Tomas Vokoun signs with Caps for $4.166 million less than Ilya Bryzgalov
by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2011 7:56 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Flyers Commentary
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As the first day of free agency wore on Friday afternoon, it quickly became evident that Tomas Vokoun wasn't going to get a lot of money. Hell, it became evident that he wasn't going to get a lot of money hours and perhaps days before the free agent market opened.
Ilya Bryzgalov was already off the market for nine years with a mega deal from the Flyers a week prior and Tampa re-upped Dwayne Roloson before the UFA market opened. Colorado took care of their situation on July 1 by signing Jean-Sebastien Giguere and trading for Seymon Varlamov, and the Coyotes took care of their void with former Lightning backup Mike Smith.
And on Saturday night, Vokoun signed a one year deal worth $1.5 million to play goal in the Nation's Capital. And hey, why not? Nobody else wanted him -- arguably the best goaltender on the market this year.
You know where we're going with this already, but let's compare salaries, via CapGeek.com.
| Goalie | Ilya Bryzgalov | J-S Giguere | Tomas Vokoun | Seymon Varlamov | Mike Smith | Dwayne Roloson |
| Age | 31 | 34 | 35 | 23 | 29 | 41 |
| EV SV% | 0.931 | 0.910 | 0.919 | 0.930 | 0.900 | 0.924 |
| 2011-12 | $5,666,667 | $1,250,000 | $1,500,000 | $2,833,333 | $2,000,000 | $3,000,000 |
| 2012-13 | $5,666,667 | $1,250,000 | UFA | $2,833,333 | $2,000,000 | UFA |
| 2013-14 | $5,666,667 | UFA | $2,833,333 | UFA | ||
| 2014-15 | $5,666,667 | UFA | ||||
| 2015-16 | $5,666,667 | |||||
| 2016-17 | $5,666,667 | |||||
| 2017-18 | $5,666,667 | |||||
| 2018-19 | $5,666,667 | |||||
| 2019-20 | $5,666,667 | |||||
| 2020-21 | UFA |
(True story: I had to switch from a horizontal table to a vertical table because Bryzgalov's contract is so long, it wouldn't have fit on the page without stretching things out of proportion.)
Something stands out, and it's not good for the Flyers. We're not saying the Flyers shouldn't have gotten a goaltender (although we still believe Bob was a fine option), but a little patience in a goalie market that wasn't all that competitive would have been ideal.
Yes, Bryzgalov had the best even strength save percentage of the bunch. Yes, he's younger than Vokoun.
But this isn't necessarily even hindsight: If Bryzgalov hits unrestricted free agency, there's a chance he could have gone elsewhere, but the July 1 market clearly benefited the team, not the goalies. Bryzgalov would not have gotten $5.66 million a year (especially not for NINE YEARS) on the open market.
And we could have predicted that from a mile away. We definitely could have figured it out a week ago. It's simple: Six goalies, how many teams looking for goalies? Not more than six. Buyers market.
Could we have seen such a low number for Vokoun? No, not that low. But a number less than Bryzgalov? Much less than Bryzgalov? Yes. A thousand times yes.
The one team that opted out of that market wound up getting the worst of the deals, and again, that could have been expected -- not to mention that they had to completely re-shape their championship caliber team to make it happen. Hell, they have a history of this, completely misjudging the UFA goalie market a year ago by giving Michael Leighton a bad contract before free agency opened.
This is what happens when you overreact, Uncle Ed. George McPhee showed a little patience and now, the Caps are the clear-cut favorites in the Eastern Conference and perhaps even the league.
The Flyers? Well, who knows? We need name tags, thanks to a massive team-altering contract that wasn't necessary.
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This is by far the most upsetting thing I’ve read in 8 days. And that’s saying something.
by Boundforbeach on Jul 2, 2011 10:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They are weak on the 2nd line with no clear cut center and the defense is questionable at times. They also now have a goalie that is clearly not better than the 2 kids they had before they signed him. This is just like Chicago signing Turco last season. Vokoun will not be the starter by the playoffs.
Phigment
They also now have a goalie that is clearly not better than the 2 kids they had before they signed him.
Wow, this is simply not true. And amazingly so at that.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m a huge Neuvirth fan and I know there is zero chance he outplays a healthy Vokoun this year.
I’m not sure we are favorites, there is a lot left to be done and I have a feeling Semin is going to leave in a pretty significant trade. We have to sign Brouwer and Alzner, so you know that money has to come from somewhere. We’ll see who goes and what the return is. I don’t think we have much leverage now, and you know how that plays out on trade scenarios. I don’t like having both of those guys exposed to an offer sheet, but it seems like if someone was going to make an offer it’d have been done by now.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I don’t discount the possibility that Neuvirth is the playoff starter. Anything can happen, even Bobrovsky being the Flyers playoff starter. But saying Holtby and Neuvirth are better than Vokoun is insane. And so very, very wrong.
As far as favorites go… the Caps won the East last year. Getting Vokoun to replace Varlamov is… kind of a sideways move in terms of talent. Health is an issue for Varly, age for Vokoun. Varlamov should improve upon his numbers, Vokoun should get slightly worse. But they saved money doing it and got a 1st and a 2nd/3rd round pick.
I don’t see this signing putting the Caps over the top, since they already had great goaltending. But that’s me. The rest of your statement, I largely agree.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think it put them over the top either, but I do think it was a more positive move than you do. I’m not high on Varlamov being able to contribute for a full year so I think this makes us significantly better in net.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
And I’m okay with that. The problem is that people here think Varlamov’s problem is talent, not health.
You, as an intelligent individual, put more reliance on his health. And that’s fair. haha.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Sad but true. For such a great organization we really get let down by some high level personnel decisions
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Please take into account that Homer put a great team together over the last several years. Most of the people I know (including more than a few here) believe this particular goalie clusterfuck is all on Ed Snider. Homer was forced to do some of these things, and has at least done a good job with his shitty hand.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
This is a valid point.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt. I’m just shocked at how often we go nuts in overpayment, too many years, etc.
@philatticus on Twitter
Yes, but some of that is the cap, and how they have made deals fit—the years at least. Homer was one of the first to start doing some of that, with the Kimmo deal. And as to overpayment, sometimes that happens, not just to the Flyers, although Homer has done it more than most I would say, this year mostly because he was put in that position by Snider (at least with Bryz).
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 4, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Varlamov has undeniable talent. If he puts together a healthy season COL won’t feel too bad. I hope he just waits another year before getting healthy. I’d love a lotto pick out of it.
I don’t see how COL gave up that much for him. If LAK or VAN would accept a 1 and a 2 for Bernier/Schneider, aren’t they more enticing options?
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I think Bernier/Schneider are slightly more enticing because they don’t have a) The KHL threat; and b) The injury risk.
But in terms of talent? They’re really close.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, but we know how much difference a marginal talent increase/decrease makes over the course of the season, so if it’s relatively equal I go for the more reliable choices. Would LAK or VAN not part with either guy for a 1 and a 2? That seems odd to me.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Oh, I agree on going more reliable.
But in terms of LAK and VAN trading their goalies, they still have immense value to those teams as they are on their ELCs. Let’s wait to see what they do next year when those goalies are RFAs.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
But the immense value of the ELC is seriously undercut by being in the backup role. They’d have much more value as a starter (and presumably could cash in on the trade for that value). And at least Schneider doesn’t look like he’ll ever be the starter in the eyes of the organization. Bernier could potentially surpass Quick, but both seem to have more trade value than on-ice value for their team.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I don’t think the value is undercut at all. Instead, I think it’s just not being utilized to its full potential.
But there’s no reason to trade a goalie on their ELC so you can go grab a Boucher or Garon type to be the backup. Same cost, less talent, less skill. Hold onto them until the ELC is up and you can make a choice.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe, but I’m less concerned about the value-over-contract, and more concerned with value-in-trade. If he’s not going to be the G of the future, sell him when he’s at high value. For Schneider, that might be right now (he’s better than Luongo!) regardless of contractual status.
The distinction between under-utilized and under-cut is semantics, I think.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Fair enough. I just wonder whether Luongo has higher trade value than Schneider though. Probably not, especially in this market, but I really like what L.A. is doing. They have two young, cheap goalies. No need to trade one of them.
Schneider is a bit different, but I also think they missed their chance to trade him. With Varlamov being traded, Bryzgalov signing, and Phoenix going with Mike Smith, I think they missed their window to get great value.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly right on both Luongo and the Schneider trade. No need to tie into Luongo’s long term deal when there is a lot of young talent around the league.
I’m wondering why COL didn’t offer the same deal for Schneider, and why VAN would turn it down? Why did VAN miss the chance? Did COL not like Schneider or did VAN want to keep him as the backup?
And I agree that LAK had no reason to more either young goalie, it’s a nice position to be in. But at some point if that’s your position of strength you need to move a guy to address a position of need (in LAK’s case, wing).
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Yeah, I’d be curious about COL and VAN too. With LA getting Gagne though, I think they have another season before needing to trade one. Even then, they still have both signed to under $2 mil for 12-13 as well.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
LA should be ecstatic with having Gagne and Richards together. That’s the makings of a very good two way shutdown line if Gags can stay healthy.
Meh.
Even still, with Brown on the right side, they should still be ecstatic.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, even before Gagne I loved the thought of Richards and Brown. That’s going to be a fun team to watch.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
And obviously about Brown. I just am very excited at the possibility of Gags returning to Richie’s wing. Richards, I have to imagine is pretty pumped about his potential linemates.
Meh.
Yeah, Gagne/Richards both have to be pumped. When Quisp(?) came over here asking who Richards played best with, my answer was simply “Gagne”. haha
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Bernier could potentially surpass Quick, but both seem to have more trade value than on-ice value for their team.
He’s a definite trading chip. But they’d prefer to wait on the goalie issue until they are sure they are moving the right one.
Hextall, for one, reportedly thinks Bernier’s talents are “ungodly.”
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Obviously, he's hellishly bad and we're incredibly fortunate
to have escaped without trading for him.
Bob.
Well, DUH.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, they have COOKIES!
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Kings fan here, and I have to say that a 1st and a 2nd from Colorado for Bernier would be MIGHTY tempting…and I’m a big Bernier fan.
I know it’s been a tough few days for you guys but I’m rooting for you. Here’s to Bryz being the guy I desperately wanted out of the division…
You’re last comment I’ve heard from a lot of Western Conf fans. That bodes well, I reckon.
How is he up close, from a fan’s perspective?
@philatticus on Twitter
Bryz? Well, when he is on his game I think he is one of the top keepers around, and I think placing him in the top 5 wouldn’t be overstating things. He was always tough on the Kings from his days in Anaheim and that continued with Phoenix so having him far, far away can only be a good thing.
Obviously he did not play well in the playoffs this year but I don’t think it is a fair rap to say he is a playoff choker. In 2006 with Anaheim he was pretty much lights out (3 shutouts in a row if I remember right) but faltered a little bit vs. Edmonton (then again the whole team did). In 2007 he was was solid against Detroit, replacing Giguere who was out because of his kid. Long story short, he has certainly had success in the playoffs and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him have it again.
Overall, his best attributes are his ability to control rebounds and his size/positioning. He plays his angles very well and “saves” so many goals over the course of a season by limiting second chances via rebounds. With Pronger and the rest of your D clearing the front of the net I think he could be very successful in Philly.
Obviously, the contract is, ah, well, interesting (this thread has been epic, by the way). But, if he can get you one cup over the life of the contract then it will have been worth it.
Best of luck, and think of me when “Meat Train” gets his first Gordie Howe hat trick for you…you have a keeper in Simmonds.
I think the Caps were dangerous, and are now more dangerous, and now have a potential lottery pick in the draft next year.
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Really? What has Vokoun ever won? He is also getting quite up there in years.
Both the kids in Washington won Calder Cups in Hershey. I think Holtby is the best of the bunch and he kind of played like it this past year. He made Valarmov expendable. I am actually surprised that Washington signed Vokoun. They got him for a bargin price, but I really do not think they needed a goalie.
Phigment
Maybe that is my point exactly. He is the goalie and has never had a chance! Bryz played for Phoenix and won more playoff games in 1 season that Vokoun has won in his entire career. Read that slower – Bryz played for the BANKRUPT PHOENIX COYOTES that have been so poor that the NHL had to take over the team!
Phigment
So your argument is that Bryzgalov played for a better team, therefore Vokoun sucks?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope. I am saying that Bryz played for a team so bad that the league had to run them through bankruptcy and still got his team into the playoffs in the Western conference the last 2 years.
I also stated the simple fact that at any level Vokoun has never won anything!
Phigment
The Coyotes really weren’t that bad! This year they had a points percentage of .604 (the Flyers’ was .646), while Floridas was .439. They’re not even close
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
But, but, but they were in bankruptcy! So clearly, the Coyotes are a bad team because they, uh… they… couldn’t make money.
Just like the Rays! Yeah! The Tampa Rays suck because they have the worst attendance.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
And the Coyotes still had what, 2.5 times the TV ratings that the Panthers did?
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
So you’re basing the skill level of a team on the competency of their ownership?
Not only are you using wins to evaluate goalies, you’re using ownership to evaluate the skill level of teams.
And you don’t find anything wrong with this at all. It’s mind-boggling.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Vokoun isn’t elite because his teams haven’t been elite? Okay.
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by red army line on Jul 3, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not even that close to being correct. It’s that Bryzgalov’s teams aren’t elite either, based on how successful the business side of the Coyotes is.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
So Michel Plasse was an awesome goalie, then? He took Pittsburgh to the playoffs for two years when they were going through bankruptcy. And of course, Lemieux got his ownership stake in the Pens went they went bankrupt again, this time with Tom Barrasso as their goalie.
Oh, and the Kings went bankrupt while Gretzky was there.
Bob.
I love...
people who don’t know how to assess a goalie.
Wins is a team stat. Goalies don’t win games on their own. Popular hockey media doesn’t know what it’s talking about. So much of how they are assessed is based off team successes or failures.
If you were really into hockey, you would know that. Go back to watching baseball or something.
Vokoun is one of the best goalies in the league.
by Hunter Durfee on Jul 3, 2011 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
You cannot equate Vokoun and Turco. Please check their stats over their careers. And for that matter, this would also not pass the “eye test.”
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I was only using Turco as a comparison for a team that had a quality young goalie and clearly “reached” for a veteran goalie that was past his prime.
Phigment
“reached”? Turco signed a one-year, $1.3 million contract.
To put that in perspective, the Blackhawks signed him to the same amount as Sean O`Donnell. And you’re calling that a reach.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He signed for less than Michael Leighton.
"We didn't do it the easy way. We took the hard way to do it. But we are part of history now."
Thomas Vokoun is making less that Michael Leighton
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Err, Tomas.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Horrifying, isn’t it?
"We didn't do it the easy way. We took the hard way to do it. But we are part of history now."
Yeah.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Now he’s a goalie I wanted no part of last year. He’s got a Thomas-esque style, but he’s slowed down big time over the past couple years. When they said last year that he wanted 4-5+, my jaw fell into the wastebasket next to my desk at work.
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I didn’t want him either, but for $1.3 million? Sign me up and let Leighton go.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. That was another shocker, but I always believed that the 4-5+ annual thing was more puffery than not. I mean, really, who the hell was he trying to kid?
@philatticus on Twitter
Well, Bryzgalov did the same thing and got it, so…
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes they reached. After Chicago had to run away – not walk away – from the Niemi arbitration, the only goalie they could sign was Turco with the limited budget they had left under the salary cap hell that Talon left them within. And clearly last season’s performance in Chicago showed that Turco is NOT an NHL goalie any more.
Leighton was also a reach, but I was not comparing those two signings.
Phigment
I’m sorry, none of that explains how a $1.3 million, one-year contract signed on August 3rd, is a reach.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you watch Turco play last season? If he was in Philly for $1.3 you would have been furious! As Captain Hindsight – It was a reach. Also in the same role, the Leighton signing was a mistake, a huge mistake since the player was obviously injured and hiding it from the team.
Now think about this scenario. Homer waited until July 1 this year and didn’t sign a goalie early. Bryz signs with Washington or anyone in the East and Homer spends $1.5 for Vokoun. This thread would be exploding how “the Flyers went bargain basement on goalies again….Beezer…..Hacket….should have signed Cujo…….” So this year the team went out and got the best goalie on the market…who also happens to be one of the best goalies in the league, and nobody is happy still?
Seriously…what would make the fans happy? Last time I checked this team is being run by people in the business that not only have played the game at the NHL level, they scout the players daily in person, they network with friends within the game, and yet people from their sofas know more than these guys? I just don’t get it.
Well to the Broad Street Hockey guys out there, the attitudes of superiority on this site have finally gotten to me. Tired of all the crap on the threads here…. All season long the threads were how Carter sucked, they trade him and you all explode – How could they trade Carter?
Now as a former reader of this site….Ba Bye!
Phigment
Seriously…what would make the fans happy?
A Stanley Cup.
Last time I checked this team is being run by people in the business that not only have played the game at the NHL level, they scout the players daily in person, they network with friends within the game, and yet people from their sofas know more than these guys? I just don’t get it.
So they have carte blanche to do what they want because of their resume? I’ve been at my job 11 years, but that doesn’t mean I don’t make mistakes, or others don’t have a better way of doing it.
