ECSF Game 3: Out of gas, the Flyers are pushed to the edge
by Travis Hughes on May 4, 2011 9:57 PM EDT
in 2011 NHL Playoffs
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Eastern Conference Semifinals, Game 3 -- Boston leads series, 3-0
[Box Score] - [Full Series Coverage] - [Game Page] - [Boston Reaction]
[Shift Charts] - [Head-to-Head TOI] - [Corsi and Fenwick] - [5-on-5 Faceoffs
Well, we need another miracle.
Tonight's loss was ugly in just about every way, perhaps even uglier than the 7-3 loss in Game 1 against the Boston Bruins. You're likely going to read a lot about the Flyers effort and the inability to show up in such a huge game, but you're not going to get that here.
They got off to a poor start and looked like they just weren't ready to play at 7:07 p.m at TD Garden tonight. But that's really so atypical of this Flyers team, isn't it? It's frustrating when we're so pumped up for the game, it starts, and it seems like the players themselves just don't care at all.
I don't see a team that doesn't care. I see a team that's just worn out. Physically, mentally, whatever. They've thrown so much at the wall in the last year or so -- the second half of the 2009-10 season, the comeback in last year's Eastern Conference Semifinals against Boston, the run to the Cup, the entire 2010-11 season, two in-game comebacks against Buffalo in the first round, 54 shots on Tim Thomas in Game 2.
They just have nothing left in the tank. Some players still have some jump. James van Riemsdyk, Claude Giroux, Nikolay Zherdev all come to mind. But for the most part, the guys are spent. Saying that they don't care would be an insult to everything they've done since December of 2009. They just don't have anything left to give.
No more thoughts tonight. Just questions with answers and the comment of the night, after the jump.
Questions with Answers
- Tim Thomas. Can he be defeated? Not really.
- No power play goals for Boston still? It took a 5-on-3 in the final minute of the game.
- How's Carter look? He didn't look bad. Not full speed, clearly, but he got a regular shift.
- How do the matchups change now that we're in Boston, and does that help the Bruins? I don't know, nor do I really care right now.
Comment of the Night
hell im a girl and i want to see more katy perry boobs. much better than this game for sure.
>> tabby187
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Thank you for acknowledging that perhaps it’s not a lack of talent or desire…just nothing left in the tank…
by alaskalovestheflyers on May 4, 2011 10:00 PM EDT reply actions
I think it is a bit of both. Boston is solid (nothing special but decent) and the Flyers are slumping because they have run out of juice. I long off season of healing could go a long way? Or something like that. What a horrible consolation prize.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on May 4, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The summer of 2010 was the shortest off-season in Flyers’ history. I’ll take the consolation prize now if it means better things next June.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I’d think we’d have seen stuff from the last season’s run in the first half of the season. I think it’s more that Lavy runs his teams into the ground which I think is something you had noted in a post a month ago. The evidence just keeps stacking up.
This gives new meaning to the word stealth Travis. I don’t even get a chance to read these things anymore the’re usually up so late :)
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
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by sophiejo on May 4, 2011 10:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Jeremey Roenick just commented on the Flyers lack of effort.
"Halak way out of the net! It pinballs to the crease...SCOOORRREEEEE!"
Or follow me on Twitter: @mpbless022
That sounds very right, but there are better words to describe the Flyers’ play tonight. I dont think they necessarily werent trying. Not purposefully anyway, because I’ve seen games where they look like they just don’t give a shit.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
by sophiejo on May 4, 2011 10:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
there are better words to describe the Flyers’ play tonight
Like $&#(), ^#&, !$%^#, and ********
"Halak way out of the net! It pinballs to the crease...SCOOORRREEEEE!"
Or follow me on Twitter: @mpbless022
Not quite, not quite. I agree with the ‘out of gas’ more than the ‘lack of effort’. Their play was pitiful not…..embarrassing.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
by sophiejo on May 4, 2011 10:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sigh
Frustrating is the way I’d describe it. I don’t even know how I feel. Exhausted I supposed. A little angry. Ready to drink til I can’t remember.
Eagles next starting QB: "East-West Shrine Game Legend" Mike Kafka
Flyers: Bob
Phillies:Gah enough with the injuries!.
Seriously
I promise to watch every game DVRed from now til the end of the season. Why?
0-6 Live
4-0 DVR
Eagles next starting QB: "East-West Shrine Game Legend" Mike Kafka
Flyers: Bob
Phillies:Gah enough with the injuries!.
Didn’t you say the same thing on Monday?
by DragonGirl0583 on May 5, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing left in the tank? What a load of fluffy crap. That is why they are top athletes. That is why they are in the NHL and not playing for some team or in weekend pickup games. You get paid to always have something left in the tank, especially when your season is on the line. I mean people are going to loose their jobs over this shit, all because you had nothing left in the tank.
Watching this team’s slide since the all star game, I think we all had a pretty good idea that the Flyers were a good team, but definately not the greatest. Probably good enough for a run, but not good enough to win the cup.
I don’t think anyone expected us to end the season with a bang, but definitely not with a wimper either.
They put up 54 shots on goal last game, or did you miss that effort?
At this point in time, the Bruins are just a better team. Nobody expected the Pronger disaster. Carter is probably 80% at best. The goalie roulette caught up with us. When you go into the playoffs with a starting goalie who has won his spot through better play, and after one soft goal not only do you not come back with him but you drop him off the roster for a guy who played 1 game the entire season, there is something seriously wrong with the decision making process in the coaching office.
The Flyers have lost track of the system they are supposed to be playing. I didn’t see any adjustments. For godsakes, Tim Thomas sees a guy shooting and he’s halfway to the circle. How about some set plays where you intentionally shoot pass to a guy in the corner? I expected to see something different this game but it was just more of the same, and a lot of people going — you gotta shoot. Well they shot a lot of pucks at Thomas, did it help?
