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Preseason insanity: Simmonds, Avery, Sestito, Rinaldo and Jagr all headline in 5-3 Flyers win

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[Recap] - [Game Page] - [New York Reaction] - [Discussion Thread]
[Box Score] - [Event Summary] - [PBP Log] - [TOI Log] - [Faceoff Report]
[Advanced Stats Not Available For Preseason Games]

PHILADELPHIA -- You know, for a sleepy preseason game, tonight's contest against the New York Rangers certainly had a ton of stuff going on. It certainly seemed like the height of the regular season on this September 26th, and well, I guess that's a good thing. And a bad thing. 

The Flyers won the game by a final score of 5-3 on goals from Jaromir Jagr (two of 'em, even), Matt Read, Braydon Coburn and Wayne Simmonds, but that's not really the story of tonight's contest.

No, instead we're looking at the possible suspension of Tom Sestito and the comments made by Sean Avery and Wayne Simmonds both during and after the game. Oh, and an injury to Brayden Schenn, Read's continued impressive play and two goals from Jaromir freakin' Jagr. We'll get into it all below.

Star-divide

One thing at a time here, because there's a lot to cover. It's still training camp and I don't have my typing muscles properly conditioned yet. Damnit, guys.

Let's start with the Simmonds and Avery thing. If you watched the game on TV or have seen the video, you already know what Simmonds said to Avery, and if that wasn't enough, the Ranger confirmed it to the media after the game. We weren't in the Rangers locker room, but we do have the quotes.

Q: Did he call you what we think he called you?

"Well, yeah."

Q: Is he going to say that there was anything as a precursor?

"I mean, I certainly hope not. Are you implying that it would be from something that I said?"

No, I was just asking.  

"No, I mean from my end. I certainly wasn't."

Q: Are you familiar with what happened with him last week?

"Yeah, it is really disappointing. First of all, who would do that? And why would you do it? It just such an unnecessary thing. It's something that's not even an issue with us or our sport. So to be here now and having to answer your questions about what he did is disappointing for me."

Q: Do you feel like when someone does something like that they should be treated in a similar context  (inaudible)?

"I mean Kobe got fined 100 grand. Everything is different now. You know, it's an issue. It is an issue that people are dealing with and trying to overcome. And I guess ten years ago, maybe it was not such an issue. But it is such an issue politically with people in the game and just in life in general."

Q: Is there concern that you were kind of vocal with the video you did this summer that players will come back against you?

"I mean, it has been said. It has been said for years. Whether I thought about it in that sense, I don't know."

Simmonds responded post-game as well. Here's video of that tense exchange with the media:

Avery's been at the forefront of the gay rights issue in hockey, and I've applauded him for those efforts. It's something we need to rid the game of and stuff like this has no place in our game. But to say that Simmonds' comments had anything to do with Avery's stance on homophobia in hockey and gay marriage is kind of ridiculous.

That's not to say we're using the "heat of the moment" excuse here, because that's not even close to the truth. There is no excuse for a comment like that. But the word Simmonds used is used so flippantly these days that it's not surprising he yelled it during the game. My guess is that it's probably just something he said. That's not to excuse it at all, and it was pretty low of Simmonds in my opinion to not apologize for what he said when talking to the media.

But to say that he used that word just because of Avery's politics? Doubtful.

And let's not believe that Avery is totally innocent here either. Because of the video evidence, he's able to take the moral high ground here, but I mean... he's Sean Avery. Not to say he used a slur or anything, but we all know that he was giving it back to Simmonds in this exchange. 

In the end, though, it's definitely on Simmonds to apologize here. We know what he said. He knows what he said. And he was wrong. 

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Now onto the Tom Sestito thing. 

He's going to be suspended, and we've already detailed the hit a little bit. Catch video over at that link as well. He was clearly shaken up about the hit after the game, which you can see pretty clearly from the video of his post-game media availability. 

Whether or not he's upset because of the illegal hit or because he probably just lost his shot at a job in the NHL (at least for the start of the year) is unknown. But really, that's kind of irrelevant at this point.

The big question now is what happens in the aftermath of that hit. Zac Rinaldo thinks it boosts his chances of making the club, and we'd have to agree. We'd also have to say that the one thing he certainly doesn't lack is confidence. From his post-game:

"I'm surprised it's not me this time" on being suspended. That's just awesome. But yeah, seriously, Rinaldo says he's trying to rein in his game and well, he's the only one that's really left standing at this point when it comes to tough guys and suspensions. He's not a heavyweight and doesn't seem to really want to play that role, but who knows at this point.

If he can keep the crazy down, that'll be awesome. He says he can and he's been the only one able to do so in camp so far. I'm still stuck on the more suspensions than goals thing in the AHL last year, but hey... if he actually keep that up, he'll have a new fan in me. For now, I'm still on the fence about whether or not he's just a good salesman for himself or whether he's actually trying to tame his game a bit. 

Oh, and here's Rinaldo's fight from tonight. Jesus, poor Dale Weise

Star_divide_medium

Some other loose ends:

-- Brayden Schenn left the game with an "upper body injury" in the third period. Paul Holmgren updated his condition after the game, saying he doesn't think it's that serious and that he'll be listed as questionable for the game against New Jersey on Thursday. He could be ready for the weekend. Good news.

-- Matt Read had another good night. The murmurs about him making the team continue to grow, and if everybody competing for a spot gets suspended, well... 

-- Jaromir Jagr scored two goals tonight, both on the power play. He looked really composed on the PP and, well... that's a big part of why they signed him. It's still early but he looks like Jaromir freakin' Jagr, and that's a good thing. 

-- Whether he was called a homophobic slur or not, Sean Avery is still a despicable hockey player. /obvious things

-- Ilya Bryzgalov was asked about the Flyers vs. Rangers rivalry. First impressions and such. "It seems like there's going to be lots of murders. Make sure we have enough ambulances, huh?" That guy is the man.

Comment of the Night

Embrace the Jagr.    

>> jello44

Comment 143 comments  |  Add comment  |  0 recs  | 

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Matt Read!

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by Chase W on Sep 26, 2011 11:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Important quote

From: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20110926_Jagr_scores_twice_as_Flyers_top_Rangers.html

“With G at center,” Jagr said, referring to Claude Giroux (three assists), “it’s a lot easier to play. He’s a genius.”

Asked whether Giroux reminded him of anyone, Jagr smiled.

“[Me] when I was younger,” he said, later calling Giroux “a little Mario Lemieux.”

Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.

One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Sep 26, 2011 11:59 PM EDT reply actions  

What Jagr really said...

Dear Pens,

Giroux is god. Fuck you all.

Love,
Jary

Chris Pronger: Now the Flyers really do have a Captain Elbows. #Winning

Of the sound mind that Giroux moved out because Briere burnt too many grilled cheeses.

Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Sep 27, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Or

Dear Pens,

Sidney who?

