What Is Happening: Flyers Expected to Sit Andreas Nodl and Nik Zherdev
Earlier today, Stephen Whyno posted a story on how the Flyers are expected to sit Andreas Nodl and Nikolay Zherdev as healthy scratches for tonight's game. Part of this is a result of the Flyers finally having everybody "healthy", or at least healthy enough to play.
Presumably, this means Coach Laviolette will roll with these lines:
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
van Riemsdyk - Giroux - Carter
Versteeg - Richards - Carcillo
Shelley - Betts - Powe
Put aside the obvious claims of "Geoff's biased" for a second and ask yourself: Is there ever an excuse to have both Jody Shelley and Dan Carcillo in the lineup when the entire team is healthy?
The most likely answer is "to give the team energy." Even if true, that doesn't address the redundancy in playing both Carcillo and Shelley. Sure, both Nodl (1 goal, 1 assist in last 18 games) and Zherdev (1 goal, 1 assist in last 15 games) have slumped recently. But scratching them both at the same time? So that Dan Carcillo and Jody Shelley can play?
If this happens, what exactly should be read into it? Is it as simple as "sitting slumping players"? Is it even as simple as "lighting a fire under Nodl and Zherdev" for when they come back in the lineup? Is it a calculated effort to bring some energy tonight? Or is it a Coach saying the slump ends now?
If you chose either option C or D, and the solution is to take two better hockey players out of the lineup for two "energy guys", maybe the attitude in the locker room was worse than we thought.
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Zherdev has been playing pretty good since being reinserted in the line up. I don’t understand why they’d sit him for Carcillo. Putting Z with Versteeg and Richards would give us 3 top line combinations. Makes no sense to me.
The only thing Zherdev does well is skate the ice into liquid and totally over handle the puck to the point where no one on the ice has a friggin clue what he is doing. He is the most useless flashy play i have ever watched. So much skill so little understanding of how to play with 4 other guys.
Just Call Me "M"!
Stupidity, at it’s finest
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 4:27 PM EST reply actions
I think this is less about favoring Shelley and Carcillo and more about motivating Nodl and Zherdev to pick up their game.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
By the way, I would guess Powe plays with Giroux/Carter, JVR with Richards/Versteeg and Carcillo with Shelley/Betts.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Not sure how Powe escapes the press box either. He hasn’t put a meaningful shift together in a month himself.
Just Call Me "M"!
So a couple of games ago when Zherdev seemed to be the only one playing, that gets ignored?
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Small Sample Size.
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
I’m only asking because there was the assertion that “Nodl hasn’t put a meaningful shift together in a month himself”, but a player who does put a meaningful shift together still gets benched? I’m only curious
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
And when you say meaningful shift for Zherdev, what the hell are you saying? Skating around like a guy with his hair on fire accomplishing absolutely nothing is not meaningful.
Just Call Me "M"!
Ah, because Carcillo skating around accomplishes more? Come on now
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure how powe escapes the box? Um are you kidding me?! Hes hands down one of the best penalty killers in the league and he brings the same high energy to every game whether hes on the score sheet or not. Putting Darrol in the argument with these others is ridiculous. Lavvy doesnt like the way Z plays, nodl gets so many damn chances and can never bury it, and carcillo and shelley have been playing really well actually for 4th line players. Im behind you 100% lavs put out the players that are working hard they will get us out of this slump.
Considering that they just had “the talk” with Zherdev after the whole waiver thing, and he’s been playing with more energy lately, I’m a bit surprised he’s sitting. What’s he supposed to think now when he gets benched again? Will he think that there’s nothing he can do to earn a place on this squad, and since he only has a 1 year contract, he just won’t give a crap anymore? I sure hope not, but I don’t really understand benching him again so soon after all that just happened with him.
Sarauj, Latvija!
I’m just going to assume that Lavy has lost control, because these moves lack any sort of sense. Mismanaging Zherdev, cont’d
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Were 0-4 since Z’s return. Maybe that has something to do with it…
by OrangeNblacK on Mar 8, 2011 5:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We’re 0-4 since beating the Islanders. Maybe that has something to do with it…
see what I did there?
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
I do see what you did there but it doesnt make much sense. Hes saying shuffle the lineup to shake things up and your saying what? Dont beat the isles? next….
