Stamkos, Stamkos, Stamkos: Pros and cons to the Flyers sending Steven an offer sheet
by Travis Hughes on Jun 29, 2011 5:28 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Flyers Commentary
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Steven Stamkos could come to Philadelphia. He could be a Flyer. Like, it could actually happen.
We've been silent on the issue all week because there was so much information back and forth that it just seemed crazy, but we're starting to get a clearer picture of things now, with both Frank Seravalli and Anthony SanFilippo reporting similar things this afternoon.
So, first: the basics. Both reporters have said that if the Flyers do indeed decide to send Stamkos an offer sheet, it would be a $115 million deal over 12 years. That's about a $9.5 million cap hit until 2023 with a no-trade clause that would, by rule, not be able to kick in until 2017.
The Lightning can match the offer sheet, for starters. There are plenty of reports out there, most notably from Erik Erlendsson of the Tampa Tribune, saying that Bolts owner Jeff Vinik will certainly match any offer sheet on Stamkos. He only paid $110 million for the team when he bought them before last season, so it's pretty funny that this could be worth more than that -- but at the same time, he's a bazillionaire and has the money to match any offer.
There are a ton of pros and a ton of cons, so let's get right into them.
Pros
- It's Steven Stamkos. Come on now. Picture him on a line with Claude Giroux and James van Riemsdyk. Like, do it. It makes you cry, doesn't it? Happy, happy tears of joy.
- It'd be pretty funny if NHL 12 had to change its cover just a week after unveiling it.
- Even if the Flyers don't get Stamkos, the Lightning would be forced to match the offer, running up the price on Stamkos to an ridiculous number.
- Money? Whatever.
- He doesn't get that NTC until 2017, so if push came to shove, he could be traded if the Flyers were against a wall and things didn't work out. It's not as painful as the Chris Pronger trade in that regard, where it won't almost inevitably bite the team.
Cons
- Holy shit, that's a lot of money.
- Excuse me, but again, the Flyers can only spend $64.3 million on their team next year. If you're giving Stamkos more than $9 million of that and you're giving Ilya Bryzgalov $5.6 million and you're giving Danny Briere $6.5 million and you're giving Kimmo Timonen ... I mean, there's a point where the numbers just don't work. Again.
- You're giving up four first round picks to the Lightning as compensation. Four of them. One in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. Yes, believe it or not, the Flyers have all of those picks to give, too.
- You're probably giving up a whooooole lot to get him. Not just the money, not just the picks. Current roster players. There's a cap, and somebody would have to go. Danny Briere? Some mix of a bunch of different players? Either way, you're probably opening up a hole somewhere else (defense, somewhere else up front), and you likely won't have the leftover cash to fill that hole.
- Say you go through the process, Tampa matches and you don't sign him. The process is going to drag out past July 1. The Lightning can mull the offer for seven days before matching, and seven days after July 1 is July 8, and in that case, with such a thin UFA market this year, the Flyers might not have any more options when it comes to filling out the holes they already have on the roster --- let alone any holes created by the moves necessary to get Stamkos.
That means that, in theory, the Flyers could send him an offer sheet, be stuck without the ability to do much for eight days because all of their eggs are in the Stamkos basket, and then he could just sign in Tampa anyway and we'd be screwed.
The bottom line is simple: every player has a price. Is this one worth it for Steven Stamkos?
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Reading the pros and cons is enough to give you a headache. I’d love to have him, but at what cost?
by 92-74-99-96 on Jun 29, 2011 5:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Good write up, Travis.
This is a tough decision for me. Huge positives, bit huge drawbacks too. However, if the front office is that worried about tix and the gate, getting him here would definitely not harm that situation.
by flyerboom_6 on Jun 29, 2011 5:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I wouldn’t think they would be seeing how Philly is as a hockey market, but was just throwing that out there in light of last week’s trades and some comments about how people weren’t going to renew their tix or get season tix.
by flyerboom_6 on Jun 29, 2011 5:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It does cause the mind to wander a bit.
by 92-74-99-96 on Jun 29, 2011 6:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ever since Don pointed out that Carter scored as much at 5 on 5 as Stamkos, I can’t stop thinking about how good the JvR-G-Carter line was late last year and could have been this year.
/sadface
THIS
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
JVR-Giroux-Stamkos?
Fuck the consequences. I came just thinking about it.
Eh, but seriously, I could easily picture a scenario where the Flyers sign Stamkos and trade/not re-sign JVR to make salary cap room. It’d be 1 step forward only to have to take 2 steps back.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Fuck the consequences. I came just thinking about it.
This is how babies mistakes are made.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
by Snevik on Jun 29, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’d be 1 step forward only to have to take 2 steps back
I mean if JVR was the only guy who had to go it would be worth it.
What can't Giroux do?
possible but
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.100m)
Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Steven Stamkos ($8.200m) / James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.300m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
/ Tom Sestito ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kevin Marshall ($0.845m)
/ Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Johan Backlund ($0.800m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,043,928; BONUSES: $3,227,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $256,072
highly unlikely but possible
trade
you would have to dump versteeg and bob for picks and prospects asuming tampa didnt match the offer … but they will
And Shelley. And accounting for the bonus cushion, Carle as well. And still not have room to call up anyone for injuries. And STILL be over by Lappy’s salary, because it doesn’t come off the books until day 2 of the season, and they need to be cap compliant by day 1.
It just doesn’t work.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget that you have to get Simmonds and Voracek to sign for 3.4M combined.
The Lappy thing is fine though. Sestito and/or Marshall can be in the AHL on day 1, then Lappy goes on LTIR and they get called up for day 2. If it worked for Nodl, it can work for them.
Not being able to call up a single player for injury all year long is a bigger issue.
no
there is no bonus cushin .. so u dont need to move carle .. the bonus are already factored in
I admit – this is true … I was wrong. But my other 3 objections stand.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Legit boner after hearing that line.
JVR-G-stamkos
It’s like the ferrari I always wanted
It’s gonna be sexy but cost so much cash
by s-hanna on Jun 29, 2011 6:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
...
