Wednesday Morning Fly By: JetsThrashMoose Could Replace Rock Paper Scissors
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- So the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg... [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy] [Washington Times] [icethetics]
- ...no major networks covered it...[SBNation.com]
- ...and the Thrashers are still selling season tickets for next season: [Puck Daddy] [Deadspin]
- A great post on what that means for Matt: [Bird Watchers Anonymous]
- What this means for SBN: [SBNation.com]
- Frank Seravalli with a great run down of what it means, including a logical realignment proposal: [Frequent Flyers]
- An angry post speaking on some hypocrisies evident in this move: [delcotimes.com]
- Don Waddell, basically the face of hockey in Atlanta, gave some interesting quotes about their failure: [Puck Daddy] [NHL.com]
- The Flyers really like that Tom Sestito guy. Who would have guessed? [Philly Sports Daily]
- Ilya Bryzgalov is surprised to hear the rumor he's deciding between the Flyers and SKA of the KHL. His quote? "I'm surprised. First time I hear about SKA." Clearly, this means he's coming to the Flyers. Or something: [euroflyers]
- Jacob DeSerres completed his journey: [Brandon Sun]
- Will Mark Recchi will retire if the Bruins win the Stanley Cup?: [SBNation.com]
- The 10 oddest places the Stanley Cup has been: [Puck Daddy]
- More calculations also concluding that Jeff Carter is not worth trading for a goalie: [Down Goes Spezza]
- Speaking of Patrick Sharp, you'll be surprised to see what his season grade was: [Second City Hockey]
- Former Flyer Kevin Dineen is now the head coach of the Florida Panthers: [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy]
- Lastly, Chris Pronger was on NHL Live and got caught on a "hot mic" telling a story about a "s**tfaced" Mike Keenan: [Deadspin]
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The Winnipeg Meese.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Jun 1, 2011 7:59 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
“I hate those meeces to pieces!”
For those not old enough to remember this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixie_and_Dixie_and_Mr._Jinks
Sarauj, Latvija!
At least Seravalli’s proposed alignment minimizes the time zone shifts within divisions… under his plan, no division includes more than 2 time zones; while the current Northwest and Pacific divisions are spread across 3.
But that relies on Vancouver being moved which isn’t likely to happen.
I still don’t know why moving Minnesota into the Central vacancy isn’t the easiest solution, despite the complaints of Stars fans. To simply copy and paste what I said over at Defending Big D"
…[Y]ou could keep Colorado in the Northwest with Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg. It’s closer than Minneapolis to all those cities except Winnipeg. And they would only lose a time zone for Vancouver and gain one for Winnipeg, as opposed to Minnesota losing one to Calgary and Edmonton, and two to Vancouver.
I just don’t see why Dallas to the Central automatically makes more sense than Minnesota when that plan : A) increases the amount of time zone differences for the Avs while keeping the travel miles around the same, and B) actually increase the mileage for Dallas as well as the time zone changes.
Also, I think ASF’s article is a little over the top. It’s not like this is the first time a team has been lost or had a really close call due to bad ownership; from what I understand the Nordiques owners practically tried to extort the city to get their new arena, the Sabres had to be taken over by the league when their ownership was a mess and there were rumors of them having to move, the Penguins looked like they would move or fold before the Lemieux takeover, and most notably, the old Jets were searching for a new owner in Winnipeg for several years before they had to relocate but couldn’t find one just like this Atlanta situation. There’s probably a ton of other examples but it’s early and I haven’t had enough coffee yet to come up with more.
I agree, it’s way over the top. First off…this is the second time a team has failed to gain any real following/fan base in Atlanta. To me, that makes it easier to decide to move on. Once is a mistake, twice is a pattern. Not only that, while do agree with ASF that Bettman made a mistake giving Atlanta a team in 1999, I can’t fault the guy for at least owning up to that mistake(though not publicly) by moving them again. I don’t fault someone for correcting a mistake. As transparent as it may be.
