Simon Gagne joins Mike Richards... in Los Angeles
by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2011 3:42 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Flyers News
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PrintSimon Gagne was an option for the Flyers this free agent year. He could've returned to town, and while it actually may not have been the perfect fit for this team at this point, I don't think any of us would have cared.
He won't be back. The Los Angeles Kings just announced that their team has reached a verbal agreement on a two-year contract with Gags, and he'll be reunited with Mike Richards and the rest of Flyers West. Rich Hammond of LAKings.com reports that it's a two year deal worth $7 million, or $3.5 million per year.
Now, the Flyers don't have many options left in terms of picking up a forward in free agency. Looking at the list we went over yesterday, we can scratch off Brad Richards (ha), Tim Connolly (ha again), Gagne, Michal Handzus, Sean Bergenheim and Anthony Stewart. Still some options, but they are beginning to get thinner.
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Dissapointed
Still trying to figure out what the trade of Versteeg was for unless a trade is in the works. He’s probably better than most of the remaining (realistic) free agents. Maybe a trade or RFA offer is in the works.
by Bob's Crab Emporium on Jul 2, 2011 3:46 PM EDT reply actions
I think that was more of a “this isn’t working here” move. Tallon wanted Versteeg, and Homer was able to get some value for him, so it made a lot of sense. Also opened up a top-9 position for Talbot/Jagr/whomever.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
We didn’t really need to open up a spot for them to fit in? Imo.
E-A-G-L-E-S, EAGLES!!
#2 Flyers fan in England behind Orange and Black Forever (Damn him and his Americanness)
Powe!!!, right in the kisser!
If you wanted to keep Schenn up and have Talbot on the third line, yeah, you did. But I think that’s a moot point, because it had more to do with Versteeg never quite finding a place for himself here than that.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
That’s also very true.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
So package Coburn and another cap hit player for Doughty and Gagne?
"I'd like to be remembered by Flyers fans as a player who played through injuries, and left it all on the ice." -CaptainMRichie18
I’m glad he went to LA if he wasn’t coming here. He really wouldn’t have been a good fit here next year with all the Wingers that were signed yesterday. I was really nervous Pittsburgh would try to sign him for revenge.
From Parts Unknown.
Good for him. I hope it works out for him there. I was a bit surprised he didn’t resign in Tampa. He wanted to go there, he had a good year there and it’s a good young team. But no matter, one more reason to call the Kings Flyers West.
True story, first hockey team I ever liked was the Kings…Gretzky, Kurri(2nd favorite player ever) Robitaille, Blake, Granato, McSorley, Zhitnik and Hrudey.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
True story, first hockey team I ever liked was the Kings…Gretzky, Kurri(2nd favorite player ever) Robitaille, Blake, Granato, McSorley, Zhitnik and Hrudey.
Aww…those were good times. I still miss Granato. I also get really excited whenever I spot Hrudey on the CBC.
I was reared on Dionne, Taylor, and Nicholls in the old Forum. Woo.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
And Rogie Vachon.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Sadly, the first goalie I really remember is Bob Janecyk. Not quite the same stellar experience, haha.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Not a surprise in the slightest
I think they were only waiting for the Richards decision.
I never thought Simon would ever be a Flyer again, at least until Homer is fired. And LA was always the most likely location in my view. Now, it will be a Richards-Gagne- Brown line. Yikes.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Kings are looking really good
theyre going to give a sharks a run for their money in the pacific this year
"Life is like a grapefruit. It's orange and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, and some people have a half a one for breakfast."
Ted Williams: .406 1941
Gary Brown: .438 2010
by operation carrot on Jul 2, 2011 4:09 PM EDT reply actions
Good god, Philadelphia West indeed. I’m afraid to wonder who’s next…….maybe tomorrow we’ll find Giroux and JVR traded there as well.
"We didn't do it the easy way. We took the hard way to do it. But we are part of history now."