You’re giving up four first round picks to the Lightning as compensation. Four of them. One in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. Yes, believe it or not, the Flyers have all of those picks to give, too.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Whenever I see that picture, on in this case .gif, I cannot believe that that was once Hugh Laurie.
by PowerOfBauer on Jun 29, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Holy shit – I never made the connection before. That’s damn funny.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Or this.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Has anyone proposed a realistic cap scenario in which Stamkos is a Flyer via offer sheet and there aren’t players who should be skating for the Phantoms on the Flyers’ 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines in ‘11-’12 (not to mention ‘12-’13)? I was yelling for Snider to bring the Phantoms back to Philly as soon as they announced the move to Adirondack, too, but this isn’t exactly what I had in mind.
(Ok, maybe adding the 2nd line to that statement is a bit of a stretch, but you get the point).
by Cackalacky Mike on Jun 29, 2011 5:46 PM EDT reply actions
Wasn't going to post this, but since you asked
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)
Steven Stamkos ($8.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.250m)
Wayne Simmonds ($2.000m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Tom Sestito ($0.550m)
/ / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Kevin Marshall ($0.845m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Johan Backlund ($0.800m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,291,705; BONUSES: $3,227,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $8,295
If he really wants a 9.5M cap hit, you have to lose your 7th D-man or stash Schenn in the AHL for a season and Sign a 1.5M forward.
by hebrew hammer on Jun 29, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, you have to waive Hartnell and Shelley and trade Bob.
by hebrew hammer on Jun 29, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we still waive Hartnell and Shelley even if we don’t sign Stamkos?
by Michael Toole on Jun 29, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Crazy Man Rinaldo!!!!!
/sarcasm
Just seeing that no has me questioning the value of a deal for Stamkos. Rinaldo would probably make dressing a third forward on that line futile b/c he’ll be in the box the majority of the time.
by flyerboom_6 on Jun 29, 2011 5:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Misread the above and just saw Rinaldo as the guy holding it down in the press box, but still. That’s too close for him to be to an actual NHL game.
by flyerboom_6 on Jun 29, 2011 5:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
there aren’t players who should be skating for the Phantoms on the Flyers’ 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines in ‘11-’12
So … no? Your answer was no? You also forgot Lappy. And injury callups. And I thought the Stamkos contract at the going rumor-rtae was $9.5m a season cap hit. And the bonus cushion doesn’t exist this season. And …
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, that’s the second time you’ve said there is no bonus cushion on a roster that isn’t using the bonus cushion…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry – yes, that was my (repeated) mistake.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Corrected.
You also forgot Lappy. And injury callups. And I thought the Stamkos contract at the going rumor-rate was $9.5m a season cap hit. And the bonus cushion doesn’t exist this season. And …
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
::sigh:: yes
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Jakub Voracek ($2.500m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Steven Stamkos ($9.583m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.000m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.800m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
/ Matt Read ($0.900m)
DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Steve Montador ($2.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kevin Marshall ($0.845m)
/ Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,933,094; BONUSES: $1,837,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $366,906
The Duke abides.
Is it wrong that I don’t hate this? Sure it has its flaws, but it is a legitimate NHL roster.
What can't Giroux do?
Flaws? Oh, shit, I left way too much cap room. Un-lowball talbot and montador, and that cap room goes away lickety split.
The Duke abides.
Those aren’t the flaws I’m discussing. Namely there’s not enough for an injury call up. Another being its going to be difficult to resign JVR in the next off-season without letting one of Versteeg or Coburn go. Also it makes it tough to fit Schenn in next year. And it is not under the cap day 1 which it needs to be.
What can't Giroux do?
Don’t sweat the day 1 thing. Read and/or Marshall can be in the AHL on day 1. Healthy scratches aren’t critical for the first game.
Yeah I mean I’m just not sure when day 1 exactly is. I figured you don’t need healthy scratches for game one.
What can't Giroux do?
Paul Holmgren says he’ll be called back up when things get set with the injury situation.
Sounds like PH didn’t know exactly when either. But they worked it out.
I refuse to get drawn into the “team building” frenzy but you could waive Shelley and trade Carle and Hartnell and fit Stamkos under the cap with a $9.583 cap hit.
by PowerOfBauer on Jun 29, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Sestito for Shelley, Gustafsson/Marshal for Carle, Read for Hartnell. Clearly not ideal but…
by PowerOfBauer on Jun 29, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If Stamkos does indeed come here, it will further cement my perception that either 1) drunken monkeys or 2) WIP callers have taken over as GM of this team.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Yes. Drunken monkeys taking over would do the job much better than WIP callers.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Isn’t that a Bravo channel show?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The more I read about this, the more I’m convinced that Stamkos isn’t worth Homer giving another extended middle finger to the future. Yes, he’s great but the way that it would handcuff the team….No, no, and no.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
twitter: @princessblueezy
Compensation
I believe the Lightning have the right to four first round picks, but have the option of negotiating a different package. As such, couldn’t the Flyers offer up Bob, Couturier, perhaps Versteeg/Carle and next year’s first? That would seem to make more sense for both teams.
James vanRidiculous.
if a team (including the lightning) makes a better offer than the flyers
does stamkos automatically go to the lightning or can he decide to sign the flyers offer?
Off topic
Pens offered Jagr a one-year deal.
by flyerboom_6 on Jun 29, 2011 5:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
ouch. I do wonder if he has a full NHL season left in the tank. But hey – why not, right? Maybe Mario can dress for a few games, after accepting a contract from himself for himself at league minimum. Now if Recchi comes out of retirement … booyah.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I definitely don’t like the possibility of losing on key free agents while we wait for Stamkos. Not worth it.
Can we sign Leino already!
Unless he wants about $2.25mil, can we not?
by PowerOfBauer on Jun 29, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
If nothing else, I respect your passion. You’re like a JIBTA who cares only about Ville Leino.
What can't Giroux do?
