Luke Schenn, Ryan Suter, Tim Gleason on Flyers' radar, but is a trade needed?
by Travis Hughes on Jan 13, 2012 5:10 PM EST
in Philadelphia Flyers Commentary
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We know that Paul Holmgren and the Philadelphia Flyers are indeed working the phones, trying to see what's out there when it comes to the trade market for defensemen. We don't have first-hand knowledge of this, but Darren Dreger and Pierre LeBrun of TSN do, and they're the best in the business when it comes to this stuff.
(By the way, this is simple: Nobody is as insidery as these insiders. If somebody is saying they have more information than these guys on a major trade story like this, they're likely talking out of their ass.)
From Thursday night's Insider Trading segment on TSN, here's Dreger on the possibility of a trade between the Flyers and Toronto Maple Leafs:
They have been, both past and present, and they're talking about James van Riemsdyk. Now, he's a big forward that we know Brian Burke and the Toronto Maple Leafs have coveted since Burke arrived in Toronto. As I said, there have been some discussions, but to say that there's a deal in the works is premature at this stage.
Is Luke Schenn involved? Well, the Toronto Maple Leafs have not offered Luke Schenn to anyone, including the Philadelphia Flyers. That being said, if James van Riemsdyk or a big forward such as became available, Schenn isn't untouchable. Neither is any other player in Toronto.
Eric Duhatschek of The Globe & Mail and Frank Seravalli of the Philadelphia Daily News have both written about the Flyers' interest in Schenn as well. It is real. That doesn't mean a trade is anywhere near close, however. It's the same situation regarding other defensemen in the league. Here's LeBrun:
Well, I knew the Flyers -- Chris Pronger being out for the year -- are looking for a defenseman, and I believe Ryan Suter tops that list. They're not the only team that would want Ryan Suter, but the Flyers have to wait and see if he actually becomes available from the Nashville Predators.
Once that situation clarifies itself they can either go for it or not. Tim Gleason of the Carolina Hurricanes, another defenseman I'm told that the Flyers covet. Bottom line: defense, the No. 1 priority for the Flyers.
There's interest in a few guys, and Holmgren is certainly not in the wrong to be actively working the phones ahead of the late-February trade deadline. But does that mean a trade is going to happen, or that a trade should happen? The short answer: We don't know yet. We'll get into the long answer after the jump.
There's no doubt that the Flyers could benefit from the addition of a top-four defenseman this year, with Suter coming in on the high end, Gleason on the lower end and Schenn falling in the middle in terms of caliber between these three guys.
But just as with the goalie situation over the summer, you have to weigh the cost versus the benefit to the team. Our Geoff Detweiler talked about this in regards to Suter and Schenn at SB Nation Philly earlier this week: No matter what the Flyers give up, it's going to be a hefty price for these guys.
You have to look at it in terms of long-term versus short-term.
Short-term, as in over the course of this very season, it's sort of unclear what the Flyers should do. It seems silly to suggest that it could all hinge on a guy who's played just eight NHL games -- let alone a guy who doesn't even exist, according to FedEx -- but this really does depend on Erik Gustafsson's play.
If Gus can step back into the lineup and solidify the third pairing, the Flyers will be fine for the rest of this season with the defense they have.
They have an enviable top pairing in Kimmo Timonen and Braydon Coburn, Matt Carle and Marc-Andre Bourdon have been very strong as the second pairing, and Gus replacing Andreas Lilja should go a long way towards pulling up the third unit. (All of that's dependent on pairings not changing with Gus back in, of course.)
A lot of people who don't watch the Flyers on an everyday basis see some of the personnel on defense here and think there's trouble brewing, but with Bourdon playing so well and Gus ready to come back, it's not crazy to think that the blueline could work out well the rest of the year. It all hinges on how Gustafsson plays.
If Gus plays well, I'm not sure the cost of acquiring any of those guys -- Schenn, Suter or Gleason -- is worth it in terms of what you'll gain this season. You'll lose picks, you'll lose current roster players, you might even lose James van Riemsdyk and the world of potential that still surrounds him. All to fill a void that might not really be there yet.
