Tuesday Morning Fly By: Oh My Kimmo! Crosby Skated!
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Chris Pronger will undergo surgery today and miss 3-4 weeks: [BSH] [The700Level.com] [Frequent Flyers] [Philly Sports Daily] [CSNPhilly] [Flyers Faithful] [delcotimes.com] [Daily News] [Inquirer]
- As a result, they recalled Erik Gustafsson from the Phantoms: [PostStar.com]
- Eric Wellwood had some really nice things to say about Gustafsson: [Philly Sports Daily]
- Coming back after the flu, Jeff Carter has been playing quite well: [Daily News]
- Gary Bettman presented a five point plan to reduce concussions. It's really that simple! [NHL.com] [Puck Daddy]
- If the NHL returns to Winnipeg, the team won't be called the Jets. Either that's a terrible bluff or a travesty: [SBNation.com]
- Sidney Crosby skated yesterday. Naturally, this was big news: [SBNation.com]
- Another update on jersey changes for next season: [icethetics]
- What does "going into a defensive shell" look like, exactly? [Behind The Net]
- Mike Testwuide wrote another blog post, this time on his decision to attend his brother's rival school: [TESTWUIDEBROS]
- Mario Lemieux wants to fine NHL teams per suspension to their players. Good or bad? [Puck Daddy]
- In case you missed it in the Fly By yesterday, try your hand at spinning the NHL's Wheel of Justice: [NHL Wheel of Justice]
- The League of Extraordinary Statisticians (including me, this week) are asked whether a defensive defenseman can match the value of an offensive defenseman: [Behind the Net]
- Using GVT to look at players' value by position: [Hockey Prospectus]
- A look at some of the angry letters Gary Bettman has received recently: [Down Goes Brown]
- Lastly, a Weekly Prospect Report so good, you get 5 stars this week. Dave Labrecque, Tye McGinn, Mike Testwuide, Brandon Manning, and Brian Stewart. Take a bow: [Flyers Faithful]
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Pronger is down which as I have said in the past is a good thing. This will insure not overplaying him going into the playoffs. With that said Odonnel needs a week off minimum or he might just implode on the ice. The last person they can afford to play 30 minutes a night (yes that was an exaggeration for emphasis purposes) is Kimmo. What are the odds they ligitimately give gustafson consistent minutes to see if in fact he is, over a small sample, able to compete in the NHL. And Boyton needs to get increased minutes as well. Maybe they can alternate Odonnel after a week off with Kimmo every other game until the playoffs? A long summer is really going to benefit both Pronger and Kimmo.
Just Call Me "M"!
This stuff with Winnipeg
It’s really annoying me. What is the holdup? The sooner they agree to move a team back there, the sooner they can get to work on a new, NHL-sized stadium, and the sooner we can discuss moving some more teams up north. Canda or not, anywhere out of some of the weaker markets in the South. I like Hockey in the south, where it’s supported. I like it anywhere. But why purposely weaken the NHL brand like this?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
You’re assuming Winnipeg is a better NHL market than some of those markets. Which isn’t necessarily true.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait… Are you suggesting that Winnipeg is a worse market that Atlanta or Phoenix or Miami?
Winnipeg has always had a good market for hockey the only reason their attendance was down the year before they moved was because it was a Lame duck season for the team and they were moving no matter what. It was just a casualty of a map with a few too many push pins in a general area.
I’m not suggesting it’s worse. I’m saying it isn’t necessary true that Winnipeg is better.
http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2010/12/8/1536097/nhl-relocation-winnipeg-quebec-city
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
well … you source the exact reason there is no team in Winnipeg anymore … just because there are a lot of people to potentially spend money doesn’t mean they will … what is that saying about the past and repeating and doom?
So there’s a reason there is no team in Winnipeg any more, but because those few, poor people love hockey so much they are a better market than the large, affluent people who haven’t seen any good hockey ever?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
You can lead a horse to water …
Just because there are 15 million more people in one area over another doesn’t mean there will be a market for it. Which is better selling 5000 tickets a night in Phoenix or selling 10000 tickets a night in Winnipeg.
