A few words on rookie NHL official Francois St. Laurent
by Travis Hughes on Apr 21, 2011 9:28 AM EDT
in Philadelphia Flyers Commentary
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You could call the February 22 game against the Phoenix Coyotes at Wells Fargo Center one of those where the 2010-11 regular season began to go south for the Philadelphia Flyers. Heading into that evening, the team was on a roll -- 15 wins in 20 games, dating back to the beginning of January. They seemed a lock for the top spot in the Eastern Conference.
But by the end of the night, an extremely frustrating loss would rear its head and the downward spiral that lingered until the final week of the season would begin. The Flyers beat the Islanders in overtime two nights later, but following that one, they'd roll off four straight losses, including that 7-0 drubbing at the hands of the New York Rangers.
In all, the Flyers would put together a record of just 8-8-6 to end the season following the Phoenix loss. So what the hell happened in that game, anyway?
Well, it's not so much a what as a who, and his name is Francois St. Laurent.
From our recap of that game on February 22:
According to the stat sheet, Kimmo Timonen took a hooking penalty in overtime tonight, and as a result, Shane Doan scored a game-winning goal as the Phoenix Coyotes topped the Philadelphia Flyers, 3-2.
Go back and watch overtime and you'll wonder where the hell that penalty came from. It was a phantom hooking call that shouldn't have been called, and it essentially robbed the Flyers of a legitimate shot to earn two points tonight.
And video of that penalty (sorry it's a bit choppy):
Of course, you've connected the dots already. That call was made by No. 38, Francois St. Laurent. Timonen didn't really comment on it after that game, saying only that he had to go back and look at it on tape. Peter Laviolette rarely speaks out about the officials, especially when it comes to a single call, but he voiced his opinion after this one.
"I didn't like it," Laviolette said. "I didn't like that one and a lot of others. We are preaching discipline and that is all we talk about is staying out of the box. We'll kill the ones we have to but with points on the line and things really valuable at this time of the year, I did not like the call. There is a lot of stick work that goes on. We were fighting around that net offensively and with 4 on 3, I again did not like the call."
Hard to disagree with him. Sure, Timonen's stick looked like it was parallel to the ice in the corner there, but that's not a hook by any stretch, especially when battling for the puck in overtime. St. Laurent made the wrong call and it cost the Flyers a point. If you want to get real about it, the Flyers lost the top spot in the Eastern Conference by a single point this season.
And that brings us to Wednesday night, where St. Laurent made another boneheaded call against the Flyers, inserting himself into the plot of the Flyers season yet again. We're obviously talking about the elbowing major handed to Mike Richards in the final seconds of the second period.
If you missed it, the video is below, but basically, Patrick Kaleta took a run at Richards along the boards. As Kris Versteeg said after the game, you never know what a guy like Kaleta is going to do out there, and Richards stuck his elbow up to protect himself.
That's not to say that he was totally right for elbowing Kaleta in the face (although admittedly, I'm not crying for the guy), but the five minute major penalty handed out by St. Laurent implies intent that clearly is debatable at best.
Laviolette was clearly livid with St. Laurent after the game (this GIF illustrates that pretty well), but he was reserved with his post-game comments. Richards, on the other hand, piped up a bit when talking with Steve Coates (video of the elbow also in this clip).
Richards:
I just tried to protect myself. Maybe a two minute, but when you make a call like that, it's kinda personal maybe. I'm not sure. Not overly thrilled about it. Put the team behind the eight-ball a little bit which is disappointing, and we had a couple of opportunities to score just out of our reach or we missed 'em. It's disappointing.
There were other things wrong in Game 4 for the Flyers, and given that they killed the 5-minute penalty in the third period, one might say it's silly to be angry about this. At the same time, though, it's hard to ignore what five extra minutes of potential attack time in that third period could have done for the orange and black. Could've meant the game. In the grand scheme of things, it could mean the series.
A call like that has implications, and in his rookie season as an NHL official, Francois St. Laurent has shown a propensity to insert himself into big time debates just like this one. These two incidents with the Flyers aren't the only examples we have of this.
Back in October, he and his partner, Wes McCauley, collaborated on a controversial call against Dustin Brown of the Kings. They alleged that Brown delivered a blindside hit to the head of Antti Miettinen, despite the fact that the video clearly shows the hit was delivered to the shoulder.
St. Laurent has a history of this stuff. Most people that screw up this much in their work get demoted or even fired from their jobs, so can we get an explanation here as to why he's officiating in the Stanley Cup Playoffs?
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It seems pretty obvious to me………………he has pictures of Buttman and Jolly Collie Campbell at the Motel 6 in Piscataway
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Apr 21, 2011 9:15 AM EDT reply actions
St. Laurent has a history of this stuff. Most people that screw up this much in their work get demoted or even fired from their jobs, so can we get an explanation here as to why he’s officiating in the Stanley Cup Playoffs?
Because that’s how dire referee recruiting is, that’s why.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
I don’t understand why he is reffing the playoffs. The league must have enough officials for at least 13-15 games on the rare occasion that all the NHL teams play on a given night. It would probably make sense that they had more so the officials get days off. I do not understand how they cannot find 8 sets of refs that do not involve a rookie official who has made several questionable calls this year. I hate to say it, but this guy was probably still bitter about being called out in the media for the Timonen penalty. If anything, can we at least get consistency? We went from one game where there were almost 20 penalties called and where every post-whistle scrum resulted in a penalty….to a game where dragging a player 5 feet across the ice by his helmet was legal.
Exactly, I thought they usually went with veterans (ie people who know what the fuck is going on in a game of hockey) for the playoffs.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
It would make sense that they would. But if it makes sense, why do it? Let’s put the ref into the series between two teams that have a history, why do we need a veteran who knows what he’s doing?
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Apr 21, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m taking this comment seriously because you didn’t use the fancy new sarcasm font
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
theres a fancy new sarcasm font? please demonstrate
by BobbyDucati on Apr 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, it's really really new. No way have people on other SBN blogs been using it forever. Not at all.
You put the @ directly in front of the first and last character in each sentence like this @.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
this is actually a great idea. would probably reduce the misunderstood responses by 40%. save a lot of trees.
you’re italian aren’t you……..damn font where is that.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
/sarcasm works pretty well.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
that one ref got injured in another game (can’t remember which one off the top of my head) so they called this ref up from the minor leagues.
What is it about Quebecois Refs?
It always seems like it’s a Quebecois ref at the center of controversy. St. Laurent also has a history of interfering with play, and was the ref that elbowed Joffrey Lupul last month. There were definitely a couple of times last night where he interfered with Flyers players via his positioning.