Thank you. I think he’s a great player with lots to prove still. And his beard rules.
by bigVILLEstyle on Jun 29, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
hey
i also like ville .. i want him back .. i dont want to spend 8 plus mil on stamkos unless its an offer sheet .. if i have to give up shcenn and coutier im out
I honestly want Leino back, and the possibility of Cole or Madden. Cole would want to come here and play for Lavy, and I like that attitude. He’d be a good role player. And 52 points last year, not bad.
by bigVILLEstyle on Jun 29, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The beard totally rules. But I think we can do better for the same money. Sorry.
by Georgia_Flyer on Jun 29, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’s “day of a million Stamkos posts” has thus far yielded 87 posts mentioning Stamkos by name (including this one). I’m fairly certain Don leads the way in terms of total mentions.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Yeah that completely backfired on me. What can you do…but when you have to compare him and his value to players and why he may not be great value, and we let better value walk already, it’s hard not to mention his name.
Anyway…I’ll see to it that I am punished.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Homer never dose what I want him to
But if he bothered to listen me, Id tell him to let this one pass
It's cool guys, I fixed it.
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Steven Stamkos ($9.500m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)
Wayne Simmonds ($2.000m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
Jussi Jokinen ($2.000m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.250m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,583,928; BONUSES: $1,825,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $716,072
Just for fun, I’d say that roster has too many small guys up front. You need a guy like Shelley or Sestito to keep the peace if a bigger team like Boston starts taking runs at your guys.
by PowerOfBauer on Jun 29, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Walker ($1.700m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
I think I found the problem with this roster.
What can't Giroux do?
Eh, I’m fine with giving Bartulis a shot but at $1.7mil Walker is in the minors. I’d rather have another year of SOD or give Gustafsson the 6th spot.
by PowerOfBauer on Jun 29, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The basic problem is the defense is back to 08-09 depth which was the problem trying to be solved last off-season.
What can't Giroux do?
Duh, Bryz!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Jussi Jokinen wouldn’t be that cheap I picture him being closer to Laich money than that.
What can't Giroux do?
Unless Leino is also looking for Laich money.
by PowerOfBauer on Jun 29, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ve underpaid Jokinen by about half, but there’s other options you can put there, and if you want Stamkos on the wing, it’ll have to be a center you’re getting for that money.
Also, there are better options than Matt Walker on the UFA market.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Everyone keeps poopin' on Matt Walker
For what reason though? because of the injuries? Dude played in four games last year shouldn’t he be given an opportunity at some point on the third line with possibly a better pairup (say Coburn)? He’s here ‘til 2012-’13
Some of it probably has to do with resentment over the Gagne trade but the pragmatic criticism is based on his salary/cap hit and skill set.
by PowerOfBauer on Jun 29, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
So say Tampa does in fact sign Stamkos…or even if the Flyers sign him, the Flyers will have, in effect, driven up the price on Free Agency in general. And that is a very, very bad thing.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
personally, i wouldn’t care if we got Stamkos….if we wouldn’t have to get rid of anybody we still actually have left and it wouldn’t jeopardize the future of any of our other players (like Coburn, Carle, vanRiemsdyk, Briere, Giroux, etc.)
so…i guess that means i do care…because it would be sort of unavoidable.
"Everyone wants to be THAT guy, but not everyone is willing to put himself, or knows how to put himself in that situation. A big part of it is not being afraid...of the moment, of falling." - Danny Briere
by ForTheLoveOfBob on Jun 29, 2011 6:30 PM EDT reply actions
Travis – straight up. Just add a poll.
Do you accept Bryzgalov as your personal savior, and Stamkos as his only scoring son?
YES
NO
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
+1
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha……very well played.
by flyerboom_6 on Jun 29, 2011 6:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought Lukko was on record earlier saying no more blockbusters were in the works and essentially squashing these rumors
Holmgren was on the record saying he would not trade Carter.
I understand what you are getting at, but I am not sure I would trust everything that comes from this organization.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
That’s what they want you to think. Then … powe! right in the kisser! Blockbuster to the right! Blockbuster to the left! And this team is unrecognizable.
What can't Giroux do?
You have to give royalties to the Minnesota Wild now for using that phrase.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
TOO MUCH STAMKOS TALK, AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Danny Fist-Pump Strikes Again!!!
by MeszarosKillsPeople on Jun 29, 2011 6:44 PM EDT reply actions
Pretty sure my head already asploded last week when the Flyers traded away their two best players…
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jun 29, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Panotch is throwing out there the Flyers would consider bringing back Handzus. I’m intrigued.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
The Flyers would consider bringing back Ron Sutter … if they thought it would help. I was annoyed when the team traded ‘Zus away back in the day, but he’s a bit past his prime now, no?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
No, supposedly did very well last year for the Kings.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He played the toughest minutes in LA last year, but had the worst Corsi Rel on the team. His GAON/60 was 2.33, which would have ranked him 9th on the Flyers last year (all else being equal). A lot of PK, and average on the draw. His size is a big plus though, I would think.
Mourning Gagne forever.
And the hair…
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Handzus and Hartnell on a line.
Red curly hair explosion.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
you got one guy who can’t stay on his feet and another who’s so slow the defense will catch them on the break out every time…..I like Handzus but please no, Madden would be better.
Even the Canadian homers think Philly can't sign Stamkos.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41102-Rumor-Roundup-Stamkos-nears-RFA-status.html
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
How horrible would this be ???
Send Schenn to the AHL
Trade or waive Hartnell, Jody Shelly and Leighton
Once Lappy goes on LTIR we have over 2mil cap space for a 13th forward
And I think those are pretty accurate cap hits for Voracek, Simmonds, and Reasoner
Stamkos salary based off the 14 yr 110 mil contract talked about earlier
Whats everyone think ??
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Steven Stamkos ($7.850m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.500m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.250m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)
DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,308,095; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $991,905
If you waive Hartnell or anyone else, and they get claimed, aren’t we on the hook for half their salary (and salary cap hit)?
And last I heard, the best-guess cap hit for Stamkos was $9.2m a year. Not $7.85m. Am I wrong?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Not wrong.
Plus, how much of the Cap is left for next year to pull up Schenn.