Love,
Jary

Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.

One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Sep 27, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

AWESOME. :-D

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is it true that after Simmonds used the gay slur he yelled “Kobe!”?

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by JasonB on Sep 26, 2011 11:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Congrats to jello for the COTN, great saying.

G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*

by JerseyDriver on Sep 27, 2011 12:01 AM EDT reply actions  

/bows

This station is non-operational
On the twitterverse

by jello44 on Sep 27, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I feel like I deserve 1/8th credit since I set it up…just saying.

But kudos to jello44 for making the most of it.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Sep 27, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope Jagr has huge games against the Penguins. Just for the lolz.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 12:05 AM EDT reply actions  

oh my gosh FLYERROB has found Blueshirt Banter. That guy is the gift that keeps on giving.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 12:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Snerk

He thinks the Quakers jerseys are 100% the leaked real WC jerseys.

Chris Pronger: Now the Flyers really do have a Captain Elbows. #Winning

Of the sound mind that Giroux moved out because Briere burnt too many grilled cheeses.

Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Sep 27, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I died laughing.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wanted to respond with this: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

but I hadn’t yet joined Blueshirtbanter and they have the day wait thing.

Chris Pronger: Now the Flyers really do have a Captain Elbows. #Winning

Of the sound mind that Giroux moved out because Briere burnt too many grilled cheeses.

Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Sep 27, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Damnit I hit the wrong reply button

Chris Pronger: Now the Flyers really do have a Captain Elbows. #Winning

Of the sound mind that Giroux moved out because Briere burnt too many grilled cheeses.

Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Sep 27, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t bother, that place is not very friendly.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Eh, we’re not that bad. Everyone got their, ummm, interesting posters.

Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
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by George E. Ays on Sep 27, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Awhile ago (I can’t even remember exactly when) I made a few non-insulting comments there and was treated with responses along the lines of “this is a Rangers blog you are a Flyers fan get away.” For all I know it may have been those “interesting posters.” ;-)

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Eyep, we’ve just figured out how to export ours to other blogs!

by VorAbaddon on Sep 27, 2011 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep I’m not sure how this is going to pan out

Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.

One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Sep 27, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hilariously. That’s how.

Chris Pronger: Now the Flyers really do have a Captain Elbows. #Winning

Of the sound mind that Giroux moved out because Briere burnt too many grilled cheeses.

Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Sep 27, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Should I be worried?

Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf

by George E. Ays on Sep 27, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Put it this way, he was an interesting poster over here who got banned as he always made everything into some sort of interesting flame-up about him. He complained about us to Pension Plan Puppets and now posts there regularly. He won the PPP Rookie Of The Year Award this past season.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s started stuff over there too though.

Chris Pronger: Now the Flyers really do have a Captain Elbows. #Winning

Of the sound mind that Giroux moved out because Briere burnt too many grilled cheeses.

Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Sep 27, 2011 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

He argues with PPP now?

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

He has chosen… poorly.

by VorAbaddon on Sep 27, 2011 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget about his homophobic comments, racial comments, religious comments and Hitler comments. But he was always the “victim”, no matter what happened.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

And I’m sure he’ll be an outstanding representative of the Flyers fanbase everywhere he goes…

/facepalm

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

That guy is the gift that keeps on giving.

He’s Herpes?

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Sep 27, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

This political correct madness must end. Any one who has played any sport where trash talking has taken place has heard (and perhaps used) that word during a game. It is very common and Sean Avery knows this. He is obviously looking for attention as always. The media is looking for stories even though most of them know this a non-one, but it bookends nicely with the Wayne Simmons banana incident. That is why it will get traction. I hope that Simmons will not have to apologize for a word that is probably said in every hockey game at every level down to juniors. But if he is, I would like the entire 2010 Stanley Cup winning Blackhawks to apologize to Chris Pronger for writing on their board that he is gay, and that includes coaches who let it stay up without any protests.

by psuhockey on Sep 27, 2011 12:38 AM EDT reply actions  

the word was f***ing pussy right?

by Jazzy85 on Sep 27, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Faggot, but he said that too.

by ohnickels on Sep 27, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

ah yes just saw the video

by Jazzy85 on Sep 27, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought he said “baguette”, maybe he was asking if Avery knew a good bakery in town. (I got nothing.)

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m sorry, but “it happens all the time” is a weak-ass defense, and in fact could be an indication that more should be done to punish discriminatory language, since there’s clearly no deterrent now. It’s not political correctness to say that insults that rely on denigrating already disadvantaged groups is offensive, not to mention lazy and uncreative.

by ohnickels on Sep 27, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Empowering the word doesn’t help matters either, IMO. I really hate this debate

by mantis toboggan on Sep 27, 2011 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is a hard subject too talk about but it should be. I will say I believe that everyone should be treated equally. I don’t care what you sexual preference, race, creed, or any other possible thing that makes you “different”. I have a problem with this subject because I personally don’t think the word fag is the same as the n-word. I realize that it is a double standard but I just really believe that.

On the other hand I can see how that word could be equally offensive to someone who was gay. This is where it gets tricky. I will be the first one to admit I have used that word countless times while playing competitively. I admit that its wrong but it probably has a lot to do with the era I was raised in.

Today its a much more “politically correct” then when I was growing up and everything is much more offensive then years ago. So maybe I need to change.

The one thing I find very childish, is the fact that Avery is such a rat. I think even if Avery was or did call Simmonds the N-word that Simmonds would not “rat” Avery out on it. I feel much like lockeroom issues, this is something that stay on the ice. People say things in the heat of the moment, I don’t think that it means those are their true feelings.

All this being said I am going to make an extra effort to not use the f-word on or away from hockey.

by Mattx on Sep 27, 2011 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

A few thoughts:

I think the worry some people have is that “politically correct” becomes “legally correct”. These issues are very very sensitive and emotional for those involved and who believed strongly, and our country states that both sides have the right to express their opinion, so long as they do so in a civil manner.

However, the politically correct method, as it becomes more and more acceptable (and in and of itself the viewpoint being espoused, such as gay rights, may not even be a bad thing), it can VERY easily be twisted and used against people who are NOT true bigots.

I posted a story from Indoctrinate U, a favorite documentary of mine, on Justin F’s blog about a kid who brought in an African American author who wrote a… provocative book on race relations as a political speaker for his club. It didn’t hold up however to the “Politically acceptable” definition, and he was almost expelled. The same held up for some college kids who put on an “Affirmative Action bake Sale” to try and protest what they saw as discrimination. They also almost lost their education. A bunch of kids who did the “Jackson 5” in blackface (Admittedly, that is pushing right up against the line of good taste and maybe treading over), were punished harshly. But those who held to the local “acceptable” politics were given free reign.