Ghislain Hebert was the AHL callup who screwed the Flyers out of the win against Calgary with his vendetta against Chris Pronger. Stephane Auger is a name you always cringe to hear at the beginning of a game, and has shown clear biases for and against teams and players. Clearly these scumbags have an agenda, and it shows in their biased officiating.
Flyers, Phillies, Eagles, Union, Phantoms, Wings.
I am expecting a 4 game suspension today from the league. I mean this is a perfect time to establish no tolerance for head shots.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
by MJDII on Apr 21, 2011 9:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Hey that’s great – four games? I didn’t think they ever suspended referees … oh wait.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Apr 21, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
they have had that chance time and time again and still mange to fuck it up. IE gagne getting elbowed and kunitz only getting a game. If the flyers want to make a statement sign me for one game, and I’ll gladly spear the shit out of the first ref I get near. I can fully understand and appreciate Rocket Richard punching a ref even more now. Jesus.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
1. It was a penalty for sure
2. It might not be good, but at least he has been consistent with calls for hits to the head. We complain a lot about inconsistency…it appears he is at least consistent…even though I disagree with the major.
3. I don’t like him as a ref in general, but I will say his is consistent…it’s just been consistently poor IMO.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Agreed.
Can someone explain to me or tell me for sure, if someone gets a 5 minute major for the elbow to the head it does not guarantee a suspension but it does guarantee that it will be looked at, as a possible suspension?
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I can say for sure that it’s not an automatic suspension. I think it has to be 5 and a game for it automatically be looked at
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe it is because every major is reviewable for further disciplinary action. Aside from a fighting major obviously. If I recall correctly only penalties with game misconducts called with them are guarenteed suspensions.
The Flyers are the deepest team in the NHL, the Phillies have four aces. Man is it great to be a Philly sports fan right now.
They’re guaranteed to be reviewed, not guaranteed suspensions
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Aside from that, what about the calls that he didn’t make. Because there were many.
Of Philadelphia:
I always think it's a sign of victory when they move on to the ad hominem.
And they went both ways.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
After the Richards penalty, the refs put away the whistle. That hurt the Flyers significantly more than it hurt the Sabres. We didn’t lose because of the refs, but they certainly didn’t help
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I saw the Flyers get away with a lot of hooks to help keep the play in the Sabres end. I think the whistle went away for both teams, and it showed in different ways…maybe the more physical stuff was more obvious to you…but I thought the Flyers were going to get called on for 3 hooks and 2 holds.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I find it hard to believe that the Sabres didn’t have several hooks and holds on top of the physical stuff they were pulling. Short of watching the game again and marking down every ticky-tack borderline call, it’s difficult to tell what team got the advantage in that area.
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
And only blatant one i saw was Weber one time at the blue line, but there was already a delayed penalty on the Sabres so he had penalty immunity.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
That’s the second time I’ve seen that happen in this series. The refs aren’t willing to call two penalties at a time, but they gave out 5-3s like candy in the first three games. I want consistency, but I also want them to be consistently good. Asking too much I suppose
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
If we’re talking only in the third, other than the stick work (which has seemed very bad in all series this year) Riche got tripped pretty blatantly and G got crosscheck in the back into the boards. Both easily seen and not called.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Apr 21, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with this perspective. A botched game all around, with Richards being the worst because he gave it 5. I’ve watched all of the games in every series except Game 3 ANA-NSH and the quality has been as bad I can remember. But to associate one ref with one team just encourages the tin-foilers, and in this case the Francophobe tin-foilers.
If Campbell & Co were consistent I’d be confident that, relative to the Kunitz-Gagne hit the other night, Richards would be cleared today. But as we all know it’s a mystery how they dispense punishment.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Its a four-ref rotation for each series i believe. These are the same guys that did game 2, but different from the guys that did game 1 and 3.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Game 2 was the worst reffed game of the series too. So it makes sense. Good so, tomorrow we’ll have some fairness.
The Flyers are the deepest team in the NHL, the Phillies have four aces. Man is it great to be a Philly sports fan right now.
And we also won Game 2, which weakens the conspiracy theory.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it’s just horrendous officiating
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
How is it a conspiracy theory? That game was terrible for both sides. Eightteen minors called in a playoff game.
I didn’t say they refs were anti Flyers. So don’t even try that crap. Game two they controlled the damned pace of the game and made it terribly slow.
The Flyers are the deepest team in the NHL, the Phillies have four aces. Man is it great to be a Philly sports fan right now.
i didn’t mean you. Just the general suggestions this morning re: M. St. Laurent
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Guess i was wrong
Well, that’s how they USED to do it. I guess not anymore.
Game 1:
- Kelly Sutherland
- Dennis LaRue
Game 2: - Dan O’Rourke
- Brad Meier
Game 3: - Paul Devorski
- Steve Kozari
Game 4: - Marc Joannette
- Francois StLaurent
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Oh, and to escalate your hatred of Quebec refs
All three refs (standby ref was L’couyer) are French-Canadian in game 4.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
More Sutherland, please. Assuming he’s who I think he is, I like him.
Bob.
by The Dark on Apr 21, 2011 11:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well it’s good to know that games 5 and 7 are at the WFC and have different refs, so maybe won’t be so bad for us.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Apr 21, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Don IMO that was not a “hit” to the head. Richards was standing still and Richards let him run into his elbow. He could have done it with his hands or better his stick and got 2 minutes just to same. That is a “shot” to the head.
IMO a “hit” to the head when a player delivers a check to the head as principal contact. Richards wasn’t delivering a check he was on the receiving end of one. That was certainly not score a hit for Richards but it was a scored a hit for Kaleta.
Under you interpretation anytime anyone gets the gloves your sticks up it is considered a “hit” to the head and should be considered for disciplinary action.
How many times did Carcillo get “hit” in the head in that scrum with Miller? Didn’t Veersteeg get hit in the head by Meyers when Meyers got called? JVR got punched in the head by Butler game 2 after a whistle. Every scrum there are “shots” to the head in this series gloves are getting up high after every whistle and this shot was no different other than it was an elbow and that should what it should have been called.
Also Kaleta wasn’t unaware or in a vulnerable position. Like Kunitz on Gagne.
This is playoff hockey and if you are going to make that call a 5 minute major after every whistle they should be Sabers being sent to the box for 5 minute roughing majors for “hitting” to the head.
Under you interpretation anytime anyone gets the gloves your sticks up it is considered a "hit" to the head and should be considered for disciplinary action.
Proof?