Stamkos is no Crosby, he is great, but he isn’t a one man team, and way too many other teams (ie. Capitals) have too much money in too few players.
by NickFotiu4HOF on Jun 29, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t even start on next season – that just makes the whole argument easier. JVR, Versteeg, Coburn, Betts, Carle … all expecting new contracts for 2012-13. Even with minimal raises for everyone aside from JVR, you’re sunk.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Danny Fist-Pump Strikes Again!!!
by MeszarosKillsPeople on Jun 29, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If they get claimed on the way down to the AHL, you’re clear of them. If they get claimed on the way back up (reentry waivers) then you have to pay half the salary and cap hit.
Ah so. Thank you. SO we actually could bury bad contracts in the minors, with no repercussions? That is encouraging … once Bob needs a new contract, Bryz can win multiple Calders for Adirondack.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
As a great AHL goalie should be.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess I figured Leighton was sent down in an effort to get him off the roster entirely – what with all Geoff’s insistence about ‘no other team wanted him at half-price’ and all when I propose adding him to a trade this offseason. But perhaps I misunderstood?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess I figured Leighton was sent down in an effort to get him off the roster entirely
Isn’t that the same thing as burying bad contracts?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 30, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
No – if he has a one-way contract he still counts towards the 50-contract limit. I thought your supposition was that no one would pick him up at half-price, so he’s valueless now. But Eric is saying he didn’t have to pass waivers – so no one could pick him up anyway. Or am I confusing this even further? Was Leighton placed directly on waivers like Zherdev, and THEN sent to the Phantoms?
Too early for that degree of precision in thought. Must finish coffee first.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I have no idea what you’re saying. He counts on the 50 contract limit unless claimed. I don’t think he has any trade value, no, but what does that have to do with waivers?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 30, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll try one last time before writing it off as a bad deal.
The presented roster supposed Hartnell to be ‘sent to the minors’ to save cap space. I asked if that meant he had to pass waivers. Eric said no. I then thought of our previous conversations about including LEighton in a trade, where you stated he had no value because no one wanted him last season even at half-price. That didn’t make sense to me, because if he was sent to the AHL he wouldn’t have to pass waivers until recalled (according to Eric) UNLESS he was specifically placed on waivers, as Zherdev was, but remained on the NHL roster until clearing. Then he was sent to Adirondack to save cap space, but his unclaimed contract still counted towards the team’s overall 50-contract limit. If he was claimed, however, (which I assumed was the whole point of placing him on waivers) then half of his salary AND his one-count contract come off the cap and the roster limit respectively. The mistake in my initial thinking was that you had to pass waivers to be sent to the AHL; as this is not the case, a bad contract can be buried for salary-cap issues, but not in terms of the roster limits.
Hopefully I have it all correct now – I give up either way.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, Hartnell can’t go to the Phantoms without clearing waivers.
The mistake in my initial thinking was that you had to pass waivers to be sent to the AHL; as this is not the case, a bad contract can be buried for salary-cap issues, but not in terms of the roster limits.
So, I don’t know how Eric convinced you of this, unless it’s a conditioning assignment, but then he has to come back.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 30, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Why am I getting all the blame here?
If you waive Hartnell or anyone else, and they get claimed, aren’t we on the hook for half their salary (and salary cap hit)?
If they get claimed on the way down to the AHL, you’re clear of them. If they get claimed on the way back up (reentry waivers) then you have to pay half the salary and cap hit.
They go on waivers before they can be sent down. If someone claims them, then that team now owns them and their contract and we’re done. If nobody claims them, they can be put in the AHL and get paid the salary stated in their contract but don’t count towards the NHL salary cap. This is what the Flyers did with Leighton last year.
If the Flyers later want to recall them, they go on reentry waivers, and if someone claims them then, then we have to pay half their salary and have it count on our cap hit even though they’re not on our team any more.
Hope that clears it up. Sorry if I added to the confusion earlier.
haha, right. I wasn’t reading, just responding to penguinsfan who said you convinced him of something that’s wrong.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 30, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep – all my fault.
/not sarcasm
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No – the confusion was all mine. I get it now. Thank you both.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s changed a few times today. The above roster works still if we bump it to 9.2 and make wellwood or rinaldo the 13th forward.
We would squeak in at just under
I’m actually against bringing Stamkos in. Figured I’d see if I could make it work without blowing up half the team.
Well we can have hope.
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Steven Stamkos ($9.500m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)
Jakub Voracek ($2.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Simon Gagne ($3.500m)
Scottie Upshall ($2.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($2.250m)
Arron Asham ($0.750m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)
DEFENSEMEN
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Kevin Marshall ($0.846m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Brian Boucher ($0.925m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,722,429; BONUSES: $2,965,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,577,571
By the way
A few salaries are wrong, or complete guesses.
by Joe Severino on Jun 29, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Stamkos is also a center, and Voracek, Upshall and Asham are all right wingers not left last time I knew.
The more I think about us getting Stamkos the more I hate it. Giving up 4 1st round picks, the possibility of signing our UFAs and RFAs, more of our current offensive players like Hartnell or Briere, and killing the possibility of re-signing JVR and others in the future just doesn’t seem worth it.
I have a Stamkos headache.
Danny Fist-Pump Strikes Again!!!
by MeszarosKillsPeople on Jun 29, 2011 7:13 PM EDT reply actions
Half of me wants to throw my computer off a tall building and just wait for ESPN to say something about it next week.
Danny Fist-Pump Strikes Again!!!
by MeszarosKillsPeople on Jun 29, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I leave for vacation July 1. Gone til July 11. I have no choice but to soak up the drama now, because I will be away from the action for 10 days, likely without a computer for the entirety.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I got a sugar rush thinkin about Stamkos in Orange and Black. Many line options and some good up sides. I have to say I was actually excited about watching Homer pick in the 1st round of the Entry Draft. That’s a crapload of money to be giving up. Sure he’s a grade A sniper. But man this has a bad smell about it. We just dumped 2 contracts to free up space to put us in a deeper hole. What, Richards/Carter cap hit was 10+. Stamkos/Bryz would be 15mil. That really doesn’t make any sense. Send off ur 2 best players to dig a 5 mil hole, and still don’t have all your players sign yet. I don’t know bout you, but I’d pass. Get a good two way player to make up for the glaring hole losing our Captain left and call it a day. Was hopin Laich from Wash. would make it to the first cause he would have been a good fit. Guess time will tell. Let’s Go FLYERS. . …
Leino = $$$
by flyerfreek on Jun 29, 2011 8:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Brilliant Plan
So heres what I see…
A: We offer Stammers a huge price.