You played against a team that the equivalent of a counter puncher and you went out every round and swung as hard as you could while they rope-adoped you for three straight games. I don’t know what it was that they supposedly were looking at on film.
You played against a team that the equivalent of a counter puncher and you went out every round and swung as hard as you could while they rope-adoped you for three straight games. I don’t know what it was that they supposedly were looking at on film.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Anyone who has participated in or a fan of combat sports would say that is the perfect analogy. And the more sad/funny part is tactically the Bruins are not that different from last year but just got more talent to do it even better. It’s like they went from a turtle shell defense (Winky Wright) to a Philly shell (Mayweather). I still consider myself a hockey n00b and I thought this was so fucking obvious.
Agree
Just look at Detroit as an example, this team has gone deep in the Playoffs year after year (mostly) for better than a decade; they are starting to get a little long in the tooth, but they always seem to ‘have something in the tank’. This Philly team is one of the most frustrating teams I’ve ever watched. You just don’t know which team is gonna show up. I don’t blame the goaltending. I think Bob is the future for this team, and should have been the guy right from the start, and stuck with him.
Two straight years of being swept in the second round? Bad example
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by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
So who's the new goalie next year?
Because ya know how the Flyers pick up somebody random and new every 90+ games and all…
Boobs are cool. Bobs can win 4 straight and shock everyone, like Varlamov did
Nope, their torture of us isn’t over yet
4 more games to be played
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on May 4, 2011 10:21 PM EDT reply actions
I was thinking this too…After their heartbreaking loss in game 4 in the first round, Tampa Bay responded with 7 straight wins. 4 should be easy…
"Halak way out of the net! It pinballs to the crease...SCOOORRREEEEE!"
Or follow me on Twitter: @mpbless022
I won’t stop believing until it’s 0:00 and the Flyers are losing in the 3rd period, Friday night. Until that point in time, I’m gonna have hope
Now if they lose Friday, I’m hoping for Lavvy’s head on a platter
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on May 5, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I can’t help but think chemistry is the missing element. Whether between players or players and coach, I fet like I saw a TEAM win last year and that I’m watching a bunch of players lose now. Sure I’m still sour over losing Gagne but he was a major part of the TEAM and he was disrespectfully jettisoned. Maybe it’s why I see a flippant nonchalance from Gagne’s former centerman. Sure he always plays well but has he put the team on his back at any moment this playoffs? Can’t say I wouldn’t be disillusioned either…
this sucks
I’m not sure I get the ‘out of gas’ notion. I work outside on fresh asphalt in 90 degree weather for 10 hours a day in the summer, 6 or 7 days a week. I sweat and work my ass off. I go home, get a good night sleep, and I’m ready to go the next day. And you’re going to tell me that something from last year is wearing a professional athlete down now? I’m not buying it.
I'm kind of a dick.
I agree, though I will say that mental exhaustion also takes its toll.
"Halak way out of the net! It pinballs to the crease...SCOOORRREEEEE!"
Or follow me on Twitter: @mpbless022
I don’t think I made it clear enough that I meant mental exhaustion over physical, but yeah. I think that’s what explains the breakdowns on D in the first period. They’ve done so much in the last year and they’ve overcome so much that yes, I think you eventually hit a wall where you just can’t do it anymore.
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by Travis Hughes on May 4, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
But what is there to overcome? You come out and you play hockey like you have all season. Are you saying we were doomed from the start of the playoffs?
I'm kind of a dick.
To an extent, perhaps we’re realizing that now. They’ve looked lost for months and I don’t buy the “they just don’t care” excuse. And we know they have the talent.
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by Travis Hughes on May 4, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Boston may very well be the better team, but I don’t think they’re THIS much better than the Flyers. I see a Flyers team that’s defeated, plain and simple.
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by Travis Hughes on May 4, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, we outplayed them in game 2, and played well tonight. Goaltending really sucked ass(why Bob hasnt got a 2nd chance is beyond me), thats what kept Buffalo in for 7 games and Boston has a 3-0 lead.
Samesis
The team did not play well tonight. They were on their heals for much of the game, and rarely were able to cycle or control the puck or generate chances. The last game we deserved to win but lost. This game we didn’t deserve to win.
Yeah, the team played like shit tonight. Boosh was fine until the 4th goal.
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by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, they have looked lost, and the last thing I want to believe about this team is that they don’t care. I guess I just have a hard time understanding the “mental fatigue” of an athlete that literally has no worries other than playing a game.
I'm kind of a dick.
Yeah, I see where you’re coming from. I have a headache or I’d debate it more.
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by Travis Hughes on May 4, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, yeah I’ve had one since puck drop.
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by Travis Hughes on May 4, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Mental/emotional fatigue results from the over stimulation of the central nervous system. In a sport like hockey your constantly responding and adapting to quickly changing stimulus, some of which is incredibly violent. – your playing an hour or more, up to 3 times a week in a hyper viligant, adrendalized “fight or fight” state. When you consider how the game requires alot of explosive movements provided by fast twitch muscle fibers which in turn involves various neurotransmitters and neurohomores to function and couple this with the aforementioned environmental stressors and stimulus saturation that tax the same excitatory systems, mental/emotional fatigue is a valid issue for a hockey player. This type of fatigue applies to many athletes and it’s been well documented by modern sport science to have adverse effects on athletic performance.
