Tuesday Morning Fly By: Is It Safe to Say Read and Rinaldo Made the Team Yet?
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Recap: [BSH] [NHL Hot Stove]
- Wayne Simmonds was caught on camera using a homophobic slur last night: [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy] [Philly Sports Daily] [CSNPhilly] [Puck Buddys]
- While I - and I think I can say we here at BSH - have great respect for Anthony SanFilippo, I'm going to say that this post misses the point. Whether or not the slur is common, or was used against "a crumb", it is still something that should be eliminated from society. This is a good place to point that out: [In The Room]
- Tom Sestito is likely going to be suspended for this hit: [BSH] [Puck Daddy]
- Which means Zac Rinaldo is almost certainly going to make the team for at least as long as Sestito and Jody Shelley are suspended: [CSNPhilly] [Daily News]
- The Winter Classic was announced, which means lots of stories by the NHL. The coaches will have won more games than any other from the U.S. when they meet: [NHL.com]
- The Rangers expect an intense, physical game: [NHL.com]
- The Flyers are looking forward to hosting: [NHL.com]
- Ice man Dan Craig anticipates a slight challenge, but enjoys that sort of thing: [NHL.com]
- The Phillies are excited to host, even with being told the weather is their job: [NHL.com]
- The Phantoms will play the Hershey Bears on January 6th: [NHL.com] [PostStar.com]
- Several Flyers will be playing in their second Winter Classic, and they plan to enjoy this one more: [NHL.com]
- Go relive Danny Syvret Offensive Dynamo's goal in the Winter Classic: [Flyers Faithful]
- And video smack talk from Glen Sather and Ed Snider: [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy]
- A wish list for the alumni game: [Flyers Faithful]
- As training camp opens, the Phantoms have high expectations this year: [PostStar.com]
- Looking at Jaromir Jagr and his return: [SI.com]
- Brayden Schenn is among the Calder Trophy candidates: [NHL.com]
- The Future Flyers Weekly Report this week stars but one man: Derek Mathers: [Flyers Faithful]
- The Flyers should trade for Frans Nielsen today. That's hyperbole, but Nielsen could be a cheaper Manny Malhotra: [Hockey Prospectus]
- James Wisniewski was suspended for the rest of the preseason and 8 regular season games. I think Brendan Shannahan is serious about this stuff: [SBNation.com]
- Look at Todd Bertuzzi's between-the-legs shootout goal. It's nice: [Puck Daddy]
- Tips to dominate your fantasy hockey draft: [Down Goes Brown]
- Non-hockey, but still poignant: Looking at John Lackey and the myth perpetuated by the media that some players can't handle the pressure of big cities: [Deadspin]
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From Car Bomb to Bat Shit, who would have thought, Lol
And did Jagr look great last night or what? The G & J Pairing has me really excited for the season to start.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
Jagr has surprised the hell out of me. He moves around like he’s in his 20’s and he is always near the puck. At least from what I saw, which admittedly, was not much.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I was there, he looked fantastic on the puck and was in great positions for passes at even strength, not to mention QB’ing the pp like a champion. At the end of the game, he made a nice move up the center of the ice, shrugging off a few defenders and using his size and speed. I’m very excited to watch him this season especially with G dishing the brilliant feeds.
The only thing I’m slightly worried about is his ability to keep the pace through the whole season + playoffs. I don’t think it’ll be a problem though. If he starts to wear down, he’d be worth it just to keep out there on the PP
It’s about damn time. Good to see things are transparent and consistent. It’s the only way to clean up the game.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
Your not kidding on that. But from what I can see happening, and don’t get me wrong, making players accountable and making the game safer for the players is the right way to go, but now it seems that every little thing is being scrutinized and made out to be a bigger deal than ever before. Sure its nice to be inside the game more than what has been in the past, but all this drama bullshit is getting old. I really couldn’t care if Avery is a fag and Simmonds is black, if Richards and Carter were closet drunks, I want to see a hockey game and hear about hockey, not watch a game and read about it like its a soap opera. The more and more main stream hockey becomes, the more crap people can find to put a negative spin on it. I am sure its great for your novice fan to get a realistic attachment the game since most don’t know nor even care what a left wing lock is or why the play is called dead after the puck is thrown up the ice and touch past the goal. Its just my take. I read and watch hockey for the action, speed, skill, and on the rare occasion two players beating the crap out of each other. I don’t know, maybe its just me, but I don’t think this is a good thing.
Leino = $$$
by flyerfreek on Sep 27, 2011 11:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
People need to get off the politically correct high horse with this Simmonds thing. Is what he said right of course not but come on they’re guys beating and banging on each other. Tempers will flare things will be said it happens all the time. Seriously enough with the poor me glass feelings stuff. And puck daddy referencing the kobe fine and Noah fine, those were to a ref and fan not another player. I think there’s a giant difference between trash talk between players and saying something to the ref or fan.
by profoundnotions on Sep 27, 2011 8:16 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
This. If Avery can’t handle being called a name that literally every male human being has been called at some point, it sounds like a personal problem. When people get offended by something that isn’t directed at them and was meant just between two people, that’s obnoxious.
No to mention the threats against G during the game. The NFL fines players for a throat slashing move, does that mean we should fine people for death threats in the game too? Do we really want to go down this road? No.
If Avery can’t take abuse, he should rethink every word that has ever come out of his mouth. Something about a goose and a gander…
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
how is calling someone a faggot more of a headliner than avery threatening that to effing kill giroux?
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t it? I find the whole concept of “swear words” fascinating. It’s completely arbitrary. You can have multiple words for the same thing, but some are good and some are bad. Feces is fine. Poop is fine. Crap can be borderline, depending who you ask. But shit, that’s a bad one! Somehow our society has attached different connotations to each of these words, and as a result, some are considered vulgar. And then there’s the rules of what can and cannot be said on television, which have changed even during my lifetime. Fascinating.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
7 words you can’t say on television
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
by Mike B on D on Sep 27, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
it really is fascinating. I feel like I want to become a sociologist and study as to why people do this.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
People like you are the problem. Because you want to ignore this. This is not about discipline, and it is not about Avery. This is about the word and what it means to those who are gay and are called it. Glass feelings? Try telling that to these kids. Oh wait, you can’t. They’re dead.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wouldn’t it be more productive to change the culture of the country and work toward giving gays the same rights as everyone else has, i.e. the right to marry?
Policing what is said on the ice is on a low totem pole for me.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Both are equally important. In order for there to be acceptance of rights, intolerance must be eliminated.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
by Justin F. on Sep 27, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting. Were you aware that things like this were said on the ice before yesterday? Because I assumed so. Especially when Avery is involved. Why did no one seem to care before this incident?
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. I was aware it gets said more than once on the ice, and I am aware it gets said more than once, and Simmonds is not the only person who says it.
And therein lies the problem.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I would suggest that you, if not a regular poster, not make assumptions about those who are.
In terms of this Justin F. wrote a lot about intolerance and racism less than a week ago here and on his blog / twitter / etc.
Its not like members are suddenly bandwagoning on the issues.
There have also been very pro tolerance articles here on Avery’s involvement, Burke’s involvement, and the Stanley Cup appearing in the Chicago Gay Pride Parade last year.
“No one caring before now” is just straight up ludicrous.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
by 02h32m01s on Sep 27, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not really talking about just this site, or anyone in general. The reaction to Avery has been disappointing. This is a guy who gets paid to annoy other people and says some nasty stuff, and Simmonds comes back at him with an unfortunate word. And suddenly it seems like sports or the hockey world at least has a tolerance problem.
I guess what I’m saying is what is said on the ice didn’t seem to be an issue until yesterday. Not saying that people aren’t for tolerance. I frankly don’t care what is said on the ice, because I’m there to see people play hockey, not insult each other in a respectful manner. It’s a little difficult to have a discussion on this site when that opinion is met with calls of “ignorance” or “naivete” or whatever.
I’m for tolerance, but let’s teach it at home and in the schools before we even worry about what is said on the ice. This whole thing seems to be a PR issue more than anything.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re being respectful, why bother insulting someone? Doesn’t that take the fun out of it? Just kidding here.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
But there’s a difference between insults, (dis)respect, and intolerance. It’s subtle, it’s fuzzy, it’s shades of grey sometimes, but it’s there. Yeah, the guys are gonna talk trash on the ice, but there are some things that cross a line, and this is one of them. As for this:
I guess what I’m saying is what is said on the ice didn’t seem to be an issue until yesterday.That’s because it was caught on camera yesterday. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen before that. Certainly doesn’t mean it wasn’t wrong before that. But catching it on camera has brought it to the front of our attention. It’s forcing us to address the issue instead of blissfully ignoring it as we always have with a “what happens on the ice stays on the ice.” It’s an intolerant remark and it shouldn’t have been said, whether we’re aware of it being said or not.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I don’t disagree with what you said, but it seems that this is only an issue because faggot can be a slang for gay person, and Avery seems to care somewhat about gay people. However, Avery has said countless bad things about females, and I’m sure says them repeatedly on the ice, whether it’s calling someone a pussy or what.
In my opinion, this was less about intolerance than Avery trying to distract people from the bad game he played. And it seemed to have worked pretty well.
If you don’t want intolerant things said on the ice, then how do you police that? Do you have cameras everywhere, or mics on every player? Does the word pussy get a fine too now? It was hypocritical of Avery to bring it up with what he has said on the ice in his career.
I am all for tolerance, but this is really, really picking a fight with something that matters very little in the grand scheme of things. Do I really want to know what is said on the ice and in the locker room? I really don’t care. Does it matter when that word is said elsewhere and in different situations? Yes it can.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I am all for tolerance, but this is really, really picking a fight with something that matters very little in the grand scheme of things. Do I really want to know what is said on the ice and in the locker room? I really don’t care. Does it matter when that word is said elsewhere and in different situations? Yes it can.
And this is my problem with the situation, the posts today, and the general atmosphere of whats going on.