And the rule book on elbowing:
45.1 Elbowing – Elbowing shall mean the use of an extended elbow in a manner that may or may not cause injury.Interpret how you would like to. I said I thought it should be 2, not 5…but I could see how the Ref could call it 5 as he has a history of doing so with shots to the head.
Major Rule:
45.3 Major Penalty – A major penalty, at the discretion of the Referee, shall be imposed on any player who uses his elbow to foul an opponent. A major penalty must be imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent (see 45.5).
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
there was no injury at all. so that debunks the 5 min major call yet again
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Can you read the part that is pertinent. Seriously, you people are even blind to text. You are making me feel embarrassed today.
A major penalty, at the discretion of the Referee, shall be imposed on any player who uses his elbow to foul an opponent.
Then there is a 2nd portion:
A major penalty must be imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
sorry i should have noted i was refferring to the second part only. discretion is a joke. so i won’t even touch that part
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Yet it’s part of the rules. That ref has a history of calling 5’s for head shots. Richards should know better than to put himself in a position for that call. Sometimes you have to be realistic about these things.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
And again, I said I would have made it a 2 minute minor.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I agree both that the rules say it was a major and that it should have been a minor.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
These people aren’t giving me much to defend them for over at DBTB.
I’m getting it from Flyers and Sabres fans today. That’s what i get for opening my mouth.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
it’s truly a hopeless day for the rational. fight the good fight or take the day off, both honorable choices.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Then again, there was another play earlier (possibly last season) where richards used his stick to defend himself from a myers check and should have been tossed but only got two minutes for roughing (because the only thing the ref saw was myers’ helmet flying in the corner)
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
What does this have to do with anything?
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
karmic justice
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Damn. Does this also mean you’ll get a goal through the side of the net?
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of karmic justice, we can say that the door-closing sillyness is why Kaleta lost an edge and crashed into the net late in the game preventing Vanek from scoring.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
I took that as his way of asking the Flyers for a job after his contract expires.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by the way, did you hear that St. Laurent is the bastard son Ken Dryden and Leon Stickle?
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
by the way, did you hear that St. Laurent is the bastard son of Ken Dryden and Leon Stickle?
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Don can you bring up the Roughing Rules for comparison. That is my complaint all the obvious Roughing Calls which just a forceful as the elbow good clean the head / mouth that haven’t been called all game and all serious and this instance a 5 minute major got handed out for nothing.
Can you do it yourself. And I’m not trying to be rude, but I have a ton of stuff going on at work, and I keep coming back on SBN for punishment. Just google NHL rules and roughing.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Comparison
Rule 45 – Elbowing
45.1 Elbowing – Elbowing shall mean the use of an extended elbow in a manner that may or may not cause injury.
45.2 Minor Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a minor penalty, based on the degree of violence, to a player guilty of elbowing an opponent.
45.3 Major Penalty – A major penalty, at the discretion of the Referee, shall be imposed on any player who uses his elbow to foul an opponent. A major penalty must be imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent (see 45.5).
45.4 Match Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match penalty if, in his judgment, the player attempted to or deliberately injured his opponent by elbowing.
45.5 Game Misconduct Penalty – When a major penalty is imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent, a game misconduct penalty shall also be imposed.
45.6 Fines and Suspensions – When a major penalty and a game misconduct is assessed for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent, an automatic fine of one hundred dollars ($100) shall be imposed.
If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).
Rule 51 – Roughing
51.1 Roughing – Roughing is a punching motion with the hand or fist, with or without the glove on the hand, normally directed at the head or face of an opponent.
Roughing is a minor altercation that is not worthy of a major penalty to either participant. (An altercation is a situation involving two players, with at least one to be penalized).
51.2 Minor Penalty – A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player who strikes an opponent with his hand or fist.
51.3 Match Penalty – If, in the judgment of the Referee, a goalkeeper uses his blocking glove to punch an opponent in the head or face in an attempt to or to deliberately injure an opponent, a match penalty must be assessed.
51.4 Fines and Suspensions – There are no specified fines or suspensions for roughing, however, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).
Don IMO that was not a "hit" to the head. Richards was standing still and Richards let him run into his elbow.
A guy doesn’t run into an elbow unless it’s put out there with the purpose of making contact.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Here are the rules.
According to the Rules.
Rule 48 – Illegal Check to the Head
48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A lateral or blind side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and/or the principal point of contact is not permitted.
48.2 Minor Penalty – There is no provision for a minor penalty for this rule.
48.3 Major Penalty – For a violation of this rule, a major penalty shall be assessed (see 48.4).
48.4 Game Misconduct – An automatic game misconduct penalty shall be assessed whenever a major penalty is assessed under this rule.
48.5 Match Penalty – The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match penalty if, in his judgment, the player attempted to or deliberately injured his opponent with an illegal check to the head.
48.6 Fines and Suspensions – Any player who incurs a total of two (2) game misconducts under this rule, in either regular League or playoff games, shall be suspended automatically for the next game his team plays. For each subsequent game misconduct penalty the automatic suspension shall be increased by one game.
If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).
That was not a CHECK to the head. It was an elbow and therefore goes here.
5.6 Fines and Suspensions – When a major penalty and a game misconduct is assessed for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent, an automatic fine of one hundred dollars ($100) shall be imposed.
If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).
No injury no misconduct no suspension
I am not disagreeing with any of that. I disagree with the notion that a Richie did nothing wrong and that a player on the other team simply ran into Richie’s elbow. Richie put his elbow out there he intended to hit the guy.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
No, it was an elbow!
It falls under the elbowing rules…and it can be held to supplementary discipline…look at the last sentence:
If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).
Rule 28:
28.1 Supplementary Discipline – In addition to the automatic fines and suspensions imposed under these rules, the Commissioner may, at his discretion, investigate any incident that occurs in connection with any Pre-season, Exhibition, League or Playoff game and may assess additional fines and/or suspensions for any offense committed during the course of a game or any aftermath thereof by a player, goalkeeper, Trainer, Manager, Coach or non-playing Club personnel or Club executive, whether or not such offense has been penalized by the Referee.
If an investigation is requested by a Club or by the League on its own initiative, it must be initiated within twenty-four (24) hours following the completion of the game in which the incident occurred.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/local_sports/ex-ref:_nba_refs_targeted_iverson
Of Philadelphia:
I always think it's a sign of victory when they move on to the ad hominem.
http://sports.wheretobet.com/images/photos/485284e1692cb.jpg
Of Philadelphia:
I always think it's a sign of victory when they move on to the ad hominem.
Interesting background on this Ref. I suspected he was a rookie but had no idea how notorious he was. Hopefully as the rounds go on, the more experienced officials will be getting the nods. Small consolation for us right now.