B: Tampa Matches, and he bites.
C: Gagne (!) can’t be resigned by Tampa.
D: We get Gagne back!!! And at a good price because tampa can’t pay him.
I really think we’re up to something…
(Also…Hello, this is my first post. I love BSH)
Show'em what sisu is kimmo!
Welcome, hope you enjoy yourself now that your chatting.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m thinking all this talk of Tampa matching any offer is just s smokescreen to limit the teams that do go after him because if I’m Tampa and I have the ability to sign him it would have been done by now. In other words, they ain’t matching anything. Not with their team losing 20 million last year and a pitiful fan base for support.
This is a ruse
Look at how this is being handled: 1. leak what a offer sheet would be to Stamkos from 2 Flyer beat writers; 2. No way Stamkos makes a deal now with TB because huge numbers ($115 Million over 12 years) are being floated out there; 3. Other teams see what the Flyers are saying they would offer and adjust their offer sheets accordingly; 4. Flyers never submit an offer sheet to Stamkos, but other clubs do; 5. Stamkos signs inflated offer, Tampa matches – they have to.
It is all just a ruse to drive up the cost of Stamkos to the Lightning and hamstring them down the line. Too many repercussions to the Flyers in winning a Stamkos bidding war. Repercussions like not being able to pay JVR. After last playoffs, the Flyers FO is thinking JVR is going to be a monster power forward. They would much rather have the big banger who can score 40 goals a year to the sniper like Stamkos who gets 50. Its one of the reasons Jeff Carter no longer plays for the Flyers, he wasn’t nearly physical enough for his size for the FO’s liking.
Tampa Bay fans are mocking everyone
After all, “taking his talents to Toronto” is a lot more alliterative than LeBron saying he was taking his to South Beach. Do you think somebody named Steven Stamkos might be a fan of alliteration? He hasn’t ever said that he isn’t.
I can honestly say I have no desire to see Stamkos as a Flyer. In the salary cap era, there is no way in hell I am paying a player $9.5 million even if he is worth it (which I do not think Stamkos is). I’d much rather have depth than a superstar.
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
Unfortunately, Homer’s paying Bryz 10m this year.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s referring to the cap hit, not individual year salary.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Still paying the guy 10m, but I understand the nuance.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya, I mean cap hit. I don’t care how much a player is getting paid.
We don’t need to go into how I feel about Bryzgalov…
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jun 30, 2011 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions
People aren’t really concerned about the yearly salary here as it doesn’t effect the cap hit for that individual year and the Flyers aren’t a cap floor team. So it’s always safe to assume we are talking cap, and that we don’t care about the yearly salary.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Panaccio on 97.5 – good, sobering listen
by phanatic's phloozies on Jun 29, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sad existence when you are that excited about a 39 year old, lazy, over-the-hill winger coming out of Russian exile…
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jun 29, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Somehow that just doesn’t surprise me.
by 92-74-99-96 on Jun 29, 2011 9:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That is kinda pathetic … and I remember fondly the Cup years with him on the team.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 29, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
They know he’s 39 right?
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Hey – if Rex can do it, anyone can! …. Right? ;-p
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
not worth more than 2.5 for 2 years. If you pay him 4 per year and he sucks this year, harder to get rid of the contract. I like him, but he’s just not worth that much. Maybe 3.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear ya, but anyone who thinks they can swing getting Stamkos belongs in the loony bin if you ask me. But he’s still not worth 4 to me.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
anyone who thinks they can swing getting Stamkos belongs in the loony bin if you ask me.
This includes Homer.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
No argument. But I still say Snider is pulling the strings here.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Stamkos
It’s a shame about this salary cap era. I don’t know if you could add Stamkos to any team without ruining that team down the line. I think the Flyers should be pulling an Eagles move and trading up in the draft the next few years, packaging their first round and a player/other pick for another team’s higher first round and build a team around youth, allowing us to sign bigger name players to shorter contracts.
Which brings me to another thing, these contracts suck!! They’re for decades!! Free Agency, talent rushes, etc won’t exist and will be boring as hell with all these talents locked up, and in the price of acquiring a RFA so high. Baseball’s draft is somewhat analogous to Hockey’s, though there’s a ton more draft picks and more talent in the later rounds – and even there you lose what, two first round picks for losing a top player to free agency?? I could stomach two first rounders for Stamkos at that rate, though his salary is another bit of an issue. I think without Timmo we should be able to resign Giroux and JVR and the like.
But it is probably best not to risk it. There has to be talent out there the Flyers could add to greatly improve our team with a lower cost and lower risk. The Penguins did it last year mid-season I believe.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
there is no way on earth we will sign stamkos
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Jun 29, 2011 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don’t care about the cons
It’s Stamkos….this kid will be the best in the league, period.
If you CAN sign him…YOU SIGN HIM
We probably won’t….but we have to give it a shot
by Ivan Monteiro Prado on Jun 29, 2011 10:01 PM EDT reply actions
So then you become the Devils and can’t ice a 20 man team a few nights because you don’t have the cap space, too many huge contracts. Then in a year or two, the two (possibly) good lines you have get broken up since your other young good players deserve raises but you can’t afford it—oh, and a few of your good Dmen as well. If you’re lucky a few of the prospects you picked up can start to take on a more major role, but who knows. So in under two weeks you went from being one of the deepest teams in the league to wondering who is going to make up an actual defensive line capable of taking on Crosby and the other top lines you will face every night. And no other teams have good defense to take on your one great and one pretty good offensive line, right?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahaha, that’s great. I just rather he hit me in the head, quick KO; I might still want to have children some day.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t want to pass out, I want to feel pain just so I can hate something more then the Flyers.