That’s all well and good, but there have been other teams to reach back-to-back Stanley Cup Finals, no? I seem to recall two certain teams achieving that feat very recently. They had to go through all these things you just mentioned above. Where was their fatigue?
by FooFighter1124 on May 5, 2011 5:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, those two teams were not coached by Peter Laviolette, who is Mr. Uptempo Endurance Skate Skate Skate and Pursue The Puck.
Mike Babcock’s system relies much more on positioning, on-ice awareness, puck control, and support. He has speedy, skilled players to work with, and that makes his job easier. Plus, his system is all about puck CONTROL, not puck PURSUIT.
Michel Therrien and Dan Bylsma had / have more defensive systems in place. Therrien’s was more of a counter-punch, defense first system a la Ken Hitchcock. Bylsma is defensive-minded as well, but he gives his skilled players more freedom to do what they do best.
My point is that none of these three coaches have systems which are nearly as aggressive as Laviolette’s. And Laviolette’s system wears people out physically. If it’s your job to always be skating at top speed, and always be right on top of the opposition when they have the puck, you’re going to expend a lot more energy.
If he’s going to depend on that system entirely, he needs to be coaching in college, in juniors, or in the AHL where most of your players are younger and can recover more quickly.
But honestly, I don’t see why he can’t institute a hybrid of his “real” system (like we’ve seen this year) and the one he used last season, which featured trapping.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I merely demonstrated how mental and stress related fatigue is a real issue for athletes and has an adverse effects on athletic performance. It’s one of the many types of fatigue an athlete may experience by itself or in combination with others. In regards to the Flyers, I am saying that it’s a more plausible theory than the typical sound bite, overvalued and misused psychological explanations preferred by many coaches/GMs, fans, sports media and analysts to assess failure and success over less specualtive approaches like statistical analysis, team strategies, and/or sports science and exercise physiology. This is not a dismissal of sports psychology, in fact, there is alot quantified work in the field but how do you make evaluations when they are complicated by some inherent subjectivity without eliminatiing those that are more objective, like the statistical, tactical and biological ones, first? And in particular to the Flyers, after they overcame all that adversity last season, I give little weight to accusations of bad attitudes, apathy or lack of intenstinal fortitude which, even under ordinary circumstances are often unsubstantiatable criticisms of professional sports teams.
why would you say they literally have no worries other than playing a game? That’s a bit disingenuous at best.
I don’t like it, but I can understand the Flyers being mentally fatigued; I’ve experienced it a number of times, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you, after taking a hard look at yourself, were able to admit the same. Everyone, at some time or another, phones it in. Whether it’s work, school, relationships, etc. etc.
No I think the problem is, that there is a point that you can get to in a series where as a team, you just don’t know what to do. The things that were clicking for you are not working. You’re banging your head against a wall, and nothing seems to be going your way. You take a step forward and 2 back. Guys start trying too hard, and force things. It was like watching Ovechkin attempt to carry the Caps - that shit doesn’t work in the NHL. Hockey is a team game, and as maddening as that is, no single player is going to turn things around when faced with a committed well coached team, that has a superior strategy and is able to dictate matchups.
We did not have the right plan in this series against this team. That was painfully evident in game 1. I don’t know how you don’t match up Richards against the Krejci line and tell that line that their only job is to keep that line off the scoresheet, but in one of the most head scratching moves all season, Lavvy didn’t.
People always talk about needeing guys to step up when you’ve lost good players, but that’s a pretty big cliche. I guarantee you that everyone expected Chris Pronger to be his mighty self, and I don’t care who you are… when your future first round hall of fame defenseman isn’t able to play due to injury, it takes the wind out of your sails big time. In the playoffs is when you really need your depth players — your Nodl’s and Shelleys, and maybe some AHL’er that you can inject and get a boost. We didn’t have much luck there unfortunately.
I really hated to see Jeff Carter out there playing, because it was clearly a hail-mary attempt to inject some confidence back into the team, and provide a spark for the other people, and he just wasn’t physically able to do more than what he did, while at the same time risking re-injury. That tells you all you need to know about the desperation and lack of any sort of fall back plan. If this was the regular season, there is no way Jeff Carter would have been back this game. Quite frankly when I saw he was playing, my thoughts were — “we’re cooked, and watch Lavvy break up the one line that was cooking”, and that’s exactly what he did. By the time he realized that didn’t work, the game was already out of reach.
I’m am absolutely sick of hearing about all our centers. Jeff Carter is a pure center. If he’s not playing center, then you know that something is wrong.
I’d rather Briggy, but yeah Thats another answer. I cant see them keeping bobs though if they sign a star goalie. Thats more then a slap in the face to Bobs.
Samesis
Not at all, Bob is a rookie, and wasn’t even expected to make the roster this year. This was a great year for Bob and he will continue to improve.
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by Geoff Detweiler on May 4, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Duh. Sorry.
$4.25 million. We get rid of Carcillo, Zherdev, Leighton and that appears to be workable. I kinda want to keep Zherdev. Am I alone in that?
Leino is a terrific play maker, and damn good on the power play. He’s been one of the most consistent Flyers through both series. Skills like his are something you don’t find every day, and you certainly shouldn’t let him go.
With Z, I’d love to see the Flyers pull their head out of their asses and figure out a way to keep him, but I don’t see it happening with Lavvy behind the bench.
First off Leino had to play his way onto the PP after our marquee PP became horrible.
There are two guys on the team that are trusted to lug the puck the majority of the time — Giroux and Leino. That is not an accident.
The problem is that those guys need people to distribute the puck to, and we just haven’t had those people show up with any consistency.
Think there’s any chance we get Simon back?