No. Just no
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
No more moves
quite frankly, im extremely satisfied with the way this team looks now. we already have our top 9 set, id rather save the rest of the money we have just incase, i feel that we may need some help defensively at some point throughout the season.
hartnell-briere-jagr(jagr plays a similar style to leino,much stronger on the puck)
jvr-giroux-schenn(this kid is ready to play, him and giroux could be real dangerous)
voracek-talbot-simmonds(scary line to play against if im on the other team)
shelley-betts-nodl(who cares its the third line)
Schenn is ready. i feel that he will be better suited on what of the top lines rather then be relied upon as a third line checking center.
I don’t think Voracek has any bussiness being on a checking line.
It might make more sense to flip flop Schenn and Voracek.
by philiafan14364 on Jul 2, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Jagr
Rookie here, Been following the site for over a year but never got to signing up to comment. I Believe that Jagr-G-JVR would be a good fit with Voracek filling in for Leino with Briere and Harts. Jagr is more of a finisher and G would set him up excellently and Voracek is more of a creator like Leino.
Jagr-G-JVR
Voracek-Briere-Hartnell
Simmonds-Talbot- ?
Believe Schenn should start in ADR
Welcome.
Note that the 3rd center acquisition would help this. Talbot would play LW.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Already a Shark.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
could also be really ballsy and go Simmonds-Couturier-Schenn and Nodl-Betts-Talbot…this is based on if couturier is close to being ready, which I personally have no idea about.
I haven’t seen him mentioned much on the comments here the past few days, but I am hopeful that Couterier has a shot at making the team.
Hexwall.
To those of you who are hopeful Couturier is going to make the team this year; how much of a cap hit are you willing to allocate to him?
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Rookie pay scale
Isn’t the maxium close to 925,000? Schen makes 900,000 with 2.25 in bonuses. Schen was 5th overall 3 years ago, and coutier is 8th overall so I would say 2.75 cap hit would be reasonable. Probably closer to 3 would be more realistic though.
-bob
by Rrainone on Jul 2, 2011 6:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Right, but it’s a hard cap, so we have to count all of that 2.75M – 3M against the cap, even if he doesn’t earn it, because most bonuses can’t be eliminated early in the year. If this was a year with a bonus cushion; sure, let the kid try to make the team, but I don’t want him at a 3M cap hit this year.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Why did they make the final year of the CBA lack a bonus cushion? And I agree I wouldn’t want him on the big league if he isn’t ready to produce at the NHL level with that cap hit, if we where a bottom 15 team in terms of talent and cap I’d have no problem with it though. Also how many times can a contract slide? Because the agreement with NHL and juniors is that if the player can’t make the big squad they get him back until he is 20 from what I understand. That way the junior clubs can compete. If we signed him now can it slide for three years? And why is jvr contract drastically less than schen?
-bob
by Rrainone on Jul 2, 2011 6:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Because the way the bonus cushion works, a team can be over the cap at the end of the year due to earned bonuses. The penalty for that is charged to the next year’s cap. At the end of the CBA, you can’t really have a penalty extend into a contract that doesn’t exist yet.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh ok that makes sense. That is why chicago was in so much trouble with the cap after they won the cup.
-bob
by Rrainone on Jul 2, 2011 7:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yup. Not only did they have bad contracts, but they had a reduced cap the following year.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
if the player is 18 the contract can be slid twice; it can’t slide the year the player is 20. I don’t know why JVR’s contract is lower, but it may have to do with the fact that he went to the NCAA and didn’t sign the contract until 2 years later, but that’s complete speculation.
And as Geoff said, you can’t roll a cap penalty onto next season if there’s no guarantee there will even be a next season.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, that clears up a lot.
-bob
by Rrainone on Jul 2, 2011 8:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not too familiar with the Bonus cushion
so I assumed Couturier would make <1mil like JVR
It's a hockey, you know. it's only... it's only game. Why you heff to be mad?
Don’t worry about not being familiar with it; there isn’t one this year. All bonuses count toward the cap until they’re not earned (and we won’t see them get eliminated midseason anyway, so there’s no reason to count on that), including JVR’s bonuses. So he’s making 1.65 against the cap, Bob is making 1.75, Schenn is making 3.1; it all counts this year.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 4, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
So does Couturier have virtually no shot of making the NHL roster this year? Just curious. I’ve heard one columnist write as if he had a great chance to compete, but have seen virtually nobody write him in on a roster since.