There’s never a time when its not a “big deal” or it “doesn’t matter” any more or less than any other time.
The fact is words and names have power, and trying to brush that off in any context is a travesty.
Simply put, the fact that this instance of its use is now out in the public and that makes it MUCH more powerful then if I said it to you, or you to me, or any context where one of us would find it a “Big Deal” personally.
For a site that is stat heavy here is one for you. If you go by some of the most conservative surveys in Canada, 1% of male pollers self identify as homosexual. Of the 690 players, even at these miniscule (compared to some US surveys) numbers say about 7 should be gay. How many openly gay Pro players can you name?
If we’re going to rule out anomolies then there is probably at least 10 gay players, all in the closet. So does whats said on the ice and in the locker room matter to them, their families, friends and loved ones? Do they think its a “big deal?”
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Teams should educate their own players regarding these things. My issue is that Avery had to bring attention to it through the media. He’s a smart guy, and he knew exactly what he was doing when he answered the questions. He made himself look good and Simmonds and the Flyers look bad. Which is rich, coming from a scumbag like Avery.
Does the league really need to police these things because the teams or players are unable to deal with these things themselves? If that’s the case, then I find that pretty sad.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
My issue is that Avery had to bring attention to it through the media.
Once again, this is not what happened. The media already had the story – Puck Daddy had video posted on Twitter, SBNation.com had the story posted – before 9:30 pm last night.
Avery didn’t bring attention to it, the media asked him about it.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You are pretty hung up on this…he still answered the questions.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
All he said was “yeah,” basically. It’s not like he said “OH MY GOD HE CALLED ME A NAME GUYS GUYS LOOK OVER HERE I WANT ATTENTION”
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by Travis Hughes on Sep 27, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s not be facetious. He said more than just yeah. He wanted Simmonds to get fined, and all that. Kind of surprising this kind of arguing is coming from the bloggers here. Reminds me of why I’m not a regular here, to be honest.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m only pushing back because of the notion that he raised the subject to the media. That’s just not what happened.
Shit, I can’t stand Avery. I’d love to call him out for the gutless punk that he is, and whining to the media about something said on the ice is a perfect example of that. But he didn’t bring it up.
The transcript:
Q: Did he call you what we think he called you?
"Well, yeah."
Q: Is he going to say that there was anything as a precursor?
"I mean, I certainly hope not. Are you implying that it would be from something that I said?"
No, I was just asking.
"No, I mean from my end. I certainly wasn’t."
Q: Are you familiar with what happened with him last week?
"Yeah, it is really disappointing. First of all, who would do that? And why would you do it? It just such an unnecessary thing. It’s something that’s not even an issue with us or our sport. So to be here now and having to answer your questions about what he did is disappointing for me."
Q: Do you feel like when someone does something like that they should be treated in a similar context (inaudible)?
"I mean Kobe got fined 100 grand. Everything is different now. You know, it’s an issue. It is an issue that people are dealing with and trying to overcome. And I guess ten years ago, maybe it was not such an issue. But it is such an issue politically with people in the game and just in life in general."
Q: Is there concern that you were kind of vocal with the video you did this summer that players will come back against you?
"I mean, it has been said. It has been said for years. Whether I thought about it in that sense, I don’t know."
He had every opportunity to go on a tirade here and didn’t. The only time he said much of anything was when he talked about the issue in general. He didn’t even say explicitly that Simmonds should be fined, just noting that Kobe was fined for the same thing.
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by Travis Hughes on Sep 27, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, for the 76th time today, I never said Avery went to the media first. I said they asked him questions and he didn’t have to answer them, much like what Simmonds did when he was asked what Avery said.
I’ve said this over and over today. He didn’t go on a tirade, and he wasn’t asked first. I know that. But the issue could’ve been handled privately. I’m sure Avery thought that it would distract from his bad game, AND give him some media press.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the notion that it could’ve been handled privately when it was broadcast on national television is the part I have a problem with.
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Broad Street Hockey - Covering the Philadelphia Flyers. Have you accepted Ilya Bryzgalov as your savior?
by Travis Hughes on Sep 27, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Avery could’ve still let it slide. I didn’t even notice what happened after seeing that part of the game until it was brought up.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Which brings us back to my point above: why would Avery let it slide? He’s very publicly campaigned against this kind of discriminatory and hateful speech.
I honestly don’t think it makes a difference whether Avery brought it up or not. He has every right to ask the NHL to limit certain kinds of speech.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I think the way he did it was wrong. And especially considering what he has said to players in the past.
Even though Simmonds was wrong to use that word, he took the high road by not ratting out Avery and what he said to Simmonds. Avery could’ve done the same thing.
Did he have to clarify to the media what he said? I don’t think so. He could’ve handled it differently, in my opinion. It was a little bit breaking the hockey code…what is said on the ice and locker rooms stays there. If the player says it while mic’ed up, that’s another thing.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
And especially considering what he has said to players in the past.
Instead of condemning him for what he has done in the past, maybe give him some credit for something positive he is trying to do now. We as people are all entitled to be able to change ourselves for the better.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
The guy has been rumored to call black players monkeys, made jokes about cancer, got kicked off the Dallas Stars and was forced to undergo anger management by the league, they made the Avery rule after him, was called “the worst teammate I’ve ever had” by Lappy, and so on. He’s a sack of shit. Even if he does support gay rights, I can’t like him any more.
He’s involved in the fashion industry, which has a lot of gay people, so I’m sure that’s why it’s an issue close to his heart. But it’s Avery. He has no place in hockey, in my opinion.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t have to like him, and you don’t have to think he has to have a place in hockey to give him some credit for doing something positive. There are a lot of people I don’t care for in this world, but when they do something good, I’m happy about it. In the larger picture of the world, this is something good.
Your comments just lead me to believe that you are so anti Avery that you are just looking for a reason to place any kind of blame on him you can, and that’s fine, but I think it takes a lot of the validity away from what you are arguing about how Avery shouldn’t have answered the question.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I guess I just don’t put a lot of stock in the hockey code as isolation against change. If Avery heard something he didn’t like, this issue doesn’t change itself unless he acts.
Similarly, if Simmonds heard certain words from players on other teams that he didn’t like, I don’t think he needs to play it easy. He seems to not want to have that issue stands for who he is, which is a perfectly fine choice to make, but I think it’s less likely to change on its own.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I see what you’re saying. I think my issue is that comments on the ice aren’t intended for the public. If they were, I’m sure they’d say a ton of stuff differently, Avery included.
I remember hearing ex-Flyers say the stuff that is said on the ice would make anyone sick to their stomach sometimes. If that’s how it is on the ice, it’s a little unfair to pick out Simmonds, in my opinion.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but this one got caught on tape, the media asked about it, and was therefore made public. Whether Avery responds or not, the media and tape made it public enough, and that can’t be put on Avery.
We live in a different world now, look at social media, everyone has to be so much more careful about what they say and do. Anyone at any time can be caught by a cell phone video, and have it made public. If a politician is joking around with a friend in a private conversation, uses the “f” word, and someone catches him on camera, it’s now public. That conversation was never meant to be for the public, but now it is…I don’t see this as any different. people just need to be more self aware now. It’s a downside/upside to technology depending how you look at it.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
The counter-arguments to that are:
a) Avery would probably object to private use just the same as public, and I don’t think that affects the merits of his argument.
b) Simmonds should have no reason to think his speech in an NHL game at an NHL rink while wearing an NHL uniform is protected from NHL discipline just because it’s custom.
I’m not sure how much I agree with that second part, and that seems to be a major part of your point.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I’m sure he would object to public and private use. That’s understandable.
And if it was against the NHL rules, then Simmonds should be fined. But you have to keep in mind the ref was right there, and nothing happened. From my understanding, that word gets thrown around at least once every game. To single out Simmonds in that instance was unfair by the media, and in my opinion, Avery for running with it.
I think people might be upset by this because it exposes something we don’t want to think about much, but kind of knew it went on in hockey games anyway. Would the NHL have done anything if it wasn’t confirmed by Avery? Probably not. That’s my issue. It’s a little bit of a double standard. Either enforce it always, or don’t enforce it at all.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Would the NHL have done anything if it wasn’t confirmed by Avery? Probably not.
I disagree, there is pretty clear visual evidence, and the league can ask the official that was there to confirm what was said. Again, I don’t think Avery confirming this or not answering it would have played a major factor in the disciplinary process. It would only take one media outlet to run the story, and that would be enough attention for the league having to at least look in to it from a disciplinary and PR perspective. The fact that the question was asked would lead me to believe that someone was going to write about it regardless of the answer Avery gave.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Hmm, well I remember watching the sequence and didn’t think anything of it until it was brought up after the game. It may be impossible to tell what would’ve happened if Avery hadn’t confirmed the comment.
I think the refs are well aware of what is said on the ice. And I think the issue here is that the NHL might’ve HAD to deal with it because of the PR it would result in.
I guess I’m just annoyed because if it’s said on the ice and it doesn’t get on camera, I guess it doesn’t matter. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if Simmonds will get thrown under the bus further for something that is apparently not uncommon.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
And that’s a larger social issue. The video was already up, as Travis and Geoff had mentioned. So that was made public information. The mdeia members were clearly aware of it since they asked the question. Now if you have a problem with Simmonds being punished because he simply got caught, then I completely get where you are coming from, whether I agree or disagree, I totally get it. However, I don’t get pinning the blame on Avery.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Yes, I do have a problem with Simmonds getting punished simply because he was caught.
I don’t give Avery the full blame. I give the media part of the blame, Avery part of the blame, and Simmonds part of the blame for using the word.
It just seems like it matters now because someone got caught, and the NHL doesn’t want to look bad, when it’s really been going on for a while. That annoys me.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally understand that POV. This is the world we live in now. So many things that aren’t intended for the public’s eyes or ears get caught on camera and are immediately made public on the web. We all have to be so much more aware of what we do and say, maybe that’s not a bad thing, maybe it is…up to the individual person’s beliefs I guess.