"All the experts come out, all the pundits come out with their opinions...the truth of the matter is if they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it" - George McPhee, General Manager, Washington Capitals.
by Nico97 on Apr 21, 2011 10:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
It wasn’t so much the calls that he did make. I would have called Richards as well. 5 min major, definitely not, but whatever the ref still made a call. Now the last ten minutes of the game where buf did anything they wanted, that was a game changer. You can’t take 5 minutes from someone’s third, incorrectly, and then not call any more penalties on top of it. I hate acting like refs change games. I am completely one for the human factor and it’s part of the game. However, last night I think it meant way too much.
Of Philadelphia:
I always think it's a sign of victory when they move on to the ad hominem.
Consistency. Biggest problem with the refs all season long.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Apr 21, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. While some inter-game inconsistency is to be expected with different referees’, different styles, and different eyes, there needs to be intra-game consistency as well as post-game discipline consistency. Last night’s Game 4 was a perfect example of not having any intra-game consistency and Colin Campbell has never been one to have a systematic post-game discipline system. Unfortunately.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
I’m admittedly not the most knowledgeable hockey fan but watching the game last night can someone explain to me how the defenseman holding Carcillo while Miller took a shot at him got Carcillo a penalty?? And did anything get called on the Sabres for that move? That and the Richards/Kaleta elbow fiasco were the most frustrating points of the game for me…
"All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity."
Carcillo struck first, what I don’t get is they only called one player for retaliation. Even though he was being mugged at that point.
The Flyers are the deepest team in the NHL, the Phillies have four aces. Man is it great to be a Philly sports fan right now.
Miller also got a roughing penalty for that.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
That was it though. That was the ONE player I was referring to. Nothing on your defenseman.
The Flyers are the deepest team in the NHL, the Phillies have four aces. Man is it great to be a Philly sports fan right now.
Mike Weber is immune to penalties apparently.
Hilariously he lived with Steve Ott for most of his life.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Plus, it should have been five for butt-ending, not two for roughing.
Bob.
by The Dark on Apr 21, 2011 11:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That was ludicrous
First of all, according to the postgame interview that Miller gave, the ref told him that he had “already given Carcillo a penalty”.
I watched the play in slow motion a number of times. There was and should not have been any penalty given to Carcillo.
-Carcillo was a good 2-3 feet OUTSIDE the paint, when Miller stuck his stick between Carcillo’s legs and hooked at him and slashed him.
-Carcillo then got cross checked from behind into Miller, from a position he had established in front of the net. Carcillo made no effort to move forward … he was literally shoved from the position he had into Miller from behind.
-Then Miller facewashed him, as Carcillo got mugged from behind by the Buffalo D-Man.
After the play was already whistled, Carcillo skated towards Miller and got tackled from behind by the D-Man during the scrum. He never
Really… the officiating last night was horrendous, and the Flyers got the short end of the stick the entire night. The 5 minute major on Richards was an absolute joke. That is clearly a 2-minute call. The refs are there to insure fairness, and the travesty of that game, is that they did everything possible to aid the Sabres, who played like absolute scumbags through the end of the 2nd and the entire 3rd, while the refs basically put their whistles in their pockets and allowed the worst return to the clutch and grab 90’s I’ve seen in any series this year. Sure I’ve seen other teams jobbed on a play or 2 in a game, but I can’t remember a one-goal differential game where a team got the shaft the way the Flyers did.
The silver lining for me, is that the Sabres looked exhausted and shell shocked. I simply don’t believe Ryan Miller can put up 2 more games like that this series.
how about miller punching car bomb in the face, then the sabers defensemen punching him in the back of the head then hog tying him and throwing him to the ice. and carcillo gets called for roughing when he didn’t even throw a punch
The refs will claim it was because Carcillo had cross-checked miller a couple seconds earlier but they didn’t call it originally.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
and Carcillo was in high form last night with the acting and clowning and I think that makes refs less likely to give him the benefit of the doubt when they have to interpret a situation.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
That way I saw it, Weber didn’t get a penalty because the moment he (Weber) put his arms around Carcillo he (Carcillo) went down like a piece of paper to attempt to draw another call.
A call which Carcillo and many other players would never get without falling. The refs are so bad all over I watched two guys get tackled, literally, in the Rangers game in OT. One was trying to shoot the puck at the time.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Apr 21, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it wishful thinking to hope Shelley comes off the bench Friday, however briefly, just to send a message…?
"All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity."
I would hate to see Carter or Z sit in favor of Shelly. That said, it is almost needed. Maybe the Banana Slugs are asking for it.
Who do you have in the black aces for forward besides Shelley?
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
They could always put Rinaldo in… *waiting for backlash*
"All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity."
by PhantomsPhan on Apr 21, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
BACKLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Apr 21, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously? People really want to see Shelley in?
WTF people. If Shelley gets in, who would he even fight on the Sabres? Honestly, tell me? Holy hell this is ridiculous.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
So your best option is Denis Hamel i assume?
Wow. I’m so spoiled with the pirates as a farm team.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
after further research...
Or apparently Ben Holmstrom.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Or Wellwood the Slimmer.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Apr 21, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It doesn’t help that you guys basically didn’t call up any forwards this season.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
We stayed pretty healthy, for a change.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Apr 21, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
We got the worst christmas present ever this year
Derek Roy – out forever
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Nah, ours is a twig.
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Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Apr 21, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The official numbers are hilariously close; Eric listed at 5’11 180, while Kyle is listed at 5’10 181. Of course, official numbers also try to claim Briere is 5’10, so…
Although before looking that up, I never knew Kyle Wellwood and I had the same birthday. Random.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 21, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. Very few players with my birthday. Two current guys (Shane Sims and Tim Kennedy, who combined for 7 NHL games this season), and I have the same birth date as Aaron Johnson.
Bob.
Yeah, I should have actually said birth ‘date’; I was so surprised when I noticed it because the year matched, as well.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 22, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s the rule on additional call-ups? Are they completely verboten now? This seems like a case for … TOM SESTITO the Red-Hot Tostito!
Oh, and why does the Flyers website still list Maroon as one of the “In the System” players?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Apr 21, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you. I wish some of our other players would step up and say enough. Or even Lavy dropping some words to the media. Anything!
The Sabers would knock off the stupid stuff if we beat them to pucks in the corners, moved our feet more, hussled like the series was tied, crash the net, stop taking shots from the blue lines, finished our checks, etc.
I would take some energy and hussle over gooning any day. Let’s win this series and move on!
