Monday Morning Fly By: Remember When Bobrovsky Won Rookie of the Month?
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- A look at the teams for today's scrimmage: [Philadelphia Flyers] [Philly Sports Daily]
- A knockoff jersey retailer is selling 2012 Winter Classic jerseys despite the Winter Classic not being announced by the NHL: [Philly Sports Daily]
- Sergei Bobrovsky could be on the trading block. Discussions about this: [Flyers Faithful] [Philly Reign]
- A video segment on Riley Cote, coach: [CSNPhilly]
- A video segment on Ian Laperriere, coach: [CSNPhilly]
- Erik Gustafsson wants to make the Flyers: [Philly Sports Daily]
- So does Matt Read: [Daily News]
- While Brayden Schenn has been to a few rookie camps, but it's still new to him this year: [Philly Sports Daily]
- Nick Luukko wants to be more than the boss' kid: [Inquirer]
- While the Devils are leaving Trenton, if a team remains, the Flyers would be open to signing an affiliation with them: [phillyBurbs.com]
- Jacob DeSerres and the Coyotes wrapped up their prospect camp, but not before Carl got to speak with him about his game, his path, the differences between the Flyers and Coyotes, and his favorite show*, One Tree Hill: [Five for Howling]
- A look at some of the players who have swapped jerseys this summer: [icethetics]
- Looking at who won and lost the free agent frenzy according to GVT. Hint: Flyers lost. Big. [Hockey Prospectus]
- Putting the free agent spending into graphic form: [Puck Daddy]
- The 2011 Organizational Rankings have the Flyers making a large jump: [Hockey Prospectus]
- Arguing that the NHLPA should fight for cap-circumventing, long-term contracts: [Puck Daddy]
- Another great analysis of relief goaltending: [Hockey Prospectus]
- Some defunct team comic book art: [Puck Daddy]
- There's a new NHL/KHL player agreement, and here's some analysis of it: [Puck Daddy]
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Bob.
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Giving up isn't an option
by Cillo stache on Jul 11, 2011 7:12 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I’d be sad if he left.
Eagles next starting QB: "East-West Shrine Game Legend" Mike Kafka
Flyers: Sigh
Phillies:Gah enough with the injuries!.
Remember when Bobrovsky was that exciting young goalie we wanted to watch blossom into our Goalie of the Future?
Remember when we saw article after article that showed us that Bobrovsky had exactly the right mix of humility and hard work that would make him into a quality goaltender?
Remember when we saw that Bobrosvky had done all his amazing work in Russia without a proper goalie coach and got excited about what he could do with one?
Remember when we saw that Bobrovsky could hold his own in the NHL while still adapting to North American rinks despite the fact that most European goaltenders require a year of North American rinks before performing properly?
I STIlLL REMEMBER. DO YOU PAUL HOLMGREN?
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 11, 2011 8:01 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I know right? Who can imagine me writing posts?
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Jul 11, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha – glad to see you’re back. Did you get that Bartulis-Bobby Clarke translation I sent you? Funny stuff.
Sarauj, Latvija!
I did! I’ve been meaning to put it up as a quote thing. Will sometime this week, hopefully…
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Jul 11, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No worries. Speaking of Latvian hockey players, a friend of mine is an Honorary Consul representing Latvia in the US. He’s based out of Chicago and recently set up a meeting between the Blackhawks management (Stan Bowman and Marc Bergevin) and Kirovs Lipmanis, head of the Latvian Hockey Federation in hopes of getting the Blackhawks interested in scouting some Latvian hockey prospects. While I certainly would rather see any decent hockey talent out of Latvia end up in the Flyers system, I’m glad that an NHL team is taking an interest.
Sarauj, Latvija!
I STIlLL REMEMBER. DO YOUPAUL HOLMGRENED SNIDER?
Fixed.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Case of the Mondays x 100000
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 8:24 AM EDT reply actions
i only work 4 10 hour days a week, still doesn’t keep mondays from sucking
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I would usually say “me too” but we have our Staff Softball game today so I’m kind of pumped.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 11, 2011 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Shaun Kreider, bench warmer?
/loljk
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Jul 11, 2011 9:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
All-time left fielder.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 11, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Just throw better than Raul “Lawn Dart” Ibanez.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jul 11, 2011 12:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Kreider, I know you’re having a blast. The greatest satisfaction i get at my job is that at the end of the day I go back to Counterstrike Source or either of the Left 4 Deads, or possibly, Killing Floor
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
You have no idea. We clinched the playoffs by winning the first half this past weekend. I was able to go down to the clubhouse and join in on the celebration. It was EPIC!
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 11, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to throw cake at you next time I see you
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha. Ummm oook…
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 11, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
you are seriously bringing me down 1000 notches. The only satisfaction I get is beating you in Words With Friends
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Aww. Sorry CCB. You do pretty much dominate me in Ww/F.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 11, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
For instance instead of going to Arts Fest this weekend in State College I’m choosing to buy a Cleveland Indians Jersey, the only problem is I don’t know which Major League character I want.
None of this is your fault.
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re in good hands with Cerrano.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 11, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s also a Goldberg jersey that exists, and ships out of the Phillipines
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a tough choice right now.
Leaning towards Cerrano though
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
UPDATE
I went 3 for 5 (would have been 4 for 5 but one of our players didn’t know how to play baseball so she stood on first and I had no chance of touching the plate so I was out) with an RBI, a run scored and a diving catch at first. It was tons of fun. Also, I tripped after scoring my run, went ass over teakettle and somehow scuffed both my elbows at the same time…..talent ladies and gentlemen….talent.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 11, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh, what Brook’s is saying about the next CBA is mild terrifying if you’re a Flyers fan.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Psh, like Flyers fans worry they don’t get their way.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
And if the NHL tries to push forth that type of CBA structure we should also be prepared for another work stoppage or strike shortened season the NHLPA should and will flip out. Is there any sport where the small market teams don’t get the short end of the stick. MLB, NBA, NHL all cater to the big market teams. I am not sure how the NFL works for small market teams but there will never to a fair system the best you can do is not put in a cap floor let teams who don’t want to spend money not spend money and cap the market for the big market teams to even the playing ground.
The Packers just won the Super Bowl, they are a small market team.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
ummm, what? Packers are one of the popular and profitable teams in football. Hell, they are probably right behind Dallas as the 2nd biggest team.
Samesis
JpH he’s right. And the Packers aren’t one of the more profitable teams. Though popular, they are a publically owned team. Their records are being used to support the owners’ position that profits are down and that they deserve that extra money hanging around
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Are they one of the most popular, nation-wide? Yes.
Are they a big-market team? No. Even if you give them the whole state of Wisconsin, it’s a smaller population than the Philadelphia metro area.
Are they one of the most profitable teams in football? No. Their revenues are tied for 15-17 with Cleveland and Tennessee — would you call those big-market teams? Their valuation is just behind Carolina and Tampa Bay, just ahead of Cleveland and Miami.
The NFL has a revenue sharing system that makes it possible for any team to spend to the cap, which makes it possible for a team in a small market like Green Bay to be competitive for years and become one of the most popular teams in football.
by Eric T. on Jul 11, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I am for more revenue sharing like the NFL where the league is the business more so than individual teams. As long as the league does well as a whole everyone can surive and if a market truely sucks like maybe Phx it is in the league’s best interest to move the team.
Also, I’d love to have a soft cap + luxury tax over this hard cap nonsense any day. Snider’s pockets are deep enough. We’d just buy whatever the hell we wanted.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
A lot of teams have those deep pockets. A lot of Billionaire owners. The only thing WIP has ever said correctly is that NBA and even the NHL as an owner you shouldn’t be looking to profit hugely each year in revenue. The profit is made when you sell the team. As the value of the teams always go up even teams that don’t make a lot of money.
Meh, that’s a nonsense argument unless the team has access to other revenue streams.Sure, maybe tickets are not profitable, but what about tickets and TV rights? If not ticket and TV rights, what about tickets, TV rights and merchandise? Then some team are also owned by the arena owner, so its tickets. TV, merch and concessions. When you look at all of those, and then see a loss, the team isn’t worth much because if you project losses for several years who would want to buy it at its current value and as the current ownership continues to eat losses, they will want to get rid of the white elephant.
