Thursday Morning Fly By: There's Hockey Today In Philadelphia
by Travis Hughes on Sep 15, 2011 6:01 AM EDT
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- The annual rookie game against the Capitals (presented by Smoothie King!) is tonight at 5 p.m. at the WFC. Free but necessary tickets are still available, but if you can't make it, the Flyers will have a live stream on their website. We'll have a game thread and we'll try to embed the video here if the Internets will let us.
- Not that I'm not excited that Chris Pronger is on track to be ready to start the season on time, but I also wouldn't mind if he missed time out of an abundance of caution either. He's more important in April and May than in October, ya know? [Philly Sports Daily] [CSN]
- We updated our Organizational Depth Chart last night to include yesterday's Blake Kessel signing, as well as the termination of Joonas Lehtivuori's contract with the club. [BSH]
- Speaking of Kessel... [BSH] [Daily News] [Flyers] [CSN] [Philly Sports Daily]
- Check the new section over on the right sidebar of the site: Training Camp HQ, yall. That'll be updated with all the pertinent links as permitted. You can find our big camp roster, which will be updated daily (or as needed), and the full camp schedule right there at all times until the end of camp.
- Can't say I agree with the idea that Sean Couturier should be the one taking Jody Shelley's roster spot (not yet, at least), but the conclusion here? Well... "Philadelphia's a tough town that likes its tough team. A town tough enough to wait over 35 years between Stanley Cups. What a strange idea it is to wonder if maybe being so tough has held us back." [Flyers Goal Scored By...]
- Tyler Brown is making a bit of a splash in rookie camp. Homer and Lavi like him, so that's cool. [Philly Sports Daily] [CSN]
- Jason Buh-Cash-A-Wuh hopes to make it back to the NHL with the Flyers. You know, even though he's at best the fourth goalie on the depth chart right now. Can't blame a guy for trying. [Philly Sports Daily] Oh, and here's a story about the coach he'll actually play games for this season. [PSD]
- And speaking of goalies, Niko Hovinen has a whoooooole lotta work to do. [NHL.com]
- Ruslan Fedotenko story. Wooooooooo. [Flyers Faithful]
- The Flyers instituted a policy on Tweeting the other day after Zac Rinaldo let it leak that he wouldn't be playing in tonight's rookie game. [Puck Daddy] It seems as though the entire league is following their example, as the NHL has implemented a broad social media policy for the upcoming year. [CBC]
- Jeremy Roenick hurt our feelings. [BSH] [Puck Daddy] [Flyers Faithful]
- With Jeff Carter around, the Blue Jackets are allowed to be patient with prospect Ryan Johansen. [NHL.com] Also, does Carter's presence mean that Rick Nash isn't the best player in Columbus anymore? [The Cannon]
- Finally, this AP story is six days old, but: "As rain washed over him, Todd Fedoruk stumbled on the streets of Tampa in his latest haze, this one ignited by a concoction of booze and cocaine." Worth the read. [AP via National Post]
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Good call
Enjoyed that article about Fedoruk.
"Beauty, eh? Hey, that song's making them fight, eh? Do it again"
by TheBrownieBomber on Sep 15, 2011 6:20 AM EDT reply actions
Philadelphia’s a tough town that likes its tough team. A town tough enough to wait over 35 years between Stanley Cups. What a strange idea it is to wonder if maybe being so tough has held us back
No, it’s not strange. Been saying that for a couple of years. This is like saying in the mid to late 90s, “maybe making our kids finish their dinner before they leave the dinner table is making them fat, or possibly obese”
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 7:43 AM EDT reply actions
I have no problem with tough fighters, but they need to bring another part of the game to the table. Wayne Simmonds can be a 12 goal guy and play 1st team PK, Brash scored 10+ a few times, Carcillo is good for 10+. Players like Shelley don’t do anything but hurt the team
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
Simmonds is more than a 12 goal guy IMO
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably but one must take it with a grain of salt since you love the guy.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Secretly at night I hope him and I can develop a Turk and JD relationship, where i can call him Brown Bear
not gonna lie
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
A straight man can only hope
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
In all seriousness, I like Simmonds as a hockey player, but I also believe he is a very large step for Philadelphia as a sports city. He represents all of the thing hockey fans love in a guy, he’s the total package. He’s also black, and there’s a distinct number of individuals in this city who believe that only white players can be gritty, truculent etc. I’m hoping Simmonds gets these people to outgrow this notion, I also hope he can bring in African American fans, not for revenue, but simply because I believe this is one of the last segregated sports (not by force, just how things have turned out). Simmonds can break this barrier, and with the NBA out for a year, he has the chance to capture the fandom usually reserved for Evan Turner, etc
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
nicely done
you’re joking, i trust
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s a dream of mine to bring hockey to the inner city in an affordable way
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
“The new sheriff is a !”
- mostly for hintzy
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn formatting oddities … there’s supposed to be a “BONG” of a church bell in there at the end.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Hockey is as segregating as it is largely, in my opinion because of the inherent cost of playing the sport. And the fact that it’s a lot easier to go find an open basketball court or baseball field or even football field than it is a hockey rink.
All in all though I agree with you and I hope Simmonds succeeds here, he has the tools and from what I have heard and read, mentality to do well. Hopefully the Philly media and ignorant fans don’t get on his case too quickly, but they probably will.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
This is a good opportunity to bring up the great work done by the Ed Snider Youth Hockey Foundation. Honestly it’s great.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Amen. The guy may be a crotchety old fuck as some may have you believe but he has really done a fantastic job with running that foundation and trying to get the younger community involved and excited about the game.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I wrote a shitty proposal for an English class regarding the potential in Miami regarding the Florida panthers
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
My nephew used to play hockey through his foundation. It would have been impossible for his parents without it. They’ve become priced out since he’s hitting his teens but it was one of the best experiences for him in his young life.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
twitter: @princessblueezy
by kmblue on Sep 15, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think I understand where you’re trying to go with this, but…
He’s also black, and there’s a distinct number of individuals in this city who believe that only white players can be gritty, truculent etc.Has that much of the city really forgotten Brashear’s 3 and a half seasons in Philadelphia?