I'm kind of a dick.
AMF.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
All season long the threads were how Carter sucked, they trade him and you all explode – How could they trade Carter?
Now as a former reader of this site….Ba Bye!
Are you sure you were a former reader of this site? Because there was a ton of praise thrown Carter’s way this year. And a lot of, “I was wrong about Carter” as well.
But whatever, via con Bryos.
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via con Bryos.
Don, lol. No one else caught this.
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Haha, I didn’t see it because my stupid Z button was being uncooperative earlier so I refreshed the page and forgot it would remove all the “New Post” orangey color.
Awesome, Don.
Slight nitpick: It’s “vaya” rather than “via”
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I’m 12 years removed from Spanish, I can still speak it, but writing it, there’s not a chance. I haven’t had to spell conjugations of verbs since HS.
Meh.
No worries. I only remembered it because I’ve seen the phrase itself written out before. I barely remember conjugations and I’m only 6 years removed.
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Yeah I love languages, but learning to write any, or even remembering, is well past the point of being useful. I’d like to learn to speak one or two more. I never learned German, but I lived there for a summer, and learned to speak it enough to get by, unfortunately without a foundation, or any real opportunities to use it, I’ve forgotten most all of the language.
Meh.
Still doesn’t explain how $1.3 million is a reach.
Oh well. So long.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
If Vokoun was on a 1.5 for you I’m pretty sure everyone would be talking about how awesome the Flyers did on the UFA market for a goalie, not calling them bargain basement. I get the natural tendency to prop your guy over another, and maybe Bryz is even better than Vokoun, but the difference isn’t all that great and there’s no way any team would be criticized for signing Vokoun. You make it sound like PHI just locked up Tretiak in his prime and the Caps went for a bargain on Dan Cloutier.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
How do we smite thee? Let me count the ways.
Did you watch Turco play last season? If he was in Philly for $1.3 you would have been furious! As Captain Hindsight – It was a reach.
The guy had a .926 even strength save percentage in ‘09-10, 10th best in the league. A 1.3M contract was by no means out of line for him. The fact that he didn’t perform up to that contract falls on him for underproducing (or on random variance), not on the team for “reaching”.
Also in the same role, the Leighton signing was a mistake, a huge mistake since the player was obviously injured and hiding it from the team.
The injury to Leighton had almost nothing to do with why that signing was a mistake. Leighton has a career as a replacement-level goaltender. The stellar 2009-10 season that got him that big deal was a .904 ESS%, 44th best in the league. The injury was a godsend because it meant that Leighton didn’t get to be the starter for 30 games before they gave up on him.
Now think about this scenario. Homer waited until July 1 this year and didn’t sign a goalie early. Bryz signs with Washington or anyone in the East and Homer spends $1.5 for Vokoun. This thread would be exploding how "the Flyers went bargain basement on goalies again….Beezer…..Hacket….should have signed Cujo……."
Are you kidding? Perhaps you missed this article, in which Geoff suggested that Vokoun would improve the Flyers by more than Bryzgalov would, and argued that the Flyers should not sign a goalie with a cap hit so large that it would cost them Jeff Carter?
So this year the team went out and got the best goalie on the market…who also happens to be one of the best goalies in the league, and nobody is happy still?
When it costs them Carter and Richards? No, that doesn’t make us happy.
Seriously…what would make the fans happy? Last time I checked this team is being run by people in the business that not only have played the game at the NHL level, they scout the players daily in person, they network with friends within the game, and yet people from their sofas know more than these guys? I just don’t get it.
For two years in a row, 29 teams with people with that same training, networking, and scouting have decided that goalies weren’t worth all that much and have gotten bargains, while one team has paid way more than anyone else would. And there’s a perception that this year that decision was driven by an owner who did not play the game at the NHL level or scout the players daily in person. So why should we blindly believe that our owner knows more than 29-30 GMs and every analyst out there?
Well to the Broad Street Hockey guys out there, the attitudes of superiority on this site have finally gotten to me. Tired of all the crap on the threads here….
Just to be clear, this isn’t a BSH thing.
Arctic Ice Hockey titled their article about the Bryzgalov signing “Flyers, yet again, make no ”http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2011/6/24/2242108/flyers-yet-again-make-no-sense" target="new">sense". If you search the BSH blogs, you’ll find that the fans of basically every team are laughing at this move.
All season long the threads were how Carter sucked, they trade him and you all explode – How could they trade Carter?
This is every bit as ridiculous as the claim that we would have hated the signing of Vokoun for 1.5M. Geoff’s article that I linked above specifically said the reason he didn’t want Bryzgalov was because it would cost them Carter. In one article, I wrote “”http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2011/6/1/2200025/jeff-carter-two-way-forward" target="new">This year has been arguably his most effective, but he has been handling tough assignments for most of his career." In another article, Geoff wrote “”http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2011/6/4/2204756/comparing-jeff-carter-to-nhls-elite-shows-he-fits-in" target="new">Those who criticize Carter need to look inward as he was one of the best forwards in the NHL this past year. You don’t accomplish what he has through luck, laziness, or softness." At the moment the trade occurred, I was putting the finishing touches on an article that argued there was no gap between Giroux and Carter in the team MVP race this year.
The community gave him an 8/10 on a scale where 5 means “met expectations”.
It really doesn’t seem like you understood the mindset around here.
by Eric T. on Jul 3, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
It is comments like this where I am reminded how much we need a Comment Hall of Fame.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t let the virtual door hit you on your way off the internets.
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by Chemistry66 on Jul 3, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m drunk in Miami and heard Vokoun got 1.5 aav. Im thinking someone’s playing a joke on me… how is this possible?
by OrangeNblacK on Jul 2, 2011 8:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I’d also say that “overreacting” is trading away your two centerpiece players 1 year removed from going to game 6 of the SCF and a few months removed from a 106-point season in which you won a series and lost in the second round to the eventual Cup champion. Bah.
I want to believe that this team can grow into a Cup contender. I really do. I just don’t see it.
I just wanted to say, awesome posting name.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Google was very not that helpful in figuring out what it referred to, haha. Linked me to a sauce brand and to pages on the Carolinas.
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Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
“Madagascar”?
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it’s just a reference to the Carolinas.
by Cackalacky Mike on Jul 3, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Predicting a market before it exists is a fool’s game, especially in something as elastic as pro-athletes. Homer/Snider bet and they lost. Common occurrence, really. It blows, but it’s not really shocking at all—and thus I don’t blame them in the least.
@philatticus on Twitter
Predicting a market before it exists is a fool’s game, especially in something as elastic as pro-athletes.
How hard is it to count? Number of elite goalies v. Teams who need a goalie.
That’s not predicting a market, that’s doing 2nd grade math.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
And you have last year’s goalie market as an indication of how flooded the league is with goalie talent. It shouldn’t be a shock to anyone that supply outstrips demand in the G market. And in the goal scoring market, demand outstrips supply, so anyone that has a chance at 20 goals is going to make 4.5 on the open market.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Hell, the Flyers fucked it last year too when they paid Leighton before the UFA market opened. Should’ve learned the lesson.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus, as I’ve posted elsewhere, the market crashed in July 2010 and has not recovered.
While Ed Snider saw Tim Thomas doing acrobatics, every other GM saw Luongo being inconsistent, and/or remembered Tim Thomas of 2009-10.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Ugh, you reminded me of a tweet someone sent Carchidi. The “Boston model” is being followed. “good D and goalie, throw forwards on the ice.”
Yes. Because who wants to build a complete team, let’s just go from a complete team to one dimensional and put all the hopes on two guys who are on the wrong side of 30.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus, no everyone has a Patrice Bergeron to throw on the ice. Boston had three pretty good lines and 2 4th line forwards that didn’t get destroyed (Thornton is another matter), it wasn’t just throwing forwards onto the ice.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 2, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, true. But to writers and readers of the Inquirer, the Bruins had no forwards.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
As do the Blue Jackets.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Rick Nash is pretty overrated. Better scorer than Bergeron, sure, but not as good on D and not a C.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
He was talking about Carter.
Mourning Gagne forever.
by ToddtheFox on Jul 3, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha, thanks Todd.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
WTH, SBN?
That comment used to say “two guys on the wrong side of 35, and a third on the wrong side of 30”.
Exactly. [By the way Geoff, loved your deleted post on this subject, it was top-notch]
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 2, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, thanks. I moved it over to SBNPhilly since Travis beat me to publishing.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
winning
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
CharlieSheen!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a far too simplistic look at the market here. You factor in a variety of different costs to each actor—information, agency, etc—and it puts a market like this, again, highly elastic, where as the commenter (Fehr) stated that demand far outdoes supply, and you have a highy volatile and unpredictable market.
Examples of costs and externalities that play into it—information cost is the biggest one. Here, you’re looking at this with hindsight. OF COURSE it looks terrible in hindsight. But the information available at the time was highly “costly.” What that means is that the Flyers paid—fairly or not—to be insulated from risk, inherently creating a moral hazard. Factor that in, and then look at it today, and you can see that they insulated themselves from risk and still, in theory got burned.
Further, you have agency costs and administrative costs. Once the Flyers pulled the trigger on the trade, these go way up. Yes, that is from their own volitional action, but still, the market/economic effect is very apparent—they lose leverage and thus it costs more, particularly when you have the “principal” (Snider) demanding that his “agent” (Homer) get something done. Those costs inflate the price as well.
And then you have the externalities, the effects on third parties. Do you really think Vokoun would have gotten this WITHOUT Bryz signing? The easy answer is “of course!” The correct answer is hardly. The Caps were able to be choosy, and with little to no openings left (foreseeable, at least, again, more information = more $$!!), thus lowering the leverage Vokoun had.
Why do I say that? Basic market economics. If you have 2 products, each equally valuable, with a market for both, you’re going to have competition amongst those products and the sellers. Vokoun was competing against himself here, and it hurt him.
So while a basic assumption that mere division results in a market, it ignores major market forces and undermines economic analysis.
@philatticus on Twitter
UH-OH
You throw around those economic terms a little too loosely my boy.
Unless you want me to lecture you on Coase, Williamson, Ricardo, Schumpeter and a whole lot of others I would keep quiet on that. This is what I do for a living.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Of course I do, this is a sports blog :).
Thanks for reminding me I forgot about transaction costs.
Regardless of the “loosiness,” the point remains that I completely agree they overpaid, but that was not establishable ahead of time to any degree of actionable certainty.
@philatticus on Twitter
You are not my doctoral student. I am not getting paid to type anything. Therefore, I will limit my responses.
I’ll just say, most of your analogies are not relevant in the context, with the possible exception of the Snider-as-principal discussion.
But the one that is entirely wrong and out of context is:
What that means is that the Flyers paid—fairly or not—to be insulated from risk, inherently creating a moral hazard
I encourage you to review that theory prior to using it in other contexts. (I really don’t care whether or not you use it here).
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
I’ve used it widely enough, but in a different context (legal decision making and taxation). The analogy for moral hazard simply doesn’t work, thanks for correcting me.
I’d have to disagree with information costs though. I think that absolutely matters here. You have no idea what’s going to happen on/after July 1st, too much ambiguity. The cost of information is higher before then, and Snider & Co. paid that price because they wanted as little risk as possible. That’s very valid, and goes with a lot of mainstream thinking, particularly the newer behavioral realm.
@philatticus on Twitter
First, this was a nice reply. I was grumpy last night.
I still think you’re wrong, however. This all assumes there is no information leakage, which is not realistic. OTOH, this does reinforce your point about agency; Homer should have known what was going on, but could not have done anything about it anyway. Your externalities example is doubtful (but students and others tend to overuse that term anyway, so maybe you get a pass on that).
It’s really IMO that Homer never read Nash. Get rights to multiple UFA goalies prior to July 1. If you don’t care about Gagne’s feelings, I don’t understand why you would worry about freaking out agents.
You know, I think I’m going to be frequently grumpy in the next few weeks. :-((
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
I tend to agree with you in all this talk. All I have is an MS in Economics and work in a field that encourages me to forget about all the academic research I had done. So I don’t consider myself much of a reliable source any more, but I tend to agree with you here FWIW.
Meh.
That’s a good point about information leakage; it’s also hard to presume the opposite (that there was, etc.), which sorta makes the whole endeavor highly speculative at best, no?
I agree with the externalities thing/misuse; I def did not think it through in using it, and am used to it being so common in many taxation issues and corporate director issues (where I’ve researched/written about).
And no worries. I’ve only really studied economics in college and then in law school under Henry Manne (he’s not a visiting professor at my law school). I’m used to a very, very, very old school economics where everyone is wrong and the market is always crazy. I’ve begun dabbling in behavioral economics, if only because it applies to taxation issues much easier, and FWIW, much more akin to observed behavior, than traditional, Chicago school stuff. So my apologies :).
@philatticus on Twitter
Not a problem. FYI, I like Ariely, too.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Yes, Predictably Irrational is one of the best, most straightforward applications of behavioral economics out there. The pen and suit example is so reflective of real life it’s nuts.
Status quo bias and anchoring is supremely interesting to me, as is heuristics. Perception is also big. For example, the big thing in taxation is income, right? Well if the actor doesn’t perceive something as income, they’re not going to pay taxes. Compliance is a big issue. So if you tie the definition of income to a highly perceivable event, you may raise compliance, even unknowingly to the taxpayer. There was a paper done on that a few years back, it’s fairly interesting in its use of perception, economics, and regulatory scheming.
@philatticus on Twitter
A) I’m not looking at this in hindsight at all. We all knew Bryzgalov would get around $5.5 – $6 million because the Flyers were desperate. We all assumed Vokoun would either get overpaid by Florida, or go for half as much as Bryzgalov on the market.
Why do I say that? Basic market economics. If you have 2 products, each equally valuable, with a market for both, you’re going to have competition amongst those products and the sellers. Vokoun was competing against himself here, and it hurt him.
If you have 2 products, and only two people shopping for those products, with a guarantee that they will each buy 1, you don’t have a market! You have a “which one do you want?” “I don’t care, what about you?” The shoppers are fighting for the best deal, unless they are Paul Holmgren. Then they grab the first one and say “Fifty One Million! I pick this one and I will pay $51 million!”
To which the second shopper says “Fine, I’ll take the exact replica for $1.5 million.”
Basic logic.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your logic also states that only two teams were in the sweepstakes. We can’t really confirm that since Bryz never hit the market.
Samesis
But it’s a fairly logical assumption. And it’s certainly not worth $4.1+mil in risk avoidance.
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like I said below. Home played it safe by getting a guy before he hit the open market and got in a bidding war. Lets face it, Vokoun most likely had higher offers on the table, but went to the caps because, well, I guess he figures he only has a little left in the tank and wants to be on a team that has a shot at winning this year.
Samesis
Don’t you think he would have accepted a similar deal to sign with PHI? Even if the Caps and PHI get into a bidding war, it’s still going to be a lot cheaper than Bryz.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Yes, but at the same time, a week ago, would you have though Vokoun would sign for $1.5 mill?
Samesis
That’s not the point. The point is that Holmgren got into a bidding war against himself. He’d have paid less money if he brought more suitors into the equation.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
And none of that really changes the point here.
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The point is, Bryz got what his value is worth, and Vokoun got WAY LESS of what his value is worth.
Samesis
If I was Vokoun I’d fire my agent immediately. No way they couldn’t have closed that gap.
@philatticus on Twitter
Why do you assume that? If the Caps said they weren’t paying more than 1.5 no matter what then he needs another bidder to increase the price. Vokoun limited the potential pool to SCF contenders, so it didn’t matter what COL was offering. I’m curious why DET and CHI weren’t involved.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Because it’s so under value (at least relative to Bryz) that it looks preposterous. Even if it meant an extra 500K, that’d still look a bit better than that.
@philatticus on Twitter
So Vokoun should fire his agent because you don’t like his contract.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
No, Vokoun should fire his agent b/c his contract is an absolutely steal. Washington gave up nothing, no risk, etc., and saddled Vokoun with it all.
But again, this all changes if Bryz hits the market. And it’s really just opinion.
@philatticus on Twitter
No, Vokoun should fire his agent b/c his contract is an absolutely steal.
I don’t think he should fire his agent. I think it’s also a safe assumption to say Colorado offered Vokoun a shit ton of money before they got Varlamov. Same with Florida. Vokoun had offers from other teams, but he chose to go to a contender and not a lottery team.
But again, this all changes if Bryz hits the market.
This is exactly the point we’re arguing.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, essentially he gave up $$$ for to be in a certain position. Still though, that number is quite a shock, especially last year with the Leighton and even Ellis deals.
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haha, it’s absolutely a shock.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Not many people, no. I expressed favor for it, but I was more of a Mason fan myself.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll admit to having him on my list with Mason and Smith. Wow, wrong.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad we can both admit to wanting Mason and Ellis, but Smith? Ew!
Still, I wanted Mason and Ellis over Leighton. Didn’t want any of them long-term. Consolation prize?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
There shouldn’t be a consolation prize if we can’t get Leighton out of our system. We don’t deserve one.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I admit my flaws freely … mostly because I’m sure SOMEONE here will go look up my posts about it if I was less than honest.
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by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Since we’re throwing around economic jargon, Vokoun is facing a monopsony market. Either that or he perceived it that way, and didnt want to end up like Nabokov did last year, so he took less many to ensure himself a spot.
