Thursday Morning Fly By: Put On Your Lappy Face
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Say hello to your playoff starter, Sergei Bobrovsky: [BSH] [Philly Sports Daily] [Flyer Files] [Frequent Flyers]
- Say hello to your playoff suit, Michael Leighton: [BSH] [Flyers Faithful] [Flyer Files] [CSNPhilly] [Philly Sports Daily] [The700Level.com] [Inquirer] [delcotimes.com]
- He spoke with reporters on a conference call, and here are the stories from that: [CSNPhilly] [Philly Sports Daily]
- And the transcript of the call: [Philly Sports Daily]
- The Phantoms beat Albany 4-1 last night, with Michael Ryan getting a hat trick. Recap: [PostStar.com] Post-Game: [PostStar.com] In-Game: [PostStar.com]
- Ian Laperriere was named the Flyers nominee for the Masterton Trophy: [BSH] [In the Room] [Flyers Faithful] [CSNPhilly]
- Danny Briere returned to the ice yesterday: [Philly Sports Daily]
- Jakub Kovar stopped 18 of 19 shots in his National Team debut, being named player of the game: [euroflyers]
- Yes, this is only a description, not actually in the story, but... really, Tim? "It's not sluggish skating, the power play or goaltending that's thwarting Kimmo Timonen and the Flyers ... it's a lack of passion. And in order to succeed, they must recapture it." I'm pretty sure the Power Play, the Briere line, the absence of Pronger, and a few other things are "thwarting the Flyers". [CSNPhilly]
- Phantoms notes, including the team signing a goalie to an amateur tryout: [PostStar.com]
- Asking writers if the Flyers will have another breakout star in this year's playoffs, and who: [Flyers Faithful]
- Greg Moore sent a great image to Mike Testwuide, one of Stefan Legein fake-drinking out of the Time Warner Cup: [MrBalloonHands]
- Kudos, Marty Turco. Making a bet (or three, depending on the story) with a fan during the Montreal game? Awesome: [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy] [Deadspin]
- Here's video of a vicious two-handed slash to the head in Montreal: [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy]
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I admit it, I was shaking my head at the CSNPhilly article. By now we’ve all analyzed the recent struggles more than any reporter has, and probably identified the contributing factors and solutions more than any reporter has. What can they possibly tell us that we haven’t seen, discussed, and or solved?
by 92-74-99-96 on Apr 7, 2011 6:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Pannacio’s concern trolling is definitely starting to get on my nerves. They’ll either be fine or they won’t. I realize it’s his job to write a story every day, but at least stick to things that are actually going wrong, and not nebulous, unquantifiable woes.
“[Player/Team X] lacks [Attribute Y] and that’s a big problem” is a standby for guys looking to fill column inches.
Next up, “Lack of Leadership A Real Concern”.
The MSM is nothing if not predictable.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
You can almost set your watch by the arrival of standard, analytical, “insightful” observations from reporters.
by 92-74-99-96 on Apr 7, 2011 9:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
all so true. Tim’s crap is really pissing me off. He had a tweet yesterday along the lines of “all Flyers say the same that they’ll be fine in the playoffs..based on the last 2 games I don’t think that can be true.” Like, really? Who the hell is he rooting for/what would you rather hear them say? “It’s not looking good Tim, consider us done.” ????
Dick.
I’m not even sure what thwarting means but I agree that what is wrong with the team is completely intangible. They are skating, passing, shooting, playing their system and trying, but there is just something missing. It’s indescribable. Maybe it is the scientific equation of the ratio of the matrix of luck.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
An intangible named Pronger? How about an intangible name “Power Play”?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 8:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As far as Pronger is concerned, yes he makes a difference in talent, but this team is plenty talented enough to compete night after night and maybe even compete for a cup without him. Also it doesn’t bode well that a group of highly skilled, well payed professionals can’t win without a 35 year old defensemen. What is this group, signed for the next decade, going to do next year or the year after when he is completely broken down and not contributing at all. In another year or two he will be Rathje on this capped roster.
The power play is just one of several parts that aren’t getting results. This team 5 on 5 against the Senators should score no less then 4 goals. Something is not there. They go on the power play and pass the puck around establish puck control but they just don’t score. I am starting to think there is way more to this coefficient to equatable ratio of luck thing.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Just remember, in 2 years he becomes a $525k salary and a $6.5M cap hit, A team like nashville, on their budget struggling to get to the cap floor, would LOVE his 35+ contract…ESPECIALLY if he retires.
Defending Carter until 2021...
Hidden in the midst of the rants and counter-rants was Pardini’s original assumption that front-ended contracts with large cap hits will be attractive to teams like, uh, Nashville.
Hmm…didn’t someone else post on this earlier? :-))
Set your JVR in 2011.
As far as Pronger is concerned, yes he makes a difference in talent, but this team is plenty talented enough to compete night after night and maybe even compete for a cup without him.
But they aren’t. We’ve seen it this year.
Also it doesn’t bode well that a group of highly skilled, well payed professionals can’t win without a 35 year old defensemen. What is this group, signed for the next decade, going to do next year or the year after when he is completely broken down and not contributing at all. In another year or two he will be Rathje on this capped roster.
A future first ballot Hall of Famer is not just a “35 year old defenseman”.
This team 5 on 5 against the Senators should score no less then 4 goals.
As long as you realize this is hyperbole, we can just move right along.
They go on the power play and pass the puck around establish puck control but they just don’t score. I am starting to think there is way more to this coefficient to equatable ratio of luck thing.
Wait til you see Eric’s post going up at 10. There’s a lot wrong with the power play.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
As far as Pronger is concerned, yes he makes a difference in talent, but this team is plenty talented enough to compete night after night and maybe even compete for a cup without him.
But they aren’t. We’ve seen it this year.
But they should be, right? They won a lot of games early in the season without him didn’t they?
A future first ballot Hall of Famer is not just a "35 year old defenseman".
He is one of the greats, yes. Is he in his prime still, no. So It’s shameful that without him they are completely incapable of competing? It’s friggin unacceptable and it shouldn’t be. Him coming back is not going to be the difference in winning and losing in the playoffs. The core of this team especially the offense needs to get there swerve back.
As long as you realize this is hyperbole, we can just move right along.
But I am not exaggerating. If your are better you need to be better. The “better” teams in this league with way worse roster problems then one 35 year old defensemen seem to establish that they are the better team. (I threw that last one in there again for fun.)
Wait til you see Eric’s post going up at 10. There’s a lot wrong with the power play
I hope it’s not a bunch of stats, because stats are redundant in that they measure results not solve issues. They don’t go into a PP with the plan of failing, which I can see without stats the day after. I hope he breaks down the couple obvious problems like net pressure and passing/shooting decisions.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
But they should be, right? They won a lot of games early in the season without him didn’t they?
When? He missed two(?) games at the beginning of the year, and like eight(?) in the middle of the year. And they played like crap during that large chunk in the middle of the year.
So It’s shameful that without him they are completely incapable of competing? It’s friggin unacceptable and it shouldn’t be. Him coming back is not going to be the difference in winning and losing in the playoffs. The core of this team especially the offense needs to get there swerve back.
Shameful is tough. Should they be playing better without him? Certainly. But the team played immensely better as soon as he rejoined the lineup in the middle of the season. He is obviously a difference maker, and if he wasn’t, you can’t justify trading three first-round picks for him.
But I am not exaggerating.
The Flyers lead the league in 5-on-5 goals per 60 minutes, and yet they still only score 2.225 goals per game at 5-on-5. Ottawa is third-worst in 5-on-5 goals per 60 minutes, and yet they still only allow 2.215 goals per game at 5-on-5. Expecting “4 goals at even-strength” is ridiculous.
The "better" teams in this league with way worse roster problems then one 35 year old defensemen seem to establish that they are the better team.
What about teams without their #1 defenseman, #1 penalty killer, and #1 center? I’m thinkin’ maybe that’s a bit of a problem. Is it an excuse? No. They stopped playing two minutes early in the second, and it cost them.
because stats are redundant in that they measure results not solve issues.
How do you solve issues if you don’t know what the problem is?
which I can see without stats the day after.
Then answer me this: How good/bad has the Flyers power play been this year?
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not reading it you pain in the ass!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Keep those blinds closed, M. :)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
When? He missed two(?) games at the beginning of the year, and like eight(?) in the middle of the year. And they played like crap during that large chunk in the middle of the year.
Pronger has missed 30 games this season. Not ten(like)
Shameful is tough.
If you don’t find the last month or more shameful then I am not sure of your passion.
The Flyers lead the league in 5-on-5 goals per 60 minutes,
Don’t dazzle me with your per 60 minutes stuff. They are four goals during regulation better then the Ottawa Senators, PERIOD! It shameful.
How do you solve issues if you don’t know what the problem is?
a guys scoring per 60 minutes doesn’t tell the story of him refusing to finish checks in the offense corners to create puck possession and scoring chances. It just doesn’t say what the problem is. I think it hides the real on ice problems.
Then answer me this: How good/bad has the Flyers power play been this year?
The stats say 15th or so in the league. But when you are tied in the 3rd with 3 minutes to go and you fail to convert that one opportunity and lose the game all the stats from the large sample size mean diddly squat.
Like Lionel Richie mutha fucka, I am here all night long baby! :-)
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
But they should be, right? They won a lot of games early in the season without him didn’t they?
He missed 14 games in the middle of the season, and the Flyers went 9-4.
If you don’t find the last month or more shameful then I am not sure of your passion.
Yup, I got no heart.
Don’t dazzle me with your per 60 minutes stuff. They are four goals during regulation better then the Ottawa Senators, PERIOD! It shameful.
2.2 goals per game at 5-on-5 v. four. You’re either wrong or trying to be funny.
a guys scoring per 60 minutes doesn’t tell the story of him refusing to finish checks in the offense corners to create puck possession and scoring chances.
Never said it did. But if a guy refuses to create puck possession and scoring chances, I’m pretty sure it would show up in his Corsi and/or scoring chances. Which you also ignore because they’re “fancy” and “hide the real on ice problems”. Like puck possession and scoring chances.
The stats say 15th or so in the league. But when you are tied in the 3rd with 3 minutes to go and you fail to convert that one opportunity and lose the game all the stats from the large sample size mean diddly squat.
The guy who hates stats tells me about stats? I’m asking you, sir “Stats lie!” to tell me how good the Flyers power play is. Not “how clutch is it” or “what is their success rate compared to the rest of the league.” How good is it.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
He missed 14 games in the middle of the season, and the Flyers went 9-4.
