So Where Do We Sit?

by FlyerFan139 on Jul 12, 2011 8:13 PM EDT

We took a couple of losses during this offseason. To start, Richie, Carter, and Versteeg got traded. We won 2/3 for sure and the other one is a maybe. We'll see who won the Versteeg trade when he plays in Florida and it also depends on who we draft with the picks sent to us in the deal (a 2nd rounder in 2012 or 2013 and a 3rd rounder in 2012). The Richie trade netted us Los Angeles' 2nd round pick this year, along with Wayne Simmonds and Brayden Schenn. Schenn is considered by many as the best prospect not in the NHL. Simmonds will bring to the table what the Flyers needed all year. A gritty, 3rd line winger who isn't afraid to mix it up along the boards and also contribute offensively. Carter, who went to Columbus, netted us last year's 8th overall pick, last year's 68th overall pick, and Jakub Voracek. The two picks turned out to be Sean Couturier (8th) and Nick Cousins (68th). While Cousins is considered a "wait and see" type of prospect, Couturier has an outside shot to crackthe Flyers opening night roster. However, many experts agree that Sean needs to fill out his frame and work on his skating stride. Jakub Voracek will mostly replace Leino on Danny Briere's line. We all saw what Briere did for Leino. Let's see if he can work the same magic with Jakub.

Also, Zherdev and Leino walked to free agency. Leino went on to receive a ludicrous 6 year, 27 million dollar deal with the Buffalo Sabres. Let's all remember that the man is a 27 year-old player with only one 50-point season. All signs are pointing to Zherdev not resigning in the NHL, let alone here. Let's be honest here, would you want to come back to a team run by a coach who only played you in 56 games when you had one of the highest points-per-60 on the team?

We did win a few battles this offseason. The players and picks acquired in the trades were all a plus. Also, we won the Jaromir Jagr "sweepstakes". We stole right out from under Pittsburgh's nose! The news was announced late July 1st, and he shocked the hockey world. He decided to not come back and play for his longtime teammate and friend, Mario Lemieux. He decided to not come back and write a bookend on his legacy with the Penguins. Instead, he decided to come play for the Flyers. A sin punishable by death in western Pennsylvania. Paul Holmgren didn't stop there. He went and acquired Maxime Talbot from the Free Agent pool. The same Maxime Talbot who won the Stanley Cup with the Penguins in 2009. He's going to fit nicely into a 3rd/4th line role here as that seems to be our most glaring weakness. However, neither of those deals was the big one. The deal that got the most publicity from the media was us signing goalie Ilya Bryzgalov to a 9-year, 51 million dollar deal. Wefinally got our number one goalie! The Flyers' most glaring weakness for nearly three decades! Nothing else really needs to be said about him. He practically carried the Phoenix Coyotes to the Playoffs the last two years. Imagine what he can do with a defense consisting of five top-4 guys. Speaking of our defense, we also signed defenseman Andreas Lilja. He'll be a serviceable #6, and even if he falters, we have Erik Gustafsson waiting in the wings.

So let's analyze this: Richie: 23g 43a 66p
Carts: 36g 30a 66p
Leino: 19g 34a 53p
Zherdev: 16g 6a 22p
Versteeg (Post Trade): 7g 4a 11p
Sean O'Donnell: 1g 17a 18p
Combined: 102g 134a 236p
Flyers: 256g (39.8%) 427a (31.3%) 683p (34.5%)
Simmonds: 14g 16a 30p
Voracek: 14g 32a 46p
Jagr (equivalency): 26g 41a 67p
Schenn (equivalency): 12g 18a 30p
Talbot: 8g 13a 21p
Lilja: 1g 6a 7p
Combined: 75g 126a 201p
Flyers: 256g(29.2%) 427a (29.5%) 683p (29.4%)
Differences: G(-10.6%) A(-1.8%) P(-5.1%)
Boosh and Bob Combined Save %: .915
Bryz and Bob Combined Save %: .918
Flyers SA: 2429
Flyers GA: 206
Flyers New GA (w/ same shots): 199

(All stats based off of last year's numbers)

The Flyers' offense has taken a major hit. While Jame vanRiemsdyk may be poised for a breakout year, he will not make up for the ten percent of goals lost. This team is going to need to gel fast if they want to have a chance for Cup contention. Bryzgalov can only stop so many pucks, and the Flyers' have also taken a hit on defense with one of the best two-way forwards in the game out of the equation (looking at you, Richie).