I’m saying that because there’s a correlation doesn’t imply causation. Z being in the lineup isn’t the reason why the team is losing.
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
bam, high five
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t think he was single-handledly responsible for all seven goals by the Rangers? (And for the Flyers’ failure to score any?)
I like the way you think
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
To say he doesnt have anything to do with it is stupid come on man. I would much rather watch shelley powe and carcillo run a few guys into the boards than watch Zherdev 2 stride and glide all over the ice while over handling the puck. Lavy doesnt like him very much, you dont think that reflects anything to the team and linemates? Wake up bro.
then I guess we’re of differing opinions.
I’d rather watch talent than a bunch of cretins run over players while the players teammates score goals. Goonery is dead, has been dead, and will be dead for the foreseeable future
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Thats talent to you? HAHA then yes we have wayyy differing opinions. Im not asking for goonery just good hard flyers hockey and Zherdev will never be that guy, sorry.
Yeah. I’m not sure you remember, but Dan Carcillo once beat the shit out of Max Talbot, and what was the outcome of that game? Oh yeah, good hard flyers hockey died that day
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
hard flyers hockey. When are you going to get it through your head that having players like Carcillo and Shelley are a complete waste. Darrel Powe, is the future. Fighting is extinct
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, is it time for the comments to get personal already? My watch must be slow.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Eh, it doesn’t really bother me. I’ll take winning and getting beat up everyday vs being the bully on the schoolyard and losing
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
that’s cute that you resort to that type of shit when I’m confronting you with real issues and your only defense is, oh well theyre “energy players”. What is an energy player? How does one prove an energy player?
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
I’m just saying that the whole “energy players” is a myth. When teams get lucky, they appear energized. When they’re unlucky, they appear to be lethargic. This is the same team who was winning games by the boatload
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
I mean come on man were really talking about carcillo and shelley affecting how the team is playing. GIVE ME A BREAK DUDE! The struggles start with the top forwards…where has the briere line been the past few weeks? I mean i could go on with players that are struggling that are wayyy more important than carcillo or shelleys 10 mins a game, but do i need to?
This is just a period of bad luck. The first half of the season, the Flyers were overachieving, now they are underachieving. The Flyers are a very good team and will ride this out. But putting Shelley or Carcillo in the lineup won’t make a difference
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
And neither will putting nodl and Zherdev. If our top 6 forwards arent producing then the team wont be as good and the 3rd 4th line shouldnt need to be looked at for goal scoring. Thats my point.
I believe in putting your best players in the lineup. If they can’t produce and get out of the funk themselves, then what are they going to do in the playoffs? If you can’t pick up yourself in the regular season, what am I supposed to think in the post-season?
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Well whats the point of having a coach then if they just have to figure it out themselves. Your points are pretty transparent brosky.
Wow.
A coach can get a player out of a slump? That’s news to me.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Wow.
Totally misunderstand the point. No he cant “get a player out of a slump.” The coach has limits all he can do is mess with lines and maybe let some guys watch from the box.
So players figure it out by themselves by a coach putting them somewhere else?
I don’t see how that makes a player work harder or score more goals. Maybe the coach can somehow put a curse on him that makes him play better. From the press box.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
It’s hard for a coach to say “things aren’t going well now, but I’m not going to make any changes because I believe this lineup gives us the best chance to win.” If things continue to go poorly, then not only has he led them into a losing streak, but it looks like he didn’t even try to prevent it.
So you muddle with lines a little or play your 13th forward. It won’t change the chances of winning much, and it makes you (and your fans, and your owner) feel like at least you’re doing something.
I’m not a big Zherdev fan myself, but I think the point is that him playing in those four games was not the cause of the losses. He just doesn’t have that big an impact one way or another.
Though it’s interesting…
They’re 29-22 with him in the lineup and 11-3 with him out. I refuse to believe that one third-liner has that much impact, but…that’s a big discrepancy.
Now we’re all on the same page. And tonight, I think energy is going to help us more than Z’s fancy stick handling. So I don’t blame everything on Z, nor is he exempt, but I think this move will be what we need tonight.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
We’re 0-4 since having to go to overtime to beat the Islanders.
see what I did there?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
The problem goes back further than the 4 losses, that’s my point.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
No, not whatever, what? If you’ve got a theory, let’s hear it. I’m always open to suggestions.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Nodl Needs some ice time to develop – sitting him is only detrimental to his development. send him down to the Phantoms.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson - I JUST GOT MARRIED !!!!