Keep in mind that, for a player, the cost of “still standing when the music stops” is greater than just the one year of foregone salary. If Vokoun were unable to find a home, it’d be harder for him to find one in the future, as well.
It was a self-induced monopsony, though – there were theoretical other buyers, but Vokoun eliminated them by deciding only to sell his services to a contender in the NHL, which eliminated European teams and non-contending NHL teams.
(that’s just meant to be a clarification and expansion on your point, not a contradiction or argument, BTW)
Bob.
So if they Flyers wait, let the market decide, offer Vokoun a deal for 3 M, what does Bryz get? Is it still 5.6M a year?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Well, thats the risk/reward of waiting. What happens if we wait, and Vokoun signs for $4.5 mill, does Bryz still sign for $5.6, or does it go higher?
Samesis
No IMO, because they’re worth about the same as far as I’m concerned.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, why I say the risk avoidance wasn’t worth what they paid for it. And if the Fly’s signed Vokun for 2 years for $4.5, aren’t they still coming out with a better value to a hypothetical inflated deal with Bryz at say $6mil for 9 years?
Either way, the Flyers did themselves, check that, Snider, did his team a disservice.
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And it’s certainly not worth $4.1+mil in risk avoidance.
And to quote you, “we really can’t confirm” that Vokoun had any offers and for any more. But even if he did, a bidding war wouldn’t have increased the deal by $4.1mil. And also, Bryz would be out there as well, so why have a bidding war just over Vokoun when you have Bryz right next to him.
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Yes, Bryzgalov had the best even strength save percentage of the bunch. Yes, he’s younger than Vokoun.
For one year. Over their careers, Vokoun is better. Over the past three years, Vokoun is better. Bryzgalov had a career year at age 31 and cashed in for $51 million.
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I have a baseball analogy
The Flyers just signed someone who is either C.C. Sabathia (hopefully) or A.J. Burnett (maybe). For a lot of years. Meanwhile, a 35 year old Roy Halladay just signed a one year contract with Atlanta.
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That’s not bad at all.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Please don’t be Burnett. Please don’t be Burnett. Please don’t be Burnett.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
This. While CC was expensive, and got top dollar, at least he’s done his job.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Even if he is a fatty boombalatty. And gives up multiple HR’s in the WS. To Chase Utley. :-)
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I’m just saying that it’s weird to resort to that. But point taken.
I’m fine with the Phillies AAA pitching staff.
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just playful banter my friend. I have love for the phils and I understand that everyone hates the Yankees. Just havin some fun with it.
Say hi to the bad guy.
Yankees/Flyers/Gunners
I hear ya. My dad is a Yankees fan, grew up in Brooklyn. The worst moment of my life was him reveling in that WS win. The best moment of my life was Ruben Amaro stealing Cliff Lee.
It happens.
@philatticus on Twitter
That was not my point. My point is that Captain Cheeseburger is fat. Fat, fat, fat.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I’d say Vokoun is more to the likes of Tim Hudson. And Bryz could be Sabathia, could be Carlos Zambrano.
"I'd like to be remembered by Flyers fans as a player who played through injuries, and left it all on the ice." -CaptainMRichie18
Or Barry Zito
"The characters in this picture are all fictitious. Anyone resembling them is better off dead
Karate' Jerry..... Karate'
Semper Fi...
Zito kills the Phillies.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I don’t follow.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Hudson = steady, not overwhelming starting pitcher who will give you amazing stuff, but on occasion. CC = consistently very good/great, while Zambrano will give you one great start and 8 terrible ones, but when he was signed, everyone thought he was going to be a top 5 SP.
That help? Hudson is also underrated, on an annual basis too.
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I don’t think you’re far off on Hudson, but I’m (nit pick alert) having trouble equating a ground ball pitcher with a guy who routinely pitches shutouts (Vokoun) with very little defense.
But… That’s a fantasy analysis, which is probably not necessary.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but I mean, we can always use WAR, which is probably my favorite semi-advanced stat in the world to see how they shake out (I would if I wasn’t doing bar-prep right now).
Of course, everyone knows the king of WAR, right?
For Hudson though, what always struck me was (1) he’s always unheralded, and (2) he always does a fantastic job. Like Vokoun to outsiders.
@philatticus on Twitter
For pitchers, I’m an xFIP fan.
I don’t deny that Hudson is good, I just think Vokoun is more like Verlander than Hudson. He never gets the attention he deserves, but those who really understand the position love him. Maybe he benefits from his home turf, but his teams aren’t always that good, especially not defensively. And yet, they both go out there and give their team a chance to win every night.
The problem is that Verlander has a lot less off-nights than Vokoun, but, eh. Analogies are fun.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hudson also benefits from a tremendous amout of luck in BABIP, like tonight for fucking instance.
Verlander is a better comparison to Vokoun, you are right.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Aw, thanks for liking my Verlander analogy!
I don’t know if this is right or not, but I thought Hudson was one of those pitchers who consistently had a lower BABIP than others. Yes? No?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. He is the beneficiary of lots of luck. Tonight the O’s were hitting lots of balls very, very hard off of him (yes, that’s what she said), but they either went right to fielders or caught just at the warning track. Frustrating to say the least.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
haha, I trust you.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This is not to say that he isn’t a good pitcher, he is. It’s just that he will regress at some point. And if there’s a just God, it will be sometime soon. /i hate the braves with the white hot intensity of 1000 suns
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
No writeup on the Brad Richards deal?
by The Fish on Jul 2, 2011 8:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
could just reprint any “rangers overpaid” story we’ve ever read, haha
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Well this sucks!
Part of me wants to complain, the other half is saying can’t cry over spilled milk.
-bob
by Rrainone on Jul 2, 2011 8:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think we can all agree that none of us would have thought he would sign this cheap. Homer played it safe and still lost.
Samesis
Did he play it safe? Or did he go all in on the first hand he was dealt? Because from where I sit, Snider literally forced Homer’s hand, and he had no choice either way. If Homer had any stones or self respect he would have told Snider to sit tight and let July 1 hit and then play the game then. That, was playing it safe. On July 1 he had options, limited as they were but they were there. When he traded for Bryz he had no option, he had no leverage. He had to overpay and he did, because his owner has a hard on for overspending.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
by EREX21 on Jul 2, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
This, so much this. You may have said at least one kitten tonight Ed.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
More of a dog person myself but the Utleys and the PSCPA thank you.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Hey, I’m just kicking blindly. My Snider rage knows no bounds.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I see this situation as competing cliches. It’s ‘he who hesitates is lost’ vs ‘look before you leap’ (or ‘good things come to those who wait’), and the Flyers FO who always seem to act like they exist in a vacuum, chose the wrong cliche.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 2, 2011 8:32 PM EDT reply actions
Very depressing Travis. Thanks.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 8:44 PM EDT reply actions
This does suck, but Im still happy at having Bryzgalov. In my head Im thinking Bryzgalov is going to be ‘this years Tim Thomas good’ but for 9 years!
E-A-G-L-E-S, EAGLES!!
#2 Flyers fan in England behind Orange and Black Forever (Damn him and his Americanness)
Powe!!!, right in the kisser!
I don’t think I will ever forgive Homer and Snider for this one. I honestly don’t think this team will win a cup again with Snider as an owner. Call it an overreaction if you want but I don’t think an owner who overreacts and throws money around like it doesn’t matter can not win a cup. Maybe, if he had a GM who understood cap management a little better that GM might be able to cover it up a bit, but as bad as Homer can be, Snider writes the checks, Snider makes the demands, and Homer just get’s it done for him.
I’ll continue to root for this team because I don’t have any other choice but I am going to temper my expectations. Hopefully Bryzgalov retires in 4 years and we can get out from under that contract.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Once in a while, ownership like that gets it right. I mean, the Blueshirts DID win a Cup in the last decade … Oh, wait.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Bryzgalov
Not sure what to say. I’d have used Bob, signed someone to be backup, spent his money on Stamkos.
But hey, I guess a marginal upgrade in net is worth it. Seriously, it was all the freaking out over soft goals instead of pointing out our defense that got us Bryzgalov.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
correct me if I'm wrong...
But isn’t timmy thomas cap hit over 5m? I’m not trying to say bryz is as good but it really isn’t that far from plausible is it?
Mainly it just pisses me off when people say that because we have an expensive goalie that its impossible to build a cup contender. So ridiculously stupid and blown out of porportion in my opinion.
I guess the writers need to find something to bitch about though, its their job and all.
by kckrebs on Jul 2, 2011 9:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It has nothing to do with having an expensive goalie, it’s about overpaying a goalie. With a cap, you need to keep cost down wherever you can, and if the Flyers had waited, a lot of people think they could have gotten Vokoun, who has similar #s, for a lower cost. Let’s say they got into a bidding war that started at 1.5m, and had to go to 3.5m to get him. You still saved 2m on your goalie, and that goes into a better player somewhere else.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Saving $$$ for better players
Everyone is mad about the money Homer spent on the Bryz, but at the same time, who should he have spent that money on? I think everyone agrees that the non-goalie UFAs that were signed were way over-paid.
I know nobody here wants to believe it, but Carter & Richards were not traded so they could sign Bryz. Seriously, get it out of your heads. Between the cap raise and trading Versteeg (which they did anyway) they would have had enough to pay for their goalie without trading Carter & Richards.
That said, who would you have liked Homer to over-pay rather than a goalie?
You didn’t answer my question, you asked a completely different question? Like I said, Carter & Richards were not traded to make cap space to sign the goalie.
With Simmonds’ new contract (I’m guessing it will be slightly under $2M) the Flyers should still have about $2M in cap space. That gives them wiggle room. If they have the space to do make a deal/trade if needed, why does anyone care how much they over paid for a goalie? The only reason you should care is if you would rather see the money spent on another player. Who would that player be?
Someone who becomes a free agent sometime in the next nine years.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jul 3, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they have the space to do make a deal/trade if needed, why does anyone care how much they over paid for a goalie? The only reason you should care is if you would rather see the money spent on another player.
A) You can easily care about overpayments without needing to spend that money elsewhere. Overpayments are a problem period.
B) Even if you don’t agree that an inherently bad deal (hence overpayment) is bad on its own, you don’t have to single out a player to spend that money on this year. JVR, Carle, Coburn, Voracek, and more are going to be FA next year.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
A) The didn’t over spend, they paid market value. Could they have waited and possibly saved money? Probably, but they did pay market value. (and I know I said they over paid in my question, but that was just because it was the term that ebveryone was using)
B) Jagr is getting JVR’s money. Next summer you let a 40 year old Jagr walk away, give his $3.3M to JVR and use the current $2.2M to give Coburn & Carle their raise. Personally, if they wanted more than a million more than they are making now I’d let them walk. I don’t think they are worth more than that. Lappy will also be off the books next year. Use his money to give Voracek his raise. Put a cheap Phantom on the RW where Jagr was for one season. After that, a ton of cap space opens up when Shelley, Hartnell, and Timonen come off the books.
A) The didn’t over spend, they paid market value.
This is just wrong. The highest contract for a UFA goalie this year was 2 years, $4 million. The highest contract signed by any goalie, at any point this season, was 4 years, $15.2 million.
They didn’t pay market value. They paid triple the market value.
After that, a ton of cap space opens up when Shelley, Hartnell, and Timonen come off the books.
The Flyers have $19 million to sign 8 players next summer. You just spent $8.8 mil of that on Coburn and Carle. Down to $10.2 million for 6 players. Then, you spent $3.3 million on JVR (which is probably a bit low, but we’re ignoring a cap increase for now), so you’re down to $6.9 million for 5 players.
You still have to sign Voracek and Simmonds, so just say they stay the same and only cost $4 million combined. That’s $2.9 million for 3 players. Is that doable? Sure. But you once again either have to use in-house players (who aren’t very good) or trade away contracts so you can improve your club.
Oh, and you’re relying on a 38 year old Pronger and a 35 year old Briere.
I’d much rather have money to burn next year than to once again be short on cap space.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I know nobody here wants to believe it, but Carter & Richards were not traded so they could sign Bryz.
No, they weren’t. But if Snider didn’t demand a goalie, would they still have been the two to go? I don’t think so.
We can all agree that the Flyers could have kept Carter and Richards while signing Bryzgalov. What we won’t agree on is that the Flyers would have traded Carter and Richards even if they signed Vokoun for $1.5 million.
That said, who would you have liked Homer to over-pay rather than a goalie?
If you remove the “over-pay” and simply ask where that money should have gone:
Keith Yandle
Drew Doughty
Brooks Laich
Semyon Varlamov
And others I can’t think of right now.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
If you sign RFAs, you are more than likely still over paying between the contract plus the draft picks you will be losing.
Brooks Laich got the same over-priced contract that Leino got.
So you would rather have paid the hefty price the Avs paid to get Varlamov plus pay the contract he got?
Don’t forget that the Flyers drastically overpaid for Bryz and gave up a 3rd round pick to do it.
If I’m getting that third round pick back, I’d gladly send Versteeg or Hartnell + that 3rd for an RFA.
And even if they are overpayments, Varlamov cost a 1st round pick but $2.8 million less for 7 less years.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t like Laich’s contract when he signed it, but I think he deserves 4.5 much more than Leino or Cole do. If those guys are 4.5 million dollar players, then I’m fine with Laich getting that much. He at least can play D and doesn’t need to be sheltered.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Never said they were.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 3, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s about the team they had here before they went out and traded for Bryz. It’s not that building a team around a goalie can’t be competitive, it’s that the Flyers had an extremely competitive roster and blew it up to sign Bryz to a 9 year deal. It’s about what you have + plus what you need. There weren’t a lot of teams in the market for a big name goalie, and there were two elite ones out there, plus several other serviceable options if you want to run a tandem with Bob. Snider’s impatience cost the Flyers a better roster on paper for this year. It’s fairly simple.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Well I like the new team. Maybe I’m the only one I guess but I like the new dirtection. Both richie and carts thought they had the next 10 years to prove anything. I mean the year before they made it to the cup richie had 20 more points than the 2 years after. And I also think the 2 being butt buddies had a lot to do with why they both ended up getting moved. Because both of them didn’t need to get moved but homer knew if 1 went the other should probly too. Richie even expressed his displeasure with the carter deal, and that was while he was still a flyer.
The time was now for changes, and homer knew it. Wasn’t expecting all this action but I’m glad we have an organization that will pull the trigger. Whether he pulled it too soon to me doesn’t matter. Its just speculation based on hindsight. Ever heard that saying hindsight is 20/20?
by kckrebs on Jul 2, 2011 9:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, you’r totally right. I mean Richie and Carter were still performing at elite 2 way forward levels, but they just felt so stale and their butt buddy attitudes totally get this team from doing anything positive, so best to move them.
And what exactly is speculation based on hindsight. You saw the market last year for goalies, you have a good idea of what teams are in the market for goalies, and you know who the free agents are. It’s not hind sight, it’s called gathering information. To pay even $2mil more in cap space to avoid any risk is far too much, and I have certainly been saying this since last off season, so it’s not my hindsight.nSnider wanted what he wanted, that’s fine. I clearly disagree, and I’m not 100% certain Homer agreed either.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
A) Tim Thomas’ cap hit is $5 exactly.
B) No goalie who got $5.6 million or more last year made it out of the first round of the playoffs.
C) It’s about overpaying in the current market, not about how the cap hit compares to a guy who signed his deal three years ago.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll admit three things:
A) The Caps are, for once, a legit contender
B) Got a GREAT deal with Vokoun
C) Vokoun’s agent should get fired…….or hung. I’m sure he’s losing clients faster then the Islanders lose games.
Samesis
For once a legit contender!? Wtf have you been watching the last couple years? They’ve been one of the more dominant regular season teams in the whole league? Did they fall apart at playoffs? Absolutely, but so did the flyers last year..
by kckrebs on Jul 2, 2011 9:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They had no real D the past few years. Now, they keep the explosive offense and vastly improve the D and G this year. I think this is the first time that they will actually be good in the playoffs, in fact, their probably my favorite right now.
Samesis
Vastly improved at goalie eh? Opinions will be opinions…
by kckrebs on Jul 2, 2011 9:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No real D? Two years they were top5 in possession and last two the top6 heading into April has been very solid.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 2, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Warning: JpH strongly believes in the stereotypes that are perpetuated by the mainstream media.
The Caps and Sharks are chokers, regardless of anything you say.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the Caps are chokers, I just didn’t think they had what it took to win. I think the caps getting bounced early to bad teams proves my points more then yours.
Cant explain the Sharks, just unlucky. I don’t believe in “choking”
Samesis
You believe in a team “not having what it takes to win” but you don’t believe in “choking?” The only way a team can “not have what it takes to win” is if that team isn’t very good. And the Capitals have been very good for the past several years.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Ehh, I just never feared the Caps in the playoffs before. I do now, but I always knew how to exploit them.
Samesis
You didn’t tell the Rangers how to exploit them.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
You should coach.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
To help with basic Timeonice functions.
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 2, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Russian names
On the bright side, our starting goaltender’s last name means “Spray” in Russian. Even better, our backup goaltender’s last name means “Beaver.” Seriously. “Mr. Spray” and “Mr. Beaver.”
Ok, that doesn’t make up for how insanely stupid this offseason has been, but you know, just trying to help.
