How About This For Optimism? Compare Matt Carle
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 10:00 AM EDT
in Philadelphia Flyers Commentary
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Yesterday's news resulted in a couple of people, particularly on Twitter, saying that we here at Broad Street Hockey are always negative.
Naturally, this rubbed most of us the wrong way. Not only do we disagree, but we've been positive to the point where regular readers have told us we weren't negative enough about the Flyers' play down the stretch.
Even though we've been positive before, let's add another positive post.
Unfortunately, it's yet another statement that is often met with resistance: Matt Carle is really, really good.
| GP | TOI/60 | Corsi Rel QoC | Corsi Rel QoT | G/60 | A1/60 | G+A1/60 | P/60 | GFON/60 | GAON/60 | CorsiRel | OZ% | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Luke Schenn | 82 | 18.00 | 0.392 | 0.732 | 0.20 | 0.41 | 0.61 | 0.85 | 2.48 | 2.64 | 1.5 | 49.3 |
| Victor Hedman | 79 | 16.32 | 0.506 | 1.009 | 0.14 | 0.42 | 0.56 | 1.07 | 2.93 | 2.42 | 8.4 | 50.0 |
| Matt Carle | 82 | 17.57 | 0.585 | 0.827 | 0.04 | 0.67 | 0.71 | 1.37 | 3.50 | 2.33 | 6.0 | 47.8 |
| Keith Yandle | 82 | 18.75 | 0.637 | -0.815 | 0.31 | 0.43 | 0.74 | 1.21 | 2.65 | 2.19 | 1.7 | 51.8 |
All numbers at even-strength. He didn't score many goals this year, but he made up for it with primary assists. He faced tough competition, with good teammates, finished second to Lubomir Visnovsky in points per 60, didn't give up many goals, started in his own end often, and still drove the play forwards compared to his teammates.
Look at how he stacks up with Victor Hedman (former #2 overall pick, $3.5m ELC), Luke Schenn (former #5 overall pick, $2.975m ELC), and Keith Yandle ($5.25m for five years). I'd say that's a pretty good player, more than worth the $3.4 million cap hit he's charged with.
Now, before anybody can say "PRONGER", look at this:
| Corsi% | Shot% | Goal% | OZ% | |
| w/ Pronger | 50.4% | 53.4% | 57.0% | 50.5% |
| w/o Pronger | 50.9% | 52.5% | 60.2% | 44.7% |
For the 2010-11 season, where the shot sample was larger without Chris Pronger than with him, Matt Carle started in the offensive zone less often, controlled play better (and remember how terrible the Flyers Corsi was without Pronger? Yeah, not Matt Carle), and had a higher goal percentage (50 GF v. 33 GA) without Pronger than he did with Pronger (38 GF v. 30 GA).
Matt Carle was an elite defenseman in the NHL this past season. He was even better without Pronger than he was with Pronger this past season. So, yeah.
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We may not agree on Bryz but you outdid yourself here. Good show Geoff.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
I DO accept Ilya Bryzgalov as my savior!! Truly I do.
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 20, 2011 10:03 AM EDT reply actions
I’m going to Alaska in nine days. Woot!
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
I DO accept Ilya Bryzgalov as my savior!! Truly I do.
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 20, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe working on the Grading the Flyers series will result in more positive posts to make people happy? You boys only got 8 of them done before you stopped over a month ago.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 20, 2011 10:15 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, the offseason madness kinda took over. It’s weird now because it’s like “well, how do we balance looking towards next season with looking back towards a team that doesn’t even exist anymore.”
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 20, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
When a tornado (or tornader in some parts) hits a house the owners don’t worry about all the things that were wrong or right with the house before the tragedy. The move on and hope for the best.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
I tend to agree.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 20, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
But does that really mean we should abandon grading the guys who will still be here next year? It’s somewhat happier content than the rest of what we’ve had.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 20, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough. But Pros & Cons mixed is happier than only Cons.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 20, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. It’s not like it’s that many guys anyway, heh. We can certainly do that. The next few weeks are gonna be slim on things to write about anyway.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 20, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Can anyone link me to where I can find Corsi numbers so I can study them on my own time? Google is giving me nothing
"Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"
by PraiseMartyMoose on Jul 20, 2011 10:45 AM EDT reply actions
He was elite ok I admit it but I’d swap him for Schenn, Yandle or Hedman
by ryanitus on Jul 20, 2011 10:57 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Hedman’s contract is up this year isn’t it? Man that would be a nice signing in the offseason. Homer look his way please.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
I DO accept Ilya Bryzgalov as my savior!! Truly I do.