I just wanted to respond to you because, as a person who has a great dislike for Avery, I thought he did the right thing in this situation. Now if he hadn’t have publicly supported gay marriage, I would have a different opinion probably.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Good points. It’s just hard for me to stomach Avery involved in this because of his horrible past history of saying over the line things on the ice to get people off their game.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Or I guess my other point is, why didn’t Avery care about this issue on the ice before yesterday?
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably because he is still trying to find the balance of what he believes in and some of those unwritten rules in hockey, like “what happens on the ice, stays on the ice”. But when it was already made public, and he was asked about it, I believe he has a responsibility to his cause to answer the question. To me it then goes beyond the codes of the game (I don’t want to create another argument of when the breaking point is) because someone else brought the issue off the ice,a nd it’s an issue he is directly involve din in his personal life.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I totally get what you’re saying. And I see where Avery is coming from to. I think the issue that comes from it now is, what is fair game on the ice? Is everything open to scrutiny? Or is it just certain words? Are wives and girlfriends still fair game? What is allowed and what is not allowed? And why wasn’t it policed before, if certain things are being said all the time? I don’t expect you to answer that, I’m just asking rhetorical questions.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, totally get where you are coming from with those question, and that’s why I have stayed out of this for most of the day. Because, well, I think it raises so many questions, some of which approach ridiculousness, and none of which has a good answer.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Agreed, which is why I would’ve hoped it could’ve been handled privately. Who knows if that could’ve happened, but obviously it didn’t, so whatever.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said Avery went to the media first.
You didn’t? I clearly have no idea who is who around here anymore today.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Same here. See some of my replies. I somehow accused Mike B on D of saying something he never said.
/head hurts
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Never said it…and if I did, I’m sure I’ve been corrected by Travis and the other guy 70 times already.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Kind of surprising this kind of arguing is coming from the bloggers here. Reminds me of why I’m not a regular here, to be honest.
I’m a stickler for words. When you say incorrect statements like: “”http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2011/9/27/2451902/tuesday-morning-fly-by-is-it-safe-to-say-read-and-rinaldo-made-the#78596979" >"Avery had to bring attention to it through the media"“; ”http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2011/9/27/2451902/tuesday-morning-fly-by-is-it-safe-to-say-read-and-rinaldo-made-the#78595532" >"Avery trying to distract people from the bad game he played", and “Avery drew media attention to it”, I’m going to push back.
The transcript reveals that Avery didn’t bring attention to it – the media did. Avery didn’t try to distract people, he even said “So to be here now and having to answer your questions about what he did is disappointing for me.”
You are highly encouraged to have a differing opinion. But if you make a statement that is false during a disagreement, I don’t think pointing out the falsehood is argumentative.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’d rather argue semantics than actually debate things, that’s your call. I’ve clarified what I meant a number of times, and yet you only jump in with, “actually, he didn’t bring it to the media.” Yeah, I know.
Good day.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Does the league really need to police these things because the teams or players are unable to deal with these things themselves? If that’s the case, then I find that pretty sad.
Yes. Plain and simple.
If I’m at work and called a co-worker a Fag I would be sent in for disciplinary action and most likely fired.
Even if my department (team) was o.k. with it, if that kind of garbage was overheard by someone from another office I would be reported and I would be gone.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Sounds like the culture needs to change, then. Which it is with younger people. Which is why I think being so worried about what is said on the ice is a waste of time. That won’t change until the culture shift happens.
Our own government demonizes gay people by not letting them marry. Same thing happend to blacks and other races…interracial marriage has only been legal since 1964 or whatever. Once that happened, people stopped giving a shit about it. Nothing will change until people realize gay people aren’t going to give them AIDS or make out with them in their sleep.
People are afraid of what they don’t know. I’ve been living in the Gayborhood for 10 years and have been hit on by other guys every now and then. Couldn’t care less. The more people come out and the more everyone knows some gay people, the more tolerant they will be. Policing what is said on the ice will do nothing…it will only mask the problem because they’re not using certain words now.
There’s still racists even though you can’t say the N word like you used to.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Then I am happy for you that this has never effected your life in a negative way.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Did you even read what I wrote? What kind of a response is that?
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Every word of it.
You live somewhere you feel comfortable, you aren’t offended if a man flirts with you. Your somewhere you feel is tolerant and good things like change are occurring.
So I reiterate, I am happy for you that in your life the issue has not effected you, personally, negatively.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Oh I see, my bad. I read the comment in a negative tone, but it seems I read it wrong.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Its hard sometimes to get tone through text, especially if you are on different sides of an argument.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Very true. Easy to misread something.
The internet isn’t the greatest place to debate, sometimes :)
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
wait -“Once that happened, people stopped giving a shit about it.”
on what planet do you live on? because it’s not Earth at all. People VERY much still give a HUGE shit about this.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Not to the point where it was being said that interracial marriage would tarnish humanity and mix races in a bad way.
Of course it’s not 100% not an issue, but I’m pretty certain most people accept interracial marriage these days.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say most but I do agree that it’s not AS big of a deal these days in the younger set. the older however still hold onto that. especially in the less affluent neighborhoods like mine.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
I agree. I’ve said here that the older the generation, the less tolerant they are. The younger culture these days are much more tolerant of everyone because they’ve been exposed to everyone. Not as many people were openly gay 20 or 30 years ago. Hell, just now you can openly serve in the military.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i live in orange county, the must affluent county in the country, and it’s not really accepted
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there’s a very large difference between an office setting and a hockey rink. There has been worse said to me and people I work with on a daily basis. Seriously certain jobs come with certain territories. Would you honestly expect not to hear someone be called a pussy on a construction site full of men? You don’t think girls say some awful nasty things about girls they know in their jobs. I’ve been witness to it directly. Now these are generalizations to a greatest extent but point is certain work environments have different rules. If you are offended then find a new job
by profoundnotions on Sep 27, 2011 2:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think there’s a very large difference between an office setting and a hockey rink.
Shouldn’t be. Intolerance is intolerance.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Ideally, you are right. But realistically, that is not the case. People should be educated more about intolerance from a young age, rather than be told what they can and cannot say as far as words go. Because the words themselves don’t mean much, it’s how they are used that make a difference.
Which is why the gay culture has reclaimed fag and queer and homo, and made it a positive thing. Much like blacks and the n word have done.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
People should be educated more about intolerance from a young age, rather than be told what they can and cannot say as far as words go. Because the words themselves don’t mean much, it’s how they are used that make a difference.
Agreed.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
My friend is insulted any time I use the word Gay. In his words, “I worked awfully hard to be a Fag and you can’t take that way from me!”
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
See I think my problem is I’m young and I already see everyone as equals. Obviously what kind of person you are is important but just because you’re gay or african american or irish whatever it is that doesn’t change my initial opinion of you. Personally I don’t care. It’s only when your actions affect me that I care. So honestly get married have kids they should have every single right and liberty afforded to a man and woman. But because I view them as equals, no I’m not as tolerant to put up with oh poor me I got called a word. Now I’m not talking about the little shits in schools that bully constantly. That is absolutely ridiculous and have been on the receiving end of the bullying many times before. But again huge contrast to someone throwing out a this is gay. Plus words have multiple meanings. The F word doesn’t just mean a swear anymore. Youtube meaning of the F word if you haven’t already. Gay has different meanings now. Its a word. Of course I’m sure with the way things are today if we still grunted like cave men someone would find a way to be insulted by the wrong grunt
by profoundnotions on Sep 27, 2011 3:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
do you not realize that the ONLY way people learn anything is if it hits them in the wallet? for the most part, not so much for super rich people since a $2500 fine is like a sandwhich for these players, but yes the quickest way to teach that things are wrong is in the wallet.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Eh, not necessarily.
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by Travis Hughes on Sep 27, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Lenny Bruce just rolled over in his grave.
The fact is words and names have power, and trying to brush that off in any context is a travesty.
No. Wrong. Incorrect. Words only have the power you give them. They don;t hurt unless you let them. They can’t cut you, bruise you or break your bones. The words have no power on their own. The IDEAS and THOUGHTS behind them that lead to trouble. It’s a very important distinction.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
Mike, I like you, I like your posts. But I am going to disagree with this statement with something personal and then not bring it up again.
I am not speaking of being called names, I am speaking to the connotations, as you say the thoughts and ideas behind them.
I had one word, not even a slur cost me something very important to me, regarding this exact issue. So its not wrong nor is it incorrect. Words have the power that anyone is willing to give them or take from them.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
I do not see how you are disagreeing with me. The only distinction I make is that I say “they have the power you give them” and you say anyone.
The difference is that I can control and change myself. I cannot change other people.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
No. Wrong. Incorrect. Words only have the power you give them. They don;t hurt unless you let them. They can’t cut you, bruise you or break your bones.
This is the part I was disagreeing with. Even if I don’t give them that power, others still can. And even if names cannot hurt me, the way names are used and how they effect people can directly effect me.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Then you are letting the names hurt you. They do not directly do anything to you. The connotations and ideas being used behind them bother you. It’s the actions taken because of those ideas, that have an effect on you.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
Let me illustrate my point:
WARNING VERY STRONG LANGUAGE. Seriously, it’s like watching a Tarantino film.
Might want the headphones for this one. But it illustrates my point beautifully.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
I still don’t think this is really about Avery. The reporters brought it up, not him. And he chose to answer their question instead of sweep it under the rug. But I agree, he’s said a lot of inappropriate things in the past too.
I guess what I don’t see is why things said on the ice can get a pass if it’s considered bad elsewhere. If it’s bad, it shouldn’t be said anywhere. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want there to be cameras everywhere or mics on every player to police what they say. That’s silly. But if there really was tolerance, it wouldn’t have happened at all.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
You’re right, that if it’s bad, it shouldn’t be said anywhere. But I know and I’m sure you know that’s not going to happen. My issue is that Avery drew media attention to it in this instance, and after all he’s said to other players. Is he really not a strong enough person to brush it off, much like Simmonds did with the banana incident, or the racist comments he’s heard on the ice most likely throughout his career?
