Wednesday Morning Fly By: Step 1) Acquire Bryz; Step 2) ???; Step 3) CUP!
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- The Flyers traded a 3rd round pick and a conditional draft pick for the negotiating rights to Ilya Bryzgalov: [BSH] [SB Nation Philly] [Five For Howling] [In The Room] [Philly Sports Daily] [Flyers Faithful] [Flyer Files] [Washington Times] [CSNPhilly] [delcotimes.com] [Frequent Flyers] [Puck Daddy] [Philly Reign] [NHL Hot Stove] [Daily News] [Inquirer]
- Oh, they also traded Matt Clackson to Phoenix. How could I forget? [Phantoms Forum] [PostStar.com]
- Transcripts of Paul Holmgren's conference call after the trade: [BSH] [Flyers Faithful] two parts here: [Flyer Files] [Flyer Files]
- How do they plan on affording him? [Philly Sports Daily]
- Because he demanded too much from Phoenix: [Philly Sports Daily]
- A flashback to when the Legion of Doom trounced Tomas Vokoun in his NHL debut, winning 9-5: [Flyers Faithful]
- A thorough look at bringing back Simon Gagne: [Flyers Faithful]
- Nathan Horton is out for the rest of the season due to a concussion: [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy]
- But at the very least, Aaron Rome was suspended four games for knocking Horton out: [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy]
- Another concussion in the NHL, another story where Keith Primeau is interviewed: [theStar]
- So the Binghamtom Senators won the Calder Cup: [PostStar.com]
- The new Winnipeg GM will be Kevin Cheveldayoff: [Puck Daddy]
- Speaking of the Thrashers, the Predators are reaching out to Atlanta's hockey fans and trying to get them on board: [On the Forecheck]
- And speaking of the Predators, Nashville was the 3rd highest NHL market in the ratings for Game 2. "Not a hockey town"? [On the Forecheck]
- A look at the mess in Quebec surrounding their attempt to get a hockey arena built: [Deadspin]
- What does NBC getting the TV rights to the next two Winter Olympics mean? Maybe NHL players in those Games: [SBNation.com]
- Some new features in NHL 12: [Down Goes Spezza]
- A look at injuries hidden by NHL playoff teams: [Down Goes Brown]
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Any cautious optimism I initially had about this trade has been blown out of the water by Holmgren’s comments. Some good questions were put to him in those transcripts about signability, the cap, and how this might affect other players and the team. And how many times did he say “I don’t know”? It really gives me pause. Ordinarily, I would think a good GM would just blow misinformation and smoke to the assembled media, all the while having a damn good understanding of what was going to go down. But I don’t get that sense with this guy. The only thing I do believe is that Holmgren fails to grasp the concept of leverage.
Step 1) Acquire Bryz; Step 2) ???; Step 3) CUP!
The Underpants Gnomes approve of Homer’s strategy.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Jun 8, 2011 7:50 AM EDT reply actions
:)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers Bryzgalov is looking for. While most estimates are in the $5.5-6M range, I’ve heard some say he wants to be paid as a top player, not just a top goalie, which would push those numbers higher, but I imagine if he and his agent try that angle they’ll price themselves out of a deal with any NHL team.
Sarauj, Latvija!
The only hope is that he was basically extorting Phoenix to let him go to one of his choice teams – of which Philly was one. Perhaps he’ll accept some contract wher he gets $5m in salary, with a $1.5m bonus for every time his name appears on the Cup.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 8, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
What kinda crap is that? GEez – it’s like working for the damn City …
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 8, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone else think they make flip this guy elsewhere (a la Hamhuis) last year?
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
I do, or at least I think he’ll end up trying. I feel like he’s going to want way too much (both money and term), and I hope Homer is smart enough not to give it to him. But it’s early enough at this point for him to flip him like he did to Hamhuis last year.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 8, 2011 8:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe he has an NHL Network/Home and Garden show coming out called “Flip This FA”.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
by boknows71 on Jun 8, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The key part is this: I hope Homer is smart enough not to give it to him. But i think they are willing to get this guy or any top goalie at any cost, because you know Mr. Snider said so…..
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Glad to see you guys are finally stopping the bleeding in net. Bryz is the shit, it would be sweet to see him as a Flyer.
No it wouldn’t, if only because it means we won’t be seeing several current Flyers as Flyers anymore.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Sacrifices must be made.
People whine about not having a goalie, but then whine about trying to get one. Bottom line is, all the good young goalies aren’t going anywhere. They are good, young, and cheap. The only good goalies the Flyers have a chance at are guys in their prime, looking for top dollar. Until they go out and draft a Ryan Miller or a Miika Kiprusoff type, they will have this problem. This team feels goaltending is the final piece of the puzzle, the final piece to winning a cup. Yes, some people may have to go, but overall, the defense will not need to be “as talented” with a goalie of that caliber. They were there to make up for a young goalie.