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 20, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
You think he gets anything less than $5.5 million?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
in Lana from Archer’s voice: “Nope”
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 20, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably not
But I dare to dream….
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
"Some might give head coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney plenty of credit for guiding the Coyotes to two straight playoff berths amid franchise foibles – and they deserve much of it – but Bryzgalov was far and away the team’s most valuable player." - NBC Sports
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 20, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, okay. Just curious. $5.5m is an admittedly arbitrary number, and he could easily come in below that. I think I’ll wait until Doughty’s contract to attempt a Hedman guess.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I would think Doughty would have to come in somewhere between 5 to 5.5 but everything I’ve read is that he’s expecting more than that (which he may be worth it but that’s nuts if Yandle gets 5.25…to me they are equal in terms of value.)
I’m glad you highlighted Carle because so many people were ragging on him at home late in the year. I was guilty of it a few times for sure.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
"Some might give head coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney plenty of credit for guiding the Coyotes to two straight playoff berths amid franchise foibles – and they deserve much of it – but Bryzgalov was far and away the team’s most valuable player." - NBC Sports
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 20, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh gosh. I can only hope so. James Wisniewski got that. James. Wisniewski! I’ve seen enough of his “I’m a top defensman, really!” act in Anaheim to shake my head at the whole thing.
To get a 5-5.5 cap hit on Doughty, there would have to be a good number of years and a great deal of cap bending, I would think. Not sure if he would agree to that without a NTC. And Lombardi hates NTCs. So. 6.5-7 range currently seems more likely.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Wisniewski was UFA, though. His leverage changes everything. I think 5.5 is too optimistic but I don’t think his contract is going to reflect Wisniewski’s.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Right, but apparently some execs around the league (see #7) think contracts like that point to cap-raise-induced salary inflation, and will be a factor in the negotiations of big RFAs like Weber. I can hope otherwise, but suspect that’s true.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I don’t really agree with the conclusions there. I think Weber was in that ballpark anyway, and Suter should be. I don’t think Rinne will or should command 6.
Maybe GMGM spoiled me, but the Alzner deal was a real eye opener. Look at what even loose spending Glen Sather does when you hand him a little CBA leverage. Stamkos got less than Ovechkin in the inflated market. I’m positive GMs use comparable contracts when they negotiate deals, but I highly doubt Wisniewski’s is going to be a comparable. I’d think Mike Green, Duncan Keith, and even Yandle will be more likely comparables. Those work in LAK’s favor, but I do think Doughty will get more money than any of those deals.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Mmm. I think Alzner’s case is much different. Weber and Doughty are cornerstones. As much as I don’t like it, I think they have more leverage than ordinary RFAs.
Alzner also caved kinda early. I guess he wanted it over with?
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Stamkos got less than Ovechkin in the inflated market.
Also — do you think $7.5 was a major discount? Sure he could get more if he were an UFA, but I don’t see much sacrifice. Which is fine, because it’s what he’s worth, but you know what I mean.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I think the Stamkos v. Ovechkin point is simply that the inflated market doesn’t guarantee a rise in cap hit. And I agree.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Stamkos had that dip in production on his record, and a later onset, so I don’t put him on 106 pt rookie year Ovechkin level yet. But OK.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I also don’t think Wisniewski is a direct comparable, in case that wasn’t absolutely clear. I just think that the money being thrown around on lesser players is nuts. And the rising cap means everyone knows there’s more room to spend on RFAs. It’s no guarantee (of course), but I’d rather have seen reason prevail in the UFA market than what actually came about.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Reason will never prevail on the UFA market because of economics.
I don’t think the RFA and UFA markets are the same. And, FWIW, the NHL CBA and arbitration both agree.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Of course not, but there are degrees of craziness.
You could see the low supply/high demand situation coming a long a time ago. I still have to factor in guys like Howson fearing for their jobs, and owners like Pegula being giddy with their new toys to driving things to even more unreasonable levels.
And, FWIW, the NHL CBA and arbitration both agree.
Sigh. I’ve never said otherwise. I’ve only said that I suspect the craziness could influence key RFA negotations. The kind of RFAs who, if they hold out, affect a team’s contender status significantly. And owners tend to care about selling seats.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Even if you agree that AO is better than Stamkos, which I do think, AO signed his deal three years ago. The cap has gone up a bunch since then. Geoff is right that my point was related to the inflated cap necessarily inflating contracts.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I think that a long $100MM contract was kinda nuts, but it was inked before the cap-bending trend, was it not? And he had accomplished a hell of a lot more by his third year. I think if you’re going to compare cap hits, you have to consider what era the contract was signed in, and how bold the GM in question is.