So evidence he is not the only reason they win.
Yup, I got no heart.
Not saying that at all, but not being mad about what is going on is strange.
2.2 goals per game at 5-on-5 v. four. You’re either wrong or trying to be funny.
This is just my point I don’t care what the averages tell me over the entire season at 5v5. The Flyers should be able to score 4 friggin goals against a B team. There are highs and lows that make up the averages well I am asking for the high against an inferior team the week before the playoffs. Shameful!
I’m pretty sure it would show up in his Corsi
They are results over time that don’t suggest a solution.
The guy who hates stats tells me about stats? I’m asking you, sir "Stats lie!" to tell me how good the Flyers power play is. Not "how clutch is it" or "what is their success rate compared to the rest of the league." How good is it
I don’t know stats so I went and looked that up. And all that matters in life is clutch. There power is not getting results when needed. I watch the games they are going through the motions of playing adequately. So there must be something intangible that is not allowing success.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
So evidence he is not the only reason they win.
I never said he was. But he’s clearly a huge part of this team, and the team does not play well at all when he is not in the lineup.
Not saying that at all, but not being mad about what is going on is strange.
Why get mad? We all know I have no emotions, so I wasn’t ecstatic in December and I’m not mad in April.
This is just my point I don’t care what the averages tell me over the entire season at 5v5. The Flyers should be able to score 4 friggin goals against a B team. There are highs and lows that make up the averages well I am asking for the high against an inferior team the week before the playoffs. Shameful!
You’re expecting one team to double their effectiveness (from already league-leading numbers) while expecting the other team to double their shittiness (from already league-bottom numbers) just because they have injuries. While ignoring the injuries on the other side. Even the Phantoms beat the Flyers last year.
They are results over time that don’t suggest a solution.
Results don’t suggest a solution? If you aren’t outshooting your opposition, the solution is: Find somebody who will. Bench Ville Leino. Give Matt Carle more ice time. Drop Kris Versteeg’s ice time. Use the Betts line more effectively. Those are solutions. Based on the Corsi scores.
And all that matters in life is clutch. There power is not getting results when needed. I watch the games they are going through the motions of playing adequately. So there must be something intangible that is not allowing success.
I thought all that mattered in life was winning? And why won’t you answer “how good has the Flyers power play been”? Simple question.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I never said he was. But he’s clearly a huge part of this team, and the team does not play well at all when he is not in the lineup.
9-4 ain’t chopped liver. Overall during the 30 games what is the record? I don’t know how to look this up.
Why get mad? We all know I have no emotions, so I wasn’t ecstatic in December and I’m not mad in April.
I am even keeled for the most part but I care how the Flyers are doing and I get frustrated and mad when they do poorly.
You’re expecting one team to double their effectiveness (from already league-leading numbers) while expecting the other team to double their shittiness (from already league-bottom numbers) just because they have injuries. While ignoring the injuries on the other side. Even the Phantoms beat the Flyers last year.
I can’t even decipher this?? They have put up quite a few 4 spots this year, right. I wanted at least a four spot against and inferior team. The 2.25 did not come against the same team.
Results don’t suggest a solution? If you aren’t outshooting your opposition, the solution is: Find somebody who will.
This is like saying we are losing find someone who will win. If Ville or anyone else for that matter is not playing well implement a way for him to improve, put him in different situations. If ville hasn’t scored in five games I don’t need advanced stats to tell me that. Figure out how to change it. Maybe he is really not feeling good and stats wont account for the fact his hip is killing him and he is sucking it up.
thought all that mattered in life was winning? And why won’t you answer "how good has the Flyers power play been"? Simple question.
All that matters in life isn’t winning it is honesty and integrity. That is why I feel it is embarrassing to see a guy turtle for a PP to win the game. And in my opinion the PP sucks.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
So many
block quotes.
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by Travis Hughes on Apr 7, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I know. I’m having MarioD flashbacks.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
9-4 ain’t chopped liver. Overall during the 30 games what is the record? I don’t know how to look this up.

Even with the Flyers “winning” during that 13 game stretch, your eyes surely told you they weren’t playing well.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Showing you how well the Flyers do with Chris Pronger out of the lineup.
You don’t need to know what it is, you need to know that the grey boxes – with the arrows going sharply down – is when Pronger is out of the lineup. And you need to know downward trends are bad.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Shit, it’s gonna take me forever to get through these 300+ comments at this rate…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Wait til you see Eric’s post going up at 10.
Still waiting. Apparently it got moved back to noon, though.
Eh, understandable
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
If it’s only an ATO for Rondeau, can he return to Yale next season or is his collegiate career over?
His collegiate career is over. He’s played four years at Yale anyway, but once you play in a pro game, regardless of contract, you lose your NCAA eligibility.
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by Travis Hughes on Apr 7, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
" I’m pretty sure the Power Play, the Briere line, the absence of Pronger, and a few other things are “thwarting the Flyers”.
Oh how I wish you would have finished this sentence with ‘as well’.
I read the article. It isin’t terrible, and he acutally has a point. Well Kimmo, and Lavy have a point because he used quotes and numbers as his entire article mostly. There was barely any opinions at all. Its early though, I could have read it wrong.
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SUPER 8 BITCHES
I believe you. Its’ just that when i went to “clip” the article for inclusion here, that paragraph popped up. At that point, i didn’t read past the first few paragraphs.
So I tried to clarify the story may have a point, but that description is terrible.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 8:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My favorite comment from the CSN garbage on passion:
But you forgot the biggest stat of them all BOBBY CLARKE HAD AND CONTINUES TOO HAVE MORE HEARTHoly hell that was a hilarious way to start my morning.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
hahaha
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by Travis Hughes on Apr 7, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
For the year end player grades, I expect to see a new stat column this year…Heart Size.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I’ll see about getting a cardiologist on payroll.
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by Travis Hughes on Apr 7, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I was about to make a Kalinski joke, but it doesn’t quite work.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Apr 7, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Did the style of writing remind you of anyone? How about the name then?
Mourning Gagne forever.
by ToddtheFox on Apr 7, 2011 9:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You can’t possibly be implying that FlyerRay is indeed FlyerRob, can you?!?
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Not the same person, but cousins or something
Mourning Gagne forever.
by ToddtheFox on Apr 7, 2011 10:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
FlyerRob just showed up on TGP last night…I give him less than a month before he gets banned. Although, they don’t really ban people so much as shame you into leaving.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I don’t think Rob can be shamed…he has his own reality in his mind.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
which is kinda why I like him but in small doses. He blogs like someone who’s just done coke for the first time.
Cocaine is a helluva drug.
That’s best description of him I think I’ve ever seen.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
He thinks Travis and the masthead banned him because he was a born-again Christian.
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Keep Hope Alive
Grammar fail
He is a born again Christian. Not was. FLYERROB has not disappeared from this earth.
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Keep Hope Alive
Is that actually true?
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Yes.
My only wish is that PPP would not have deleted the thread so that we could read all of the responses and the rest of his amazing drivel.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
Sweet sassy molassy
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Darnit I want to read it…did you read it? Have a summary of PPP’s responses.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Unfortunately I did not read it. I just did the search of “FLYERROB banned” search on PPP to see if he complained to PPP about it, and sure enough, those were the results that came up. Absolutely unbelievable.
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Keep Hope Alive
HAHAHHAHAHAHA That made my afternoon.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Don saying “Sweet sassy molassy” made your afternoon?
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
Cause I can picture him and because it’s so fucking random…yeah.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he’s a born again Christian? WTF?
Pretty sure Geoff worships the devil and Travis lets him stick around.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Isn’t that the point? We worship the devil, therefore he’s not welcome.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I just figured he thought we were anti Christian more so than Pro Satan. But I’m good with either version.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
haha, oh. That makes sense too.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I want to see those comments now. His religious beliefs are the last reason why he didn’t mesh with this group. And as for clique like HS, everyone here had to post a first comment and interact with the group before they became part of the site. He was just a step off the norm or something. I am sure he is a hell of a nice guy.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I can kind of see how it could be considered cliquey, but it’s only because some of us have known each other for years. I like to think we’re fairly welcoming.
Mourning Gagne forever.
I have seen very few times other then the obvious trolls making trouble where someone wasn’t welcomed openly around here. Hell my first day on the site I was temporarily banned for going after MarioD. And I only said he was a wet blanket snuffing out everyone’s fun. Travis slapped me on the wrist and the rest is history.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I think he felt distinctly on the outside of a clique. But I think that’s less because we’re cliquey and more because…well…he tended to be wrong a lot and end up with several “clique members” arguing with him.
And he interjected a lot of off base comments. Because someone didn’t agree with his evaluation of a hockey player or play he would start telling you about Iraq. That to me is a little uncomfortable in a sports forum. Like talking religion or politics in a bar.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I went out of my way to be nice to home before the end…until someone pointed me to the PPP fanpost he put up over the Gagne thing.
Actually I think that me being really nice to someone might be the kiss of death around here…I was really nice to bestbostonsports before she got banned. Since she’s been back, I’ve been both rude and short with her…and she has stuck around.
And you guys want to complain about me being an asshole when, in fact, I’m doing you all a favor.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Meaning, by me being an asshole to all of you is helping to keep you all around. When I start being nice to you, it’s time to worry.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Although, they don’t really ban people so much as shame you into leaving.
Except dannijd. They are just downright horrible to her and she just would yield. I love it.
Yeah I do feel kind of bad for her, she takes a beating every day.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
When she first started coming around I thought she was like a psychologist or sociologist researching social dymanics of the intrawebs and was posing as a n00b. I didn’t how else to explain why someone would put up with that much shit. Then again it is the intrawebs, you don’t have to pay attention to or care about people’s criticism of you.