"I'd like to be remembered by Flyers fans as a player who played through injuries, and left it all on the ice." -CaptainMRichie18
None. Flyers don’t have contract space for him. Can’t be in AHL. Will go back to juniors (not ideal).
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Considering we are talking about signing someone else, can you explain why we wouldn’t have contract space for him. How much would his contract be worth?
The 50 contract limit.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Couturier
If he looks ready to them in prospect camp, they could sign him to an EL-deal and if he doesn’t make the roster out of regular camp, they just “slide” his contract and send him back to juniors — it wouldn’t count against the 50-limit.
Now, if he comes into regular camp and wins a spot, they have enough cap space to carry him (assuming a cap-hit of $1M-1.75M for a #8 pick) and Homer has expressly said that he’s apportioning enough cap space for just that kind of possibility. If, at that point, they need to lose a contract to accommodate him, they can always trade off/waive/loan a spare part.
Homer still isn’t done yet, so we don’t know if somebody else is going to be cleared off that list; but I don’t expect them to rush Couturier. Especially since odds are he won’t be all that cheap; because he’s probably going to have a bonus-laden contract.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Good luck in L.A. Nothing but good memories.
by 92-74-99-96 on Jul 2, 2011 4:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
off topic
Anyone see how Brad Richard’s contract is structured? 12,12, 9, 8.5,8.5,7, 1,1,1 mil.
I’m not familiar with what kind of contract he has so does it count as 12 this year, or is it averaged as per his contract?
“Average Annual Value” Something like $6.5 every year. Since he is not 35, goes off the cap if he retires.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Talk about exercising that “no single year drop in salary of more than half of the value of either of the first two years of the contract” clause. Holy 6 million dollar drop there, Sather.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it’s really a 6 year contract at what, $9.5 a year? The last three years, Rangers expect he’ll retire or be in the minors. At least under current CBA rules.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
There’s a way around every rule aparrently.
by SkookFlyerfan on Jul 2, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and it flirts with the letter of the Kovalchuk rule, as well. But it meets all those restrictions, so the Rangers will get away with it for now. I’m sure the new CBA is going to shut a lot of these loopholes down, though.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Since I will be watching all of the Kings games now (they are the local coverage team here in SD), I am happy that I may get to see Richie and Gags play together.
If our options right now are sign a UFA or go with Talbot or throw Schenn into the deep end, I would be ok with letting Schenn try to center the 3rd line and if he struggles, give Talbot the job. I don’t really like any of the UFAs that are left.
Everyone’s welcome over at JftC anytime. Seriously, we need you all. We need you to be able to tell us about our team.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Already signed up. Haven’t offered much, other than a few comments here and there.
I willl give you a Flyers fan’s perspective when needed.
You’re gonna stick around and help us out with Schenn and Simmonds, too, right?
After visiting a lot last summer, thought, I’m scared to visit JftC too often; I’m afraid Quisp and I would get started on some CBA discussion that never ever ended. But you have Gagne now so I figure I’ll be over often enough.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I will probably be over here even more often, yes! I will give whatever Schenn and Simmonds info I can. I will be rooting for them. I got so attached. And also…someone probably needs to be given custody of my Simmer bobblehead.
I’m afraid Quisp and I would get started on some CBA discussion that never ever ended.
I’m just going on the record as saying he would love that. :)
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Don’t think so. I don’t expect it to be that soon; I figure they won’t finalize a number with him until they’re done with whatever deal they claim to be working on. They have more flexibility that way.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t encourage me, I talk about the CBA enough over here. :)
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s a shame, because this forward arrangement would have made a whole lot of sense (to me, at least):
Hartnell/Briere/Voracek
JVR/Giroux/Jagr
Gagne/Schenn/Simmonds
Talbot/Betts/Nodl OR Shelley (depending on whether they would need a goon on a given night)
That would have given the 3rd line some much-needed veteran savvy, as well as another legit scoring threat (assuming Gagne could keep himself healthy for the better part of the season). It also would put Talbot on the 4th line, where he belongs. Ahhh well. $3.5M is more than I would have wanted to see them pay for Gagne, anyway. I guess I have a new favorite team in the West. Back to the drawing board.