Alot of the big market and possibly the canadian teams, are profitable when you consider all revenue streams. But do you honestly think a team like Phoenix, ersatz Winnipeg, Florida, Islanders are profitable when you consider all revenue streams? I don’t think so, they are lucky they break even. Some are eating the losses because they believe they can make the team competitive, enhance revenue streams, and obtain long term profitability (though I think Phoenix is more about screwing Balsillie, preventing future bankruptcy shenanigans, and appeasing Maple Leafs ownership).
Or like the NFL don’t average the contract value the salary for the year is the cap hit. Teams could then front load contracts in years they have room to spend and potentially backload RFA deals so they can keep their young guys while the older contracts expire or cap hit drops as the years go on. It makes prefect sense to me.
For example Danny B makes 10 million when Giroux is a rookie and making 850K 3 years later when Giroux’s ELC contract is up Danny B’s front loaded salary decrease to 7 million and Giroux can sign for 4 million and the total cap hit between the two players is still 11 million.
Smart GMs can structure contracts around the team makeup and no team in any single season will be able to spend more than any other which is the main issue for the small market teams who can’t afford to spend to cap each year who are competing for UFA’s with teams that will spend over the cap each year with front loading deals.
Or like the NFL don’t average the contract value the salary for the year is the cap hit.
This is not how the NFL works. The NFL averages the contract value to get the cap hit, just like the NHL.
The difference — and it’s one I’ve been advocating for the NHL to consider — is that when a player leaves your team (gets cut, traded, retires, whatever) then there’s a reckoning, where any money that has been paid to the player but not counted on the cap gets added on to the following year’s cap. So if a contract goes 6M-6M-2M-2M for a 4M/year cap hit, and the guy gets traded after the second year — when he’s been paid $12M total but only counted $8M against the cap, the remaining $4M would be dead money on the year 3 cap.
This is not how the NFL works. The NFL averages the contract value to get the cap hit, just like the NHL.
Correct if I am wrong. But they don’t factor in the “signing bonuses” and given that the signing bonus is so much of the contract it is a true average.
And I agree with Hitnzy that would be a interesting Idea and lead to lots of trades to save money I will trade you Brad Richards that not counts at 2 million for Havlat that not counts at two million versus each of us having to count them at 6 million as an example.
Correct if I am wrong. But they don’t factor in the "signing bonuses"
That’s actually the only part that gets averaged. I actually misstated it above (sorry, I was describing how I think the NHL should do it and implied that it was how the NFL actually does it) — in the NFL, a player who signs a 5-year deal with a $10M signing bonus and $1M salaries each year has a cap hit of $3M each year, and if he gets traded after year 2 then the $6M that hasn’t been accounted for yet falls as dead money on the year 3 cap.
I almost had an elevator shut on me this morning as I was passing through its doorway. The Flyers will adjust, blah blah blah
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Bobs fishie is saddened at the possibility of trading his name buddy.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Jul 11, 2011 9:07 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Camp Update: Rinaldo is the best player on the ice. He’s laid out about 5 nice hits so far. Testawude scored a fancy goal, 1-0 white team
Samesis
again, why the hell do people pay attention to that waste?
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
when the only good thing you can say about a player is that he’s cheaper than the bum you have now…it’s not really an upgrade
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
But in theory it gives you cap space to upgrade elsewhere.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jul 11, 2011 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
to the tune of 550k.
if that makes you sleep well at night, then so be it
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Only time you get to see Rinaldo hit people and not get penalized?
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
you are on vacation at a nice beach. go away from your computer
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
No, they trade them to Tampa for Matt Carle, where they finally earn their salaries.
by hebrew hammer on Jul 11, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
What’s a preseason game other than a scrimmage between two teams instead of between the players of one team? :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Or in Windsor Spitfires practice, depends on what you consider “crossing the line.”
by hebrew hammer on Jul 11, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Borntrade
By the way – www.borntrade.com was seized by the DOJ and Customs for IP fraud.
They’ve moved to borntradejerseys.com,which I’m sure will be an impossible trail for the g-men to follow. Good luck getting a jersey from them.
I love the smell of the government overstepping their bounds in the morning. Smells like…Police State
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Planning the next generation of Phantoms scorers, eh?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Schenn is doing everything. He has three goals and an assist. While not against NHL competition, this guy is from all reports putting on a clinic.
by Bob's Crab Emporium on Jul 11, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
By no way do I want to sound like a “front office apologist,” but I just wonder if you guys will ever be satisfied with a move they make. Granted, this offseason has been easily the most ridiculous of my memory with the turnover rate and whatnot but I am speaking just in terms of the goaltenders.
Do I want Bobrovsky to get moved? Absolutely not. But time will only tell if he will turn out to be the goalie we all believe he is going to be. We spent DECADES without going to get a #1 goalie and now that we have one, it just seems like it’s not good enough for the fans? I realize Bryz is very high-priced, magnified by the other amounts that goalies went for after July 1st.
What is it going to take? I know you can’t always please everybody. Is it perhaps some emotions from the Richards/Carter trades that are spewing over onto the view of Bryzgalov?
"Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"
by PraiseMartyMoose on Jul 11, 2011 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think there’s been a lot of posts showing there’s no guarantee that Bryzgalov plays as well as he has in Phoenix (comparisons to Giguere’s career path), and the fact that we’ve invested so much money in the position when we possibly didn’t need to.
But yes I’m sure there are some Richards emotions spilling over.
I’m excited, but moreso about 2 years from now than this year. Of course by then Timonen will probably be retired, Pronger fairly useless.. but hey, we’ll just trade all the picks we acquired for another Pronger! I do like that we’re stockpilng picks though.
But yes I’m sure there are some Richards emotions spilling over.
Yeah, I think there is a bit of a cumulative effect to having so many big moves made in such a short time. We’re not having any time to get over one trade before we’re hit with the next one.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
By no way do I want to sound like a "front office apologist," but I just wonder if you guys will ever be satisfied with a move they make.
There have certainly been dissenting opinions, but it’s true that in general this site has been unhappy with most of the moves made over the last two off-seasons. But even with the benefit of hindsight on last year’s moves, I still think the Leighton deal still looks atrocious, the Zherdev signing was brilliant except that they apparently didn’t bother to find out whether the coach would ever play him first, and the Meszaros deal was a good one but should have been handled in such a way that allowed the Flyers to get a better (or at least a net positive) return on Gagne.
Do I want Bobrovsky to get moved? Absolutely not. But time will only tell if he will turn out to be the goalie we all believe he is going to be.
Completely agree. He had a very strong first year and I would’ve liked to see his second, but it’s completely true that it could still go bad from here.
We spent DECADES without going to get a #1 goalie
This is where we diverge. The Flyers had Marty Biron, whose .921 career ESS% makes him a solid #1 goalie — and in his two years in Philly he was 13th and 18th in the league in save percentage, which makes him easily a legitimate #1. They had Roman Cechmanek, whose .931 ESS% ranks behind only Hasek and Thomas among goalies with at least 200 games since they started keeping the stat in ’98. The narrative here is overtaking the facts.
it just seems like it’s not good enough for the fans? I realize Bryz is very high-priced, magnified by the other amounts that goalies went for after July 1st.
This is exactly the reason people here are unhappy about it. If he cost $3M, people would be fine with it. But he costs a lot more than that, and that extra cost — for a team that’s up against the salary cap — means his acquisition will hurt the team in lost assets elsewhere more than he will help them.
What is it going to take? I know you can’t always please everybody. Is it perhaps some emotions from the Richards/Carter trades that are spewing over onto the view of Bryzgalov?
Just so we’re clear, Geoff was arguing against this acquisition long before it was made, long before we even imagined it would lead to Richards being shipped out. This is not an emotional viewpoint; it is a rational one.
by Eric T. on Jul 11, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
No reason to post a response with this already posted.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
by DLJr on Jul 11, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
kiss-ass lol
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s like you’ve become a combination of Vansteel and me since you started your job. I’m worried about you.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
I have flashes of being a cheery person. Truth is, I can only take so much bullshit, whether it be sentimental, statistical or just the sheer fact that the person across from me doesn’t know what they’re talking about. In my personal life, it’s often the 3rd one, and on this site it’s the first 2.
No, I don’t care if you’re a Pens fan and you think the money you paid Michalek and Martin was well worth it. It wasn’t and you should take off your steel brimmed rose colored lenses and be objective for once. If you think that Michalek is one of the best defenseman in the league, you are an idiot, and may God have mercy on your soul
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll give you Marty, if not just for the dreamy eyes. But I never really felt secure with Cechmanek in net. Yes, he has good numbers but I don’t believe that numbers alone should be the measuring stick to a #1 goalie. There are many shades of grey where people would/could give their views so I won’t start that argument.