In that sense, the Flyers might be better off shedding less now and picking up a guy to prop up the bottom-four, not the top-four. Luckily, there's still time until the deadline for this stuff to sort itself out.
But what about long-term? Again, it relies on the exact cost, of which it's impossible to know at this point. But with Chris Pronger on the shelf for what could be forever, Timonen getting older by the second and Carle getting ready to hit unrestricted free agency in July, the need for a young, top-four defenseman definitely comes into focus.
Would it be worth giving up van Riemsdyk and perhaps a first round pick? Maybe even multiple picks? I'm not sure. JvR has been underwhelming to date, and that contract extension he's yet to earn does kick in next season, but as mentioned, the potential for him to become a superstar is still very real.
Worth noting: In the case of Suter and Gleason, the Flyers know what they'd be getting, but it's a little less clear with Schenn, who's struggled a bit, not unlike JvR. No coincidence that they're both 22.
At the same time, there's much more depth here at forward than there is at defense, so maybe it's a matter of trading a relative strength for a relative weakness. On the flip side, maybe the other concern lies in guys like Matt Read and Sean Couturier, as good as they've been, also still being unproven as NHLers. By trading away JvR, you'd be putting much more pressure on them to fully develop at a faster rate. That's the last thing we want.
Weighing all the options, would you be willing to part with a piece such as James van Riemsdyk and multiple draft picks if it means a serious improvement at the top of the D-corps? Should Paul Holmgren shift the focus to a player who isn't such a marquee name in hopes of improving somewhere in the bottom-four instead of the top-four?
Every option on the table carries with it unique risks and exciting potential. What should the Flyers do?
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Please take Luke Schenn. Pretty please.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Sure. Would you like Andreas Lilja?
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
We’ll even throw in Matt Walker!
Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.
Matt Read for Calder!
Jeff Skinner, at 6 years old, is the youngest player in the NHL.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates
and the offensive titan known as jody shelley! he trains with jagr you know
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
Ooh – and Mike Leighton!
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
We really want you to take Lilja.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
That's funny.
The address line says ‘broadstreethockey.com’, but this appears to be HFBoards! How strange, I must take this up with the site administrators immediately as there appears to be a grievous error.
I'm with the Hebrew Hammer. Why aren't you?
Do I think the Flyers need to make a trade for a defensemen?
Yes.
Do I think any of the aforementioned perceived options are worth the perceived value?
No.
End of story.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Any suggestions?
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Nope. Geoff’s article did a good enough job of showing what it would cost to get a really good young defensemen and I don’t think the Flyers should part with the pieces needed to do so. I also don’t think that adding a good young defensemen will make them that much better. I’d rather they just stay pat and use some of that money to sign Carle long term.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Gus is in vs. Nashville according to Panotch, who said he talked to him in person.
Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.
Matt Read for Calder!
Jeff Skinner, at 6 years old, is the youngest player in the NHL.
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates
When I first saw this, for a second I misinterpreted it as “Gus is going to Nashville”. Well, he is, but not permanently. Yet.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
My biggest problem with the Flyers defense is that Meszaros has absolutely zero defensive instincts. He doesn’t know where he should be or what he should be doing at any given moment. In 1 on 1 situations, he’ll just skate backwards into the goalie’s lap and act as a perfect screen instead of knowing when to reverse direction and step to the puck. Yeah, he’s got a powerful shot and all (that he sometimes even puts on the net) but he’s a defenseman who doesn’t understand how to play defense.
All that being said, don’t do anything stupid and kneejerk like the Bryz contract. If there’s an amazing deal out there then great. But otherwise it’s probably not worth shipping JVR or whoever out of town for somebody who adds only a minor improvement to the team.
I would give up JVR+ a 1st round pick if its Suter, but only if we can sign him long term and we can still resign Carle
Too high a price for a rental. It’s rare that a first-rounder is dealt at the deadline, let alone that and a proven talent like JVR.