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
I think I’d take Zherdev or Leino over Gagne for $2mil at this point. Gagne’s best days are behind him. Though if he signs a one-day contract and retires as a Flyer in a few years I’ll be thrilled
What is Z getting this year? I know Leino is pretty low
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
Thanks. Z should cost about the same next year. Leino will go up a bit
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
Honestly, can’t really say I want him back. Unless he took a ridiculous pay-cut (I’m talking somewhere in the ballpark of $1m-1 year) I just think that his injury history has caught up to him and he cannot be counted on to be a consistent contributor to the line up. That is not the kind of player we need right now.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on May 5, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I still think Bob will be a very good goalie in this league, but I just don’t think he’s ready to be a #1 guy yet
Fighter of the Nightman.
Champion of the Sun.
I don’t want Bob to start but let him be in the competition and the favorite for backup.
Truthfully I know people would be upset about another retread but I would prefer Emery if you have to choose between him and giving up a ton for some other guy who’s not elite. Emery will at least show you some pure emotion in a tough situation and you’ll feel along with him instead of wondering if the team cares. I don’t like Boucher’s attitude and I never have.
I want Boosh and Leighton out of the system completely by whatever means possible. We need to do some housecleaning and it doesn’t stop with them.
i trust Bob. I do. Give him 82 games to start, I think he’ll figure this hockey thing out.
Eagles next starting QB: "East-West Shrine Game Legend" Mike Kafka
Flyers: Bob
Phillies:Gah enough with the injuries!.
Though 82 games is a lot. He’ll need a night off now and then. But still, I believe in Bob.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Someone tell G about this
I guess if I have to be named after a drunk driver, being named Pelle isn't so bad.
by Pronger? I don't even know her! on May 4, 2011 10:46 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks
I wish I had a digital copy of the book Full Spectrum on hand so I could cut and paste a quote relevant to tonight’s affair.
The 1984-85 Flyers were the youngest team in the league with an average age below 25, a young goalie who had yet to prove himself as a starter (Pelle Lindbergh), and a rookie head coach (Mike Keenan). They surprised the league by finishing with the best record in the regular season and going to the finals, losing to Edmonton in five games.
The following season was supposed to be the year the Flyers won the Cup. They had a great start to the season and were already cruising by early November. Then, Pelle died. The team bonded, worked hard, continued to beat everyone’s expectations of them, and finished with the second-best record in the league (and the best record in the Wales Conference).
In the first round of the playoffs, the Flyers drew the Rangers who couldn’t score but had a red-hot young goalie named John Vanbiesbrouck. The first round was a best-of-five series, and it was tied at two games apiece going back to the Spectrum for game 5. The Flyers did the best they could, but Vanbiesbrouck was not to be denied and the Rangers pulled a major upset.
Rick Tocchet remembered sitting in the locker room after the game. I am going to quote (as best I remember) what he said. Obviously, he was very disappointed that the team was knocked out of the playoffs so early. However, looking back on the wild ride of the 1984-85 playoffs and the roller-coaster season that was 1985-86, he put things into perspective… “There had been a lot of pressure on us for a long time… [even though I was upset that we lost] I remember thinking, ‘At least it’s over.’”
What disappointed me about tonight was that the Flyers played like they wanted this season to end. Clearly they were out of gas, and as Travis said above, it’s easy to understand why. I would have liked to see more fight in them, don’t get me wrong. But at this point I just don’t think they have anything left to give.
Silver lining: Much like the debacle of 2006-07, this early exit will force the team to address its weaknesses.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Cole Hamels didn’t say “I just wanna go home.” He was having a frustrating season and was looking forward to a fresh start.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I should have started a new comment with that line. Their having nothing left in the tank is not a weakness, it’s just a fact of life. Sorry about the confusion.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
You’re talking about a different era. That was the era where you could clutch and grab your way to a championship, or certainly a series, and refs put their whistles away once the playoffs started. I have a hard time taking anything from that era and applying it to this one, because the game is so completely different. You’re also taking about the most extreme scenario possible where one of your teammates dies tragically. The emotional exhaustion involved in something like that happening to someone is just entirely different.
I realize that Pelle’s death is a bit of an extreme example, but that story came to mind as a counterpoint to the folks on here who were saying that “Professional athletes are paid to have something left in the tank and can never run out of gas.”
The “pressure” that Tock was talking about was the pressure to win the Cup, to prove that 1984-85 was no fluke, to prove that the team was greater than any one player. The pressure came from their coach, from the media, from the fans, and from the team itself.
Does that sound familiar?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
But there’s huge pressure in most of the big markets. Let’s say we had a healthy Nodl, Pronger and Carter playing right now, everything else the same. I think the situation might be quite a bit different. You need some luck to win a cup, and ours ran out. I’ve already outlined some of the significant issues for me, and things I think were huge mistakes. I’d be a lot more likely to see those as the major contributing factors.
I’m not discounting bad luck or mistakes as reasons why the Flyers are losing. In fact, that IS why they’re losing. The exhaustion only explains why it looks like they’re not trying to fight past all of that.
So the injuries, the bad luck, the mistakes, the pressure, the lack of talent in some areas + exhaustion = what we’re seeing now.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
But Pelle’s death isn’t the only thing in there that’s exhausting.
I don’t have the book Mike is referencing from, but I can cite a different source. If you ever read the biography they did on Pelle Lindbergh, there’s emphasis on how much the players hated Keenan, and how the team basically had to unite against him in order to survive under his regime. Even without Pelle’s accident, that locker room was going to be completely mentally drained by season’s end.
What I’m getting at is that there can be more than one factor that causes exhaustion in that situation, it’s not just because somebody died.
If exhaustion is the case with this team, we don’t know what the source of the trouble is. But in 86 we know that there was more than one source.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 4, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
One of my all-time favorite quotes re: Keenan came from my all-time favorite Flyer, Dave Poulin:
“Human nature wants comfort… you wanted to win just to shut [Keenan] up.”