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 15, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Well when you really only have one example for 40 years of existence it’s easy to get forgotten/overlooked.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I can see that, it just strikes me as odd to say as if nobody in the city believes it can happen; since it’s not like he was only here for a couple of months. He was a Flyer for 5 years worth of calendar time since his time in Philly spanned the lockout. And while Emery didn’t get into much of that behavior while he was here, he certainly had a past reputation for truculence and put boxers on his mask to appeal to that aspect of Philadelphia. The wording of his original comment made it sound like Simmonds would be the first player ever to try to break that stereotype, instead of being the latest example that reinforces the fact that it can happen.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 15, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I think what CCB was saying was more that people may appreciate Simmonds more than say Brash because Simmonds has a lot more skill than Brash ever did. As rowdy and violent as the media would paint us all to be, I think the majority of fans prefer the goals over the goons and that is where Simmonds and Brash differ. And Emery didn’t really get enough time here to prove anything to anyone. Which is a shame.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Rex is correct is the context of what i said
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I agree that they’re different and SImmonds has more skill, no disagreement there. I was only confused by wording of the part I blockquoted.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 15, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Emery….I miss him
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Giving up isn't an option
by Cillo stache on Sep 15, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of, I see you haven’t joined Second City Hockey yet.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I’m hesitant to do so. I dont know if I ever will
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Giving up isn't an option
by Cillo stache on Sep 15, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure how I feel about it yet.
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Giving up isn't an option
by Cillo stache on Sep 15, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Claude Vilgrain
Sandy McCarthy
Donald Brashear
Ray Emery
Wayne Simmonds.
That’s 5 out of a total 70 NHL players, or 7%. Being only 3% of the teams (1 of 30), that ain’t horrible as you make it seem.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m talking about guys that have played on the Flyers.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
They all played on the Flyers.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
McCarthy played 71 games 98-00, for example.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there’s a stereotype that of the players that are in the NHL, AA’s are known for their fighting (Laraque, Brashear, and there was a guy whose name started with a W, can’t remember him though)
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Joel Ward? Or Peter Worrell? Kevin Weekes?
Mike Grier.
But there are now a lot of skilled African American Hockey players…Iginla, my favorite Kane, Simmonds, Okposo and that jerkoff in Montreal who I will not name.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Worrell was a goon, so him
I grew up on Freddy Brathwaite being the only AA in the NHL I could name. It’s gotten a lot better now
Kevin Weeks, Carolina backup, good times
Times are better, and I hope newer fans see how the sport is diversifying (even if its baby steps)
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Grant Fuhr. Kevin Weekes. Anson Carter. Sandy McCarthy. Pokey Reddick. These are the guys I grew up watching.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ice_hockey_players_of_black_African_descent
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
um Jerome Ignila comes to mind 1st and foremost when speaking of black or African American NHL players.
Really? I think of Evander Kane.
Not only is he going to be awesome, he also has a Batman Villian-sounding name.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Honestly,
As a black fan of hockey, the easiest way to bring more black fans to hockey is for more black kids to play. It’s a simple numbers game.
And there is a pretty strong but small black fanbase for the Flyers in the city that got bigger after the Cup run in 09-10.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
twitter: @princessblueezy
Well you can keep true to Scrubs and just flash to daydreams about it all the time. :-p
But seriously, that would be awesome.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Scrubs is an awesome show. My friend calls me brown bear cause of it, though I am quite white. I have those scrubs-esqe flash backs all the time, they brighten a day
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Giving up isn't an option
by Cillo stache on Sep 15, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I have those scrubs-esqe flash backs all the time, they brighten a day
Me too. It’s kinda inconvenient in meetings though, I tend to miss important stuff. Like when Dr. Cox asked JD to “pick up my son from daycare” but JD missed it because he was daydreaming.
It is quite possibly my favorite show.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I went with the minimum stats I expect. But the point was that All the fighters that winning teams play today have skill sets above just taking punches to the face.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
What a strange idea it is to wonder if maybe being so tough has held us back
This is ludicrous and a boring excuse for the real reasons we have not won a cup in over 35 years. If just about every team that has won a cup didn’t employ a fighter and skate gritty, tough players I would say there was merit. But since teams that win the cups have a mixture of all types of players we have to say the reasons we haven’t won are, poor overall talent levels, goaltending and most of all opportunistic luck.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
poor overall talent levels: possibly due to the FO searching for certain less talented players that have “grit”
opportunistic of luck: is it fairer to say that those more talented in the scoring department have potentially better luck, than say, dan carcillo? Is Sedin more susceptible in terms of luck scoring wise, than say, dan carcillo?
see where I’m getting at?
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
In past years the drop off in talent beyond the first line or two has been to great to put the opposition away in a series. Having grit is not a deterrent to having hockey skills, see Detroit and guys like Cleary, McCarty, Maltby. Dumb as shit acquisitions like Hawerchuk, Oates, Coffey, etc. Believing that overachieving is franchise success such as the 97, 85 and 87. Those teams were completely out of the league of the Oilers. The 97 line up is an actual farce compared to the Red Wings line up, they should have been swept. And opportunistic luck means the weird shit that seems to happen against the Flyers and for the opposition such as Claude Lemieux hitting a 60 foot slapshot that goes over Hextal shoulder, Leon Stickle missing a 6 foot offsides call, Bernie Parent losing his eyesight by an errant stick managing to get through a 1/2 whole in his mask, Lindbergh, Giroux breaking Staal’s stick in overtime, Carter on two occasions having the open side of a net to change the balance of a series, etc.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
In past years the drop off in talent beyond the first line or two has been to great to put the opposition away in a series.