Babe, Bucky, Buckner, Boone, BALTIMORE!!!
And, as I’ve posted before, this won’t work since the Preds would want more than that. They might take Schenn and a 1st.
/see earlier Suter thread
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
didnt I make my self clear with the but?
by Anders Jensen on Jan 13, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
not saying it’s what i want, just curious if that would be possible. yeah sutter’s great, but he’s a rental and likely won’t resign with nashville, so it’s not like he really should command a solid 1st round power forward AND 1st round for a rental
Nashville is just above the floor despite having OK attendance figures. Them resigning Sutter isn’t as outlandish as it sounds, and they are in contention.
Babe, Bucky, Buckner, Boone, BALTIMORE!!!
Should I repost my bloat post from the Suter thread?
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
I apologize that I cannot put your right there, but if you scroll down you’ll see it.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
If they want a ceiling, I know of a certain goaltender who happens to be very pricey for a very long time, who has an affinity for tigers
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Read, Rinaldo and Sestito Flyercrushes until his return
by Cillo stache on Jan 13, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
I like how you think, but Renne’s cap hit is even higher. :)
Babe, Bucky, Buckner, Boone, BALTIMORE!!!
Well you need a golden backup for your platinum goalie, don’t you? Can’t risk loosing that much quality, eh?
Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Read, Rinaldo and Sestito Flyercrushes until his return
by Cillo stache on Jan 13, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
id give up jvr for schenn and a 1st or since the top of the draft is where the talent is this year id trade 1st 2nd (la) and gus for schenn
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
yeah, that’s not happening.
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Broad Street Hockey - Covering the Philadelphia Flyers. Have you accepted Ilya Bryzgalov as your savior?
by Travis Hughes on Jan 13, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Seen it once, seen it twice...
And now we’re seeing it again. Hopefully one of these years JvR will pick up his play without having to be threatened with a trade…..
Having said that I’m looking forward to a red hot JvR in the second half :D
my buddy and I argue about JVR all the time (he wants him gone, I want to wait more). I still think we need to keep our offensive depth. The only reason we have that depth is because of the unexpected (i.e. Read, Couturier, Talbot).
Watching JVR take over games has been fun but watching him do nothing on the ice has been painful. At 22 years old, he can learn (just like Giroux) how to be a consistent presence on the ice.
KEEP HIM.
The only reason to trade JVR
If Toronto wants him so bad, we have the potential for a big trade with him being all we give up. In addition, it frees some major cap room up next season for already-established players (like Carle)
But otherwise, no. I am mostly against this trade. I feel our team is deep, strong, and working well. I like Gus and fully believe he can step in and play well.
The future of JVR in Philadelphia may depend all on tomorrow’s third D-pairing. Crazy.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
by Dr. Steve on Jan 13, 2012 5:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
JVR
I actually think we might be undervaluing JVR. I think Burke really wants him and would be willing to give up more than just Schenn. JVR’s upside is still pretty high. Can anyone here say they don’t think its possible JVR could become a 30 goal scorer, or even better? If so, and he is liked by the other GM don’t you think we could be getting more back? I ask because I’m not as astute with little things like the cap , or Torontos roster.
Bud in tn seems to know the Nashville situation pretty well and if he is correct I think its gonna be hard to pull one of those two outta there. Or worth it if they do.
JVR WILL be a 30 goal scorer, I’m about 80% certain he will be a 40 goal scorer, the real question is whether when he develops and plays on a top 3 role can he put up numbers in the 50s? At 21 he is scoring 20+ goals a year, and in big games he’s producing. Luke Schenn is not as valuable a piece as JVR. I’d ask for Schenn and a first, and I’d probably take a second instead, but I’d have reservations about it.
Broad Street Hockey's Reigning Trivia Champion
I’m not saying JVR isn’t good. I’m saying what the reasons for trading him would be.