I do, too, but she sort of asks for it by posting constantly. I don’t think TP or FM have to be so curt with her, but she could cut down a tad on posting and I think they’d pull back some…maybe.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
was he banned from here? i havent really seen him around lately, but i havent been around much either so i was not sure
"I'm not going to get into a he-said she-said with the refs....I'm the "he"" - Chris Pronger
According to Travis, yes he was banned.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
oh. well then i guess im behind on the times. i remember something about he called geoff a slave owner or something ,and then something about hitler…but i dunno if that was the reason
"I'm not going to get into a he-said she-said with the refs....I'm the "he"" - Chris Pronger
That is ridiculous to say but why is the idea of heart such a ridiculous concept. Is it the statistician in most of you that doesn’t see the sport as being played by humans who when inspired for one reason or another decide the end result of games? I mean these games are actually played, they aren’t created in a lab with a computer. The Flyers go out night after night and do, for the most part, what they are expected to do and coached to do as every team in the league is. But one team wins and one loses based more on some intangible then actual skill or talent. I mean look at the Pens who are probably going to win the division now without two of the most dynamic players in the game on the bench. They are winning with third line guys and minor leaguers. Yes they are playing a defensive style which matches the skill level, but really all the trap is in the end is the willingness of the defender to relentlessly pressure the puck. The intestinal fortitude is what makes it successful not as much the concept or the x’s and o’s. That is why a more talented team with better skaters lose to the trap.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
All games in all sports are clearly test tube babies…to ignore the existence of championship predictions based on EA Sports franchise simulations is ridiculous…they have those things for a reason. We can probably just stop playing the games, and run computer simulated match ups for all results from now on. I mean clearly that’s what I’d prefer.
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Look at the Blues last night, losing to the Blackhawks on a goal that probably wasn’t.
Damn Blues and their lack of heart!
The intestinal fortitude is what makes it successful not as much the concept or the x’s and o’s. That is why a more talented team with better skaters lose to the trap.
Do they use their jedi mind trick heart to stop the more talented team, or did they employ an effective strategy to defeat their opposition’s strengths.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Updated with a few new links.
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Holy the hell, that two hander over the helmet was ridiculous. What a punk.
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Yeah. My friend posted that on facebook yesterday. Crazy horrible. What’s worse is it doesn’t look like he gets his ass kicked for it, which he absolutely should.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, talk about using your hockey stick as a sword, yeesh.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 7, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Lavy on 610 WIP this morning
Anyone else catch this? I only heard the ending and from what I gather it sounds like Leighton will likely start against the Islanders (which isn’t surprising), but what he said about the playoffs was interesting. He committed to Bob and Boosh being the goalie tandem, but he said they would be the ones to “start” the playoffs, clearly leaving the door open to switch that up depending on the results they bring. Also, Lavy apparently talked about how he feels they’ve fixed the problems, but I didn’t catch that part. Anyone hear what he said about that?
Sarauj, Latvija!
The fixing part is easy, apparently all you needed to do to fix all that ails the Flyers is insert either a cardboard cut out or the actual body of Chris Pronger. This teams inability to push themselves to finish is the presence of Pronger.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
While I don’t think things like heart and passion are the be all end all of sports, I do find it interesting that people seem to downplay it as much as they do simply because it can’t be quantified.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
This.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I do find it interesting that people seem to downplay it as much as they do simply because it can’t be quantified.
I find it more interesting that just because you are interested in quantified stats, that people assume you don’t believe in things like effort and commitment.
/Looking at M.
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It’s not that I am saying stat guys don’t believe they just seem to down play the intangibles as nonsense. Maybe not you as much, but some around here actually quantify the probability of luck but say heart is poppycock. Trust me I saw this going in the direction it was going back in February based on intangibles that I can not quantify. I was labeled a bridge jumper because the stats were saying otherwise and it was a matter of bad luck.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Maybe not you as much, but some around here actually quantify the probability of luck but say heart is poppycock.
Eh, most people lump “heart” in with luck.
How many people will say Jeff Carter doesn’t have “heart”, but Lappy does? People will say Lappy has more “heart” than Betts, but who played better last year? What did his “heart” get him? What does Carter’s lack of “heart” get him? Better yet, what the hell is “heart”?
Yes, I fully expect a Justice Stewart “I know it when I see it” answer, which is why I downplay it.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
How many people will say Jeff Carter doesn’t have "heart", but Lappy does? People will say Lappy has more "heart" than Betts, but who played better last year? What did his "heart" get him? What does Carter’s lack of "heart" get him? Better yet, what the hell is "heart"?
\
I totally get your question about what is heart and I understand what you mean, but my simple answer and it may be completely wrong but heart, passion, commitment, effort, alot of which are the same thing(to me),are things that guys who lay it out all on the line like Lappy exhibit game by game. They get a career out of it where as they might not have that career based on skill level alone. No one can argue that Lappy is a better hockey player or more talented then Jeff Carter, he isn’t, not even close. But because he plays the way he does which comes mostly from what I would consider heart, and his commitment to the team concept and doing whatever it takes to win, that is why he still has a job.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I’m not saying this is the case…but let me just pose a hypothetical.
Suppose Carter had always played like Lappy growing up. But because he was so skilled, his coach told him to never do that stuff again, you are too valuable to the team to put yourself in those situations that risk injury. Carter obeys his coach for the good of the team…
Does that mean Carter has less heart?
To be they both involve commitment, which is all I care about. Heart is such a BS word. The heart is a muscle in your body that keeps you alive.
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.
Heart is such a BS word. The heart is a muscle in your body that keeps you alive.
Don’t tell that to this guy.

Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
You are absolutely right, and that may very well have been the case. Actually I had a coach tell me to stop playing so physical because I was skilled but not very big so playing physical although helpful to the team wasn’t me as I am not a very big person and more times then not, playing physical resulted in more pain for me than my opponent, so your hypothetical is very real.
I agree that heart may be a BS word but what other word would you use? From one of your other comments, I do agree that you have to have heart and passion to play this game, or any sport at the pro level but I do thing there is a big difference between a guy who shys away from contact when the opportunity is there or doesn’t go balls to the wall on the defensive end.
Could be because they are doing what they are told, but because we don’t know that it is perceived as a lack of effort, or a lack of heart.
I am not calling any specific player out, I used Lappy and Carter because they were both mentioned before in prior comments. I won’t call players out for lack of effort because I am not there, I don’t know where their head or heart is, but I do think you can watch a game and see what looks like a lack of heart very clearly just by the way some guys play.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
My problem is that guys are arbitrarily labeled as ones with “heart” and guys who lack “heart” based on… personal preferences.
We can all agree that Dan Carcillo has more energy than Blair Betts, but does that mean he has more heart? Does Sean O`Donnell not have heart? It’s a word people use to criticize or praise guys they like or don’t like.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen it done growing up when I played youth hockey…that’s why I brought it up, just as a hypothetical so people can consider that for once. I didn’t want to call anyone else out either, just stuck with your example.
And when I say heart is a BS word, I mean for me. I understand that other people use it, but I usually try to get them to define that for me before we have a discussion about it. Chances are they are tailoring their definition to fit their POV. But to be honest, the same can be said for the words effort and commitment when applied to pro athletes…they are often manipulated the same way heart is…I just don’t like the word heart because I find it more of a high praise/cruel insult type of word that I prefer to stay away from.
Hope that made sense.
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I agree with both Geoff and you, heart, commitment, effort, hustle, drive, determination, the list goes on and on. All words that could be used to raise someone up or rip them down. They are arbitrary words that more times then not thrown around based on opinion. I guess that is really the issue with it, and why it is overlooked as much as it is, because it can’t be quantified it is left up to individual bias and that’s never good.
That being said, I do think the concept of heart, determination, effort, whatever, is very real, I just don’t know how you can really every prove it out than the eye test and even that is left upto bias and lacking all of the information needed to form a fair and just opinion.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I believe in things like effort, commitment, and emotion. I also believe that emotion can be the biggest road block to commitment.
I just don’t like to use words like heart and passion. It’s a personal preference.
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I just don’t like to use words like heart and passion. It’s a personal preference.
Or because you lack heart and passion?
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Definitely true. I’m really a poorly engineered robot.
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You’re better engineered than Geoff. At least you have an empathy chip.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d much rather use commitment than effort, and much prefer effort over emotion.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Well I know you have no emotions. When I say emotion, I say in the sense that in a game, you play on this scale with emotions on one side and “smarts” on the other. It’s a balancing act. Hence why I think emotion can be the biggest road block to commitment.
But enough philosophizing.
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Don’t cross the Vicki Mendoza Diagonal!
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
So if a player got a boob job, they are back on the good side of the diagonal?
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Haha. I only made the reference because I knew you’d get it.
Now I can’t stop picturing Riley Cote with big knockers.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
But to answer your question: I still think, regardless of what his coaches tell him, there’s time where he needs to lay it all out on the line and play to his size. I don’t see him doing that a lot.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes doing that can be counter productive. Sometimes you have to commit to the game plan, and that game plan may go against what you perceive to be laying it on the line.
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I understand that. But what makes Lappy have more heart than Powe or Betts? They all have similar roles, but one fights.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
You are comparing two guys who have completely different expectations as players on a team. I say Carter doesn’t have heart because he gets face washed and man-handled in front of the net and pulls off finishing every check he doesn’t feel like making. But he gets results in the point column based on his skill. If he had more heart he would be one of the greatest players in the history of the game. Lappy isn’t going to give you the point results you are looking for to quantify, but he made a long career in the NhL doing what only someone with heart can do. It takes heart to prevent a scoring opportunity with your friggin face.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
If he had more heart he would be one of the greatest players in the history of the game.
hahahaha, really?
Lappy isn’t going to give you the point results you are looking for to quantify, but he made a long career in the NhL doing what only someone with heart can do. It takes heart to prevent a scoring opportunity with your friggin face.
So Lappy has a USA-sized heart, Darroll Powe has a Wyoming-sized heart, and Jon Kalinski has a Connecticut-sized heart?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Kalinski can fly so it has to be more like California. It is not a comparable stat. Heart is when the rubber meets the road are you going to give what ever it takes to be successful. Carter scores goals, most of which are when they arent needed, Lappy puts his face in front of a puck to stop scoring chances at crucial times.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Well, then it’s a good thing the Flyers drafted Garrett Klotz. Dude’s got heart out his fists.
Shame they also have Erik Gustafsson. Kid just doesn’t have it.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Now you are mocking heart as a function of guts and willingness to fight. That is not the case at all. If Gus never makes the team it won’t be due to his skill level which is not in question so it must be something else. Call it what you want heart or passion.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Give me a list of players with “heart” and a list of players without “heart”.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
On the Flyers?
Heart: Richards, Giroux, Betts, Carcillo, Nodl, Shelley, Hartnell (50%), Timonen, Meszaros, SOD, Coburn, DSOD, Bartulis
No Heart: Carter, JVR, Zherdev, Carle, Hartnell (50%), Leino (rock stars don’t need hearts), Pronger (obvy), Versteeg (too micu dipsy doodle)
Goaltenders are heart-independent.
Wow that was good. I think Hatnell has heart. He never shys away from a play. Falling down doesn’t count.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
See?! You can’t even agree!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I always like how role players are always automatically put in the heart category.
