Thursday Morning Fly By: A Boring Summer Would Have Been Much Better
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 8, 2011 6:01 AM EDT
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- As many have heard, the plane carrying KHL's Lokomotiv hockey club crashed in Russia yesterday, killing
all thosemost everyone on board, including former Flyer Brad McCrimmon: [SBNation.com] [Puck Worlds] [CSNPhilly] [Puck Daddy] [Washington Times] - The Flyers remember Brad McCrimmon: [Philadelphia Flyers]
- Dirk took it upon himself to explain what the NHL's emergency plan is for similar tragedies: [On the Forecheck]
- Catching up with Bill Barber: [CSNPhilly]
- The Flyers invited Danish defenseman Simon Gronvaldt to training camp: [euroflyers]
- The Flyers announced their rookie camp roster and schedule: [Philly Sports Daily]
- Remembering Scottie Upshall: [Flyers Faithful]
- Sidney Crosby won't return until he's 100%, retirement was never an option though: [SBNation.com] [Puck Daddy]
- A nice article on Derek Boogaard and his struggle with addiction: [StarTribune.com]
- A great look on how luck, skill, and small sample sizes effect shooting percentages in the playoffs. [Driving Play]
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good morning sports fans
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 8, 2011 8:17 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed. How quickly do you think we could assemble a pipeline to shunt it down there?
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 8, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I was there last weekend in Houston.
And it rained…
For about an hour or so.
Nicotine, Valium, Vicodin, Marijuana, Ecstasy and Alcohol
I bitch about things at twitter
Check out this “US Drought Monitor” map. Quite shocking. There’s apparently a tropical storm in the Gulf of Mexico that may provide some relief to Texas.
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
Sarauj, Latvija!
I was watching the weather channel all morning, and it seems they have no idea where that one is going to go. I really hope it goes to Texas, they were praying for Lee. Imagine if this mess had stalled over them instead of over the Northeast.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 8, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Cap question
Dirk’s write up on the Emergency Rehabilitation Plan is excellent and addressed what many no doubt thought about yesterday. However, he makes no mention regarding if such a newly structured team must be cap compliant, either immediately or at least during the first year. I can’t imagine that it would be a problem, as other teams can protect their “top ten” players in a draft, but it seems there would be very little time to correct the new roster to be cap compliant if they ran over. Does the CBA address this issue at all?
I’ll investigate that one now. I think I know what I need to say, but it’s no something I’ve really looked into before.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 8, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay, here goes...
First, a quick caveat:
- The NHL By-Laws, where the ERP is defined, contains a number of appendices, attachments, and exhibits that define or clarify some items. Because the NHL By-Laws are not supposed to be available to the public, my copy (and likely everybody else’s) do not contain any of those items. The only reason we have access to the By-Laws is because they were entered as evidence in the Coyotes bankruptcy case because of the issues with moving the team to Hamilton. Because none of the attachments contain information about relocation, the attachments were not entered as evidence. So there may be information missing that changes people’s analysis of the situation.
On to the discussion…
One thing about the CBA is that if there is a conflict between the CBA and the By-Laws, the CBA takes precedence. From CBA Section 30.1:
In the event of a conflict between this Agreement and said League Rules, the provisions of this Agreement shall govern.The CBA makes no reference to the ERP, which means that there is no known exception to the cap when the ERP is needed. Since the CBA supersedes the By-Laws, the ERP procedure can’t make the cap ‘go away’. By-Laws section 16C.10 makes a reference to the fact that the team won’t be penalized for other items, such as failing to show up for a game, “during the period in which the ERP procedure is being carried out.” It’s likely that they’d be exempt from any other CBA compliance items during that time as well, meaning they wouldn’t have to be cap compliant until they’ve worked everything out.
Once they work everything out though, I think they would need to become compliant within a fairly short period of time. That may mean simply making good choices as far as what contracts they claim during the ERP draft.
Dirk wrote about the By-Laws provision (16C.4) that says the can ‘purchase’ contracts before having to resort to an ERP draft, but I’m not sure that’s applicable. Again, since the CBA governs over the By-Laws, I’d expect CBA Section 11.16 to remain in effect:
11.16 Sale of SPCs. There shall be no cash transact ions in connect ion with the Assignment of Players. Nor shall any Club be permitted to retain an obligation to pay or to reimburse another Club for a portion of any Player’s Player Salary or Bonuses in connection wit h the Assignment of such Player, other than as set forth in Section 50.8(b)(ii) of this Agreement.The CBA expressly prohibits the sale of contracts, so I don’t think that part of the ERP procedure would be relevant. It mentions again in 50.8.b that cash transactions involving player assignments are prohibited under the agreement. That procedure being eliminated would fall in line with other parts of the ERP procedure that are outdated, like the references to the Waiver Draft that no longer exists.