I wish all the haters would just jump ship and become caps fans. We don’t need ya’ll!!
by kckrebs on Jul 2, 2011 9:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mr internet tough guy? Hahaha now that’s some funny shit! Why because I said I wish the haters would become caps fans? That’s being tough!? Hahahahha the internets is so funny sometimes!
by kckrebs on Jul 2, 2011 10:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I didn’t say I’d quit watching or rooting for them. I just said that I think they’re a significantly worse team after these moves. You can feel free to disagree with me. We’ll just have to see who’s right in a few months.
Also, those are really their names in Russian. That’s not a joke. “Bryzga” means “spray” in Russian, and “bobr” means “beaver.” Their last names are derived from those words.
by Cackalacky Mike on Jul 2, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Russian. It’s a crazy language.
Thank god I’ll be able to understand some after this fall.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
It’s a fun language. The first couple weeks are a bear, as you try to cope with the alphabet and some unfamiliar structures. Just don’t get stressed out early on. Unlike English or German, where it’s easy to pick up the first few bits, but harder to do anything more advanced, Russian is very hard in the early stages, but gets easier as you go along.
For the record, I was doing my damnedest to find a graphic of a beaver in goaltending pads to print on an orange shirt and wear to a home game. That would have been a major victory for Flyers fashion. Sadly, no dice.
by Cackalacky Mike on Jul 3, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha, I know the majority of the alphabet already. Took Ancient Greek for a semester.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I minored in Russian! I love the language, frankly. And the great thing is you won’t confuse it with any other language you’ve studied. LOL.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Oi…I dropped out of Ancient Greek.
I did survive Ancient Hebrew, but barely. And I don’t think I remember any of it.
Bob.
My professor was awesome. He was that little adorable old man that you just want to hug.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I might have survived Greek, but I started it the same semester as Hebrew. My Hebrew professor was from rural Alabama and had a stutter. How could I drop that class?
Bob.
I almost took Hebrew but my school dropped the class because of low registration.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I was in the first Hebrew class at my school. We had somewhere between 12 and 15 students, but that was enough – my upper-level French courses only had 6 students.
Bob.
Nice to see everyone studying the old languages – I do Latin and Ancient Greek myself, always wanted to learn Hebrew, and the Cyrillic alphabet of Russian always appealed to me because it is based on Ancient Greek with a few different characters.
Strong linguists here. :) (Yes, I’ll avoid the “cunning” pun… ;-)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I have a theology degree (although I haven’t done anything with it), and Greek and Hebrew are foundation languages for that field of study.
Bob.
Well, those are the languages you need for that degree. It always amazes me when people think the KJV of the Bible is the original Bible and not just the original English translation of the Bible.
Anyway, I’ll be teaching Greek in the Fall for the first time in about 15 years. I’m just happy to have students who still want to learn it. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
just being nitpicky
Its not really even the original English translation.
First printed by the King’s Printer, Robert Barker,45 this was the third such official translation into English; the first having been the Great Bible commissioned by the Church of England in the reign of King Henry VIII, and the second having been the Bishop’s Bible of 1568.[wikipedia
I do sometimes wonder how much gets lost in that translation. I knew some French, Latin, and German in my day – but never enough to read a Bible translation and look for nuances.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 4, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
KJV is the best word for word translation, FWIW.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 4, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
…sorry, but no. Just no. The manuscripts available now are older and more complete than what was available in 1611, with quite literally thousands more manuscripts available. It’s also not modern English, which means you’re translating from Middle English to Modern English.
That said, it is a very poetic and traditional translation, but it’s not the best word for word translation if you want to understand the meaning of the original Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek. If you want a word-for-word translation, you want either an English Standard Version (ESV), New American Standard Bible (NASB), or New Revised Standard Version (NRSV).
Bob.
That’s in Greek.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Correct.
It’s a Greek translation of the Hebrew original. The name comes from the Latin word for “seventy” (septuaginta) – seventy scholars, according to legend, went away to translate the Bible from Hebrew into Greek. When the all came back they miraculously had the exact same translation. (The actual story is a bit less miraculous, but, still, it’s a good story – the Wikipedia entry is good on it.)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 5, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
NASB is pretty close in a word-for-word sense but that believe it or not can confuse the original meaning. RSV is probably best from a “sense of what the original authors meant”.
I’d disagree with NRSV. Don’t know ESV.
But we’re wildly OT. We have to go to “Broad Street Hermeneutics” now.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
On paper they are worse, but I think they are better for the losses. Honestly, I think the idea of have “3 scoring lines” made them think that they didn’t need to apply themselves to the fullest.
Samesis
I’ve heard this from a lot of people. I just don’t buy the logic. My opinion on last year’s team is that they ran out of gas in mid-January after a very stressful ‘10 postseason (and lead up to the postseason) and slamming the foot on the accelerator right out of the gate in ’10-’11. They just didn’t seem to have anything left in the tank for the latter part of the season and the playoffs. The unfortunate string of injuries really didn’t help.
Still, losing to the eventual Cup champion in the second round has been made out by some people to be some sort of devastating failure. It’s really, really hard to go to the SCF two years in a row, especially with a player like Prongs stuck in the press box. Most teams have trouble pulling off that kind of feat. Patience would have been a much better virtue with this particular group of players. Let them lick their wounds, smart over being swept by Boston, and come into the year refreshed and ready to give it another shot. Instead, Homer and Snider overreacted to the situation and—at least in my opinion—have produced a team that has less of a chance of hoisting the Cup. If they were one of the top 3 Eastern Conference teams before the trade, I think they’re probably only a top 7 or 8 team now.
by Cackalacky Mike on Jul 3, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Still, losing to the eventual Cup champion in the second round has been made out by some people to be some sort of devastating failure.
Like Ed Snider and WIP?
:)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Game 1 Lavvy lost us (Briere against Chara?) and Game 2 we could have won. Even Vancouver couldn’t top Boston in Boston. We could have been 2-2 after four games and after that who knows what would have happened. We had home ice for Game 7.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I absolutely agree. I’ve said almost the exact same thing a dozen times while trying to explain to people why the goaltending isn’t why the Flyers lost.
The team played like shit in three of the four games, and got beat on an unlucky bounce in the fourth.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep my point is that it’s a bit like tennis. You hold your serve and then try to break the other person’s serve. You hold your home games and try to get an away win, or in the Flyers case, you just needed to hold your home games. If the Flyers had a bit more luck in Game 2, they may have held Game 5 and then at worst they lose the series 4-2 and maybe Ed Snider doesn’t blow up the team.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
So very true.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Game 1 Lavvy lost us (Briere against Chara?) and Game 2 we could have won. Even Vancouver couldn’t top Boston in Boston. We could have been 2-2 after four games and after that who knows what would have happened. We had home ice for Game 7.
Right on the money.
The injuries to the team that we were unaware of at the time didn’t help either, but what you said is spot on.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
So I’m not the only poster in SB Nation who talks about the meanings of player last names. Bob being a Beaver. So that means that Yustin Bobrovsky would be the Russian equivalent of Justin Bieber, as Bieber is German for beaver.
Vokoun, meanwhile, is the Czech word for “perch” as in the type of fish.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
This, I think, explains a lot about Vokoun. And Bob’s haircut last year.
by Cackalacky Mike on Jul 5, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
We need some positivity here. Everything, even all the signings, are full of negativity. Its like all the commenters are gravediggers.
Samesis
The team will still be competitive this year. The trades (Carter and Richards) I think will be wins in the future, but the way Snider and the Flyers have gone about this offseason has been incredibly frustrating. And since the season doesn’t start for a while yet, I need to voice my frustration.
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Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I still hold that we are the best team in the Atlantic. I think Wash has taken over the East, but we are still with them and Boston. I still think we can make the ECF’s with the team(plus Simmonds) we have now.
Samesis
How are the Pens not a better team?
The Flyers got a little worse by losing it’s two best players.
The Pens, the team that tied the Flyers in points last year, they get their two best players and arguably the best player in the world back.
The Flyers aren’t the class of their division, not by a long shot. But they could, could be a playoff team.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
they could, could be a playoff team
Ok lets calm down here. Not only do we have a top 5 goalie, we still keep our D together, and we still have very good offensive unit.
he Pens, the team that tied the Flyers in points last year
You mean the team that went to what, 26 OT’s last year? They won’t get lucky like that again.
Samesis
Add in Crosby and Malkin and I doubt they need to go to 26 OT’s.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Truth spoken on the Pens. Given that Bylsma kept them in contention with both Malkin and Crosby out. Essentially, the Pens seemed to live by playing for the tie and winning in the shootout due to Fleury’s saves. (Dislike the Pens a great deal and root for anyone over them.)
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
I mean look the Flyers blew up a part of the team that didn’t need to be blown up. I think that is why people are angry and rightfully so. Now they are a catch 22 as a team with a good future and a murky present because the forwards are young and need to develop and fill in some big shoes, and the defense/goaltender is built to win now. Sure they are or can be a playoff team but not cup contenders.
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Semper Fi...
I think, if Pronger and Kimmo stays relatively healthy, we are just as good as Boston was last year. In fact, we look A LOT like what Boston did this time last season.
Samesis
I think a comparison to Boston isn’t particularly confidence-inspiring to many commenters here.
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by red army line on Jul 2, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not disagreeing, but if we need Bryz to play like Thomas that’s a steep bet.
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Being compared to a team that was 12-9 in the playoffs against teams not named the Philadelphai Flyers is a good thing?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Being compared to a team that was 16-9 in the playoffs is a good thing.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know. Boston was a team that was one fluke shot away from being eliminated in several rounds.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
You have a point.
Montreal nearly scored in OT in game 7 before the Bruins did. The entire Eastern Conference playoffs would have been different, if that had happened.
Really, that phenomenon occurs in many post-seasons, i.e., the Cup winner gets just enough breaks in earlier rounds to advance. Of course, some just dominate from start to finish (e.g., most of the Oilers Cup-winning seasons, but certainly not ’87). A combination of high-quality play and good fortune leads to the Cup.
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by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a huge problem with this since Boston went 4-3 against every team not named the Flyers. They needed OT to get out of the first round. They only won the East by winning 1-0 on a late third-period goal.
And they were only able to barely make it out of each round despite having a goaltender put up the best season in the last 13 years. The team as a whole was not that great. In other words, they needed a lot of luck. Basically, they were the SF Giants.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
When your goalie stops 94.7% of all ESS, it works.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
And Vancouver could have been out of the first round against Chicago as well. Against Nashville they won each game by a single goal (excluding empty netters). They went 11-9 in the playoffs against any team not named San Jose. So what of that Vancouver team?
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Much, much stronger series of opponents, I’d say.
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by red army line on Jul 2, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You could probably say Philadelphia were Boston’s strongest opponent as they tried to come out of the East, given that we were top of the conference for much of the season and ended up going into the playoffs at second seed. Boston went 4-0 against Philadelphia, shouldn’t that count for something rather than Geoff excluding it from Boston’s record?
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess. To be honest I wouldn’t start my “Boston wasn’t all that great” argument with a discussion of their playoff record.
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by red army line on Jul 2, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Two things:
1) I agree that #2 seed in the East should count for something, but apparently Ed Snider disagrees; and
2) I’m purely talking about luck in winning Game 7s. The Bruins barely beat every team they played, except the Flyers, who they destroyed. And they could only barely beat them even while having a goalie give the best season any goalie has given in the last 13 years.
In other words: The Bruins won because of luck and an unsustainable record-setting season from their goalie. That’s not something you can plan for or expect, let alone model.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
This is a good point. But I’m also not advocating for the Flyers to be built like Vancouver, so showing how similar they are just reinforces that NHL teams shouldn’t be built like that.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And yet in prior years, when you could say they had a better team (definitely better D), they had brutal luck to not make it to the SCF. Hopefully it’s a sign that luck evens out… someday…
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Definitely. I just hate the “Build a team like the Bruins!” mantra. Three Game 7 victories isn’t exactly proof that the strategy works.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but that’s how it always is. A year ago “build like Chicago!” would have been the claim, but that obviously isn’t a long term sustainable strategy. There are a lot of ways to win, no need to copy cat the team that does it every year. Just do your best to have the most talent on the best-value contracts you can get. Things should work out from there.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I still think the “build like Detroit!” is the best way to go. I also like what L.A. is doing a lot.
But:
Just do your best to have the most talent on the best-value contracts you can get.
Exactly. 100% agreed.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, DET is my favorite long term model, but their drafting isn’t exactly helping them keep it going right now.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Having the best defenseman and, arguably, the two best defensive forwards is a good model, but tough to follow. I’m liking the LA model more and more—it doesn’t require trading tons of draft picks or icing generational talents.
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by red army line on Jul 3, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess that depends on how you view Doughty. And without even a playoff series victory isn’t the “LAK model” a little overrated? How exactly is it different from the other “build through the draft” models?
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Oh, right (facepalm). Forgot about Doughty.
Ehh, I like their roster composition and their “cupboard” is pretty stocked with really major contribution from only one lotto pick. Caps/Pens have three, Hawks two, FLA should have several, COL at least two.
San Jose has done a pretty good job, come to think of it. There’s the one constant there in Marleau, but a nice mix of trades, FA signings, and drafting to stay competitive.
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by red army line on Jul 3, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Giroux? But it’s tough for him to be the Bergeron and Krejci at the same time.
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by red army line on Jul 3, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually I am thinking the Pens spent their load keeping last season from turning into a train wreck – this season may be a wash for them, regardless of getting everyone healthy or not.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW
Sam Carchidi just said that there’s no question Bryz is way better than Vokoun on Twitter. WTF?
@philatticus on Twitter
Am I the only one that’s not surprised by this?
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s Carchidi. You can’t take anything he says seriously half the time. He’s just a hair better than Panotch.
Hope you’re following Dave Isaac and Anthony SanFillipo.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
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I’d contend that he’s a few hairs below Panotch. At least Panotch likes hockey….
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If I remember correctly, Sam Carchidi took a vacation last July 1st and didn’t even bother to cover free agent frenzy day. Anyone else remember this?
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Panotch did too. I just remember being on twitter (at work lol) and a couple people (beatwriters) peacing out.
I’ll be honest, I don’t even remember when the DN guy started. Such a shame.
@philatticus on Twitter
No, I think Timmy was just on a plane going somewhere, but Sam was out of the country or something.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh.
Still, if you’re sole job is to cover a team, you’d probably want to schedule shit around one of the biggest days of the year. You know, like free agency. Especially when you’ve got an owner like Snider…
@philatticus on Twitter
This time, though, he had a family wedding I believe. Unfortunately, not all family will care about scheduling their wedding around Timmy’s major summer day.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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Yeah, but somethings you don’t get to pick the date. He’s actually at a family wedding this year as well.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
What's that?
TOO SLOW.
:P
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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Oh hey, Travis…
"We didn't do it the easy way. We took the hard way to do it. But we are part of history now."
But Travis also has people like Geoff to cover him.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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hahaha ugh.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, Carchidi was in Ocean City. There was a nice long article about it last year.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Did he cut off contact? Last I checked, Ocean City had a radio tower/cable/internet.
@philatticus on Twitter
Just read the article, it’s easier.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I like that he stops in and chats occasionally.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Big +. I also love PhillySportsDaily, b/c they all have a hunger about them. Not going to lie, I miss Whyno.
@philatticus on Twitter
Whyno is still awesome. And he even made a special @SWhynoPhilly account so we could still follow him without the Caps stuff if we wanted.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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And he follows me on Twitter. :P
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
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Hahaha, I completely forgot about that comment.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
No. Sam was at the Jersey Shore.
The reason I know this is that he said so in his column.
Now, it’s one thing to play hooky during exams. It is another thing to tweet about it.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Yeah, Carchidi has missed two straight July 1’s. This time he blamed a wedding.
I’m curious to see what comes up next year to prevent him from covering what’s arguably the most important day of the season. Tickets to the Phillies game? Driving to Ohio to get the really good fireworks? Spa appointment?
Wedding?
That was Panotch this year.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
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I don’t even use his name I just call him the guy from the Inqy….
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Karate' Jerry..... Karate'
Semper Fi...
Sometimes I wonder if Carchidi’s schtick is to just say stupid and semi controversial things so as to draw attention to himself, his articles and the paper he works for. I honestly can’t believe that a professional can be that stupid.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
That is very possible.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I don’t follow him because of comments like that. He’s made a few the last week that just drive me batty.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
At this rate, I just follow him and Panotch for sheer comedic value.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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I follow Panotch on the off chance he goes nuts and lambasts past/present Flyers.
@philatticus on Twitter
So, same reason, huh?
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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Definition: Bad-assery on skates
That’s why I follow fakepanotch. Who, by the way sounds a bit like JITBA. Realized that reading through a thread from the other day earlier, fakepanotch writes better, but there are some similar things going on there.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
But at least fakepanotch is hilariously funny.
Real Panotch is just sad funny.
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https://twitter.com/broadstbull/status/87343035641380864
@philatticus on Twitter
Oh dear god...
For those who asked, I think signing Bryz was great move. Best goalie they’ve had in a LONG time. #Flyers
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Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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Yeah, just refer to the article I linked above.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Carchidi just say that? I know people hate him, but we do remember Cechmanek coming second in the Vezina, right?
Sure, shitty teammate, shitty playoffs, but the man had TALENT.