The issue is that we’re humans, and we can’t get too caught up in "This side is right, this side is wrong. Today’s game is a great example: We’re getting to know Simmonds, and his on-ice play and great response to the racial incident, but this reveals some deep flaws about his acceptance of another cultural shame. Sean Avery supports a brave cause (And regardless of the side you’re on, it takes guts in the NHL to stand up for that particular viewpoint), but we all also know him of old and he’s a useless, whining, mewling piece of trash.

So… which is the good person? Who’s in the right? On the total, neither of them. They’re both humans and both have flaws, and it’s going to take a lot of work to get those flaws ironed out. Some never will be.

Does this mean we shouldn’t try? No, we should always aim for being better. But it’s not as cut and dry as some people think it must be, and that’s why we worry about these issues getting “Too much attention.” They have a habit of picking up crowd momentum and then hurtling along to the depths of idiocy while losing their original message.

by VorAbaddon on Sep 27, 2011 3:56 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

World English Dictionary
faggot or esp ( US ) fagot 1 (ˈfæɡət) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]
 
— n
1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel
2. a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron
3. a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried
4. a bundle of anything
 
— vb
5. to collect into a bundle or bundles
6. needlework to do faggoting on (a garment, piece of cloth, etc)
 
[C14: from Old French, perhaps from Greek phakelos bundle]
 
fagot or esp ( US ) fagot 1
 
— n
 
— vb
 
[C14: from Old French, perhaps from Greek phakelos bundle]

Maybe he was just referring to Avery as a bundle of fried pork

by Pocono Flyers Fan on Sep 27, 2011 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just noticed on NHL.com they have Matt Read’s goal and it’s titled “A Good Read”. Someone said something exactly similar in the game thread. I’m thinking nhl.com reads this blog and steals from it.

by pintium02 on Sep 27, 2011 12:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Or it’s just an obvious pun on his name?

Chris Pronger: Now the Flyers really do have a Captain Elbows. #Winning

Of the sound mind that Giroux moved out because Briere burnt too many grilled cheeses.

Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Sep 27, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

i don’t get it

by captj on Sep 27, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

also says on the side “Rangers top Flyers in preview”

by Jazzy85 on Sep 27, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Breaking news:  Sports athletes may not be the kindest, gentlest, and most politically correct people, even those who are victims of racial taunts and those who support gay rights!  Outrage!

I pass not judgment on either men, but on the culture of professional sports in general.  Yeah, I despise that 6-letter f-word with every fiber of my being.  Yeah, I would prefer an autopsy not need to be done on my favorite Flyer.  But if I were a betting man, Wayne Simmonds is not the first sports athlete to utter that word this year and Sean Avery is not the first person to threaten someone with the grim reaper (in fact, some people on Twitter are positive they heard Tony Romo threaten death to his center tonight).

There are reasons to be outraged that people call other people the 6-letter f-word in sports and in a serious tone say they are going to kill someone.  This stuff has no place in sports.  It should be removed.  In a perfect world, it would be removed  But the select few who get caught, Kobe Bryant, Wayne Simmonds, Tony Romo, and Sean Avery are merely biproducts of a sports culture where intolerance (especially the homophobic kind) are not outside the norm.  It is a shame and has no place in the game, but there is a long way to go before we eliminate homophobia, death threats, and racism in sports.  A long way.  And yes, it sucks, because there are gays who I am sure are offended by their favorite player using that word.  They hear (heard) it enough at school and they do not need to hear it anymore, and I do not begrudge them outrage that sports players use this language.

As a sports fan, I knowingly acknowledge the people I cheer for may not be the kindest of gentlemen or even people that I would want to associate myself with in everyday life.  But sadly, there are people in this world much more naive than me.

The best way to get rid of this junk would probably be through education and by somehow teaching them what impact words can have on others.  Now how do you go about giving a much-needed education to an entire culture?  Beats me.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 1:05 AM EDT reply actions  

To add to this, I think it’s worth mentioning/repeating that these comments are being uttered in the context of a violent physical competition which is a modern-day version of gladiatorial combat and something even more primitive than that. Using fear, loathing and intimidation both verbal and physical is consistent with how this kind of game has been played since forever. It doesn’t make the words ok but I don’t think it’s realistic to import the mores of civilized society into a hockey rink. When you read about how much fear the enforcers experience in getting ready for the games it makes it clear that the body and mind and emotions are in a very heightened state. To take what is said in this environment and overlay it onto the debates in our general political/social discourse doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

by flyersfaninchicago on Sep 27, 2011 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

/ducks

So does this mean I can’t call him Euroqueer Jagirl anymore?

/2dickmovesinonesentance

by philiafan14364 on Sep 27, 2011 1:09 AM EDT reply actions  

I just can’t really understand the media. I want to meet the guys in the media who actually have tried to play ice hockey in a league or high school, college, beer, etc. I played at almost every level through college and stuff gets said almost every other game. It’s on the ice and 99% it’s left on the ice. No one needs to repeat it later. Before blogs and microphones no one cared to make a stink out of it. But now so that someone’s job is safe or to get more clicks on a blog we have to listen to the whinning media ask the same dumb question over and over. Leave these players alone they are going to turn into Mike Richards!
GET OVER IT! It’s hockey and players hit other players, fight, draw blood, and yes call each other F*gg*ts. Sean Avery will get over it and so will Simmonds. Just move on and talk about the interesting parts of the game. Sorry for the rant but I’m just tired of all this stuff. I’m going to read about Crosby’s being almost ready to return some more. Bye.

by mixtery on Sep 27, 2011 1:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Did you read the story I linked above? When I said that “I applauded Avery for this before” or whatever I said. I talked about this exact thing there.

Just because we use it all the time in beer leagues or whatever doesn’t make it right. It’s an offensive word that’s used way too fucking much, and we shouldn’t use it anymore. It’s really pretty simple.

Is it used all the time? Yes. Is a big stink being made about this only because it was caught on TV? Yes. But that doesn’t make it okay. In fact, the notion that we use the word so flippantly is exactly the problem.

Its a big deal and brushing it aside as just hockey players being hockey players doesn’t address the issue at all.

If we don’t address this shit when it happens and when we have the opportunity, it never changes.

(By the way, if I wanted more clicks I probably wouldn’t have buried the issue inside the recap. I would’ve made it its own story Just saying.)

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by Travis Hughes on Sep 27, 2011 1:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Agreed completely, Travis.

But the problem is how do we address it? I suggested education above (though I have no idea how that would happen) because I do not think a fine or suspension of Simmonds is going to change things.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am totally for education, but I think for that to ever happen don’t gay people need to be equal and allowed to be married first. Gay people are not allowed to be married how are we going to be able to educate people (I would assume by education you mean in schools) when gay people can’t even have the basic benefits that every other American is given.

by Mattx on Sep 27, 2011 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think the fact that gay people are unable to marry in this country is the true root of the problem, even though it may not help the situation. Both players in question here are from suburban Toronto, and gay marriage has been legal there for more than 6 years.