But maybe the fact that Roman was batshit crazy is why I never got behind him.
"Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"
by PraiseMartyMoose on Jul 11, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
So, may I ask you, what other than the numbers on Bryz makes you feel that he passes the point on the measuring stick that he is a #1 if Cech’s numbers didn’t do it for you?
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Ilya here’s got a job. Ilya’s got prospects. He’s bona fide!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Taking into account the team that was in front of him for his time in Phoenix and watching him play, I saw him make saves that not many goalies could make, let alone be put in that position in the first place, consistently. Cechmanek came on like gangbusters when he was here, but was equally horrible at times as well.
To me, a #1 doesn’t play himself out of the NHL within 4 years.
"Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"
by PraiseMartyMoose on Jul 11, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
So Bryz gets a pass because he’s playing with Phoenix, but Cechmanek is to blame for the Flyers only scoring two goals en route to losing to Ottawa in five games. Gotcha.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
by hintzy64 on Jul 11, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is not at all what I was trying to say. I didn’t mean to somehow start the Bryzgalov/Cechmanek argument. I was just trying to get some clarification on what the FO would have to do to please you guys. Because it at least seems like it will never happen.
"Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"
by PraiseMartyMoose on Jul 11, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yet the ironic thing is we have been pleased with our past #1’s, yet the majority of this town (yourself included) constantly claims we haven’t had one since either Hextall, Linbergh, or Parent. So you have been just as displeased, despite given elite goaltending, with the #1 position as we have been with complaining about cap space versus additional value.
Seems a bit hypocritical if you ask me; where we have given the FO credit for having #1 goaltending you haven’t, where you now say sweet a #1, we say, you over paid for what you got in terms of added value. How is that different?
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
I’m telling you, we give Montreal crap over the way their fans treat Carey Price, and Huet before him, but we’re just as bad. We all love our shiny new #1 goalie and sing his praises until he fails to win us a Stanley Cup, and then he is nothing but garbage and we never liked him in the first place. If we don’t win the Cup with Bryz within a year (two, if he’s lucky), we’ll do the exact same thing to him.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
maybe people are still supporting Checkmanek and even Biron around here but in general like you said the MSM will be all over this guy as soon as he gives up a soft goal
That implies consistency among the MSM.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Lack of goaltending ability seems to be a fairly consistent shibboleth among the local MSM.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jul 11, 2011 12:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You call it supporting, I call it reminding people of what actually happened instead of the hackneyed narrative that conveniently fits their argument. ;-)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
agreed
but I was the team better with Esche versus Checkmanek maybe so even though Checkmanek is a vastly superior goaltender.
Hey, wait!!! How am I ever supposed to make an srgument then???
:)
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess he failed to read the fine print. Happens every time.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
To wit...
Under section 37B of the contract signed by him, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if – and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy – “I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein and herein contained,” et cetera, et cetera… “Fax mentis, incendium gloria cultum,” et cetera, et cetera… Memo bis punitor delicatum! It’s all there! Black and white, clear as crystal!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
by hintzy64 on Jul 11, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Willy Wonka reference WIN.
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Seconded. Only thing missing from that movie was Marty Feldman.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Pshaw.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Well let’s move on from Cechmanek, then. Your statement was that we’d gone DECADES without trying to get a #1 goalie. Biron is even more recent than Cechmanek. We can argue and nitpick over how various goalies’ careers ended up playing out in Philadelphia all day, because now we have hindsight. The point is that going for a #1 goalie, either via trade or home-grown, is not something we’ve ignored for eons. As for this:
I was just trying to get some clarification on what the FO would have to do to please you guys. Because it at least seems like it will never happen.I reserve the right to question and grumble over any move made by the front office for all eternity. :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Deal. I think South Park put it best when they said “Robble robble robble.”
And I gave you Biron :) Still miss that guy.
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by PraiseMartyMoose on Jul 11, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s already been brought up several times, but the team he played out on Phoenix last year gave up shots from farther out than in Philly last year. So he might be put in a harder situation here.
So you watched more Coyotes games than Flyers games? Or are you mostly watching highlight packages? Either way, your selective perception says Bryz made saves that most other goalies couldn’t, and never remembered much of that from Cech; about right?
To me, a #1 doesn’t usually come over at age 29 to start in the NHL and excel. They also don’t usually come here just to see if they have what it takes to excel in the best league in the world. To say he played himself out of the NHL is ignoring his age when he came over, ignoring his reason for coming over, and ignoring that his last year was the year before the lockout (so you don’t know if there wasn’t a lock out, he may have stayed in NA). So to say he played his way out of the NHL is a bit naive and shortsighted.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
To me, a #1 doesn’t play himself out of the NHL within 4 years.
This implies that Roman Chechmanek played himself out of the NHL. Unfortunately, it was the lockout that drove him out of the NHL. He had a 0.929 ESS% his final NHL season. That was tied for 7th in the league among those with 36 or more starts.
Roman Cechmanek didn’t play himself out of the NHL.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Put it this way the Flyer teams Roman played for would not have had the success they did with out him. Hell all goalies are batshit crazy even Bernie he had to nap with a German Sheppard before every game….
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by George E. Ays on Jul 11, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
But I never really felt secure with Cechmanek in net. Yes, he has good numbers but I don’t believe that numbers alone should be the measuring stick to a #1 goalie.
But maybe the fact that Roman was batshit crazy is why I never got behind him.
Again, this is narrative overtaking the facts. He was drafted in 2000. That very same year, he stole the starting job from Boucher, played in the All-Star Game, and was second in the voting for the Vezina. He was the #1 goalie before anyone could come to any conclusions about his personality “flaws.”
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Look, all I’m saying is it’s very easy to dismiss Cechmanek as “batshit crazy” and say you never felt good about him because of how the media and fans tore him apart during his third season with the team and after his departure. But you don’t get to be starter on the team for three consecutive seasons and put up numbers like that if you’re not #1 material to start with. You’re remembering the final outcome and ignoring everything that came before it.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Rec’d if for no other reason than this:
This is not an emotional viewpoint; it is a rational one.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
My question to you is ESS% the best way to evaluate a goaltender? If Marty Biron should be a number 1 why the hell hasn’t he anywhere in the league. You could figure someone out there would give him a chance. Maybe not the Flyers they are poor at evaluating talent.
Also maybe Giguere is the exception not the rule. Miller, Lundquist, Luongo and many other top goalies who were once compared to Giguere have all been able to have a consistent careers where as Giguere dropped off. Also other goalies in the past where able to continue their success after leaving their original teams, like CuJo as one example to comes to mind.
He wasn’t #1 in Buffalo for ~3-4 years between Hasek and Miller?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
He was. Three years, from 01-04, then the #1 in Philly for two years.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
How is it fair to pin the Sabres’ record over 4 seasons on Biron? Especially since so many people around here want to give Bryz a pass because of the “Phoenix team in front of him.” That’s a bullshit argument. So the Sabres struggled for a few years. He was still their #1 goalie. And you said he’d never been one anywhere in the league.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Goalposts: Moved.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Me? Dammit.
Chris stated that if Biron’s numbers indicated he should be a #1 goalie, why wasn’t he ever one. I responded that he was one in Buffalo. Which he answers by posting the Sabres record. My point still stands that he still was their #1 starting goalie for 4 years, which is all I wanted to point out in the first place.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I think Geoff was adding to your comment, not replying to it. i.e. I think he was labeling lanci the postmover.
I knew he was a starter in Buffalo yet he probably had his best year especially his playoff run as a Flyer and I am curious of why Tampa or another team give him a chance when they elected to go after guys who proven to do a lot less, like Mike Smith or Dan Ellis for example with Tampa.
What George said below.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
What Eric said.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, bull. Come on. You don’t post something without intending some meaning to be read from it. :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
You didn’t say that before. And you posted that alongside the Sabres less-than-stellar record after questioning whether sv% was a good measure of a #1 goalie and wondering why nobody had ever made Biron a #1 goalie. Am I reading too much into what it looks like you were implying?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
ESS% I questioned. I like overall better and I don’t know why ESS% is used PP and PK goals count the same. Maybe situationally sv pct would be interesting to like SV pct when tied or when there is a 1 goal game.