Then why was there so much talk over the past two years about our great scoring depth? It’s entirely possible that the MSM is just idiots when they said that, but I heard it a lot.
And opportunistic luck means the weird shit that seems to happen against the Flyers and for the oppositionIf you think that sort of “weird shit” only happens against the Flyers and never happens to anyone else, or even that it happens to the Flyers significantly more than anyone else, you’re out of your freakin gourd. It’s sports. It’s unpredictable. Shit happens. And it happens to everyone. There’s no use whining about “bad luck.”
Also, in your original comment, you blame goaltending (shocker) for the lack of a Cup win. Do I need to trot out the list of good goalies we’ve had since Hextall again that everybody seems to conveniently forget about when they want to blame it all on the goalies? I’m not saying every guy we’ve put between the pipes should have won the Vezina, but it hasn’t been a revolving door of worthless scrubs either.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
In past years the drop off in talent beyond the first line or two has been to great
A) Salery Cap
B) Besides Vancouver, can you name another team with a better bottom 6? Our 3rd line was JVR/Zherdev, Carter, Giroux for most of the year.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
Anaheim??
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
It is all about TOI who the hell are you going to replace on Flyers to take Jody Shelly’s 6minutes per game of ice with 4th line guys that is going to have any impact on the outcome an entire 82 games season.
Anyone who could have impact wouldn’t be happy with 5 minutes of TOI nor with playing on the 4th line and could become disruptive in the locker room bitching and complain who the hell knows. Jody Shelly role on the this team was to play 5 – 6 minutes, fight the other tough guys so Hartnell or Lappy wouldn’t have to and be happy about a good team guy in the locker-room.
Try to put that role on Carcillo. He played like shit last year with his ice time going down from over 11 minutes per game to just about 7. Is Carcillo more skilled than Shelly certainly he is without a doubt. But who is more effective in a limited role of < 10 minutes per game.
Jody Shelly 2.00 GA/60, +/- 0
Carcillo team worse 3.00 GA/60, +/- -14.
I know plus/minus is flawed but that is a big difference. Also in 2009-2010 Carcillo played against tougher qualcomp and was a team leader in GA/60 with a 1.74 and had a plus minus of +14. Carcillo is simply better when he plays more and I am sure Shelly would look worse the more he plays so given the TOI for that roster spot Shelly makes sense. You also don’t want to bring up a young guy from the Phantoms and only play 6 minutes per game either that isn’t going to work out well in terms of developing.
I still don’t get all the Jody Shelly hating anyone with significant more skill would be getting more TOI and most like replacing most like Andreas Nodl’s 13 minutes per game not Jody Shelly’s 6 minutes.
Tom “Tostito” Sestito would be thrilled to take those minutes. That’s not your point – I get it – but there’s hope that Sestito scores more than Girlyname.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
btw: the hockey EASHL is extremely fun. I encourage you all to try it out with friends or with others on here
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 8:54 AM EDT reply actions
Im surprised no one brought up this question yet, but if Couturier makes the team, which center has to play wing? Briere, Giroux, and Schenn would take up the top 3, and I don’t want Couturier playing on the 4th line.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
I guess I should finish. Also, I think Couturier is too good at being “shut-down” to not develop him at center. I guess Schenn could be the easiest to move to wing, maybe Giroux.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
Have we used Giroux at wing on a line before? I think he would do well with it, but I have no idea why. It just seems like it would work.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
He started at wing. And he played a “shift” center spot with Carter last year(but Carter took more faceoffs because of his winning %)
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
Ah, okay. Like I said, my brain is not really functioning yet.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I just think Girouxs passing abilities are too great NOT to have at center. Schenn is still young enough where he can develop at wing still.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
Didn’t Schenn play some wing?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the team likes Briere at center. His PPG are almost double at center then they are at wing.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
I agree, but isn’t he the weakest of the three on the draw or am I totally wrong?
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I dunno, he’s got a mean crosscheck when the puck drops.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I dunno, some of Picasso’s stuff is pretty abstract and not easily recognizable. The refs seem to have no trouble identifying Briere’s artistry.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yeah that’s true. I was going more for the ugly and absurd factor so much as easily recognizable. Most of the penalties he commits are just ridiculous.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Given our contract-limit situation, is it even possible for Couturier to make the team at this point?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Unless we make more drastic and possibly facepalm-inducing moves.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I’m good with stashing a ton of shitty players in the AHL like Leights, Walker and even Jody if possible.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Still doesn’t get rid of their contracts though.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Waiver wire wonders? Maybe the Isles or Panthers will get in on those hot hot commodities.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
I’m for trading to the ‘Yotes. Send Walker, Leighton, and Hartnell for Boedker and Oystrick and picks or ’future considerations’. Leaves you with one less contract and $3.8 extra million to play. Of course, I dunno that the Phoenix front office would bite … especially given they already have like 5 AHL level goalies … perhaps Florida would play ball and send up Versteeg (back again?) with Oberg or someone; not as much salary space, but you still shed the contract. They could use Leighton at the moment, and Walker is better than either of their bottom pairing d-men.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 15, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Working based on who we have in the system and who we’re pretty sure is a lock for the roster, demoting Shelley doesn’t get us that far. Estimating Couturier’s cap hit after bonuses at $2.5M, I can still only make it happen by sending Shelley down and replacing him with either Wellwood or Rinaldo (nobody making 900K or more fits), and demoting Bob in favor of Backlund. That’s with Lappy on LTIR… There are other possibilities if you’re willing to move around people who we expect to make the roster, but it wouldn’t be easy.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 15, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Was literally about to say the exact same thing. Waiving Shelley and LTIRing Lappy gives you $1.8M in cap space if you have Rinaldo or Sestito as your 13th forward, and you would still have to lose a contract.
by hebrew hammer on Sep 15, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, I don’t expect Couturier to make the squad this year anyway. He would have to absolutely dominate over anyone in the top 6. Next year we lose Shelley, Leighton, and a few others and that will clear some room.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
I’ve already said numerous times I don’t see any way he makes it, and that I think it would be better for his development for him not to make it. I was just trying to document the notion that we really can’t make him fit without doing something drastic.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 15, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Contract limitations or not, Couturier should not be with the Flyers at all this season.