Samesis
Now that you mention it, I may go rob him now and have the guy do it so I can be unconscious for the rest of this Stamkos crap
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 29, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
There's been some talk from the beat writers on Twitter about a "poison pill" to get Yzerman to not match the offer sheet
Does anyone think that if the lone game the Flyers are playing is the “poison pill,” that they are better off going 2-years with a $10M-$12M cap hit than going long-term? Just curious about opinion, as I have seen that thrown out there a bit.
Of course, the reverse of this is you are giving up 4 1st rounders for 2 years of a player, which is a whole other can of worms.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Dangerous waters, walking into an opposing team's blog and arguing an opinion, but...
The “poison pill” 1 year, 12mil offer is the only thing that comes close to scaring me at this point. There’s a reason I don’t think it happens though: Stamkos himself. A lot of people seem to forget that faxing over an offer sheet does absolutely nothing, besides hurting a GM’s rep. For the offer sheet to mean anything, the player must sign it. Which I don’t think Stamkos would do; why would he? Sure, he’d be making gobs of cash, but he’d have virtually no chance of winning a cup, be it his new home or Tampa. Tampa would be in cap hell, as would the team he signed with; giving one player a 12 mil offer is not an effective way to win hockey. I can’t see Stammer being selfish enough to hamstring his team’s chances of winning like that.
Feel free to oppose my point; it’s personal opinion. I just can’t see Stammer and his agent(s) accepting that offer knowing the consequences to his rep and his new team’s (or current team’s) chances of winning.
you're not defending him are you?
are you his mom?
by toppleprone on Jun 7, 2011 9:43 PM EDT
Following this train of thought, is there a way Stamkos could say he wants to earn a 7M cap hit (which Tampa would probably match if he received an offer sheet for that amount), but not ultimately sign with Tampa?
As an RFA, his only leverage is to refuse his current club’s offers, no matter how high they go. If he signs an offer sheet from another team and Tampa matches it, he is stuck in Tampa. Am I missing something?
by hebrew hammer on Jun 29, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
besides hurting a GM’s rep.
I completely agree, except for that part. I doubt frequent trading partners (Tallon and Chicago, Philly and Nashville, Philly and pre-Yzerman Tampa) would risk fucking up a good relationship, but I don’t think it hurts your rep league wide.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
i kinda skimmed thru the postings but I’m surprised that no one is really giving a look at Brad Richards…he could be just as much of an asset to our team as Stamkos would be. Maybe even better price too.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
This is the kind of thinking that I hope is going on with the Flyers right now.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Why? Draft picks aside, signing Richards would be worse than signing Stamkos. Sure Richards may be cheaper and will not require the loss of draft picks, but he is still going to carry a large cap hit and he is 31 years old looking for a long deal. Hello, Red Flag.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
The thinking of looking elsewhere instead of solely at Stamkos is what I was trying to promote.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I fully support looking elsewhere for FAs. Cole, Gagne, maybe even Handzus I would be in full support of. But not Brad Richards.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
didnt we just sign a 31 year old to a big contract…oh yeah Bryzgalov (aka Breezy)! our new goaltender numero uno.
age doesn’t matter. Recchi shows us that, Lidstrom shows us that. Richards might be a getting older but a.) aren’t we all ? b.) is he still not an offensive threat? even if the cap is still slightly high…rather pay say like 4 or 5 mill than 7 or 8 mill. Not like it has to be a long term deal either.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 29, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Goalies show a different age-production curve to players. Goaltenders are typically able to play at a high level late into their careers, whereas players production typically drop off.
2. Lidstrom is an exception to the rule. Recchi produces nowhere near what he did when he was younger.
3. Yes, Richards is an offensive talent. However, he played sheltered minutes in Dallas and we’ve already got an aging centre who plays easy competition.
Mourning Gagne forever.
I’m just thinking of someone who can help us out and not kill us on the cap. Richards seems to be a guy that can do that. I think the age thing is ridiculous, you are all stuck in a mode that we have to sign long term…bullsh!t we do. Sign him couple of years, we lose some dead weight (maybe even Richards included) and see what comes out of it.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
As people are pointing out, while you think it’s a great idea to get the guy to sign for whatever amount you want for however many years you want, it’s mostly likely not going to happen. Players look for certain things, and at his age he would want a big contract that will last for more than a few years, it will be the last large one he gets.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
from what I’ve read he just wants a team that can compete for the Cup, which is Philly…sure he wants some money for it but I bet you could do it without signing a ‘rest-of-his-career’ contract.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, with the pieces they’ve removed, and the young players they’ve brought back which probably aren’t going to be ready for large roles like Riche and Carts played last year, without several good pieces that all come together just perfectly, they are further from the Cup now than a week ago.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
sure alot of people said that sort of stuff about us two years ago until we proved them wrong and made it to the Finals just to fall two games short. Shit we were a better team this year and we didn’t make it half as far.
people need to stop relying on numbers for your answers. can’t predict what is going to happen or if a player is going to gel with a team. Get what you get and you do what you can with it. bottom line.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
So two years ago, when Homer had made some moves and created depth on this team everywhere besides the third D pair, the Flyers weren’t supposed to contend for the Cup?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
man…
ok, so why didn’t we repeat the run to the Cup this last season? if we were deeper now than we were two years ago? we were a far more competitve team this year than last and didn’t even get close to the Finals. Explain? Can’t blame injuries cuz injuries happened during the Cup run too….
so really what you have on paper comes out completely different on the ice…
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
True. And there are 30 teams (well, not really all 30) that are competing for the same thing. There is a whole series of post on here written by Geoff (I think) about the breakdowns that happened in the Boston series—search for Defensive breakdowns because there are tons of reasons listed. But how about the best one: luck.
The team had all sorts of issues. They were happening the whole second half of the season, so maybe some change will be good, it remains to be seen what will come.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
you are all stuck in a mode that we have to sign long term…bullsh!t we do
I’d be very suprised if Richards doesn’t want a long term contract.