You didn’t say that before. And you posted that alongside the Sabres less-than-stellar record after questioning whethersv%ESS% was a good measure of a #1 goalie and wondering why nobody had ever made Biron a #1 goalie. Am I reading too much into what it looks like you were implying?
Fine, better?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I like Biron and would have been fine with him for another two runs if he would have signed for 2.0 – 3.0 but number 1 goalies who start 50+ games in there early 30’s are looking for much more money.
And… drumroll… they don’t get it. Unless the Flyers give it to them.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe because in the last two season no goalie who the league considers to be a true number one in there early 30’s has reached to UFA market.
Just because Biron didn’t get a big contract elsewhere doesn’t mean Brzy would have or Miller Lundquist and the other won’t in a couple of years.
Vokoun?
“Early 30s” only matters if you think locking yourself into a long term contract is the best way to maintain solid goaltending.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
early 30’s there is a different market place for the goalie a team that is still rebuilding will sign a Brzy to a long term deal at big dollars to build around because they can get several good years out them whereas they won’t spend big dollars on older guys short team like Vokoun and Nabokov because that doesn’t really help them as much since they are building for one or two years away from being competetive and the older guys also have already made tons of money and prefer to play for a playoff time that has a chance to win.
Nabokov signing in Florida as an example.
a team that is still rebuilding will sign a Brzy to a long term deal at big dollars to build around because they can get several good years out them
I didn’t realize this was a rebuilding period for the Flyers, I thought we were fairly good. Shows how much I know. :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Early 30s matters, you’re right. But you are trying too hard to force an absolute to fit your preconceived notion.
a team that is still rebuilding will sign a Brzy to a long term deal at big dollars to build around
Or they don’t want to waste money on a guy who won’t help them get better. Ilya Bryzgalov won’t make the Avalanche better, and even if you get Craig Anderson to perform way above his head and take you to the playoffs, your team is still really bad.
they won’t spend big dollars on older guys short team like Vokoun and Nabokov because that doesn’t really help them as much since they are building for one or two years away from being competetive
This makes a lot more sense than a 9 year deal because it a) is a stop-gap for them in net; b) It helps them reach the floor; and c) It gives their fans a reason to get excited, even if the team knows that’s not going to last.
Basically, it isn’t black and white like you pretend it is. All teams are different, and the exact opposite of what you say is equally true.
Nabokov signing in Florida as an example.
Uh, what?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Nabokov signing in Florida as an example.
Yeah, didn’t you know? Eklund reports it as an e-whatever. Bleacher Report says it’s a done deal.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
In 2007 Florida a a rebuilding team was willing to not only part with a number 1 draft pick (number 9 overall) and second round pick the following year an a conditional pick they were also willing to signing Vokoun (early 30’s) to a 5.7 million dollar cap hit contract.
haha, how’d that work out for them?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That wasn’t my point the point was it is not just the Flyers who would have been willing to sign Brzy for what he got.
I agree the total contract value might be less elsewhere but the cap hit is about right.
That wasn’t my point the point was it is not just the Flyers who would have been willing to sign Brzy for what he got.
I’ve never disagreed with this.
I agree the total contract value might be less elsewhere but the cap hit is about right.
This is where we disagree.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
To me, the key point on the cap hit is that if you think 5.7M is what he’s worth and who cares about the fake years at the end, then why couldn’t we sign him to a deal where he’s paid 5.7M with fake years at the end to lower his cap hit to 4.5M?
I’m sure there’s a response to this…
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Because we had to overpay him up front to keep him from testing the open market come July 1st. Similar to the Hartnell and Kimmo type deals we signed.
OK. So we’re all agreed that the 5.7M cap hit represents an overpay of at least a million dollars and maybe more. Done, book it, let’s move on.
hahaha, good answer.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
LANCI RETREAT! LANCI RETREAT!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I said overpay him upfront I am not retreating yet. Look at it again. So they overpaid him up front and then had to extend him long to make the cap hit reasonable again. But overall yes the total amount on the contract is an overpayment but the cap hit is where I would have liked it for 4-5 years.
lock one in by overpaying a talented one
And in the comment you’re referring to, you still admit it’s an overpayment. I don’t care how you wish to rationalize or explain it away – which is the retreat I’m referring to.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Vokoun, Turco, Nabokov, Giguere, Anderson, Roloson, Niemi, Howard…
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Niemi and Howard were not UFA’s when they signed all the others over
Vokoun 36
Turco 35
Giguere 34
Anderson is the only one
Roloson 39
In the last three years, how many goalies – of any age, any FA status – signed for more than $3 million? In three years.
The answer is two. Khabibulin and Thomas.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
And how many goalies reached FA status during that period have Brzy like credentials are comparable in talent that got number starting goalie jobs.
The actual question is how many goalies reached FA status with credentials at least half as good as Bryz, because paying a slightly worse goaltender slightly less money, but still more than 3 mil, is an option.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
This often gets lost. The whole “Who cares if Bryzgalov’s talent was worth $5.67 million in 2007, the Flyers don’t have to pay that since nobody else has since then.”
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
A player is worth what teams are willing to pay I truly believe other teams where willing to pay more or as much for Brzy and Brzy at this point in his career at his age isn’t likely to sign for a discount to play for a contender.
And the Flyers should have let that other team overpay Bryzgalov.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed and after 6 years of trying that the Flyers decided to stop juggling goalies and lock one in by overpaying a talented one hopefully it all works out
after 6 years of trying that the Flyers decided to stop juggling goalies
I’m not so sure that’s what the Flyers were doing, but fair enough. Just because they weren’t getting the result only one team a year can get doesn’t mean they were working with the wrong model, though.
hopefully it all works out
Troof.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
only DET can win with cheap goaltender everyone else wins with a red hot rookie BOB isn’t a rookie next year and The Flyers aren’t DET hence it is time to pay a goalie.
This logic is so terrible, I’m just going to repeat:
You admitted the Flyers overpaid. Fantastic.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
ZOMGZ
by overpaying
WIN. WIN. WIN. WIN. WIN.
Thank you for admitting this. I can move on now.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not what you said. At all.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, unfortunately he gets 7.6M over those first four years, so I guess you agree that he’s overpaid by 2.1M per year over that stretch.
Then he has a 6M, 5.5M, 5.5M stretch that you don’t like because it’s too many years (and probably too much money for the last years of his career, if 5.5M is fair value now).
And then he has the 2.25M, 1.25M years on the end to lower the cap hit, which we could’ve had even if the first four years were fair value, so that it would’ve looked more like the Carter deal and less like Briere.
by Eric T. on Jul 11, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
/slow clap
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
And how many goalies reached FA status
When Bryzgalov doesn’t even do this, why should that be a limitation to the search?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I would take Anderson as the starter, but like I’ve said before, I don’t want to hear us complain and bitch for the next few years over the signing. Im contempt now with Bryz.
Samesis
Im contempt now with Bryz.
Nice typo.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Im contempt now with Bryz.
This might trump the earlier typo about “get this guy up her.” Might.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Yeah but since his stellar run with the Flyers why hasn’t he got a chance again with so many bad goalies in the league?
Probably because his number in 08-09 got worse, and he seemed to be on a slight decline but still wanted to get paid $$$.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
That is the problem once you get a guy who is your clear number 1 they want to be paid like everyone else’s number 1 and it if you want to keep Biron or BOB or whoever has put up good numbers and started 50+ games for you are going to have to overpay to keep them. Unless they are a RFA or you give a career journeymen a long term deal.
See above.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because people have shown that ESS% is the best future predictor of goaltender performance does not mean that is what GMs are using to assign value to the position. (Eric’s post on the scatter nature of ESS Sv% vs dollars spent should prove that sufficiently)
There could be any of a 100 reasons why Biron is not seen as a starter now. Prospects that need an opening, Biron’s personality, rebound control, who the heck knows.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 11, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You made that look pretty easy.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
If this is sarcasm, it gets +1.
If not, it gets facepalm.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
On the Bob front, it’s because he was ours first. Any team can lure a big name free agent with enough cash, it’s different when you develop the talent.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Any team can lure a big name free agent with enough cash
Yes, but only the Islanders can injure them and turn their contract into a league-wide joke before the season is halfway over. ;-)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
garth snow must have a hard on for below average goalies like himself.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
it’s all I had, I’m just glad it worked. I mean what else could you burn garth snow with?
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
I’m not aware that snow burns.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well played.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Liquid nitrogen burn!
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Now you’re being silly. Or very technical. Take your pick.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
points to username
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Well shit – if everyone went by usernames, I’d be in the wrong room, Mr. ‘ItsAFez66’ ….