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by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 27, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I could care less about Toronto. I care about my country first. How can we want that word to dissapear but not have gay people have the same rights as everyone else. I am not saying the word would dissapear but how is it fair that they don’t have the same rights as everyone else. What is the difference between any other minority and gay people.

by Mattx on Sep 27, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s got a good point. If we want everyone to be treated equally, the government needs to get on board with that too. We talk a lot of talk in this country about equality and rights, but we don’t always mean it.

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by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Politicians are more concerned with re-election than anything else, and there’s still a large number of people in the United States that are virulently homophobic. I expect that will continue to change over time, but it will take time. There’s still rampant racism in different flavors, along with nativism (anti-immigrant feelings) and sexism. It’s easy to hate. It’s harder to stand up to the hate.

Bob.

by The Dark on Sep 27, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed on all counts.

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by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I also agree. Things are going to have to change starting with the people then it can be filtered up to the politicians.

by Mattx on Sep 27, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I want them to have the rights, there’s no question there. My point was that the people involved were Canadian and they were still using the word despite the fact that where they are from gay people do have those rights. We want that word to disappear here in America (and I also want our country to fork over those long overdue freedoms); but it’s not going to disappear in hockey unless the word also disappears in Canada. Thus the rights alone didn’t make the word go away, that’s all I was getting at.

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by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 27, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we all understand that no matter what happens the word will never dissapear.

by Mattx on Sep 27, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Give the guy a break, dude. Yes, it can be a nasty word. But I’m sure if you played against Sean Avery, you’d be saying some nasty things back at him after he said some nasty shit to you. Avery is a sorry excuse for a human being because he decided to rat someone out after pissing them off and threatening to kill Giroux, etc. I know just thinking about Avery disgusts me, so I can’t imagine what having to hear his voice all night in my ears would make me do or say.

This guy is a pest and he’s stirred up some more shit by taking the low road. Notice Simmonds could’ve commented on what Avery said, but he didn’t. The fact that Avery couldn’t let it go shows what a scumbag hypocrite he is.

by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think this is the problem...

… It’s one thing to have someone championing a great cause. When that person is an absolute sack of shit, and goes out of his way to needle other players, then stands on a high horse when they respond?

I think that’s the worst. If Avery said “Look, I’m not going to talk about it, ask him if you think he said something inappropriate.” Or “Well, we traded some harsh words and if his went over the line the league will review and decide if action is needed”, I’d be fine. But… I dunno, I want him to make it an issue and fix it, but he just goes about it in a way that gets under my skin.

by VorAbaddon on Sep 27, 2011 4:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree entirely. I don’t condone what Simmonds said at all. But the way Avery goes about things is pretty infuriating.

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by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just because you hate Sean Avery doesn’t mean anybody can say any offensive thing they want to him.

What Wayne Simmonds said needs to be removed from sports, let alone society. That fact doesn’t change simply because you don’t like who he said it to.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. I absolutely loathe Avery. IMO, with some of the things he’s said or been accused of saying in the past, he’s got a lot of gall to complain about something said to him. But that still doesn’t excuse Simmonds for saying it, it simply should not have happened.

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by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let’s be reailistic, though. Does Simmonds go around calling everyone a faggot? I hope not. Avery probably wanted Simmonds to have this response so he could gloat to the media about it.

Avery is a sack of shit, and him telling the media about a nasty comment Simmonds made doesn’t change anything, and won’t change anything. It just brings him media attention after a bad game of his, and makes Simmonds look really bad.

by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let’s be reailistic, though. Does Simmonds go around calling everyone a faggot? I hope not.

I hope not too. But since neither of us know, we should point out that he shouldn’t call anyone that. Period.

Avery probably wanted Simmonds to have this response so he could gloat to the media about it.

This is of no consequence to me, and I highly doubt Avery wanted Simmonds to use a homophobic slur since Avery was one of the first hockey players to step up for homosexuals. Wanting Simmonds to get pissed and wanting Simmonds to say the f-word are two completely different things.

Avery is a sack of shit, and him telling the media about a nasty comment Simmonds made doesn’t change anything, and won’t change anything. It just brings him media attention after a bad game of his, and makes Simmonds look really bad.

Simmonds was caught on camera saying it, and when asked after the game about it – which, again, everybody already saw, it’s why they asked Avery and Simmonds the question – Avery answered. Avery didn’t make it a story, it was already a story.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Simmonds was caught on camera saying it, and when asked after the game about it – which, again, everybody already saw, it’s why they asked Avery and Simmonds the question – Avery answered. Avery didn’t make it a story, it was already a story.

This is an excellent point. Avery didn’t go crying to the reporters, they approached him about it. If they hadn’t, maybe he would have brought it up, maybe he wouldn’t. We’ll never know.

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by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though, on the other hand, one could compare Avery and Simmonds’ responses to basically the same question. Avery confirmed that Simmonds said something and denied that he said anything to provoke it. Simmonds basically said things got heated and gave no details either way about what he or Avery said. He even went as far to say “I’m not gonna rat him out.” It still doesn’t excuse anything Simmonds said that was caught on camera, or anything either of them might have said that wasn’t captured. But I think it’s an interesting difference between their personalities, nonetheless.

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by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

ASF reported that Simmonds was told what to say by Flyers officials.

In case that sways you either way.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm, interesting. I’m not really sure what to make of that.

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by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me put it a better way…Avery bringing up bad things other people said on the ice is like the KKK saying their feelings were hurt after a black guy called one of them a cracker.

They have no standing because they look to provoke that kind of response to damage the other person.

by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Avery didn’t bring it up.

In case you missed it in the recap, here’s the transcript from Avery’s interview:

Q: Did he call you what we think he called you?

“Well, yeah.”

So, stop with the Avery brought it up, and is therefore like the KKK. The media brought it up because video evidence of Simmonds saying it had already broken in the news.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

He could’ve easily said that it was a heated exchange and things get said on the ice, which is what Simmonds did. This is one insult that was said on the ice to a scumbag player. You’re treating it like a social issue. I’d imagine worse things are said about players’ wives and girlfriends all the time, especially by Avery.

by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

This absolutely is a social issue. He used a homophobic slur, that was picked up on camera. You’re sitting here saying it’s okay.

How does the 14 year old hockey player feel when he not only has to hide who he is, but he now has to deal with thousands, if not millions, of people saying it’s okay to use that slur because it’s hockey and Simmonds said it to a scumbag?

Are wives and girlfriends an oppressed class of our society? Do they suffer discrimination in schools and in the laws? Do they have a disproportionate amount of hate directed at them? Do they have a slur that is defended as “no longer offensive”? Do wives and girlfriends have a disproportionately higher suicide rate?

Your comparison is terribly naive if you wish to compare wives and girlfriends to homosexuals.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not saying it’s ok to use the slur. I never said that. I just think this is being blown way out of proportion and that Simmonds is taking the fall for something that goes on quite a bit in any sport.