Wishful thinking? No
Idiotic thinking? Most definitely.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I was waiting for a response along these lines… what can I say, I’d like to see a little bit of gooning but I understand the counter-argument against playing Shelley
"All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity."
by PhantomsPhan on Apr 21, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
But you can’t goon when he has no one to fight. So even the gooning argument, which I am against anyway, falls flat on its face.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Add to that the fact that the team has been shutout twice in 4 games doesn’t exactly scream for the team to dress one of it’s least offensively skilled forwards just so he can play 6 minutes and maybe fight someone.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
well I’d like to see him take a shot at Kaleta… that’s just my personal preference… but again, I get the drawbacks to playing him – I’m not arguing that we’d benefit from his offensive skills
"All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity."
by PhantomsPhan on Apr 21, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Then wait till next season for that and to play into Kaleta’s type of game. Want to hurt Kaleta in the playoffs? Make sure he’s golfing in a week.
The Flyers are the deepest team in the NHL, the Phillies have four aces. Man is it great to be a Philly sports fan right now.
fair point.
"All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity."
by PhantomsPhan on Apr 21, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Trust me, after his actions this series I would enjoy him getting a taste of his own medicine.
But it would play into what he wants and would only give us more penalties to kill.
The Flyers are the deepest team in the NHL, the Phillies have four aces. Man is it great to be a Philly sports fan right now.
But that gets you an instigator and requires Shelley to skate around the ice out of position. Kaleta won’t fight him. So you have Shelley committing a potentially suspendable act. Kind of ridiculous.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
so what if he gets suspended, he’s worthless in the playoffs right? so have him earn that $1.1 or whatever million he’s making on his contract and do something. bring back the 70’s jump the bench and fight the whole team.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
I am really hoping you are kidding.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I am and I’m not. I know it’s a dumb idea but I would love to see it happen. I think I hate the Sabers more than the Pens now. What a bunch of dirtballs.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Whoa whoa, let’s not lose our heads here
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
As well you should. The Pens are FAR worse.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Awesome logic.
You realize not one Sabre would drop the gloves with him, they would just skate away right?
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
well here’s the logic, kaleta won’t be doing anything with a broken face. so i think it would accomplish that. at the very least.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Because going after Kaleta when he won’t want to fight Shelley definitely won’t do anything to fire up the Sabres bench. See 2009 playoffs, Flyers vs Penguins, Game 6.
The best way to demoralize the Sabres and beat them is putting pucks past Ryan Miller. Lots of them.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Traffic in front of the net. Bull-rush on occasion and don’t be afraid to take an interference penalty or two. Keep shooting, and keep the puck moving. Oh, and give Carcillo some extra time out there. Why the hell not?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Funny, I don’t see the words “let Shelley take a shot at Kaleta” anywhere in your game plan.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
He isn’t necessary. If the Flyers keep doing what they’re doing, they’ll be fine. They just have to get in Miller’s face a little more, like they did in Game 2.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I agree. I was merely poking fun at all the suggestions around here that we put Shelley in to “take care” of a few things.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Kaleta would never, never, never drop the gloves with Shelley. What he would do is give Shelley a butt-end in the kindey and then spit on him when Shelley turns around. Then when Shelley drops the gloves and grabs him, Kaleta would turtle and slam his own face into the ice to get his nose bleeding.
2, 2, 5, 10 and a game for Shelley, and a victory for Kaleta as his team gets a nine-minute PP.
Anyway, the Sabres were a dangerous draw, but the Flyers came within a whisker of going up 3 – 1 and have home ice back. This is a pretty good position for PHI. Just say no to Shelley.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Wah? McCormick? He had what, 16 majors this past season? I bet he’d be willing to dance.
That said, he ain’t no heavyweight so Carcillo (or SOD, or Hartnell, or Boynton, or my mom) could pop him one without calling up Girlyname.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Apr 21, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Buffalo isn’t going to back down or change their game if Shelley is on the ice. So it ends up diverting our energy from the task of getting that one or two goals by Miller & Co if they are on their A-game. Can’t afford the distraction.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
The Flyers don’t need Shelley to send the Sabres a message.
Pronger will do it too and a 10% Pronger is still better than Sheley.
The Sabres would think twice before doing something stupid with Prongs on the ice.Even the refs would let the Flyers get a little more physical and get away with some plays with Pronger on the ice.The whole game would change with Pronger on the ice
UNLEASH HIM!!!!!!
Clockwork Orange 10/11
I believe they will...here's my proof
Chris Pronger out practicing at full speed. Cleared black ace out of the crease. Bartulis skating in yellow injury jersey.
Ryan Bright (Philly Sports Daily)’s twitter feed
The Flyers are the deepest team in the NHL, the Phillies have four aces. Man is it great to be a Philly sports fan right now.
If Timonen really does get suspended, i’m sure Pronger will be in because even with one arm he has to be better than your #9 defenseman.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Why would Timonen get suspended? For the end of the game scrum that both teams were involved in?
The Flyers are the deepest team in the NHL, the Phillies have four aces. Man is it great to be a Philly sports fan right now.
For spearing Gerbe in the balls.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
I still don’t think anyone in Philly has seen that clip. Can you link it because I’d link to see it in general.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I looked and couldn’t find it and i asked PPPers and they couldn’t find it either but apparently it was on TSN2 so it’ll make youtube eventually i assume.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Yeah, that’s what I would assume. I’m just getting a little antsy to see it.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
And if PPPers can’t find it, its not on the internet.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Sabres need officials to win.
Sabres fans need Leafs fans to help suspend a Flyer.
I see a pattern developing.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
The sabres don’t need officials to win, but it certainly helps.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
You don’t win last night w/o them.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
Flyers might not have won game 2 w/o them.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
10 Sabres penalties in 30 minutes of clock time?
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Were they warranted penalty calls or phantom calls?
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
As i didn't watch it, these were considered to be phantom calls
16:45 BUF Tyler Myers: Interference — 2 min
29:22 BUF Paul Gaustad: Holding the stick — 2 min
35:39 BUF Patrick Kaleta: Roughing — 2 min
The last one was the worst by far.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
As i didn’t watch it
So people told you they were phantom calls? Other Sabres fans?
Paaaah-lease.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
There were some phantom calls that game, the Kaleta one definitely should not have been called.