The experiment has failed you can’t just put a hockey team where there is a lot of people an hope it takes. Occasionally you get a group that really takes to a team (Carolina) or warms up to them over time (Tampa, Nashville to a point), but you are also going to go through the failures and stop trying to force the market to accept something they don’t want.
It isn’t like retail where you don’t see a Hot Topic in a 50 mile radius so you plot another one down in a local mall. Sports don’t work that way. It isn’t just a business it is a bond with the team and the market and you can’t synthesis that bond. Moving a team from a small market to a larger one just on the off chance that there will be more people to buy a t-shirt or two is a shitty business strategy for a sports team and it something that this Commissioner has not gotten.
Moving back to Winnipeg actually could show me some change in thinking that maybe he finally get that you can’t treat this league as business first and sport as an after thought; that number of people in a market can’t out weight passion that people have for sport. Only then maybe … just maybe the league could actually begin to grow ways that would be beneficial for the sport and for the fans and once those two aspects are taken care of then the business will follow suit. Absolutely nothing can drive the bottomline more than passion.
I don’t have the time to break this down the way I really want to, so I’ll just say this:
How do you think those fans in Carolina, Tampa, and Nashville warmed up to their teams? Those teams have won. You can’t say Phoenix fans aren’t passionate enough or they aren’t deserving. First, the Coyotes are getting 11,700 fans a game this year. That’s less than 3k fewer than the Devils and over 1k more than the Islanders. Are you going to suggest moving the Islanders and Devils? There’s more to “passion” than attendance. There’s on-ice success. Ownership stability. A desire to win and a fanbase that understands that desire.
Second, if you want a successful franchise, why Winnipeg? Why not go to a passionate fan base where there are many more people with a much higher income? Moving to Hamilton is a lot better than Winnipeg.
Third, are you going to convince an owner to move to an area based on passion? Say “don’t worry about losing millions of dollars because nobody can afford to go to the games” or “don’t worry about hockey failing here less than 15 years ago, these people have passion”.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
What I never understood is how putting another team in that area will bring in money. Aren’t they all Leaf fans now? Will they just drop all of that for a new team?
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by Mike B on D on Mar 15, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s a legitimate concern. But I don’t think we can discount the “1967” factor. And with ownership supposedly up for sale, now may be the time to move a team there (without opposition at the highest levels)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Well to start with I don’t know how the Devils work sometimes. I went to a few games in the Meadowland and damn was their arena empty. That is one of those models where winning and fans in attendance never made sense to me. And they did move. I know it is only to Newark, but to be fair they did move a little bit away from the clusterfuck of teams in the area. And the Islanders are something else. I don’t know if it is just bad ownership or the fact that they are too close to the Devils and the Rangers who recently have had much better teams. I honestly don’t know.
I am not saying Winnipeg is the best option for the situation. I think it would be successful, but I think it would be symbolic at worse. Why does moving to Hamilton sound better? Because there are more people or would there be an issue where there are already two team in the general area an adding another team would just saturate the market so much that the third team can’t survive?
And I’m saying you have to build the team with the community. Just because there is more people to buy kumkwat doesn’t mean those people want to buy it. Phoenix has a good team. They have a team worth coming out for. They have a team that is winning and out of 15M people they can only draw 11.7k? I know this is hockey and all, but that doesn’t sound successful to me.
They should be drawing more than what they are for the team that they have. Or you know … maybe they are not coming out because there is the aura around they team that they are leaving and why jump onto a ship that is doomed to sink? Ya know … like what happened in Winnipeg to begin with … what is that saying about the past and repeating and doom?
They should be drawing more than what they are for the team that they have. Or you know … maybe they are not coming out because there is the aura around they team that they are leaving and why jump onto a ship that is doomed to sink? Ya know … like what happened in Winnipeg to begin with … what is that saying about the past and repeating and doom?
Or… look at Chicago. Nashville. Tampa Bay. Or any number of teams who had a troubled ownership situation. If you solve the ownership, you grow a fanbase. Saying they shouldn’t have left Winnipeg is entirely different from saying they should leave Phoenix.
But it’s funny: You are advocating to repeat the past while invoking doom.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Did I say they should leave Phoenix? I didn’t mean to if I did. I kinda assume it is inevitable at this point so if they are going to move. In that case I’d move them back to Winnipeg just out of righting the injustice. They can stay in Phoenix for all I care, but I do think it does suck that Winnipeg which is a hockey market lost their team to Phoenix which is not a hockey market (at least isn’t then and isn’t now) because they have more people there.