Opposing Ilya Bryzgalov as Philadelphia Flyers' goalie since June 23, 2011.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Sep 15, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
That too. Another year to develop will only do good things for him.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Possibly two years. Let’s not forget he’s only 19 in December.
Opposing Ilya Bryzgalov as Philadelphia Flyers' goalie since June 23, 2011.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Sep 15, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
commenting explosion
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 10:05 AM EDT reply actions
Most notable for the quote from Hartnell:
“It’s exciting,” forward Scott Hartnell said. “You get that feeling that everyone is fighting for jobs. It’s going to be a competitive camp”
Everyone pray for something fishy up Holmgren’s sleeve … like moving Scotty himself somehow.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
Where's Shaun??
I need him….
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
...
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
I haven’t been on this site in a long minute. I figue his baseball job is over now, so I have no idea.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
Not over til October
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 15, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I’m saying she’s overly happy today. Not everyone jumps into stereotypical conclusions like you :D
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
Maybe you are, but probably not since there isn’t anything in her comment that you can possibly read joy in to. Stress, sure, anxious, sure, in a panic, possibly, calm but in need, possibly, super happy…just not there. Sorry bud.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Not saying you can’t be happy, but when someone is asking for someone else because they need them for something, do you ever read an over abundance of happiness in to their statement?
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I suppose not. I’m also not a particularly happy person, and I can be a bit of an instigator, but mainly in good fun. Fun to me….I felt the need to clarify..
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Your always so grumpy. Does nothing bring you pleasure in life haha.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
Your like an internet troll, but instead of getting people worked up and angry, you just want to make everyone as depressed as you are haha
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
I actually find Don pretty enlightening.
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It should be noted, I bribed CCB with bobble heads to say this.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
no, I’m serious. I’d probably hang out with you if I knew you.
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Open Ice. I should be back on the ice next week, I’ll get together another BSH game. Unfortunately it will bring me no joy.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
When’s open ice. I’ll make sure the date is open, even if it’s just to drive and say hello
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to check in to open dates, I haven’t been to the rinks in over a month.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I hate how this turned into a CCB flirt session when it was originally a Sophiejo flirt session. #jealous #manstealer
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Yeah, I’m a straight dude honey
This is simply man appreciation
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
oh….. im turned on then…
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
get over it hon, there was an entire Oprah episode about this, and tons of online filth…
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
I ain’t worried about it
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
this is where the ‘fun for me’ part comes it. lets just leave it out. where is shaun? :(
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
CCB
I honestly thought you were the girl with the Mia Farrow hair cut. sigh…
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
explain, inquiring minds want to know
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I was making a joke. You could read confused two ways, you know, either confused with the conversation, or my sexuality. I was trying to play along, but I’m not funny.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Now im super confused! I was making a funny about you and ccb’s bromance turning me on. EXXE of whomever(rspctfly) said they were ‘scared’ so i dropped it.
CCB
I thought I had an awsome convo with you last season where you posted a pic of you and you had the Mia Farrow cut, but seeing as you are male….forget it :(
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
I know, I was just referencing our budding bromance potentially taking the next step. Like I said, I’m not funny.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
You could be my wingman any time
preferably left, im right handed
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
You realize that if he was your wing man you’d be fucked right?
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
In NHl 12 I’ve called my RW EASHL player Jagr bombs
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
one of my favorite gaming experiences was playing with my buddies on a cyber hockey team, not gonna lie
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I really don’t play video games online, mostly due to the ps3’s connection via wireless is horrific.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
could be wireless router hes using. PS3 is a rather dependable wireless receiver
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah mine is atrocious. I have a 150 foot wire that I could use but it would have to be run from upstairs to downstairs and I would pretty much only be able to use it when the wife isn’t home lest I have to listen to her complain.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
where is youre cable router, and is there a possibility of making it a gaming station with a table and a tv?
thats what i did
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
My router is up in my office with my computer. The PS3 is downstairs in the family/wreck room.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
what else do you use the ps3 for?
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
No I have my computer for that. I don’t pay for porn. That’s just crazy talk.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
hahah…i must have missed this reply. I dont pay for porn either, i know better..
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
thanks…if you’re talking to me.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Indeed (click the up button to find out who a person replied to). Ed is already on that list.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
theres a 100 dollar model sony blu ray player that has the potential to be netflix if you buy the 70 dollar wireless router that sony needs, or you could use your laptop as a wireless receiver
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Laptop as a wireless receiver? How does one do this?
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
you teach your laptop to share its internet. I’ve been doing it for years with my laptop since i dont have wireless with my xbox. Just youtube PC laptop wireless receiver ps3
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to be confused with a man-crush, bromance, or even guy love between two guys. All are similar, but distinctly different.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yes, you clearly nailed it, I’m so unhappy with my life it has sunken me in to a pit of depression. My only hope at this point is that someone comes along and beats me to death with a metal baseball bat and puts me out of my misery…
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Billy Batts everyone
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Pesci’s best. God i love that movie, so much
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
My favorite movie of all time.