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
You should then be comforted to know that your issue has been resolved, since Avery didn’t draw media attention to this.
Argument over :)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He answered the questions. Simmonds could’ve easily said what Avery said to him to set him off, but he didn’t. Avery could’ve said, “well, we were both going at it and it was getting heated, but whatever…”
So yes, the media asked first, but Avery gave them exactly what they wanted.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
So your whole issue is that Sean Avery answered “yeah” to a reporter’s question.
This has nothing to do with Sean Avery, except that people don’t like him. So they’re using him as an excuse for what Simmonds said, and as a push back against the story.
But the story got out even before Sean Avery saw a reporter. Wayne Simmonds said an offensive word, and it doesn’t matter if he said it to Matt Cooke, Sean Avery, the Pope, or Neil Patrick Harris.
So please stop distracting from the issue by criticizing Sean Avery. He’s not relevant in the discussion.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He said a lot more than yeah. You keep saying this has nothing to do with Avery, but it does. It does because he has stood up for gay marriage, and he is also a fucking scumbag of a human being who invites these kinds of comments from other players and then goes to whine about them.
You have said all day he’s not relevant to the discussion, but he is. Is hockey also not relevant to the discussion? Let’s take that out too. Let’s take all the context out.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Because using a homophobic slur is the issue. Nobody “invites” those comments simply because they are effective at their job.
Unless you’re saying Wayne Simmonds purposefully targeted Avery because of his stance on gay marriage, Avery’s stance on gay marriage is irrelevant.
If you think Sean Avery invites “these kinds of comments” because of who he is, you are coming awfully close to saying, if anything is said to Sean Avery, it isn’t offensive.
Sean Avery takes the issue completely away from what the issue is. Hockey is only relevant as the vehicle here. The incident is being defended and tolerated as “part of the game”. In that respect, it’s relevant. Otherwise, it’s not.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
My next question is where you draw the line. If the NHL fines Simmonds for using that word (which I believe they should), then what comes next?
Calling someone a “pussy” is sexist (despite what you said on twitter…) and I’m sure that word gets thrown around like crazy on the ice.
by hebrew hammer on Sep 27, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
it hurts my feelings when people yell at me … we need to ban yelling too
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Calling someone a pussy is not sexist. I fail to see how it is.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I asked a women’s studies major, who said that by trying to degrade someone by associating them with female genitalia, you are in essence, belittling women. The implication is that all women are weaker, and the person being called a “pussy” is also weak or cowardly, like a woman.
I’m not saying it is as severe as words that begin with F and N, but that is because sexism is not what it was 400 years ago or even 100 years ago, while racism and homophobia are very much still problems on a daily basis. Regardless, the word’s implication is sexist. I only bring this up to show that it is actually very hard to draw a line anywhere without magically being able to get inside a person’s brain and pull out their intent.
Seemed somewhat relevant at the time.
by hebrew hammer on Sep 27, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Darnit, now I have to find new words or at least stick to male genitalia.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I admit that this is drastically different from the “jocks”, “nerds”, and “fat people” comparisons from elsewhere on the page, since women are a protected class.
Further, your logic – association —> implication —> derogatory – is sound. As is your distinguishing marks. In all, this is a sound argument.
I simply disagree. And I disagree because I don’t hear people discriminating against women by calling them pussies. That, to me, is the distinction that is crucial.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, I can agree with that assessment. There are ways to say “pussy” without the hate that is inherent in other words.
by hebrew hammer on Sep 27, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
:) You sir, have earned my admiration.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what, I’m just going to let you argue whatever you want, because it seems like you are not trying to understand what I am saying at all. I have discussed things with others on here and they have understood pretty well, even if they disagreed with me.
But I’m not going to waste my time arguing with someone who replies to things I never said or am not implying. If you really care about what my opinion is, and would like to discuss this further, you are welcome to read what I’ve wrote elsewhere on this page. But I’m not going to go back and forth with you only to get a “that’s not relevant” or “that’s naive” or “that’s ignorant”.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to be a dick, but at times today I’d say that first paragraph could apply to you too. Just sayin.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Disagree. I’ve had some nice discussions on here today, but with Geoff…no. I’ve gone in circles with him throughout the day. No reason for me to continue that.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand what you’re saying, in fact I’ve quoted you throughout the conversation. That’s not replying to things you never said, that’s quoting exactly what you said.
In fact, you said:
My issue is that Avery drew media attention to it in this instance
And since Avery didn’t draw media attention to it in this instance – which is almost exclusively what I’ve said in my replies to you – it is clear that your problem is with Avery. You’ve repeated variations of what I just quoted throughout the page, which is what I’ve repeatedly disputed.
If that is frustrating for you, know that it is frustrating for me to see you repeat yourself despite mountains of evidence that your statement is incorrect.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Jesus fucking Christ, dude. You are really selective in your replies. Semantics, again. I’ve had nice debates on here with people who know what I said, but you come back to one thing over and over. I am aware that Avery didn’t bring it up first. He didn’t have to answer any of their questions, though. I’m done with you.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sorry that you’re done with me, but the replies that appear to have angered you were all pointing out what you only now admit: That Avery didn’t bring it up first.
I replied to one comment where you proclaimed your issue to be that “Avery drew media attention to it in this instance”. I then replied to you saying “he answered the questions”, stating that he should have brushed it off, and he shouldn’t have given the media what they wanted.
You took issue with my reply, proclaiming Avery to have “invite[d] these kinds of comments”. When I took issue with that, you quit.
When I replied to you, I quoted you. I’m sorry if I quoted you out of context, but that was not a claim you made until you had already expressed frustration at discussing this with me.
So I’m sorry that I took your above comments to mean that Sean Avery made this an issue and invited the slurs if you are aware that Avery didn’t bring it up first. I kept coming back to “one thing over and over” because you had made the same claim in three separate places.
And the entire disagreement between us revolves around your claim that Sean Avery “invites” these comments, or somehow makes them less offensive by being the victim, or that somehow his confirmation of what was said – then expressing a distaste for discussing it – makes it worse.
But nowhere do I feel as though I was unfair to you, and nowhere did I call you “ignorant” or “naive”, as you implied I did/would. So I’m at a loss for how I am arguing semantics, or replying to things you never said, or implying things you never implied. But if my quotes are not what you meant, by all means, correct me.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, he admitted this earlier in the day and it does seem like you are hounding him.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
Was it before or after 3:34 p.m., the time I made the comment which elicited this response?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL, seriously, this thread is so unmanageable I can’t even tell anymore. I’d have to look and quite frankly, I don;t have time right now.
It was earlier and I distinctly felt wonder at you dropping that one point on him over and over again..
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
And after all this, no discipline for Simmonds. NHL couldn’t substantiate what was said per Dreger.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. And I was hounding him on the notion that Sean Avery “drew media attention to it” (2:35 p.m.), “had to bring attention to it through the media” (2:37 p.m.), and “trying to distract people from the bad game he played” (2:15 p.m.).
On three separate instances, the claim was that Avery made this an issue. But the transcript shows otherwise, as does the video being made public prior to the game even being over. When I brought this up, he then blamed Avery for “answer[ing] the questions”
It was only after Travis called him on it by re-posting the transcript did we get the clarification from him that he blames Avery for not saying “no comment” when asked.
That was at 3:56 p.m., sixteen minutes after he accused me of purposefully twisting his words.
He didn’t clarify his comments until after he complained about me.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I clarified it enough. Let it go.
No discipline for Simmonds. NHL couldn’t substantiate what was allegedly said on the ice. A statement is expected soon. (via @DarrenDreger)
This whole thing was a waste, as you can see.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
My issue is that Avery drew media attention to it in this instance
Okay, so I’m not crazy, he did say it!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
My argument has always been that Avery didn’t start the media attention, but he certainly added to it.
The refs were right there and could’ve heard what was said. The league just ruled that there was no substantial evidence and there will be no discipline for Simmonds. So who knows what happened. All I know is Avery added fuel to the fire. Which really amounted up to nothing.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Never said anything different than that.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Then I don’t understand the argument here. I thought Geoff was saying it was wrong, regardless of context. So if you say that too, then you actually agree. Bringing Avery and hockey up is bringing back the context. I thought you were interested in the context. I’m not. I took “let’s take all the context out” as being facetious.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I’ve been arguing that using the word faggot was wrong, no matter who it was directed at. I’ve also argued that because it was on the ice and directed at Avery, it’s not a big deal as going up to a gay rights convention and screaming FAG. Still wrong, but one is worse than the other.
This was made worse by the attention Avery gave to it, which is why I argue that it should’ve been left out of the media. Simmonds yelled it at Avery, and only meant it for Avery. Is it still a bad word? Yes. Was it made worse by Avery bringing attention to it, even though the media asked him first, and he didn’t have to answer those questions? Yes.
So, I’ve said that the word is wrong no matter what, and should not have been used, but I don’t agree with how Avery brought attention to it. If Simmonds knew it would get this much attention, would he have used that word? Probably not. So I see that as a little unfair to Simmonds.
So when someone replies to my post and says “why are you making this about Avery, you’re missing the point?” They have completely missed my point. I hope that clarifies things a little.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Was it made worse by Avery bringing attention to it, even though the media asked him first, and he didn’t have to answer those questions? Yes.
This is where I disagree, Avery supports a cause publicly that relates to this whole issue. When he was asked about it, I felt he should have talked about it the incident since it relates to something he is involved in publicly.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I honestly think that if it happens a lot on the ice, which is what I’ve heard, then singling out Simmonds for saying it to Avery was wrong. Coming from Avery, I’m sure he’ll take the publicity any way he can get it.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The media singled out Simmonds for saying it, Avery answered a question and spoke out on something that relates to an issue he is a public figure for.