As for moving the Thrashers but not the Coyotes…it will probably happen anyway. There are other markets that the Yotes could move to, but I also think if that team continues to have success and get fans to show up then selling them to an owner willing to keep them there is a real possibility. I personally love Phoenix and I think it’s a great place to have pro sports teams, the problem is that it’s such a transient area. I have yet to meet someone that was actually born and raised in that area during any of my multiple trips to Phoenix. But that’s my two cents.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Unlike the Thrashers, the Atlanta Flames only twice had losing records (in their first two seasons of existence), and made the playoffs in six of their eight seasons. However, like the Thrashers, they never won a playoff round. In fact, they played a total of seventeen playoff games, and they only won two.
Their playoff failures drove down ticket sales, even though they had decent teams on occasion. That, combined with Omni Sports Group’s struggles with the rival WHA, ultimately led to the Flames’ sale.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Did you see any of the stuff posted on Puck Daddy lately that dredged up the old news reports from when the Jets left Winnipeg? They’ve all been practically identical to what’s going on in Atlanta… “We made an agreement several years ago to keep the team here while we looked for a new owner, but we’ve exhausted every avenue and there is no one willing to buy this team and keep them here in Winnipeg so we have to let them go”. It’s scarily close to how the Atlanta situation played out.
I think the Coyotes may have helped dig their own grave with all the free tickets and cheap tickets they’ve given out over the last several years; as much as they want to use that stuff to get people hooked on hockey, giving out sooo many might make people say “well why should we pay full price if we know they’ll eventually be discounted again?” I hope I’m wrong, because I’d rather see them survive, but their window to get things on track is narrowing. I think if they don’t get the ownership situation under control by the end of next season, they’ll likely have to move. 3 years of league control will just be too much.
As much as I can’t stand him, I don’t even know how much of an opportunity Bettman would have had to publicly try to save Atlanta. The city said right off the bat “We won’t help you, so we’re sorry to see you go but you’re free to leave”. Once the city government said they didn’t care, what would a public showing by Bettman have done?
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 1, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s the biggest thing: Phoenix stepped up to keep them, Atlanta didn’t. Phoenix is willing to lose money to keep them there, Winnipeg is willing to lose money to have a team, Atlanta isn’t.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 1, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I like the Sharp article Geoff very good would of given him a b- though simply due to his stats but I see your point.
by ryanitus on Jun 1, 2011 2:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Revisionist history
You can certainly make the claim that the Thrashers did not develop a fan base. Given the number of transplants in Atlanta (including moi in 1999) that’s on the ownership groups: Turner didn’t care that much and would shortly lose his empire, Spirit was completely incompetent.
However, you CANNOT make the same assertion about the Flames leaving. At the time, Atlanta was MUCH smaller than it is today (less than 1/3 of its current size in the metro). Yet, the Flames were still profitable (although ticket sales had slumped in the previous couple of years)! And it had a pretty strong base, given that Atlanta was the first foray of hockey in the South – maybe even stronger than the Thrashers, despite the size of ATL at the time. 1980 Atlanta simply did not have the gazillionaire base it does now, and Calgary offered Tom Cousins an offer he could not confuse (if I remember correctly, Cousins was also suffering from the impending real estate crisis of the early 1980s), $16 mlllion, the largest price to date for an NHL franchise (recall that CBS sold the Yankees for like $18 million a few years earlier). Done.
If the Flyers had had the same ownership groups, and had not won the Stanley Cup, they might be in Portland now (Maine or Oregon, your choice).
This is my Cerberus .sig, while the regular one is on the DL.
I find the Thrashers situation fascinating in how it not only affects the fans, but so many others. As Travis pointed out with the screen shots, none of the major networks picked up the story…. and this is on the eve of the Finals! I would think that the major networks would at least have a link to the story, even if it’s buried on the right hand side and there’s more hockey talk now than during the regular season. Maybe not more talk, but more people following hockey because of the playoffs.