You are right that gays are discriminated against, at least in America, and I wish that weren’t the case. I just think using this as an example of how they’re discriminated against is a bad idea.

Avery is a guy who has called black people monkeys to their faces on the ice, has been described by Lappy as “the worst teammate he’s ever had,” and got kicked off a team for alienating a dressing room and making comments about sloppy seconds. And now people are upset that Simmonds said something not nice to this man.

I agree that it’s not a nice word and it shouldn’t have been said. But making a big deal about it isn’t going to change anything. If it was anyone but Avery, maybe I’d feel differently. But this guy has such a bad rap, that even stuff like this I can’t take completely seriously.

by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not saying it’s ok to use the slur. I never said that. I just think this is being blown way out of proportion and that Simmonds is taking the fall for something that goes on quite a bit in any sport.

That’s what I first thought when it happens. Because unfortunately it does happen more often in sports than gets caught on television. But that thankfully has not been the pre-dominating narrative that has stemmed from this. Simmonds is not being portrayed in the worst possible light, as I feared he would be, especially after last week’s banana incident.

It is a problem with society, it is a problem with sports culture, and it is a problem that needs solving.

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by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe making a big deal out of this won’t change anything. But ignoring it definitely won’t change anything, and it could make it worse.

You agree it shouldn’t have been said. That’s my entire point. The rest is just noise.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t believe such a big deal is being made out of a word. I was taught “sticks and stones” as a kid and if someone said something that offended me, I would try to take care of it physically. Most if the time though I would let it roll of my back. Now everybody whines and cries to somebody else instead of taking care of it themselves or realizing it was just a word and not a big deal. Instead we have a soft censorship that is surpressing speech. You can call that an exaggeration but it is not. If you try to police every word that offends people, there will be no more words to say.

by psuhockey on Sep 27, 2011 6:35 AM EDT reply actions  

It’s not about Simmonds calling Avery a name. It’s that Simmonds used a homophobic slur. Nobody cares how it made Avery feel – thus “sticks and stones” isn’t applicable. It’s that the word was spoken at all that is the problem.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am not talking about how the word made Avery feel, I am talking about those that get offended by that word being used in general, especially when it wasn’t used against them. I think people need thicker skin. I am not sure of your race or nationality ( and frankly I don’t care) but would you be offended he you overheard someone else calling someone a cracker, or dego, or polack, or mic or whatever even though it wasn’t directed at you? I would guess not. Even if you were upset, would you then demand an apology from that person?

by psuhockey on Sep 27, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

So you condone derogatory slurs simply because they don’t offend you?

It’s real easy for a heterosexual white man to say “get thicker skin”, since I’m betting nobody has ever oppressed you or discriminated against you based on your sexual orientation, gender, or race.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

You act like this is the 1950s with roving gangs of white supremacists beating up homosexuals and minorities. I don’t see oppression or discrimination like you do in today’s society. I think most people, minus a few idiots, don’t really care anymore. I think making a big deal out of a slur has the direct opposite affect on tolerance. It does not bring together groups but separates them and creates special classes that need to be treated differently from the rest. Those slurs I mentioned in the previous post has virtually no meaning in today’s society anymore but were considered just as bad once upon a time in this country. Those words have lost there bigoted meaning (and in some precincts turned commical) because those very groups stopped making a big deal out of them.

by psuhockey on Sep 27, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

You act like this is the 1950s with roving gangs of white supremacists beating up homosexuals and minorities.

I really don’t.

It does not bring together groups but separates them and creates special classes that need to be treated differently from the rest.

By saying “don’t use this derogatory slur”, it separates people? Because stepping up and saying “stop using discriminatory words”, it breeds segregation? I fail to see how.

Those words have lost there bigoted meaning (and in some precincts turned commical) because those very groups stopped making a big deal out of them.

Because if you ignore it, it’ll just go away?

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes I do believe if you ignore stupid ideas they go away. When you make a big deal about ignorant points of view you give weight to their argument. It is why the kkk is practically dead in this country because nobody pays any attention to them because they are off the wall crazy. It is also why you create more closet resentment of a particular group when they jump down a guys throat for saying a slur in a heated augment that just happened to be caught on video. I am not saying that you or anybody else on this board has jumped down Simmons throat for what he said. You have all casually stated that he shouldn’t have said it and moved on, which is the proper measured approach. You had to comment on it because sadly it became part of last night’s game. I just think it was a non- issue which might blow up into a bigger story because of the overly politically correct society we live in. And it is my opinion that all of this politically correctness is having the direct opposite affect. I think it creates more closeted resentment when you make a big deal out of nothing, which in my opinion, this was.

by psuhockey on Sep 27, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Watch the last three minutes of this video (it’s not safe for work) and it’ll probably change your opinion on the use of the word faggot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc

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by Travis Hughes on Sep 27, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is a great video and something that made for think about the word but the most important part of that video is after all that serious conversation Nick DiPalo responds “Thanks faggot we will keep that in mind and everyone laughed.”

Is the word offensive and insensitive yes but Simmonds is 23 years old and being insensitive and offensive comes with being a male of that age as you get older I think you are more careful about what you say.

But for many especially younger generations that word faggot has nothing to do with sexuality or sexual preference. It is referring to someone who isn’t being manly or being a pussy something that Avery is known for not dropping the gloves hiding behind people and throwing cheap shots. There is really no better word to describe Avery.

And also Avery is not gay. Calling a straight gay a faggot has an entirely different connotation than calling a gay man a faggot or even a gay woman a faggot.

South Park described it best http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/254819/insanely-good-sense#searchterm=F%20Word also not safe for work.

To quote Stan “a lot of fags aren’t gay”

by chrislanci on Sep 27, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I think that when you point out racist, homophobic, sexist, and any other offensive behavior that we, as a society, should be better than, you draw attention to what society will and will not tolerate.

The more society takes a stand and says “enough. This is not acceptable.” the more people stand with them.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

In a perfect world that would work, but this ain’t a perfect world. What do you think is the likely scenario if Simmons is fined and made to apologize: 1 he gets a new found respect for the gay community and never uses that term again or 2 he gets pissed off he has to make the apology and pay the fine? And if he gets pissed off, who do you think he mite blame? I would hope Avery but he might begrudge a little resentment to the gay community as well. Scenario 2 is usually how the world works, right or wrong.

by psuhockey on Sep 27, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Option 3 is that he takes responsibility for what he said and deals with the aspects of it that might not seem fair to him without taking it out on someone else. That’s not a “perfect” world. People do make that choice every day.

by flyersfaninchicago on Sep 27, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scenario 2 requires me to believe that Simmonds, a black man, is unable to realize that his choice of words is offensive.