AO had an owner and GM who believed in his talent, and seemed less concerned about the cap at the time. In actual salary, he gets $8 million a year in the first part of his contract, Stamkos gets $7M.
AO is just one example, which seems to be the exception cap-hit wise, so I guess I’m missing the point. But I don’t think the inflated cap is guaranteed to not affect the RFAs this summer or the next. We will have to see.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Neither one of them have the decreasing tails, though. Both of them were more honest contracts than the recent varieties.
I don’t even think we disagree all that much. I think Doughty is looking at around 6 million. I think 7 is probably too high given the relative bargaining power. We just disagree on the process and (I think) comparables.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I think we’re pretty much on the same page, yeah. I just get long winded when I’m interested in a topic. :) The realm of Doughty speculation is nerve wracking, but also fun.
The other point in my line of thinking is the term—if you ask players to give up UFA years, the market starts to matter. The other variables players can ask for concessions on are NMC/NTCs and term. I think Stamkos won on those last two fronts. Then again, I just read something by Brooks which indicated Sather is betting that the next CBA will raise the RFA ages. That would be a biggie!
Crosby’s has a bit of cap lowering, but just a smidge. Those are honorable contracts. Ovie’s is outmoded compared to some of the ridiculous things that happen now. TB got a nice cap hit and Stamkos can hit free agency at 26 for a bigger potential payday. Plus, staying in TB was more important to him than money. If he wanted, he and his agent could have said things that might have raised the potential for an offer sheet. Instead they kept repeating that he wanted to stay put, and there was never any truth that he requested a trade. Of course, there are solid economic reasons that no offer sheet came in, but that was nice. Alzner was a good guy there, too.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I’m real interested to see if the RFA age increases, or if the compensation return increases. I’d rather the former since nobody offer-sheets anyway. I bet the players fight hard against that, though, and the owners already want to roll back the cap. What are they going to give in return?
Yeah, buying UFA years does bring the UFA market into the question, but that means a 5+ year deal for Doughty. Do you think that’s what he’s looking at?
Obviously, this is all speculation.
I have no idea — but I know that’s what I’d want if I were a talented young player. One report had him willing to sign a 9 year deal, but only with a NTC kicking in as soon as it could. That was a while ago, though. I’m always willing to entertain the ideas served up in the press, but I realize negotiations can change pretty quickly.
I think Stamkos is betting that the RFA age won’t be increased. He specifically mentioned that the NHLPA was stronger now in that conference call.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Alzner is clearly not in the same pay grade, but he’s been on the top pair for the Caps all year. Money changes, leverage doesn’t. Weber is different because he has arbitration rights, Doughty doesn’t. Don’t underestimate how much that matters. Doughty will get more money than Alzner, but his only extra leverage comes from the increased chances he gets an offer sheet, which are clearly pretty low.
Alzner didn’t sign for two weeks after he had a chance for offer sheets. He signed just hours before his QO expired. I wouldn’t call that caving. His options were: sign the QO and go to arbitration next year, sign the two year deal, or not play in the NHL next season.
Obviously, this is all speculation.
Alzner’s good, but he’s not a captain, an Olympian, a Norris nominee, or a superstar (at least yet). Not the same effect if he holds out and skips an NHL season.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I’d like too see us swing a deal for Zach Bogosian. We could use a young cornerstone defenseman.
by ryanitus on Jul 20, 2011 5:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Strictly talent wise, I would too. I think anyone would be crazy to disagree with that.
Carle is older, and unlikely to repeat his 1.37 Pts/60. But he costs less and is still damn good.
So, YAY! Matt Carle is awesome!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, how is the NHL reshaping?
Carle is “Older” relevant in the conversation? Where are prime Defencemen years heading? I believe statistically Eric had Forwards at 25-29 or so being “prime” years. And I thought D-men were in a bracket higher, possibly higher than the goalies as well… I don’t personally know.
Lastly is Carle the type of Defencemen that can be sustainable at a high level of play into his late 30’s (10 or so years)?
personally
I think the Devils and Kovalchuk should now sue the NHL for age discrimination. They’re essentially saying he CAN’T play until he’s 44.
Go Devils
by FrankG929 on Aug 9, 2010 5:15 PM PDT
These are good questions.
Either way, the point is to show success in 10-11. I don’t think Matt Carle would even say he’ll be better than those guys over the next 5-10 years. But he’ll be cheaper, and he won’t be much worse than he was this year. Which was pretty damn good.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
This is probably Orange tinted glasses but I say we are still top 5 D core minus Pronger and back in the conversation for #1 with him healthy.
personally
I think the Devils and Kovalchuk should now sue the NHL for age discrimination. They’re essentially saying he CAN’T play until he’s 44.