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
...
1) BSH Username, not the one in my signature, haha.
2) Me = female.
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Apologies for the gender mixup. And yes, I’m feeling particularly obtuse this Monday.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
We spent DECADES without going to get a #1 goalie
I’ll argue, once again, that this isn’t true. The first two examples that come to mind for me are Vanbiesbrouck and Biron. They were brought in to be #1 goalies. Some (including myself, in the past) would argue that we’ve never gone for home-grown talent in net, but this isn’t true either. Hextall and Cechmanek being two examples of players we drafted and turned into #1 goalies.
For me, the frustration is that Bob showed tremendous potential this year and it looks (if the “trading block” rumors are true) like we’re going to toss that potential by the wayside, along with a boatload of cash, to try to buy good goaltending, which may or may not prove to be any better than Bob would have been. Goalies are a tricky and unpredictable thing. We could be right about the potential we see in Bob and he will turn out to be great, or we could be wrong and he goes nowhere. But the same is true of Bryzgalov. Call him “proven” as much as you like, that makes no guarantee on how his numbers will be this year or any year beyond that. So we’re dealing with two goalies who put up good numbers last year, and may or may not put up better or worse numbers this year. The difference is that many, if not all of us, have grown very fond of Bob this year for one reason or another, from watching him in net to reading/listening to his interviews, and, more importantly, Bob costs a hell of a lot less, so that money could have been put to good use elsewhere on the team. We’re tying up a large chunk of our salary cap in one guy, who plays the most unpredictable position in the game. That sounds like a bit of a gamble to me.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Oops, sophiejo’d. That was in response to PraiseMartyMoose.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Woulda been better if you DELIBERATELY sophiejo’d this one :)
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Never admit you bailed on a triple sophiejo.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jul 12, 2011 12:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hockey prospectus analysis
Just saw a Bill Meltzer blog on hockeybuzz (http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Meltzers-Musings-71111/45/37019) and it got me thinking about the dire hockey prospectus predictions/analysis for the coming season. To paraphrase Meltzer’s blog, pre-season predictions from the past had codemned some flyers cup teams (1979-80 and 1984-5 specifically) to mediocrity so sometimes consensus predictions are less valuable then they seem (or there are other variables I guess that weren’t accounted for) so this team may be better than pundits say. This notwithstanding, the hockey prospectus thing is grounded in some hard headed number crunching so it would seem to be a reasonable estimate. How far back retrospectively can one do GVT analysis and the like? I ask because, despite the fact that i know we’ve lost a bunch of goals and Pronger may be still injured at the start of the year, I can easily talk myself into this team being a cup contender after all the pieces fall into their required places. Just wondering if I can mathematically justify my warm fuzzy feelings or if I should drink a big slug of pragamatism.
Not getting into the specifics of your question, but here’s a broad counter-argument to the Hockey Prospectus GVT claim that may help justify your warm fuzzy feelings:
Brayden Schenn isn’t accounted for there because he only played 9 games last year. Two, it isn’t a prediction, it’s simply adding up what the Flyers lost and adding what they gained. Three, Jagr isn’t included. Four, Voracek, JVR, and Giroux will be given more ice time, and in some cases, better opportunities to succeed.
The one I least believe in is four, mostly because the increased PP time and/or teammate improvement could very easily be offset by tougher competition and zone starts. But I think the top three are good enough to allay your fears.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Letting Bobrovsky go...
Would be about as disappointing as letting Casey Anthony go.
…too soon?
Oh dear god can I go anywhere without seeing something about that?
Anyone for calling a moratorium on Casey Anthony references?
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Jul 11, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
As someone who lives in central Florida:
1. Suck it up, we had that media circus for 3 1/2 years.
2. YES! to the moratorium (see 1)
Bob.
by The Dark on Jul 11, 2011 12:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
May not live there, but the story’s been in the news anyway forever.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
“Once the joke is out there, a parenthetical can’t take it away.”
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Who’s Casey Anthony, and more importantly why should I care?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
a girl who may or may not have killed her daughter and her husband may or may not have been a sherrif who may or may not have had the body in his trunk for a few days and who may or may not have dumped the body nearby the home where she may or may not have been murdered or drowned.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
and more importantly why should I care?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
DING
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
This is Casey Anthony and depending on who you ask depends on why you should care.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Hmmm … so another tabloid story masquerading as news. No thanks.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s a Goldberg #33 jersey on ebay with the old school Mighty Ducks colors. Might have to invest
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 12:01 PM EDT reply actions
So just how shitty of a return would we get for BOB if he goes? Or would it not necessarily be shitty?
Anywhere from “stellar” to “shitty”.
Hope that answers your question. :p
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don’t see stellar as an option here.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Getting a 1st and a 2nd or 3rd from a team who drafted in the lottery last year is stellar to me. (Varlamov trade).
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
If we could get that I’d definitely take it. I doubt we’re going to get something that good, seems more like a 2nd/3rd or 2nd/4th, which I guess we’d have to be alright with. But at this point I’d rather just keep Bob and hope Bryz is cool with playing 55-60 games instead of ~70. There was just that article today where he said fatigue might’ve been a factor in recent playoffs. If he and Bob develop a good relationship that could be awesome.
I was under the impression that, from one of the articles about BOB, he had to go for cap reasons. If we can keep then great. If they eventually move him it’d be nice to do so when the team has some leverage.
Our cap is fine (as of today). The only “problem” is that as things stand he’s the second most expensive backup goaltender in the league, and we could easily shave 750 – 1 mil off our cap number by moving him, plus it might make sense in order for his career not to stall and stuff.
But we also don’t know if they can’t shave off $750k on Day 2 of the season by keeping him.
Nobody knows what his bonuses are, which are what make his cap hit $1.75m. For all we know, he has a $800k bonus for winning the Calder Trophy.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, another level of FTW. I’m impressed. It’s performance art at this point. Or maybe some wacky cap related adjustment – yep, performance art it is.
haha, I’m 99% sure he doesn’t have an $800k bonus for winning the Calder. But… we don’t know.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
For cap calculation purposes, wouldn’t the Flyers have removed a bonus no longer attainable in order to reduce the cap hit?
Pretty sure that doesn’t become unattainable until Day 2.
But again, I don’t know.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought he already appeared in enough games last year that he can no longer classify as a rookie, at least for Calder consideration.
Not sure what the number requirement is for Calder, but he lost waiver eligibility last year.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Per Wiki:
“To be eligible for the award, a player cannot have played any more than 25 games previously in any single season, nor have played in more than six games in each of two separate preceding seasons in any major professional league.”
That last part is why Gretzky didn’t qualify, despite scoring 137 points in his first NHL season.
You can’t have any single bonus worth that much money; your bonus amount has to be made up of several smaller ones.
Unfortunately, the chapter on Performance Bonuses isn’t all that high on the CBA FAQ priority list right now… I’ll try to see if I can move them up a little, but I really want to knock out the rest of RFAs, UFAs and Arbitration before I start jumping all over the place.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 11, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
No worries.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 12, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Getting a 1st and a 2nd or 3rd from a team who drafted will draft in the lottery last of that year is stellar to me. (Varlamov trade).
FTFY
Colorado had the second pick last year, so I’d rather stay factually accurate rather than assume they draft in the lottery again (though that’s safe.)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
COL had some pretty horrific injury luck last year. If that turns around, they have a good chance at avoiding the lottery.
Although they have Varly and Giggy in net, so injuries at a key position aren’t totally out of the question.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
COL had some pretty fantastic luck the year before. I’m not even going to predict what they do next year, but if they had shitty luck last year, it was “well deserved.”
(Shut up Eric, I don’t need a lecture on the coin’s memory.)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure. Go.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
From an article about solar water heaters:
Incentive amounts vary, with a “typical” incentive being about $2,000.
For some reason, this writer wanted to highlight the word “typical,” so he put it in quotation marks. However, when you want to highlight something, you’re supposed to use italics or perhaps underlining. This sentence would be better with no quotation marks. In this case, I don’t see the need for italics or underlining. This just seems like a normal sentence.
You use quotation marks to quote what someone says, or to indicate you’re taking liberties with your description. For example, if you say, He was “a woman,” then he really isn’t a woman, but perhaps he is dressed up that way or affecting a high voice.
Many times I see the word free in quotation marks, as in Your next meal is “free.” This actually means not free.