And I’ve seen trades that get made in the NHL. We could definitely work up JVR’s asking price if Holmgren plays it right.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Reply Fail
Sorry Dr Steve. Was just going off of your first sentence and wasn’t implying that You were undervaluing JVR.
Schenn isn't happening...
by virtue of him having the misfortune of shooting right-handed.
What’s the problem with him being right handed?
"When people see me sack the quarterback, I want them to see Jesus." - Reggie White
Twitter @JoshBernat17
There is no problem its a joke cause the Flyers have not had a right hand shot on the blue line for what seems like an eternity.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
Incorrect
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2763
Couldn’t resist.
Broad Street Hockey's Reigning Trivia Champion
He doesn’t really count!
The last one I’d say was good ol’ Jason Smith.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jan 13, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Wow it really is odd how long it has been. I can’t imagine any other team in this situation. You would think just by accident we would have one sooner or later.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
so say then with upon hearing this news something clicks in jvr, he goes on a tear and scores idk 15 and 25 points between now and the deadline…does that make him worth more if it it does do we keep him and hope his inconsistancy is over do we try to rip some1(toronto with schenn and a first) off
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
Am I crazy to say Sean Couturier already is looking to be a better NHL player then JVR. I am not trying to start the JVR bashing, but Cooter already has an understanding and vision for the game beyond JVR. Now in JVR’s defense I believe he definitely has an injury, he has been catching up to the curve for three years now because of his background and he does possess the tools. But just the possibilities that Cooter seems to possess really highlight the deficiencies we are afraid JVR might never get beyond. Now I would rather have a Flyers team that has JVR in the mix with Cooter, but if Pronger is really done, for good, and Kimmo isn’t getting any younger, I think having a big time defenseman is more important in the Stanley Cup mix then a winger bouncing inconsistently somewhere between the second and third line. All of this is just my opinion for conversation and is in reference to the idea of losing JVR.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
I would have to agree that at this very moment Juicy looks better than JvR. But he isn’t getting the minutes or competition that JvR is so im not sure its too fair of a comparison. There are times when Seans lack of strength really shows, mostly along the boards. Sometimes he controls the puck very nice but other times he’s fumbling and isn’t the strongest on his skates, he doesn’t hartnelldown but sometimes he’s easily movable. Having said all that there is no doubt in my mind that Juicy will become much more than what JvR can.
And now that I’m thinking about the 2 its making me wonder what they would be like on a line together. Drop Schenn to the 4th for a game and lets see what he can do with Wayner and Reemer.
no your really arnt..at 18 cooter has about half jvrs points this year while haveing played the mahority with shelly and rinaldo/harry z….the kid is the real deal.. and if the trade is done its like 700k less cap hit for schenn than jvr which could help resign carle…this is brash but my gut feeling is jvr will be one of those inconsistant players.. players around him have matured quicker and from his draft class as well
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
I agree with what you are saying about Couturier he has looked great. I think he has just as much if not more potential than JvR. I am not sure about JvR for Schenn straight up but I am leaning toward yes. However if I can get Suter for JvR and maybe a couple of picks or a pick and a throw in I would rather that.
I like JvR and think he will be a very good power foward but with getting a player like Suter I think our team can absorb the offense that we will loose and more than make up for it with Suter solidifying our defense for years to come if we sign him after the season.
I also think Schenn who is a very good dman who has been near the top if not at the top in the league for a couple of years with hits brings a solid top four dman who can clear the net. I think he would also solidfy our d for years to come and at a nice cap hit. He is still young and we could probably make the trade straight up.
As I said I love JvR and I think he will become very good but I think with one of these two guys we could solidify our d for years to come and could still not loose to much offense right now. This teams problems is not scoring it is keeping the puck out of the net which is most important down the stretch and in the playoffs.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
vlearing the net is not our strong point this year
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
JVR vs Cooter
You’re right, but remember Cooter was predicted to go #1 overall in a deep draft as late as January, but Mono slowed him down. JVR went #2 in the weakest draft of the decade. Seriously, look at the first round of the 2007 NHL draft. You could argue we made the wrong pick and should have taken Voracek…oh, wait. Alright, you could argue we should have taken….MAX PACIORETTI!! Yea, Pacioretti is a good player, but that draft was awful.