Mourning Gagne forever.
then trick him like you are all trying to trick stamkos have his NTC kick in like couple years down the line and boot him….don’t know what to tell ya, I’m just trying to think of someone else besides Stamkos that might be able to help the team and not tap us completely of our cap.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
eric cole I’d go for. i guess I should have stated I was speaking more of a top-two line sense. Ward isn’t really in that category. I like bergenhiem tho, thought he was a winger? all good choices tho really. I wouldn’t complain.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 5:32 AM EDT up reply actions
is he still not an offensive threat?
This is just poor word placement. What you are asking is basically “does he still stink offensively.” You should have written “is he not still an offensive threat.” That says He’s still good offensively.
even if the cap is still slightly high…rather pay say like 4 or 5 mill than 7 or 8 mill.
Are you saying Richards will sign for a cap hit of 4-5mil? HAHAHA
didnt we just sign a 31 year old to a big contract
So why sign another “old” guy? Seems silly to commit to an old team.
age doesn’t matter. Recchi shows us that, Lidstrom shows us that.
If I really cared enough I’m sure I could find plenty examples of players breaking down and losing a step at an old age.
What can't Giroux do?
reply....
a.)no actually I mean he is still an offensive threat…does that mean pure sniper, ovechkin numbers? no…but he can put the puck where it belongs, in the net.
b.)yeah I am saying that because there is an obvious problem with signing stamkos to a billion jillion dolloar deal.
c.)why not? means he is going to fit right in then, huh?
d.) I’m sure you could you seem like you have alot of time on your hands.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Sou you’ve conceded that age does matter. Thus you’re conceding that there would be problems with signing a 31 year old player. And there is no way Brad Richards signs a deal with a cap hit between 4 and 5 mil.
What can't Giroux do?
no what i’m sayin is, if we have a team of geezers, what is one more going to hurt us?
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
You said:
age doesn’t matter. Recchi shows us that, Lidstrom shows us that.
I said:
If I really cared enough I’m sure I could find plenty examples of players breaking down and losing a step at an old age.
You said:
I’m sure you could
Looks like you’re conceding that a player’s age matters to me.
what is one more going to hurt us
Well It will put the team in an even worse cap position to start. It could prevent the re-signings of key, younger free agents next off-season. It could force younger players to play in lesser roles thus stunting their development. It could saddle this team with another aging player who is simply not worth his contract.
If I had to lock onto one guy i’d rather lock onto a 21 year old than a 31 year old.
What can't Giroux do?
not conceding that age matters, saying if we are an old team with old players, what is the harm in getting another old player….
and I agree completely, I’m not saying Richards is better than Stamkos but he could be a smarter choice given the contracts wanted and what not.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not now, it is 5 years from now when Richards is 36 and he is stuck on a big contract with a few years left that no one is going to want.
Age does matter. There is a reason why guys like Lidstrom and Recchi are at a real premium in the NHL. Very few people in make it into their 40s, let alone play at a high level. Unfortunately for Recchi, despite playing, he has not played particularly well for his standards. Lidstrom, as Todd mentioned, is one of the very few exceptions. There is a normal aging curve in hockey. In the sense according to all reports Brad Richards wants a long-term deal, yes, it pretty much has to be that. If you are Brad Richards, you would be stupid to not sign a long-term deal.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
again, don’t sign him long term….just bring him in a few years then let him go. He is still useful, not sure why no one is seeing that. I mean, yes, sign Stammer if you can but like most people are saying I’m not willing to sell everything off just for one player.
the guy is 31, not 41…still got good 5 years left in the tank and that is more than what we would need from him.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he’d take a discount and less security to play with THE Philadelphia Flyers.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Of course, since they’ve landed Bryz who will stop more shots and now solved all their problems in the locker room by getting rid of those crappy players, I think all FAs will flock to the Flyers door now, demanding to play here for less than they can get elsewhere for less years than they truly wanted.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe knowing his career is winding down and philly is in a "Cup Now’ attitude, might be enough for him….
jerseydriver, like the sarcasm but not needed. get off your high horse please.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
As soon as you stop making comments such as:
d.) I’m sure you could you seem like you have alot of time on your hands.
I’ll think about it.
You keep saying things like, “No, just sign him for 4-5 mill. He’ll take 2-3mill less than he’s thinking because it’s the Flyers, they are contenders.” So are a lot of teams. No one here is trying to say it’s not possible. They are trying to say what you are saying is not likely to happen, and there are other options that will hopefully give the team both good players, cap space and other important things.
The sarcastic things I just listed are the things many fans are saying. You say B. Richards has said he’s just looking for a contender, if so, link the article. I gave you reasons such as the players coming back in trades not being ready to take the roles players leaving did well last season as an example of why they aren’t as good now; my opinion. Where are the facts that you have to support what you are saying?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
read it and tell me that doesn’t sound like a guy who would take a cut to come here….sorry for the comment, I don’t like the feeling of being ganged on when I’m just trying to convo with some fans.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha, that’s all your getting right now, this is conversation. You can say whatever you want, just be prepared to be called on it.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
call me out, there is your proof to what i’ve said. sounds like he wants a team that is a hockey town and a competitor for the Cup…criteria that Philly meets..
we need a proven C, he is a leader and has experience…cheaper than Stammer…doesn’t sound as bad as you make it, or as impossible to get him for a good deal. Most likely he’ll go to New York and be paid a King’s Ransom.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
look, I want Stamkos…the problem is we PROBABLY won’t get him…so who else is there? I mean you can get a Handzus or whom ever, just thought Brad Richards would be an interesting alternative and someone who might be able to come in and help the team without completely obliderating our cap…guess I was wrong. Guys need to ease up a bit, we are all on the same team here.
and I don’t claim to be some hockey guru and I don’t know numbers….just throwing out a name I felt no one was really talking about and might be someone who could help the team in the end.
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
And no one will stop you from speaking an opinion here, just know they will argue their opinion and ask you to back yours up. If you want to have some fun, try capgeek and see if you can make a 22 man roster with Richards and all the needed players.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
While leaving cap room for an Injury call-up or two. Also provide the details of the deal you envision him signing.