@philatticus on Twitter
Yeah, that was just a few seconds ago.
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Technically, I only even know about him by name.
He played before I watched hockey.
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Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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Cechmanek?
I remember the first time he spelled young Bouch, and everyone was like WTF is this. He played like Thomas/Hasek, VERY unorthodox. He’d be beat on crazy bad goals, but then would make jawdropping save after jawdropping save.
@philatticus on Twitter
I started watching in the 2003-2004 season before the lockout.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Ahh yes. I believe Cechmanek was shipped out before (to the Kings, ironically enough).
He quit on his teammates, which is a big, understandable no-no. Still, in terms of talent, he was amazing.
35-15-6, 10 shutouts, 2.01 GAA, .921 save %. Second place in Vezina running IIRC.
@philatticus on Twitter
Yeah plus that team in front of him didn’t make life easy for him as well, if I remember they had blue line issues and scoring issues but then again I was deployed so I could be radically wrong…
"The characters in this picture are all fictitious. Anyone resembling them is better off dead
Karate' Jerry..... Karate'
Semper Fi...
Yeah I don’t remember the defense doing much at all. He was left alone a LOT, and part of his frustration was just that.
But again, this was the period in time where the inmates ran the jailhouse. Everyone hated him, and he was gone. Sorta like Barber. And Hitch. Etc, etc.
The only silver lining (for me) w the Richards/Carter deals is that no longer seems to be the case.
@philatticus on Twitter
Well you were what, 11? Can’t hold that against you too much
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Them’s fighting words.
Started watching in 2003-2004 season with my mom’s then-boyfriend. No one in my family really watched sports except my dad (but that was football).
Kept watching after the lockout ended even though my mom and the boyfriend weren’t together anymore.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
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haha I watched ever since I can remember. I remember the crazy 8’s line, and I was only 3.
Whatever happened to Fedyk?
Samesis
I’ve watched since I was 10/11, right around when we were in the SCF against Detroit. I remember the final game too, (it was a sweep wasn’t?). I was so dejected, especially since my uncle was a Pens fan (Pittsburgh by birth).
Oh the days…
@philatticus on Twitter
/Sighs
Yes, yes it was. I was 14, but I’d been watching since I was really little. My whole middle school was like wallpapered in orange and black in the Spring of 97, and oh the letdown.
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by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
97 doesn’t get but 87 does I was a pup but it was the first time I was really aware of the team and use to go to game with my dad all the time. But 2004 ECF game 7 because if we had been just a little more healthy and beat Tampa we would have won the cup against the Flames, that pisses me off more than anything..
"The characters in this picture are all fictitious. Anyone resembling them is better off dead
Karate' Jerry..... Karate'
Semper Fi...
I remember sitting on the couch with my gf at the time, watching “Silent Bob.” Man, he fucking fooled me.
That and my hatred for Ruslan Fedetenko. He played for TB then, right? Damn those rosy cheeks!
@philatticus on Twitter
Yes he did we traded him to get to #2 and drafted Joni
"The characters in this picture are all fictitious. Anyone resembling them is better off dead
Karate' Jerry..... Karate'
Semper Fi...
Joni was very good, but he had to go kinda like how we had to let Richards go, needed to just start fresh.
Samesis
I can agree with the Richards comparison because 2 ECF and a SCF shows he did more than Joni but I agree he needed a change. But I blame the lack of patience on the front office for his lack of development
"The characters in this picture are all fictitious. Anyone resembling them is better off dead
Karate' Jerry..... Karate'
Semper Fi...
yes he was my bad…
"The characters in this picture are all fictitious. Anyone resembling them is better off dead
Karate' Jerry..... Karate'
Semper Fi...
I have never re-watched that game 7 in 2004. Too painful for me. I loved that team so much, that’s why I like the team we have now, because its starting to look more like that.
Samesis
I went to a couple games early on in the playoffs. I had just gotten into Temple and Drexel and my mom took me down there to visit. I remember being behind Belfour (against the Leafs) and behind Esche against the Devils (when we won either 2-0 or 2-1, I think 2-1).
@philatticus on Twitter
Were you in our section when we (unfairly, and totally immaturely) reminded Ed about his drunkenness? I remember a large man behind us remarking that he didn’t make the save b/c he was plastered, and boy did that chant take.
@philatticus on Twitter
I’ll have to see if I can find my stub. I was wearing my beloved Primeau jersey.
Say what you will about Richie, Primeau is my captain.
@philatticus on Twitter
For me it was Prims, Gags, and Bouch. I have a picture of me between Gags and Bouch at a BC Sports near me. One of the best days ever.
@philatticus on Twitter
I adored him. Don’t know why I put that in past tense, actually, I still do. I’m surprised you don’t know why it was you had that jersey.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
His playoffs were even great. Do you know how many times I’ve posted his numbers on this site when people keep on saying, unwittingly, that the FLyers have had no goaltending since either Parent, Pelle, or Hextall. My goodness it’s been epically frustrating.
Cech was elite, period.
Teaching Travis how to Dougie since 2011.
Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
I know I'll catch crap but
I fully agree. Bryz IS the best goalie they Flyers have had in my life sans Hextall.
Samesis
I think he’s up there, but if Cechmanek didn’t get a bum wrap (and if he didn’t hate his teammates) I think people would remember his brilliance a LOT more fondly.
@philatticus on Twitter
Plenty of us remember his brilliance, unfortunately we also remember he had one too many screws loose.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
He was nuts, don’t get me wrong. But Carchidi was going off of talent, and I think it’s unfair to discount the Cranium Carem (carum?).
Plus, his mask is still the coolest mask ever. Chrome, king tut = WIN.
@philatticus on Twitter
Carom, actually.
And while Cechmanek was exceptionally fast, his positioning was absolutely painful to watch. Half of the reason he needed to be so incredibly quick was that he was out of position on the play. So he made saves that should have been routine look like the second coming of Hasek.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha. Reminds me of the goalie mask Emery had made up of the Flyers greatest goaltenders. Someone made a joke on the 700 level that Cechmanek was on the mask, but you couldn’t see him because he was so far out of position.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
lol that’s pretty good.
BTW, if Emery didn’t get injured, he’d be in that discussion as well. Wasn’t his first game with us a shutout? How quickly we forget…
@philatticus on Twitter
I believe that.
"We didn't do it the easy way. We took the hard way to do it. But we are part of history now."
In retrospect, I definitely didn’t appreciate him enough while he was here.
"We didn't do it the easy way. We took the hard way to do it. But we are part of history now."
But then we would have never met Carter Hutton.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. That was his big weakness; he played so far out and at crazy angles. And I don’t remember his glove being that great, either.
@philatticus on Twitter
Again – his glove was quick, but not very ‘sticky’ … he actually left rebounds from shots that came into the mitt. I do wonder what could have become of him in different circumstances. His natural raw ability was incredible.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. I remember a lot of horrific rebounds glove side. Puckhandling left a lot to be desired too.
But again, some of his saves…holy shit.
If we had a better D, who knows? Or if we had an organization that stuck with coaches and didn’t let players form little Lord of the Flies groups, who knows.
@philatticus on Twitter
See, I don’t necessarily disagree with the “Bryz is awesome” part. It’s the “signing him” part and the crazy contract that I do have an issue with.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
But Bryz contract only looks bad because of how cheap Vokoun signed for today. compared to the B Richards deal, it looks better then that.
Samesis
Anyone think the Richards deal will be challenged due the crazy front loading?
@philatticus on Twitter
No, it meets the requirements, even the Kovy ones.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The new CBA will have to be worked out first. Should be interesting.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m referencing that, mainly. It’ll be interesting to see what the big market owners have to say.
@philatticus on Twitter
I’m filled with some crazy mix of excitement and dread for the negotiations. I’m looking forward to seeing what both sides ask for, but the fact that I’m looking forward to it at all seems somewhat sick and twisted.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear ya. I want to see what happens with the cap, especially the floor. What FL is doing is really sad and pathetic IMHO.
@philatticus on Twitter
They’re not the only one, although it’s the most drastic case. The GM of Carolina also came out and said they have to spend more than they can afford to in order to reach the floor this year. It’s a mess. But even as bad as that is, it’s still only one of many hot button issues.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. That and (what seems like) the drastic inflation of the cap. It’ll be interesting to see what happens. I’m really interested in what happens with the RFA/UFA, with years and all that jazz. Oh and the NMC (or NTC) limitation, with it only being available in X year and onward.
@philatticus on Twitter
The NTC/NMC being limited to group 3 free agents actually makes sense to me. As players gain more experience in the league, they become eligible for things that are almost like priviledges they have to earn (you have to have x amount of experience for waivers, and then so many years for arbitration rights, and then reach a threshold for age or number of years in the league to be a group 3 UFA, etc); that you have to reach a point where you earn the right to have those clauses where you get to control your own destiny. I don’t want them handed out to young guys like candy just because their GM can.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m wondering if we might see more in the way of revenue sharing upcoming, perhaps basing it on the age of the franchise to “promote development of hockey in new areas” or some such, in order to help some of the teams in “lesser” markets maintain budgets.
Bob.
The revenue sharing system is already fairly fascinating to me, but I could see the “growth in new markets” angle being a supplement to the current wording. The fact that teams need to have revenue growth at a rate higher than the league average to qualify for a full share of the player cost redistribution system is a killer. When they base the cap calculation around league-wide revenues, to the point where they force the small markets to need the revenue sharing, some of the conditions they have to meet to qualify to receive the money can be pretty tough to reach.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s a problem with the current system. I could see them revamping it to emphasize growth markets, with a condition that the team has to spend a certain amount of money and/or time on things intended to grow interest in hockey (promoting local youth/school hockey, for example) in order to fully qualify for the benefits. There’s just a disconnect between the established markets and the new markets that isn’t currently being addressed.
Bob.
I totally agree.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course it won’t. It’s about as likely as Bud’s wish coming true and the Flyers hiring me to do their cap management.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Awww, I’m flattered. But you would be a more than capable option, yourself.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it looked bad anyway. Just don’t know what you’re going to get from a guy, can’t see paying him that much.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No, Bryz’s contract looked bad before today.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats a matter of opinion. He’s a top 5 goalie getting paid outside the top 5 highest goalie cap hits, thats how I see it.
Samesis
But no UFA goalie has gotten more than 4 years in the last two years. Of the last 19 goalies to sign a contract – UFA or RFA – nobody got more than $15.2 million guaranteed.
Bryzgalov got double the length and triple the pay. I don’t think comparing to what people paid in 2008 is legit, along the lines of Bud’s housing market analogy.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s also the best goalie to hit the open market(well, to get close enough to hit the open market)
Samesis
And I’d say that was Vokoun. Better career numbers, better numbers over the last three years.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Only downside (if any) would be age, but that doesn’t matter on a short term contract (as much, at least).
@philatticus on Twitter
Age was a problem, yup.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the flaw. Bryz DID NOT hit the open market. One very motivated buyer, one amused Russian speaking seller. Awkward, Williamson-transaction cost economics-opportunism, step right up please.
As I’ve posted above, Homer could have created his own market.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
To the tune of that Song from South Park that made fun of Joseph Smith
Ed Snider wanted a goalie;
DUM DUM DUM DUM DUMMMMMB.
He traded for Ilya Bryzgalov;
DUM DUM DUM DUM DUMMMMMB.
He signed him to a lousy contract;
DUM DUM DUM DUM DUMMMMMB.
Other good goalies went for cheaper;
DUM DUM DUM DUM DUMMMMMB.
Ed Snider had to trade his Captain;
DUM DUM DUM DUM DUMMMMMB.
He also lost his leading scorer;
DUM DUM DUM DUM DUMMMMMB.
His team is no longer contending;
DUM DUM DUM DUM DUMMMMMB.
And that’s why everyone thinks that he’s
DUM DUM DUM DUM DUMMMMMB.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Jul 2, 2011 10:54 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Oh god
And this is why you’re awesome.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
George McPhee was SMART SMART SMART,
SMART SMART SMART SMART SMART.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I laughed my ass off at the episode. Great reference
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because your not the only person to say it, but we didn’t trade Richards because of Bryz. We could have kept him and Bryz. We traded Richards for reasons we will probably never know. I’m just tired of hearing “We traded Richards to afford Bryz”
Samesis
This.
If you want to clear cap room beyond what you got from trading Carter you:
Trade Steeg for picks (which is what we did)
Trade Carle
Rather than:
Trade Richards for Simmonds (say around 2 million) and Schenn (3.1 million) which saves you like 600k on the cap.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Lets really look at who we traded.
I understand that we may have overpaid for Bryz, ok i get that, but homer wanted his goalie and wanted to make sure he got him no questions asked, and he had to pay alittle more to make it happen.
But everyone has to stop saying that we traded away our whole team to sign a goalie!!! its not true, we didnt have to trade carter and richie to fit bryz in, we all know that. we traded those 2 guys because snider and homer felt that we would never win a cup with them. I understand that we were only 2 games away from winning 2 years ago, but richards was not the only one who had points, the team played well as a whole.
So we got rid of Leino, Carter, Richards, Versteeg, carcillo, odonell, powe, and boosh
And we added Bryzgalov, Courturier, Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, jagr, talbot, and Lilja
we really only lost out on 3 good players(1 to free agency) and 5 “dime a dozen” type of players. heck, alot of us wanted carter gone anyways, so we really we only lost out on richie since leino left because of free agency.
I like the choices we made, i think we have made our team alot stronger now, and in the future, and I would make everyone of the trades we did over and over again.
Prove me wrong, Little Albatross
No, we didn’t get the hot 1, 2 or 3 yr. FA albatross, we got the aging 9 yr., lost at sea one
I’m gonna love him, and hug him, and pet him, and call him Ily
The opposition’s goal scoring song
Rime of the Ancient Owner
I feel like I'm posting in the thread of doom
but hopefully those of you actually got a laugh (or not) from the SCH-BSH CheeseGate debacle can have a laugh on us now that the delivery (Carcillo) has finally arrived.
Yesterday was looking pretty good with Montador, Brunette and Mayers all on the roster. Then Bowman dropped the “bomb” on us….
Damn. Payback really is a bitch.
Does he at least come with instructions?
Lead writer for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter. God help us all...
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 2, 2011 11:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Protect Kane from Carcillo’s checking. He can get confused.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
More like protect Kane from Carcillo, period. Those two out on the town together can come to nothing good.
Lead writer for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter. God help us all...
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 2, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hahaha. Awesome. /rubs hands together, evil laughter
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Ya know. I really have no response to that. I’m just smirking and shaking my head. My dad always taught me “He who laughs last…”
Lead writer for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter. God help us all...
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 2, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you just update your sig tonight? I just noticed it
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep I went over to Jewels from the Crown and just felt sad that Richards and Gagne will be linemates in black and purple jerseys rather than orange and black. Richards exemplifies what a Flyer should be in my opinion…and Gagne is Gagne. So decided to update the sig.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
hey – who stole my shirt???
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
On a lighter note.....
The Nucks signed Nolan Baumgartner earlier today.
Seriously…..
Want to know Jeff Carters legacy as a Philadelphia Flyer? Game 6 Stanley Cup Finals with about 2 minutes left. The rest is history.
hahahahahaha
Thanks.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Things would’ve been much better if the Flyers had been patient and had the Kings throw Jonathan Bernier into the Richards’ deal instead of Simmonds and the 2nd rd. pick.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
But then you’re getting a young, somewhat inexperienced guy when you have a young, somewhat inexperienced guy in Bob. Not saying I wouldn’t want that, but I see some validity in Bryz > Bernier.
@philatticus on Twitter
To me, I think Bernier would have been better. It would have made more sense in the “we are a young team, set up for not 11-12, but 12-13.”
Getting younger with Schenn and Voracek weakened the 11-12 squad, while Bryz improved it. To me, those are conflicting interests.
But that’s a logical argument, and nobody would have approved of saying “we are more focused on two years from now than next year.”
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I haven’t seen enough of Bernier to really, really like him over Bob. For me it goes to what you said in that last line…no one would have approved of “screw this, wait 2 years” mentality. I think if you get Bernier, you may signal that approach (fairly or unfairly).
Bryz at least lets you say (to your fanbase) “Hey, let’s win now.”
@philatticus on Twitter
Yup. The argument for Bernier over Bob is simply Bernier’s AHL track record. Put them both together, and you drastically improve your odds. I’m not saying I approve of one or the other this offseason, but that’s the argument.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually was thinking the Flyers would do well going in that direction. Pick up another stud young goalie and hope one of your two works out. And then you’ve got that Joacim Eriksson guy too oh wait…
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Although, remember, for every Bob, Bernier, Eriksson, there’s Ouellet and Pelletier.
Goalie prospects are so hard to gauge sometimes.
@philatticus on Twitter
True. But there’s a difference between not signing them (Eriksson) and using them as trade bait (Ouellet and Pelletier).
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point. Up until Bob, though, this has been an organization that really refused to put stock in young goalies. Look at Bouch, they bailed on him fairly quickly (although as you’ll see with other posts in here, b/c Cechmanek was playing LIGHTS OUT).
Pelletier went to Carolina, right? Who’d we get back him? I know Ouellet was in the Oates deal (I think). Ouellet, at one point (IIRC), was the top goalie prospect in the NHL.
@philatticus on Twitter
Oh, they absolutely mishandle goalies. All of them.