And just in typing how a team that is a good team that has had a good team for a few years now (despite people not noticing) can draw so low and always in talk about moving. Then I realized that the Jets were in a similar situation with drawing people around the time they moved for some of those reason … kinda ironic actually.
You didn’t actually say it, but I read it in the implications (tickets in PHX v. WIN). If I shouldn’t have, my apologies.
The rest just goes back to the ownership issues I’ve been talking about. There is no relocation talk with stable and dedicated owners. If the ownership situation is bad, relocation is mentioned. Passionate fans and stable/dedicated ownership goes hand in hand; You can’t have one without the other.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The idea of an injustice in Winnipeg is what I find most out there. There were fans there, great. It’s still a terribly small market for hockey and the fact is that they can’t support it.
It wasn’t like the Minnesota North Stars leaving for Dallas, which actually was an injustice by an owner that just wanted out. There was a legit reason why the Jets left Winnipeg in the first place.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 15, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree most with Geoff’s post, but most of these post otherwise miss some basic NHL economics. Two very, very important factors are (1) stable ownership (2) Corporate sponsorship. Flyers fans are completely unaware of how those two areas – which have not been a problem for the Flyers for at least 35 years, and maybe 40 – are extremely important.
For example, Nashville has had a very stable core fan base. Their problem has been stable ownership, and a lack of corporate sponsorship. The fact that ownership is relatively stable now and that Nissan has made Nashville their corporate HQ cannot be understated. Conversely, even though Atlanta has enormous corporate sponsorship opportunities, their ownership is completely incompetent and internally hostile (to each other!)
The Winnipeg problem is two-fold. First, they must be able to get a stable owner to buy and move a team like Phoenix. I’m guessing that is do-able, but might not be a slam dunk, like the Nashville situation. But their corporate sponsorship opportunities are really in question. You would have to have “everyone pull together” for it to work, especially in their current arena. Unlike Philly or Atlanta, there are no major corporations to bankroll the enterprise. FYI, this may also be an untold part of the Coyotes problem, first because of their dubious move to Glendale, but secondly because Phoenix does not have that great a corporate base, which is now hurting in the economic malaise of the last few years.
Set your JVR in 2011.
This is true, for the most part, but I’ll add a few things.
Local broadcasting revenue is important, as well. It’s part of the reason Phoenix got a franchise in the first place: that TV market is huge. Winnipeg/Manitoba doesn’t have that. They also don’t have a huge corporate base.
What they do have is an ownership group willing to take a loss of significant amounts of money. It’s a slam dunk: the Thompson family will be involved, and they don’t have a bottom to their pockets. But due to the other factors, losses are a near certainty.
Snevik and I agree.
But note, if you agree with us, you’ll conclude that Winnipeg getting a team is NOT a slam dunk, nor is it likely to “succeed” anymore than the Southern teams, especially if the Thompsons decide that losing $$ will not be fun.
Set your JVR in 2011.
Samsies.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope that if a team goes to WInnipeg that they are successful this time around. I also really support the idea of an NHL team in Hamilton Ontario. Not so much because Hamilton is a Large City but because its local is close to Toronto and Buffalo and a hockey hotbed and Sabres and Maple Leafs fans Cross over (I.E. Maple Leafs fans go to Buffalo vs whoever games and Sabres Fans go to Toronto vs whoever games) so I think that it will cross over with Hamilton as well.
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Said this yesterday....
but Crosby looked super uncomfortable on the ice. Yes I know he’s been gone for a while, but it was like he had forgotten to skate and was simultaneously hit with a bad case of vertigo.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
A post on Pensburgh a few days ago suggested that the entire season has been tainted because of the loss of Crosby to the Pens. No one else’s injuries detaract from their teams, but it’s different when it’s Crosby. And they wonder why I refer to them as Shittsburgh?
by 92-74-99-96 on Mar 15, 2011 7:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
To be fair, losing Sidney Crosby does not compare to losing anybody else in the NHL.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to argue this point with you because its fruitless but I must let you know I threw up in my mouth while reading it.