I hope it a bloody war out in the West next season.
The Kings look scary good and a lot closer to making a legitimate run for the cup
I wish the best for Richards and Gagne
I knew it wasn’t going to happen for Gagne to come back here, but I really hope he will do well in LA. He and Richie always worked well together, and I think Flyers West is a good fit for him. The Kings are really making an effort to steal my West Coast allegiance away from the Sharks, though. I don’t want to be a turncoat, but both Richie and Gagne makes a strong case.
LA is starting to look crazy dangerous now.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
LA is starting to look crazy dangerous now.
Especially with that Lindsay Lohan character back out there in the party scene.
What can't Giroux do?
That’s a fact. That skank has made a mockery of the entire legal system.
by 92-74-99-96 on Jul 2, 2011 6:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Unless schenn has a terrible camp, he will be on the flyers. Personally I think that he would have less pressure as a winger then a shut down third line center.
And don’t Count out Courturier. He says that he plans on making the team this year. He’s hungry.
by nastynas88 on Jul 2, 2011 5:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
No one mentioned
He’s really reunited with Justin Williams. They came up together, drafted a year apart. You guys make me feel old…
I don’t think it would be funny, seriously, I think I’d be going nuts. Flyers all the way, but oh would it hurt like heck to watch.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
OMG WOW
Tomas Vokoun signs a one-year deal with the Washington Capitals for $1.5 million.
This makes me extremely mad . . .
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
Okay, that makes me want to cry right there.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. That’s way less than I would have expected.
by 92-74-99-96 on Jul 2, 2011 6:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’d still be ready to cry if it was 1 year at 3M or 4M, in all fairness, since we’re giving Bryz too much for me to comprehend.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
….FOR NINE YEARS!
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Stop rubbing it in!
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think it should be an organizational philosophy that you don’t give a goaltender more than 3 years, like the Phillies philosophy on pitchers (which they broke for Lee, obvs).
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Jul 2, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely.
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
And they better break for Hamels and maybe Madson.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
IDK about Madson. Relief pitchers are volatile. Madson less so than others, but I don’t want to break the bank for him and give him anything outrageous. If he wants too much, let him walk.
Absolutely yes on Hamels. He needs to stay here, especially with this aging core of everyday players.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
If the Flyers still needed a goalie, and Bryzgalov had re-signed in Phoenix, there would have been a bidding war for Vokoun. That didn’t happen, so Vokoun was left with the scraps for Washington (who wasn’t nearly as desperate for a goalie as the Flyers) to pick up for next to nothing.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
True. The Flyers would never have gotten him at that ridiculous price. But, something has to be said for being patient and not revealing your hand immediately.
The Flyers did it when they signed Leighton last summer. Snider and Holgren prematurely blew their load before anything had happened in the market this year. They lost all their leverage when they publicly (and inaccurately) placed all of the blame of losing in the playoffs on the goaltending. And thus, have handicapped themselves in many ways.
Signing Bryz the way they did was a mistake. Seeing the Caps sign Vokoun for dirt cheap is salt in the wound.
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Very good point. I made a similiar point about the Cliff Lee trade but I think that’s on ownership more than RAJ. He basically went to the winter meetings with no leverage because teams knew for certain that Lee had to be dealt.
there would have been a bidding war for Vokoun.
Between who??
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Bryz contract is not a problem for the duration since he is not 35. When he retires the cap his is gone! Also the next time Vokoun plays well in a playoff game will be his first!
Phigment
Oh, hyperbole. So awesome.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I am utterly speechless. Like, wow.
This is horrible in soooo many ways.
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He signed for $1.5 because he is a career bad goalie. Under 500 in the NHL.
Stats are:
262W – 267L – 35T – 41OTL GAA: 2.56 and Save %: .917
SO he is old and never played for a winner. He is 3-8 in the playoffs.
By comparison Bryz numbers are:
156-116-3-35 GAA: 2.53 and Save%: .916
He is 8 and 7 in the playoffs.
SO Bryz is younger, faster, bigger and has carried teams into the playoffs. He also won the gold medal in the WJC. I like having Bryz for long term instead of Vokoun for 1 year.