So, if you want to highlight something, don’t use quotation marks. Use italics or underlining, or perhaps reword the sentence.
I used quotations, not to imply the opposite, but to imply that there is no such thing as deserved luck.
Should I have instead put it in sarcasm font?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. It’s not so much that your quotation marks were incorrect in that sentence, more that they’ve been in every damn comment you’ve posted today. (Note for the semantically-inclined: the previous sentence is not literally true, but exaggerated for effect.)
Good thing you added that "note".
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
How about a lecture on the "overuse of quotation marks"?
Since you put that in quotation marks, does that mean he’s not really overusing them at all?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
by hintzy64 on Jul 11, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very nice.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, and I don’t think there’s even a slim chance of that happening. I think Varlamov had more worth and trading with Colorado is like trading with the AI in NHL 95.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Career GP W L OT SO GAA SV%
Varmalov 59 30 11 5 4 2.39 .917
Bob 54 28 13 8 0 2.59 .915
Not too much difference. Bob did that over one season not 3 like Varmalov. Bob also doesn’t have the injury history that Varmalov has.
What can't Giroux do?
IMO Stamkos is more likely to get traded to the Flyers then the Flyers are to trade BOB. But if we get ’stellar" return would you complain.
Made me think of...
The difference between something that can go wrong and something that can’t possibly go wrong is that when something that can’t possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Unless it’s a VW, then everything is impossible to get at or repair. ;-)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
As a proud owner of a 2002 VW Jetta, I would just like to say …
YES.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The general complaint about VWs I always hear is about wonky electrical issues but otherwise I was under the impression they were fairly reliable and inexpensive, relative to other imports, to repair.
I agree about the electrical issues. Most of the stuff wrong with my Jetta is electrical gremlins. And I mostly agree with reliable. My car has had some interesting problems, but in general it runs pretty damn well. Inexpensive causes me some hesitation. I think some of the parts are a bit pricey.
But then I’m extremely spoiled by my ’69 BMW, which has very few electrical components, rarely needs work, and when it does, the parts are cheap and the repairs are generally easy to do yourself.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Fairly reliable, yeah. Inexpensive to fix … only compared to BMWs and Mercedes! (Excluding the truly obscene vehicles like Ferraris, Lambourghinis, Aston Martins, and Fiats.)
I’ll give you an example. My front brakes seemed to work fine, but the ‘check brakes’ light came up on the dash. So I took it in. Turns out that the brakes are fine, but since they’re not VW-factory brakes, they’re missing a little sensor connection. So the ‘check brakes’ light will be eternally on … until I decide to drop $750+ on replacing them with factory ones. That’s just two brake pads, installed.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh – I forgot Peugeots … but I don’t think anyone still owns one in the US anyway.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Growing up in Mt. Airy, one of the three Peugeot dealers in the US was right up the street (Fred’s). My parents owned two of them – I took my driving test on our new 1988 Peugeot 505 SW8 wagon. If you treated them right, they were phenomenal cars. The minute you even THOUGHT about mistreating them, they got all petulant and gave up … just like the French, no?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Many parts that commonly need to be replaced for routine maintenance are tricky to get to on my ‘97 Jetta. The sparkplugs, for example. Two of them are in a cramped space, but still very reachable with an extension. The other two are under the intake manifold and require a special boot-remover tool and unplugging the fuel injectors to reach them. Or the retaining clips on the rotor. One is easy to reach, the other is jammed up against the block. Or the air filter casing that is impossible to open because half of it is under the fender. Or the oil filter that is cleverly placed above a support member such that you have to carefully angle your filter wrench through a gap barely larger than the filter to reach it, and tilted at such an gle that it is impossible not to spill hot oil all over the place while you’re loosening it, and then have to carefully angle the filter itself to get it back out through that gap, spilling more hot oil in the process. And this is just for two of the most basic maintenance jobs: an oil change and a tune-up.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Sheesh. You should be given martyrdom for that. It’s sounds like work that all requires a lift. Sucks. New cars, all I know is where to put the oil, brake fluid and windshield wiper fluid in. That bugs me.
I inherited a Ford Probe (worst name in the history of cars) way back (don’t have it any more) and it had a Ford 3.O L V-6 engine in what was really a Mazda MX-6. Cramped to say the least but the worst was changing the transmission fluid. You had to take the pan out which meant getting the damn transmission mount out of the way. Unfortunate design flaw: the engine was to heavy for the chaissy. Cracked the engine mounts. Fast car, great struts but a real bitch to work on but nothing like what you go thru.
Oh, I nearly forgot the best one! The bolts for the ignition coil go through the firewall, so the bolt heads (which require an unusually large torx bit, probably in an attempt to intimidate me so I just take it to the dealership, ha!) are inside the engine compartment, but the nuts are on the other side, under the plastic skirt beneath the windshield. You have to remove the windshield wipers and that skirt to get to them. Great design. :-p
Seriously, as I said elsewhere, I’m very spoiled by my ’69 BMW. Everything on that is so easy. In college, I did all sorts of stuff to that car, like rebuilding the carburetor, adjusting the valve clearances, replacing the water pump, and even replacing the exhaust header, all with very basic tools (screwdrivers and socket wrenches) and, amazingly, with the car sitting on the ground. The Jetta is incredibly frustrating to work on after that.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I was reading a Bleacher Report of the 100 most hated athletes and Lebron was in the top 5 and the comments were ridiculous saying how it was race that people hated him. I couldn’t help smashing my head against a wall thinking, no it’s because he so outwardly greedy and has no couth at all is why people hate him. If any multi millionaire went on tv crying about not making enough money and put an hour long tv show about it, everyone would hate that.
end rant.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Yea, I never had a problem with him making money. He and his team know how to build a brand. I hate the guy because he has no sportsmanship.
Anyone see the Sixers game where they had beaten the Cavs at the last second and returned to the locker room, only to have BronBron complain to the ref for a few minutes to get a call, prompting the Sixers to come out of the locker room and lose the game? Even Crosby doesn’t get that level of special treatment.
by hebrew hammer on Jul 11, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, I hate them. we don’t hate him because of his race (well most don’t) it’s because he’s been acting like a douche for a year or so now
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
So, question for the BSH commentariat (and masthead, for that matter).
How do you feel – salary cap implications ignored – about the departure of Richards and Carter. Good move or bad move? Please consider on- and off-ice factors. Please do not factor Ilya Bryzgalov into your analysis.
And is this Holmgren’s or Snider’s work?
Thanks in advance.
FD
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Bad move: Loss of production, loss of your two best two way forwards. Moving one, can easily do, losing two, tough to replace the production at both ends of the ice. All of a sudden, now there is an issue of who is going to be going up against the best lines from opposing teams. Off ice issues are not relevant to me because they can never be truly confirmed or denied and their on ice level of play was already elite, so what they did off ice didn’t have an effect on their game.
Snider’s work, without question.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
by DLJr on Jul 11, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
No need for me to add anything but a rec.
Ecstatic to be joing the Florida Panthers Organization!! Awesome day... Truly a dream come true.
- @ScottieUpshall (July 1, 2011 2:15pm EST)
I don’t feel as confident that it’s Snider’s work, but still: rec from me.
Also, I would add that this was a team that was performing at a very high level and was widely acclaimed as being built to win now, and so I’m skeptical of the wisdom of trading two of the best players, right at their prime, for picks and prospects. It feels like they ensured 5 years of being in the #5-7 seed range instead of having another year or two as…well, not the Cup favorite, but one of the elite contenders.
Thanks for the reply. I think Snider makes the most sense too, but wanted to see your more-informed thoughts on the issue.
I threw in the off-ice considerations because that’s the only way I can make sense out of both of them leaving at once. I guess Snider wanted to radically remake the character of the team.
I was interested to see what you all thought of the matter: did the character require re-shaping? Or is it an over-reaction?
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Here’ my hypothesis. Snider has two types of guys he will remain ignorantly loyal to regardless of circumstances, 1. if you win for him, or 2. if you lose doing it his way. I think there were probably some issues, but nothing that required blowing up the team. I think that for whatever reason, Snider is the more Lavy/Pronger type of guy than he is the Richards/Carter type of personality. I think Snider has grown both impatient, and slightly out of touch, while having too much of a role in player designs and day to day operations of the Flyers. IMO, you hire people to handle those things to keep your personality and emotions out of the team’s business. IMO, this was Snider getting impatient and over reacting. Homer did a great job getting good returns in the trades, but this team is not better on paper right now (however, that doesn’t mean it can’t win) than it was before the trades.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Off ice issues are not relevant to me because they can never be truly confirmed or denied and their on ice level of play was already elite, so what they did off ice didn’t have an effect on their game.