The point is, there were missed calls, and bad calls both ways, and if you want to say that the Sabres won last night because of the refs then the same can be said for the Flyers and game 2, unless one is biased and unwilling to see it.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
by EREX21 on Apr 21, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this. The “refs hate the Flyers” story is getting close to 40 years old and time for retirement. Bitching about it in the heat of defeat is one thing but now it’s time to look ahead and focus on the next game and get some goals. It’s unfortunate enough that we have a shitty crop of refs in general. Thinking that they hate orange and black doesn’t help.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
If I’d been a ref in the ’70s I would have secretly loved the Bullies. They would have given me the most challenging games and made me by far the most important guy on the ice.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Because that 5 minute power play totally helped the Sabres? That powerplay very nearly lost them the game.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Covering the puck in the crease?
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
He broke no rule on that play. It wasn’t a penalty shot
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Covering a puck w/your hand in the crease?
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
It was neither covered with his hand (his hands were busy tackling versteeg) nor was it in the crease.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Yes it helped them a lot because the Flyers dominated the entire third period but they had to spend the first 5 minutes killing off that BS penalty. Had they had another 5 minutes at even strength who knows what would have happened. They were trying to make up a 1-0 deficit and they essentially had to do so in a 15 minute period.
That would be like a Baseball team trying to make up a 1 run deficit in the 9th inning with the umpire declaring that the team with the lead only had to get two outs to end the inning
I contend the Flyers dominated the whole third period BECAUSE they had to kill off that BS penalty.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
that doesn’t make any sense…no matter how you spin it your at an immediate disadvantage when your trying to tie the game and 5 minutes are essentially shaved off the last period
Peter, you showed your displeasure right at the end by slamming the bench door—
I was just closing it.
Rofl.
When JVR was grabbed by Montodor on that early rush after JVR blew past him on the outside and nothing was called I knew this was going to be a long game.
Still not going to blame the officials for this Miller was unbeatable and got really lucky with the bouncing puck and some fortunate blocks when he was out of position.
Dirtiest play that went un-noticed was when the Saber Kaleta no less opened the door to the bench to let Zherdev fall in during a scrum along the boards.. That is a big hockey no no. A should be suspended here is amazing slow motion video of the incident. Z could have seriously gotten hurt.
OMFG BLOOD PRESSURE BACK TO END OF 2nd PERIOD LEVELS!!!!!!!!!!
If it wasn’t Patrick Kaleta, I’d assume he didn’t realize there was a flyer there because that’s what you’re supposed to do before you move down the bench.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
I figured that was what really happened when I saw the replay last night, but damn, that video even catches his hand reaching forward to open the door. Smoking gun, indeed. Unfortunately, nobody will care.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
in other news,
No idea on the quality because i can’t view it from this computer.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
copied the wrong link, but close enough.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
That is old stick between the legs move that is wake up call and a no no. But not a spear.
Same video shows the Saber slashing Hartnell I think across the chest at the top of the circles before it goes to the Kimmo Gerbe stuff.
you made me laugh.
Coffee is a wake-up call. Getting a stick between your legs is cause for an immediate physical and moral inventory.
It’s a spear to Sabres fans.
For Flyers fans it’s like petting the cat.
So really it’s somewhere between.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
And you thought this might be suspendable? Are you kidding?
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Spearing carries an automatic suspension.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
In fairness, though, Gerbe is totally a kabobable size.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Apr 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gerbe has ovaries.
I’m trying to be reasonable elsewhere in this thread so I thought something inflammatory would be helpful just for balance.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it doesn’t. Read Rule 62.6
Bob.
by The Dark on Apr 21, 2011 12:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A) That wasn’t a spear
B) No it doesn’t
C) Where is everyone getting this automatic suspension nonsense?
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Automatic Game Misconduct for a 5 min Spearing Major.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
And the fact that Colin Campbell suspends basically every time a spearing penalty is called.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
But that wasn’t called, nor should it have been.
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Was he called for a 5 minute spearing major?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
And Lanci is right. Here are the penalties at the end of the game.
20:00 Philadelphia Kimmo Timonen – 2 minutes for Slashing
20:00 Philadelphia Mike Richards – 2 minutes for Roughing
20:00 Buffalo Nathan Gerbe – 2 minutes for Cross checking
20:00 Buffalo Tyler Myers – 2 minutes for Roughing
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Since Timonen was called for a slash on that play, can it be reviewed as a “spear?” I’d think not.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Colin Campbell is allowed to call his own penalties. He’ll likely sweep it under the rug, but he’s extremely strict on stick-related infractions so there’s a chance that he’ll hand out some supplementary discipline.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Colin Campbell is allowed to call his own penalties.
Where in the rule book / CBA is that stated?
there’s a chance that he’ll hand out some supplementary discipline.
It was called a slash, which is what it was. A hybrid slash-hook in a bad location. People have gotten away with much worse in just about every playoff year since the NHL came into existence.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
keep in mind that i have not seen it.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
“Swipe it under the rug.” There is nothing to be swept
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
No I was clarifying the rule for people.
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Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
People shouldn’t be getting it from that.
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the link. I’m sorry you have to put up with so much shit for just providing me with something you asked for.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I still haven’t seen it :/
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
It’s definitely not a spear though…it almost looked like Kimmo used his stick to hook him and pull him in closer…for what reason I have no idea…but it wasn’t a stick to the balls so much as a stick to the upper thigh that Kimmo then ran up a bit…cheap, absolutely, but not a spear and not something worthy of a suspension.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
It’s not terrible…he puts his stick through the legs to where his blade is in Gerbie’s ass crack, then proceeds to yank. It wasn’t particularly violent, but definitely dirty.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
colie campbell is pretty strict with stick-as-a-weapon infractions though so i’d remain worried about a suspension.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
I am. I am also very anti stick as a weapon. One of the reasons Briere drives me nuts and I enver wanted the Flyers to sign him.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
It still amazes me that attempted spearing is a 4 minute penalty.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
I’d be more amazed if a Ref caught an attempted spear.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I’ll take that if it means leading the league in playoff points since 2006, which he does
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
and we are, after all, the greatest lawless franchise in North American sports (the Raiders and Davis were competitors but have traded that for a kind of dementia vibe). Stickwork is part of the tradition.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m good using that $6.5 mil per year through 2015 with a NMC on someone I like. But that’s personal preference. I just never liked Briere.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Fair enough. I didn’t really notice all the stick crap until we got him, but I was excited enough about the signing (although I admit I wanted Gomez) to get his jersey, making me an avid Briere defender. Plus, you gotta love that fist pump
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t notice it until 06-07 but man he has a habit of dirty stick play.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Oh most definitely. And it is infuriating
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he kinda has too. Players take runs at him all game long, he’s a wussy french midget. Do I think it’s right? nah but I understand that aspect of it. Besides what hockey player isn’t dirty with their stick? Pronger? HA. Briere doesn’t slash people in the face. Just dirty little whacks. No big deal nothing to see here type stuff.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
I’m a defender of the contract at the time given the market place. I just see him as expendable when you have 3 other hi profile centers on the team. He is also my fiancee’s favorite Flyer…so I usually keep my mouth shut about him to maintain the peace ;).