There was one heated team meeting in 1987-88 where Poulin thought Keenan was going to challenge him to a fight. Lindsay Carson whispered to Poulin, “Go for it!”
Yep. They had no love for Keenan.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Think Laviolette is tiring them out at all?
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Physically and mentally, yes.
I’ll admit I’ve been worried ever since that .GIF we all love so much of Lavy punching Leino in the helmet. It wasn’t so much that as it was the looks on Leino and JvR’s faces, like “Is this guy serious?”
I would normally be quicker to defend Laviolette, but he’s done such a shitty job of coaching in the playoffs that I cannot. I feel like the successes we’ve had in the post-season are more due to the leaders on the ice.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Now I think we’re on to something, but I’ve not been a fan of a lot of Lavvy decisions going on 2 years now.
hoping to sweet baby jesus that he’s gone
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on May 5, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Do I think he’s tiring them out? Probably.
Do I think he’s created the kind of regime that made the players miserable 24/7 like Keenan? No.
Do I think Homer might be tiring them out as much or more than Lavy? Possibly. Homer was the first really call them out to the media and put them under public scutiny for lack of effort. How much was he harping on them before he went to the papers, or how much has he been pushing Lavy to make decisions he wouldn’t otherwise make? We’ll never know, but even though I’m speculating, I think he’s possibly involved somehow.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 5, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve got nothing. Neither do the Flyers, apparently. /sigh
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
At least we’re not fans of the Washington Capitals.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Or the Washington Nationals, for that matter.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Yeah, Washington sucks! /s, sort of
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
My ex-fiancee is from there, and I think she lives there again. So yes, it sucks.
Except for Ben.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I’m going to the Nationals-Phillies game. I can’t wait to yell jeers in John Lannan’s face. Fuck that guy.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
Too much dead weight on Tim Thomas.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
Thomas is 13-for-17 against the Flyers in his career. So I guess the fat jokes don’t work with him, ever.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I wouldn’t. We don’t want anything to do with that contract: 2 more years, 5M cap hit, full NTC/NMC through the end of next season. Oh and it’s a 35+ contract. So if he has a bad spell in that 2 year period, we can’t get him off the cap unless he’s legitimately injured or we find a way to trade him. If we managed to waive him and send him to the AHL, which would require his permission, his $5M against the cap would become $4.9M against the cap. You get a measly 100K in cap relief when you send a 35+ contract to the minors, the rest counts against your NHL Cap. And if he retires, it’s just like Lappy, he stays on the cap. We already have Pronger and Lappy under 35+ contracts, I don’t want to take on another big one.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 5, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t care. I’ll make fat jokes if I wanna. ;-) He’s a fat, fat, fatty. I don’t care if he’s killing us. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s still fat.
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I just think athletes should be in better physical condition. It’s a prejudice of mine. I hate athletes on my own team that are fat.
Now, in any other walk of life? Eat away, my friends!
Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.
I think athletes need to perform. Thomas does that & he weight “problem” sure as hell doesn’t seem to be a problem.
I know its not over, but I’ve come to terms that at least this years offseason will be fun. We have space, and roster spots to fill. And needs, I guess.
Samesis
We have space
Not really. 18 players currently signed, and $430k in cap space. I know the cap is supposedly going up, but it won’t go up enough to make offseason decisions easy.
Mourning Gagne forever.
They can make their decisions a teensy bit easier by ridding themselves of Pat Faulkner and Uncle Five-Hole.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Well, they waived Walker so he’s not even against their cap. Leighton can just be traded to someone for a draft pick to be named never. I’m sure someone would want him around for a season just in case of injury or something.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
So you think management will be happy to leave him in the Phantoms? I looked at some stage and $1.7 million could buy the entire roster of some AHL teams.
Mourning Gagne forever.
Yes, I have been sitting on Capgeek for the last half hour trying to figure out what the Flyers options for next season are. So far, it has been impossible to fit everyone in and find a goalie (that could actually be a #1) that we can afford.
What is so discouraging is that the team we had this season was special. They had amazing depth of which they will in no way be able to afford next season. With the end of this season, the window is closing very quickly, if it has not closed already.
I don’t want to make it sound like the Flyers cannot win the Stanley Cup next season but it will be very difficult unless there are some unexpected wonderful surprises (i.e. the AHL players that get thrown into the deep, end adjust quickly and contribute consistently).
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on May 4, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think next season is the Flyers’ last shot for a couple of years. I have faith that they’ll find a way to make things work. But after next year, we’ll have a good-but-not-great team for a few seasons.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
It is just hard to get away from the idea that the window closed. My rational for why: if this team was incapable of doing it what says a weaker team next year can? Granted, there could be some big moves in the off season and Homer could pull a rabbit from his hat (like he has done with Leino, Pronger and Mezaros) that could completely change my pessimism to optimism (i.e getting a solid starting goalie) but considering the rough salary cap situation we now find ourselves in, I am not holding my breath.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on May 5, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
1. I still believe, it’s not over til its over
2. I SWEAR TO GOD if i see Leighton in a Flyers jersey ever again, I will hurt someone
3. Boosh is a career backup, and yes we all love him dearly, but he is nothing more than that, a backup. The first two goal the flyers were like oh wait this game started at 7 not 730 god damn versus. The defense despite being upgraded in the offseason looked like a bunch of middle schoolers, i know no Pronger but still cmon. So we need a goalie.
4. How long is JVR signed? Cause he should get a richards contract.
5. I’d be hard pressed to find that this team will win a cup when we dont have a true #1 goaile, is that BOB idk yet no one knows, we do need to get an Iggy or someone who can stand between the pipes for the time being and let Bob develop if that is the case.