But the real world doesn’t have only two options.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess for me personally I have meant many people who have become racists simply by dealing with political correctness gone wild: being unable to discipline a minority employee the same as another employee for fear of being called a racist, having to go to HR for a long drawn out process because of a word taken out of context, or after having charges brought against them after terminating an employee that he/she didn’t even know was gay at the time of their firing. These types of things happen a lot more than you think and sadly they turn people against the very groups that pc is trying to promote tolerance for. I know these types of stories don’t fit the narrative but they happen in real life. Yes there or many more than two options but this is definitely one of them.

by psuhockey on Sep 27, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that’s a problem. But punishing Simmonds for using this slur on television, toward another player, is not 1) being unable to discipline a minority employee; 2) a long drawn out HR process; or 3) being sued.

We don’t even need to get into the argument over whether anger directed toward the oppressed group as a result of these actions – which, in your examples, are all government related – is appropriate.

Anybody who gets angry at homosexuals because Wayne Simmonds had to pay a fine is just looking for a reason to get angry at them. This won’t sway anyone to discriminate where there was none before. And if Wayne Simmonds takes his anger out at them, we can call him out for that. Because it’d be misplaced.

So I don’t see what your fears are with an anti-homosexual backlash. Simmonds and the NHL doing the right thing here won’t make people resent the homosexual community.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

The same KKK that is still active in 19 states, including Pennsylvania?

Also, overly political correct?

On September 9, fifteen year-old Billy Lucas of Greensburg, Indiana was found hanging from one of the rafters in his family’s barn by his mother. He had been bullied for years based on his perceived sexual orientation. More recently, students referred to him as a “fag,” and told him directly that he was a piece of crap and that he didn’t deserve to live.

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by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

And New Jersey. I grew up in the immediate are of the one listed.

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by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 27, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last Night....

Didn’t get to post much last night, I was busy multitasking between the Hockey game and the Rev’s Playoffs game.

But all I can say is, “Hey Pens fans, you Jelly?” Lol

My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.

by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 8:08 AM EDT reply actions  

I personally can’t wait to watch the Flyers organization bend over backwards in order to not offend the gay community in light of this shocking development. /sarc.

by fansince96 on Sep 27, 2011 8:50 AM EDT reply actions  

A rant on turning non-issues into issues...

As many have noted, hockey is a game played at a high level of arousal. You don’t want to hide behind the ‘heat of the moment comment,’ but at the same time there is a lot of truth in it. Like many have mentioned there is a grey area in life, it’s not always in black and white. What makes this an issue is that people need to make an issue out of something that is not. I can’t get inside Simmonds mind, but at the time of the comment you would have to expect that he just said a word that came to his mind. Do you think he made a conscious decision to make a derogatory response towards homosexuals? I highly doubt it. Any one that has been in a heated debate has said things that they don’t mean and it will happen no matter how hard we try not to.

What drives me nuts is the press this gets. In my opinion, the comment in this context is the minor issue the major issue is the way people have blown it out of context and it turned a non-issue into an issue.

I consider myself very liberal in my outlook on society. I treat others the same no matter what their sexual orientation, race or religious beliefs. Do I attend gay rights parades? No. Do I respect those who do? Yes. Like others have mentioned events like this are needed to educate others and to bring societal issues into light.

I have gay friends,gay family members, friends from different races, friends from different religions and I treat them all the same. I feel uneasy even segregating them in the previous sentence, but in the end it comes down to respecting everyone the same. If I run into a gay friend in the street I’m not thinking ’there’s my gay freind,’ I’m thinking ’there’s my friend’. If I changed the way I was around this friend and try to be a different person than that wouldn’t be treating them as equals.

Simmonds might have made a poor choice in words, but I think the equality issue that rises from this is, that it has been made into an equality issue rather than just a slip of the tongue. By making this an issue it does more damage to equality than to let it be a insignificant mistake.

If this is a premeditated attack against someones else than by all means take measures against it….

Sean Avery has proven time and time again that he has not a gut to be respected. He is known to be disrepectful in many different scenarios and with pre-planned derogatory insults. To have him accuse another of this is bigotry to the 10th degree.

Simmonds down played an incident that happened to him in London and has down played this incident as well. There are going to be those who do make a conscious attempt to put down others and there were be slip-ups with no malice attended. If we continue to look at every one and every action through a microscope we are going to be left with wanting more.

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 8:53 AM EDT reply actions  

Sorry to reply to my own thread

The last paragraph is a ittle vague…It was supposed to relate to how Simmonds rxn from London was one person being that person making a conscious decision (which is an issue), and Simmonds taking the high road and not giving this person the satisfaction of having his negative behaviour amplified.

The last part of the paragraph was implying that if you look deep enough into anyone or any situation you can find or make a case for anything by blowing it out of context, which may do more harm than good.

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you think he made a conscious decision to make a derogatory response towards homosexuals? I highly doubt it. Any one that has been in a heated debate has said things that they don’t mean and it will happen no matter how hard we try not to.

So you then apologize. Nobody is slamming him for getting caught up in the moment. They’re slamming him for – what many think was – a mistake.

I care less that he said it during a game, and more that he said it at all.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I totally see your point of view Geoff and agree 100%, but there are a couple other factors that also come into play.
1) It is directly after the game. Reporters are trying to take this slip up and blow it up as much as possible. Simmonds hasn’t had time to think about everything he is saying and saying as little as possible does not let the reporters build and blow up his comments. You can here in the questioning reporters trying to pry into him and make tinhs worse.

2) Like many have mentioned this happens every game, if he apologizes is this something that he can guarantee and others guarantee it’s not going to happen again? There is no way. In a perfect world there is going to be no trash talking, but unfortunately it happens at every level. Yes, the word he used is offensive, but an apology could be taken into being at fault and in a literal way he was, but in the overall scheme of things he made a comment that happens at every level of play from peewee to old timers hockey. Not necesssarily the word he chose, but words in general. For example, if he said Im going to get you next shift… this could be blown up into uttering death threats. If this sets a presedence for trash talking in hockey, does every person apologize after the game?

3) I have no problem with his interview. If I’m in Simmonds shoes I feel like apologizing is going going to belown up into admitting guilt. I don’t think Simmonds guilty of any thing derogatory to anyone else it was just a comment that meant nothing and was blown out of proportions.

On a different note completely. The way that some of the players carry themselves on the ice is getting disgusting to watch. Players are making a career out of being ‘instigators,’ and some games it gets to a point where I have to turn off the TV. If the NHL wants to make an impact penalize these so called ‘instigators,’ beforehand. Give them unsportsmanship conduct or travesty to the game penalties before things escalate to the point of where there is a reaction…

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

1) But how easy is it to simply say “I said somethings I shouldn’t have. I’m not going to share them with you, but…” and move on?

2) Apologizing and guaranteeing it never happens again are two completely different things. Further, trash talking is completely different. If you can’t trash talk without death threats and homophobic slurs, you aren’t trying hard at all. There’s always “yo mama” jokes.