Cooter has #1/2 center potential, but it’s not fair to compare the two, in my opinion. I think JVR has the potential to turn into a dominant top 3 winger while Cooter has the potential to be a franchise type center. If he’d never had mono he’d have been the #1 pick over RNH.
Broad Street Hockey's Reigning Trivia Champion
So losing JVR now that we have Cooter is not a bad trade off for a top D man.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
This is the same kind of logic that had people saying the Flyers could let Richards and Carter go because they had Giroux and JvR.
What’s wrong with keeping them both?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Well your answer in salary/roster spot distribution but I don’t think it applies in this case.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 13, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. I can understand it when people think Bob should be traded because Bryz will be getting 60+ starts a year for the next six years and Bob can upgrade the team elsewhere (though you don’t hear this as much as you did a couple months ago, for some reason).
But there’s room for plenty of star forwards. I wouldn’t worry about having so many of them that the team can’t get them all on the ice.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
This
I hate how quickly people dismiss depth especially being a fan of this injury-riddled team. You keep trading away great goal scorers because of what you THINK you have in other places and eventually you are going to be wrong. In JVR’s case, our FO may have done that already though.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
Not to sure about RNH being drafted after Cooter, take a look at what he is doing for the Oilers and I would say that RNH was very deserving of the No. 1 pick.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
Because he is being sheltered againt strong competition and getting probably double the minutes of carter with much more skilled linemates…its relative
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 13, 2012 11:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cooter*
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 13, 2012 11:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sheltered and competition and linemates are all relevant, but it turns out all you have to do is adjust for ice time and they look awfully similar:
Couturier is scoring 1.2 goals per 60 minutes of 5v5 ice time and 2.4 points per 60 minutes.
RNH is scoring 1.19 goals per 60 and 2.02 points per 60. (With a lot more offensive zone starts and better linemates.)
RNH is also at 1.29 goals per 60 and 7.29 points per 60 on the PP (assistmania!).
Couturier isn’t playing the PP, but he’s rocking the PK.
I’d say the jury is still out on this comparison.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I am not saying I don’t like Cooter I do and for this team in the long run I would rather have him. I just think RNH was deserving of the No. 1 pick and has put up good numbers.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
Yeah, I don’t disagree with you at all. But it’s interesting that their rate stats are so similar, given the perception of RNH as by far the best rookie.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
given the perception of RNH as by far the best rookie.
You obviously haven’t been talking to me enough.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 14, 2012 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
Well, I meant that RNH is likely going to be a runaway Calder winner. But yeah.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
He’s been injured for a while now – a potential opportunity for Coots or Reader to step it up in the second half.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 14, 2012 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
What happens when you remove A2s?
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 14, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
At 5-on-5 RNH is getting 0.36 A2/60, Couturier 0.34 A2/60. Negligible difference.
by everybodyhitswoohoo on Jan 14, 2012 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
Scoring gets really funny when you look at it adjusted for ice time. Here’s the Flyers’ scoring leaderboard in terms of 5 on 5 points per 60, among players with at least one point this season:
Giroux
Jagr
Hartnell
Voracek
Couturier
Read
Talbot
JVR
Briere
Simmonds
Rinaldo
Pronger
Zolnierczyk
Carle
Timonen
Meszaros
Schenn
Shelley
Coburn
Bourdon
Lilja
Gustafsson
Jake Voracek: offensive maven.
by everybodyhitswoohoo on Jan 14, 2012 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
This ranking seems pretty reasonable, aside from Schenn (whose stats are still feeling the effects of his slow start, I assume).
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I don’t disagree, just funny to see Couturier, Read, and Talbot ahead of JVR and Briere, and I wouldn’t have guessed Voracek is ahead of everyone not on the Giroux line.
by everybodyhitswoohoo on Jan 14, 2012 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
Briere SUCKS!