I was just watching Casino the other day. Also a good one.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I never looked at the sticky bandits the same ever again after Sharon Stone and Pesci
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Hahahaha Sharon Stone played the role and lock of a crack whore perfectly.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
At least you admit it
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
haha you are a douch.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
What up?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 15, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been known to. Haha. What are you illustrating?
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 15, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I write books for children. I wanted to approach my agent with an illustrator this time.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
or better put, i’ve written a few childrens books. My agent thinks he can sell two of the four, and its more lucrative for me to have an illustrator. If one is provided, its less lucrative. Its almost completly not worth it. If im honest…
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
I’m in.
I did a coloring book for our team earlier this year. Don and Geoff each got one, ask them as references.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 15, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeahhhhh!!! Is that e-mail good to reach you? I hesitated sending one this morning. I have another meeting next week, I will keep you posted.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
It’s very nice, he did an excellent job. I was very proud of him.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Absolutely.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 15, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting article on the Flyers 5 biggest player questions heading into the year:
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I’m looking forward to Simmonds the most.
We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!
Good game, Lets eat
yeah we are
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Front loaded contracts for everyone!
Welcome to the Pegula-dollars club, Tyler Myers!
Original member of the Mike Weber bandwagon!
To make up for lost time, the Sabres signed six seasons worth of front-loaded cap skirting contracts in one week.
This one's for M
I went through every goal in the league in the last two years and marked off how many met his definition of clutch: scored in OT or the last 10 minutes of regulation, to tie the game or give their team the lead. The results:
- 7.1% of all goals are “clutch”. So you might expect a 30-goal scorer to have 2 clutch goals per year, on average.
- Carter had one clutch goal in 2010-11, 2.8% of his total. He had no clutch goals in ’09-10, 0% of his total.
- Andreas Nodl elevated his game the most in the clutch in ’10-11, with 3 of his 11 goals (27.3%) coming in the clutch.
- Danny Briere had the most clutch goals in ’10-11, with 4. However, he padded his stats with so many unclutch goals that he was just a bit above the league average in clutch percentage.
- Scott Hartnell was the least clutch player in ’10-11. He had the talent to score 24 garbage goals, but never had any when it counted.
Before you read too much into any of this, let’s look at ’09-10, too:
- The year before being the least clutch player on the team, Scott Hartnell was the most clutch, leading the team in both total clutch goals (3) and clutch goal percentage (21.4%). And yet ’09-10 was considered a bad year for him.
- The year before leading the team in clutch goals, Danny Briere had just one in 28 tries (3.6%). For the two-year total, the team’s super-clutch playoff performer lands right at league average.
- Just like Carter, Giroux had one clutch goal in ’10-11 and zero in ’09-10.
And around the league:
- Sidney Crosby is another big choker, with only 3.3% of his goals coming in the clutch.
- Patrick Kane is an even bigger choker, with only 1.6% of his goals coming in the clutch.
- The Caps are full of clutch performers. Ovechkin (6.9%) and Backstrom (7.3%) are right near the league average, while Semin (20% in ’10-11) and Laich (17.1%) are way above average. What a clutch team.
And of course, this wouldn’t be complete without a chart:
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
by Eric T. on Sep 15, 2011 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
took you long enough….
nothing, just thought we’d get off to a GOOD start this season. :)
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Sorry for the delay — I had a few things I wanted to tend to this morning. Like commenting on yesterday’s Fly By and poking people in the eye on Twitter.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
lol…interesting. I just spent the last five minutes gargling my Dr. Pepper. I wont judge you too harshly.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
I was on a mission to piss off a loved one.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Five minutes of gargling seems like a good way to do that.
Though I think you might have done better with three minutes of gargling, followed by spitting the Dr Pepper at them, followed by getting another swig of DP and lather-rinse-repeating.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
And it’s bad for your teeth! Your dentist would not be happy!
Opposing Ilya Bryzgalov as Philadelphia Flyers' goalie since June 23, 2011.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Sep 15, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope that dies,I can’t revisit that whole JVR contract thing anymore with out requiring heavy sedation.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
If you think the JvR discussion was frustrating, you should try discussing the Flyers on Twitter sometime. You’ll appreciate us more.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I won’t talk Flyers on facebook or any social media for that reason.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
It’s even better when limited to 140 characters, and talking to people whose occupation (if not actual knowledge) confers expert status on them.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Patrick Kane is an even bigger choker, with only 1.6% of his goals coming in the clutch.
Except in game 6 of the finals.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
i still have nightmares
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I was kind of hoping his career would take an immediate downturn after that and that he would fade into obscurity.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
i hoped the same for Leighton. I got my wish
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
you guys are so harsh. where’s that one poster who wrote the piece about Shelly and schadenfreude
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
hug the post, that is all
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 15, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
And keep your legs shut.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I see no problem with wishing that the two people primarily responsible for breaking all our hearts would disappear from the hockey world forever. Not like we are wishing physical harm to them. That would classless.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
simmer, i was only referencing, i wish ill on people all the time.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
I am as simmer as simmer can be. I was just responding. I figured the whole topic itself was a bit of a joke so I responded as such.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
This morning I took some Childrens Zyrtec. I’m not myself.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Wow
So I take from this Carter is not clutch. There is no way of course to add a level of clutchness in higher priority games. All jokes aside did you actually look at every game log? How did you do this?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I wrote a script a while back to download all of the NHL play by plays and parse them so I could pull out whatever data I wanted (like Corsi before and after Pronger’s injury, for example).