Further, the fact that this comment “happens at every level of play, from peewee to old timers hockey” is exactly why this needs to stop. Pee wee players don’t know what this word means, and it only further breeds latent homophobia in the next generation. How does the homosexual 12 year old feel when his teammate stands up for him by calling the opponent the f-word?

I don’t think you are naive enough to think eliminating homophobic slurs from hockey also eliminates trash talk, so I’m going to ignore the precedent you’re fearful of setting.

3) I don’t care what the comment meant, I care that it was said. I care that it got caught on camera. I care that somewhere, a homosexual teenager is being called exactly what Wayne Simmonds called Sean Avery, and thousands of people are saying is okay to say. I care that, while one Philadelphia sports franchise is telling young homosexuals it gets better, another organization is tacitly standing by and/or ignoring the message that calling those same homosexuals a derogatory term is okay, so long as you said it to Sean Avery, or you said it while playing hockey.

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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

1) your point is worded perfectly I agree. You have had time to think about it and are not in a high pressure situation being pried on by reporters.

You can get into what ifs all you want. You talking about momma jokes could be worse off then other comment. What if his mother passed away? What if his mother has a disease?

I’m saying things are said that aren’t really meant and you can spin any trash talking any way you want if you dig deep enough.

The problem is it is blown out of context and everything can be if looked at hard enough.

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

There’s a difference between homophobic and racist remarks and just being an ass. When an Islander made a joke about Briere’s car accident, that was disgusting. But it’s not one that has broader repercussions for an oppressed class of citizens.

It’s the difference between a remark that crosses the line of one individual person (Briere) and a remark that crosses the line of an entire class of citizens (racism and homophobia). The repercussions are completely different, and we can work to eliminate the homophobic slurs.

I don’t care about spinning trash talk or digging deep or looking hard. That isn’t the case here, so it’s not applicable.

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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

but it is the case. Simmonds wasn’t intending to make a slur against homosexuals. This wasn’t a premediated attempt to put down others. It is was a slip up that was blown out of proportion.

If it was meant as a homophobic slur I’m all for blowing things up and making it an issue…

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

sorry i shouldn’t have said making it an issue, it should be addressing the issue.

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s the thing, though. Calling someone a faggot is a slur against homosexuals, regardless of intent.

by ohnickels on Sep 27, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bam.

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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

A) How do you know what his intent was?
B) Intent doesn’t matter. It’s a word that shouldn’t have been said. Simmonds needs to know that, and every person needs to know that.

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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Intent does matter.

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

No it doesn’t. And neither does the result.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Sep 27, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Avery....

Don’t worry about Avery, he will hit the waiver wire soon.

My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.

by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 8:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Dissapointed.

Its touchy and I don’t want to get into why, but I wanted to quote something Geoff said because I think its important.

It’s real easy for a heterosexual white man to say "get thicker skin", since I’m betting nobody has ever oppressed you or discriminated against you based on your sexual orientation, gender, or race.

And even then, if you champion for any of those things. You have gay family, your best friend is of another race, you just don’t agree with anyone spouting “This is the way its always been so that makes it right.”

I have to say there are a lot of comments in this thread that disappoint me far worse than anything Simmonds did last night.

My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.

by 02h32m01s on Sep 27, 2011 10:22 AM EDT reply actions  

I should have said:

And even then, if you champion for any of those things. You have gay family, your best friend is of another race, you just don’t agree with anyone spouting "This is the way its always been so that makes it right." You will find out very quickly how thin your skin really is.

My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.

by 02h32m01s on Sep 27, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Again, I totally agree and don’t want to get in a debate, beacuse we see things from similar points of view. Unfortunately, no matter how hard we try there are going to be others that do take the low road and it’s not just in race or sexual relations. People are labelled jocks, hicks, nerds and are treated unfairly by people all the time. It isn’t right and we should stand up to this, but the fact of the matter is some times you have to take the high road; know that you are right and move on. Everyone has been treated unfairly sometime in their life and will be again, the only person you can have 100% control of is yourself. If you focus on all the negatives that happend in your life, it’s going to be damn tough to be a positive person.

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure jocks haven’t been oppressed. I don’t like that comparison at all.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not talking about people be oppressed I’m talking about responding to negatives from other people and blowing things out of context. How about walking to a game with yor gear and a group of guys come up and say ‘you f’in jock, were going to kick the F out of you after the game’ is this opressive to the person in that situation. Yes.

A guy driving a truck to school and gets his tires slashed for being a hick. Is this oppresive? Yes.

What I’m trying to say is it is how you deal with the situation is what is important. Your 12 year old comment to me is a scape goat.

If my son is a 12 year old in this situation I don’t tell him to make his teammate apologize to him, I tell him that people are going to use words that may or may not be intended to hurt you. Your friend might have said a bad word but he was just trying to stick up for you. We will all have moments where we are going to be treated badly, you have to believe in yourself and realize that you can’t control other peoples actions.

This is getting into hypothetical situations, but we are all going to be oppressed at some time and have to try to take the high road.

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

is this opressive to the person in that situation.

That’s not even close to “oppression”. It’s a threat. They are two completely, distinctly different things.

I don’t think you have any idea what “oppression” is if you think slashing someone’s tires is oppression.

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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

People are oppreessed every day in the job force, at school, at the bus stop.

You are thinking general I’m talking specifics. Kids every day are going through oppression and bullying not because they are gay, not because they are a different race, but because they are different. It is oppressive if it is a continual display and to ignore that is being hypocritical. These other factors do play a role at times, I agree, but to say that many people don’t got through oppression is not true. Unfortunately, it isn’t isolated and unfortuantely we can’t always control others actions, but we can control our own actions. I’m not saying that derogatory terms are justified, but by thinking they can be eliminated is niave. Education comes from both sides. The people that are making these decisions to make these comments and acts can sometimes be educated and can change, some are unwilling too. What we can do is provide support to those who are oppressed and help them with to deal with the oppression, whether it be a global issue of an isolated cause.

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bullying and oppression are so completely different.

If you wish to compare oppressed homosexuals to the kid who gets his books knocked out of his hands, I’m no longer going to discuss this with you.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s ok if you don’t want to discuss things, but getting your books knocked out of your hands can be part of being oppressed. It happens all the time in schools and is a much bigger issue than someone letting a word slip by mistake. Suicide rate in kids is at all time high. Why? because kids are oppressed at school by contiunual acts of premeditated cruelty. You are missing the point. Bullying and oppression are very closley related on an individual basis. If you wake up every moning and are scared to go to class, feel like you have no control of your life and are being bullied every day you are being oppressed to the extreme.