/JackCampbell’d
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
#1 overall in a deep draft as late as January
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I am pretty sure I remember that going into the draft, the 2011 Draft class was seen by many as one of the weaker draft classes in recent memory.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Really a 6 man draft I think. Lucky one of those 6 fell to 8.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 14, 2012 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
I remember hearing the phrase “six-man draft” a lot of times in the 24 hours I tried to care about the draft between when the Flyers traded for a draft pick and when they used it.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Haha yep.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 14, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
Weren’t we rumored to have been dealing with Winnipeg in a deal where we would’ve got Evander Kane and the #7 overall pick?
If only that had been true, we’d have gotten two of the guys from that six-man draft in Couturier and Hamilton. (And we’d have had Evander Kane, which would’ve been awesome and/or spectacular Matt Cooke repellent.)
by everybodyhitswoohoo on Jan 14, 2012 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
I thought people were saying “eight.”
/memory fail
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
in other news
how do you get a "sports hernia" if your to injured to ever play the sport
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
I can’t predict if what we have is good enough come playoff time, but we have plenty of time to figure that out. For now, we’re doing okay. I don’t feel a need to do anything hasty right now, especially because hasty often leads to overpaying. Let’s have some patience and see how Gus and JVR (and everyone else) do between now and the deadline.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Question for DG and other bloglords
In MLB, the Commish’s office will allow for a “negotiation period” (say, 48 hours) during a trade where one team can negotiate a long term contract with a player prior to the trade being consummated. In some cases, the trade is voided. Is there any such option in the NHL? Because while I am against a Suter rental, and I think a Weber trade is essentially impossible, I might like a trade where a long-term contract is signed as part of the transaction; this would probably require multiple players and draft choices (e.g., JvR and Voracek).
I am not up for Homer’s “wink and nod” agreement as apparently happened in the Hartnell and Kimmo signings.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Help!
Still waiting for help here…..someone signal DG for me?!?
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
You know the link for the signal is in my profile…
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 14, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
According to what I have in my copy of the Bylaws and Constitution, no. Trades aren’t really covered at all in the CBA, and they’re discussed only briefly in the Bylaws. Negotiations of any form with another club before the expiration of your current SPC are expressly forbidden in CBA Section 7.3, save for that 1 week period between the Draft and July 1st where pending RFAs are allowed to start discussing potential Offer Sheets with other clubs.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 14, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
My understanding is that JvR has been dealing with a hip problem that has slowed him down a bit.
Last season Mike Richards injured his wrist in October, and that, apparently, took a enough of a toll on him that his last season here was very negatively impacted.
I don’t know if the Flyers talk players out of dealing with injuries until the offseason, or if they just don’t encourage them more strongly to deal with these injuries before they get worse.
If it’s the team, stop throwing away resources!
If it’s the player making these choices, the team can’t force him to get surgery, but it can bench him until he does.
Please don’t trade JvR!
by charlie yankee on Jan 13, 2012 6:54 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Hmm… Luke Schenn is signed until 2016 at $3.6m a season. To date, he’s been a moderately reliable old-school defenseman, which is pretty damn impressive for a 22-year old, really. Hockey’s Future rated him as an 8.5B – which is actually better than his brother by a mild margin (Brayden is an 8.5C) – and says he’s a stay-at-home type, which is someone the Flyers could use. He’s also 9th in the league in hits this season thus far (no Flyer is in the top 30).
Ryan Suter will need a new contract this off-season, and he’s likely to get a raise from the $3.5m he makes this year. He’s more offensive, with well over 30 assists a year, and shockingly low PIMs. He’s 26, and Born In the USA™.
Tim Gleason is 28 and on an expiring contract for $2.75m a year. From everything I can glean, he’s just a nice steady defenseman – no surprises. He won’t wow you with hits or points, but one could say the defenseman you never notice is the one that makes no mistakes.