I think you have serious anti-Avery vision on this one. Would I have liked him to say, and not just alluded to that it’s said by a lot of players on the ice, but at the same time, this one was caught on camera, it was brought up to Avery, and he responded. Frankly, I think this was pretty responsible of him given his recent public platform.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I admit that I hate Avery, but I believe it’s justified given his track record. I think if Avery had responded that “Oh, I don’t remember” instead of answering “yeah” right away, things would’ve turned out differently.
Really, I think this whole thing would only happen if it involved Avery, anyway.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Regardless of how he answered, that video proof and media knowledge of what Simmonds said was out there. I’m sure other players use that word, and direct it at more players than Avery. This is hardly Avery’s fault.
And I’ll just disagree with you on how Avery should have answered. If he truly supports his platform on gay marriage etc., I think he should have spoken out on this issue, and he should continue to.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Hmm, I see. Well then I guess my points are:
1) I don’t see one as worse than the other. It’s rationalizing. It’s splitting hairs and it makes it even harder than it already is to distinguish right and wrong. Better to treat them both as equally bad, IMO.
2) When the camera caught it and people noticed it, it was already in the media. That’s before Avery enters the picture.
3) As for Avery, at first I was mad at him for “ratting out” Simmonds. But as the day has gone on, I’ve grown to see it like some others have suggested, he publicly supports a cause that is directly related to this issue. So his reaction makes sense. He doesn’t want to sweep it under the rug, that helps no one. But he didn’t jump up and down screaming “did you hear what he said?!?!?!” either. I guess I’m okay with how he handled it.
4) Simmonds did choose to use that word, so he should deal with the fallout of it. I don’t see that as unfair.
So that’s where I stand. :-)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I agree with 4. That is on him. I just think that if Avery wanted to change the culture on the ice, there’s better ways than picking one incident and singling a player out, especially if it’s been going on for a long time. I guess I question Avery’s motives.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s take all the context out.
Fine by me. I don’t care about the context. Who he was talking to, where they were, what they were doing: gone. What Simmonds said was wrong.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever argued that what Simmonds said wasn’t wrong.
I also don’t think it’s a bad idea to wonder why he said it, though.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever argued that what Simmonds said wasn’t wrong.
Agreed.
I also don’t think it’s a bad idea to wonder why he said it, though.And I guess I don’t care why he said it because, to me, it doesn’t matter. But that’s me.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I guess my point is that Simmonds saying it to Avery after Avery was trying to piss him off is a little more understandable than Simmonds running up to a gay man and screaming FAGGOT in his face.
It’s still wrong, but in my opinion, there’s a difference there. Also, I don’t think Simmonds ever intended it to escape the rink. Again, doesn’t make it less wrong.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I can agree with this, it is much different. albeit wrong but I see what you’re saying here.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
And I guess I can still take out Avery’s name and substitute anyone else in the league and I still feel the same about it.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Cool, well I guess we’ll disagree on that one.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. Avery is completely irrelevant. It would be the same no matter who was on the receiving end. And he’d better not talk to Neil Patrick Harris that way, I love that guy!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
But it really isn’t the same. Is saying it to Avery on the ice where it was supposed to stay different than going up to a gay convention and screaming FAG?
Both are wrong, but you can’t act like it’s exactly the same.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I understand that, better than most due to my sense of humor. My comment was a response to something specific he said
I’m there to see people play hockey, not insult each other in a respectful manner.
It just struck me as funny.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
let’s teach it at home and in the schools before we even worry about what is said on the ice
I do agree with this. A fine/suspension of Simmonds is not going to change the culture/society. Teaching it at home will.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
But if what Simmonds said, this very public instance, is ignored, then how will culture/society know that it is wrong and know that it demonstrates a lesson that needs to be taught at home?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Point taken there, and I agree it should be a fine/suspension. But that won’t change society. It starts with education.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
There is a huge difference between them taking exception to this and Avery complaining that he was called bad words on the ice. His job is to say nasty things to get under people’s skin. So his complaint is as hypocritical as it gets.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
by Mike B on D on Sep 27, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does Avery complaining matter?
Especially since it was news before anybody even spoke to Avery, let alone the fact that Avery never said what he was called. He simply confirmed what the reporters assumed.
So I fail to see what Avery’s actions post-game have to do with anything here.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Every article I’ve seen says “Avery accuses Simmonds”. He’s the one making the case and pointing it out. I have not seen any article stating this was an issue before he ran his mouth.
Let me make things clear then… It is NOT acceptable to use that word. It’s as bad as any racial/religious slur out there.That does not mean that Avery calling this out is not a case of the pot calling the kettle black. The things he says are as bad if not worse. I am merely pointing out his hypocrisy here.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
Well then that’s lazy headline writing. See the transcript of the post-game interview. The reporters are the ones who bring it up, not Avery. I can’t stand Avery, but I’ll defend him on this one, he didn’t make the accusation.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Look at the time stamps:
Ryan Lambert of Puck Daddy had it on Twitter.
Travis saw that video and posted it during the game.
As far as “Avery accuses Simmonds”, just wondering if those articles were written by those covering the Flyers? The AP doesn’t say that.
The fact is, reporters asked Avery if Simmonds called him “what we think he called you” and Avery responded “yeah, yeah”.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not making this about Avery. All I said was he is a hypocrite for playing the media like this.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
Which is exactly what I’ve been saying here as well.
Sheesh.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, what? I thought you were making about Avery. Damn, I’m confused.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Avery is involved, I don’t think that’s arguable.
I’ve said he’s a scumbag and he’s a hypocrite for ratting someone out in the media when he’s said far worse stuff to others.
His cause is noble, but his methods are unpure. Something like that.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
question, not being a dick just honestly curious- what is a religious slur? aside from terrorist.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
“Rag Head” would be the one that comes most easily to mind, as there are multiple religions that believe in covering their head/hair for religious reasons.
“Jew Locks” or “Jewy-Locks” is another for Hasidic Jews hairstlyes.
The multitude of ones for current day Christians that believe in the power of the Holy Spirit moving through the body and speaking in tongues. What was once Shakers, Quakers, etc.
(not trying to offend, but legitimatly answering the question.)
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
I completely overlooked the Jewish faith and I have no idea how I did that since they are the most slurred religion ever.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
im catholic, i’ve heard my fairshare. lot of people thing papist is an ok word to describe catholics
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I have never in my life heard that. Papist, is that like papal rapist? for the child molesting crap?
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
it’s because catholics believe the pope is the head of the church and not the queen of england
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not trying to sound ignorant, I’m really just curious. I don’t believe in god or religion so when I hear stuff like this, it interest’s me is all.
ACTUALLY i’m just fishing for some new sweet insults! lol
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
yeah, most protestants believe the queen is head of the church, it goes back like 16th centry when kind henry 8 wanted a divorce, the pope said no, so henry said fuck this shit and made himself the head of the church
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not a belief, the Queen of England is legitimately and officially the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. It’s basically only a symbolic title, (the religious head being the Archbishop of Canterbury) but it is also why it’s still technically not allowed for a Catholic to become King or Queen in England.
/Episcopalian’d
Not most Protestants. Only Anglicans. If you suggest a Baptist, a Methodist, a Calvinist, a Lutheran, or even an Episcopalian (the closest denomination to the Anglicans) believe the English monarch is the head of the church, they’d either laugh at you or be really really confused.
Bob.
As an Anglican I feel no love for the English Crown.
I just like a lot of what Martin Luther had to say.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
At the individual level, there’s a lot of that. I was trying to point out that the Anglican Communion is the only denomination (that I’m aware of, anyway) with a direct tie to the Crown through the Archbishop of Canterbury. To be honest, I’m not that familiar with Anglicanism; I’m nominally a Methodist, with some Lutheran education.
Bob.
I’ve been called a Kyke and “Dirty Jew”. They would count. ’Dothead" would be another.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
I’ve had one guy say something to the effect of “but you’re Jewish, you wouldn’t want to spend money on something like that.” He thought there was nothing wrong with that. He was also a huge fan of the Wilkes-Barre Scranton Penguins and thought Osgood was the best goalie ever, so, yea, not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed.
by hebrew hammer on Sep 27, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah somehow I had a brain fart and completely forgot that Jews belong to a religion. Derr
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Haha, don’t worry, I try to forget there is a religious aspect to it too. It’s the only religion you can’t quit.
by hebrew hammer on Sep 27, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
what if you converted … then became a christian or muslim? or that religion in australia where you wear the spaghetti strainer ?
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Well yea, that would be different. I get asked all the time, and I say, “I was born in Israel, but I’m atheist and my parents are Jewish.” Atheists who were born Jewish still get counted as Jews, somehow.
by hebrew hammer on Sep 27, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
yea i guess if you are jewish enough to get executed by the nazi’s thats jewish enough for me … i studied in jerusalem for a semester, awesome place
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
This is not about Avery. Sean Avery is a complete ass, of this I am certain. But this is not about Sean Avery. You are building up a straw man by linking my offense at someone believing it is okay to use the f-word in certain situation and “glass feelings” to me defending Sean Avery.
The two could not be any more different.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I have no clue what you are referring to. I said none of those things, never mentioned glass feelings or anything like that.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
Sorry. Reply fail. I am confused who is saying what anymore.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
just to play devil’s advocate, but did you have a problem with a certain Slap Shot line, the first time you heard it, then the following times?
Just curious
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I have not seen Slap Shot.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
There’s points for and against on this one. It’s a nasty word, but it’s been used plenty of times in shows I like, and I’ve laughed, so i can’t ride the high horse on this one.