Go Devils
by FrankG929 on Aug 9, 2010 5:15 PM PDT
Eh. Trying to figure that out would be rather difficult. If they aren’t top-5, they’re still top-10, which isn’t a big difference. So, I don’t disagree.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I still believe firmly that all of the Carle hate lies completely in his playoff performance.
Boo to bandwagon playoff spectators.
He was amazing all season long, and looked bad in the playoffs… since those are the last thing that happened everyone is grading their “OMG MAKE HIM TRADE BATE!” shouts based on a sample size of less than 15 games.
personally
I think the Devils and Kovalchuk should now sue the NHL for age discrimination. They’re essentially saying he CAN’T play until he’s 44.
Go Devils
by FrankG929 on Aug 9, 2010 5:15 PM PDT
Pretty much everyone looked bad in the playoffs, aside from a few.
But yeah, Carle was great during the regular season.
When they got the rights to Bryz, I thought he was definitely going to be traded to make cap room for his signing, not that I wanted him to. I just thought he would be one of the ones to go.
Pretty much everyone looked bad in the playoffs, aside from a few.
But it’s all the goalies’ fault! And Carle! And Carter! They SUCK!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
JVR and Giroux
and Danny? Would those be the three stars of the playoffs?
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
"Some might give head coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney plenty of credit for guiding the Coyotes to two straight playoff berths amid franchise foibles – and they deserve much of it – but Bryzgalov was far and away the team’s most valuable player." - NBC Sports
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 20, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I would object to Danny only because he was so brutal (plus minus sucks, but I think 7 goals, 9 points, minus-7 conveys my point quickly) but JVR and Giroux, yeah.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That definitely kept me from putting his name in the title. I leaned a little towards Coburn too because in a couple of games he was really throwing his weight around. Hard to really pick out a solid 3rd star for me.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
"Some might give head coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney plenty of credit for guiding the Coyotes to two straight playoff berths amid franchise foibles – and they deserve much of it – but Bryzgalov was far and away the team’s most valuable player." - NBC Sports
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 20, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I can’t think of a #3 star off the top of my head. It’s tough to spot the guys who carried their stellar play against Buffalo into the Boston series.
Richards, Versteeg, Boucher, Zherdev, and a handful of others had rather impressive first rounds. I don’t think any of them repeated their performance against Boston.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I give a lot of them credit for playing through the pain but hindsight makes it easy to wish that Mikey would’ve gotten his wrist worked on back in October when it first started bothering him. I hate playing the injury card as an excuse but we were a mess down the stretch.
Thanks a lot Select-A-Seat! Now I'm in 122!
"Some might give head coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney plenty of credit for guiding the Coyotes to two straight playoff berths amid franchise foibles – and they deserve much of it – but Bryzgalov was far and away the team’s most valuable player." - NBC Sports
by Flyers_Section_121 on Jul 20, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Down the stretch, the problem was Pronger’s injury, as Eric so beautifully showed in that link. I’m willing to say Richards’ season was hampered by the injury, but it could also have been how the coaches used him, who he played with, the absence of Gagne for the first time in his career, and his rotating wingers, but he played well against Buffalo, and I am known to hate intangibles, so…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to see Zherdev return, potentially more ice time for him with Richards and Carter gone and really he stepped up towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. Besides 16 goals is nothing to slouch about.
by ryanitus on Jul 20, 2011 5:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Damnit, Detweiler!
Your obsession with statistics has lead me to start analyzing my life in with similar percentages! For example, I followed my dreams with about 70% which leaves my pride corsi at .540, which in this case is actually pretty low. When reading this article, my Understanding/60 was relatively high at .79, which is attributed to the effectiveness of your argument. However, my Stubbornness Corsi is extremely high at .790, so your argument only got through at about 81%. Still, quite the eye opening piece here, Detweiler.
by RH16 on Jul 20, 2011 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I started legitimatly doing this around December last year. Working in sales I got really fed up with false praise thrown on people in certain departments that were fed softball assignments and customers.
I started tracking a variation of OZStart% to CorsiRel in my own head based on store position and senior management handoffs.
I live a sad sad life. But at least I don’t work in sales anymore.
personally
I think the Devils and Kovalchuk should now sue the NHL for age discrimination. They’re essentially saying he CAN’T play until he’s 44.
Go Devils
by FrankG929 on Aug 9, 2010 5:15 PM PDT
I love being in sales. The sale is the Cup. All the numbers don’t mean shite if you don’t make the sale.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
@boknows71
Broke into education tech assistance.