SO – quite frankly, Suter would need a raise to stay if the Flyers bagged him, and that almost certainly means letting Carle walk. Pass. Gleason would be an acceptable defenseman to have … but not to trade a potential star like JVR for him. Pass. (If either were signed beyond this season, the math changes significantly …)
But Luke Schenn intrigues me. He hasn’t yet met his full potential – but defensemen mature slower than forwards (and not as slow as goalies). He’s signed on the high end of reasonable for his current skills, but the addition of some confidence and a touch of offense, and that salary quickly becomes a bargain.
The problem comes on Day 1 of next season – BEFORE Pronger can go back on IR. You have to fit his salary under the cap regardless, and adding another top-four defenseman’s salary means that someone else has to go. Signing Schenn and retaining Vorcek and Carle for nominal raises puts the team .. .about $3m in the hole towards the current cap total. That doesn’t include signing Jagr, and also assumes the team finally buries Shelley somewhere in the Pine Barrens.
Therefore, I propose the following: clear the decks. You want Schenn? Fine – offer Toronto Scott Hartnell, Danny Briere, and Shelley (or some combination similar) for Schenn, Colby Armstrong, and Clarke MacArthur (plus someone to make the balance of salary work maybe). The team can afford to lose Briere, and if you’re gonna keep JVR you gamble that he pulls it out next season making Hartnell redundant (and I guarantee Floppa’s stock will never be higher after playing alongside G all season).
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 13, 2012 6:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Ummm...
Carle or Suter? Suter every day and twice on Sundays. Suter is a 26 year old with #1 potential. Carle is a 26 year old second pairing defenseman with offensive ability. It’s not even a comparison.
Broad Street Hockey's Reigning Trivia Champion
Then let’s get him in the offseason when we don’t have to give up anything for him :)
Babe, Bucky, Buckner, Boone, BALTIMORE!!!
I agree, if we start the Suter or Carle discussion, and we can have either one at the same price, I’d pick Suter in a heartbeat as well. Though I think it would be very nice to have them both.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jan 13, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
If Reuben Amaro were here, he'd know what to do.
He’d trade the Phantoms for Shea Weber and we’d all go buy season tickets.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
This is funny. However, in a salary cap league, it is also not allowed. To trade for Weber, you would have to trade Carle and/or jvR and/or Voracek, just to match salaries. Whether or not the Preds would go for that.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
bet they'd go for a little Dom Brown action though, huh?
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
RAJ would NOT trade Dom for Weber. He did not trade him for Crosby, so why would he trade him for Weber?
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
and we can have either one at the same price
That’s the catch – Suter’s new contract is more likely in the $5m+ range. Where do you fit that into the cap and keep the depth at forward???
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
It’s not apples to apples – Suter would likely cost in the $5m+ range to keep, while Carle is signed for a while at a decent price. Droppping Carle to add Suter means you also have to shed salary elsewhere … that was my point that you missed.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
There’s two problems with dealing JVR:
- He just signed a long-term contract. On the heels of the Carter/Richards trades, no one is going to trust the front office again.
- He is hurt, and therefore he isn’t worth as much as he could be. This could also be blunting his current production, so he really could be a 35-40 goal scorer but because of his hip he’s going to be around 20-25. And what do you say about a forward how scores 20-25 goals? There’s a whole bunch of guys who don’t.
Babe, Bucky, Buckner, Boone, BALTIMORE!!!
This. I’m helping out on the “possible” scenarios, but my favorite scenario is this one: nothing. My second favorite is: Gleason. My third favorite: see first favorite.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
I think people are putting a little too much stock into this whole “trust the front office” angle. The contracts are still gauranteed so its not like they are not going to get paid. I am sure Jeff Carter would say different but I don’t think this changes things much. Players get contracts and then get traded all the time. Not to mention Richards didn’t just sign his deal like Carter or JvR. I understand that it doesn’t look great but I seriously don’t think it will affect players comming here to play.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
Yes, but it’ll make them think twice about taking long-term, cap-friendly deals.