6. Why should we get rid of Z, i know Lavvy doesn’t like him too much but GET OVER IT DUDE (and I love Lavvy) the guy is an offensive weapon, much better than Carbomb or shelly, and surely nodl is defensively responsible enough to play the fourth line now.
Impossible
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
Welp – don’t know what more to add, other that it feels a lot different now than the similar situation last year. Tampa’s a prime example of how anyone can catch fire and blaze a smoldering path through tough opponents, but I’m not seeing it from the Flyers.
Nevermind that, though – it’s back to the “one game at a time” deal again. One more time Friday: at least Friday. This series isn’t done on paper yet.
I hail from New Sanfranadelphia, apparently.
Here comes the time of year when we all turn to Capgeek and start to try and play backseat GM. I have already been doing for the last half hour or so.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
I’ve decided I’m not ready for that yet. There’s still at least one more game of hockey to be played this season.
Mourning Gagne forever.
I have, playoff beard (which was driving me insane for the last several weeks) is now gone. It took three disposable razors with it.
Regressing to the mean since '81
Is it bad luck (or poor form) to keep your beard after your team is eliminated? I’ve grown attached to mine.
Mourning Gagne forever.
No, quite the contrary. I think that is more than acceptable. You spent all that time growing it, so you might as well keep it. I usually shave mine in anger and frustration after they are eliminated. It was the first thing I did when they lost in the Finals last year. As soon as it was officially announced that Kane had scored, I turned the TV off, walked upstairs and shaved.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on May 5, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I refused to do it up until now. You never want to have to start looking at next year’s prospective team until the season is completely over. But, after tonight, in my mind it really is over. I actually was quite hopeful that with a win tonight, this series was still actually winnable. Now, not so much. Maybe conceding defeat is just my way of detaching to lessen the pain when it actually does end. Pretty sure that is what it is. The roller coaster ride over these last few months have been exhausting and my disappointment in not wining the Cup, when I really thought this was the year, will be crippling so I need to move on quickly and not dwell otherwise I get depressed.
Unfortunately, looking at next years team and the cap situation is equally depressing. I need some alcohol.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on May 5, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, looking at next years team and the cap situation is equally depressing
This is part of the reason I stopped looking at CapGeek. I’ll wait until the sadness of being eliminated has gone before I start dissecting the season.
Mourning Gagne forever.
That is probably a good idea. I should stop now too. Guess I am a glutton for punishment or something, at this point.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on May 5, 2011 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Jussi Jokinen was a name that I found earlier this week
There are some other gems. If I didn’t have an exam tomorrow, I’d defin itely participate in these shenanigans
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on May 5, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Jussi Jokinen stood out to me too. Depending on Leino: If he stays, I think one priority for the off season is to try and find someone who can compliment Richards. Now, what does that look like? I vaguely remember people complaining that Lavy is not using Richards in a way that accentuates his skill set. So, does that me getting someone who can set Richie up or does that mean someone that can play the “checking line” role (if that is even what the Richards line has been) alongside Richards and Nodl like Versteeg. Honestly, I hope Versteeg gets traded. I am not saying that he is a bust or that the Steeg experiment was a failure, I just think that the Flyers can certainly find someone who does what Versteeg has done for much cheaper. If Leino does not stay, there are two options: Carter gets moved up and plays with Hartnell and Briere. Richie moves up to a the line with Giroux and JvR. Then you need to find a third line center to play with Nodl and whoever the other winger is. Or, the second option would be to keep Richie has your “third line” center and plug in a guy like Zherdev or Jokinen on that JvR-Giroux line. Both are good options, if you ask me. It just depends what you are going for.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on May 5, 2011 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Fire Lavvy
Lavvy has got to go. Last season was great and all, but he’s gotta be held responsible for this debacle. Ever since the playoffs started his decision making has been indefensible. The Leighton situation was beyond laughable. And then, the matchups in Game 1. The Briere line was sheltered all year, to great success, and now at the start of round 2 you’re going to go away from everything that got you here? We’ve mentioned many times here how he runs teams into the ground. Is that what happened here? I’m not sure. But I’m not willing to waste another year-the last one before major cap problems start- finding out. Sorry if any of this has been mentioned already, but I didn’t want to put myself through the torture of reading the comments and being reminded of how awful this game was.
Not quite
Blame the GM for not acquiring a decent goalie before this point. Not saying Bob isn’t good, but a team shouldn’t rely on a rookie goaltender for their playoff push, especially one who isn’t proven within the North American farm system already, because this shit happens.
by Hunter Durfee on May 5, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
look at it this way
this team looked flawless coming into this season. With what many thought to be the best defensive unit, and all that new proven offensive talent, imagine all that pressure. Most importantly, imagine it all on a rookie goaltender. This should have never been the situation; you don’t acquire all that talent and leave it up to a question mark in net. You can’t blame lavvy for that and you can’t expect him to know how bob would react in the situation he was put in.
OK, first the good news:
I’m alive, the tornadoes went by and didn’t do damage near me, and the floods so far are not in my area (folks in Memphis aren’t so fortunate). And the doctors even seem to have finally figured out how to treat my allergies (or maybe it’s just the season change).
And I wasn’t in the thread since I had to watch presentations tonight (it is always entertaining reading someone posting about blowing off a paper, since you could be one of my students:-)) Actually, while 2 stunk, 3 were really, really good. Like maybe the students were listening at some point during the term. :-))
Oh wait, you want me to analyze the Flyers now? Ugh, now my good mood fades. :-((
Here’s the deal. I agree with the posts above. Something is out of synch with this team. Not everything. But something. Those that think it is “mainly” goaltending are wrong. Not only that, thanks to the CBA, those that want one of the high dollar goalies aren’t going to get one. The players the Flyers have on-hand must perform, thanks to those long-term (and no-movement) contracts. Those long-term contracts could be dumped in other sports, it would be very, very difficult to do so in the NHL. But if they can’t perform together then things get very tricky, for a very long time (or at least until the next CBA). Blame Homer all you want, or not, the key is, what to do now.
