to adapt to each other.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Feb 25, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
The Pens gave up almost nothing because they got almost nothing.
by philiafan14364 on Feb 25, 2011 10:33 AM EST reply actions
from the latest DGB
“What an NHL trade call sounds like”
- If you are calling to report a completely fictional “rumour” in a desperate attempt to trick stupid people into visiting your terrible web site, press e5.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Feb 25, 2011 10:43 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I wonder what it would look like if the post was Holmgren centered. I’ve got a paper to finish tonight, but maybe tomorrow I will ruin DGB’s humor, er, I mean do one based on Paul Holmgren!
Is Paul Holmgren really bad at managing the salary cap? Does Matt Stairs enjoy getting his ass hammered by guys?
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Per Flyers GM Paul Holmgren… Defenseman Erik Gustafsson has been recalled and will join the team in Ottawa this afternoon.
From Flyers FB page.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
If I’m correct, doesn’t that mean someone will have to be sent down? Zherdev?
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Oskars can go on IR to clear a roster spot
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 25, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
He wasn’t assigned anywhere, just waived. So he is still with the Flyers.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I thought he was assigned to the Phantoms? I must’ve misheard/misread/misthought. Waiving a player doesn’t remove them from the roster?
Nope, he’s still on the Flyers roster. Waiving him just gives us permission to send him down. We don’t have to do it. (For 30 days or 10 games, is that right?) Don’t worry, I didn’t know any of these subtleties before yesterday, either.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I really don’t expect anyone to know the subtleties, other than myself. There are others here who do know them or know most of them, but I only hold myself accountable to the ridiculous standard of having the knowledge handy.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 25, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Clock is on, DG: will you get the FAQ up before I take up actually reading it?
I feel like, at this point, someone could just scour your past comments and copy and paste responses to compile a definitive guide.
I hope so. I’ve been working on it for a long time, but work keeps getting in the way. I’m only even home now because I’m not feeling good and I’m hoping to go in late.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 25, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
This is correct.
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by Travis Hughes on Feb 25, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Nope
I broke it down in yesterday’s Fly By, see here: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2011/2/24/2011619/thursday-morning-fly-by-two-fewer-soviets-on-flyers#59945134
Waivers give you permission to assign someone to the minors. But until you make the transfer (if you ever make it), they stay on the NHL roster. They can play, they count toward the cap, and they continue to take up a roster spot.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 25, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Dude, where have you been ;)
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
And now we’ll lose every game from here out. What have you done?!?!
/kidding, I hope
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Do'H
Thats almost as bad as saying “We have been healthy all this time with no injuries” or " [Insert goalie name here] is so far standing on his head and has a shutout going !"
GGgggggrrrrrrrr !!!!

FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson
Today in Flyers' History:
25 February, 2008: The Flyers end a 10-game losing streak (0-8-2) by beating the Buffalo Sabres in a shootout, 4-3. After the game, it is announced that the team has traded Alexadre Picard and a 2009 2nd-round draft choice to the Tampa Bay Lightning in exchange for Vaclav “Vinny” Prospal. Prospal is expected to be a playoff rental to replace the injured Simon Gagne, which is precisely what happens.
25 February 2009: The Flyers shut out the Los Angeles Kings, 2-0, behind a power-play goal from Jeff Carter, an empty-netter from Simon Gagne, and 34 saves from Martin Biron. It would be Ossi Vaananen and Glen Metropolit’s last games as Flyers, as they were placed on waivers the next day to make room for the return of Daniel Briere from injury.
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
So I’m just catching up with this story now, but this whole thing with the coach and the player at Holy Family?
The coach gets a little physical in practice, the player got a bloody nose and what appears to be a bruised ego, and now the coach has resigned. It definitely seemed like the coach stepped over the line a little bit, but he apologized multiple times both to the player and the whole team and the player still wouldn’t accept it.
Watch the video from Good Morning America. The coaches’ explanation seems totally in line with what I see in the video. Does anybody else get the impression that this kid needs to just get over it? I feel bad for the coach and after reading all the opinions online about this, I feel like I’m the only one with that feeling.
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I caught that yesterday. The kid actually filed a police complaint! I agree that he stepped over the line a bit, but not to the point that a complaint needed to be filed, or that he needed to resign. That kid is a punk, in my eyes. What does he really want to happen here?
But the fact that the attorney’s are present in the interview tells you all you need to know. This isn’t over.
I'm kind of a dick.
Most of his teammates sided with the coach. I bet they hate the kid. He’s gonna have to transfer, cause he sure as hell isn’t getting laid there anymore.
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by Travis Hughes on Feb 25, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Bob is not getting laid here anymore. And that’s been a good thing.
Is Paul Holmgren really bad at managing the salary cap? Does Matt Stairs enjoy getting his ass hammered by guys?
