Comparing the 2010-11 Flyers VUKOTA Projections With Results
In August and September, everyone in the hockey world likes their team's chances for the upcoming season. This is the year a player breaks out, or this player will rebound from a down season, or that player will be great for one more season. Entering camp, everybody is an optimist since you never know what's going to happen.
But that doesn't mean there isn't a way to predict what's going to happen, as baseball's PECOTA system proves to us. So for the past two seasons, Hockey Prospectus has released a projection system called VUKOTA as their answer to Baseball Prospectus' PECOTA system. Here at Broad Street Hockey, we've looked at these for each of the last two seasons, checking in along the way.
After the 2009-10 season, we concluded that the projections seemed accurate, but the results were outliers after looking at each individual player's past. So how about this year?
All tables are sortable by column.
| Name | GP | G | Pts | Pts/82 | GP | G | Pts | Pts/82 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Blair Betts | 62.1 | 6.3 | 13.9 | 18.4 | 75 | 5 | 12 | 13.1 |
| Danny Briere | 65.2 | 22.5 | 53.0 | 66.7 | 77 | 34 | 68 | 72.4 |
| Dan Carcillo | 63.7 | 9.1 | 20.6 | 26.5 | 57 | 4 | 6 | 8.6 |
| Jeff Carter | 77.4 | 35.8 | 69.9 | 74.1 | 80 | 36 | 66 | 67.7 |
| Claude Giroux | 69.8 | 19.6 | 51.3 | 60.3 | 82 | 25 | 76 | 76.0 |
| Scott Hartnell | 71.7 | 20.2 | 48.9 | 55.9 | 82 | 24 | 49 | 49.0 |
| Ville Leino | 53.9 | 10.1 | 25.0 | 38.0 | 81 | 19 | 53 | 53.7 |
| Darroll Powe | 60.4 | 8.7 | 16.7 | 22.7 | 81 | 7 | 17 | 17.2 |
| Mike Richards | 77.3 | 30.1 | 71.6 | 76.0 | 81 | 23 | 66 | 66.8 |
| Jody Shelley | 50.3 | 2.5 | 7.4 | 12.1 | 58 | 2 | 4 | 5.7 |
| James van Riemsdyk | 72.8 | 18.7 | 40.9 | 46.1 | 75 | 21 | 40 | 43.7 |
On the left are the projections for games played (GP), goals (G), points (Pts), and points per 82 games (Pts/82). To the right are the actual results.
Just like last year, we see that the biggest flaw in VUKOTA is their method of predicting the number of games each player will miss. Once again, the Flyers were relatively healthy (nine of the team's eleven project-able players hit 75 games), so VUKOTA's projecting poor health was a problem.
But the system did have some pretty accurate predictions, specifically the predictions for van Riemsdyk, Carter, and Briere. It came close with Betts, Hartnell, and Powe, while it missed Giroux, Leino, Richards, Carcillo, and Shelley. Not exactly great results, but excuses can be made - including the small sample sizes of Leino's career to that point and Richards' injury - so let's try and identify the problem.
As we did prior to the season, let's compare the projections to the players' point per game rates of the last three years:
| Name | 08-09 | 09-10 | VUKOTA | 10-11 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Betts | 0.12 | 0.29 | 0.22 | 0.16 |
| Briere | 0.86 | 0.71 | 0.81 | 0.88 |
| Carcillo | 0.19 | 0.29 | 0.32 | 0.11 |
| Carter | 1.02 | 0.82 | 0.90 | 0.82 |
| Giroux | 0.64 | 0.57 | 0.73 | 0.93 |
| Hartnell | 0.73 | 0.54 | 0.68 | 0.60 |
| Leino | 0.69 | 0.20 | 0.46 | 0.65 |
| Powe | 0.18 | 0.24 | 0.28 | 0.21 |
| Richards | 1.01 | 0.76 | 0.93 | 0.81 |
| Shelley | 0.06 | 0.16 | 0.15 | 0.07 |
| van Riemsdyk | -- | 0.45 | 0.56 | 0.53 |
What do we see? Briere had his best year of the last three seasons, which wasn't predicted. Carter repeated last year's performance rather than improve as predicted, Giroux went from being the fourth highest point per game player to the highest, Richards didn't rebound like he was expected, and Leino played like his 13-game debut rather than what got him thrown out of Detroit.