Phigment
he is a career bad goalie
Save %: .917
Does not compute. Even you just said he never played for a winner, that doesn’t make him a bad goalie.
Last I checked Vokoun had the best ESS% since the lockout, I’m sure Geoff will correct me if I’m wrong.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
IF he was a great goalie he would be better than 500 in that many season. Bryz played for teams just as weak and is well over 500. Actually Bryz if +40 games over 500 playing mostly for Phoenix. That is an accomplishment.
Phigment
PHX is not anywhere near as weak as Florida, even if Bryz kept them in the game sometimes. They scored nearly half a goal more per game than FLA did; and a goalie can’t win without offense. Go look at the rest of Vokoun’s stats and stop looking at wins, because they have just as much to do with an offense that can’t score as they do with the goaltender.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
To follow up on DG’s comment, over the last four seasons (both Vokoun and Bryz were with their previous teams starting in 07-08), Phoenix has averaged 219.5 GF/season. Florida has averaged 213.25. Just based on their offense alone, Phoenix should have won more games. Florida has also declined as Vokoun started playing better, scoring fewer goals, thus making it harder to get a win.
Bob.
Yeah, it’s kind of hard to argue that Bryz played for teams just as weak when a) He won a Stanley Cup as a backup; and b) His team made the playoffs each of the last two years.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Tim Thomas now holds that designation for best ESS% since the lockout. Pretty sure Vokoun had it prior to this year though.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
What???? Is this real? Rolo got 3mil from the Lightning. This doesn’t make any sense.
by mantis toboggan on Jul 2, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
So, uh…we could have had a goaltender AND kept Carter or Richards…or both. Goddamnit.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Jul 2, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ESPN’s Scott Burnside.
Avidly opposed to Ilya Bryzgalov becoming a Philadelphia Flyer
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Just saw it on TSN. I don’t understand how this is possible.
by mantis toboggan on Jul 2, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
His offer with the Avs dried up when they decided to go a different direction, and I’d assume he’d rather go to the Caps than the KHL. He was running out of options fast
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. He obviously wasn’t interested in staying with the Panthers, who surely offered him more than this, either. Can we please stop being suicidal over this?
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I don’t think it’s suicidal so much as a shock. I realize his options were limited, but I think it’s the shock of the past few weeks that are affecting us. Also, Vokoun should have come over at the the deadline last year instead of Versteeg, so there is that.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I would’ve taken Vokoun over Steeg ten times out of ten.
by 92-74-99-96 on Jul 2, 2011 8:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think that was the general consensus around these here parts and part of why Steeg was never really warmly welcomed, fair or not.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I posted somwwhere else that I was disappointed with the Steeg trade, and that was mostly due to thinking Vokoun may be the one traded for.
by 92-74-99-96 on Jul 3, 2011 4:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is infuriating. I want to hurt Paul Holmgren.
by mantis toboggan on Jul 2, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t believe the Avs made those goalie moves. Then again, they traded Anderson for Elliott and don’t even have a goalie coach, so I should probably lower my expectations.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
And to think not only did they pass on Vokoun, they took Varly off the Caps hands which freed the Caps up to grab the best goalie on the market for pennies.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
And Giguere is the backup — his career has been on a steep decline. It does not compute.
I know they wanted Schneider or Bernier, which was pretty unrealistic right now because the Nucks and Kings don’t have to move them for a bit, and would probably rather trade with someone in the East. But Vokoun would have been a far superior stopgap.
Did Vokoun just flat out not want to go to Colorado? Or could they really have not wanted him? I don’t get it!
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Did Vokoun just flat out not want to go to Colorado?
This. I think maybe he wanted a chance at a Cup.
FYI, if so, this is pretty damaging to Homer’s credibility. One thing he could have done is acquire the rights to BOTH Vokoun and Bryzgalov and that would have given him leverage.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
That’s what happens when you have no leverage as a player.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Which the Flyers could have easily exploited. And chose not to.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously make up your mind, now you are saying the flyers could have gotten Vokoun on the cheap just like Washington but two months ago you said “the $7.5 million hypothetical Vokoun-Bobrovsky tandem. Spending $4.8 million to get two additional points is ludicrous”. So which is it Vokoun was way too expensive and would cost around 5 mil a year or the Flyers could have exploited his lack of options?