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Well they obviously didn’t make it on skills as a mainstay. The only reason why Lappy can be on the same ice as Carter is his intangible sometimes known as heart. He can’t skate with him he can’t out stick handle him and he can’t out skill him but he can refuse to quit and push on him until he either shows more intangible or gets off the ice. After 14 years the latter has happened more often.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
So the role players have a commitment to their role. Just like the more skilled players have a commitment to theirs?
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Commitment =/= Heart. Heart involves many characteristics, like “just loves playing the game” and “really having fun out there” and “giving 110%” and “mucking it up.”
Brett Favre has heart. Because he’s like a kid hitting on those massage therapists.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually higher skilled players tend to lay back and only do what they are proficient at instead of working on their entire game. It’s not commitment that makes Carter score more he is just better at it by nature.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Jeff Carter does nothing but score. Yup. He doesn’t play defense, he isn’t a two-way forward, he doesn’t have heart.
Nope. All he does is score two goals when the Flyers are up 8-2.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Ever consider it a commitment to the way the coach wants to use the player?
And Carter has excelled this year being put in much harder (defensively responsible roles) positions. But yeah, it;’s just from his gifts. Not commitment or effort or anything else.
From someone who played the game M, you aren’t considering the coaches role in this at all, and it shocks me.
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Oh I have but like Jim Mora once said. He doesn’t send them out there to lose. It is more about execution then the game plan. And personally I don’t want to start the coach killing but I feel Lavi went to the whip to early and to often this season and these mules are whipped into not responding right now. Hope he gets it back but we will know by december of next year.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I think you aren’t getting my point.
1. Carter has been put in very tough situations, has had to be defensively responsible, and has excelled this year.
2. The coach wants Carter to play the type of game that makes him most effective. Maybe that type of game doesn’t give you a warm fuzzy feeling about his drive/commitment/effort/heart…but maybe he is doing exactly what he is told to do/used to do.
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Pulling away from an offensive zone check or letting the wrister go while the other forwards are standing there like idiots can’t be what Lavi wants.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
You should start tracking that stuff, because then we can quantify what you are saying. Until then, I’m going to respond with…
Selective perception!!!
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How do you have “half-heart”? I thought we were over this.
And Nodl clearly doesn’t have heart since he sucks.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Now I’m going to have that theme in my head all day….and I’ll love it!
My text message sound is opening a chest in Link to the Past.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Pronger has no heart? Or he’s heartless?
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Those are synonyms.
And Pronger had a voluntary artificial heart transplant, just to be able to say he’s a cyborg.
No, what I’m asking is whether he plays with “no heart” or he’s just a heartless person. Since we refer to him as Captain Elbows, I lean more toward the latter.
And since he’s really a cyborg, then it’s all moot. Except for, Sarah Connors is now scared… BOOYAH!
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
I have yet to make a non-sarcastic post at BSH today. You can make whatever you want out of that list.
For the most part I see “heart” as pass/fail. There’s no need to decide who has the Texas-sized heart. You either play with it or you don’t. Trying to quantify an intangible is about as smart as trying to separate fly shit from pepper.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
So heart is like wins/losses? You either have it or you don’t. So it’s completely arbitrary, with guys like Bobby Clarke mingling with Blair Betts.
Maybe that’s why I hate it.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
To me. You don’t have to like any of this but you do have to recognize it as a valid opinion/way of seeing things.
Some players have IT (whatever you want to call IT) and some don’t.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess I view the work required to get to this level as having IT…hence why I don’t question IT.
If you want to break IT down on a nightly basis, than that’s different, but in general, IMO, they all have IT to have made it this far.
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You don’t have to like any of this but you do have to recognize it as a valid opinion/way of seeing things.
You know I’m a dick, so I’m going to say this: If I don’t think it’s valid (like how I don’t think wins/losses are a valid metric of a goalie’s performance), why do I have to recognize it as valid?
I’m with Don on the you can break it down on a nightly basis, but blanket “Jeff Carter doesn’t have heart” statements are too arbitrary to be deemed significant or informative.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You have to recognize it as a valid way for OTHER PEOPLE to look at it. Just because I don’t care to look at GVT QUALCOMP or Corsi doesn’t mean you’re wrong for doing it. Just like you don’t see heart as a meaningful way of qualifying anything doesn’t me I or poster formerly known as M or anyone else is wrong because we do qualify heart.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
This can get ugly, so if you're getting upset, please let me know.
You have to recognize it as a valid way for OTHER PEOPLE to look at it.
This isn’t an answer to why do I have to recognize it as valid. The problem is that nobody is “qualifying” heart. We’ve had multiple posts where people can’t even agree on what “heart” is. If we don’t know what it is – and by we, I’m including those who accept it exists – how is it valid?
If your definition contradicts someone else’s definition, where’s the value?
As far as Corsi and QualComp goes… those have concrete examples. And they are a formulaic way of quantifying what those anti-stats people are seeing. Think this guy isn’t controlling the play? Look at Corsi. It doesn’t lie. There aren’t competing definitions, there aren’t differences in opinion, there’s just “you need to add this context”.
You can attack the usefulness, but you can’t attack the existence or definition. There’s a huge difference.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never said you, yourself, need to see it as valid. I said you don’t have to like it. Meaning, you, Jeffie Deetwheeler, don’t need to see it as valid or give two shits about it. Leave that to me and M.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Compromise for you two...
But only if you and M can agree upon a definition of heart.
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Heart...

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
You, sir, are a magic man.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Who two? I’m confuzzled.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
You and Geoff…doesn’t matter, it was half sarcastic.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I see.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
ou don’t have to like any of this but you do have to recognize it as a valid opinion/way of seeing things.
But you did.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
For other people.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t understand.
You say I have to recognize it is a valid way for other people. That means I have to recognize it as valid. Otherwise, I’m just recognizing that you’re wrong, which is what I’m doing, which is what I’m being told I can’t do.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you shit on people in Europe for using the metric system?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, I shit on people in America for using the English system.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
:)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
“You eat shit for breakfast?”
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Apr 7, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You know who has “more heart”. Lance Armstrong literally has more heart. Apparently , even among other world class endurance athletes his actual heart is freakishly big.
Roids?
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Side note: Am I the only one noticing Betts is not playing as great this year? Maybe I underrated Lappy a little bit. Or maybe Betts is handcuffed by not having two consistent wingers so they can actually be a shutdown line.
Are we worried about Carcillo-Betts-Powe in the playoffs?
I don’t want to see Carbomb in the playoffs.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Nodl? I don’t know, I don’t have the lines in front of me right now.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think we want Nodl top 9.
Basically, we have Briere, Hartnell, Leino, Richards, Carter, Giroux, JVR, Versteeg, Zherdev, Nodl in our top 9. Either you bump one down to play with Betts-Powe, or you put one in the press box and let Carcillo play. So far, the pattern has been to send Z up, because they don’t want to bump Nodl down.
In the playoffs, I honestly don’t know what they’ll do. Putting Nodl on the fourth wastes some of his capabilities, but is that difference greater than leaving Z in the press box?
I think it is. I’d rather have a Nodl-Betts-Powe fourth with a JVR, Versteeg, Carter third line than a third line with Nodl and a fourth line with Carbomb. But that’s just me.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I find it most interesting that you turned it from “heart and passion” to “effort and commitment”.
Perhaps that’s because you don’t care how emotional the guy gets (heart, passion), just how well he plays (effort, commitment)?
by Eric T. on Apr 7, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait a minute. Commitment and effort are completely based on heart and passion. You can skate your lane all night but if you do it without heart and/or passion you are just skating your lane all night. If you have no heart or passion you aren’t giving real effort and aren’t committing yourself to win at all costs.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
So your commitment to your job is based on heart and passion? If you’re not passionate about your work, you don’t put in any effort? I…uh…no offense, dude, but I wouldn’t want to be your boss.
Bob.
by The Dark on Apr 7, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If you’re not passionate about your work, you don’t put in any effort?
This couldn’t be said any better. Why are you doing something if you are not passionate about it. For the paycheck. I feel sorry for you and soon you will sorry for yourself. And actually you wouldn’t want to work for me. You however would love me as an employee because truthfully when I work I give heart and passion.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I’d rather a guy give good work than try really hard.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
/ Starts slow clap /
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Not saying trying as result at all. If you have passion about what you do you will inevitably be successful. You obviously have passion for debating and creating orange boxes. See how good you are and successful you are at it.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Thank god there’s nobody else in the office right now because I just laughed out loud.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
If you have passion about what you do you will inevitably be successful.
This just isn’t true. It’s ridiculous to say that if you just try hard enough, you’ll be successful. I have a passion for playing ice hockey. I am not successful.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Passion does not equal trying hard. Sports is a hard thing to use for an example because there is an element of physical gifts that no one has control over. Geoff you may have never been in the NHL but if you really played hockey with passion and commitment you would feel fulfilled at what you got out of it. I played form the age of 7 through college. I trained and took power skating lessons, went to numerous camps and I was not getting to the NHL, but I did it with passion and integrity and feel it paid me back throughout my life.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
This is not what you said. You said if you are passionate, you will be successful. It’s just not true. Are you more likely to be successful? Maybe. But passion does not equal success.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s ridiculous to say that if you just try hard enough, you’ll be successful.
Don’t tell that to The Ghost of Ronald Reagan.
Seriously though, I couldn’t agree more with this. Never in my life did I work harder than when I was a classroom teacher. But there’s a reason I don’t do it anymore. Conversely, I have a lot of down-time in my current job, where I still teach but have classes of no more than two people at a time, and I’ve had a lot of success.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
That’s why I’m successful now. Since I work in an apartment building (subsidized housing), I’m on my feet every so often and occasionally have to help out the handyman, bring a delivery into our storage space, etc. I dress business casual but wear Doc Marten 1460s. It’s the bootstraps that make me a success today.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I really don’t think you had the heart, passion, or true commitment required.
Of course I kid. Mike is the man for those of you that have not met him.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Right back atcha. Thanks. :)
I did have the heart, etc. to teach, but differentiating instruction is tough. Also, dealing with angry inner-city kids who grew up in abject poverty and were taught by a bunch of teachers who told them they were stupid and just “pushed them through” for years? That’s tough too.
If anyone has been reading the _Inquirer_’s series on the massive failure that is the School District of Philadelphia, that was my life to a T. Being assaulted by students but not being allowed to press charges – and being told I was “at fault” somehow? You better believe it.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
But di you have passion for teaching in the classroom. Obviously not because it wasn’t for you.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I’m still puzzled — it sounds like you’re saying that anyone who is passionate about a job will be good at it, but that can’t be right.