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Exactly. And I’m sure he was pissed because Gerbe checked him right as the buzzer sounded.
Definitely not a spear, just a little cheap shot.
I personally liked Gerbe trying to bull rush timonen past the blue line to finish out the game.
I liked it more when he did it to Subban and then scored though.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Everything is funnier when done to Subban though.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
You best not even try – apparently it’s the one place it’s available .. which means its completely flooded with viewers and is currently unavailable.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Apr 21, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Do keep in mind that the video is at half speed, but correct, no spearing, the point of the stick didn’t make contact. I suspect a fine will be in order (and if there were justice in the world one for Kaleta too)
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Thanks for the link! The quality of the video is perfectly fine. As mentioned before, CSN never showed this so while we had heard about this, we never actually saw it to comment on it before this video got posted.
Timonen’s stick certainly makes contact with body parts between the legs of Gerbe, though it is not a “spear” in the layman’s terms of taking a stick, making it parallel to the ice, and ramming it into the guy’s man parts. He lifted it, probably with intention of making contact for whatever reason (maybe to bring him forward to engage him in contact), and connected. As far as motivation, Gerbe seemed to drive Timonen back after he had passed the puck into the Sabres zone. From that point they go off the screen and the replay only shows them in a position they were not yet in after they disappeared from the screen at the exact moment Timonen lifts his stick between Gerbe’s legs, so it is unclear exactly what, if anything else, happened between the two before the moment of the infraction.
I have given up guessing what Colin Campbell will and will not suspend.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
timonen over reaction
Timonen had just been subject to late hit, he used his stick to pull the scumbag toward him. Buffalo got away with far worse throughout the game.
Flyers, Phillies, Eagles, Union, Phantoms, Wings.
i thought of it as a mating ritual. after the game, how about.., etc etc.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously, with all the things we can point to about the terrible officiating, it’s kind of sad that that’s the one little thing they’re hanging their hat on. In a game filled with dirty cheapshots by the sabres, this one doesn’t even make the top 10.
Flyers, Phillies, Eagles, Union, Phantoms, Wings.
i’m just happy that everyone really hates everyone else right now. Took four games to get there.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I don’t like it when series get to this point. Yes, there’s some entertainment value in it, but I like games to be about the actual hockey.
All the jawing to the media (I’m looking at you, Miller) and all this other sideshow shit doesn’t mean jack for the scoreboard.
I just hope the Flyers outlast these mofos. I’ve never wanted to win a series more in history, aside from the SCFs.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
For what Miller had to put up with this year from the media, I actually loved that.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
yeah, i liked it too. on one hand you want him to stay above it because in the end you can’t win against the guys with the pens and cameras. but it’s good to have players call them out every once in awhile.
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not privvy to what he’s endured in Buffalo, so if they want to relay his pressers back to Philly, then they need context. Otherwise, it just makes him look like he’s whining. All the other stuff—Carcillo whining about them taking liberties with him—I feel similarly about. I don’t want to hear it.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
That’s fine, I’m offering up my view point of his presser given what I was familiar with this year. The media in Buffalo torched his play this year b/c they are, like most media, ignorant of what is imporetant when evaluating players.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
They’re angry that his S% is only slightly above league average.
What a travesty! /eyeroll
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Yeah .924 ESS%…how pedestrian. I want Raycroft Calder year numbers or nothing I say!!!
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
They should totally play enroth even though his save% is 10 points lower because he’s 7-2-2 on the season!!!1
/mumblegrumble
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
They are apparently unaware of the GT that was in net for the Blackhawks cup run last year. Good defense and timely scoring has more to do with winning in the playoffs.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
In defense of Miller, he had people locally calling for his head after Games 2 and 3, especially after Game 3. We’ve seen some Flyers chirp the media in similar fashions, so this does not bug me at all
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
I respect Miller, I just think he has creepy eyes.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
OMG YES!
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
One thing i learned recently: in 1995-96 three of the top 5 players in PIMs were Sabres
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Ray, May and ??
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Apr 21, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ray (4th), May(5th), and former member of 36 in blue Matthew Barnaby(1st)
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Oh, yeah, forgot Barney was there at that point.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Apr 21, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct me if I’m wrong please, but wasn’t that Kunitz blatant elbow to Gags just a two minute penalty? And this is five? WTF?
At 1:45, everyone has calmed down.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
My subconscious wouldn’t even let me calm down while I was sleeping last night.
I had a dream I was back together with my ex-fiancee. That would be horrendous on so many levels.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I haven’t seen or spoken to her since 2005, and I aim to keep it that way. She pops up in my dreams every now and again.
I wish I had more dreams like the one I had earlier this week, where Nick Cave was writing / singing “Weird” Al Yankovic-esque songs for a children’s show. The one song I remember was “Bees Swingin’” which was at once upbeat, happy, and very creepy. I woke up laughing, which is always nice.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
hmm. Cave, Yankovic and Ryan Miller would be very sympa as a string trio
by flyersfaninchicago on Apr 21, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate those times when you get a whiff of someone wearing the same perfume an ex used to wear. HORRIBLE.
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Broad Street Hockey - Covering the Philadelphia Flyers. Two goalies*, One Cup.
by Travis Hughes on Apr 21, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t. I’m just staying away for the most part.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Even so, I would say this is an improvement over your threatening God with a “Don’t make me come up there” last night.
I calmed down after a while last night, especially after seeing how the Rangers-Capitals game ended. I thought, “At least I’m not Marian Gaborik right now.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
One of my friends, a Rangers fan, quit his Rangers fandom last night and said he was now going to root for the Red Wings. He’s such a frontrunner.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
How very Pengoons of him.
Thhrrrpth!
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Apr 21, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Well the vocalization (or posterization?) of all the unhappiness has stopped for the moment.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Can only write the same thing so many times. Plus, my creative juices were flowing last night when I was semi-drunk and really, really mad. I’m tired now and have nothing left to give.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
That was fun to watch/read, btw.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Apr 21, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
So has anyone heard anything about Richie? I haven’t even heard that there was a phone call or meeting set up with the league?
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I’m starting to think there won’t be
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure some of you have seen the comments Lindy Ruff and Ryan Miller made about Philly players/fans calling out the refs, couple of douche nozzles right there
Danny Fist-Pump Strikes Again!!!
by MeszarosKillsPeople on Apr 21, 2011 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
That’s where i found it, the video is in the side bar on the right where it says "No Holds Barred"
Lindy Ruff said we were bitching, Miller said Richards was trying to cover up his own dirty play or whatever by talking about the refs. Bunch of bullshit.