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Im suspicious that he might have learned about craigslist
Some shaky pucks have gotten past him
by Prometheus74 on Feb 25, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
He was checking out the Ice Girls pretty good last night, thats for sure.
Laperriere is my hero
Carcillo's my lover
Bobrovsky's my savior
Hockeys my life
by Cillo stache on Feb 25, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Preston and Steve were talking about it, and they also thought exactly what you’re saying.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
It infuriates me that this is an issue.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
“To be honest, it’s kind of hard to accept your apology, just because you claim it’s justified, you claim you weren’t crossing the line. … As your player I’m supposed to be able to respect you and I don’t feel I can do that anymore,” Kravchuk said.
I hope the kid had tissues nearby.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Shit, if he wasn’t such a flower in the damn drill it wouldn’t have been an issue anyway.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 25, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
The coach probably did cross the line, but honestly, it happens all the time in sports. Not saying it’s OK, but this can’t be the first time the kid has experienced this type of treatment. He and his family see a meal ticket because someone caught it on tape and to the layman it looks really bad. This isn’t on video—I don’t think anything comes of this.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Did he cross the line? Most likely. But these things aren’t black and white to me. He didn’t choke the kid, he didn’t punch him, he didn’t throw anything at him, etc.
And he immediately apologized. It was a brief and small step over the line, for which he apologized. There was very little harm done, and nothing psychological (like being tied up and locked in an electrical closet – Texas Tech?, or choked by Bobby Knight).
This kid has a right to be upset, but going public and acting the way he does makes him look like a bitch.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
If the coach didn’t apologize immediately after the incident to the kid, and then the team, I think I wouldn’t be as harsh towards the player here…but damn kid, grow up…though the injury sucks.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
it was a bloody nose. boo hoo.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
(But yes, the coach’s immediate reaction and subsequent reaction goes a long way toward me calling the kid a pussy.)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
This was also in the article:
suffered a torn ligament in his wrist as a result of the incident that was captured on video, the player’s lawyer said today.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
He’s softer than I realized.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 25, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, the player’s lawyer said that?
Weren’t we just talking about hatin’ on lawyers? I don’t buy it.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I’m just trying to be a little fair.
Oh and stop forgetting $’s in your Excel formulas when you drag to copy.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Where the fuck do the $s come into play?? It’s infuriating.
And while true, that wasn’t my problem.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
They fix/hold the cell reference, so the formula will always refer to that cell. Freaking handy.
Mourning Gagne forever.
That is pretty handy.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 26, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
From what I understand the coach didn’t immediately apologize. He also kicked the kid out of practice for talking to the asst coach or whatever.
Bottom line—I don’t think the coach was without fault, but the kid filing a POLICE report is re-goddamn-diculous. Thankfully, criminal charges were thrown out.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
In the interview that’s what was said, and the kids lawyer or the kid didn’t refute it.
And by immediately, I mean after practice.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I’ve seen lots of conflicting reports out there then. Of course, when people don’t refute things they also don’t support them, either. It leaves them wiggle room. Just a needlessly ugly situation that is going to tie up the courts when there are real crimes being committed.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I think they dropped the charges since he stepped down.
I haven’t read the article in a bit. But I’m willing to believe them there, especially since they made a big deal that the coaches lawyer was saying the whole team wrote/endorsed the letter and the player and player’s lawyer sternly denied that.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
The criminal charges aren’t being pursued, but that doesn’t mean the civil case won’t happen.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
I know you’re right, but didn’t we just have a conversation yesterday abut how our society is too litigious? Yeesh.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 25, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
haha, yes, we did.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 26, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Someone should get Leino to call this kid and tell him to stop being a puss about his coach punching him in the head.
In the video on KYW it was more like a shove to the ground, and I don’t think I want him talking to Jeff Skinner….
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 25, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
it looked to me like a rising shoulder. The whole “my coach isn’t participating in this drill” argument is entirely valid, but the “my coach abused me” argument is lame.
It wasn’t anything that doesn’t happen in college basketball every possession. The only difference is that it was completely surprising, since the guy delivering the blow isn’t participating.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 25, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
I’m with you, I think it happens all the time with other players… it was a joke gone awry about how it looked more like the way Coburn put Skinner onto the ice than the way it looked when Lavy punched Leino’s helmet.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 25, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
standings
Even though the Canucks still lead by a point, their play last night wasn’t that spectacular. Only a one goal game like ours, though a regulation win. And that was against the Blues.
I think it’s wonderful that we’re so far out from Tampa and Pittsburgh and that we’ve had the grit to come up with the two points last night.
Flyers D Chris Pronger questionable for Saturday’s game in Ottawa. Flyers recall D Erik Gustafsson.
Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter

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