Of course I am not gloating, regardless of the fact that I did say “I just don’t see Vokoun getting 5.7 mil again” by Highaltitude784 on May 12, 2011 8:45 PM PDT
by Highaltitude784 on Jul 2, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, you’re giving me crap because, in May, I had a hypothetical where Vokoun made $5.7 million?
Nowhere did I say the Flyers could have gotten Vokoun for $1.5 million. Anybody who predicted that would have been laughed out of the room. But back in May, it seemed highly likely that the Panthers would throw money at Vokoun just to get to the cap floor.
The whole argument that the Flyers overpaid by ignoring the market is premised on the fact that they didn’t wait until July 1st to see what the market would be like. Again.
When you get to July 1st and see that a) Vokoun will not re-sign with the Panthers; b) Bryzgalov will not re-sign with Phoenix; and c) Only Colorado is trying to get an elite goalie, you see that there are two elite goalies and only two teams in the market for one.
Even if we throw Tampa and Phoenix into the mix as teams needing a goalie, you have Mike Smith, Dwayne Roloson, Vokoun, and Bryzgalov on the market. You have Colorado who will overpay, but won’t contend. You have Phoenix who won’t overpay, but could contend. You have TB who will contend, and could offer some money. You have Philly who will gladly overpay and will definitely contend.
So Bryzgalov is limited to three teams (TB, COL, and PHI), Vokoun is limited to two (TB and PHI), Smith is limited to two (COL and PHX), and Roloson is limited to three (TB, PHX, and PHI). If Bryzgalov gets thrown a shit ton of money in Colorado, the Flyers either get Roloson or Vokoun. But does Tampa go to July 1 without Roloson when they have to worry about Stamkos? Even if they do, and they give money to Vokoun – who wants to stay in Florida – the Flyers still get Roloson, who they wanted last year. And they didn’t have to overpay for him at all.
Even in the worst-case scenario, where there are four teams looking for a goalie on July 1st, there are three legit number ones, plus Ray Emery and Evgeni Nabokov.
If the Flyers waited to see what the market looked like on July 1st, they would still have gotten a legit NHL starter. And they wouldn’t have had to overpay to do it. Sorry if you saw an inconsistency there, but I’ve always been more opposed to a) ignoring the market; and b) overpaying free agents, less concerned about accurately predicting the market two months in advance.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
A simple I was wrong would have sufficed.
by Highaltitude784 on Jul 3, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Did I make a claim about what he would be paid?
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
WOW
I’ve been looking at the UFA list every few hours and wondering about this. I was getting nervous but didn’t want to post anything.
I now question the entire Flyers front office. I don’t think he would have gone here for $1.5. But probably less than $5.6 for 9 years. (UGH).
Homer may be doing Snider’s bidding, but he nevertheless will be fired if the Flyers do not make the playoffs, or if Bryz is a failure.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Cup favourites.
Mourning Gagne forever.
by ToddtheFox on Jul 2, 2011 7:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m laughing, but there’s a weird hysterical quality to it.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 2, 2011 6:10 PM EDT reply actions
We haven’t made a mind-boggling, roster-pillaging move in almost 24 hours. What gives? /wink
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Good luck, Simon. I would have loved for you to have come back, but I understand why you wouldn’t want to.
Shit… :-\
So, is Schenn ready to go this year? Unless we miraculously got Stamkos (no, I don’t think we are), who is left of the free agents who could make an impact?
Can we please keep Z and have Lavi figure out how to use him properly? He’s a good scoring forward, and he learned how to backcheck and pass over the course of the season.
…sigh…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2011 6:30 PM EDT reply actions
-OR-
We could all act like we didn’t see him controlling play and being exactly what Lavy asked and more in the Buffalo series. This is what I would expect to happen.
Probably right.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
We sure there’s not an issue with Vokoun? Something smells weird how everyone stayed as far away as possible….and now a 1.5 signing?
He tweak himself at the end of the season?