What I do know is that kids that age are nasty little shits. And they are only encouraged by a group mentality, and a school unwillingness to stand up for the kids getting bullied. It hurts, I was bullied a lot for my weight growing up (and I still catch shit for it here and there), and I was even brought to tears in high school lunch period because of this kid. But what helps is that I had friends to get me through it, and I think that’s the underlying factor here. These gay children who are getting bullied are not being stood up for because the kids around them aren’t educated on the matter of being ok, and that it’s perfectly normal to be gay. But our schools would never encourage this, hell “I have 2 mommies” was yanked off the shells because apparently there’s a link between education and encouragement. These negative notions toward being gay must be removed, and the way to do that is through education, not through banning a subset of words.
Yes, teach your kids that it’s an nasty word and shouldn’t be used. Teach your kids to stand up for these kids getting bullied because they are perfectly normal. As good as it would be to have this word banned, it would be better to have the attitude behind the word banned, so that I can call my buddy a homo or fag good jokingly and not have someone throw a shit. It’s the people, not the word that’s a problem. I don’t see the wrong in what Simmonds said to Avery, but there’s a shit ton wrong with what a 16 year old says to a 15 year old
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree entirely. Then again, I want the FCC to go the hell away, because I don’t believe there is anything wrong with any of the “curse words” they don’t like.
But so long as the word is used as an insult, I have a problem with it. Nobody’s calling for the word to be banned – and if they are, I worry about their political beliefs – but instead calling for the word to be removed from the list of acceptable insults.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I want the FCC to go the hell away, because I don’t believe there is anything wrong with any of the "curse words" they don’t like.
I agree with this. (See my comment earlier about “curse words” being arbitrary.) But it does raise an interesting quandry when I have kids. Do I swear in front of them? Do I care if they swear? Or should I hold myself to, and teach them to follow, our society’s rules of what words are and aren’t allowed? I guess the answer is I want them to be successful in our society, so they should play by those rules, even if sometimes I think the rules can be a bit silly.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Hugo Black…glad I took those Criminal Justice classes
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this. The word “faggot” means a “bundle of sticks.” Let it mean a bundle of sticks. But the problem is, it has almost been changed to be a slur for gay men to the point where this is almost impossible. Seriously, when was the last time you referred to a bundle of sticks as a “faggot?”
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
It has more meanings than “bundle of sticks.” Any connection the slur has to that meaning is very, very indirect.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I do not know how accurate this is, but Travis posted this video in the recap that offers an explanation to the connection.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
To further clarify, we just don’t know how the word came to be used this way, but we know this wasn’t the reason. It was a derogatory term for old women that got transposed on effeminate men (ala pansy, fairy, pussy). But there’s competing theories for why it was a term of old women in the first place.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=faggot
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
What ever happened to sticks & stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me? Has everyone become so PC and spineless that it no longer exists? Be an adult. See the person who says it as the idiot they are, and move on. They’re just words. We’re not talking about Nazi Germany, Mississippi lynchings, or even a kid getting a little roughed up on the playground. It’s just words. The reaction you give is why they say it. If you turn the other cheek and don’t dignify it with a response, they won’t keep wasting their breath saying it because … well what would be the point? If they did, they’re obviously insane and will say anything regardless of right or wrong, rules or not.
As for kids getting bullied, that will happen no matter what. Race, sexual preference, fat, pimples, etc. Kids are cruel. They pick on each other. Always have, always will.
From someone who is taking a course on adolescent development, I can tell you that sticks & stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me is easier said than believed.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
names hurt emotionally, and depress people and drive them to suicide. so yeah names do hurt. let’s not be children about this.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Let’s not be children about this? Name calling leads to suicide? How many of those name calling induced suicides were children? I would argue probably all of them so I would say this is a pretty childish issue.
Regardless, I know not to call someone in public a faggot, but on the ice? Give me a break. I can’t imagine if people heard everything that was said on any field of play during a game. I mean christ I only played up to the junior level and I can still remember some of the trash talk that went on. Haha did I think that guy was really gonna bang my mother until she was bloody? Well no, come on guys were talking about a very violent sport here. Ya’ll are getting carried away with this.
by kckrebs on Sep 27, 2011 4:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
good luck arguing a probably. And I wasn’t making that statement about ice hockey, I was making it about society in general. and if you really think that your words and actions don’t affect the people around you than you’re just plain ignorant.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
The fact that names hurt emotionally, and depress people and drive them to suicide depresses me & has me contemplating suicide.
Goodbye, cruel world. My blood is on your very thin skinned hands.
have you ever known a depressed person? making jokes and downplaying a deadly serious medical condition is REAL mature. Grow up. Be a productive member of society and stop acting like a moron please.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Actually, I was diagnosed with extreme depression. In 2nd grade, in 5th grade, in 7th grade, in 10th grade, and again in my early 30’s. I was prescribed medication, but didn’t like it so I didn’t take it. Also, my wife(who was born in Korea & thrown in a rain ditch by her birth mother & left to die, only to be found, taken to an orphanage, and adopted by Americans) was heavily medicated once her deprssion got to the point where I would come home from work and find her on the kitchen floor in a pool of her own blood from slicing herself up.
Did you actually want to know this about me or were you just using that question as a lead-in to you stream of insults?
I’m 40 years old, I am grown up. I’ve been through all of that shit. There comes a point where you have to shit or get off the pot because nothing is going to fix the problem. You can sit home, hoping to die, or say “fuck it” and go to work. Too many people are relying on me for various things, so I went with option B.
Crying doesn’t fix the problem. I make a joke about my life and move on. Don’t like it? Sorry, but it’s my life, not yours. You don’t get to decide.
I was going to ask him if he wanted you to give up blogging or comedy to become a productive member of society. Of course, then I read your reply.
In all seriousness, I have never seen living with depression written out so succinctly. Thank you.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
Why do we need to address every pity case. Why is it in todays day and age its “oh he called me this I’m offended”. A long time ago for me my father told me something very simple. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Now last time I checked avery can duck out of fights I’m sure he has some way to dodge the hurt of words. And why he is offended about being called a name when it was only within these last couple years he was bragging about someone having his sloppy seconds. At the end of the day, I’m all for tolerance and was first to applaud gay marriage being approved in new York where I live yada yada yada…but they are still just words and if you think about it, other than society saying this word is bad or that word is bad, if they didn’t, are you really worse off than before I called you it? Let’s say calling someone an idiot for their opinion has the same offensivity(made that up) as this slur does to homosexuals. I call you an idiot. Now is your life really worse off then when before I called you an idiot? No. I’m not really calling you an idiot and respect your opinion just using that as an example
by profoundnotions on Sep 27, 2011 3:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not to pick at nits, but I just re-read Avery’s quotes after seeing this comment, and I don’t see where he said he was offended. I don’t think anyone here feels bad for Avery. Avery isn’t the point. The point is that using words or making comments that are intolerant of an entire group of people is wrong, and Simmonds should not have done it.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I agree that he should not have done it. But I think if Avery really truly cared about the issue, he’d talk to the NHL privately about it, rather than give Simmonds and the Flyers a bad rap. Knowing Avery, I’m sure he loved the choice to distract people from the bad game he had and give himself some more media time.
Again, that is not the same as ignoring the issue. As I said before, banning one word from the ice will change nothing. And lecturing grown adults about tolerance when they’ve grown up with certain views might not change much either.
The real changes from from each generation, and the more recent generation has the most tolerance of gay people…most likely because they know more gay people.
by feelingkettle on Sep 27, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha all good I’m just as nit picky at times too I appreciate it. No I just think he ever directly said yes I’m offended and I’m too lazy to look it up but when asked about it avery said something to the effect of him being a big advocate for gay rights so I think it was more of an implied offense. Or maybe I misread everything because I was on the back side of an all night cram session for an exam
by profoundnotions on Sep 27, 2011 3:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok, so he was called a homophobic slur, which is politically incorrect. Now, I know if I was to tell someone I was going to kill someone I would be arrested for terroristic threats and spend the night in jail. Why isn’t that a issue as much as being called a cigarette in England. Makes no sense. In the Military you go through sensativity training as to not offend or discriminate against. Like it has been said, I am sure that wasn’t the first time that word was used or it being the worst that has been said. If I remember correctly, wasn’t Hartnell a target, something about his wife or something like that last year. I am pretty sure what ever was said was to get into his head and take him off his game. Right or wrong, shit happens
Leino = $$$
by flyerfreek on Sep 27, 2011 4:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This reminds me of another word that was taken into a different context. The N word if taken as defined is a ignorant person, but has been taken to heart, and made to be a derogatory slur as to offend. in no way do I condone this behavior, but the sensitivity towards such words has gotten to a point where anything that is said, no matter how it is presented can be taken as offensive. I had to take verbal abuse growing up because I was called Jay, and guess what rhymes with that.
Leino = $$$
by flyerfreek on Sep 27, 2011 4:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Rinaldo
is even bat shit crazier than I thought. he has no hobbies, no tv shows, what does he do sit around writing down lists of players to off this season? he’s nuts.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
All work and no play makes Zac a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Zac a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Zac a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Zac a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Zac a dull boy.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
Rinaldo in his trailer home
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Well done.
Now we need a photo shop and we can add names like Sean Avery.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I need a photo shop guy. Thats 2 pictures that need to be photoshopped
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Shaun should have some more free time now that his team is out.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
I wanted to make fun of him and his zeal for that team during their loss, but at the same time, he gets paid to do something he loves, so he’s the real winner in all of this
tried to think of something demoralizing to end this on, but couldn’t find it
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but it’d be nice to enjoy the marathon and not be the fat guy huffing and puffing every 3 minutes
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s just the most demoralizing thing I can think of…well, that and your ex.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
Well done.
I can honestly say that after her 330 am phone call last week and me having to wake up for 6 burned me out. I answered thinking there was something truly urgent, and she just felt the need to talk after getting off from work. This saturday she tried that again, and I just watched the plead for me to answer the phone, and then the subsequent phone call.
I love the damsel in distress, but these days she strikes me as more of a child than anything. Last night was one of the first times where my subjective self who used to roll over on these matters just looked at it and said, “there really isn’t much here anymore”
I’m going to notch it up as me growing up, which feels very weird
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Kudos. It is a big step, and not one everyone takes in their process of growing and maturing.