Danny Fist-Pump Strikes Again!!!
by MeszarosKillsPeople on Apr 21, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh, who cares. Reverse the roles, it’s all the same. People talk. You defend the people in the orange and bitch about the people in the blue…they do the same, just reverse the colors.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
That’s where i found it, the video is in the side bar on the right where it says “No Holds Barred”
Lindy Ruff said we were bitching, Miller said Richards was trying to cover up his own dirty play or whatever by talking about the refs. Bunch of bullshit.
Danny Fist-Pump Strikes Again!!!
by MeszarosKillsPeople on Apr 21, 2011 2:53 PM EDT reply actions
Fuck, i messed up and posted it twice.
Danny Fist-Pump Strikes Again!!!
by MeszarosKillsPeople on Apr 21, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It happens. There’s a term used to describe it around here. Someone will be along shortly to inform you as to what it’s called.
Carter Out, Pronger back
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Carter is a big loss. Too bad.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
It is. Now he’ll never get rid of that “he sucks in the playoffs” albatross.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
If he wants to get rid of that “he sucks in the playoffs” albatross then he needs to actually do something in the playoffs.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
There’s a little confirmation bias in there, though, man. He wasn’t actually playing that badly to date.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
He had a few good chances in the first two games that Miller made really good saves on. They go in we’re singing a different tune
by mantis toboggan on Apr 21, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he didn’t do much in the 3.5 games he played so far this playoffs but I wouldn’t even hold that against him but before that…21 points in 45 games?
Ville Leino had as many points in the 19 games of last year’s playoffs alone.
It’s not about confirmation bias, it’s that Carter, for whatever reason doesn’t seem to be producing on the score sheet at least, in the playoffs.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Who is producing right now?
Carter has 2 pts only forward with more is Claude with 3. And is 1 G is second on the team only to Danny B with 2 G.
So it all depends how you look at Flyers Loss Second Leading Playoff Scorer or Carter Continues to Suck in the Playoffs.
For all the JVR praise which I agree with he only has 1 pt this series.
Well he didn’t do much in the 3.5 games he played so far this playoffs but I wouldn’t even hold that against him
Which means I am completely ignoring what he has done this post season, especially since it was 3.5 games, but looking at his whole post season career it’s not very good.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Game 1: +5 Corsi
Game 2: +3 Corsi
Game 3: + 8 Corsi
Game 4: -6 Corsi
Game 3: +8 ES Scoring Chances
Game 4: Even on ES Scoring Chances.
Granted these are line stats…but I would say he has worked well with his line and been a positive player in 3.5 games.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Which is great, and it shows that his line is at least taking the puck to the net and generating scoring chances but at the end of the day, he isn’t producing. You can’t really argue that. I’m not saying he isn’t trying but effort only takes you so far.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
The Flyers have 3 players with 3 points, carter is 1 of 5 with 2 points. What exactly do you want him to have? If he isn’t producing, I don’t think you can say anyone is.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Which is why I have repeatedly said I am not holding him accountable for this year’s playoffs and keep pointing to his overall career playoff numbers.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Well he can’t do anything about his past…and saying something like this:
If he wants to get rid of that "he sucks in the playoffs" albatross then he needs to actually do something in the playoffs.is unfair now that he’s been injured. I thought watching him in the 1st 3 games that if this was a long run, he might actually get that label off of his back. But that was just my opinion of his play. Regardless, I just thought your statement was a little unfair given his number in 3.5 games this year before injury…and the fact that it was only 3.5 games.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I agree, he can’t do anything about his past and if he was able to have a playoff run where he averaged a point a game, or even somewhere close to that then I would have no issue saying that his disappearing act in the playoffs is a thing of the past.
I agree, it is unfair to hold that “he sucks in the playoffs” thing against him now that he is injured, which is exactly why I am not doing that, as well as the fact that he has only played 3.5 games so far.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
So to that end, I am not really sure what you disagree with me about.
All I said is that if he wants to get passed the issue of not being able to get it done in the playoffs then he needs to get it done in the playoffs. And I pointed out that to date, he hasn’t produced, that isn’t my opinion, it’s a fact. I didn’t say that he needed to do something right now, or in this years playoffs but that in general if he wants to get passed the “issue” he needs to do something about it.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Ok, then I am still misinterpreting your first statement.
It’s not a disagreement, it’s that I find it an unfair statement given that you know he is injured, and that he had been doing well before he got injured.
Sorry, but I’ve reread all your posts 6 times now, and it still doesn’t sit well with me.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
It referring to your initial statement.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Well I can’t really control how your interpreting my statement.
I don’t disagree that prior to his injury he looked like he was more comfortable(my word) and was poised to possibly produce at a decent clip.
All I was saying was that going forward he needs to produce if he wants to distance himself from the can’t produce in the playoffs problem. Going forward means whenever he steps onto the ice he needs to start producing. Clearly I can’t hold it against him if he is injured.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I realize that, hence why I said that it’s just something that as it reads (to me), doesn’t sit well with me given the circumstance. I don’t disagree that at some point in the future he does have to produce in some manner to get rid of that label.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
High Five?
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Yeah, let’s talk about Pronger. What’s he done lately? He’s been a non-factor on the ice in this series. Very disappointing.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Down hintzy…this has been beaten to death thanks to my extra sensitive state today.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
To play devil’s advocate, Carter isn’t getting enough fault on that goal last night. Your center can’t hang outside the zone just because the play looks like it’s getting out of the zone.
Your center is G.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
That’s a good read in terms of capturing how much the emotions have ratcheted up over the last couple of games.
Sarauj, Latvija!
Ruff makes me laugh. Have the Flyers been complaining too much? Yep. But to say they haven’t said boo to anyone is complete BS. He and Miller haven’t stopped yapping since this series began. Puh-lease.
It’s all mindgames and sideshow.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
*Lindy is pissed that his daughter got eiffel-towered by some frat guys at Temple U that night
Danny Fist-Pump Strikes Again!!!
by MeszarosKillsPeople on Apr 21, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
NHL reaction?
Did Richards have a phone conference today? Is it good news that we’ve heard nothing more about it yet? If they don’t respond today, is it over? I mean, can we assume there won’t be a suspension?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugzW5S_CY7E
@ 7 secs, pretty clear penalty. At very best you could call it debatable, and that’s in slo-mo.
Sorry for it looking like ass, the YT conversion killed it.
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