That is all. Enjoy your day Flyers fans.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
The views expressed by FLYERBOB do not necessarily represent the views of, and should not be attributed to BSH
You don’t think the best player in the world is more important to his team than anybody else?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t realize Ovechkin was injured?
Calm down, that was a joke.
I’d say the best goalie in the world is more important to his team than anybody else.
When it comes to Crosby I just have gag reflex to the “Patron Saint of Hockey” coverage he gets. Personal thing with the city, team and fans. I’m done with my rant, move along. Nothing to see here.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
The views expressed by FLYERBOB do not necessarily represent the views of, and should not be attributed to BSH
I’d say the best goalie in the world is more important to his team than anybody else.
Disagree whole-heartedly. Not only could we argue over who the best goalie is, you can’t say that the drop off from Luongo to Schneider is that steep. Nor Miller to Enroth.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
You don’t think the best player in the world is more important to his team than anybody else?
Thats not what you said is it? Cause I sorta read it like this:
To be fair, losing Sidney Crosby does not compare to losing anybody else in the NHL.
And I whole-heartedly disagree with this, and I don’t completly hate the Pens.
Just sayin…
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
You’re saying those two box quotes don’t say the same thing? I don’t follow.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Samsies.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
The quotes do not say the same thing IMO. One refers to the team losing Crosby being important, and the other says that losing crosby does not compare to losing anyone else in the NHL, unless i’m reading it incorrectly. There’s the team, and then there’s the league.
Correct me if i am wrong for i very well may be.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just still don’t see the difference.
1) The best player in the world is more important to his team than anybody else [is to theirs].
2) Losing Sidney Crosby does not compare to losing anybody else in the NHL [because he’s the best player in the world].
Maybe that’s not what you see, maybe that’s not what it says. Maybe they still say different things. Now you have me thinking and I’m not so sure any more.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
well when you put it like that!
One could argue my point though :P
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
I’d like to hear someone argue that. haha. I’m sad you gave up.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I always give up with you. You’re far too headstrong, and i’ve become too comfortable being a passivist. I think this is our second stalemate. There will be more :P
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Of all days, today was the day to fight with me. haha. I’m not in the most argumentative mood.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Fine,
Geoff,
I think you’re an egomaniac who spends far too much time dissapropriately using your law degree to belittle the posters of this fine website.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Well that, sir, is harsh.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
ma’am*
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya know … i see a good article (… crap sorry “blog post”) here. Take every team discuss who would be the team MVP then look at how their team would be without them … find out if there is someone more important to a team …
The result would be an article examining the depth of each team.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
a pretty good one if someone puts the effort into it …
I was just thinking is Crosby such a valuable chip to the Penguins because his is Hockey Jesus or because he and Malkin make so much money together that their supporting cast don’t have the talent level to propel the team without them.
Just got me thinking:
What would the Lightning be like this year without say Stamkos … or the Canadiens withour say Price
… or the Islanders without say Alexi Yashin’s contract still on the books
… or the Oilers without say .. … …. ….. right moving on now
Just thinking it could be a neat scenario argument.
The Penguins have scored a full goal less and given up almost a half goal more per game with Crosby out of the lineup.
He can’t possibly account for all of that, but: WOW.
GVT says he contributed nearly 3 wins single-handedly to the Penguins, and would have contributed 6 over a full season. (17.6 GVT in 41 games).
That’s a pretty big contribution, even if we can’t tell how much of the 1.5 goal per game difference is him.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Right. We are getting our information from the same place, and using it to make the same point. Crosby is pretty awesome.
Which I didn’t think needed to be proven. haha.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
As long as you are grumbling at the truth. haha
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Recognizing that I am not a stat-head, but considering that Crosby amasses about 100 points in 80 games (not to mention the latitude and space he creates for the lesser lights on the Pens) that’s pretty damn close to 1.5 goals per game. What that IS saying, however, is that the loss of Crosby has NOT been compensated for by the team depth – basically, there’s a gaping hole in their lineup that hasn’t been adequately replaced.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Mar 15, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not as simple as that though. How many of his points are A2s? We just saw how much those come from luck.