You sir are a gentleman of four outs!
how are the ribs?
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
.
Me likey the photoshop. What do you need?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
picture of Buscemi needs a new list of hockey player names. and last night i posted a small jager bombs picture with a fake italian on it, but it need to be mulletted jagr
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I can’t guarantee when I can get to it, but I’ll see what I can do. Any suggestions for the list of names?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
be creative
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I just made something with Photoshop. I took this photo, and put Zac in it with a new list of names. However, this site doesn’t let me upload photos, only link to photos on the web. Suggestions?
go to a photo sharing website and upload from there. flickr is it?
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
perfect, ty
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
hahaha,
OK the fact Shelly and Sestito are already crossed out is pretty hillarious.
Made me laugh.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Avery and Talbot
Not defending what was said, but at this point, if Avery isn’t willing to drop the gloves he should shut his mouth. Seriously, the slur that was said was incorrect. The word pussy is what should’ve been used.
Unfortunately the Flyers have their own brand of pussy, imported from Pittsburgh. Not a shock because Talbot was a wuss in Pitt too, but seriously…..if your going to hit someone like that be ready to fight. Don’t wimp out and run like a 4 year old girl and then look like you’re ready to drop the gloves when there’s 3 players in between you. THEN, laugh as if you did something great for the team. Pronger needs to sit this ass down and tell him that they’re going to let his ass be beaten in if he keeps that crap up. Flyers don’t turtle and they don’t run.
Wow, just wow. You got the guts to say that sort of thing to Avery or Talbot’s face and not turtle? I sure don’t.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
When Avery gets in a fight, I picture him in a walk off, Zoolander style
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 27, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Well yeah, but alas, we’re not. We’re just two guys on the internet.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
That’s true. My thought here though is that if Talbot runs around like an idiot other teams aren’t going to go after him…..they’re going to go after Briere and Giroux, etc. So that’s why Pronger has to have a “sit down” if this continues.
Updated with links.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
Harry Z
I only got to see the 3rd period of the game, at a bar, with no sound…
But I thought Harry Z looked fantastic from what I saw.
How was he all game? Was anyone else impressed / unimpressed by him last night?
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
He looked very solid all game. And fast. Very, very fast.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
by Mike B on D on Sep 27, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
It looked like he had a shiner. Did he get that during the game?
Also what line was he on? I thought he was on with Talbot and Couturier, but he seemed shifted down the bench from them kind of by himself.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
I thought JJ, Jonesy and Coatsey really spent too much time last night talking about his name. It doesn’t seem too difficult to pronounce, and anyone who’s lived in an area with any reasonable amount of people of Polish descent shouldn’t stumble over it too much.
Sarauj, Latvija!
…This is Coatsey we are talking about here.
Glad they did though, because it brings attention to him. So far I want to see him at least stick all the way through the end of the Camp.
Didn’t pay enough attention to him in the Rookie game, as I was watching Schenn and Noebels and Couterier (and then Brown, Akenson and Hyka) too much. He’s got my interest now though.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
Shelley has made the team for the first 5 games at least.
I don’t believe Shelly can serve his suspension down with the Phantoms, therefore he has definitely made the Flyers for the first 5 games of the season, so you might as well change the color of his name from blue to orange. An NHL player can not serve a suspension in the minors.
What about Sestito? Can he serve his suspension in the minors? Or does Homer have to keep him on the Flyers roster for the entire suspension?
I think its irrelevant, as a suspended player does not count against the total member of dressed players in your nightly roster, and during the suspension their salary comes off the cap.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
But I think he still counts against the 23 man, which is something I didn’t account for with my headline.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that the team thinks the salary doesn’t come off the cap.
I think they’re wrong, but it kind of doesn’t matter — as long as they believe it counts (rightly or wrongly), they’ll keep 1.1M of space under the cap for his salary.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Can we get a confirmation on it counting against the 23 man Roster?
If we are short both our 13th Forward and 7th Dman for between 5-10 games I’m going to be pretty miffed.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
I know Frans Nielsen is a current Islander, but as a Dane there have seen Nielsen both in NHL and in the World Cup, he would make a really good defensive foward for the Flyers.
I’d like to see him and Danny Briere all buddy buddy in the locker room.
Hvor kommer du frau?
I spent a semester in Copenhagen, wish I could go back. Also, that’s about the only Danish I still remember.
by hebrew hammer on Sep 27, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Im from Copenhagen :) and its fra, not frau (german word for woman) :)
by Anders Jensen on Sep 27, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh crap. It’s been 4 and a half years, so I guess it makes sense that I would forget a thing or two.
by hebrew hammer on Sep 27, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I want Frans Nielsen on the Flyers ASAP.
I’d love to have him centering Simmonds and Nodl.
Opposing Ilya Bryzgalov as Philadelphia Flyers' goalie since June 23, 2011.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Sep 27, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
and he would still be fairly cheap as he is not a huge goal score, but he makes a really good 3rd line center and PK forward.
by Anders Jensen on Sep 27, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Unbelievable! He is only making $525,000 this year! Blair Betts is making $700,000 while Malhotra is making $2.5 million. I’d happily give Nielsen $1 to $1.5 million next year to anchor our third/fourth line center position.
Opposing Ilya Bryzgalov as Philadelphia Flyers' goalie since June 23, 2011.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Sep 27, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Getting Frans Nielsen for around 2.5 would be nice, as I see 1.5 as little. The funny thing is I see the Islanders either letting him go or trade him at the winter trade deadline.
by Anders Jensen on Sep 27, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
So it sure looks like one of Couturier or Read will make the roster with Shelley or Rinaldo as the 13th forward.
I’m pulling for Harry Z to be considered as well.
I was really really high on the concept of Couturier, but seeing him in games he does seem a bit small for his frame still, and “intimidated.” Intimidated isn’t really the right word, but he’s been getting run over, seems uneasy about throwing checks, and has seemed worried about making mistakes. That said he’s gonna be a superstar one day.
My son was born in Ottawa (Go Senators!) to a Father (Go Flyers!) and a Mother (Go Canucks!) who's families root for two different hockey teams (Go Habs!)(Go Bruins!) Little Maxwell is going to have such a confusing life.
From the cap aspect, Read’s much cheaper, and his contract can’t slide, so I’d prefer Read to Couturier, particularly since I think this year Read would be a better player. Couturier has a lot more potential, but he also needs to finish developing.
Bob.
I can’t seem to find Blueshirt Banter’s “Show Your Support For Sean Avery!” Fanpost…..
I'm kind of a dick.
An article about DSOD scoring for no clear reason? I approve.
SB Nation Tennis -- Fuzzy yellow balls.
Broad Street Hockey.
What makes calling someone an “F” word worse than fighting them? Why are we brought almost to tears with this news but stand and cheer for fights? Are we projecting our ideals into an arena that’s not suited for them? Are we more worried that children will use this incident as encouragement to bully each other than an arena of 45,000 on their feet for a gladitorial showdown of violence? Can we tell the difference between a competitive environment of adults and acceptable behavior for children? Are we oversensitive? Last question, do we really think Simmonds was being personal with Avery’s politics in this situation?
What makes calling someone an "F" word worse than fighting them?
Because one is a a homophobic slur and the other is acceptable behavior in the setting.
Why are we brought almost to tears with this news but stand and cheer for fights?
I don’t think these two are related at all, but I also don’t think anybody is “brought almost to tears” with this news. But even accepting the hyperbolic premise, the answer is that one is a derogatory remark toward an entire class of citizens while another is a permissible choice between two consenting individuals.
Are we projecting our ideals into an arena that’s not suited for them?
Personally, I’m projecting my appropriate societal behavior onto a member of society. I could care less where it was said, or in what arena it took place. Society should have a problem with this, and “preseason hockey game between two individuals who are guaranteed jobs” is not an arena I’m going to carve out as an exception.
Are we more worried that children will use this incident as encouragement to bully each other than an arena of 45,000 on their feet for a gladitorial showdown of violence?
Yes, we are. Because one is sport, the other is bullying.
Can we tell the difference between a competitive environment of adults and acceptable behavior for children?
Yes. Can we tell the difference between acceptable behavior for adults and insulting slurs?
Are we oversensitive?
Perhaps. Are we insensitive?
do we really think Simmonds was being personal with Avery’s politics in this situation?
I do not. I also don’t think this matters at all, since Simmonds used a word that has no place in society, and I couldn’t care less who he directed it to.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 27, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
What makes calling someone an "F" word worse than fighting them?
One attacks a group while the other attacks an individual. That’s what I see.
Maybe it’s just me, but I wasn’t brought to tears with this news. So I think there may be some hyperbole in your comment.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Seriously.....
Let it go people.
What both players did was bad, we get it. If what they did offends you that much go join a activists group and try to do something about it. Arguing on a Hockey Blog about it will not stop slurs of any kind from being used.
I think Puck Daddy pretty much sums this whole issue up:
Move on.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
REdunkulous
what is said on the ice – stays on the ice… i mean, Avery was caught on video threatening to “kill Giroux”… can that be taken out of context, yes!
i agree … i dont know why everyone is being little bitches about this trash talking.
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he crossed a line. There’s a difference between trash talk/insults and intolerance.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Comics cross the line all the time. But I guess that’s okay because it’s funny.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Another intriguing quirk of our society.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Not a quirk, but a fine line. Comics use this language with a point behind it. George Carlins cursed discussing 7 words you can’t say on TV. Lenny Bruce made fun of ridiculous social mores and people’s perception of words. Humor can be used to allow us to see normal things in a very different way and even how silly somethings truly are.
"I repeat we have normality." She turned her microphone off — then turned it back on, with a slight smile and continued: "Anything you still can’t cope with is therefore your own problem."
it is still something that should be eliminated from society.