Surely you’ve worked with people who loved their jobs and were extremely passionate, and yet terrible at them. I know I have.
Give me an example. I don’t work in an office environment.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
An example of a person I worked with who loved their job but wasn’t good at it?
There was one woman who thought our research was absolutely fascinating and she loved doing it, but she just had no intuition for what was important and what wasn’t. As a result, she’d spend huge amounts of time studying irrelevant details (and loving doing it) and overlook critical flaws in the science.
There was one guy who thought our research was absolutely fascinating and he loved doing it, but he just had no ability to plan beyond the immediate future. As a result, he was constantly changing priorities and trying one-off experiments and never made any real progress.
My manager at the convenience store.
My manager at the food store.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
How can you be terrible at being food store manager? Unless your name is Dante’ and truthfully he hated the job so he had no passion and that is why he was terrible at his job. He would let everyone steal the gatorade.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
He wasn’t a manager of the Quick Stop though. Just a lowly employee.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I had some terrible managers at the Quickie Mart, yes. But I had passionate ones who sucked. They wanted to move up the company, so they “managed” 3 stores, neglecting all three.
They overworked employees, let shit go because he liked the employees, etc. He was also an alcoholic.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Somewhere along the way, M implied (and seems to really believe) that anyone who really likes their job and tries hard at it will be good at it.
That’s definitely not true of jobs that require specific skills.
No I am saying that if you have passion and love for any task you under take you are most likely going to be successful at it. Even if you ultimately fail you personally got pride from how you performed making you a winner.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Well, you’re assuming that the people who tried really hard and sucked at it were still proud of their effort, rather than embarrassed by their sucking.
Also, I thought we were talking about pro sports. Surely you’re not suggesting that the guy who tries hard but loses is still really a winner?
On the level of pro sports where you are being paid and selected out of millions to do a job no. But if you played a sport all your life and gave every ounce of heart and passion to it and didn’t make the pros yes you are a winner for not quitting. You can look back on the experience and realize you got a lot in return. I personally got way more from hockey then a pro contract or a try out for that matter. I learned how to compete which translates in life, I made life long friends which have paid dividends all my life and I got a sense of pride and confidence as a person which is immeasurable. These intangibles make me a winner.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
He was all about helping customers and ordering product and making the aisles look good etc. but he couldn’t do any of it well. He always ordered too much stuff, by making the aisles look good, he neglected actually stocking them, and he couldn’t delegate tasks.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, trust me, doing stuff you don’t care about sucks.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I fully understand that. It doesn’t mean I’d prefer a guy who loves his job over a guy who’s really good at his.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
But if you really love your job you can’t be bad at it can you? Again sports is an animal all to itself. It takes to many variables to be good at it. Most of which you have no control over.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Yes, yes you can. I love writing for BSH, and I’m… not very good at it.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously dude, you guys obviously have passion and love for this because it is successful and you all do a great job here. It might not be making you millionaires but it has to give you pride to see people come out and even disagree with you. That is success.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
haha, that was a joke. Though all the credit really needs to go to Travis.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Travis hasn’t said shit today about anything. But seriously all of you guys have a hand in why this site kicks ass.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
He left not too long ago.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Left? For where Europe. Doesn’t anyone have a smartphone around here? You guys drive four hours to Glen Falls and no one hears from you for an entire day.
//s
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
haha
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Because I find it hard to question a guys heart and passion, for different reasons.
Playing at both competitive, and now very non-competitive levels of hockey…I haven’t played with anyone who hasn’t had passion for the game, or a desire to win. Everyone I have played with, and currently play with has a passion for the game. Now sometimes they try to do it all themselves and that screws it up, or turn in to too much of a team player trying to just feed our scorers all the time and that screws us up, or they take dumb penalties b/c of the passion and that screws us up. I just don’t think you get to this level of hockey without passion. So I’m just not ignorant enough to question a pro athletes passion, because with out that, they wouldn’t have made it that far.
I don’t use the word heart because it can be defined 100 different ways by a hundred different people. I hate that word because people will twist it around to mean different things so they can rip on a player.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Exactly. You don’t get to the NHL if you don’t have heart and/or passion.
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by Travis Hughes on Apr 7, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, amen!
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by Travis Hughes on Apr 7, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I think of heart differently…more like will almost. Yes, everyone in the NHL has a passion for the game, of course. There’s no questioning that at all. When I think of it though I think about the heart it takes to go in to the battles that you have to face every night. The the ability to push yourself and take a hit to make a play. At times I would say, by my definition that Jeff Carter lacks heart, he barely ever seems to want to get his hands dirty. Whereas Darroll Powe and Nodl have miles and miles of it.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Go read my hypothetical above.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Meh, I’ll just repost it in a new hypothetical.
Suppose Carter was coached to play a certain way. Maybe Carter was more of a physical player, played more of a Lappy type of game but with skill. Say at some point his coach said, “hey, stop being an idiot, don’t do that stuff any more, you’re too valuable to the team.” Carter commits to the new way his coach wants him to play for the good of the team despite him initially being against it.
Does that mean Carter has less heart?
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I don’t use the word heart because it can be defined 100 different ways by a hundred different people. I hate that word because people will twist it around to mean different things so they can rip on a player.
Bam.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
More importantly are you working on any golf schedules yet?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Not yet…I’m lacking heart right now.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Had to answer the phone. Where the hell were we? I have lost track in the 20 minutes.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Haha. Don’t you hate that? I have work to do from time to time and get buried by 45 comments.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
this
by the time I have a chance to read all the new comments, i need to get back to doing some work. hence the lack of comments from moi
it’s a never ending cycle
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by coheedandtbs on Apr 7, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
You 2 both lack heart.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Oh I have heart, that’s why I’m on here now and not finishing a project that i started yesterday at like 1:30…when I was also on here. Also, I hate the project and it’s pissing me off.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
So you have no heart at your work place…yet you complain about Carter’s heart.
Hypocrite!!!
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
When I make what Carter makes you can tear into me for lack of heart. Over the last year my heart has been beaten down.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
No, that’s total BS. It has nothing to do with your pay. And this is my biggest complaint with the word…because, most of the time, in almost every sense that you use it to rip someone a new one on a hockey team, I can do the same to you…but no, no, no…it doesn’t count because he makes more, or because he does something you’d love to do. No, that’s a bunch of shit.
And I’m not trying to single you out, but it’s why I hate people for questioning someone’s heart.
/rant over.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
It was a frickin’ joke!
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, that’s why I said I’m not trying to single you out…but that’s the way people act in general with the whole heart concept….and it pisses me off, so I ranted because your joke triggered it.
It’s not personal.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
I know. You think a dude with no heart would have blown away the competish in the Promotional March Madness tourney?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha to counter with a joke…I thought you were fueled solely for the cash prize ;)
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Hey, anyone seen my leg to stand on? I can’t find it.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel bad…but I really hate the whole heart thing enough to get in to a debate with you. Which says a lot because I find you to be one of the nicest people I know, which makes me never want to enter an emotional debate where I’m likely to be an ahole to you.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Don’t, you weren’t an asshole and you were funny. Nothing to feel bad about. …Yet. haha
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He gets his points that is for sure. I want the puck on someone else’s stick when it counts though.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
In that other people have higher shooting percentages, if you want someone staring down an open net, you might choose someone else. But if there’s five minutes left in a game and you need a goal, no one else on this team has moved the play forward like Carter, and no one has scored more goals while doing it.
Best way to find the “breakout star” for the playoffs: Who is underperforming right now?
Lately, it seems to be Hartnell-Briere-Leino. And Meszaros. But we know everyone on this roster can perform, so breakout probably isn’t the right word for anyone here.
He’s not underperforming, but my bet would be on Young James to get the most attention for his play in the playoffs.
Bob.
by The Dark on Apr 7, 2011 12:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Popcorn is out today, FYI. Keep going yall.
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Anymore radio programs coming up? There might not be a lot of season left.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
There’s one more from the road in the can but it maybe shouldn’t see the light of day. I’m told it’s not very good.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone stop where they are.
Shit, now I have to actually go and accomplish something so I am going to be lost when I get back.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
The heart argument: why Mike Schmidt was never appreciated in this city in his own time until the very end of his career.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Also because when you needed him to hit a homer he didn’t but he would hit three the next day during a 10-1 beating. As I remember it vaguely. A lot like Carter.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
He needed have more clueart…you know clutch + heart.
Christ.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Let’s go with clurt.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Is that what Holmgren talked about with the team yesterday, when he was all mad an’ shit?
“YOU GUYS HAVE NO CLURT! NO CLUTCH PLUS NO HEART!”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Yeah, that was my first thought. I don’t like it, either.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Disgustingly so.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
This is why I like it, because talk of heart plus clutch makes me want to vomit.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Samsies.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he was taken entirely out of context in that article—which was a piece of shit, BTW.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I have little doubt they were taken out of context. and I like Schmidt. I’m also pretty sure he’s a prick. Although, what baseball player isn’t, when you think about it.
I guess Schmidt’s earned himself the right to be a tad of a prick, but I also think he’s got McNabb disease in that he tends to ramble and say things without thinking.
People I know who’ve met or worked with him personally say he’s a good guy, but it could all be a front, I guess.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Oh, from what I heard, he’s pretty nice. I also hear The Situation is a really pleasant, generous person. I also think he might be a bit of a douche.
I just don’t find those two traits mutually exclusive.
Side note: I’ve never had a problem with a single thing McNabb has said. I need to start a shelter for unfairly maligned Philly athletes, because I love guys like McNabb, Lindros, and Werth.
I haven’t either, but what I meant in terms of how the average Philly fan interprets his comments. See also: Hamels, Richards. People see what they want to see, I guess.
I didn’t love Werth, but I respected him. I laugh that he texted RAJ after he signed Lee and called him a dick.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I liked him. But I was a kid and didn’t pay attention to the idiocy on sportstawkraydeeyeaux.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I loved him. One of the, if not The, best 3B of all time and still people in this city shit on him (but not to the degree they once did, thankfully).
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
My very favorite player was Pete Rose, but Mike Schmidt was number 2.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
See what? Maybe he liked Rose’s bowl cut.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Keep in mind I was very small. I didn’t know at the time that Pete Rose was “A Real Winner” and that Mike Schmidt was “Apparently Analagous to Future Flyer Jeff Carter.” I knew they were good players, and I liked them.