Pelletier went to Carolina with Brind’Amour for Primeau. Ouellet was at one point in the top-10 in prospects, not just goalies.
I hated the Ouellet trade – still do, since they gave up at least a 1st round pick and I think at least one more – but they used that leverage for something they needed. They didn’t even wait to see Eriksson in NA.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I hated it as well. Oates made no sense whatsoever.
Still, we dodged a bullet (in theory), but who knows what would have happened if he would have stayed in our highly youth-averse system?
@philatticus on Twitter
haha, same thing? Miserable flameout?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably. IIRC, Washington did him no favors either. BTW, according to wiki, he was invited to Flyers camp in 2008? Lasted 2 weeks. Didn’t know that.
I blame this on the organization’s affinity for Neil Little. Clarkey, get over it. The dude’s a terrible goalie. Move on to the young ones!
@philatticus on Twitter
I was going to say I had no idea they did that, but… I seem to vaguely remember Vancouver doing the same thing with Ouellet. I don’t know, still fascinating. Good find.
But it pains me to hear you trash Little like that. Always loved that guy.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Great guy, but let’s be real, we needed to develop talent, not hold it up so a never-was could have some glory. Sorta Bull Durhamish, I guess lol.
@philatticus on Twitter
Can’t argue with that.
But the Flyers let Boucher/Pelletier split duties for the Phantoms in 98-99, then Pelletier was the backup in 99-00 (mistake), Ouellet was the starter in 01-02 (got outplayed by Little), then in 02-03 Nitty split time with Little.
So… Little wasn’t bad, he did take away some playing time, but I don’t think it was too often.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Niitty’s another that could’ve been served better earlier. Then he got the chance and (IMHO) blew it.
I look at the AHL for pure development, so for I would have liked to see Ouellet be the starter unless his numbers were HORRIFIC. They probably were though, so I guess Neil gets the last laugh.
@philatticus on Twitter
Eh. Niitty was thrown into the fire in the shit season and burned. As a stats guy, I’ll even say his confidence may have been affected from that. Then he was a constant injury problem, and yada yada yada.
In 01-02, Ouellet had a 0.911 and 2.72 in 41 games.
Neil Little had a 0.926 and 2.02 in 35 games.
Probably not horrific, but sizeable.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup, especially considering the league and competition and such.
I think with Niitty it was more head than not (no stats required, or any way to prove it). He’d get hot, blow up and get pulled, and then bam. I tell you what though, I’d rather have him than Leighton in that Game 6.
His work in the Olympics spoke volumes.
@philatticus on Twitter
Agreed.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I look at the AHL for pure development, so for I would have liked to see Ouellet be the starter
And that’s why Leighton and Backlund were the AHL goalies in 2010-11!!!
/s
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Yup.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
While Vokoun for one year tells your fanbase and acquiring someone like Keith Yandle would say:
“Hey, let’s win now with Vokoun, Briere, Pronger, Timonen, Giroux etc. AAND we’ve got Bob, Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, JVR, Giroux, Coburn, Yandle etc. to win later. In other words: we’re going to win every year for the next 5-6 years!”
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
True. But if that (somewhat casual fanbase) thinks Bryz is a top 5 goalie, who’s to say that they won’t believe that regardless?
@philatticus on Twitter
Yeah I guess you could easily see the Jagr signing and Bryz signing together as a clear indication of ‘win now’ mode.
Who knows maybe we will win the Cup for the next 5-6 years. I won’t be complaining that’s for sure.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the Jagr/Bryz moves do just that, a more “cover our ass” thing than anything, really.
Don’t get me wrong, I love goalies and like Bryz a lot. Just the terms…the contract…oi.
@philatticus on Twitter
This.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I absolutely agree.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Things would’ve been much better if the Flyers had been patient and had the Kings throw Jonathan Bernier into the Richards’ deal instead of Simmonds and the 2nd rd. pick.
If it makes you feel any better, I rate the chances of Lombardi packaging Schenn and Bernier in a deal for Richards at 0.0%. And he adores Richards. They needed forward talent, but they wouldn’t have given their #1 forward and goaltending prospects for one guy. He’d had a lot of offers for those two, and resisted mightily.
I believe in both Bob and Bernier’s talent, but I think a veteran have had a better chance of surviving Philadelphia’s pressure-cooker. For what that’s worth.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
If Varlamov is being swapped for 1st AND 2nd round picks then you’re probably right about Bernier’s value.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
To be clear, it’s not so much as what they are worth on the open market, so much as I think what Lombardi would prefer to do (staggering risk, since their upside hasn’t been fully established). It could easily have been Bernier in a package for a top 6 forward instead, and he could also be dealt in the future.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Something Else Which Possibly Affected the Price in the Caps' Favor
Now, I am not trying to justify what Mr. Snider did, in re: Bryzgalov, but think about this.
- Vokoun wants to play for a “contender,” so he looks at each conference’s playoff teams.
- He looks at the Western Conference and sees that Detroit, Vancouver, Los Angeles, Nashville, San Jose (for now), and Anaheim (for now) are all set with goaltending.
- He looks at Phoenix and realizes that if he were to go there, it would be a slightly better version of his last few seasons in Florida.
- He looks at Chicago as a team with a young starter they’re confident in; and he also sees a team who is looking to SHED salary, not sign any big contracts.
- So he looks at the Eastern Conference and sees that Philadelphia is out of the picture with the Bryzgalov signing.
- He looks at the other playoff teams and sees that Tampa, Pittsburgh, New York, Boston, Montreal, and Buffalo all have quality starters, so he won’t be starting in any of those places.
- Washington comes calling and says, “You wanna play for a contender? We were the first seed in the East for the past two years. And we have two awesome young goalies – we have so much faith in them that we traded our starter away. So we like you and all, but we don’t really NEED you. And neither do any other contenders, so…”
- Vokoun: I want to play for you guys.
- Washington: Okay. You want to play for a contender, and we’re sure you’ll want to cash in somewhere when another contending team loses their starter by this time next year. So we’ll give you 1.5 million for this year for the right to play on a contender, and you can get your big payday in New Jersey or somewhere else next year. Deal?"
- Vokoun: Fine.
Not that this is exactly what happened, but I think the general idea here is that EVERY contending team was set in goal – even Washington, although they had some questions marks in goal. They had an advantage that the Flyers didn’t have – two good, young goaltenders, as opposed to one good young goaltender and a couple of journeyman backups at whom the hoi polloi laughed during the playoffs.
Had the Flyers acquired Vokoun’s rights, I don’t know if he’d have gotten a Bryzgalian contract, but his agent would have held the Flyers hostage a little. “You guys need goaltending and everyone knows it.”
By the time Vokoun got to Washington, almost no one needed goaltending and everyone knew it.
My point is that, while Ed Snider fucked his team, he was not the sole reason for Vokoun’s low contract. It was a combination of what the market needed + Vokoun going to a team that didn’t necessarily need him + the opportunity for him to go play somewhere else in 2012-13, with a good team who will need his services (NJ, TB, possibly NSH).
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I think this is entirely accurate.
My point is that, while Ed Snider fucked his team, he was not the sole reason for Vokoun’s low contract. It was a combination of what the market needed + Vokoun going to a team that didn’t necessarily need him + the opportunity for him to go play somewhere else in 2012-13, with a good team who will need his services (NJ, TB, possibly NSH).
What you hit on in there, the market + Vokoun wanting a contender, is exactly why the Flyers should have waited before signing Bryzgalov.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
A little nitpick—CHI had already shed salary. They could’ve conceivably added Richards.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 3, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, but the last two offseasons (this year and last) they had ditched salaries. And this past season they found they had a capable goalie in Corey Crawford. So they had no need for Vokoun anyway.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Ehhh…maybe I’m being a homer but I’d take Neuvirth over Crawford. Better pedigree, younger, and so forth. I think the Hawks were largely in the same situation (even with the younger good prospect in Salak).
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To help with basic Timeonice functions.
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by red army line on Jul 3, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
FYI, since I was picking on Dylan earlier, this is one of his good points earlier about a changed market: there was something of a Heisenberg effect (and yes, I know I’M using this term a bit loosely) after Bryz is signed.
I also posted last night that I thought Vokoun took less for a Cup.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Physics now? Stop it.
But IMO I think the turning point was dealing Varly to Colorado. Everyone expected Vokoun to go there.
Heisenberg?
He was pulled over by a police officer the other day. When the officer asked, “Do you know how fast you were going?” Heisenberg replied “No, but I know where I am.”
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Jul 3, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
This made me ROFL!
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Missing Mike Richards, the best Center since Clarke...
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
ROFLCOPTER?
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Heisenberg’s uncertainty. (Couldn’t resist but figure it was implied)
Now all we need is a Schroedinger.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Do you have a cat ready?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 4, 2011 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Not one whose life I’m ready to risk.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Understandable.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 5, 2011 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
He was pulled over by a police officer the other day. When the officer asked, "Do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg replied "No, but I know where I am."
I love this site – not only can someone post something like this here, but very many will get the joke. :)
Well done!
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 4, 2011 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Up next?
Chaos theory. Bryz flapped his wings, and before you know it Vokoun’s playing in Washington for food stamps and rights to Mike Green’s leftovers.
@philatticus on Twitter
Hmmm…I think when Bryz flaps his wings Varlamov goes on LTIR :(
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jul 3, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
There can only be one...
….Russian goaltender.
@philatticus on Twitter
Or Rick DiPietro.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Despite some of the moves, that as an outsider I don’t quite understand, Bryz should work out great for Philly.
And if for some reason he doesn’t, don’t fret about the contract. Word is there’s a team in Switzerland that’ll have an opening after next year.
/Bright side?
Lead writer for BlackhawkUp. Follow me on Twitter. God help us all...
by ChicagoNativeSon on Jul 2, 2011 11:44 PM EDT reply actions
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Nice.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Think about it
Isnt 5.6 million dollars a fair price for a couple shutouts?
lol
Want to know Jeff Carters legacy as a Philadelphia Flyer? Game 6 Stanley Cup Finals with about 2 minutes left. The rest is history.
Until our beat writers learn to stop jinxing our goalies, the curse has not been lifted.
Chem and I proved that during the playoffs.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Travis, in all seriousness, if we DO accept Bryzgalov as our team savior, then your chart doesn’t apply. It’s not like Giggy or Smith were recruited to be one of the best goalies in the league – so of COURSE they don’t get the same money. Even Vokoun – he was signed as a stopgap, just in case Neuvirth and Holtby shit the bed and killed their own confidence. I think you need to compare apples to apples – and looking at other top-flight goalies is where the Flyers put their price tag. So in comparison to equivalently PERCEIVED goalies, Bryz’s contract isn’t so bad.
Lundquist – $6.875m
Ward – $6.3m
Miller – $6.25m
Backstrom – $6.0m
Kiprusoff – $5.833m
Bryzgalov – $5.667m
Luongo – $5.333m
Brodeur – $5.2m
Fleury – $5.0m
Thomas – $5.0m
DiPietro – $4.5m
Hiller – $4.5m
And yes, I am trying to put the best possible shine on this turd.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
And I completely disagree.
You aren’t comparing apples to apples. The housing market example is perfect. Kipper, Backstrum, Luongo, etc. all signed those deals in 2007 (in the housing analogy) while Bryz signed it in 2009.
Are you comparing Pronger’s $4.9 million to Timonen’s $6.3 million? No, because they were different markets. Same thing here.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
SSSHHHHH!!!! I’m trying, dammit. Everyone sounds like they’re ready to run off and try to OD on Mineral Ice or something – I was looking for a positive spin.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha, okay. I just had an hour long argument on twitter with someone making this same point, so… my counter argument was already formulated.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 2, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, I am trying to put the best possible shine on this turd
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, uh… you know me. I was typing a response before I finished reading your entire comment, so I didn’t get that far until after.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
No worries.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Ugh
This offseason has been absolutely brutal. And to think: it’s only July. We still have months of stewing over this shit.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
And to think: it’s only July 2nd.
FTFY, i thought it needed a little more emphasis. We’re not even through the bloody weekend.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Suffice to say that the stomping around my house and flinging myself onto my bed have not stopped yet.
"We didn't do it the easy way. We took the hard way to do it. But we are part of history now."
I drowned my sorrows in ice cream. Phish Food. Mmm.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Always a good choice.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Just so you know – Ben And Jerry’s supports the “Free Mumia” campaign. I refuse to purchase their products.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t care. My Dad also fell 25ft and effed up his back while working and Ben & Jerry’s and they didn’t give him a red cent. I still eat it. Yum-o!
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Your contributions to the conscience of corporate America are astounding.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s hundreds of people who work for the same company who don’t share the same political philosophy. I happen to work for corporate America and don’t particularly care for the politics of my company, but I still work there.
Also, Ed Snider is a major Ayn Rand fan and follows her objectivist philosophy like religion; I find that offensive. Still love the Flyers.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I happen to work for corporate America and don’t particularly care for the politics of my company, but I still work there
I feel sorry for you. Dare I ask why? Isn’t there a comparable company that you could feel better about working for somewhere? Don’t get me wrong – I do understand that uniform political philosophy may not even be desirable as a corporate goal – but perhaps you ’don’t care’ more than you ’don’t care for the politics of [your] company’?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Politics suck period. Don’t want to get into them here. No, there is not a comparable company as this one lets me work from home which far outweighs any benefits I could get working somewhere else I truly loved.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Alright – I can respect that you made that choice. You felt that working from home was more important, and that is your choice.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a child to raise. There was no other choice.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Absolutely, I am not questioning you further, honest. Sorry if that last post seemed snarky – it wasn’t meant to be. And the mitigating circumstance of a child makes a HUGE difference in where someone can make personal sacrifices for something like an ‘ideal’ or ‘politics’, because you’re no longer only choosing that reduced opportunity for your self.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually – yes. I do give that credit; that sounded far more confrontational than I meant it to in the end.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Meh, I’ve had 3 or 4 glasses of wine. BTW, the Phils game was at 1:07pm. Where’s the fricken PG thread? Are they all on vacation—they have, like, 20 writers over there!
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Also, there are only two ice creams on the market that are made with actual dairy ingredients: Hagen Dazs and Ben & Jerry’s. HD is not always available. I will not buy that ice cream that consists of only chemicals and that’s EVERY OTHER BRAND.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Chemicals, dude. No ice cream natually pulls like taffy.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I don’t know them. Check the label. If there’s anything you can’t pronounce on there, it’s mostly chemicals. My Dad used to work for a lot of these places and the amount of dairy in the product is so minute, it’s scary.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I will grant you that argument … if you limit your search to what is available at Acme. There are plenty of other ice creams available that are made with real ingredients in full. Breyer’s Vanilla, just for one. Turkey Hill has an All-natural product line. Etc…
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Like I said below though, it’s hard to find any company that doesn’t support something you disagree with. You just might not know about it.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Breyer’s is not all-natural. Neither is Turkey Hill, regardless of what they tell you. Trust me: I know people who worked there. There’s not much dairy in them.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I suppose I have to go by the FDA-mandated ingredients labels, but if you have insider conspiracy information, please let me know so I can pass it on to the appropriate authorities.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not a conspiracy theory. FDA-mandated ingredients labels highlight ingredients all the time and leave off those that are below a certain percentage level. Also, ice cream “contains cream,” but that could be just a “dash” and still be accurate. If you buy the boutique Breyers, perhaps you’re getting just cream, milk, sugar and eggs—but not the half-gallon containers.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
The official Penn State creamery method. The stuff you get on the campus is crazy high in it
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Ed Snider is a major Ayn Rand fan and follows her objectivist philosophy like religion; I find that offensive.
Fascinating. I did not know this. This has major ramifications for the last few days.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Well, keep in mind who he had dropping the first puck in the ’08 home opener:
http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Sarah+Palin+Drops+Ceremonial+Puck+NHL+Game+BtInyJQ8q4Ql.jpg
My dad went to that game, and as he reported it: “Everyone upstairs was booing like crazy, and everyone downstairs was cheering.” It’s anecdotal (and I’m sure it’s incorrect), but it gave me a good laugh. Ah, ticket prices and class warfare at the hockey game!
by Cackalacky Mike on Jul 3, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
On TV, you couldn’t hear it. The music was blaring so loudly. The impression I got was that everyone was booing.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
it was closer to 75% boo’s and 25% cheers. I almost got into a fist fight for booing her with some lady who tried to clap over the booing.
Remember those Sarah Palin is a C*#t shirts?
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
You may dislike Palin (I’m not a fan) but she sure is no Objectivist.
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
No – that would require clarity of thought. (Not that I am a subscriber, just having ANY philosophy more complicated than “You betcha!” woudl require too much of her.)
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 4, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. In some respects, I think Ed Snider is completely off his rocker. He thinks that environmentalism is all about “getting in the way of big business just to save some damn spotted owl.” That is nearly a direct quote from him.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Well, yeah, in line with Ayn Rand. What isn’t though is the Ed Snider Youth Foundation. Must be a tax write-off. Still, however we can help kids, I’m all for it.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
YES – and I have direct knowledge of his attitude towards it.
Let’s just say that the Phils and Eagles are doing their part on their properties …
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 4, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Argh, why did you have to tell me that?