He’s played in over 90% of the games since he first cracked the line up…
by OrangeNblacK on Mar 8, 2011 5:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Recipe for a chippy game:
Take a meaty flank of losing streak and chop into pieces; add a heavy helping of flog fresh from the Garden; sprinkle with fan and media angst; mix in an unexpected day of rest; and be sure to over-season with goon.
this is how one over manages the bull-pen and loses the game, and inevitably, their job
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
this whole losing streak has started because of constant experimentation with the lines. if something is working, leave it alone
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Z wouldn’t have seen the lineup if jvr and nodl got hurt and missed the OttawA game. Carter, jvr, and nodl have been banged up that’s why the lines have been off.
by OrangeNblacK on Mar 8, 2011 5:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So one game throws the whole team off? I’m not really buying that
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Down to 1 European player, it’s like the mid 80’s again but this time the Oilers stink.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
I am cool with this. If shelley hasn’t proved already he is useful if no where else then on the bench i am not sure your watching. The team is struggling but Nodl and Zherdev are worthless. Insert useless statistics to prove otherwise here. But it was working with these guys in the line up. They are getting back to the basics and going back to a line up that worked.
Just Call Me "M"!
by MJDII on Mar 8, 2011 4:36 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I agree with M. During 4 game losing streak the team was out work out hustled and didn’t play physical hockey. That ends here. Old time Flyers hockey North South bang bodies crash the net. No more 6 passes and trying to skate through the 3 guys at the blue line. Plus we are home and have last change.
What lineup was working exactly? Nodl hasn’t been a healthy scratch since October 25th.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
Wow he was so impressive I didn’t remember him even being in the line up that long.
Just Call Me "M"!
Your sarcasm is fantastic.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Also, the Flyers are only scoring on 5.9% of their shots over the last 25 games while Nodl is on the ice.
So how many more points would he have if his teammates were even scoring at their career averages (not even their season-to-date averages)?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t really care. Whatever lineup they had in place for the last 4 games was not exactly setting the world on fire.
If this works against a team like the Oilers, so be it.
"Darroll can't see it, blind to the eyes;
He came up in your face OOPS POWE SURPRISE!"
Man-crushin' on #36 since he hit his "absolute ceiling" as a rookie in 2008.
Needing Shelley and Carcillo to beat the Oilers isn’t a bigger problem?
Mourning Gagne forever.
by ToddtheFox on Mar 8, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
boom, roasted
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Shelly is worthless most of the time. I can see Carcillo but shelly. Why not sit Nodl and give Z a try like that. Or is it the Flyers plan to keep sitting and starting guys til they find one that clicks for the post season.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
How many “tries” does a coach “have” to give a guy? Obviously he doesnt like the way he plays, and given your a flyers fan, Im not too sure why you do?
I am not going to blindlessly follow sombody. I think Z is better than shelly. Try a game without Nodl is what my comment means. You focoused on the Try Z wording cause you have a problem with him.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
by Christopher A on Mar 8, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
The lineup I’ve been waiting for! I’d really like to punch Laviolette in the back of the head right now
This is pretty much the lineup same lineup we ran while Zherdev was benched with Versteeg being an upgrade to Nodl on Richies’ wing. Wasn’t someone around here posting a lot about that? I forget who that was.
I don’t mind Carcillo playing, but it’s the constant dressing of Jody Shelley that boggles my mind
by mantis toboggan on Mar 8, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sorry, where does Carcillo and Shelley playing over Nodl factor into Versteeg upgrading on Nodl?
It was you who said put him on the 4th line. Not the press box.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
What is Option B?
I don’t have a problem with Coach sitting Nodl and Zherdev to let them know they need to get their game going. But playing Shelley and Carcillo every night doesn’t impress me as a better plan. Worse yet, there are no Phantoms that strike me as able to contribute at this point — Wellwood, Holmstrom and Sestito aren’t exactly gamebreakers in the AHL. Hopefully, Nodl and Zherdev find their scoring touch in the press box tonight.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
From a strategist’s standpoint, I can sorta see sitting Nodl. You can give up some defensive skill in a contest with offensively-challenged Edmonton. I can also see wanting to insert Carcillo if you wanted to give your team a boost – Carcillo ALWAYS plays with energy (if not skill or restraint at times). I can also see keeping Zherdev in the lineup, because nothing can spark a hot streak like a for-real blowout, and Zherdev has the potential to ingnite on any given night.