I hope that Matt and everyone at BWA can still enjoy the NHL but can understand the bitterness that they might feel now.
The Thrashers name was picked by Ted Turner himself. The Thrasher is a Georgia “state bird.” I had lived in Georgia for 9 years at the time of the Thrashers start, and had never heard of this, neither had anyone else I knew. Ted was in his “peace” phase and I don’t think wanted to have a violence connection.
This is my Cerberus .sig, while the regular one is on the DL.
Their common name describes the behaviour of these birds when searching for food on the ground: they use their long bills to “thrash” through dirt or dead leaves. All of these birds eat insects and several species also eat berries.
How intimidating.
Their nickname describes the behaviour of these hockey players when battling for the puck along the boards: they use their long sticks to “thrash” through ice shavings or opposing players’ ankles. All of these players eat crow every April, although several species also have consumed champagne while on other teams (i.e., A. Laddus, D. Byfugliensis).
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Jun 1, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Since Ted no longer has his say in these things, let’s take the historical angle and call the new team The Winnipeg Grenadiers.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Need to move PHX back to Hartford. Bring back the WHALE and we can have some normalcy. But that isn’t going to happen.
To realign I think Columbus should come up EAST the Islanders should got NorthEast and the and maybe OTTAWA SE get all the Canadian teams out of the same division maybe more will make the playoffs. Or the Islanders can go SE. OHIO PITTSBURGH is a good rivalry from a college sports prospective.
Or you can send the Devils to the SE and rename the division the No Fans Division.
Good luck building a solid fanbase in Columbus with some many games airing at 10pm not a good idea for a small market team that needs to bring in youth to grow up with the sport. I am pretty sure 6th graders aren’t staying up till 1am to watch the end of the game.
Nah, if you going to give them back to a WHA city just for the sake of normalcy, then they might as well give them back to Quebec City. At least the government is planning to build them a new arena.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 1, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Need to move
PHXCarolina back to Hartford. Bring back the WHALE and we can have some normalcy.
Fixed.
Also, God no.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Well, yeah. But Carolina’s turned into a hell of a hockey market.
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 1, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
HA!!! I agree with both the PSD article saying the team is high on Sestito, AND the DGS article stating we should trade Hartnell and not Carter. Sestito can be Hartnell, but not fall down as much. The only real loss would be to Locks of Love. Problem solved (savings of around $3 million a season).
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
Seravalli
*Remove the seeding of division winners for playoffs
That’s dumb, sorry. You ought to have a reward for winning your division. It’s not like having division winners get one of the top-3 seeds is preventing other more qualified teams from making the playoffs, which used to happen in the old divisional playoff format that everyone loved so much except Flyers fans in the early 1990s.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
If you don’t feel like clicking the links, they show how the Flyers would have made the playoffs in 1991 and 1992 had the league used its current Conference-seeding system. They’d have been the 8th seeds in those years, but they’d have made it.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I like the idea of removing seeding of division winners. Why should a team who wins a shit division get a higher seed over someone who comes in 2nd in a tougher division?
Straight points across the board.
I also think we should get rid of the SO since it’s a disgrace to hockey but whatever.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
The PD article about where the Cup went reminds me of those old commercials “How I spent my day with the Stanley Cup.”
I loved those. Especially the one with Brett Hull in a parking lot, trying to unlock his car door with a coat hanger, with the Stanley Cup inside.
This is my favorite Stanley Cup story:
(Montreal 1924) On their way to a party to celebrate their championship, the car carrying the cup gets a flat tire. The players set the Cup at the side of the road while changing the tire. Once the tire was changed they promptly left, forgetting the Cup. Upon arriving they realize they have forgotten the guest of honour, return to the scene of the flat and find the Cup sitting exactly where they had left it.
Sarauj, Latvija!
I don’t remember the commercials, but did you ever read the book of all ‘my day with cup’ stories? I found it at my library last year, and it was hilarious.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 1, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
what is the title of the book (and who is it by, if you remember)? because this sounds awesome. thanks!