Again, there may be lots of information I don’t have access to that changes these provisions, but at some point after the procedure concludes they’d need to reach a cap compliant state.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 8, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
if there is a conflict between the CBA and the By-Laws, the CBA takes precedence
OK, that pretty much sums it up. The new roster must be at least 18 skaters and 2 goalies with a total cap hit between the floor and ceiling, which I suspected.
Dirk wrote about the By-Laws provision (16C.4) that says the can ‘purchase’ contracts before having to resort to an ERP draft, but I’m not sure that’s applicable…..The CBA expressly prohibits the sale of contracts
Yes, but that regards a potential transaction between two teams, right? In the ERP situation it would not be the team but rather the league using the insurance money to purchase the player contracts and then assigning them to the team’s replacement roster. Or does the CBA forbid this as well?
Good catch. I was just going to mention that about the ERP league v. teams.
Also, I’m not positive a prohibition on cash transactions means teams can’t acquire contracts. The best way to explain what I’m trying to say is an analogy to baseball. When a team wants to call a player up, but they aren’t on the 40-man, the team “purchases the contract” of the player from a minor-league team. This is different than the Blue Jays trading Matt Stairs for “cash considerations”.
Maybe that’s the difference?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 8, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
There are plenty of other ways to acquire contracts, I’m just not sure they can officially purchase them for cash using the insurance money under the terms of the ERP wording in the By-Laws. The wording in the CBA that prohibits cash transactions isn’t just “Club A can’t sell player 1 to Club B”, but also in 50.8.b:
(b) The following practices also shall not be permitted under this AgreementGenerally, I find that the league includes itself as an ‘entity’ when it makes these sort of blanket statements.
and may not be included in any SPC, nor otherwise agreed to by any Club, any person or any entity:
…
(ii) Cash transactions in connection with the Assignment of Player SPCs;
That doesn’t prohibit them from making other types of moves during the voluntary period; I just don’t believe that the By-Laws wording in 16C.4 is allowable:
The Member Clubs shall first endeavor to assess the loss of playing strenth occasioned by the covered accident and to replace it by voluntary sale of players to the Disabled Club at such prices as are mutually agreeable between the selling club and the Disabled Club.Under that wording, it implies actually “selling” the contract, not just “acquiring” it. It’s the language they’re using in the By-Laws, to me, that makes it seem distinct from the baseball example you’re using.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Sep 8, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Good work.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 8, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The flooding in Central PA is absolutely ridiculous right now. Trust me, I’m there. My school is closed until Tuesday because of the flooding.
Luckily for me, I live in an apartment on top of hill/mountain and am in the 3rd floor of an apartment, so I am safe, but for those who are not as fortunate as I, the Susquehanna River is expected to crest near record stage tomorrow morning. Scary stuff, indeed.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I suggest that referring to the Upshall article as “remembering Scottie” be changed to something more like “Scottie’s career” given the events in Russia with Lokomotiv. I thought another tragedy had happened.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
Not sure of the veracity of this, but if this is real, it’s quite a tear jerker. This is apparently an account from the chauffeur who had to pick up Karlis Skrastins’ wife and kids in Dallas yesterday to drive them to the airport to catch a flight back home.
http://achicksperspective.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/reality-check/
Sarauj, Latvija!
BSH is so dead today. Did my article put everyone to sleep or something?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
No, everyone’s reading the comments in the game and recap threads from last night’s Phillies game.
What the hell happened over there? Or, more appropriately, Hey, Wha’ Happen?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Success has brought out all the trollls, which makes absolutely zero sense.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Could be worse. Have you seen what’s going on at stampedeblue lately?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Oh, no. I can imagine with Peyton being out. That place was always…interesting.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Interesting is a kind way of putting it. And that was before the Peyton injury.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
/sings The Doom Song
Nicotine, Valium, Vicodin, Marijuana, Ecstasy and Alcohol
I bitch about things at twitter
Hey – is that bird thingy for Twits? Some of your older, less techie readers wanna know. Or at least me – I wanna know.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Sep 8, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Hi…
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
O hai
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Sep 8, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Hello there, Shaun :)
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Well… I’ve been better :( How about you? And everyone else on here?