The most frustrating thing about this offseason is having to argue with my friends about this exact fact.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
The only explanation for shipping them out is that they were bad in the lockerroom. So they must have
been bad in the lockerroom and I'm glad the Flyers shipped them out.
I know you’re snarking, but really is the only sense I can make out of it.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
I’ve posted on this before, but it’s really the Richards trade that makes me come to this conclusion. Rumors had been circling around Carter for a long time. Absolutely, positively NOT Richards. The drop in cap hit between Carter and Voracek, plus the trade for Versteeg, allows Bryz to be signed. Nothing else had to happen. The Richards trade suggests makeover for internal reasons, not purely on-the-ice personal performance reasons per se. See also my Mike and Bernie fanpost from several weeks ago.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
I like both trades, only because of what the Flyers got back in return. They won both trades, and I think that this team is better than what they were last year. I had no attachments to Richards or Carter, so when they left, I didn’t shed too many tears.
Snider’s work. Richards and Carter refused to be Ed Snider soldiers, therefore they got the boot
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think that this team is better than what they were last year
Meaning that in this coming year you think they will be better, or that they’re better set up for the long term? If the former, is it because you expect Bryzgalov to have a ~.925-.930 save percentage this year?
Both. I believe that they’ll win more playoff games this year than last, this is in part due to the fact that last year’s team was underachieving, and someone had to go (Preferably not Richards or Carter, I’d prefer not to trade either of them). In the long term, they have a bit more flexibility, albatross contracts are coming off the books, and with some better cap management, you’re looking at no Hartnell, Briere, or Timonen, and significant amounts of cash are opened up. The defense will suffer a bit when Timo leaves, but I’m hoping out of the 3 of Mesz, Carle and Coburn, 2 grow to replace Pronger and Timonen.
I don’t see Bryzgalov having an amazing year, but I see the team as a whole performing better, and not growing content with well over a month of regular season left to play, because they think the switch can be turned on. I think this team will be hungrier, and although they might not win the Cup, I don’t see them getting swept in a way like Boston did to us this year en route to a championship
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me fix a huge mistake for you
I believe that they’ll win more playoff games this year than last, this isin part due to the fact that last year’s team was underachievingis due to the team losing key members during the playoffs to injury
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Boston was not then 4 games better than the Flyers, and they still aren’t now.
Lavvy should’ve been fired for that atrocity in the 2nd round, and the foolishness in the first round. I would’ve been happy with that move too, and keep Richards and Carter.
But hey, I deal with what happens. I’m still rooting for Lavvy losing his job, but I have to be selective
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Boston was better than what the Flyers were icing, whether it’s 4, 3, 2 or 1 doesn’t matter too much. And Lavy’s match up follies, which by the way seemed to be exposed when he was missing Carter, won’t go away because of the trade. So it’s hard to say how winning more than 4 games in this years play offs makes this years team any better than last; especially if the team is healthy.
But hey, that appetite might get em far.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
well, I’m a simple minded person somewhat, and I ignore a lot of things and look at playoff success as the indicator of how good a team was. Yes, i ignore things like easy matchups and having a tough draw, but that’s just the way I am as a person, and I have no doubt that in that is a faulty way of thinking.
The way I look at it, the more games you win, the bigger chance you have at the Stanley Cup, and that’s all I really care about.
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough. I just fully realize that play off success has a lot of luck involved. I’d take limping in as an 8th seed and winning the cup over being the Presidents Trophy winner and not winning it. But if I wanted to say objectively who a better team was, I wouldn’t base it on playoff game victories. But that’s just my opinion.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
It’s the only concrete statistic I’ve come across, and the one that requires little to no interpretation at all. If luck is involved in the playoffs, then asking the question of do you think this year’s team is better than the last is a fruitless question, because who is best isn’t a predictor of who actually wins.
It’s a weird phenomenon
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess if you ignore that my stance is largely rooted in sample size, than sure, fruitless. I tend to think that 82 games give you a better idea of what a team is than 4 to 28 games. Just my opinion.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Yeah, I don’t agree with 82 games giving you a better idea of what a team is than the small playoff sample size. I think the playoffs are completely different than the regular season
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s nice when we get to the root of the disagreements.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad you just didn’t hit me with the “truth stick” that sometimes can be mistaken for a baseball bat with “the truth” written on the sweet spot
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, as long as people admit it’s a difference of opinion, rather than stating their way as categorically better, I’m surprisingly okay with it.
Now, had you brought up the Caps and how shitty they are because your method of evaluating says that, it would have been a really long argument.
But we got to the difference of opinion first, so… cool.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, it’s odd how well things work around here when you aren’t involved.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Burn.
It’s also odd how well things work around here when people are willing to state their opinion as opinion, and not argue as if their opinion is fact until settling on “Why can’t I have an opinion, too?”
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The Caps are a pretty good team. They just have the nasty habit of playing teams that were “meh” during the off-season, but play differently during a series.
Actually, come to think of it, trying to win a series (from a coaches’ point of view) would durastically be different than trying to win on a single game basis
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
To a certain extent they are. Smaller sample gives way to more variance, but it also means coaches can shorten benches and give elite players heavier minutes in general. Hence why I prefer looking at the whole picture, season, playoff, injuries, etc.
Like I said, difference of opinion.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
I just didn’t want you thinking that I ignored something that you said
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Going off memory here, but the return from the trades as I recall:
Schenn
- (Coutourier – that one worked out pretty nicely, eh?)
Simmonds
Voracek.
Anything I’m missing?
Patron saint of quality footwear.
format fail.
Schenn
A first (Coutourier – is that you you spell it?)
Simmonds
Voracek
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Richards and Carter went for:
1st round pick
2nd round pick (next year’s draft)
3rd round pick
Simmonds
Voracek
Schenn
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
they’re the 2 best players on your team. If Holmgren brought home anything less I’d be pissed
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The Cap Floor's Surprise Inhabitant
Among the proletarian teams, it appears that every team has a slightly different strategy for “reaching” the cap floor. If you are Dale Tallon, you overspend for multiple years on slightly-above-average players (cf. Homer circa 2007). If you are Nashville, have lots of RFAs and one giant one on D who if signed to a long-term deal might take up the rest of the space to the floor. If you are the Islanders, you hope that the league office doesn’t notice you are $10M below the cap, and the coach figures out how to play with 18 players, one of which will always be an injured goalie.
And there there is Colorado. Wait, what, Colorado? The team that was the most recent participant in the Forsberg Opera? Like, the one in the early 2000s that was a Cup contender? I mean, they are in Denver, and they have had declining attendance, but it’s DENVER. How are they at the floor?
Moreover, with 22 players already on the capgeek roster (!) , and AFAIK only 2 non-star players in RFA status, at $44M, there is no obvious “internal” growth path to get to the floor. Plus, Mile High Hockey says that there are multiple further players signed at around $1M that do not appear on capgeek (I guess that they could replace a couple of their ELs, but that might technically exacerbate their situation).
I would say that they might be in the Stamkos sweepstakes, but didn’t they give up #1 for Varlamov?
I looked on the Mile High site for comments on their cap floor participation but saw none. But why in general has Colorado flown so far under the radar? Don’t they need some sort of marquee player? Am I missing something that DG could enlighten me on? And why should they be closer to the floor than Phoenix?
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
They haven’t been under the radar here. I at least pointed out how I’m fairly disgusted by how their team is being operated currently; but I guess general disgust doesn’t really count towards what you are looking for.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
you overspend for multiple years on slightly-above-average players (cf. Homer circa 2007).
Hartnell: Overpaid/Slightly above average
Briere: Somewhat overpaid/ Top playoff point getter since the lock out—-not “slightly above average”
Timonen: Overpaid/ Top 20 defender in league
by OrangeNblacK on Jul 11, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll stipulate to this minor point (even though I’m not sure I agree) if you’ll consider the real topic of the article, which is why the Avalanche are underspending. The point on Tallon, even if I eliminate the Homer comparison, still stands.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Attendance woes certainly don’t help. But I really haven’t spent all that much time looking at Colorado’s reasons for wanting to hover around the cap floor; you guys keep me kind of busy with the CBA stuff.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 11, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Schenn had a great day (3 goals and an assist), Hoiven was, actually, really good in net. The Flyer/Phantom’s had a big day. Gustufson was actually really bad today, got beat a few times and had two very bad turnovers. Reed looked good, but not Flyers good. Couturier was OK, no points and only 1 shot, but he made a few nice defensive plays and was strong on the puck and made clean passes. And Rinaldo was the star of the day, and in all honesty, looks very ready to take the leap from the AHL to NHL.