It just took a couple minutes in a spreadsheet to pull out just the goals from that data and label them clutch or unclutch based on your criteria.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
So you tailored to time of goal? Then what score change was?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Yup, the spreadsheet has a column for time and a column for period, so I pulled out anything that was scored in period 4 or after 10:00 of period 3. And it has columns for the score, so I limited it to goals that tied the game or broke a tie.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
And really I wanted to only dispel the legitimacy of GWG as a stat that means squat. But I would have bet money Crosby was more clutch, it always seems he is in the right place a the right time putting the dagger in you. Ovechkin although team success has eluded him I equate his career so far to Lindros’. Lindros didn’t have much of a team but he got them to places they never deserved to be in the first place.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
How is your definition of a clutch goal less arbitrary than GWG?
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
That’s my biggest problem with the term clutch. How is any goal to tie a game or give your team a lead, not on some level “clutch”? It can be such a broad definition.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Yesterday’s Phillies game kinda points out my problem: Polanco isn’t clutch, because he won the game in the first inning. But he still won the game, so his contribution is inherently meaningful.
If we are being generally reductionist about the “meaning” of goals/RBIs, there’s an inherent contradiction in saying meaning is dependent on timing. Which probably why “meaning” is a stupid measure to use in the first place.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Did he win the game or the defense and pitcher who preserved the game. When a guy wins it in the first the goaltender and d probably are owed the most credit.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Ok, but the goalie and D probably deserve most of the credit for keeping the game tied until 3 seconds left in the game when Player X scores. That reasoning can go both ways.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Both teams goaltenders and defense is a wash, but one guy overshadowed.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Same can be said for the first example. In the first 2 minutes of a Game, Player X overshadowed the rest of the other players. For the remaining 58 minutes, both team’s D and goalies were a wash.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
But the intensity in the first is nowhere near the third. You played Don, it’s balls to the wall with 10 minutes remaining and the best guys can only come off the ice if they have to puke.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I played hard the whole game. My adrenaline is up at any point the game gets intense (it doesn’t matter the period, you should know that) and that isn’t reserved for the last X amount of minutes. I played my best while trying to keep every thing level throughout the game.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
It’s human nature man, not a knock on anyones effort.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
And that human nature is there throughout the game. Intensity during a game is not reserved for the end in close games. I’ve had the first shift of many big games be the most intense feeling I’ve had while playing the sport.
And that’s my issue. You can’t just pick a time point or game scenario where these things happen, it’s too arbitrary, because they can happen at any time.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Okay I know with you guys I need some sort of mathematical back up for my point. Look at shot totals late in the third when a team is down a goal.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
All that proves is style of play. I don’t care about math here, I’m talking about logic. I’m happy to have this conversation without any math what so ever. This is about a logical thought process for me.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
And to not believe it gets way different in the third period of a close game is not being honest.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Yes it is being honest. I already said the most intense I feel during a game is my first shift, during any large momentum swings/lead changes, and towards the end of a close game. I’m admitting it can be different, but I’m also admitting I feel similarly during other portions of the game that don’t fit your time frame.
To say there aren’t other times when intensity kicks up in a similar way is not being honest M! And that’s my damn point.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I totally agree with you, and I totally agree with Don. I don’t think you can distinguish between a goal scored two seconds into a game and with two second left in a game, if the defensive conditions remain constant.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
So your telling me Pronger is just as intense in the first period or up one goal with 5 minutes to play in the 3rd.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
If Pronger is “saving his intensity” for the last 5 minutes of the game and the Flyers get down big as a result, I’m pissed. Ideally, players give 100%, 100% of the time, realistically it doesn’t happen. There are ebbs and flows in the game. It doesn’t really mean anyone is more clutch.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Not saving or slacking but pushing harder.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I disagree, if I ever felt like I wasn’t pushing as hard as I could I was pissed at myself; whether it was the first second or last second of the game.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Well I have played and watched a lot of hockey and tied, up or down one in the third seems a whole lot friggin different.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I usually felt the most intense at the very beginning of big games, during large momentum changes, and during the final minute. So to me, those types of intense feelings can happen at any moment. That’s my point, and why I have a problem with arbitrary definitions of game situations that mean clutch.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
So Crosby wasn’t clutch in the gold medal game or Kane in the Finals or Matteau for the Rangers. Time of the game is definitely a factor in the definition of clutch.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
You can define things in anyway. But without Toews or Perry’s goal, Corsby doesn’t get a chance to score that. That doesn’t mean Toews getting Canada up 1-0 isn’t clutch, and it doesn’t mean that Perry giving Canada a 2-0 lead wasn’t clutch. I’m not saying things can’t be clutch, I’m saying it’s definition it’s far to broad when you try to label a player as clutch.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
But the game was tied up by the other team after those events. So it was a new game with everything on the line.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
But that doesn’t make the “old game” disappear. Those events still happened.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
But matter way less at that point. In sports it’s not how you got there but how you ended.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
That’s a definition that is specific to you. If the goalie and D held up their end of the bargain, Toews & Lu would be Mr. and Mrs. clutch.
If those events didn’t happen, that outcome couldn’t have happened. I chose to look at things that way. you chose to eliminate everything but the very end. I think you’re wrong, you think I’m wrong. All that proves is the damn definition is too broad to have it be anything but arbitrary.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
This is like someone trying to tell me chocolate is better then vanilla or Monet is better then Picasso. It’s perception and that is not definitive.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
It’s perception and that is not definitive.
That’s my damn problem with it, and why I said this:
All that proves is the damn definition is too broad to have it be anything but arbitrary.
This is why your definition is considered arbitrary by Snevik and myself. That’s our whole damn point.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
chocolate is better then vanilla
I’m pretty sure this is proven fact.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Oh my GOD why can’t you people let anyone have an OPINION around here?