Then, you have to take replacement level into account. But I think you know that (as you said the hole hasn’t been replaced).
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
How is that different?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we’re just at an interregnum in goalie history at the moment.
And I think the best in the game is Craig Anderson.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Mar 15, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
His OIG rating is through the roof.
OIG = Ogling Ice Girls
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
But can you be “the best goalie in today’s game” WHILE ogling ice girls?
I think NOT!
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
Granted, I’ve never seen you play, but as far as I know you’re not in the NHL.
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
Guhhh, I hate that I can’t disagree with this
by mantis toboggan on Mar 15, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Man, those Pens fans are all such freakin’ idiots … uh, wait …
Honestly, there are morons that post here too. But the loss of Crosby is HUGE, not even taking into consideration that he basically IS the team (apologies to Malkin and Fleury). Not sure what the actual post you read said, but the injury to Crosby HAS damn near ruined the Pens’ season. If not for the good play of Fleury and the increased defensive depth this season, they’d be up shit’s creek without a boat, let alone a paddle. Remember the Flyers teams that featured Lindros – and look at what happened to them when he was injured.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Mar 15, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember the Flyers teams that featured Lindros – and look at what happened to them when he was injured.
They went up 3-1 on the Devils in the ECF?
Haha – good catch. True enough.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Mar 15, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah a better point would be like “Remember the Flyers teams that featured Lindros – and look what happened to them when he came back”
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Mar 15, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
No, that was a fair point to make early in Lindros’ tenure. It probably wasn’t until 1996-97 that they learned to win somewhat consistently without him.
Given the season he was having in 1998-99, his absence made all the difference in that first round against Toronto. The Flyers outscored the Leafs something like 10-9 in that series and still lost. Had Lindros not had the collapsed lung the Flyers would have won it easily.
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
Don’t give up that easily!
That team replaced Lindros with Primeau.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry – occasionally I actually have work to do while I’m at work …
But you’re welcome to take up the flag, oh ye of not feeling argumentative today.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Mar 15, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That picture up top is Pronger?!? Hmmm… haha…
by 92-74-99-96 on Mar 15, 2011 7:25 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Lemme change that…
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by Ben Rothenberg on Mar 15, 2011 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha… much closer likeness. ;^)
by 92-74-99-96 on Mar 15, 2011 8:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That’s why I put it there!
Caption fail.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Unless you point it out, the fail is all yours, my friend.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Mar 15, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re wrong.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I prefer the MarioD line of old:
No.
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
I prefer this.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Mar 15, 2011 2:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Now the sky is falling, right? hahaha If you thought the panic was bad before, it’s not going to get any better from here on out with Pronger getting surgery. Like other people have said, I think this will work out just fine, rocky at time, but good overall. I hope Pronger gets better and doesn’t rush things so he’ll be well-rested for the playoffs.
Updated with a few new links.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 9:15 AM EDT reply actions
I love that this is a WHEEL OF JUSTICE option...
Danny Briere obscene gesture towards Sidney Crosby. Result: Concussion.
I was able to get one game for elbowing Crosby in the head, resulting in a concussion, but otherwise it’s a “hockey play.” Good catch!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
In light of what happened in Montréal, we are in the process of seeking to retain a safety engineer to evaluate the playing area and to see what we can do to soften it up.
Two words: moon bounce.
And can I request some explanation from Eric of what’s going on in that “defensive shell” article? I’ve gotten spoiled by his awesome explanations of stats and charts, so these don’t make any sense to me.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Moon bounce + skates = bad (source: prior experience)
make it so all the skates can only skate up and down a single rut in the ice … that way there is no contact at all … of course the right wingers and left defensemen would need extra long sticks in case the puck gets stuck in the corner.
Haha, sure.
Chart 1: In a tie game, the home team’s Fenwick % doesn’t change much late in the game, but if they have a one-goal lead then it drops dramatically. But whether it is because they take fewer shots or because their opp takes more, that remains to be seen.
Chart 2: The brown line shows that when the home team has a one-goal lead, the visiting/trailing team’s shot frequency doesn’t change late in the game. The orange line shows that the home/leading team’s shot frequency drops off dramatically. The home/leading team is going into a defensive shell and not trying many shots, and this negates the pressing of the visiting/trailing team (even though they are getting desperate, their shots don’t go up because they can’t penetrate the shell easily).