I was scared of Gary Maddox because I thought he was too tall. That’s how my mind worked.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Because year after year the best 3b of all time didn’t win anything until they inserted a real winner like Rose. After Carter is done here and they never won anything but he ends up top 5 in scoring it will be the same thing.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
WHAT? Rose’s numbers after he got to Philly weren’t even that good. Look them up. Oh, wait.
Baseball, like hockey, is a team game. One player can’t win it all for you, but Schmidt still had some big moments. I love how everyone forgets those and only singles him out for the few times he didn’t come through. Sort of like Howard looking at called strike 3 and not at anything he did well. Selective memories, fickle bastards in this town.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
My head is starting to create a small hole in the wall near my desk at work from all this. Thank you for stepping in.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?
Yeah, I tend to take the heart argument personally because I am such a huge MJS fan. Also, huge Dawkins fan—but fans seem to laud Dawk more for his heart than his freakish talent. I don’t get it.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I liked Dawk for being a fast, physical FS. After seeing him do a reverse piledriver on a receiver who was bigger than him, my jaw hit the floor.
By the way, autocomplete wanted to replace Dawk with Daemon…
Bob.
by The Dark on Apr 7, 2011 12:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, but the average fan translates that to “he has more heart than the other guys” instead of something more accurate like relentless drive or effort. There’s no denying that Dawk got more jacked up than most when he played, but he was immensely talented and that part often gets overlooked in lieu of heart, passion, God and all that other happy horseshit.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Exactly.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s one of the reasons people constantly shake their heads at Philly. The one thing most other cities do is appreciate future HoF players when they have them. Not Philly! We aren’t afraid to boo any MFer, even if it’s his first start of the season!!! /BHOD
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Baseball is the not a team game. It is the most one on one individual game there is. It is pitcher versus hitter. It is hitter versus playmaker in the field.
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I have never seen one player win the entire WS for a team. Other, more marginal players oftentimes, have to step up and help. The NBA to me is the least team-oriented game.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Thank you.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
You agree with this? What is team about pitcher/hitter? There is no one helping a guy field a ground ball. There is no screens set so a guy can run the bases.
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What is team about a guy take a jump shot? What about the guy in front of you getting on base so you can drive him in?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You can’t take a jump shot if the right set up wasn’t taken by the other four players because there would not be availability. And the guy already on base got there without help from anyone he won the individual match up between him and the pitcher.
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What doubleh said.
You can’t boil baseball down to individual moments, then say basketball’s individual moments are the result of moving parts. You can’t score runs in baseball without the team. You can’t win games without the team. Just like you can’t win basketball games without a team, unless your name is Iverson or Kobe.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
And Iverson never had help so he never won and Kobe had help when he has won.
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Iverson had help in 2001. Iverson was also to blame for Iverson not winning, you know. He had this problem with hogging the ball and coaching.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Basketball by its nature is more of a team game. The only reason one guy doesn’t win a world series is there are multiple games. But baseball’s nature is one on one. There is no one assisting on a 100 mile an hour fast ball. There is no one helping a guy hold the bat in the air. But if you are skating up the ice and two other guys aren’t doing there jobs you are screwed.
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But sometimes good pitching beats good hitting. Basketball may have been intended to be a team game, but on the NBA level or superstar league as it’s current iteration is known—players get away with things they don’t get away with if they aren’t stars and have the ability to take over multiple games.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
And there have been hundreds of guys that were awesopme and won nothing without the supporting cast. What was Jordan without Pippen. What was Gretzky without Messier. Mario won nothing until he had a supporting cast.
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What was Howard without Utley? What was Tim Lincecum without Cody Fuckin’ Ross?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Which one of these things was not like the other…
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Ross has heart?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he has less skill than the others…
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Which mean he gets classified as a guy with Heart! He just wanted it more, ya’ know?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know last I checked Utley did nothing while Howard stood there with the bat on his shoulder.
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2008 counts for nothing, eh?
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
We aren’t talking about that. We are talking about team sports
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Team sports, yes—as in the 2008 Phillies team with Utley and Howard on it won a championship. Jeez.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Listen I get your side of the argument. Does everyone have to do a job to win a WS, yes but is that job done primarily on an individual basis, yes. There isn’t anyone blocking for you to get around the bases.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I don’t know. I’m not sure I’d want to run into Prince Fielder at full speed. /s
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
But there is someone hitting for you to get around the bases. There is someone throwing to you before someone else throws to someone else to keep you off the bases.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But the basic premise of baseball is one on one. When someone is hitting it’s just them and the pitcher. There is no meshing of multiple players at one time for the success of the group.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Again, when someone is shooting, it’s just them and the goalie.
Yes, the shot can be blocked, but in baseball, the ball can be caught. You’re looking at baseball in a tunnel and hockey in a panorama.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
But really how often is it just the goaltender vs the shooter? There is constant movement and interaction among the ten skaters on the ice. And it is set up that way. Traffic, interference with site lines, guys working to get to the net. But baseball for 200 years has been one pitcher vs one batter and everything else stands still until the basic battle is completed hit or out. I understand there are multiple people wearing the same color shirts on the field but the basis of the sport is individual in nature.
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You’re looking at the sport while nothing is happening and saying it’s one-on-one.
When the ball is in play, it’s not just pitcher v. batter. When the puck is in play, it’s not just shooter v. goalie.
The pitcher isn’t the only one who loses battles, just like the goalie isn’t.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
But the pitcher gives up the hit which is the start of anything that happens afterwards. there aren’t multiple people involved in the match up.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
The defender gives up the puck, which is the start of anything that happens.
Look, the one-on-one battle in baseball is more defined and much easier to track, watch, etc. But there are one-on-one battles all over in hockey. And there is a huge team aspect of baseball that you’re ignoring because of the origin being a one-on-one battle.
But that happens in hockey too. Are there more one-on-one battles in baseball? Not sure. Are there more strictly one-on-one battles than in hockey? Definitely, because the only “strictly one-on-one” battle is a penalty shot/shootout. Since even breakaways start with a pass.
But scoring plays are the result of a team in both hockey and baseball.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Are there more strictly one-on-one battles than in hockey? Definitely
But they are all happening at the same time.
I really had nothing to do today for the first time in a while. If you are getting tired of this let me know because really I am just looking for something to do.
Where the hell is doubleH, she started all this shit and rolled out to watch the Phils. Just like a woman.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
hahaha, seriously.
I’ve procrastinated a good bit today. But I enjoy it.
Pointless arguments like “baseball is less of a team sport” are fun. Because I don’t have a point, I’m just countering everything you say :)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
As am I! :-)
I am not even sure what side I believe in on the heart aspect. I have long thought that superior skill and talent win out over heart in almost every situation. If that wasn’t the case we would have won cups in 85, 87 and 97.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
But the pitcher gives up the hit which is the start of anything that happens afterwards. there aren’t multiple people involved in the match up.
Late comment, but what about the coach or the catcher who told the pitcher what pitch to throw? They’re not involved?
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 7, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
NO!
Only kidding DG. I think this got way out of hand but started about the idea of team sports and I felt baseball was more of a sport based of individuals. Specifically the pitcher batter match up as the focal point of the sport not the organic fluid interaction of everyone working towards a certain result.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
But that’s my point. Half the time the pitcher doesn’t decide what pitch he’s going to throw, and trusts the signals. So that’s not a one on one matchup.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 7, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
but he has to do it on his own. No one else is helping or hindering the result just the pitcher. That goes for the batter as well. They have decided to swing before the pitch is thrown most of the time.
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You’re ignoring when the ball is put in play and the pitcher’s teammates throw the guy out!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
It is still that individual making the catch not three guys creating an environment for succeeding in catching the ball.
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???
So now it’s not one-on-one, but a series of individuals making plays? Like… a team?
That’s… my… point.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Making plays on their own. Catching a fly ball is not teamwork.
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Throwing from short to first isn’t teamwork? Turning a double play isn’t teamwork?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention, Rhino otherwise, had a pretty decent 2010 post season and against some damn good pitching.
Yes, he sure did. But all anyone remembers is called third strike. Sort of like Beltran with the 2006 Mets.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
And nobody acknowledges that Howard would have grounded out to third if he hit the ball, let alone swung.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he would have whiffed personally, but that’s just me. That pitch was perfect. Sigh. Brian Wilson is such a douchenozzle.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Right. The point is: People give him shit for not swinging, but… he wasn’t going to get on base anyway.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously? Box time!
The only reason one guy doesn’t win a world series is there are multiple games.
There are multiple hockey games. This means nothing.
But baseball’s nature is one on one.
Does the shooter not face the goalie?
There is no one assisting on a 100 mile an hour fast ball.
There is no one assisting on a 100 mile an hour slap shot.
There is no one helping a guy hold the bat in the air.
There is no one helping a guy hold the stick on the ice.
But if you are skating up the ice and two other guys aren’t doing there jobs you are screwed.
If you’re running down a fly ball, and there aren’t two other guys doing their jobs, you are screwed.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
this made me laugh, thank
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Apr 7, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
There are multiple hockey games. This means nothing.
The same guys play in all games. Not just two or three.
Does the shooter not face the goalie?
It is not the essence of the sport. Pitcher vs batter is the essence of the sport.
There is no one assisting on a 100 mile an hour slap shot.
He had to get open to take the shot on account of somebody, let alone getting out of his own zone. And it mostly goes in the net because there is a screen.
There is no one helping a guy hold the stick on the ice.
What? This is not the time for tummy sticks. Learned that last game.
If you’re running down a fly ball, and there aren’t two other guys doing their jobs, you are screwed.
What job? they don’t wipe you ass while you catch it.
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The same guys play in all games. Not just two or three.
The same guys play in the hockey games too!
It is not the essence of the sport. Pitcher vs batter is the essence of the sport.
How is shooter v. goalie not the essence of the sport? If passing to get the shot is the essence, then so is moving runners over to get them in scoring position.
He had to get open to take the shot on account of somebody, let alone getting out of his own zone. And it mostly goes in the net because there is a screen.
This is ridiculously over simplified. This does not apply to Claude Giroux. But runs are scored in baseball by someone having to get on base to score the run, on account of somebody knocking him in. Not all goals are scored unassisted, just like not all runs are scored on solo home runs.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The same guys play in the hockey games too!
The same pitcher doesn’t play in all games so he can’t be responsible for winning a ws alone but the very position of baseball pitcher is an individual in each game.