I swear, if I said CHOCOLATE was better than VANILLA, half a dozen people would jump on me with spreadsheets PROVING that vanilla is actually better.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
by Eric T. on Sep 15, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How when chocolate is better.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Depends. Chocolate candy, yes. Vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate. As is vanilla cake.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Vanilla cake with chocolate icing is my fav.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Vanilla cake or yellow cake? They’re different.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
For me, white cake. With whipped cream frosting.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Like the latest trend in kids birthday cakes. I like the whipped cream icing also. This is why i’m fat.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Buttercream is actually worse for you. Do you know how many sticks of butter is in that stuff?
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
In the icing? Couldn’t imagine. My wife is an icing snob, butter cream or nothing.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Buttercream is often too sweet for me, which is why I like the whipped cream. It’s lighter. Honestly, I am fine with no icing at all.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I just have to say that I love it here. Yesterday, actresses. Today, cake. Tomorrow….?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Depends. Are we talking diet sploshing? I’m watching my caloric intake.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Well, then you get into the sucralose vs. sugar alcohol debate. Some like Stevia but I think it has an awful aftertaste.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I just stick to the good old fashion sugar and try to watch how much I intake. The substitutes make me sick.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
I can’t, because I have to have sugar in my coffee and to get it as sweet as I like it, I have to put like 2 tablespoons of sugar vs. 2 packets of Ideal.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
My saying used to be: “Make the spoon stand”.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Just seemed like the natural progression after actresses and cake.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
.
Vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
You got it. I don’t like chocolate ice cream much. Of course, I’m not really a big ice cream person, which is unfathomable to my husband, who could eat a half gallon in two days.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Hehehe. My wife dislikes vanilla ice cream (except vanilla bean) and even ice cream that uses a vanilla base with stuff mixed into it. Like cookie dough ice cream. IMO it’s far better with cookie dough or molasses flavored ice cream as the base instead of plain vanilla. I like both, but greatly prefer chocolate. Vanilla ice cream in my house has two purposes: 1) to go on top of pie or 2) for use as a base for fruit milkshakes. But that’s just us. :-)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Just for arguments sake, vanilla is one of the most complex flavors known to man… and chocolate doesn’t taste as well, chocolately, without vanilla added to the preparation.
So technically, the really good chocolate
doesn't exist without vanilla as a backup
singer, and thus chocolate without
vanilla is nothing.
Hahaha, sorry I had to do it, I couldn’t let the thread go by without answering Eric’s call for a serious argument for vanilla.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 15, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
But clutch is entirely arbitrary. And, for me anyway since I’m pretty competitive, I don’t care when in the game it is, I want to score as many goals as possible. Clutch is the last thing on my mind.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Does this hold true for goalies? People seem to think a soft goal can change a game, regardless of when it occurs.
Just probing your intuition on these things.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
But if it happens in the first the team can’t blame the goaltender because they had all game to come back and get over the change. When Leighton let in that goal it was a lack of concentration and intensity on his part. Get the fucking paddle down and close your legs dude it’s basic.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
When Leighton let in that goal it was a lack of concentration and intensity on his part.
So it’s unclutch.
Get the fucking paddle down and close your legs dude it’s basic.
So it’s basic.
Um, that’s an interesting definition of clutch you have there. Be basic, and you’re clutch.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 15, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
No losing basic skills because you forgot to concentrate and keep your edge is what isn’t clutch. It’s easy to fail i those situations, it’s clutch to push past.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
So Leighton “forgot” to concentrate?
You’re now defining clutch to include even more subjective assessments. That’s a terrible idea.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 15, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Well how else do you explain it. Man on man Kane won Leighton lost.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
So is Leights unclutch or Kane Clutch. Some will say one thing, others another; again pointing to the arbitrary nature of this whole idea.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
And I’m not trying to say you are wrong with this whole thing, I’m trying to say with all this variation from person to person, it makes any definition arbitrary. You can’t be wrong here (though I stand by my intensity point) because it’s your opinion, but that’s again what makes it an arbitrary definition.
And I think we all agree that GWG as a stat is a bit silly.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I’m saying Patrick Kane is an NHL star and Michael Leighton is not an NHL goaltender.
Clutch doesn’t enter the equation.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 15, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Their professionals all the same. There is much less separating them then you think.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
Even if true – which, it isn’t. There’s a lot separating them – that gap is not filled with “clutch”.
Pat Kane was credited with a goal that shouldn’t have counted, and you’re calling him clutch. Michael Leighton “forgot” to concentrate, and you’re calling that unclutch.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 15, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That is just it Kane could have pulled off and exited the zone or dumped and pressed but he went for it and finished. Clutchnesss! And seeing as there are only a couple of hundred guys good enough to play in the NHL out of hundreds of millions there isn’t much separating them.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
So there isn’t much separating Chase Utley from Pete Orr?
That’s an incredibly broad statement, kind of like how your definition of “clutch”.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 15, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
But I want 110%!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
This was intended to piss off someone, but I forget if it’s Don or Geoff that hate “110%”. I fail.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Me
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 15, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the idea a guy gets a GWG when he scores the 3rd goal in the first period of a 6-2 shellacking is insulting to me, but clutch goals are way more scarce then I thought and probably more about opportunistic luck then skills. So Carter is just fucking unlucky, I guess!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
AND......
Clutch means to me under the most pressure someone prevails to win. It’s a function of not only skill set but concentration and determination. Missing an open net with 20 seconds to play is an inability to close the deal.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
As taught to us by Burt Reynolds in “The Longest Yard”
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Jesus, how is this not it’s own post? Glad I checked in today to find this gem.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
by George E. Ays on Sep 15, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I debated it for a while, but couldn’t bring myself to write a post that would look to someone who missed the previous converstion like the 987234th statistical treatment debunking clutchness.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
987234 articles means we’re at least 12767 short right now.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
by George E. Ays on Sep 15, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
So what you’re saying is that guys score goals whenever they can and whether or not the timing of the goal defines them as “clutch” is completely coincidental? They don’t hold back and say “I could score a goal now, but it wouldn’t mean anything. I think I’ll wait instead and save it until it would be clutch.”? :-p
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I’m still calling him Jason Chihuahua.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Sep 15, 2011 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
He’s over at PPP, go pay him a visit.