So, where do we sit? I'd say 6-8 seed playoff contender to absolutely bombing this season. However, there is a bright future ahead...

This item was written by a member of this community and is not necessarily endorsed by Broad Street Hockey.

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Boosh and Bob Combined Save %: .915
Bryz and Bob Combined Save %: .918
Flyers SA: 2429
Flyers GA: 206
Flyers New GA (w/ same shots): 199

We paid a lot to save those 7 goals didn’t we…

But yeah I’m thinking we end up 6-8 unless one of Voracek, Giroux, Schenn or JVR really has a productive year. I’ve got high hopes for Voracek, his numbers aren’t that bad for his age and he oozes potential.

Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.

Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 12, 2011 11:32 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah, yeah we did. If we can improvement with a HBV line, I’m all for it. I mean, look what it did for Leino…

Minus cherty-two
OMB!
No, you're Ryan Lambert!

by FlyerFan139 on Jul 12, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions

can *get an…
wow that was bad

Minus cherty-two
OMB!
No, you're Ryan Lambert!

by FlyerFan139 on Jul 12, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions

HBV line? Sounds like somebody’s getting vaccinated!

by KornontheKobb on Jul 16, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

i'd like to offer my opinion, if a NYR fans perspective is allowed...

first, I’m curious of which 2 out of the 3 trades you think the flyers won? (which is what i assume you meant when you said “we won 2/3 for sure”. While it is possible that the flyers end up winning them all, it is far from certain that the flyers won any of these trades. As you said with the Versteeg trade it depends on who the flyers draft. To apply that to the Richy and Carter deals it depends on how the acquired prospects pan out. I think Schenn is very likely to be an all star but until he does it it is all just speculation. And Couturier is not nearly as sure of a bet as Schenn. I’m not by any means saying I think he’ll be a bust I’m just saying he still needs work and as of now until these players prove themselves the flyers still gave away the 2 best players in those deals.

My next issue with the moves is that i think the flyers have weakened themselves defensively. And I’ll use this moment to bring up the fact that you forgot to add Powe’s stats. In Richy, Carter and Powe the flyers lost not only 2 top tier offensive centers, they also lost 2 excellent defensive forwards who were gritty and very good penalty killers, and Carter was good as well. At this point in their respective careers I would much rather have Powe then Talbot. On top of that, the Flyers paid more for Talbot than they would’ve had to give to keep Powe. As well as the forward moves that I just brought up, I think that O’Donnell (even at this stage of his career) is still decidedly better than Lilja, who also has a problem staying on the ice through out his career. So i think their defense has become worse top to bottom. And that is not even factoring in the age and new found fragility of Pronger whose contract will severely hurt the team in the near future. The team has to be able to do their share of the work defensively or all that money thrown at Bryz could be for nothing.

the bad: the Flyers have a lot of new pieces, and its not just a question of better or worse. They have had such a dramatic turn over that there has to be a serious concern as to whether all these new pieces can come together and form a solid and complete team. Time will also tell if they all fit and thrive in Laviolette’s system. These questions are impossible to answer until the players get on the ice, then we will know what they have and whether they are better or worse. I think that these moves make the Flyers more dependent on Chris Pronger playing at a high level for as many games as possible, if he can’t handle the load i think the team could suffer a major step back.

the good: they did manage to acquire some good young talent. However, I will say that I’m not sure that those players will really hit their stride or “prime” until after guys like Pronger and Kimo are no longer effective, so i no longer consider them legitimate cup contenders. Another plus for them is that they still have Bob as a bargaining chip to improve the team. if the give him some start early and he can impress, they may be able to get some young cheap talent back to improve the team. I would suggest they do their best to get a D-man for him considering the age of Pronger and Kimo.

projection: I think your prediction is pretty accurate. I would put them in the high 90’s in points and I have them finishing 5th or 6th in the conference. I think that the are still talented enough to have a solid regular season, but i think these changes will sink them in the playoffs and i don’t see them making it out of the first round unless they get a very favorable match up. I think Was, Pit, Bos, and maybe even Tampa have separated themselves in the east and I don’t see the Flyers beating any of them if healthy.

by Rags to riches? on Jul 13, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions

sorry about the length of that post

by Rags to riches? on Jul 13, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions

You’re right. We don’t know how Couturier is going to pan out. But, what I do know is that the Flyers do a great job of developing players, if they hold on to them. Every first round pick dating back to 1992 (fuck you Sittler, you bum), granted it may not be many, has cracked the NHL. Schenn’s a lock for the NHL this year. The only real issue we have is not having a right-handed defenseman. Every defenseman we have that makes the NHL this year is a lefty…every single one!