What can't Giroux do?
That too.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
hey if we can find ways to sign stamkos…sure we could find ways to sign Richards….
use your imaginations cuz i’m going to say something you disagree with and you are going to just rip it apart anyways. so no, you guys can create a scenario….I’m just trying to motivate thinking outside of Stamkos, because what are you going to do when he doesn’t sign with us?
predictions: Heads will Explode!
Philadelphia Flyers/Columbus Blue Jackets...don't ask me how.
"This the land of money, but ain't it funny how none of it yours" - The Roots - Why?(What's Going On)
by PhillyPhan85 on Jun 30, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
The teams I’m seeing posted with Stamkos are not nearly deep enough. It’s Hockey, there will be injuries, and more than like 2… Plus we need to groom Schenn with the big club.
Stamkos is sexy but lets not even go there guys.
Say hi to the bad guy.
Yankees/Flyers/Gunners
He’s a Lindros-type idea. And we all know how that screwed us last time – without a salary cap!!
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
way off topic, but I’m lookin for the Jeff Skinner video (you all know the one, where he get’s his mic cut off mid wtf ) anyone kind enough to post a link for me?
Unfortunately, it’s gone.
It was on CaptainOrange18’s (His Twitter handle, AKA FlyerGuy18 here and formerly Mr. Fly Guy on youtube) account.
Comcast was a stupidhead and put in copyright claims.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Jun 29, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Stamkos Resigns, Now Missing...
Eyewitnesses say they saw Chris Pronger in the Area while Yzerman and the Lightning were celebrating.
If the Flyers sign Stamkos, I hope we shit the bed and TB gets a top 5 pick.
Also, Homer should look closely to the Devils about how how overpaying 6 guys and playing an AHL team under a few superstars worked out last year.
Samesis
If the Flyers sign Stamkos, I hope we shit the bed and TB gets a top 5 pick.
Why? Seems dumb to even be a fan of a team if you want to see it fail just because it got a certain player. The Devils turned things around pretty well in the second half of the year if I remember correctly.
Its an unsavory thought to sign Stamkos at the expense of team depth, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. Certainly less of a reason to freak out than the trades from last week.
What can't Giroux do?
I just can’t see the Flyers being a good team after this season if they get Stamkos. If we win the cup then fuck it I’ll love the deal, but is it worth sacrificing the long term future for a one year risk? If we don’t win were screwed.
Samesis
if we did acquire stamkos it would not be for the quick cup run… it would be for a future dynasty where the cap keeps growing and lets us get other players to fill in for the ones we lose in his acquisition…
we tossed the quick cup run out with the Day-O’-Trades anyways
-tim
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood. ~ Daniel H. Burnham
by edesjardins37 on Jun 30, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
where the cap keeps growing and lets us get other players to fill in for the ones we lose in his acquisition
So what happens when the cap stops growing?
Samesis
The trouble is signing Stamkos would hurt their ability to build a dynasty. I don’t quite know how effective the salary cap will be without a cap on player salaries.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Getting Brad Richards is a no-brainer. He’s got the word “rad” right there in his name.
What can't Giroux do?
Saw someone use that word on twitter yesterday, brought back great memories of the movie.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jun 30, 2011 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Hello all, I’m new to BSH but am excited to join. Glad to see that a website of people with actual reasonable thoughts (!) exists. Too many of the other sites have ridiculous personal attacks. Can’t wait to contribute!
"Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"
by PraiseMartyMoose on Jun 30, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions
Welcome!
Visit the BSH Store :: Get us on Twitter :: facebook, too!
Broad Street Hockey - Covering the Philadelphia Flyers. Got goaltending? Searching since 1987.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 30, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome as well!
This is the best Flyers blog, IMHO.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 30, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Situation Improving for Flyers, Stamkos Wants $8.5 million
Nick Kypreos from Sportsnet Canada just tweeted:
Can the #Bolts close gap? Hearing bridge 2 get deal done might lie if #Lightning get to 8.5M AAV. That would put Stamkos in top 5 in #NHL
This is great news. If Yzerman is buckling at $8.5 million… Seems like about a 10% hometown discount compared to the rumored Flyers offer sheet which I think has been relayed orally to Stamkos. It all makes sense, Stamkos is giving Tampa a chance to keep him at 10% less than the offer sheet sooo if he signs it, he won’t look bad. Yzerman has to know about the pending offer, so why isn’t he agreeing to the discount… My guess is money which means the Flyers chances have just increase. Maybe a 5% chance to a 10% chance but still… That is good.
What you guys think? Possible?
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Simon Gagne ($2.750m)
Jakub Voracek ($2.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m) / Erik Cole ($2.700m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.850m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
/ Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,941,428; BONUSES: $1,825,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,358,572
This I like.
Inasmuch as it doesn’t include Richards and carter, but spilled milk, what?
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Bury/Trade Versteeg, Hartnell, and Carle
Sign Reasoner, Cole, and Gagne
Send Schenn to Minors
and Opening night would look like so….
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Steven Stamkos ($8.525m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.850m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.200m)
Simon Gagne ($2.750m) / Marty Reasoner ($1.150m) / Erik Cole ($2.700m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
/ / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,912,262; BONUSES: $1,825,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,387,738
Just a rough idea..
This I do not like.
And thankfully word on the street is no deal for Stamkos from Holmgren.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
...
Paul Holmgren has confirmed to me: “We’re not submitting an RFA sheet…”
Don’t know if you guys really believe this after the whole “We’re keeping Carter” saga, but I’m just passing along the tweet.
you're not defending him are you?
are you his mom?
by toppleprone on Jun 7, 2011 9:43 PM EDT
OK, I'm pretty sure this is done.
Even Seravalli, who has crusaded this for the last week, says no offer sheet will be made.
you're not defending him are you?
are you his mom?
by toppleprone on Jun 7, 2011 9:43 PM EDT
Thanks be to Wayne (Gretzky).
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 30, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
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