I remember a concert, in Philly, at the electric Factory, circa 1999. Ozomatli is the opening act, and they decide to play a song in support of that campaign. All sorts of stuff was thrown at them, and someone leaned over from the balcony on the right side and poured a pitcher of beer on one of the band members.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry. It’s damn good ice cream, no question. But I do have limits. And supporting convicted cop-killers is beyond my limits.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 2, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He was convicted by a jury. His conviction was upheld by two other juries – neither of which were all white, and neither of which dissented. The Supreme Court has ruled that his trial was fair.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Oops. Sorry – you never know WHAT people are thinking. Apologies.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Technically, the Supreme Court did not rule his trial was fair – they declined to hear the appeal (which probably means they didn’t consider it to have any basis, but isn’t quite the same as issuing a ruling).
/unlawyer’d
Bob.
Hell no. I’m an economist by training, a “supply chain professional” by occupation (I buy parts for an electronics manufacturer).
Bob.
Jeffie Detwiles is your brethren!
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I’m not sure if he’s done school yet, but essentially, yes.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
He got his JD but I don’t think he took the bar. He hasn’t disappeared for the mandatory 3 or 4 days in a row.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
hahaha, I take it July 26th/27th.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Only taking 1 state then?
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, same here. Those stupid videos recapping the simulated MBE put me to sleep.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m taking that this upcoming week. VA focused solely on state law the first month, which is apparently opposite of everyone lol.
VA Civ Pro I wish on NO ONE, not even Crosby.
Are you always exhausted from this shit? I feel like I have mono.
@philatticus on Twitter
haha, Not exhausted, but constantly stressed. When I’m not studying, I’m freaking out that I should be studying.
And I never get like that.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah the anxiety is thick. I have the Barbri app on my iPad, so all yesterday I was constantly doing questions and refreshing twitter. If you don’t have that app, and have an iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch, get it. Mini Reviews/Mini CMR’s + StudySmart all at your fingertips.
@philatticus on Twitter
Sadly, I have a Blackberry. Stupid Balsillie.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, probably not.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, yup.
Almost got one. Got a Droid instead.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Excellent :). The only non-Apple product I own (I know, I know) is my Dinc. Love it.
Root yours!
@philatticus on Twitter
Nah, no need. It works fine without rooting.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
they haven’t yet? Check cyanogenmod, I’m sure they have it. I’m on CM7, and have better battery life and speed. And plus none of that BS VZW stuff.
@philatticus on Twitter
Geoff is going to be a lawyer.
We had a very special lawyer here from Pronger’s arrival in 2009 to just about this time last year.
Very smart and knew his hockey, but was mean to everyone. Lots of new members were reluctant to post because they were afraid of him tearing them down for no reason.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
He hated Michael Leighton more than just about everyone else on the planet. We all did by the Finals last year, but this guy took it to extremes. Like he blamed the Flyers’ game 2 loss (which they lost 2-1) on Michael Leighton.
He was a big fan of advanced stats, but he leaned too heavily on some of them – inappropriately at times. He found a way for them to prove that Randy Jones is better than Rob Scuderi. I will never forget that.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
And he was, in general, correct. He liked Boosh though I remember. He also hated Lavvy and his aggressive forechecking and argued it didn’t fit the Flyers personnel and system. Sometimes I got the feeling that we were just lagging two months behind his conclusions.
Even with JVR, he predicted JVR would burn out by the end of the season. And he was right. I just didn’t accept it because I think JVR’s great in every way.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Here’s the difference, though:
It wasn’t about him hating the system, it was about him a) denying the system was different; and b) then calling for him to be fired.
It wasn’t about him predicting JVR would burn out, it was about him demanding that JVR be sent to the Phantoms in the middle of the season.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I do remember at the start of the season when he was advocating for JVR to be sent down to the Phantoms that he brought up the Blake Wheeler comparison I think to illustrate that college players won’t last an 82 game NHL season. So he did successfully predict that.
When it came to the middle of the year and he was still arguing for JVR to be sent down it got frustrating because there wasn’t much the Flyers could do at that point.
Then again, I was just a lurker back then so I might not remember as accurately as those who participated in the arguments.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
No, that’s plenty accurate. The problem for me is that it was more like a 2 year old stomping his foot and wanting it done his way, because he didn’t always have a good answer when somebody asked “well who do you want to bring up in his place?”
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
This is true. Perhaps it’s just as well though. The Manny Malhotra love went a little out of hand.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, he was right about that. haha
It was rarely a problem with his opinions – he was often right – it was the incessant harping on it and the step taken after he was right that got out of hand.
Most of us here didn’t want JVR to start the year in the NHL last year. But when he did, almost everyone agreed that he shouldn’t be sent down after making it.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, why?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Well it should be
“Kramer Vs. Kramer”.
not Seinfeld Krammer. It’s a movie made in the late 70’s starring D. Hoffman and M. Streep that is about vicious custody battle over their little boy.
haha, I’ve never heard of that movie.
But sounds like a spot-on analogy.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Upside: He kept jackasses out.
Downside: He also kept everyone else out.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Fixed.
Downside: He did it by being a jackass..also kept everyone else out.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
He was right about some things, though. Malhotra, for instance.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Eklund is also right about some things.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Look: I was only on this board a week when he called me a fucking idiot. I never liked him, but I wish he could have had a better rapport with people because he actually had something to bring to the table.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Yeah I forget who but someone said JIBTA could be MarioD. MarioD knew 50 times more about hockey than JIBTA.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Mario may have been more combatative, but he did actually know his shit. Some of his concepts were a bit over-the-top, but as examples of his thinking they were surprisingly sound. He and I crossed swords a couple times, and I daresay I honestly lost each argument, and not on the basis of his over-reaction but on the basis of his actual point to be made.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d say he was right a lot of the time. Just the delivery needed work.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The problem was that, in his mind, it didn’t. Whenever someone would say, “Okay, I get your point, but do you have to be such a jerk about things?” He would always come back with “I don’t care what you think of me.” Every single time. The internet gave him license to be a jerk, in his mind.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I remember him and Fehr and Balanced had some epic discussions on the Caps bandwagon.
One thing you couldn’t fault him for: he hated a lot of the things the Flyers were doing and predicted the Flyers wouldn’t make the playoffs (and he was one shootout loss away from being right), but he at heart he was still a fan and still hated the Capitals and Penguins as much as the rest of us do.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
It was Fehr who gave him the nickname “Huck.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Those were good times, because it meant I didn’t have to black out arguing with him.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
And I didn’t have to get defensive until I was blue in the face. It didn’t bother me that much when he attacked me, but for some reason it really got under my skin when he attacked you. I’ve always been extremely defensive of people I would consider my friends, but he really set me off a few times.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
hahaha, awww. I’m touched by that.
When he tried to pull that “I thought you wanted to learn from me, Geoff” bullshit, I would always flip my shit. haha
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
You don’t remember those threads when I went off defending you? I seriously feel like I was screaming my head off at the computer screen.
He certainly had a way of dominating the conversation around here. The first pick up game all we did was complain about him for the first hour. It was like all banding together against a common foe.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, I do. Certainly not all of them, but you called me your friend. haha
And yeah, that first pickup game had a 5 minute intermission turn into a 45 minute bitch about Mario break.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
For the sheer number of hours I spend on here, I have to consider most of the regulars my friends at some level. Certainly something above acquaintances, considering how many silly things I know about people. I know who people’s favorite comic book charactors are, I know who is a coffee snob and who is a wine person and who is a beer snob, etc. But I don’t argue for hours defending everybody, so I guess it is a compliment.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, I absolutely take it as a compliment. And I consider you a friend too, I just never thought of it that way.
Most of that is due to me not seeing most of you in awhile. Don, I see all the time. So that’s a lot easier to realize. haha
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Every time Vansteel and I discussed organizing a pick up game we were roundly ignored. We tried more than once to bring up the discussion, so it’s not my fault that we all haven’t seen each other in a while.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Well… I’m not blaming you at all, just stating facts.
And July isn’t a good month for me. Maybe August?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, I consider a good number of people on here to be friends, even though I’ve never met anyone in person. It’s just that sort of community.
Bob.
My problem is I always confuse you with Darkside, which really sucks. haha
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
How? One has capital letters, one doesn’t; one is in PA, the other is in Florida….
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, because I’m an idiot?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And a lightning rod for internet crazy.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
This, this right here.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, so true.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s hilarious. I tried to get Ben to open up about him when he played in our pick up game but he wouldn’t bite. I think he wanted to keep the laundry in-house.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I can understand where he might want to keep the laundry in house; but you witnessed the whole thing anyway. For all intents and purposes in the Us vs MarioD battles, you were basically part of the “us”.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. Maybe making peace between the Caps and Flyers fans has been MarioD’s secret plan all along…
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Exactly. And soon to be united by an undying hatred for what Jagr did in our teams’ jersey…
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Jul 3, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Eff that guy with the gel from his mullet.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 4, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Not entirely everyone subscribes to your new philosophy sir. And CobiesCuddles insists that’s OK.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 4, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he was just a jerk, on the internet or not
G, the second coming of Foppa.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 3, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, at least half wrong.
Mourning Gagne forever.
by ToddtheFox on Jul 3, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He also got out-CBA’d by an engineer a couple of times, but ya know, he was right most of the time.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, I liked his drawings, too. It’s a shame he was so bad with people. We could use him around here.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
His drawings taught me a lot. I would love to know what he thinks about Richards and Carter. He was a big ‘Pronger should be captain’ guy but he also said that Richards was the best player the Flyers had a few times. I don’t remember what he thought about Carter but he loved his two-way guys.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I enjoyed his defensive breakdowns quite a bit. They were his strong suit, for sure.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, you do have to admit – engineers SHOULD be able to out-interpret a legal document over a lawyer. Lawyers are always looking for nuance, while engineers are trained to read it specifically. Just the words on the page; no more, no less. I have far more trouble writing technical specifications and process descriptions than I do legal briefs. (And I am an engineer, for full disclosure, so I may be slightly biased.)
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
But lawyers read it in light of 80 million things dealing with the law, foremost of which is its legal effect and enforceability.
@philatticus on Twitter
Exactly – lawyers read it in terms of the law. Not in terms of the actual words on the page, and how effectual or ineffectual they are in the real world. Engineers are often guilty of this too (myself included), slanting writing only to those who have preconceived notions of interpretation. But just because you think the intended effect is communicated, that doesn’t mean it really is.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 4, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
True that. Hence a widespread movement from legalese to plain language (spearheaded by a cat named Bryan Garner, who basically attaches himself to anything and everything with a pulse).
The problem, however, comes down to when what the words mean “plainly” has no relation to its actual meaning. Like, just b/c a term or word is in there may not mean that it means a thing…or vice versa. Ugh.
@philatticus on Twitter
That’s an overgeneralization. Lawyers read it for the words on the page as well as the law. It depends why they are reading it at that time. Because of the training, they do frequently read it with an eye toward what the potential conflicts could be. Saying that Engineers “read the words on the page, no more, no less” is too simplistic, and that’s why people pay lawyers to do it.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Reading the CBA is strikingly similar to finding the connections in a technical spec, putting the puzzle pieces together, and figuring out what the engineers who wrote the spec failed to account for; I admit that. That skill is definitely how I pulled most of it off. But I did also do a lot of stuff with By Laws in an organization I’ve been a part of for 15 years, I guess that doesn’t hurt.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
And they do, especially since they often wrote them with that in mind.
Key example? Partnership Tax Code. The only ones who know what the hell it is are the lawyers that wrote it. They make $$$$$ in consulting fees.
@philatticus on Twitter
Only inasmuch as the legal interpretation. In the effectual interpretation, my experience is that lawyers wear their ‘lawyer’ glasses a bit too tightly, and can’t read the actual words on the page. The intent within the law is what they see – the actual real-world usage is what needs to be read.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 4, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I generally find that to be a bigger problem in contract drafting, to be honest. They’ll make incredibly unworkable/impractical documents to try to seal off all sorts of legal challenges.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
And then a white knight in shining armor came along from another SBN fan base and started the uprising against his tyrannous rhetorical ways (and crappy screen cap evidence)!
Obviously, this is all speculation.
by Rob Parker on Jul 3, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bongo.
Correct. Letter vs. spirit bites the sensible every time.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I was like 16 and my jaw hit the floor when they said they were doing the song for him…. “Do they realize where they are?” Even if you think the campaign is correct, it was not the brightest idea.
But I doubt there are very many companies that don’t support something I disagree with.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
This time last year we were going crazy about these Gagne rumors that came out of nowhere. Last year was hard too.
Why must you do this to us Flyers?
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
In the early 70’s we were known as the team that ruined hockey forever, and it win us 2 cups.
After all the moves we have already made this summer (trading the two darlings of the organization after they signed extremely Long contracts believing they would be flyers for life) once again we are known as the assholes of the league who have no respect for their players, doing anything and everything possible to win a cup, maybe we will win a couple more??
Wishful thinking.
Want to know Jeff Carters legacy as a Philadelphia Flyer? Game 6 Stanley Cup Finals with about 2 minutes left. The rest is history.
by nastynas88 on Jul 3, 2011 12:15 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
My thoughts on this....
Ahhhh who fucking cares. Snider and Homer has gutted this team and at this point it doesn’t matter what any of us think.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Jul 3, 2011 12:22 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yep. Ed Snider confuses "creative destruction" with "carthaginian peace" - from the showing my age, way back time machine -
we will learn to watch it burn.
Pardon, had to use that thar goggle translater. I thought it meant “gitter dun”. Sure is purdy soundin’ way to say " kill everyone".
The Google translator seems to stumble with Latin. It gave back, “But I think, however, the complete destruction of Carthage would be” which is kinda senile British Yoda and not really close to “Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed” (according to Wikipedia)
Grammar for alot of languages, when you really get into like on a linguistists level is complex, but Latin is just another level.
It works better if you take it out of the indirect statement, which is Carthago delenda est. But yeah, it’s understandable that Google translate is not kickin’ it old school.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Well done on the grammar – I’m impressed! :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m also impressed—-took a few years of Latin and really enjoyed it, but can’t really remember a damn thing.
On a side-note, I have the language setting in FB set to “Pirate”. Did you guys know that was an option? I find it pleasantly diverting.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s interesting!
What other languages can you set it to? (I’m not on Facebook by choice, but those days are about to change.)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Afrikaans
Azərbaycan dili
Bahasa Indonesia
Bahasa Melayu
Bosanski
Català
Čeština
Cymraeg
Dansk
Deutsch
Eesti
English (Pirate)
Español
Esperanto
Euskara
Filipino
Føroyskt
Français
Frisian
Gaeilge
Galego
한국어
Hrvatski
Íslenska
Italiano
ქართული
Kiswahili
Kurdî
Latviešu
Leet Speak
Lietuvių
lingua latina
Magyar
Nederlands
日本語
Norsk (bokmål)
Norsk (nynorsk)
Polski
Português
Română
Русский
Shqip
Slovenčina
Slovenščina
Suomi
Svenska
ภาษาไทย
Tiếng Việt
Türkçe
中文
Ελληνικά
Беларуская
Български
Македонски
Српски
Українська
Հայերեն
עברית
العربية
پښتو
فارسی
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that’s quite a few! :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s also English (Upside down) and English (UK)
And it differentiates between French (Canada) and French (France)
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Crap. Didn’t realize I’d monopolize bandwidth in such a piggish fashion with one language per line! As you’ve mentioned before, ‘preview’ is an important tool on here.
Anyway, congrats on the DGS enlistment, Chem! You are funny, and it’s much deserved. Anyone who’s a Dr. Who and Flyers fan is aces in my book.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Bahahahaha, it’s only pictures that really screw with bandwidth anyway. Text usually takes up little space.
And thanks about the DGS thing!
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Well, that’s good! I’m on a movie/film discussion forum, and they can get pissy over there if you drop in unnecessary carriage returns (ooh I love dropping in anachronistic terminology)!
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here. I miss Latin.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Haha, Metamorphoses is one of my favorites.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Woah, I need to read better, I thought we were going to get into some Kafka discussion. Whew. Not ready for that today lol.
@philatticus on Twitter
The Rip-Off Romans - Culture Fell Right Off the Back of a Truck.
Brillant, here come the Romans to borrow a cup of culture. Put the newspaper on the floor and hide the good pottery.
It always comes back to the Greeks.
The Near East replies, “Oh no you didn’t.”
Give it up for Mesopotamia. Much respect.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I agree – Mesopotamia doesn’t get enough respect. The Sumerians (and other cultures between the rivers) were the originators of many things, and yet they didn’t/don’t get the credit for it – just because they didn’t build the Pyramids (not that Egypt’s history doesn’t deserve its acclaim – it does – it’s just tragic that a by-product of their acclaim is that Sumer/Mesopotamia gets less/next-to-none).
Their version of a pyramid-like structure has one of the coolest names: ziggurat! :)
It always comes back to the Greeks.
A lot does, not all. The Romans were much better engineers (and soldiers, but that goes without saying), created a legal system which laid the roots of our own…well, I could go on for a while.
Yes, they inherited a lot, but they were innovators too. (They even invented concrete…yes, really.)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 5, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
The Greeks even had to borrow their alphabet. Doesn’t make them less awesome.
I agree with all of your points. The cool thing about cultural transmission is that each society adds some new twist. Everyone owes something to the ones who came before, but it’s the tweaks that make it compelling.