More computer time, less pressure. Neither is where I ultimatly want to be but even at hitting bonuses every month its nice to know I don’t /have/ to hit a bonus to make the same amount of money.
personally
I think the Devils and Kovalchuk should now sue the NHL for age discrimination. They’re essentially saying he CAN’T play until he’s 44.
Go Devils
by FrankG929 on Aug 9, 2010 5:15 PM PDT
My view of the world is very dependent on what I’ve been doing lately. A few summers ago, I was doing a lot of work with guidance algorithms, and caught myself thinking them through in my head while navigating a kayak. And then last weekend I played a lot of Portal, so this week at work I keep catching myself looking at walls to see which ones I can put a portal on and how I can use it to get where I want to go. I need help.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Geoff helped me overcome my own confirmation bias some time ago. While my memories still insist Carle was only “good” defensively, when he got control of the puck he was excellent at getting the play up ice and helping things happen for us in a positive way.
I’m now wondering if the playoffs are coloring my Matt Carle defense bias. Hm.
I’m interpreting at this article with a “And don’t you forget it!” feeling. Thanks Geoff!
Often wrong, but never in doubt.
by A Flyers Phamily on Jul 20, 2011 12:51 PM EDT reply actions
What really bothers me is that despite a rough patch in a brutal playoff against a team that simply put it all together at the right time, we’d be talking about how clutch Carle is at crunch time. He really stepped it up in last years playoffs, and came through with some much needed offense when we were battling from behind, but people either aren’t aware of that, are predisposed to disliking the guy, or just have short memories. I really can’t take the Carle cirticizers seriously because they have had him on the shopping block for 3 seasons straight. It seems a little like the “Trade Carter” camp, where if you really get down to it, it’s driven by a “bird in the bush” mentality where that “other player” is always better than the one we have, and they focus on “who could we trade that we could get some value for?” and it keeps coming back to Carle, which says something by itself.
All anyone could say about his past performance was that he owed everything to Chris Pronger, whereas this year, when he was good without Pronger much of the season, all anyone can talk about is how he blew a handful of plays in a series where the entire team seemed to be in a coma and the team was going to lose badly no matter what he did. Nobody ever seems to leave any room open to the possibility that Pronger is able to play his game up because Carle complements him and provides support for the type of game he feels comfortable playing, but in terms of defensive partnerships, that is the number one thing. As Pronger has gotten older and lost a half of a step, especially whilst battling back from injuries, Carle has done a lot to ease his re-entry, with his speed and understanding of the types of plays Pronger wants to try and make.
It’s a long standing tradition in Philly to pick a single defenseman and single him out for every mistake, no matter how trivial.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
haha, happy to be of service.
If you want to say Carle was merely “good” defensively, I won’t object. haha
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Aw, my boy Yandle looks nice, too!
Like that you focused on goals + primary assists. Carle is awesome. Well done.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Thank you.
I prefer to show how the Pts/60 can be misleading every since Eric showed A2’s as unsustainable. They shouldn’t be discounted entirely, but I think I’m going to stick with the G+A1/60 for awhile now.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I almost put “Take secondary assists out and he looks even better” into my Yandle advocacy, but I’d already bored everyone to death with my argument. I hate it when that happens.
Anyway, don’t let anyone tell you guys you’re not doing this blogging thing right. ‘Cause you are. Analysis means you aren’t guaranteed to like the conclusions.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Thanks :)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Great Article
Now the scary waiting game, as if he is that good, he probably won’t be long for this team. :(
But as a huge Carle fan since we traded for him, I am glad he is getting props. I would love him to be an installation on this team for years to come (if he stays this good of course.)
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Fuck the haters!
This is the first flyers site I go to for news and think it is the top source for flyers news.(other than the flyers website) any way I feel though flyers fan remember the bad plays the most for example Matt carle getting turned around and looking like a pylon in the Boston series, or Carter missing the net in game six even though it hit brain campbells shin first.
-bob
by Rrainone on Jul 20, 2011 5:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Now that’s interesting.
When I could manage to look back over the series, that particular moment was something I watched over and over. I thought Campbell miraculously got his stick in front of Carter’s shot and deflected it into Niemi’s shoulder. I’ll never lay the the blame of not getting that goal at Carter’s feet; Campbell killed the shot. I’ll probably hate him forever for that.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.
by A Flyers Phamily on Jul 20, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
:)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 20, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Call
At BSH, last year you guys were FAR too lenient on our team for sucking as hard as they did.
Spagett.
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