How is shooter v. goalie not the essence of the sport?
scoring goals is the essence of the sport and that is done by way more interaction then simply shooter vs goalie. Other then a break away or shootout.
in baseball by someone having to get on base to score the run, on account of somebody knocking him in. Not all goals are scored unassisted, just like not all runs are scored on solo home runs.
But the very basis of the sport is the one on one match up between the pitcher and the catcher. Yes you get two runs when someone else won his one on one battle but the to at bats are mutually exclusive of one another. The entire game revolves around the battle between pitcher and the batter, the rest is residual.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
but the very position of baseball pitcher is an individual in each game.
The very position of hockey center is an individual in each game. What is your point?
scoring goals is the essence of the sport and that is done by way more interaction then simply shooter vs goalie. Other then a break away or shootout.
haha, AS IS BASEBALL. It’s not just “pitcher throws ball, batter hits home run, scores run”. You have to hit the ball into the field, have a fielder retrieve it, throw to another fielder who defends a base, who gives it back to the pitcher. repeat until a run is scored.
But the very basis of the sport is the one on one match up between the pitcher and the catcher. Yes you get two runs when someone else won his one on one battle but the to at bats are mutually exclusive of one another. The entire game revolves around the battle between pitcher and the batter, the rest is residual.
This is like saying that to score a goal, the Flyers go through a series of one-on-one battles: Pronger v. forward in the corner. Carter v. center in the zone. Giroux v. defender.
Everything can be boiled down to one-on-one battles. It’s just easier to see them in baseball, but it doesn’t mean that’s all there is. You get a guy on first, you have batter v. pitcher v. baserunner v. first baseman v. shortstop.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The very position of hockey center is an individual in each game. What is your point?
He is working constantly in conjunction with the other four players. They are all involved in the play of the game.
haha, AS IS BASEBALL. It’s not just "pitcher throws ball, batter hits home run, scores run". You have to hit the ball into the field, have a fielder retrieve it, throw to another fielder who defends a base, who gives it back to the pitcher. repeat until a run is scored.
But time stands still until that pitch is thrown. And how the pitcher performs can effect the entire game, all without any interaction of anyone else at all.
This is like saying that to score a goal, the Flyers go through a series of one-on-one battles: Pronger v. forward in the corner. Carter v. center in the zone. Giroux v. defender.
There are one on one battles in hockey that all work at the same time in tandem to accomplish a result.
Everything can be boiled down to one-on-one battles. It’s just easier to see them in baseball, but it doesn’t mean that’s all there is. You get a guy on first, you have batter v. pitcher v. baserunner v. first baseman v. shortstop.
Really its pitcher vs all those forces he has the ball and ultimately controls the outcome.
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He is working constantly in conjunction with the other four players. They are all involved in the play of the game.
This is true of the pitcher as well. I’m still not seeing your point.
But time stands still until that pitch is thrown. And how the pitcher performs can effect the entire game, all without any interaction of anyone else at all.
That’s the nature of every sport. Time stands still until the quarterback hikes the ball. Time stands still until the faceoff is taken.
How the goalie performs can effect the entire game, all without any interaction of anyone else at all. It doesn’t happen often in either sport though.
There are one on one battles in hockey that all work at the same time in tandem to accomplish a result.
If they all work in tandem, then they aren’t one-on-one battles.
Really its pitcher vs all those forces he has the ball and ultimately controls the outcome.
A) this just isn’t true. There’s a reason xFIP exists, there’s a reason errors exist, there’s a reason defenses shift for Ryan Howard.
B) Whoever has the puck ultimately controls the outcome.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true of the pitcher as well. I’m still not seeing your point.
But time is standing still as well as the other players during the pitchers one on one battle. Baseball isn’t the organic motion of several players at one time to succeed.
That’s the nature of every sport. Time stands still until the quarterback hikes the ball. Time stands still until the faceoff is taken.
These are merely examples of starting the multiple movements of multiple players all at the same time to get a specific result.
How the goalie performs can effect the entire game, all without any interaction of anyone else at all.
The goalie is constantly being influenced by the actions of ten skaters in front of him. We lost two games on pucks hitting players involved in traffic in front of the net.
If they all work in tandem, then they aren’t one-on-one battles.
A forward is tied up by a d at the same time a center is tied up with another center. in order to get a scoring chance for a defenseman shooting the puck at the net. If one of the two other one on one battles isn’t successful the puck is probably getting saved or not ending up in the net.
there’s a reason defenses shift for Ryan Howard.
because the result of the one on one battle between pitcher and Howard results in a particular result if in fact Howard wins the initial one on one battle of hitting the ball which everyone in the filed is standing around waiting for.
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But time is standing still as well as the other players during the pitchers one on one battle. Baseball isn’t the organic motion of several players at one time to succeed.
Because the ball isn’t in play. If you have a board battle, the other 4 guys are standing around too.
The goalie is constantly being influenced by the actions of ten skaters in front of him. We lost two games on pucks hitting players involved in traffic in front of the net.
The pitcher is constantly being influenced by the actions of 8 fielders surrounding him. Felix lost multiple games based on his fielders being unable to defend.
because the result of the one on one battle between pitcher and Howard results in a particular result if in fact Howard wins the initial one on one battle of hitting the ball which everyone in the filed is standing around waiting for.
It’s late in the day and I didn’t follow this. The point is: the pitcher doesn’t control (or, has very, very little control on) the outcome outside of strikeouts, walks, and home runs.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the ball isn’t in play. If you have a board battle, the other 4 guys are standing around too.
Only if they are Jeff Carter. Doesn’t want to mess up his center city good looks. You managed to find one example of a split second of down time. Good work.
The pitcher is constantly being influenced by the actions of 8 fielders surrounding him. Felix lost multiple games based on his fielders being unable to defend.
But only after his one on one battle is over, which is the basis of that sport.
It’s late in the day and I didn’t follow this. The point is: the pitcher doesn’t control (or, has very, very little control on) the outcome outside of strikeouts, walks, and home runs.
But strikeouts, walks, and home runs are the basis of the whole game.
We are only down to three orange boxes I think this is progress.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
You managed to find one example of a split second of down time. Good work.
But all you’re talking about is that split second of game action that is down time in baseball. You’re comparing when the ball isn’t in play to when the puck is on the ice. It doesn’t work, but you continue to do so.
But only after his one on one battle is over, which is the basis of that sport.
Not only does this apply to hockey as well, but the one-on-one battle between pitcher and hitter has more than four (walk, strikeout, HbP, home run) outcomes. So what you’re saying is: the one-on-one battle includes when the pitcher needs his fielders to… field.
But strikeouts, walks, and home runs are the basis of the whole game.
I thought the basis of the whole game was winning? And if the only runs were scored by home runs, I’d agree with you. But the pitcher doesn’t control most hits (BABIP, xFIP, etc.), nor most runs. So… you said nothing up there.
We are only down to three orange boxes I think this is progress.
Bam, back to four.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHA!
But all you’re talking about is that split second of game action that is down time in baseball. You’re comparing when the ball isn’t in play to when the puck is on the ice. It doesn’t work, but you continue to do so.
The ball is only in play in baseball for a split second the rest of the time the pitcher and the batter are adjusting their jock straps.
So what you’re saying is: the one-on-one battle includes when the pitcher needs his fielders to… field.
No the fielders fielding are more individual moments in a baseball game. The entire game is made u of individuals making plays. Not the liquid interaction of everyone on the field.
And an orange box saying it is an orange box doesn’t count as an orange box.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
The ball is only in play in baseball for a split second the rest of the time the pitcher and the batter are adjusting their jock straps.
But when it is in play, it is a team sport. With players interacting with one another to get the batter out.
No the fielders fielding are more individual moments in a baseball game. The entire game is made u of individuals making plays. Not the liquid interaction of everyone on the field.
I think you need to watch a 6-4-3 double play.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You are getting much more focused all of a sudden. What spurred the sudden clarity?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
haha, the headache that has been brewing for 3 hours?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
No the fielders fielding are more individual moments in a baseball game. The entire game is made u of individuals making plays. Not the liquid interaction of everyone on the field.
As a former catcher who has both run over and been run over by his own third baseman, I call shenanigans. Fielding is a team effort.
Bob.
Other, more marginal players oftentimes, have to step up and help.
Geoff Jenkins in 2008’s Game 5, Version 2.0.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
See bench: opening day, 2011
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Just like Crosby winning the first-ever Winter Classic.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I am not picking up what you are putting down.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I was known to have fielded every postion simultaneously. Kidding aside, it is the most individualistic of the team sport because 60% of the game boils down to the duel between pitcher and batter.
This is true, but just because it’s individualistic doesn’t mean it still doesn’t involve team. Some rules have been instituted to make the game more offense-friendly and therefore less pitcher friendly (sort of along the lines with my NBA rant), but if Roy is killing it on the mound and his fielders eff up behind him in the field, Phils could still lose the game despite Doc’s effort (FIP).
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Right, because every out ever recorded is just like Eric Bruntlett’s game-ending unassisted triple play against the Mets.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Good times. That was the luckiest play in the history of lucky baseball plays. They even mentioned it on an episode of Cold Case FFS.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I don’t think so, but this ep was from that season.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Yeah, there’s a detective looking into it.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Apr 7, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Also:
Hi, we’re The Heart Argument, thanks for coming out tonight.
If I ever write music for Ann and Nancy Wilson, we’ll call it The Heart Argument (Heart + The Garrett Klotz Argument)
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Why are we stopping "The Heart Argument" fer Chrissakes?
YOU GUYS DON’T “WANT IT ENOUGH!!!”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Try not to capitalize so much it is frowned upon around here.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I like him.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Something we agree on ;). Also Bourdon and supposedly Eddy were sent to the ECHL for the playoffs.
Gus Supporter.
Makes sense. They could actually play in the playoffs (game requirement.)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you tell me how Leights can play in the playoffs? He only played one game this year, right?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Leights? He was on the 50-man reserve list at the deadline. Technically, Matt Clackson can play in the playoffs.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought there was still a game requirement. Interesting.
God help us if Matt Clackson plays in the post-season.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 7, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that I understand. Look at Jared Ross last year, he played… what? 3 games?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Read, Denis Hamel, Nic Riopel, Harry Zolnierczyk, Oliver Lauridsen, Cullen Eddy, maybe a few others…
Basically, anybody not signed to an NHL deal for this season.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember Gustafsson being called up last season. I guess I dont understand the rules fully, but I do question why they called him up for the playoff run if he couldnt play.
Gus Supporter.