Oh, and Roman concrete is totally badass. The aqueducts leave me in awe, and the dome of the Pantheon makes me want to cry. I was lucky enough to study in Rome, and I’ll never forget it.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
by Niesy on Jul 5, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ooooh, envy…that is the only hole I need to fill, i.e., actually visiting the Eternal City. Since I’m a lot closer now, visiting will be easier.
Yes, the aqueducts are phenomenal. How they built them over 2000 years ago still boggles the mind…
The cool thing about cultural transmission is that each society adds some new twist. Everyone owes something to the ones who came before, but it’s the tweaks that make it compelling.
Well said, and, thus, rec’d. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 6, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Catullus and Ovid are so awesome.
My two favorite authors! :) Just taught a class in Catullus this year – my students expanded their vocabularies in unexpected ways (they nominated “irrumator” as their favorite word, even though it’s from a poem that wasn’t on the syllabus – no, I won’t define it here; as with many words from Catullus, it’s too rude to define in polite company). Great poet and poems. :)
Haha, Metamorphoses is one of my favorites.
One of mine too! :) Also one of Shakespeare’s favorites. A lot of his well-known plays are based on stories from the Metamorphoses (e.g., Romeo and Juliet is an adaptation of Pyramus and Thisbe from the Metamorphoses).
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Pyramus and Thisbe is my favorite. In my Latin 201 (Intermediate Latin) class in Freshman year of college, we had to pick something to share with the class that had anything to do with Latin/Rome. I picked the Pyramus and Thisbe story. The imagery is just beautiful.
Catullus was a favorite from my Latin 3 Honors class in senior year of high school.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I can only agree – it’s one of Ovid’s best pieces.
May I ask at what high school you learned Catullus? I thought I was the only one who taught it in the Flyers fan area (j/k). :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m from South Jersey, haha. We did some Catullus in between a bunch of other stuff.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I’m glad you got to read him in high school – best time, really. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 4, 2011 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course they liked irrumator. Every high school boy is one, especially early in their high school careers.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Generalizing a little bit, of course.
It’s possible that I was taught an incorrect meaning of the word, in which case… I take it all back?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
It is usually watered down when taught in class.
There’s no one word equivalent in English – it means “a guy who forces someone else to perform fellatio on him”. The nuance that is left out of the euphemistic translations is that the action is compelled.
But, Catullus meant it figuratively – just like we don’t literally mean the unabbreviated version of “mofo” when we say it. He was going for shock value.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 4, 2011 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I was taught the wrong meaning of the word. I was taught (politely) that it meant “self-rubber” or “person who ‘rubs’ himself.”
Hence my earlier statement about high school students. Mea culpa!
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I was taught the wrong meaning of the word. I was taught (politely) that it meant "self-rubber" or "person who ‘rubs’ himself." Hence my earlier statement about high school students. Mea culpa!
Don’t worry about it – it’s almost always translated euphemisitically. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 5, 2011 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s no one word equivalent in English – it means "a guy who forces someone else to perform fellatio on him".
Rapist works.
BUT, to be accurate, it would have to be something like “oral rapist” – an unusual concept, to be sure.
Still, I’m just happy he didn’t mean it literally…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 5, 2011 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
It sounds like a fun class! I didn’t get Catullus until college. High school was Vergil. And then you learn the double meanings of everything later.
His vocab is so delightfully specific. I always wanted to write an article on the similarities between his trashtalk and the lyrics of Dr. Dre. Hm. Maybe someday.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Do it! That would be a great read! :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 4, 2011 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions
By the way Gagne said this:
It’s almost like Philadelphia on the West Coast, so it was definitely a place where I know they were looking to get me.
Sigh
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, he will also always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2011 12:25 AM EDT reply actions
Ouch, the knife hurt.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
If he makes it the whole season…
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 3, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Might fan post this but...
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
DGS enlisted you? Congrats!
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks!
I also got a #FF from him for the past 3 weeks straight.
Apparently, I’m funny or something?
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
/Sighs
I know I’ve been on Twitter a while, but I don’t actually know what FF actually stands for. This would be why I have less than 30 followers, because I don’t really tweet anyway.
/hangs head
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
“Follow Friday”
Basically, people that you think others should follow.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I figured it was ‘follow’ something. Thanks.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Ha – I have 10 followers – you, Chem, Kat’s two accounts, Leepin, PhillyFriar and WetLuzinski from TGP, a friend from elementary school, and 2 spam accounts.
Bob.
It took me a while to gain followers. A lot of the first ones were just BSHers.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
ROFL…I just looked at my profile. My “similar to” comparisons?
Anthony SanFilippo
NHLFlyers
Justin F
Bob.
Haha
‘cillo stache is one that it listed. But when I clicked on “All” I have Travis, Shaun, Eric, Geoff, both of Kat’s accounts, Ben, DG, Leapin and ecnewmanscribe who I can never spell her BSH name out since I forget where the numbers go.
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
people probably show up on mine but I have no idea who any of you are so there’s that. I do follow travis though.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Well who are you?
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Requested.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
My twitter username is extraordinarily easy to figure out….
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t even have similar to comparisons, I only see them for other people
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
potnoodlez does a lot of RT’ing. She’s always talking with Teemu and Flyers Faithful, among others.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of mine were BSHers, and I have a few more of them I guess , but I guess a couple of retweets gained me some people because it looks like I have a handful of actual flyers fans that started following me. Plus the Ben Rothenberg that certainly doesn’t seem to be our Ben Rothenberg
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
BTW, what do you think?
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
About the post? Very funny/cute/just all around awesome. About being on a masthead somewhere? Impressed.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Favorite part (if you had one?)
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Another one bites the dust was my favorite too. But adding London Bridge as an alternate was a nice touch
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2011 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Be more of a jerk why don't you?
Thanks!
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Well, I was thinking about it, but my response fell too far on the harsh side of the snark line, even for me.
Bob.
UNPOSSIBLE!
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Seriously, I was going to reply to your “Apparently, I’m funny or something?” with “I’m voting for the ‘or something’”, but I just couldn’t make myself do it.
Bob.
Holy shit, I just read through 662 comments at 6am on a Sunday. I definitely did not drink enough last night….
I'm kind of a dick.
Three.
"We didn't do it the easy way. We took the hard way to do it. But we are part of history now."
Four. Though I do have a bottle of tequila in my room.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Dammit, you’re legal now!
"We didn't do it the easy way. We took the hard way to do it. But we are part of history now."
Yes. Yes, I am.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Off topic question
The comment above a/b paying Bryzy $5.6 million for a couple shutouts this season has me wondering……..
What are we paying Hartnell as far as dollars of his salary per fall? I’m going to have to see if I can dig those numbers up.
by flyerboom_6 on Jul 3, 2011 9:34 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
- Final 2010-2011 Hartnell Down count was 330 over 90 games
- Hartnell’s 2010-2011 salary (according to Capgeek) was $4,200,000
$4,200,000/330 = $12,727.27 per fall
by flyerboom_6 on Jul 3, 2011 9:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That’s far less than the crew of “Jackass” get, so I suppose its a good contract, huh?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jul 3, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad they still traded the players and freed up a good chunk of cat space. Wish they didn’t sign Breezy, but I don’t think the team trades Carts or Richards if Breezy isn’t needed. So I’m torn
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 3, 2011 1:54 PM EDT reply actions
Something bugs me about this
Not just the “we didn’t get Vokoun” part (which I was a proponent of bringing him in before.) There has to be something that no one is picking up on as to why no one would offer him after all this time. The age thing can’t be the only reason (considering what Thomas proved this past year.) Something just doesn’t add up with Vokoun.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 3, 2011 3:41 PM EDT reply actions
How do you know nobody offered him?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s true nobody knows how many offers he received and for what amount. I’m just surprised after Tallon made it well known that they would entertain any and all offers at the deadline last year and then all of our circles were putting him and Bryz in the same list that no one moved on him sooner than this. To me it just seems like a “too good to be true” with this deal.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 3, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s definitely hard to fathom how he got so little, but I put more faith in “wanting to play for a contender” than I do “no one offered him after all this time.”
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
He should be able to be the #1 there too and I would think Holtby would go to the AHL so it puts them in pretty good shape goaltending wise both AHL & NHL. He is a few years older than Bryz so it’s understandable that he would be at the point to say cup over cash. I don’t know why it bugs me but I think just seeing the 1.5 next to Vokoun’s name is throwing me off.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 3, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Now I understand
Sporting News reports that Vokoun called the Caps and told them he’d settle for a lowball deal to play for them. Now that makes more sense to me. The Caps had no plans to sign Vokoun until he called them.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 3, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
802 comments? Daaaaaaaaaaamn.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I’m late to the party, so without going through the comments here’s what I have to say:
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!?!?!?!?!
I knew that we overpaid for Bryzgalov, but really by this amount doesn’t surprise me. We made the same mistake last year with Leighton that the only reason it didn’t blow up in our faces is because he was injured and Bob stepped up.
So new offseason, same mistake. We don’t wait for the start of free agency and what happens? We give a contract worth more than what every other goalie signed for combined.
How would our cap look like with Vokoun for this amount or even 2-3M (which I wouldn’t be upset with even seeing how low he could have gone for). I don’t want to get into it but we’d have quite a bit more space to maybe SAVE for the deadline if one of our new additions isn’t working out.
I don’t know, I’m just rambling my thoughts here. Bottom line: I wanted Vokoun more than Bryzgalov, and now that he signed for 3x less I’m just more pissed.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Missing Mike Richards, the best Center since Clarke...
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
Have fun reading through the 800+ comments, haha.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Nah I just skipped everything, no time to read it all but I’m sure the basic idea is that everybody feels similar to myself and I probably repeated things that were said 100x before.
Oh well, I’ll get over this and just be focused on seeing our team win with what we have.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Missing Mike Richards, the best Center since Clarke...
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
You should read through it though. Or just skim it. There’s some funny stuff up there.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
yeah what else is there to do on a sunday?
wait I should be ‘brating hard. where’s the fireworks at?
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Aren’t they tomorrow, AKA the actual 4th?
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I have no idea anymore. I don’t really pay too much attention to holidays.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Haha I only know because we’re having a mini barbecue tomorrow and then going to fireworks.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Interesting...
Tomas Vokoun found there wasn’t as much demand for his services as he was expecting, despite his stellar NHL record. So he let the Capitals know he’d be willing to forego a big contract to play for a Stanley Cup contender.
“Honestly I didn’t have a whole lot of offers,” Vokoun said. “The money side, it’s not great, but the opportunity is unbelievable. Obviously it was a disappointing day for me, July 1. For whatever reason, I was basically in the bad spot and Washington came in.”
Vokoun said the best offers came from his old team, the Florida Panthers, who proposed a two-year contract and a three-year deal.
“I don’t think we anticipated being this fortunate,” McPhee said Sunday. “This is a heck of a move for the organization. We thought we were done a couple of days ago. … We’ve been telling other GMs and the media that we were done making offers because we thought we were.”
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 3, 2011 6:19 PM EDT reply actions
This might also explain why he was offered $1.5 million.
Vokoun : George, I don’t feel like playing for the Panthers. I want a Cup. Do you need someone?
McPhee: We only can give you $1.5 and remain under the cap.
Vokoun: That will work.
McPhee: OK!!!
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
Yeah now I feel for the guy. It’s like “c’mon people I am a good goalie! Seriously!” I mean the Avs gave Giguere a two year deal to basically be a mentor at about the same dollars. Now I’m a bit worried that he’s going to play with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 3, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Now I’m a bit worried that he’s going to play with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.
And take his anger out on the Flyers for not calling him when they wanted to spend $50 million on a goalie?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah that has come to mind. Of course a lot has to happen for us to see them in the playoffs (plus he has to be steady enough to outplay Neuvirth) but he may be a little motivated to show that he would’ve been worth the money we paid Bryz.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 3, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The Caps are paying Neuvirth and Vokoun less than what the Avs are paying Varlamov.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Jul 4, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
out of curiosity
I was over and the penguins sbnation site because I wanted to see if they were still reacting negatively towards Jagr. And well the answer is yes and a lot worse than I expected.
It seems a lot of them are still trying to say Jagr was just chasing money and philly threw more at him. It seems they refuse to believe he had bigger offers and concede to thinking that he’s a greedy liar that played with their emotions.
I was curious about a few things including why he left pitt in the first place and signed with the Rangers( simply because I don’t know, and didn’t care at that time) And also why they refuse to belive phillys wasn’t even the biggest offer on the table. But as I signed into sb nation it told me I wasn’t allowed to post there. Question: Are pens fans not allowed to post here either? If so how completely ridiculous.
by kckrebs on Jul 3, 2011 7:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah, that’s kind of surprising, and runs somewhat counter to my own anecdotal evidence of the mood among Pens fans. I live in Pittsburgh, and I keep hearing how pissed everybody is over losing Talbot to us; it seems as though most had the impression that he would stay here at a discount because of his local hero status, and involvement in the community. Oh yeah, and plus the girls think he’s attractive in a dirty boy kind of way. Like Brad Pitt in Thelma & Louise.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It was like everyone was a little irritated by the Jagr thing, and then were completely pushed over the edge by the Talbot thing.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
There was a video someone showed me of a guy cutting up a Talbot jersey on Youtube. I wanted to comment on it and say “Waahhhhhhhhhhhhhh Mommy, Max doesn’t love me anymore!”
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
But let me guess he didn’t allow comments on the video? Haha
by kckrebs on Jul 3, 2011 7:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nah, I just didn’t bother.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Haha I had to check it out. What a duo of complete ass clowns in that video wow hahaha.
Are they saying talbot should have taken less money and less years just to say with a team that doesn’t want him as bad as another? Do they really not understand the business aspect of the NHL? I mean come onn lol..
by kckrebs on Jul 3, 2011 8:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
‘There, there my beautiful boy. Don’t cry, after all you still have Arron Asham who is essentially the same player, and surprised many of us by being the leading scorer in the Tampa series’.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I read things that ranged from f*ck you Jagr to I guess jagrs greed got the best of him again to I lost what little respect I still had for jagr and my favorite was f*ck you jagr we don’t need you, have fun missing the playoffs you coward!
They are really up in arms about this and its really quite amusing, to me anyways haha
by kckrebs on Jul 3, 2011 7:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ha! How does that make him a coward? Dopes.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Figured it out....I think
I think the reason I wasn’t allowed to post was because I was mobile and when I signed up there it never showed me the terms of use thing. So I think this might be why?
If memory serves me correctly, Jagr was traded to the Washington Capitals at a time when Mario Lemieux was coming back from cancer (after missing at least a whole year). And the Penguin management didn’t think they could afford both of them and since Mario is the man, Jagr is who had to go. So, the Caps signed Jagr to a mega long and expensive deal. But Jagr did not produce as expected, and seemed more than a bit disinterested. So, after a few years of this, the Caps traded him to the Rangers (and took back some of his salary). To this day, Jagr is reviled in Caps Land and Caps fans would not want him back under any circumstance.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Hey I finished!
All 800-plus comments! Read! (well, some of them skimmed).
What do I win, Alex?
In preparation for NHL free agency, thinking of changing my screen name to Bhudde in 10OC.
A sense of self-satisfaction?
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
What an amazing thread. We had tears&laughter (mostly tears),a post-mortem smiting, a song, a Latin Lesson, a Roflcopter, and idiotic Pens fans making fools of themselves!
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and I left out Russian name derivations, Greek literature, Econ 101, and ice cream ingredients.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually think there’s a much greater chance that Bryz is a Eurovision devotee than Vokoun. He probably doesn’t even see his guilty pleasures as guilty pleasures.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I Tweeted to Ben about something Eurovision earlier today.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Nick Kypreos at Sportsnet.ca Tweets Stamkos Trade Looming
Update 7/3 – 9:00pm: From Nick Kypreos at Sportsnet.ca an hour ago: Yzerman & Stamkos not even close on a new deal. #nhl Trade Looming.
Commentary: My guess is Toronto’s Burke is involved. Look for the Flyers to be involved in a prelude trade or part of it but Stamkos ends up in Toronto and some pieces end in Philly, like Schenn.
Update 7/3: Toronto traded with Nashville today. One interesting fact after this deal, with the addition of Franson, the Leafs now have eight NHL defensemen on the roster.
Other Rumors: Burke trying to pry Jeff Carter from the Blue Jackets
I’m not surprised Toronto is waking up a few days after the 1st. This is Burke’s typical GM mantra. I just wonder how we’re going to be involved.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 3, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a fake twitter account
Had a _ at the end of it. Many pointed out it is not the real guy, a fake twitter account.
Thank God for that! Stupid fake twitter people.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 3, 2011 9:40 PM EDT reply actions
How close are theFlyers to the 50 contract limit? Can they make a one-for-one trade and still sign Simmonds?
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 9:42 PM EDT reply actions
^^Please disregard. I just realized that they must be at < or = 49.
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
by Jody_Shelley's_Frankenstein on Jul 3, 2011 9:47 PM EDT reply actions
For clarification, they are at 46, but have qualified Simmonds and Kalinski. So they’re basically at 48.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 3, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW, Eklund is now stirring this unending pot of madness. Saying the Leafs and Flyers are essentially standing by, and that Stamkos is trade-able. Ugh.
@philatticus on Twitter
Eklund?
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
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