The book, which I think is out of print, is called “Why is the Stanley Cup in Mario Lemiuex’s Swimming Pool?” I had to look up the author, which was Kevin Allen, but here’s Amazon’s page for the book.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 1, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Any opinions on what has to happen or what Sestito has to do to have a legit shot to make the big club?
I have a feeling car bomb is not coming back and homer just doesn’t wanna let the cat out of the bag and trade him before word gets out. Sestito I have a good feeling will only have to out play Rinaldo for a roster spot. He plays to different of a role to compete with Reade, Holmstrom etc…
I think his shot is really good.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Sources tell TSN Colin Campbell is giving up role as NHL disciplinarian. Brendan Shanahan will likely take over.
http://twitter.com/#!/DarrenDreger/status/75951412433002497
:O
Will I ever get to where I'm going?
If I do, will I know when I am there?
Sucks to be Brendan Shanahan.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jun 1, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
So with Gabe taking over the new Winnipeg blog that Behind The Net is done? No more advanced hockey stats blog? All you numbers and stats geeks must be very sad. My condolences.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
Yeah, I’m worried.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 1, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He claims the league-wide coverage won’t drop at all. I wish they’d just keep both sites running and he’d hand off some of the BTN action to others, but I doubt he’d trust it to be run in his stead.
Yeah. Bettman’s Nightmare is technically the Manager of the site, so I’d rather Gabe just start a new one and BtN stay. But… you know.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 1, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s all about who you know, Geoff. Get Travis to use his SB Nation sway and make it happen haha.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jun 1, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
They might have to actually watch games now.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
Funny.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 1, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Rumor has it that Mike Richards is at the French Open.
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Jun 1, 2011 12:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Teaching Rafael Nadal what it means to be greartchulent.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Jun 1, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don Waddell
From Puck Daddy:
The tenure of Waddell, the first general manager in team history and then its president of hockey operations, who said he’s not moving with the Thrashers and isn’t sure what the next step in his career will lead him.
Well, I guess not. I encourage you to form a support group with Angelo Mozilo, Rick Wagoner, Al Dunlap, and Kevin McClatchy. Your Facebook page could have a .gif of Herbert Hoover and/or Harry Frazee
This is my Cerberus .sig, while the regular one is on the DL.
Tornado watch in place for my area for this afternoon/evening. I feel like I am living in Oklahoma now.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I’m back from my vacation. What the fuck is up with this heat? I knew coming home was a bad plan…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Same here. And my wife can’t stand the cold winters here. She wants to move to NC to get away from them. I can’t even imagine what August is like there, given how bad it is in MD.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
my aunt lived in Maiden for years, summers were 100+ almost all of august 95+ july and late june. It was horrible, I got 2nd degree sun poisoning on my back,chest,face,neck,arms and stomach in 20 minutes when I was 14 while visiting them. I couldn’t sleep for 2 weeks.
Too hot fuck that.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Haha, nobody in my family likes the heat very much. A couple of years ago I was away on vacation, and my mom called me up and was like “I hate you right now…”, and in the midst of my what-the-hell reaction, she went on to explain that she was talking about the weather. It was well over 100 degrees in South Jersey, but a beautiful 85 degrees and low humidity in Montreal :) Seriously, vacationing in Canada is a great way to escape the heat.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 1, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and to talk some hockey, I’m disappointed in this Finals matchup. Vancouver winning is boring since they ran away with the regular season, and Chicago was the only one who came even close to challenging them in the playoffs. And I don’t want Boston to win because of, as Travis said, the annoying fans and the fact that it trumps our 3-0 comeback. San Jose would have been much more intriguing, because it would have led to speculation over whether Nabokov was really the reason they kept shitting the bed in the playoffs every year. Now we’ll never know.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I put little blame on Nabby, year after year he held his own, if there are two main ppl to blame it’s Joe Thornton, he dominates the regular season then he chows quiet, and I’d share part two with Heatley and Marleau, Marleau goes from beast mode to a second thought game in and game out and Heatley just plain and simple can’t get it done for SJ. Pavelski, Setoguchi, Clowe are playoff steady players.