And this move doesn’t even mean that IIya will be a Flyer. So lets wait until July 1st to see what happens. The Flyers did the same thing w/Nabakov, and he is most certainly not a Flyer. If Ilya wants to be a top 5 paid goalie, it sucks, but it is fair. If he wants to be paid like a top 5 player, well……don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
People whine about not having a goalie, but then whine about trying to get one.
Don’t lump Group A (“We need a goalie!”) in with Group B (“Bob is fine!”). The people whining about not having a goalie are not the ones whining about acquiring Bryzgalov.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
People whine about not having a goalie, but then whine about trying to get one.
Those would be two different groups of people.
all the good young goalies aren’t going anywhere. They are good, young, and cheap.Is it alright if I include Bob amongst the cheap, good, young goalies?
Until they go out and draft a Ryan Miller or a Miika Kiprusoff type, they will have this problem.How exactly does one do this? Is it that blatantly obvious when a player comes into the draft that he’s going to turn into Ryan Miller? I’d love to have that kind of foresight.
the defense will not need to be "as talented" with a goalie of that calibeNot sure I agree. I don’t care who your goalie is, you can’t hang him out to dry every night and expect wins.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
mornin y’all
do you poop on parties professionally, or do you just do it as a hobby?
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 8, 2011 8:51 AM EDT reply actions
Another draft pick sacrificed to the void…. My lord, the Flyers really hate draft picks don’t they?
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
unproven commodities etc
do you poop on parties professionally, or do you just do it as a hobby?
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 8, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
My lord, the Flyers really hate draft picks don’t they?
No, they actually really like having draft picks. But it’s in the same sort of way you like having a twenty-dollar bill: it’s not because that piece of paper is particularly useful to you, it’s because now you can go out to lunch again today instead of eating that stupid ham sandwich you brought to work.
I could live with this
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Simon Gagne ($2.250m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.850m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.500m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,326,932; BONUSES: $1,825,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $73,068
I guess you could swap Gagne and Zherdev with anyone else that might be a better value in that price range. Trade Hartnell to CBJ for their first, and throw in Shelley since they still like him out there. I still think paying a goalie that much is a bit ridiculous.
Is there a bonus cushion next year? I don’t think there is.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,326,932; BONUSES: $1,825,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $73,068
What can't Giroux do?
do not want
do you poop on parties professionally, or do you just do it as a hobby?
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 8, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure what you mean, I turned the Bonus Cushion off. When I turn it back on it says there is like $1.7 Million free.
by hebrew hammer on Jun 8, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
So the answer to my question is no. It was a general question, not specific to your proposed roster.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Oh ok. I think there has been talk that there isn’t a bonus cushion, so I haven’t been using it, but I haven’t gotten around to reading exactly what that means in the CBA.
by hebrew hammer on Jun 8, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
There is not a bonus cushion next year.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
We’ve generally been operating under the assumption that is not. I think DG agreed with you – which is kinda like getting the Papal stamp around here.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 8, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Know why? No Hartnell.
If Hartnell is the piece that moves, I’ll be largely okay with this move.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think that’s the dream. Too bad Z probably would not want to ever play here again.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Yeah, that would have been nice.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
But if he’s gone, can we replace him with a Tomas Holmstrom / Mike Knuble type who stands in front of the net on the power play? The Flyers would need someone in that mold instead of Zherdev.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
How are you paying for them? haha
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Tom Sestito. Done.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 8, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. But… small victories.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Carry 22 and replace Rinaldo with Sestito?
The team has to have at least one generic goon.
by hebrew hammer on Jun 8, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, so Geoff: what was this Twitter debate you were having with Dave Isaac last night? On the question of whether or not RFA’s count against the contract limit?
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He said the reason the Flyers didn’t sign Labrecque, Riopel, Eriksson, Bertilsson, etc. was because they didn’t have room in the 50-contract limit. But he was counting RFAs like Garrett Klotz, Darroll Powe, and Andreas Nodl as having contracts for 11-12. They don’t, and they aren’t charged to the 50-man limit.
But this was after he informed me that the Flyers traded Clackson because they were at 50 contracts for 10-11 and couldn’t take on Bryzgalov without giving up a contract.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
My guess: they got screwed by the June 1 deadline because those RFA guys all have contracts until July 1 (or whenever the deadline for qualifying offers is).
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 8, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh. They had 50 contracts when they signed Hovinen. They have 40 for next year, which Jen showed as more than everybody in the NHL.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Well yeah, they still screwed themselves either way. It’s their fault.
But that at least makes sense.
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 8, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
It depends what you’re talking about. The Flyers were precluded from signing their prospects because of the 50-contract limit. They simply decided to sign undrafted free agents instead of their draft picks.
And my comment was wrong: Hovinen didn’t count against the 10-11 limit when then had 50, he was #40 on the 11-12 limit.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
So Homer is taking a chance not signing his draft picks until after July1st, hoping he can sign the ones he may want later on (if any) as free agents. That’s an interesting calculated risk he may be taking there.
I meant “were not precluded from signing”.
On a clarification I fuck up. Moron.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Bad Morning everyone.