I don’t remember that… Tim McManus listed:
They are goaltender Jeremy Duchesne, forwards Jon Kalinski, David Laliberte and Andreas Nodl, and defensemen Joonas Lehtivuori, Kevin Marshall and Danny Syvret. Duchesne will be the backup goalie if Johan Backlund is not ready.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I find myself anticipating the 2 o'clok #.........
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Since it’s forbidden to ask on TGP, anyone know of any streams for the Phillies game this afternoon?
Sarauj, Latvija!
Anyone else hear that EJ Maguire passed away today? Solid hockey man.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=558587&navid=DL|PHI|home
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
The views expressed by FLYERROB do not necessarily represent the views of, and should not be attributed to BSH
if no one has claimed JVR, can he be my man-crush?
On like three levels.
1. He was in the crease before the puck got there. They never call this but it is a rule.
2. He kicked the puck and made no contact with the stick afterwards
3. There was not one shred of evidence that the puck crossed the line and there is no way in the hell the ref saw it cross against the post side twenty feet away.
Mockery of a sham of a fraud. There was not a review for 20 minutes but rather a call from New York saying the Blackhawks need to be in the playoffs, its a goal!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
1. He was in the crease before the puck got there. They never call this but it is a rule.
Well, I’m pretty sure this is not true (confirmed by a quick glance at Rules 69 and 78.5), but I agree with everything else. I think there WAS enough prove to overturn the goal, for either of the reasons you listed. The goal line thing, however, I can understand; the kicking motion was just inexcusable.
A player is not allowed to be in the crease before the puck enters the crease. I always thought that was a basic rule that is never upheld. And by the way under what authority did DG give you permission to go to the rule book?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I understand what you’re saying, but what I’m telling you is that this rule never appears in the NHL rulebook, and therefore isn’t one.
Wow, talk about playing the sport and really never knowing the rules. I thought this was the basis of enforcing the crazy crease rules that year that Brett Hull ultimately won the cup by being in the crease before the puck.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
It was. Shortly after they changed the rule to this:
69.1 Interference on the Goalkeeper – This rule is based on the premise that an attacking player’s position, whether inside or outside the crease, should not, by itself, determine whether a goal should be allowed or disallowed. In other words, goals scored while attacking players are standing in the crease may, in appropriate circumstances be allowed. Goals should be disallowed only if: (1) an attacking player, either by his positioning or by contact, impairs the goalkeeper’s ability to move freely within his crease or defend his goal; or (2) an attacking player initiates intentional or deliberate contact with a goalkeeper, inside or outside of his goal crease.
A friend brought this to my attention: http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/holmgren_holds_closed_door_meeting/
Sounds like Homer is pretty pissed about the way we’re playing too.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Well so much he knows, stats say otherwise. He wants them to win puck battles and compete. Is that per 60 minutes?
//kidding
Really holmgren isn’t your weaselly little GM dude so if he comes a calling I am sure it makes an impact. At least I sure as shit hope so.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
He would have been all over the Phantoms locker room if they were in Philly. I mean, he is in the Flyers locker room giving these talks every day, right?
/FlyerRob’d
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHA
That aint right man. Poor guy wore his heart on his sleeve.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
haha, example of someone who is passionate (about talking hockey) not being successful (in talking hockey)!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
touche'
he was very passionate but he just never seemed to mesh with the crowd. It was like he wasn’t getting it. Good example of against my passion = success thing though.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
:)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
So, uh, we done arguing about heart and baseball now guys? Damn. Missed the whole thing.
Soon to be Sestitos Stache
It was epic.
Finally Geoff gave up. :-)
Just kidding man that was one hell of a day.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
haha, I had to go to class. But I’m back!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I will pay someone $1 to count every block quote in this thread.
Also, I am somewhat suprised that in a hockey-related discussion about heart, drive, determination, etc., no one mentioned Alexandre Daigle.
Read my damn mind as an example of skill without heart or passion. But there are hundreds of Daigle’s and few Bob Clark’s
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
But there are also successful Daigles. Like Jeff Carter.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Other then scoring meaningless goals what success.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Nah, just those. All he does is score, Buddy Ryan.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently Daigle had heart and passion, only his passion involved becoming an actor as opposed to being a professional hockey player.
I wouldn’t put Daigle and Carter at exactly the same level though. Daigle was a #1 overall supposed to be “The Next Big Thing” and sucked pretty royally.
Phils won 11-0 this afternoon. That’s a team with heart (haha – couldn’t help myself as I’ve been following this thread since this morning).
Sarauj, Latvija!
Hoping to set off a new war of words as to which team has more heart. Just kidding. Hoping this thread finally dies down after 8 hours of non stop block quoting.
Sarauj, Latvija!
Come on man! Did I need to put /sarcasm/ after that one. :-)
That was crazy today. Someone even got stabbed with a trident!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Haha, sometimes I can’t tell on here who is being serious and who isn’t!
Sarauj, Latvija!
by LVHokejs on Apr 7, 2011 6:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, I ended up listening to it on the radio.
Sarauj, Latvija!
by LVHokejs on Apr 7, 2011 6:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
OK, kiddos. Here’s something to keep you busy for a bit.
A sporcle quiz on flyers shooting numbers. Give it a try, let me know if it needs any editing.
All the JVR ones threw me because you could only type “James van Riemsdyk” or “Riemsdyk” for it to work. “JVR” and “van Riemsdyk” weren’t accepted.
Still, even missing all those, 28/33.
If the time is too short, let me know. I didn’t want to make anyone feel like they had to sit there for 20 minutes trying random names on random lines, though.
You really have to type fast and know how to spell names. I knew the Mez question but that names, forgetaboutit
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
maybe numbers instead of names?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Closest to net on ES shots
Is this like horseshoes? And if it is farthest from the net is Carter the winner? Did we need to know just how many feet away?
/kidding around because I have no chance in knowing any of these answers.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
SophisJo'd
Reply fail to Eric T
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Like Hartnell kind of low? As in on the ice?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
My heartless take on the heart debate
It’s all about the difference between cause and effect, for me.
The cause for the Flyers playing poorly is a lot harder to quantify than the effect. We can observe a decrease in Corsi tied to show that the Flyers aren’t controlling the play as well, but coming up with a reason for the decrease is much harder.
I think Eric’s graph illustrating the effect of losing Pronger on the teams Corsi numbers goes a long way in explaining the cause of the decrease, i.e no Pronger, but it’s much harder to infer the reason why Pronger has such a great effect.
Heart, leadership, grit, commitment etc all fall under the “hard to quantify (or damn well impossible)” areas, but to me it doesn’t mean that none of those things have an impact on a hockey game.
Mourning Gagne forever.
These guys for the most part are all skilled enough to compete what makes them more successful is the intangible that isn’t quantifiable. Which I think was where my argument started.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Are the intangibles enough to be the difference between winning and losing hockey games?
Mourning Gagne forever.
They can be. My earlier example was the the trap. Lesser talented team play the trap and it is not brain surgery what they are doing. I know it is a strategy and game plan but It is also the willingness of the defender out work the other team. I believe this where heart comes in. Most of the skill level is unquestioned. But if a guy is going to put every last breathe into pushing the more skilled forward off the ice in frustration it had to be something inside his psyche above his overall skill level.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Y’all should have read this because I offered a suggestion as to why the Flyers may be struggling.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
But if a guy is going to put every last breathe into pushing the more skilled forward off the ice in frustration it had to be something inside his psyche above his overall skill level.
Why is it “heart” and not “skill/ability” that makes him successful.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the trapping player is already acknowledged as not as talented. Like I said about Lappy. He can not compete with Jeff Carter on any head to head skill, but he has been successful because of something intangible and a spirit to not quit trying. I look at it as heart.
Look at the broad street bullies, which guy did you think had the least amount of pure hockey talent of the major players? There was something intangible about this guy that made him one of the most revered players in history.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
So if you took Carter’s talent away, and gave him Lappy’s abilities, he wouldn’t be as good as Lappy?
Mourning Gagne forever.
No if you added to Carter the willingness to use his face to block a shot mentality he would be one of the greatest players in history. I have a mental block when it comes to Carter for some reason.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I fail to see how that is at all true.
If Carter was willing to block a shot wit his face, he wouldn’t be as good offensively.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he wouldn’t be on the ice.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 8, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
So trapping teams aren’t as good as skilled players, but the trapping teams beat them because of their heart, not because of their strategy?
Yeah, I don’t believe you.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 7, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Now Geoff we both know that lesser talented teams employ a trap style to combat skilled players. I don’t think a trap is a complex super strategy rather then a commitment to just work your ass off and pressure the puck. If you don’t have higher level skills and you are going to shut down a star player there has to be an intangible mixed into the equation.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
rather then a commitment to just work your ass off and pressure the puck.
Isn’t the point of the trap to not pressure the puck? All you’re doing is clogging up half the ice rather than spreading your guys out, creating space.
If you don’t have higher level skills and you are going to shut down a star player there has to be an intangible mixed into the equation.
There really doesn’t. Unless you call “defensive gameplan” an “intangible”.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 8, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Came Back?...Not Again
Isn’t the point of the trap to not pressure the puck? All you’re doing is clogging up half the ice rather than spreading your guys out, creating space.
You are clogging up the passing and skating lanes by pressuring and funneling the puck carrier into a predefined area. It seems to me way more active then passive. You aren’t just standing there.
There really doesn’t. Unless you call "defensive gameplan" an "intangible".
It takes a level of commitment to keep grinding at the opposition.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
You are clogging up the passing and skating lanes by pressuring and funneling the puck carrier into a predefined area. It seems to me way more active then passive. You aren’t just standing there.
It’s a lot easier to do that when you are only playing from the red line back. That’s not very "heart"y.
It takes a level of commitment to keep grinding at the opposition.
Which is what the offense is doing. The defense is playing sound defense, sticking to a system, and staying disciplined in your role. Again, that’s not “heart” making the trap work. It’s discipline, strategy, and positioning.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 8, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
For a guy with not a lot of emotion you sure show heart with your relentless pursue of this thread.
The box is just for effect.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
hahaha, I think that’s a win for me.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 8, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ve worn me down Detweiler. I have run out of heart.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Ha!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 8, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Three more posts and we get it to 600!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
598
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Apr 8, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
599
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Apr 8, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
600.
You guys took too long…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Apr 8, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone watching rags on vs. I love the bubble weekend before the playoffs.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
And the COTFB goes to
A tie, for making me laugh when Geoff and M started back into it.
rutro, box time
by j reed
My eyes are bleeding. This can’t be good.
by hintzy64
G, the second coming of Foppa.

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