I’m sure I missed the entire debate, but I’m just going to officially come down in the “Obviously a not fun word, and sports league are allowed to regulate conduct how they choose, but this is a bit heavy-handed” camp. Hate speech and slurs suck; people should be allowed to choose whether or not they want to suck.
And I’m sure you didn’t mean “Let’s get rid of that word.” This is a context-dependent argument (doubt Simmonds is using the word to make a linguistics statement).
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
and they’re comparing this to the Kobe slur… i am not familiar with it, did Kobe say something in public or was it mistakenly caught on camera at a game?
he called a ref a faggot.
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh oh, you said the F word you better apologize.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
this is america i will say whatever i want and there is not a god damn thing anyone can do about it!
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless you play for a professional sports team. ;)
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
go on tv and say that, I think the FCC will and can do something about that.
Also freedom of speech only works when you’re not verbally attacking someone offensively.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Really? Try that logic with the WBCC.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
that I can’t even begin to figure out. I’ve tried. I just don’t understand how they get away with that bs.
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly. That’s how they get away with it and that was upheld in the Supreme Court last year.
So going by that judgement it doesn’t matter what you say or who offend, it’s legal.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 4:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
couldn’t they be sued for slander then though? or was that what the case settled?
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
he’s right… people can say anything, it’s up to the employer (in this case the NHL) to administer punishment or fines. people say awful things and get away with it all the time. for instance, these religious freaks said about the girl who disappeared from the Metallica concert and was later found murdered… these idiots held “assembly” and said the poor girl was in hell and awful things like that. just for media attention
Yes, they were sued for slander by a local soldier’s father whose son’s funeral the protested here in York. He went to court and lost and it also cost him $100,000.
Which is sad. But according to the Supreme Court what they did was legal.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Sep 27, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
is that the dudes that protest service members funerals?
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Although, Avery could have a case on defamation, I suppose.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Mistakenly caught. It’s being compared correctly. I have no problem with the NHL coming down on this, at all.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
wait to clarify, kobe called the ref a faggot. simmonds allegedly called avery it
"fortune favors the bold"
by IraqWarVeteran on Sep 27, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He got caught in the exact same way as Simmonds, I think. Lip-reading isn’t exactly circumstantial evidence.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Not to be a killjoy by talking about hockey on a hockey blog, but Hartnell has been medically cleared and resumed practice. JVR and Andreas Nodl joined Brayden Schenn on the injured list and are out for Thursday. London, Ontario authorities appear to have identified and may prefer charges against the person who threw the banana at Wayne Simmonds.
Control A. I am really glad I missed all of this. I have really strong feelings about this whole issue and I am pretty disappointed that Simmonds said what he said. Regardless of the fact that he said it to one of the biggest scum bags in the game. He still said it and he shouldn’t have. I hope he is dealt with for it.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
He isn’t.
But the NHL made a statement that players can be fined for making homophobic slurs.
This station is non-operational
On the twitterverse
Actually it says “penalized”, so probably 2 minutes for unsportsmanlike and/or a fine.
This station is non-operational
On the twitterverse
Posting my 2 cp
Since all the good internetz argumentz happen while I’m at WORK and can’t participate! Jerks!
There seem to be two camps: It’s horrible and we’d like it to go away, but grow some thick skin and move one vs it’s horrible and we’d like it to go away and we need to press this issue. I’ma take a middle ground, and I’ll explain why:
Firstly, is this a problem that needs to end? Yes, because it’s pointless discrimination. There are enough morons, lazy lumps, entitled freaks and worthless sacks around to sink your verbal teeth into, the need to try and paint an entire race/ethnicity/group as negative based on what some people do is flat out stupid. It’s unnecessary and counterproductive to fixing real problems. It’s also unfair and taints our society by showing that not everyone is getting a fair shake.
As such, is it unacceptable when this type of behavior occurs. Our society needs to move beyond this.
But there is something that we’re forgetting, at least those of us in the US (I’m not saying other countries aren’t like this, but as I’ve only been outside of this one for about 2 hours, I don’t have a right to speak to it), freedom of opinion, freedom of lifestyle and choice, the freedom that mean ethnic and racial and sexual slurs aren’t tolerable has something attached to it we have to accept: That the viewpoint that they’re not only tolerable, but correct, is equally protected.
This may upset some folks, but the same freedom that we want to apply to people to not judge them based on their skin or sexual preference means that the bigots we fight against have rights too. And to remove their right to hold that opinion means we’ve become intolerant as well, and could wind up down the same street they are. In fact, I’d argue we have.
As such, we can set standards for behavior in public, but that only means we can say “You can’t say this word because it’s point is to offend and nothing else”. We can’t, however, take away their right to feel that way. This means that the intolerance is GOING to exist for a very long time, and even if we remove the language, the intent is still there, which means life won’t always be roses.
When I was young, I was bullied. And while I’m not going to state flat out that being called a pussy is the same as being called a fag, I can tell you that I spent many days alone, wondering why people hate me. Wondering what was wrong with me and why I was so different. While I don’t ever recall being suicidal, I can remember days where if I died I was convinced no one would give a shit. Now, I was wrong. My parents were loving, and I did have some freinds, and those I had were insanely awesome people. But it didn’t stop me from being ridiculously depressed.
It all changed when, one day, I had convinced myself that for some reason, the torment would end. It didn’t, and day one of that school year left me in tears. At which point, I arrived at an epiphany that I can clearly recall to this day: “Fuck them!” That was quite literally my “A-Ha!” moment. When I realized they were bags of donkey shit, and worthless to my life. It changed everything for me. I began to aggressively pursue personal goals, I began to chase my dreams, I stopped giving a shit and was unimaginably happy for it, it was liberating.
The reason this had to happen was because it wasn’t going to stop. No amount of logical argument was going to stop a bunch of dumb kids from taking pleasure in my pain. If you don’t believe me, go find some trolls on the internet and watch them work. It’s a natural human emotion to take pleasure in someone else’s pain, whether it’s right or wrong. It happens.
As such, I think we need to split our focus. Instead of focusing strictly on the offender, we also need to teach children growing up that if someone calls them a faggot, they call them an asshole and move along in their lives and stop giving a shit what they’re called. To expect that we’ll reasonably stop people from hating each other is, frankly, not feasible. The human race is too large to not have a singificant number of stupid (and usually insecure) people who will band together in whatever idiotic way comes to mind. We can fight them by ostracizing them when needed, educating them when the opportunity arises, and ignoring them when we can’t take it anymore. Without a balanced approach, we’re only setting ourselves up for disappointment.
That being said, we must ALSO be wary that our gung-ho civil rights mentality doesn’t take the momentum too far. As I said earlier, rights are rights and it applies to all viewpoints.
It seems a silly idea: How could fighting for equality be a BAD thing?! In and of itself, it isn’t, but it can be taken to far and it twists back into what it doesn’t want: intolerance.
My college grades are not nearly as good as my high school, and difficulty of work has nothing to do with it. I was regularly demonized because by the time I got there, I was jaded enough that I couldn’t always hold it in. I had this, admittedly idealistic and foolish, belief that as long as I could articulate a point, back it up with logic and evidence, and civilly debate I would be fine.
I cannot tell you how many points i lost because I didn’t agree with the “Acceptable” view. I can’t even remember how many times I caught crap from administrators for acting in an “Inapporpriate” manner, which meant I didn’t immediately agree with their viewpoint.
Their broken logic works like this: I stand for rights and freedom, I believe this, ergo, if you disagree you stand against my view, ergo you stand against civil rights and freedom. Sexist! Racist! Homophobe! I am none of these, but I have been called them all countless times because while I agreed with the point, I disagreed with the method. Or, hell, even pointed out fallacies and flat out factual untruths.
In a class about American history right before the civil war, I pointed out very few people owned slaves. I pointed out that it was actually an infamous practice to give Irishmen more dangerous jobs than slaves because slaves were valuable property… the Irish could just be replaced if they were broken (read: maimed or killed).
Ohhh the response was livid. I was defending slavery, some said. I was a racist bastard. I was THREATENED at times. All because I wanted to point out that one of the roots of racism is economic struggle and that racism wasn’t just limited to skin color, but even ethnicities within. I was essentially agreeing with them, and in fact pointing out it was worse! But I complicated the matter beyond their easy view of “One side good, other bad.”
I think that’s what some of us here are concerned about given the huge backlash this issue has gotten. GLAAD is now involved. I don’t want to see players afraid of their own shadow. I don’t want to see someone take a swing or hard check at Avery because he’s a prick, then worry about a twitter-bash-fest saying he’s a homophobe because he went after someone who fights for gay rights (I’ll bet you that’s already been said).
I don’t want to see the sport I love be reduced even a bit because we take a great idea (getting rid of discrimination in the sport) and run so roughshod with it we don’t actually accomplish our goal and just drive people to be quiet while keeping the thoughts in their heads. I’d rather spend three generations dealing with it being said less and less and less rather than a huge witch hunt that leaves the discrimination but takes away the words.
Should we hold them to a high standard? Yes. But I think we need to take another route. Instead of demanding an apology, GLAAD should have written Simmonds (and not revealed publicly their words, just that they did so and the general intent) that they were highly disappointed someone who was such a great role model for civil progress DAYS before would resort to this. Avery should have worked it privately. We could have done more with this.
Now? Too late. It’s a circus and I don’t think we’ll “learn” a thing. Ohhh, there’ll be some changes. Players will hold back on words they would otherwise have said, at least on camera. But if the intent is still there, does it really matter?
Well, no discipline. No on-ice official would verify he said it. So, either refs don’t like Avery, they don’t want what’s said on the ice leaving it, they don’t really care to pay attention to what’s said, or (likely) all of the above.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Goodness, if I read one more damn comment about this stupid Simmonds/Avery thing I am going to throw my computer through a window. Time to move on.
Opposing Ilya Bryzgalov as Philadelphia Flyers' goalie since June 23, 2011.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Sep 27, 2011 10:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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