I woke up feeling grumpy and didn’t remember why. Then I remembered. Bryzgalov. No.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
just gotta wait until the start of the season. chances are you’ll see the same results as years before: make the playoffs, some foreseen flaw corrupting the whole
do you poop on parties professionally, or do you just do it as a hobby?
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 8, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
This happens to half the teams in the NHL each year, so you’ve got good odds of being correct.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
well i didn’t mean to be captain obvious, but it’s not like this move keeps this team from competing for a cup
do you poop on parties professionally, or do you just do it as a hobby?
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 8, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Bad Morning everyone.
Instantly made me think of this.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Ya know, you guys all need better AC apparently. It may be a change in philosophy, but landing (arguably) the most talented goalie in the league is HUGE. Yes – the rest of the team will have to change to accomodate the concomitant salary for said goaltender. But given that the Flyers had (again, arguably) the deepest NHL team at both forward and defense last season, there is room to trim a few players in order to solidify the goalie position. Think of it this way: the Flyers have four (4!) centers that could be in the top two of ANY team in the league. Surfeit of riches – but riches are only valuable if you use them to achieve your goals.
And yes, I am trying to put the best face on this – I argued against the need for a goalie in the recent few weeks. But once the deal is done, we had better make the best of it.
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
eh, see the fact that he didnt show up for the playoffs bothers me. Phoenix wasnt a bad, team either
do you poop on parties professionally, or do you just do it as a hobby?
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 8, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Once again, it all depends on what piece is removed from the roster in order to afford Bryzgalov. If it means Carter is gone, it’s not worth it. If it means Versteeg and Carle are gone, it means it’s a lateral move. If it means Hartnell is gone, I’m largely okay with it.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 8, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
What, that they won’t trade Hartnell before acquiring Bryzgalov’s rights and making it clear that they need to dump salary? Yeah, I’m afraid that won’t happen too.
by Eric T. on Jun 8, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
That’s pleasantly obscure, and yet wildly accurate. Two points.
“So you mean we subtract first? Whatever for???”
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 8, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is, the pieces we would liked to see moved, have tough contracts to move…and it’s not just because they have NTC/NMC, it’s because they are bad contracts in general.
But I’ll wait to see what happens. Trading some pieces would make me flip out, others I’d be fine with.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I’m an outsider, but I’m still really baffled at where all the ‘Trade Carter’ stuff is coming from. The media? I know the cap is tight, and NTC/NMC clauses present obstacles, but if Holmgren is in win-now mode, it seems to me like a 30+ goal scorer is the last guy who would be moved. Especially for picks and less proven young players.
The other thing I don’t understand is whether or not the Bryz move is even Holmgren’s idea. Did the owner give him any choice?
I will take my answers off the air. :)
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I think the goalie move was dictated by Snider. I don’t think Homer had much of a choice…that’s what I took out of the transcript. Everyone else took “this makes me even more nervous about Homer”…which is also fair.
If they trade Carter I will break one of my monitors.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Carter is not clutch. He scores a lot of goals, but he doesn't help us win. Especially in the playoffs.
Set your damn type to narrow! (I have no idea how to set my screen to ‘wide’.)
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 8, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of other casual fans around these parts—oh, let’s just say my husband, shall we?—said to this news, “So I guess they’re going to trade Richards, huh?” That was the latest rumor a few weeks ago.
I will lose my collective s*** if that happens.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
A guy on my hockey team said that last night. He said yeah, don’t trade Carter…at which point I was like okay, good, good start…then he finished with, they should trade Richards instead. Sigh.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
The hubby really doesn’t like to talk sports with me anymore because I’ve become a “stats nerd,” and he’s more old school. It’s why I come to the bolgs.
Also, trading either young player locked up long term—especially someone with a team-friendly contract like Richie’s—is a major mistake.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I did the bolg thing a la Zoo With Roy so as not to sound so serious…glad someone can laugh today. It’s been a rough one. A co-worker passed away and then my bosses father also died. Both succumbed to long bouts with cancer.
I wish cancer were a person so I could punch it in the face.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I lived under a rock (at work all day) yesterday and then didn’t have time to check the news this morning and I come home to the Bryz news. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks with Bryz. As others said above, my emotions will depend on who is traded to make room for him.
This may sound harsh, but I am really hoping we Hamhuis Bryz.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jun 8, 2011 12:57 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Good for Brindy. Bad for their team calendar (at least above the neck).
Maybe it should read "reformedpenguinsfan" since I have retired my Lemeiux jersey ... and purchased an Orange and Black Pronger jersey.
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 8, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The Gagne article
Concluded by saying it would be great if he could come back at the right price.
Duh.
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You're welcome, NBC and OTF
I was watching the SCF on Channel 4 in Nashville.
This is my Cerberus .sig, while the regular one is on the DL.
To everybody with the proper masthead powers....
So the Canucks are 2-0 in this round when we have a thread, and 0-2 when we don’t have one. Can we fix this for Game 5?
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