Keep Carter and Sign Bryz
Ok, so as we all know the Flyers are trying to negotiate a deal with Ilya Brzgalov before July 1st which is when he hits the free agent market. We also all know that with only $430,845 we will not be able to sign Bryzgalov and resign enough RFA and UFA to make up the rest of our team even if the cap does manage to go up to around $63 million for next season.
At the minute, the odd man out seems to be Jeff Carter, who everyone is suggesting will be traded in order to be able to sign Bryzgalov. Before the Flyers acquired Bryzgalov's rights I remember reading here a suggestion to trade someone like Versteeg or Hartnell to the Islanders for Nabokov. Personally I would have been elated if this type of deal had been made because Nabokov's coming to the end of his career, wants to win a championship, would be a great mentor for Bob and he's dirt cheap. But I'll get back to why this is important in a minute.
Since Scott Howson said that he was open to anything to do with the 8th overall pick there has been speculation that the Flyers could trade Jeff Carter to Columbus for that pick (possible others as well) and a player. This would make sense since the Flyers don't have a draft pick in the first two rounds this year and don't have enough young talent in the farm system. This deal would seem to make sense but if we lost Jeff Carter just to sign Bryzgalov I would be livid. Although he gets a lot of stick he is an elite goal scorer and it won't be easy to replace his production if he's gone. So, back to the bit about Versteeg and Hartnell. I propose that we trade Versteeg and Hartnell to Columbus for the 8th overall pick, Jakub Voracek (who I only really thought about thanks to Flyersfan94's post a couple days ago) and whatever other picks you guys think we could get with that. I'm not too good at judging pick value since I've only been a fan of Hockey for two seasons. Yes we would be giving up two 40 point scorers this season but Voracek has been a consistent 40 point scorer since he entered the league so he would replace one of them, and how many points did Versteeg actually score when he came to us? We already had good scoring depth before he arrived. The second replacement man could be newly signed Tom Sestito, who a lot of people seem to think would be able to replicate what Hartnell does. Now, I'm a little sceptical about whether he could put up 40 points in his first full NHL season because I'd most likely see him playing on the fourth line.
With Versteeg and Hartnell gone under the current cap we would be able to sign Bryzgalov, Powe, DSOD and we could resign Leino to a 3 million a year deal (but I think he should only get 2.5 mil) and still be under the current cap. Now we would still need another scoring winger and there has been mumbling round here about resigning Gagne who won't be making 5 million this season. If we can get Gagne for a cap hit of 3 million then our cap hit would be 62,292,488 for the season. Which would be under what the projected cap is to be.
However, this is only possible with Backlund as the backup which I don't think would be such a bad move because there would be no point in keeping Bob in the NHL to play 15 games a season at this point in his career. It would be better for him to go down to the AHL where he would be the starter and get more experience playing in the smaller rink and get more puck playing experience.
If this happened my line up would be
Gagne - Richards - Nodl
Leino - Briere - Voracek
JVR - Giroux - Carter
Sestito - Betts - Powe
Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - DSOD/Bartulis
7th D-man DSOD/Bartulis
Bryzgalov
Backlund
I don't think that looks that bad a team but what are your guys thoughts?
UPDATE
Sorry didn't realise I could copy the cap geek team to this
This first team is for if the cap was $62,500,000
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Simon Gagne ($3.000m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.850m)
Ville Leino ($2.500m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($1.270m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Darroll Powe ($0.725m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Tom Sestito ($0.577m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
/ Danny Syvret ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.500m) / Johan Backlund ($0.800m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,522,488; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): -$22,488
This second team is for a salary cap of $63,500,000
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Simon Gagne ($3.000m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.850m)
Ville Leino ($2.500m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($1.270m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Darroll Powe ($0.725m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Tom Sestito ($0.577m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
/ Danny Syvret ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.500m) / Johan Backlund ($0.800m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $63,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,692,488; BONUSES: $975,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $807,512
This item was written by a member of this community and is not necessarily endorsed by Broad Street Hockey.
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I propose that we trade Versteeg and Hartnell to Columbus for the 8th overall pick, Jakub Voracek (who I only really thought about thanks to Flyersfan94’s post a couple days ago) and whatever other picks you guys think we could get with that. I’m not too good at judging pick value since I’ve only been a fan of Hockey for two seasons. Yes we would be giving up two 40 point scorers this season but Voracek has been a consistent 40 point scorer since he entered the league so he would replace one of them, and how many points did Versteeg actually score when he came to us?
To me, this paragraph sums up exactly why Columbus would never do this trade. If you think Voracek is basically a push with either Versteeg or Hartnell, then that means Columbus is basically trading the 8th overall pick for the other one. Do you actually think some team would give up the #8 pick for either one of those guys??
Also, with regards to Bobrovsky, he can’t be sent down to the AHL without being subject to waivers. He played in too many games last season so he is not waiver exempt anymore. If the Flyers wanted to send him down, all 29 other teams would have a chance to claim him first and he showed enough potential last season that you know someone will.