What's this mean? Well, there are obviously still flaws. But to say predictions are useless ignores how close VUKOTA gets. The misses came on players who are on the fourth line (Carcillo and Shelley), had breakout years (Giroux and Leino), or have no heart played through a wrist injury all season (Richards). Maybe that's too many excuses to make for a projection system, but it wasn't bad. Consider:
Team Predictions With Results
- Not a single Flyer was expected to breach the point-per-game ratio this year. Correct. Claude Giroux came the closest, with 0.93. HIT
- Only Carter and Richards were expected to hit 25 goals, though Briere would hit 28 over a full season. Predicting three 25 goal scorers... you get three 25 goal scorers. But Richards only hit 23 while Giroux hit 25. Hartnell hit 24, one more than predicted. HIT
- Only three players (Betts, Laperriere, and Shelley) were expected to see their points per game ratio decrease from last year. Betts and Shelley did decrease, but so did Powe and Carcillo. Predicting fourth line production has proven to be difficult for VUKOTA, and there's really no good explanation for predicting Powe to score 0.28 points per game. CLOSE
- Claude Giroux was expected to have a pretty big breakout year, going to 0.735 points per game, up from 0.573. He did in fact have a pretty big breakout year, but it was even bigger than predicted. MISS
- This group - including Zherdev - was expected to score 207.1 goals. Even without Laliberte and Laperriere's 8.9 goals, the group combined to score 216. CLOSE
- As a group, the Flyers could expect their defensemen to chip in 38.7 goals. Here's a big miss. The Flyers defensemen only contributed 22 goals, with Coburn and Carle accounting for half (9) of the difference in performance. Timonen and Pronger missed the mark by a combined six goals, and there's the majority of your problem. MISS
- GVT saw the Flyers scoring the same amount of goals as last year, while VUKOTA saw the Flyers scoring 254. But normalizing for the league numbers, VUKOTA agrees with GVT, predicting 237 goals. Without the normalization, VUKOTA would have nailed it - actual 256 goals for. But it did normalize, so... MISS
So there you have it. VUKOTA still has a lot of work to do - particularly in predicting games played and on defense - but it absolutely has predictive value. How much is a legitimate debate, but the results are there.
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Can hardly blame VUKOTA for getting defencemen goal predictions wrong; that statistic is highly variable.
Does he call it Luongo underwear?
Co-Manager at Behind the Net
by Bettman's Nightmare on Jun 17, 2011 1:12 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 17, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Two things that scream at me from those tables
1) Holy shit, Giroux is awesome.
2) Leino isn’t as bad as everyone makes him sound, at least offensively.
But, more importantly, 1) Holy shit, Giroux is awesome.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
1) Giroux really is awesome.
2) I think people are more concerned with Leino’s inability to play defense and the fact that he’s constantly sheltered in the offensive zone. Plus, I’m assuming these projections were based on the few regular season games Leino played with us last year, which isn’t really a fair base to go from.
by mantis toboggan on Jun 17, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
They were mostly off his career to date, as he was projected to hit 0.46 ppg, right in-between his debut with Detroit and his disastrous 09-10 season.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 17, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, right. Still, based on his career as a cog that didn’t fit.
by mantis toboggan on Jun 17, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, I agree, he’s not great at defense. But let’s not pretend he’s the only one on the team who falls under that category. Would an upgrade to someone a little more two-way make me happy? Sure. But at times this year I thought the hate piled on him was a bit much… Probably just me. :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
But at timesthis yearafter the season I thought the hate piled on him was a bit much
Fixed. And I think Leino did just fine considering – we don’t ask Briere to play defensively, so why is it fair to ask that of Leino? If he’s not defensive, he just isn’t – and we can choose to keep him on the roster or not, but that’s what we’ll get.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 18, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that in my case, some if it was overlap with real life. A couple fans I know down here were big Leino fans, with at least one of them saying he was a good two-way forward. That kind of rolled over to here, where it’s easier (and more socially acceptable) to pull out all the evidence for how Ville is an almost purely offensive player. Sure, we have other defensive liabilities (coughBrierecough), but most fans acknowledge that they’re liabilities. It was the hype machine that drove me nuts on Leino.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jun 20, 2011 12:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

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