If this was the first year this happened, then maybe I’d give the Flyers a pass. But it isn’t. Doing this in 2008-09 cost the Flyers a coach. I’m guessing it could cost another one next year at the deadline. And that’s not because Lavi is a bad coach, (even though like Geoff I’m furious at some of his moves this past month) but for some reason, the mix of personnel on this team isn’t right. If Lavi were fired, someone else would come in, the players would respond for awhile, and then regress to the mean. The tenure of coaches in the NHL is unusually short in general, but these guys seem to have an even shorter attention span than other teams.
Now, believe it or not, I still think the Flyers could come back. But instead of being overjoyed, I’d actually be relieved, but wary. That would mean that they are switch-flipping, which could be just as bad. They would be truly unreliable by any measure. Then, even if they made it past Tampa Bay (good luck with that), there wouldn’t be any changes (which certainly would have occurred had Jokinen scored on the shootout last year).
Maybe Homer could pull a rabbit out of a hat. Curiously, I don’t think they need more Leinos. Or more Zs. They need more Betts, but with just a bit more skill. And, clearly, they miss Lappy.
Something has to happen. And now, I’ve decided to stomp on the third rail. I love Richards as a player. But all this has happened, in multiple seasons, with multiple coaches, on his watch as captain. Since they can’t fire most of the players, and they probably aren’t going to fire the coach this off-season, it is time to take drastic action. No, I don’t want Pronger wearing the C. He is a useful leader without the C, that true pain in the neck who will get on players “just because.” But I don’t think it would help the Flyers that much to give him a “title” (and the conversations with the refs would be,um, interesting).
No, I think Kimmo should get the C. Because this team really does have a short window. Probably the window is about the length of Kimmo’s remaining contract. So give him the C.
But if Kimmo doesn’t want it, and if Lappy (who might even be my first choice) isn’t coming back, then I have a different suggestion.
Give it to Betts.
Set your JVR in 2011.
Glad to read that you are doing okay! Personal health and safety trumps sports and sports opinions everyday of the week.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
I am so glad you’re okay!
But I will actually discuss the hockey related things you said. At the time, I was a proponent of giving the C to Kimmo when Smith retired and it ended up going to Richie. I know he was the captain in Nashville, do you have any inside perspective on how good of a job he did with that role? I’m not actually advocating stripping Richie of the C right now, but I’d like to know that piece of information anyway.
And I love Blair Betts, but I’m not sure how he’s viewed by the guys in the room. Hypothetically, I think you have a legitimate point if the guys in the room view him with that level of respect. I would love to have Holmstrom get more playing time to see what he’s made of, since he seems to meet your criteria of Betts with more offensive upside; but I really want them to have both Betts and Holmstrom, and not let Betts go once Holmstrom starts seeing regular NHL playing time.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 5, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Finally
I read article after article on what’s wrong with the Flyers, and it’s like it’s taboo to mention the captain’s name in any fashion, negative or positive.
When the entire team is flat and no one mentions anything about the captain, then what has the captain’s role become?
Like you said, this has happened repeatedly on his watch. I think it’s time to change. I love Richards, I really do. But this has been a consistent problem.
You really think a team full of veterans can’t get up for a game unless a 25 year old with some fabric stitched on his sweater cares who has that fabric stitched on their sweaters?
If you’re angry that the team can’t get up for games, why does it matter if Pronger has an ‘A’ on his chest or a ‘C’? Can Sean O`Donnell not speak up because he doesn’t have any extra fabric?
Fans honestly have no idea what being Captain means. It’s infuriating.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t the Captain’s only actual role to be the one guy on the ice who is allowed to talk to the refs after calls? I think the “locker room leader” and “team representative to the media” roles are just stuff fans assume they do. In many cases it does happen to be the same guy. But I don’t think that’s necessarily the Captain’s “job.”
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Exactly.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on May 6, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not hard ...
… to beat a team when they can’t buy a goal and their opponent just has to put the puck on net and has a chance of scoring regardless of shot quality.
You gotta think
That teams that win find a way to get juiced up for games. Teams that don’t, don’t. There’s no way you can say Boston isn’t as mentally and physically drained as the Flyers.
But seriously, the Flyers haven’t been “good” in months. Why is it any different here from the second half of the regular season? Minus Game 7, when have they looked like the team we fell in love with this season?
Also, the Flyers need to figure out what they are. Without Pronger we can’t score? Without Pronger we have no defense? Our immense depth has no scoring talent? Versteeg and Hartnell are invisible? Zherdev rode the bench all year when he plays like this?! These are the issues I want the Flyers to address this offseason. The depth we have… needs to exist, because recently, we’ve looked like a team without any depth. Richards needs to stop being used on defense too.
I mean… it’s a disaster. Carter has to be a Winger. Richards has to be a top-line scoring two-way player, along with Giroux. JVR needs to step up on his own line. Briere will most likely find himself without his linemates… there’s a lot of stuff that will happen here. Hopefully, it is changes that revitalize this team, inject some new juice and ideas, and get them pumped up to play hockey again.
And Pronger should rent an apartment with Andre and Coburn, and teach them how to be a defenseman. So when he goes down, those two can actually replace him, and not flop around uselessly as we find ourselves unable to score.