by ryanitus on Jun 1, 2011 4:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nabokov’s last three playoffs:
07-08: 6-7, 0.907 Sv%
08-09: 2-4, 0.890 Sv%
09-10: 8-7, 0.907 Sv%
Thornton’s last four playoffs:
07-08: 13 GP, 2 G, 8 A
08-09: 6 GP, 1 G, 4 A
09-10: 15 GP, 3 G, 9 A
10-11: 18 GP, 3 G, 14 A
That’s 0.85 ppg for Thornton over the last four years, and a 0.907 Sv% for Nabokov.
Heatley scored 13 points in 14 games in 09-10, 9 points in 18 games in 10-11.
Marleau scored 0.73 ppg the last four years.
All four perform worse in the playoffs than the regular season, but the one you blame the most is still a 0.85 point per game player. That’s not a choker, nor is it a disappearing act. Evgeni Nabokov is an average goalie, Joe Thornton is a very good player, Patrick Marleau is a very good goal scorer, and Danny Heatley performed well last year.
Picking any of them out for blame is buying into the narrative that has been presented, which is more convenient than accurate.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 1, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed Geoff, but I mean looking at that roster and saying in the playoffs who was most disappointing it’s Joe Thornton by a long shot he’s had one good postseason with the Sharks, others have carried the team past the first rounds.
looking at that roster and saying in the playoffs who was most disappointing it’s Joe Thornton by a long shot
So you’re just looking to the most important/best player? This year, I think it’s obvious that Devin Setoguchi and Douglas Murray were the biggest disappointments.
In 08-09, I think it’s obviously Evgeni Nabokov, Jonathan Cheechoo, and Marc-Eduard Vlasic.
In 07-08, I think it’s obviously Devin Setoguchi and Matt Carle.
he’s had one good postseason with the Sharks
Thornton led his team in points three of the last four years. He’s won 52.7% or more of his faceoffs in each of the last four years. He’s consistently faced average to tough competition each year, with average to poor teammates, continuously drives the play better than his teammates, and does it while getting around 15 minutes of ES time per game.
others have carried the team past the first rounds.
Who? And how?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 1, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
So you’re just looking to the most important/best player?
Exactly, which is why we should trade Jeff Carter.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Thanks for the support but Carter is neither our best or most important player. I’d say Richards, Giroux, Pronger all are more important and individually I think Giroux is our best player.
by ryanitus on Jun 2, 2011 6:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Setoguchi I disagree with you completely, Clowe, Boyle, Pavelski and Marleau all have been good in the playoffs. I’m saying for the star player he’s known as Joe Thornton does not play at his best in the playoffs and that can’t happen from your teams captain.
by ryanitus on Jun 2, 2011 6:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Setoguchi scored 7 goals, 3 assists in 18 games and was a minus-7. He went from scoring 2.00 pts/60 this season to 0.71 pts/60 this postseason.
This is the guy who was good? But Thornton, who continually plays tough competition and puts up points is a goat because he “does not play at his best”? He puts up more points than the rest of the team, while playing first-line competition, and controlls the play better than any Shark, despite getting poor zone starts.
You’re criticizing Thornton because he’s the Captain, despite what he does on the ice. What does he have to do for you to say he’s not to blame?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 3, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Would love to see Sestito on our 4th or third lines this season. He’s bigger than Carcillo, more offensively talented and seems to play a smarter game and he will make less money.
by ryanitus on Jun 1, 2011 2:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
James Mirtle on the salary cap:
Assuming the cap hits $63.5-million next season (a safe bet), here’s a chart of the cap and floor since lockout.

@Mitchman88 on Twitter
I hope not… I made a bet that it wouldn’t be more than $63.49 million next year…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 1, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 1, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions

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