"Ocean: A body of water covering 2/3 of a world MADE for man....who has no gills."
Bryz is a better goalie then vokoun. Surprised caps signed him. I though they were all set with neiuverth and holtby.
Even knowing vokoun would have signed for alot less, I’m happier with bryz schenn and simmonds then I would be with vokoun and richie
by nastynas88 on Jul 2, 2011 6:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Bryz is better than Vokoun based on what statistical metric? Or do you just mean he has more upside, since he’s younger? In any case, Vokoun for one year would’ve been the perfect bridge to the Bob era, and even if the FO shipped out Carts and Richie for a locker-room culture change, we could’ve gotten those players you like, PLUS made a serious run at Stamkos.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 2, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I just feel overall, bryz is a better option for this team right now.
Personally I am not as confident in bob as everyone else. I still think he can be a good goalie one day, but u think he is still very far.
We have seen goalies come in and have 50 great games, then fizzle off into nowhere land(chechmanek, esche)
It is not a coincidence bob went undrafted.
by nastynas88 on Jul 2, 2011 7:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just feel overall, bryz is a better option for this team right now.
This isn’t the same thing as “Bryz is better than Vokoun.” So I’ll accept your back pedal and move on.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it is?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and are you going to have to change your .sig?
After all, Boosh is gone and Homer didn’t include Calvert in the Carter trade.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Of course not. Still a Boucher lover.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
While I agree that bryz’s stats are only slightly better, there is a reason that bryz is getting Paid 5x more then vokoun. We all know how goalies are the greatest wild card in hockey, but purchasing bargain goalies hasn’t worked in Philly in 20 years. And yes, if you ask who is a better goalie today, not 5 years ago, I feel that many people would chose bryz.
by nastynas88 on Jul 2, 2011 7:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
While I agree that bryz’s stats are only slightly better,
Actually, over their careers and past 3 years, Vokoun is better. Bryz was only better this past year.
there is a reason that bryz is getting Paid 5x more then vokoun.
Because the Flyers are the brat who says “I want that! NOW! I don’t care how much, give me THAT! NOW!”?
but purchasing bargain goalies hasn’t worked in Philly in 20 years.
Just because the Flyers didn’t pay much for their goalies doesn’t mean they weren’t good goalies. Martin Biron’s career numbers are just as good as Kiprusoff, Turco, and Quick’s. Vanbiesbrouck performed just as good over the three years following his contract with PHI as Richter did. Roman Cechmanek was a top-5 goalie for the short time he was here.
The Flyers have had good goaltending. They simply got it cheap. Further, the list of things that hasn’t worked in Philly for 20 years is ridiculous long, since there has literally been nothing that has worked. Singling out goaltending is ignoring that 1) Big centers; 2) trading/signing all your defensemen; 3) Having an enforcer; 4) Trading away draft picks; 5) Building a team through free agency; 6) Changing coaches; 7) Having a vocal leader; 8) Having a demonstrative leader; 9) Having power forwards; and oh so many more. None of them have worked either.
And yes, if you ask who is a better goalie today, not 5 years ago, I feel that many people would chose bryz.
Of course, because Bryz is on the Flyers. If you ask any disinterested party (i.e. anybody who has allegiances other than Florida, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Nashville, and Washington), they’ll split 50/50 on who the better goalie is today.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Has been for several hours. Would have posted this to you in TGP had I known you did not know.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
I didn’t read the time of this thread. I thought it just came out and then I saw the Richards new on the side panel and thought it was new. Le Derp.
Not a problem. It’s just that this was discussed in several threads already, thanks to our required-new-thread-every-hour-thanks-to-Homer’s-infinite-number-of-moves-in-the-last-week-blog-status
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Vokoun doesn’t sign for 1.5 mil with Washington if our Bryz domino doesn’t fall first. Does anyone really think that if both hit the FA market Vokoun would be making 1.5 mil? I must say it really played out well for the Caps getting him on the cheap and getting those pics from the AVS. Maybe that’s what’s holding up any Bob deal. Homer saw what the Caps got for Varlamoz. But going back to Vokoun it’s supply and demand it ain’t the first time a player’s over played his hand it won’t be the last. Most guys this year over played this year in free agency and won big.. cough couch Leino.