Minus cherty-two
OMB!
No, you're Ryan Lambert!

by FlyerFan139 on Jul 14, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions

I didn't know that and dont get me wrong that is impressive...

but i looked into that and found it to be a little misleading. For one thing, “cracking the nhl” isn’t exactly the sign of success for a first rounder. But aside from that, the flyers had about five solid picks (wiliams, gagne, richy, carter, and giroux) from memory, 3/5ths of those players will end up spending the majority of their careers in different uniforms. The fact that they gave up on those players too early doesn’t take away from the fact that they were able to recognize and develop their talent, it is just a poor way to run a organization. As a fan of the Rangers I have watch an organization trade away its future (Amonte,Weight, Marchant, and picks) to make a desperate run at the cup. In our case it worked out but it lead to some dark days of hockey. When you really think about it five good picks in about twenty years isn’t that great. However, most of those came after ’99 so their scouting is definitely heading in the right direction.
On the opposite side of that though i would still mention their lack of identifying and developing good defensive prospects. As well as their lack of production from the later rounds (including the 2nd round) of the draft.

by Rags to riches? on Jul 15, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions

For the record, I think an opposing fan’s opinion is entirely welcome if it can be done respectfully like you did above. You made lots of valid points, most of which I agree with.

Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.

by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 14, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions

thank you i appreciate it.

by Rags to riches? on Jul 15, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

For the record, we still reserve the right to tease and mock Rangers fans. I know several Ranger’s fans and from what I’ve seen it’s mutual.

You have some very good points here. Most have actually been stated by some members here numerous times. There is a recent good eye for talent, but we’re still working on that whole “patience” thing in the front office. I will disagree that they have no eye for defensive prospects. I think they have a good eye for it. See my comment on patience for the explanation there. They trade them away FAR too soon.

Welcome, and I hope to see you post here again soon.

"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."

by Mike B on D on Jul 17, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Your right the Flyers wont be as good, the only thing to hang our hats on though is the Rangers and Islanders will be worse as usual.

by mcparts on Jul 15, 2011 7:51 AM EDT reply actions

if that's what you're looking for out of this season you really know how to set your sights high.

And why did you include the Islanders? Who brought them up or gives a damn about them for that matter? While i have the Flyers finishing ahead of the Rangers this year, i would actually give the Rangers a better chance of advancing in the playoffs than the Flyers. The Rangers are one top six LW and one Dman away from being a legit contender. And they have several prospects in their system that could potentially fill those roles, or be used as trade bait if the right opportunity presents itself. The Rangers have put together a team that any fan can respect and be proud to root for. So enjoy this season because times are changing. The Rangers have for the most part developed from within and the flyers are running around overpaying other people’s talent. That road is a dead end as you will find out soon enough.

by Rags to riches? on Jul 15, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I have to admit, the Rangers are going with a very strong youth movement and it seem to be working. They need to improve their scoring. That said they will be a bit stronger this year than last.

The recent Flyers moves have shifted them away from building through free agency. The newly acquired picks will hopefully help replenish the farm system to keep us stocked with talent. That said the last few years without picks will hurt us, or at least set us back some.

"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."

by Mike B on D on Jul 17, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I like the state of the Flyers right now. I think there’s a solid core, but they might need one or two guys to really establish an identity for this team. Pronger is the clear leader, I just hope his health allows him to establish the presence that’s needed to guide this team. Hopefully the younger guys will step up too.

I feel weird saying it, but I think that Simmonds possesses the tenacity to become a leader on the ice. His strong, physical presence is exactly the kind of gritty, hard-nosed approach this team needs to have this season in order to establish themselves as a force.

After 10 years, I still can't figure out how Jiri Dopita had a 4 goal game and disappeared.

by Vinny A on Oct 5, 2011 10:50 AM EDT reply actions