We were BUILT FOR DEPTH. This is the scenario we were DESIGNED TO DEFEND AGAINST. And we have FAILED MISERABLY.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Well, the Flyers did play one more month of hockey than the Bruins last year. Given Laviolette’s tendencies, I would not be surprised if it a case of a team being drained, mentally and/or physically. I am not saying it definitely is what happened, just I think it is a reasonable possibility.
The Flyers played their fucking asses off in that 7-game series against Buffalo. You don’t even need stats to say that the Flyers skated circles around the Sabres all series long (though stats do back this assertion up). The scoreboard finally reflected that butt-whooping in Game 7, but they were dominant all series and it only went seven games because of Ryan Miller and Brian Boucher’s bad game in Game 5. I’d include Leighton’s just as bad if not worse Game 6, but the Flyers incredibly won that game.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Keep Hope Alive
It’s been frustrating not to have watched the series so far (I have only been able to see game 1 because of the days/times the games have been starting – many of you might say that’s a good thing, but I’d rather see my team play in the playoffs, win or lose).
…sigh…
Well, a few hopes for Friday:
1) Pronger, even if you can only contribute sporadically, please play in game 4 (yes, I know that if you can lace up your skates, you’re going to play – but, I thought I’d say it anyway).
2) Carter, if you have any swelling again after last night’s game (which I’m pretty sure you will), and you can’t go as well as or better in game 4 as you did in game 3, please don’t play. (Unlike some here, I really like Carter – what I hope for the most is that he miraculaously gets better over the next 24-36 hours and is a stud on Friday and any games after that, but, failing that, I’d rather have someone else play.)
3) Lavi, start Bob. There’s no point in waiting. I love Boucher, but the Bruins clearly have his number right now (yes, our defensive woes aren’t helping at all, but they are what they are). He’s got to learn to handle playoff pressure sometime – he did great in game 1 against Buffalo, and, despite game 2 of that series, ought to have been given another shot during this post-season (esp., ahead of Leighton).
4) Rest of team, just win one game. No, this isn’t a plea not to get swept (although I’m thinking that too). I know that if you got a win, you would get back in touch with your mojo. I don’t know if you would imitate what you did last year, but, if you won a game or two, you would rediscover your form (and save a little face as well).
Fortunately, I will be able to watch game 4 (and game 5, if there is one). Flyers, please let me watch hockey into next week. Thank you.
Go Flyers.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on May 5, 2011 3:57 AM EDT reply actions
doubtful pronger will be back this series. if it’s a herniated disc and he’s limping from it, trust me on this one as I have the same problem, there’s no chance he plays.
One of my disc’s is pushing on the nerve that tells my right leg what to do. So when I sit then stand it takes about 7 steps before the nerve is opened up again and tells my leg what to do. No, shot’s would help that with about a 50% success rate. Not nearly a good enough rate. On top of this if he also is getting the stabbing nerve lightning bolts in his crotch (very upper inside legs) then yeah he won’t be back this year at all. and will need surgery in the off season.
You move one way too fast (turtle speed, not even kidding) and you lose complete control of your legs.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
TYPO
No, shot’s would help that
should have been Now, shots would help that
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
I’m sorry you have a herniated disc – that must be a very trying thing to deal with every day. I also hope that Pronger doesn’t have one. If he does, you absolutely right – he won’t be able to play.
I just want our team to win a game, and, if possible, more than one – if they can do that, I can (eventually) adjust to the outcome that seems to be coming. I even believe in miracles.
Still, one step at a time – guys, win a game.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on May 5, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I know I’m out of gas, that’s for sure. Between a couple months of utter hell at work, scrambling to keep my head above water in grad school because I’m too busy at work to even go to class, and watching games like this, I’ve got nothing left. I’m ready for my vacation. I’d love nothing more than to still have the Flyers alive in the playoffs when I get back, but right now I’m just ready to get out of here.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Does anyone else agree that Z deserves another spot???? I mean come on, Lavy hated him for whatever reason…he picked up his play and I think has come around pretty well defensivly, not saying hes is great all of a sudden but i think better than the start. Please trade Hartnell…im tired of watching him be a damn bonehead and falling every 5 seconds…He has not hands, and cant even park himself in front of the net without getting pushed over…Bring up Testiweed (however its spell) he could do the same thing and is making what? 800k? Hartnell should of had a shorter leash than Lupul…Gotta find a way to get Vokoun or Iggy…Bob is the future, they can groom him because they are PROVEN number 1 goalies….Leights and Bouch gone SOD gone Carbomb gone…Shellys contract makes me want to vomit…the Offensive dynamo needs to get more respect from Lavy, another thing that bugs the hell outta me. Play what you got, dont make him sit there…he cant do any worse than the rest of the D…
Can the Flyers make a come back? I dont see it, would I like it? Damn straight, but whatever happens the goalie and whatever problems this team has on O need to be straightened out…This window is closing, the time is now
Also, it was pitiful to watch our guys get thrown like rag dolls whenever a Boston player stepped up to hit them last night. They’re doing to us what we did to Montreal last year. I don’t know what it is. We’re supposed to be the ones that play physical and hit hard. We’re the Broad Street Bullies. Yet we’re the ones being pushed around.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Oh I see the philly blood thirst coming out. I would have turned that game into a fighting embarrassment last night after the 4th goal. It would have been epic. A pound of flesh for your second round pass. But I am archaic like that.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I really don’t think that this team has any connection to that identity anymore. They’re really not physical and they don’t intimidate anyone with that aspect of their game. Even Pronger picks his spots now.
When the best and most consistent hitter on the team is Darroll Powe, you’re not going to scare anyone in the corners.
"We take the shortest route to the puck and arrive in ill humour." -Fred Shero
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