1. to burden with cruel or unjust impositions or restraints; subject to a burdensome or harsh exercise of authority or power: a people oppressed by totalitarianism.
2. to lie heavily upon (the mind, a person, etc.): Care and sorrow oppressed them.
3. to weigh down, as sleep or weariness does.
4. Archaic . to put down; subdue or suppress.
5. Archaic . to press upon or against; crush

Oppression happens daily to many people and helping people deal with it is a means to deal with issues that they may not have control of and the bottom line is you only have 100 % control of your own actions.

by mclellan on Sep 27, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Truth. I do expect some level of unexamined privilege, to use an annoying social justice term, on a blog that’s majority straight white dudes, but I have to say I’ve always been pleased at how not just the masthead, but lots of regular commenters, will shut down homophobic/misogynistic/etc talk on BSH. It sucks that some people think their right to say a word trumps other people’s rights not to be told they’re worthless, but I’m glad it’s a view that’s not being allowed to go unchallenged here.

by ohnickels on Sep 27, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I really don’t think fa**ot is a homophobic slur any more. That’s why it’s said so much and without much thought. It’s more along the lines of pu**y. The coverage of the media and making such a stink about it and labeling it as homophobic is what gives it that power.

by MrDioji on Sep 27, 2011 10:30 AM EDT reply actions  

My Gay Brother's opinion on all of this...

My brother is Gay and has absolutely no problem with the word faggot or fag. He said it is used quite openly in the gay community and even when it is used in a hurtful manner it is simply shrugged off just as easily as calling someone any other name.

My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.

by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Unfortunately not everyone is capable of being thick-skinned like your brother. Numerous gay people have committed suicide stemming from name-calling and the use of that f-word.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, and numerous people committed suicide for being called other names as well. It happens all the time. The fact that Fag was used is really getting blown out of proportion. What if he called him a Fat ass? I guess we would be all up in arms for all the fat people in the world? Some how I doubt it.

Some people just need to realize that this world is not a fuzzy warm place, full of peace and love. You cannot make it this way no matter what you do.

Does it make is right to call someone a hurtful name? No, it doesn’t but it still happens.

Avery said things that he shouldn’t have said and so did Simmonds, it’s time get over it and move on.

My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.

by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

What is with all the terrible analogies?

Fat people aren’t discriminated against in our laws, in our religions, in our churches, in our governments, and in our schools.

Holy crap, can we stop equating homosexuals – and the slurs against them – to anything less than a class of citizens discriminated against by the highest levels of our society?

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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ask a fat person if they are discriminated against by any of the groups you just listed and I guarantee the answer you get will surprise you.

You can spin discrimination on anything that the so called “majority” doesn’t agree with.

Discrimination is Discrimination, they are all bad. Period.

My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.

by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t believe all discrimination is the same. I believe it’s worth differentiating between individual and group discrimination; and discrimination that is written into the law vs. social discrimination; and discrimination that leads to poor self-esteem and that which leads to lynching.

Was a fat black person told to sit in the back of the bus because he was fat? Is a fat gay person unable to enjoy all the legal benefits of marriage on a national level because he is fat?

by flyersfaninchicago on Sep 27, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s good point, but I still feel there is no scale of severity when it comes to discrimination its all bad and if there was a scale to it the Jews would be at the top of that list by far.

And no, a Fat Black person is not told to sit in the back of the bus, but they are told they have to pay for an extra plane ticket when flying. ;)

My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.

by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure the “f-word” may have been used in those cases, but that’s not the problem. I’m sure similar results would have happened if people ostracized them with politically correct terms and made fun of them for “practicing sodomy and fellatio with members of the same sex”.

by MrDioji on Sep 27, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

But what if you had another brother who is gay and he doesn’t shrug it off? What if his main connection with being called fag is the harassment he got on the job, or the beating he got on his way home one night?

Someone has that brother, perhaps someone you know, or who posts at BSH.

Words and actions are very different but name-calling makes it easier to pick up sticks and stones. Can you not see the value in at least trying to persuade at least some people to choose another word that doesn’t target an entire group? There are lots of words that one can choose.

And if it has to be “fag,” if that word is so much more effective than all the other words, how can one also say that it’ s not important?

by flyersfaninchicago on Sep 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

flyersfanchicago that is a very mature sensitive way of thinking and as I have gotten older I have become more sensitive but at 22 Simmonds age in the heat of competition when I am getting punched in the face and insulted I am not going to be able to filter my words or really think about what I am saying or even be sensitive enough to complex social issues or mature enough to understand what I said was offensive or wrong

by chrislanci on Sep 27, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree. I commented above about the limits in trying to apply civilized behavior to something like hockey. For me Simmonds is just the departure point for a larger discussion. Sport teaches us lessons about how and how not to conduct ourselves in our lives. Getting hung up about what Simmonds said in that moment is a distraction. Even his unwillingness to apologize afterwards doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a homophobe. It could be that his pride or stubborness is stronger than other parts of his character, which is also a good but different lesson.

The point is that when something like this happens it leads to hundreds if not thousands of discussions about what a particular slur means and whether it’s ok to say it. And when a few more people are persuaded it’s not ok to use it and who use it less themselves and tolerate it less in others, then there is a small shift that over time and multiplied makes a big difference. It really wasn’t that long ago that certain racial slurs were used casually and regularly by a lot of people.

by flyersfaninchicago on Sep 27, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

So it’s okay because he’s young? That doesn’t make much sense. For starters, it sure didn’t get me out of trouble for saying words I wasn’t supposed to say back in middle school. Man, my parents were so strict.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was a fouled mouth kid and I am still fouled mouth adult especially while watching sports or playing video games in middle school I would get corrected by my parents but when I was 22 years old they really couldn’t say shit to me any more about it. I am not nor do I wish to pretend to be Wayne Simmonds parents and sit here on my high horse slapping him on the wrist for doing something wrong. It is wrong and feel free to be offended by it and do whatever else you want to do as a result he is an adult and has to live with the consequences of his actions. I was not offended don’t think it was a homophobic comment and I am going to move on. If an empty scripted forced apology will make you feel different about someone as a human being I don’t think you enough about this issue. And if you can cheer for Mike Vick after all he did to living creatures much more deserving of life than Sean Avery this whole issue should be an after thought.

by chrislanci on Sep 27, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if you can cheer for Mike Vick after all he did to living creatures much more deserving of life than Sean Avery this whole issue should be an after thought.

Wow, that’s a hell of a jump there. Not sure what you’re going for with that, but I don’t cheer for Vick. So moving on…

Back to the topic at hand. While, I’m not offended personally by what Simmonds said, I still think it is a homophobic comment and it isn’t right. And I’m not looking for a scripted apology. That in itself doesn’t do anything. What I want is for people to understand that this is an unacceptable way to treat someone and for our society to figure out that we need to respect and tolerate people. If an apology/fine/whatever helps towards that goal, great. But I’m looking for something way bigger than just an apology and way bigger than Wayne Simmonds. He just has the unfortunate distinction of being the one to open the discussion this time.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Sep 27, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  


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