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Thanks. It shocked me so much, as everyone else… I’ve wanted to stop by for some time.. didn’t plan to do it on such a sad occasion :(
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
:) Hey!
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Sorry, don’t mean to be overly cheerful as I’m sure this tragedy is hitting your country hard. My condolences for the 3 three Czech players lost in the crash.
Sarauj, Latvija!
Thank you. The worst part for me personally is that one of the guys was my hometown native…
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
I’m very sorry to hear that. There are so many people personally affected by this tragedy. While I didn’t know Karlis Skrastins personally, I have a number of friends who work at the Latvian embassy here in Washington, DC who knew him and his family well.
Sarauj, Latvija!
It’s terrible. I was and still am quite affected… I can’t imagine what the families and friends are going through. Well… I at least lit some candles along with hundreds of others outside our hockey arena.
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
#1 mission? Well… Some might remember.
Of course we do.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Oh. Of course you do.
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
Thanks! Good to be back… Hopefully for some longer period of time..
I'm in love with the Lightning, the Flyers are my fling and I have a crush on the Flyers fans. LA Kings by default.
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego. Go visit my website. I will keep you updated on every Simon injury.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Well... Some might remember.
RIP Karel, Jan & Josef.
It’s interesting to compare the Puck Daddy story about Crosby’s concussion with the NYT story, which focuses on the negative. Reading PD it seems that he’s definitely coming back this season. Reading NYT, Crosby hasn’t closed the door on retirement and the return is open-ended.
Other than a fatality from a headshot, a Crosby retirement or even prolonged absence will put the most pressure on the hockey establishment to create and enforce stricter rules about head contact.
by flyersfaninchicago on Sep 8, 2011 2:55 PM EDT reply actions
For those of you who don't already know...
I figured everyone might like to hear that Sasha Galimov is still alive and fighting.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Sep 8, 2011 5:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Thanks. I fell victim to conflicting reports yesterday – so many I don’t even want to run down – and got lost in which one was real.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 8, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
From Puck Worlds:
Galimov was reported to be able to communicate with his father who is at his bedside.
Meanwhile:
Lokomotiv will play in 2011-12. The makeup of the team is still yet to be determined, but it looks like it will be made up of players on loan from other clubs, free agents, and players who were on the team’s MHL and VHL affiliates. Reports are that around 30 current KHL players have already volunteered to play for Yaroslavl this season.
wow. Two good pieces of news after such a catastrophic event (I wish I could have commented on the tragedy sooner, but computer/school complications). Truly touching that players have stepped forward to be a part of Lokamotiv.
My heart goes out to those who died on that plane, and those who have lost a loved one. They will never be forgotten. This has been a sad sad summer for the hockey world. To the two still holding on to life, fight on.
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Giving up isn't an option
To the "Two" cillo mentions...
Reports are also now saying that flight engineer Alexander Sizov is also alive.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
does that now make it three, or just name the other one?
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Giving up isn't an option
Name the other one. Sorry.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
Thank you for clarifying, but it did get my hopes up a little
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Giving up isn't an option
Unfortunately, there were 45 reported on the flight (37 players/staff and 8 crew) and only the two have been said to be alive.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
that i knew, I’ve kept up on the story since whatever time 2nd period is (I think I found out from LV) but couldn’t comment/twitter doesn’t work. Needless to say, my school day was shot. Felt sick all day after hearing
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Giving up isn't an option
I had Russian class this morning. It was a bit painful.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
In an article the NHL Twitter just promoted...
Someone seriously needs to go add an addendum or correct that. It was painful to read after what happened.
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
I just tweeted at them. Hope you did too.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 8, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
As soon as I clicked on the article.
I clicked thinking that it WOULD mention something about Skrastins’ death. Instead…
Assistant Masthead Power Person on Down Goes Spezza as ItsAFez66
I'm the Pronger. DUH, WINNING.
Chem and Gus to the restaurant.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun
Definition: Bad-assery on skates
SovSport.ru offers an animated reconstruction of the crash along w/ a variety of other related reports.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sovsport.ru%2Fvideo%2Fgallery-item%2Fs04605_254821&act=url
Okay, that animation is ridiculous. Why is there a tower that close to the runway in the line of takeoff?
SB Nation Tennis -- Fuzzy yellow balls.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Sep 9, 2011 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions
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