On Bob
I apologise I completely forgot about the fact that he will now have to clear waivers, my bad. However, on
Do you actually think some team would give up the #8 pick for either one of those guys??We gave up a first and a third for Versteeg so when you package together the fact that they’re getting one established player in Hartnell (even though he can’t skate) and an up and coming winger in Versteeg I think we should be able to get the 8th pick off of them.
Bob can be sent to the AHL, he just has to be designated prior to the season starting (I think it is by Oct. 1 but I could be wrong about the specific date). In order to call him up to the Flyers after that point he would have to pass through waivers where he would undoubtedly be claimed.
Source?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 20, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone should keep in mind that Voracek is only an RFA. That limits his trade value severely.
Hartnell and Versteeg is a very realistic trade for the 8th overall pick and Voracek’s rights
The thing with this trade is that Columbus is looking for a top line franchise center to play alongside Rick Nash and not two more wingers. Trading Carter is the only way this particuliar deal gets done.
Everyone should keep in mind that Voracek is only an RFA. That limits his trade value severely.
Hartnell and Versteeg is a very realistic trade for the 8th overall pick and Voracek’s rights
No, it does not limit his trade value, and I still don’t think it makes the deal any more plausible. Getting Voracek’s rights is still the equivalent of getting either Voracek or draft picks as compensation, possibly a first rounder if another team really puts up a good offer for him. Even though he’s a RFA, Voracek is still valuable, because whichever team loses him will get compensatory draft picks in return. So even assuming some random third team signs Voracek to an unmatchable offer sheet, the Flyers would get that first or second round pick instead of Columbus.
So, in reality, you’re asking Columbus to give up the 8th overall pick and either Voracek OR a likely first or second round pick for a $4.2 million dollar cap hit 49 point player and an undersized forward who had 11 points in 27 games with the Flyers last year. Seems WAY too optimistic to me…
by FooFighter1124 on Jun 20, 2011 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions
From everything I’ve seen, Voracek is going be signed for a cap hit of 2.5-3 mil per year. That would make him worth a third round pick.
If he is signed for more than that then your argument is valid, but if he’s signed for 2.5-3 then so is mine.
And I wouldn’t grade Versteeg based off of a half season with the Flyers. If we do keep him this year, then I think he will have a much more producitve year. The chemistry just wasn’t there. Sometimes it happens quick and other times it takes a while
From everything I’ve seen, Voracek is going be signed for a cap hit of 2.5-3 mil per year. That would make him worth a third round pick.
How does that make him worth a 3rd round pick? Versteeg has a cap hit of $3.083 and he was worth a 1st and a 3rd.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 20, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Completely different. We’re talking about how much Voracek’s rights are worth. I’m just guessing based off the salary that I’ve read Voracek is proabably going to sign for. Some team could absolutely throw more than 3 mil per year at him which would drastically increase the compensation.
Versteeg was not a RFA, we traded those picks for him.
Here’s a link to how RFA compensation is determined.
So you’re assuming someone is throwing an offer sheet are Voracek? The Flyers aren’t going to sign him on an offer sheet, they’d trade for his rights, and sign him. Voracek’s trade value also isn’t determined by offer sheets.
Also, Geoff is assuming the Flyers would get a deal done with Voracek at a length where he will be an RFA when that deal is up again (keeping him cost controlled), much like Versteeg’s current contract…hence the comparison you are missing.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
So his worth is determined by the compensation given to CBJ for another team signing him? That’s a very low-ball estimate of his value, since RFA’s are very, very rarely signed to offer sheets. His value is found in his trade value, not the compensation given to CBJ, since they would absolutely match an offer that only gets them a 3rd round pick in return for their former #7 overall.
Also, your link says a 3rd round pick is for those signed to $994k – $1.5 mil.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 20, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, your link says a 3rd round pick is for those signed to $994k – $1.5 mil.
Yeah, I noticed that after posting it. It would be a second rounder based off a 3 mil per year salary.
These compensation picks change every year too and I haven’t seen the new chart for 2011-2012. Not sure if they’ve posted it yet or if that comes out when they announce the new salary cap.
Either way, I think acquiring Voracek and CBJ’s first rd pick only happens for Jeff Carter. And I would only want Homer to make that deal pending us signing Voracek to something in the 3 mil per year range first.
Yeah Don and Geoff pretty much covered everything I was going to say. My main point was that if Voracek’s best offer sheet is so high that we/Columbus won’t match it, then we/CBJ will get a first round pick back in return. If the offer sheet is reasonable then we/CbJ will just match it. No team holding his rights would want to lose him for a contract that only brings back a second or third rounder as compensation. Voracek being an RFA doesn’t really hinder his trade value, mostly because—as Geoff said—RFA’s don’t usually even get signed. Like I said earlier, you’re asking CBJ to give up #8 overall and ~$2.5-3M cap hit Voracek OR a first round pick for Hartnell and Versteeg. I just don’t see that happening.
by FooFighter1124 on Jun 20, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions

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