Chart 3: The orange line shows that the visiting/trailing team’s shooting percentage goes down later in the game. Put this together with the above, and you conclude that the defensive shell is doing a bit better than just negating the desperation — not only is it keeping the shots against down, but it’s keeping the shots on the outside where they’re less dangerous.
Fining teams for the action of their players sounds really good hopefully I wish my boss / company will be fined for all my traffic tickets while driving for work.
My solution
Taken from NASCAR. Teams should have points deducted any time their players are suspended. That should just about eliminate all contact from ice hockey and be a huge victory for french canadians and europeans.
The Mubarak bit was my favorite.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Mar 15, 2011 1:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The English Teacher / Editor In Me...
… wants this to be changed. I’ve emphasized the point which should be moved.
* Chris Pronger will undergo surgery today and miss 3-4 weeks: [BSH] [The700Level.com] [Frequent Flyers] [Philly Sports Daily] [CSNPhilly] [Flyers Faithful] [delcotimes.com] [Daily News] [Inquirer]
* Coming back after the flu, Jeff Carter has been playing quite well: [Daily News]
* As a result, they recalled Erik Gustafsson from the Phantoms: [PostStar.com]
Bullets two and three need to be reversed. If not, it reads as if you’re saying that Erik Gustafsson has been recalled from the Phantoms as a result of Jeff Carter playing well.
That don’t make a LICK o’sense!
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
OBVIOUSLY it is because Pronger broken hand was a result of high-fiving Carter after one of those goals he got because he is playing so well. See it is subliminal reporting.
I’ve learned something today!
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
Truth. My mistake.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 15, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
so is the 3- 4 weeks really 2-3 weeks because allot of times athletes come back early due to their conditioning and also due to the team projecting the longest worse case scenerio ?
if not 3-4 weeks is not all that bad. He will be back in time for the playoffs and we have Boynton to fill in.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson - I JUST GOT MARRIED !!!!
The only similar injury that I can think of was to Matt Bradley of the Caps. He had a broken bone in his hand earlier this season that required surgery/pin placement, and he ended up being out of the lineup for 5 weeks.
Sarauj, Latvija!
I don’t see why this would be the case, though. I fracture a metatarsel two years ago, in college. The pin procedure was never realistic for me—it heals better naturally—but I discussed it with the ortho, who did a lot of work with our varsity teams. He said, were I a D-1 football player, they do the surgery the next day and I’d be on it in within two weeks.
And that was a weight-bearing bone. Maybe we are just defining recovery differently: I can’t imagine he’d be unable to play, if it were necessary (i.e. the playoffs) in two-three weeks. But it won’t feel normal for a while.
Roenick stated last night that when he had the same injury it was an 8 week recovery.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by Mike B on D on Mar 15, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I love it when other athletes diagnose medical conditions. /rolls eyes
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
he never diagnosed it. He said he had the same injury and it took longer. That is all. He even said, he had no idea how bad Pronger’s injury was in comparison. But they talked about how long until he comes back, and that’s when it came up. It was more of a warning that 3-4 weeks may be optimistic.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by Mike B on D on Mar 15, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I just think there should be giant disclaimers flashing across the screen whenever another athlete says “I had the same thing and…”
This is a sore subject for me because of all the consternation over Utley’s condition.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
There are a lot of people in the world.I’m sure most of them cried last year at one point or another.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
While I enjoyed this response, I am saddened by the lack of attention being paid to my smartass reply to doubleh.
I saw what you did there. I just missed the opp because someone else chimed in and frankly, I’m still pissed about all the self-diagnosing.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Pissed over it? Serious? I just find it the typical pandering, controversy stirring bullshit you find in any other sport. I only mentioned it because I’ve heard others say the same thing, and his general point was on track.
I’ve checked with clinicians (doctors, nurses, therapists) and even they agree 3-4 weeks is a bit hopeful. But I also found out that there are dozens of factors that can play into recovery time.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Yes, pissed because it seems rampant in every sport these days to interview everyone but a doctor for a story—as if that would be unethical or something. Sports “journalism” is bad enough these days with the 24-hour news cycle; I’d just like some detailed reporting now and then instead of the “Breaking news” that leads to jumping to conclusions and panic within the fanbase bullshit.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Ain’t just sports ‘reporting’ that sucks … it’s all of ’em.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Mar 15, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Trust me, I know enough about medical issues to know that you let a doctor make a diagnosis. His point is still valid though, it may be a very optimistic return date.