NOT SHELLEY. Theo Peckham is out with a concussion, and Zach Stortini has been sent to the AHL. That accounts for 15 out of 45 majors (33%) for the Oilers NOT IN THE LINEUP. To me, that would argue against needing a heavyweight (even if McIntyre likes to throw ‘em). It’s like bringing an EXTRA knife to the gunfight!!!
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Shelley has been playing great lately. If you think he deserves to be on the bench than you havnt been watching games lately. Hes played with a lot of energy, hes still been used on a limited role but hes been effective on the ice and not just throwing punches. Much rather have shelley on the ice than watch Zherdev 2 stride and glide all over the ice and then over handle the puck.
To be 100% honest, I have NOT seen the last couple games – maybe I’m the jinx …
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Mar 8, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Musta been – finally got to watch the game and voila! WIN. Guess you and Huck missed it?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Mar 9, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
When you say “Shelley has been playing great lately”, you mean…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
I have to say that when Zherdev is on the ice I am holding my breath for a goal. I always have that sheepish hope that he will score. With Carcillo I hold my breath that he won’t take a penalty. I guess I wish Z would be given the extra time to click bc he could be such an ace if he started to really score. We don’t even expect goals from Carcillo or Shelley.
I do love Carcillo, but not sure he can make a difference when what we need is better defense and more scoring. If Carcillo were on the Powe Betts line as a fourth line checking forward I could see it, but I worry about putting him out on the Richards line because he does get beaten to the puck.
Wish we had Penner.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Giroux and Carter and even JVR rotating in on the Richards line. Carcillo is not going to get the 13+ ES minutes that Richards will get. He is averaging around 7:30 for the season. I expect Shelly and Carcillo to rotate some and Giroux, Carter, JVR will get more ice time which is a good thing.
In a way I think this might be the point. Keep the top 7 or top 8 forwards playing high minutes and seeing lots of ice time. I think the point has been made on here at one time that guys like Zherdev eat up time from Giroux, while we know that isn’t the case for Carcillo or Shelley.
by hebrew hammer on Mar 8, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
I liked the idea earlier today of sitting Leino to get him back on track. And Shelley/Carcillo should never happen in the same lineup unless it’s due to injuries/illness.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I like Lavy. I think he is a very good coach. But I’ll be damned if he hasn’t made me scratch my head more than once this season.
And now this? This? Really? I can’t even begin to fathom how someone could properly and correctly defend this unless they were Carbomb and Shelley’s mothers. Short of that, this is lunacy.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Again, my problem isn’t with sitting Zherdev or Nodl. My problem is sitting both of them at the same time.
And my point at the end is simply: If the Flyers need Shelley and Carcillo to give them energy – against the Oilers – well… what the fuck happens in the playoffs?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Shelley and Carcillo will give us energy and scare the likes of Stamkos, Gaborik, Dubinsky?
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
and in that Rangers win, Gaborik wasn’t even a factor. Callahan, Dubinsky, it’s a shit storm
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
This is where I am as well.
I am sorry but you don’t make a struggling team better by sitting one of your best defensive forwards and Z, at the same time to insert Carcillo and Shelley of all people. No disrespect to either of them. They both do their jobs well. The problem is that their jobs don’t win hockey games.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Clearly, you’ve never played a game of hockey in your life.
/sarcasm
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Does NHL 94 count?
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Pavel Bure was money
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Hells yes he was.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I’ve dedicated a significant amount of time to NHL 2011. Too much time
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by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Haven’t played it yet. Had to send the PS3 to Texas to get repaired/replaced…been a week and it hasn’t made it there yet, so I am a tad concerned. Once I get it back I am planning to get NHL11.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
ah, have it on 360. It’s a fun game, going to do be a pro mode soon
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 8, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Question: With Z having been waived, isn’t he only allowed X games before he has to be assigned? Are they maybe rationing those games out through the rest of the season so he doesn’t have to re-enter?
No. If he is on the roster for 30 days or plays in 10 games, he simply has to clear waivers again.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions

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