Fun day, but except for the freak, our goalies and D look awful.
Samesis
Marshall, Sestito, Bourdon? What did Rinaldo do to look good. On another note—- I saw his flyers.com interview—- Rinaldo cannot speak.
by OrangeNblacK on Jul 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Bourdon didn’t play at all, Sestito took a puck to the leg in the 1st and left the game, and Marshall looked like shit. Rinaldo was just, very good haha. He was smashing and bashing everyone hard, and he was very clean with the puck. Him and Schenn were the best of the bunch, Test and Wellwood also looked very good.
Samesis
He was smashing and bashing everyone hard
Didn’t we trade him to CBJ?
"Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"
by PraiseMartyMoose on Jul 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you think these older defensmen looked like shit because:
a: Their teammates were young kids that the older defensmen had to compensate for
b: They are just shitty defensemen
c: This doesn’t really matter for MAB, Gusty, Marsh and you are going to focus on them more during the real training camp
by OrangeNblacK on Jul 11, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
In all honesty, how may games have you seen them actually play, eith in Juniors, the AHL, or the preseason?
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
But I thought you can’t judge a player by what you see?
(wish i knew the sarcasm font haha)
But in all honesty, Marshall and MAB arent even good AHL players, and this is both their 5th and 4th camp, and neither are highly touted to be top of the line for the the Flyers injury replacement job. All signs are pointing to them being bust.
Samesis
I don’t care, I’m just trying to nail down how reliable your eyes even are since you kept posting stuff on here today about the scrimmage.
And what I get from your last two sentences is that you aren’t even using you eyes for these 3 D men, but , just going on pretty much nothing at this point. I mean I don’t even disagree with MAB, but you aren’t doing anything to earn any kind of credibility to make statements that refer to MAB and Marshall as shitty defensemen at this point. Further, if you look at the Flyers depth chart at D, is it even an insult that they aren’t in the conversation as 7th Dmen, or as an injury call up with Danny Syvret on the Phantoms last season?
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Okay, I just think that should be pointed out when someone is asking your opinion of them from something you attended. You know like “Well they suck, but then again, I’ve long since given up hope on them so I don’t pay too much attention”
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
But he can’t fall in to:
This doesn’t really matter for MAB, Gusty, Marsh and you are going to focus on them more during the real training campbecause you already gave up on him.
And I didn’t realize you went every day.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
I went 3 days….
And I do notice them. I look for them. I’ve been following them for about 5 years now. Marshall and MAB were considered our #2 and #3 prospects, and Marshall was #1 for a bit. Obviously I look at them closely. Its not that I want them to not succeed, I just don’t expect them to anymore.
Samesis
I’m not even trying to say your opinion doesn’t matter, everyone has one,t hat’s what the site is for…I just think you should give some context in them. Like not getting to see a lot of games they’ve played, or giving up on them based on camp and waiting. Like I said, I even agree with you on some of them, but I just wanted to get the context out of you for your response to O&B’s question.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
But other then the fact that they haven’t shown any signs of playing at a high lever for even moderately long periods of time, what other context does my opinion need? Im basing my opinion off of the fact that they have not come close to reaching the potential they were stated to have.
Samesis
Didn’t read much on Marshall this year in ADK? Do you follow them at ADK at all to be able to say what their level of play is up there?
And how do you judge reaching their potential? Getting the call to the NHL? Because the depth chart, especially with Syvret in the AHL last year, is pretty darn deep.
Also, Marshall is 3 months younger than Gus, if that concerns you at all. It’s not like Marshall was a 1st rounder, and it’s not like he plays a position that quickly translates to the NHL game (defensive defensemen).
I’d love to see one of Marshall or Gus up on the big club next year, but that isn’t likely given the depth at that position. With that said, I’m not going to knock either of them for not making the jump, I’ll just continue to follow their progress playing games.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
As someone who watched over half the ADK games, Marshall was horrible in the first half of the season and alittle better by the end. This training camp though, he was very bad. I have said it a million times, he cant make outlet passes, and from what I heard from a few people who went today, he had the same troubles again, one almost leading to a breakaway goal.
I am surprised about the Gustafsson comment. Both Leed, Dave Issac, and my buddy said Gustafsson was one of the best, if not the best d-man on the ice today.
Gus Supporter.
From everything I read about Marshall, and other fans I talked to about Marshall this year that were season ticket holders in ADK said he had a strong season. Struggled when the whole team struggled, but was their best defensive defenseman on the whole.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
This also tends to be why i don’t put much stock in personal opinions, because they tend to vary greatly, and when you get down to it, were formed far to early and allow selective perception to take over.
For all I know he could be a bust or be challenging for the 3rd pairing this year. I have all of 2 games to go on in which Gus was terrible and Marshall was really good. This seemed to be the opposite of what I read on here, which is why I asked a writer for the team and some fans their opinions. The overall impression was Gus had a couple bad games, but Marshall was legitimately taking all the tough minutes and being depended on heavily to carry the defensive load along with Syvret. Gus wasn’t at that level yet, but has the offense and the PP quarter backing upside that Marshall does not.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Kevin Marshall was on the top pairing in the AHL this year. I’m pretty sure that classifies as “high lever for even moderately long periods of time.”
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
one of these days someone will respond to your critiques with “no” and that will be the whole message. I can’t wait
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ll be disappointed, sorry.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
“no”
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
you know, I knew it wouldn’t have its desired effect
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It should only be used when he write one of his 8 paragraph speeches. Don’t even read the argument, just type “no” under it.
Samesis
Go for it…I usually have pretty good conversations with CCB whether we agree or not, and for the most part, I already ignore what you post.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Ah, I see you found Geoff’s “Truth Stick”
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, i think Don is just being Don.
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much. If John got me upset, I’d be disappointed in myself.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
“You lost it for yourself”
I had to get a Mighty Ducks reference in there
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Feel free to use them at will. I have a teammate that gets so pissed anytime I reference the Mighty Ducks…but sometimes the situations are just to perfect for it.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
Yes, I will have that Goldberg jersey. One of the proudest moments in Philadelphia’s history was having their goalie dilemma represented on film
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 11, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Schenn had a great day (3 goals and an assist)
Sounds about right. I mean he’s the best player there.
And Rinaldo was the star of the dayWhat did he do, kill someone? Sounds kind of hard to be the star when the best player there scored 4 pts.
What can't Giroux do?
Saw this from a Pens fan on Twitter today. Worth a chuckle.
I saw a #27 Talbot Flyers jersey on ebay last night and almost vomited. This is going to be tougher than I thought.
Sarauj, Latvija!
Over paying for a 4th line player – 1.8 million
Angering the entire Pittsburgh Penguins fanbase – Priceless
Some around here may argue over the first part of that. But we definitely all agree on the second part. :-)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
I seem to be the very small minority position on this one. Like, one of maybe three.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
OOH – where and how much???
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Danke.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 11, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody know the status of that contract situation? Haven’t heard anything about it since the “circumvention” was called to attention. What’s taking so long to fix it and sign him to a new contract?
by DrunkHockeyFan on Jul 11, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
They adjusted the bad year and reduced the cap hit.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
by George E. Ays on Jul 11, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
CapGeek has it corrected and accepted.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody wants to talk about Jacob De Serres’ interview?
Sad face.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
If you have some time for golf next week, I’ll talk to you about it then.
I HAVE to be mad because you keep saying, "why you heff to be mad?" in every other post.
I don’t.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Via Cap Geek, there are 10 NHL players with contracts of 10-years-or-greater: Alex Ovechkin(notes), Christian Ehrhoff(notes), Vincent Lecavalier(notes), Duncan Keith(notes), Marian Hossa(notes), Henrik Zetterberg(notes), Roberto Luongo(notes), Nicklas Backstrom(notes), Mike Richards(notes) and Ilya Kovalchuk(notes).
From the Puck Daddy article…..Doesn’t Carter have an 11 year deal?
I'm kind of a dick.
Yeah, I thought the same thing.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
What about DiPietro?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 12, 2011 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions
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