Unless it’s a ploy to get Pronger to take a small vacation before the playoffs? /conspiracy theory
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Yes, he was. He looked a tad ridiculous, too.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
It’s the Chicago Blackhawks, man. I never did that.
The only thing more ridiculous were the Flyers fans who were mad at him for crying tears of joy that the Blackhawks won.
8 seasons with the Blackhawks, including one trip to the Stanley Cup Finals.
3 seasons with the Flyers, including one trip to the Conference Finals.
Which team is going to be nearer and dearer to his heart?
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
I wasn’t mad; it just seemed a little over the top, is all.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
It was, I laughed my ass off cause it was so over the top and ridiculous, and i think we had the right to be mad. :P
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
He established himself as a player in Chicago. Spent a good chunk of his time there, 8 seasons. As much as he said he loved Phila, that will forever be his hockey hometown.
And you think we had a right to be mad at him? If you’re going to be mad, at least make the reason worthwhile.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
So does Homer. Who would you trust more on injury issues… Someone who had the injury himsefl, or Homer?
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by Mike B on D on Mar 15, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer, actually. Roenick may have had a similar injury but not necessarily the SAME injury. He is not close to the team at all. If Homer plays it close to his vest because he’s waiting it out, so be it.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Where as Homer flat out lies about injuries. Either way, the point I made above stands.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Or he can only go on what the athlete and trainers tell him. Look: I am not absolving Homer of snafus on injuries past; however, there is a culture within the NHL where guys are told to man up and play through it from a very young age. Is it not possible Pronger said he was fine and it was nothing and tried to shake it off and play before realizing the extent of the injury?
Judgements made on incomplete information are not lies.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I’m not so sure most of it is incomplete info. I think he’s lying to cover things up, a few teams do it. Hell, all of football does it. I’m not saying he should burn in hell forever over it. And I agree that to an extent he HAS to do some of it. What I said was meant as a statement of truth, not a criticism. Aside from some bizarre cap moves, he’s done a good job by me.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
In a similar vein, does the 3-4 weeks include the week he’s already missed? Or is it 3-4 more weeks?
I think he will be back by Playoff time and be at 75%
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson - I JUST GOT MARRIED !!!!
His hand will probably only effect his shooting in the end the most important thing about Pronger is his positioning, puck movement and, intangible presence. Hope passing is okay. I can deal without his point shot frankly taking some off of it and just getting the puck on net with a Mark Howe like wrister might help the PP better than cranking up and banging the puck off the boards/glass or breaking Carters foot again.
More importantly, his elbows will be fine.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by Mike B on D on Mar 15, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude ! Mark Howe Wristers ! man I used to love those ! He was DEADLY ACCURATE with those Blue Line soft Wristers and Snapers. Why wouldnt he be ? he was a Forward converted into a D Man.
I met him and his wife around 2006 at the Philly Airport and talked to him for a good 15 minutes standing in middle of the terminal and people were not even aware of who he was. I was talking to him about his playing days, about his Father and how I read an Autobiography on his father and how great the book was and asked him about Detroit.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson - I JUST GOT MARRIED !!!!
Its going to be a good night. I can feel it in my bones!
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 15, 2011 12:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
We generally have been matching up well against Florida the last few years. Just that one game prior to the long break – we screwed up that one – but they were looking forward to the time off is what really happened.
I think we will CRUSH Florida !
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson - I JUST GOT MARRIED !!!!
They’re talking about hockey on ESPN right now. I’m so shocked!
Oh wait….
It’s about Crosby. Cancel the shock.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Mar 15, 2011 1:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Friggen Crosby ! gggggrrrrrrr..
Media Whore !
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson - I JUST GOT MARRIED !!!!
I don’t think he’s so much of a media whore as much as they want to talk to him. Not him wanting to talk to them necessarily.
I'm the Pronger. Basically? Run.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
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