Nicotine, Valium, Vicodin, Marijuana, Ecstasy and Alcohol
I bitch about things at twitter
The answer to “Where crazies go to be amongst themselves.”
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Hey now.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 15, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Ask the fat guy with the alcohol and the boat.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Welcome back Sophiejo
When you come back its like Die Hard…
With A Vengence…
I think you posted more times today than all of the previous parts of offseason.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Eric's on fire; on Talbot
Eric T is on fire this off-season. If this keeps up, there will be no rumors this season of his being traded to PPP for Chemmy
/inside TGP-related joke
I am doing my weekly perusing of BSH today (hey, sorry Geoff, but at least it isn’t fortnightly now and it’s not October yet) and so I’m late to the party but I wanted to high-five Eric’s commentary of Talbot vs. Rowand. Very insightful and apt
However, no one in that thread mentioned the parallel of Talbot’s 5 year contract to Rowand’s 5 year contract with SF. Comparatively, the Flyers did much better than SF; Rowand’s 5yr /$60M would be vaguely similar, relatively speaking, to a 5 yr/$18M in the NHL. However, it’s also important to remember that while there was no way the Phils would have paid the idiotic $$ Brian Sabean threw at Rowand, had Rowand asked RAJ for $4M per year (roughly equivalent to the $1.8 Talbot got from the Flyers) RAJ might have said yes. But given that Rowand just got DFA’d before the end of the 4th year of his contract (!!!) , I’d argue that even $4M per year for Rowand would have been an overpay.
Thus, let’s hope the comparison to Talbot ends here, or the end of Talbot’s contract will not look pretty.
Hunter Pence will not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither does Carlos Beltran.
Thanks — I appreciate it.
I thought about getting into the fact that Rowand had just been dumped, but was hesitant to take on the cross-sport comparisons of salary and value. But now that the can of worms is open, I agree with your sentiment that this contract won’t (or shouldn’t) turn out as badly as Rowand’s did in SF.
Not that this is the strongest endorsement ever, but it’s something. Getting a hockey player for five years at 27 doesn’t feel as risky to me as getting a baseball player for five years at 31.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I did bring that up to Eric while he was writing the post, and he responded as he did below.
Just to add to his comment: I also don’t think comparing Holmgren favorably to Sabean is saying much. That’s like saying Holmgren isn’t as bad as Tambellini.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 15, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Bizarre Columbus arena agreement
This reminds me of the agreements that hotel chains often have with building owners, land owners, management companies, and lenders. As one MBA put it, “like a drunk MBA having a fun time with absurd contracts.”
I’ll just point out that any financial investor will say “anything that you don’t understand you should not invest in.” And, as the only b-school professor in BSH (as far as I know), if someone asked me to pitch in to invest in that agreement, I’d say “I’m out.”
Hunter Pence will not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither does Carlos Beltran.
I hope someone at The Cannon does a write-up or Fan Post, I read earlier this year during the Carter Madness about how bent over Columbus as a City is around that Areana.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Questions for the statistically minded:
Have the Flyers actually been “tougher” than the average NHL team over the past five to ten years? Tougher either in how they play on the ice or how their roster is put together? Are there ways to quantify this (fighting majors; penalty minutes).
I ask because what if this is just part of the stubborn lingering legacy of the Broad Street Bullies. What if we’re not really that tough?
by flyersfaninchicago on Sep 15, 2011 3:23 PM EDT reply actions
The part that makes it a very tough gauge I would say is something like hits. If your outhitting the other team I would say that is a good marker… but hits are so subjective by areana that as far as I know it makes it a worthless stat (unless you just did overage % Vs. opponent.)
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
I could give you a statistical run down of PIM/G, major penalties, and minor penalties over the past couple years. Generally, we tend to be in the upper half of the league in terms of frequency in all those categories.
What I think people mean when they talk about the Flyers being “overly tough” is their tendency to waste roster spots and playing time on sub-par hockey players whose main value is the instigating, drawing, and taking of penalties (i.e., engaging the other team physically). I’m sure other people have better ideas of how to track whether the Flyers are more or less than the league average as far as employing these players, statistically. The larger point stat people tend to make is whether these type of players are necessary on a team AT ALL: certainly, there’s value in a player who can draw a lot of penalties and not take many, but the players who tend to fit that definition best are skill players (Giroux led the Flyers in differential last year, I believe). The disagreement is basically over what can be tracked by statistics, in terms of the contributions of forwards 10 thru 12; the shill cry of “toughness,” “heart,” and “intangibles” being unquantifiable is imminently unsatisfying. Everything is trackable, we just aren’t very good at tracking some things. So, when stat people take exception to that argument, I believe they are mainly objecting to the obstinance of it, not the merits per se. (We are showing you our proof that, say, Talbot is not worth a contract. Saying that he is because of things are INHERENTLY UNPROVABLE is illogical, and doesn’t even seem to have any merit as a thought.) As you have identified, we need to keep looking for ways to measure these things, but I don’t think you’ll find it in PIM.
This may read terribly, and people—even those who are essentially on the same side of the debate as I—may disagree with it. Just a thought I had.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
PIM for this team which was one of the most penalized under John Stevens in particular doesn’t equate to tough but more just stupid and lazy, ie Hartnell and Carcillo type penalties.
Love over-reactions that invade privacy even further.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 15, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
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