I don’t understand this thinking.
Two elite goaltenders, and… only one elite team in the market for an elite goaltender. There is no bidding war. Even after Washington traded Varlamov, they weren’t going to get into a bidding war when they had Holtby.
There was no market for UFA goaltenders, but the Flyers bid against themselves.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
There was no market for UFA goaltenders, but the Flyers bid against themselves.
This. The goalie market crashed in July 2010. Homer did not anticipate this and signed Leighton. But Snider wasn’t paying attention and demanded Homer get a “franchise goalie.” So he did, and like homeowners in 2007, paid at the top of the market. But the market is still not recovered.
Note that AFAIK no UFA goalie got more than $3 million, and that ironically was Roloson. Giguere got $1.5,
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Philly has been looking for an established stud goalie since Parent was injured. Pelle had too short a run to be considered great – he was on his way to long term greatness but it was not meant to be. Hextall had incredible runs as did numerous other guys, but nobody has sustained greatness for 30+ years. Snider has been the owner all this time and wanted to end this issue.
Phigment
Like the homeowner who said, “it’s time we finally buy a house!” In 2007.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
by Bud in TN on Jul 2, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can look at every team in the NHL and choose one player on every roster that is overpaid. That is just the nature of the sport.
How can anyone feel that bob and boosh could have won us a cup in the next 3 years?
I would have paid bryz 7 mil if I’m meant I wouldn’t have to go through what we did last postseason.
Again, just having bryz doesn’t guarantee anything either, I understand that.
by nastynas88 on Jul 2, 2011 8:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
But we have more than one. More than two, even. Heck, more than three.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Some of those overpaid contracts that we have might’ve looked even worse in this FA market
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
By my count: Bryz, Hartnell, Kimmo (sorry), Briere (sorry, again, for me), Shelley, Talbot (?). Am I forgetting any overpaid Flyers?
Why do we constantly bid against ourselves? The Flyers really are the NYY of hockey.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
It would be splitting hairs, but you could just as easily throw Pronger and Meszaros in on that. Versteeg prior to his being traded.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
How can anyone feel that bob and boosh could have won us a cup in the next 3 years?
Niemi managed to hold us a bay just enough for the Blackhawks to beat us.
Isn’t Roberto Luongo a premiere goalie?
This doesn’t mean a goalie can’t steal you a series, Tim Thomas was amazing, but building your team on this assumption by overpaying for a free agent seems like quite gamble in light of how volatile the position can be. It’s a cart before the horse strategy. With the hard cap, a gamble like that, if it fails to deliver, can hamstring your team for several seasons whereas home grown talent like BOB gives you more options because right now he’s cost controlled and cheap.
Niemi also played a full season in the AHL before making the jump to a back up in the NHL, and then eventually the starter to the end of the 2010 season.
If you ask me, bringing in bob as a starter before he ever played one game in north America was a mistake, but he was so impressive in camp it wasn’t even a question to start him
by nastynas88 on Jul 2, 2011 9:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It could go either way – Niemi had three years of experience in SM-liiga, which is the top Finnish league. Bob had three years plus a few extra games in the RSL/KHL, which is a tougher league, plus Bob had experience in the Super Series and the World Juniors. Chicago also had Khabibulin and Huet, so they had acceptable depth in goal.
Bob.
How can anyone feel that bob and boosh could have won us a cup in the next 3 years?
Because they both had save percentages above the league average for NHL starters? Because they backstopped the Flyers to the #2 seed in the East? Because it meant the Flyers could spend money on another scoring winger?
There are many ways.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Because Chris Osgood’s name is on the Stanley Cup.
Three times.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jul 2, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You, sir: Well done.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, though, I know we’ve discussed him being the worst goalie to win a Cup. I vaguely thought I remembered he had won it multiple times. When I saw “SC” next to three of his seasons, my mental reaction can be summed up in three words:
Oh hell no.
Bob.
And doesn’t he have 400 wins? If that doesn’t prove that wins is a flawed stat by which to judge Bryz and Vokoun, I don’t know what does.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I rest my case.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
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