Babe, Bucky, Buckner, Boone, BALTIMORE!!!
JVR’s deal isnt cap friendly at all, its right at market value. The only one there took a cap friendly deal was Carter.
by Anders Jensen on Jan 14, 2012 3:29 AM EST up reply actions
JvR's been here way too long.
And if we trade him then it’ll be a 60% lineup turnover from the end of last year.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 13, 2012 7:40 PM EST reply actions
Do not want to trade JvR
He’s certainly been inconsistent but he is still only 22 years old. Also as stated earlier, moving JvR puts more pressure on the rookies Read, Scooter and Schenn to score more, not necessarily a good thing. Also, I don’t know if anybody has mentioned this yet, but as great as Jagr has been so far this year, there is a good chance that at his age he will wear down as the season continues. They will need JvR if this happens.
"When people see me sack the quarterback, I want them to see Jesus." - Reggie White
Twitter @JoshBernat17
JVR for Schenn straight up? No way.
JVR for Schenn + ? Possibly. But I do think JVR is hurt and that’s why he’s so inconsistent this year. If he comes out on fire after the trade rumors then we know it’s not the injury hampering his game and I say go for it. But if he plays this way down the stretch then I say keep him and let him recover because it’s got to be an injury. I just don’t understand why we’re playing injured guys who can only perform at 50% when they could be on IR and return at 100%. Makes no sense to me.
No.
Things I’d consider: 1) Gleason for not JVR. 2) Another defenseman for not JVR. 3) Standing pat.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I’d trade him for a second. We have one from the Kings and we may possibly have one from the Panthers, depending on if they choose to give us the 2nd for Versteeg this draft or next draft.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jan 13, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Just Curious
Because I know the Flyers or anybody would have to give up a ton to get him, is it just assumed that Weber is off the market due to him being an RFA?
"When people see me sack the quarterback, I want them to see Jesus." - Reggie White
Twitter @JoshBernat17
I don’t think it is impossible because nothing is but I think to get Weber the price would be way too steep. He is going to get a raise again this year in his salary, and what you have to give up to trade for him likely is too much. Now if you sign him to an offer sheet in the off season and Nashville doesn’t match you would still be giving up somewhere around 3 no. 1 picks and possibly more.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
Yeah, because Weber will definitely make more than 6.268M which will give Nashville 2 first rounders, a 2nd rounder, and a 3rd rounder from whomever signs him. If somebody tenders him to an offer sheet for more than 7.835M, Nashville gets 4 first round picks.
Pretty much Nashville will resign him, or get a ton of stuff for him in a trade or through RFA depending on how they go.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jan 13, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
If somebody tenders him to an offer sheet for more than 7.835M, Nashville gets 4 first round picks.
Ah, finally, a realistic post! Almost certainly, given that he is making $7.5 now, someone will offer $7.835. Thus, I keep saying the Weber trade is essentially impossible or horrific given that you have to match salaries and give up enough for Nashville to say buh-bye to those draft choices (and they are opposite Homer, they love draft choices). So to trade for Weber now would require some combination of at least two of the following, Carle, JvR and Voracek, and possibly all three, and probably more draft choices.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Almost certainly, given that he is making $7.5 now, someone will offer $7.835.
I’m not sure that follows naturally. If he were a UFA, I would agree wholeheartedly. But there’s a difference between being worth $7.5M and being worth $7.5M plus four first round picks.
The average first-round pick produces something like $3M in excess value (under the current CBA), so there’s effectively an extra $12M cost on that contract. That means a four-year, $8M/year offer sheet would be comparable in value to signing him as a UFA for $11M/year.
Which is why Weber didn’t get an offer sheet last year. Or Doughty. Or Stamkos. The compensation price tag on those elite offer sheets is so high that they’re effectively not really free agents.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
That’s a great point Eric I never looked at it that way before. It makes a lot of sense. Do you think the Flyers could offer less money per but many more years and that might be enough for Nashville to let him walk. I am not sure that would work. To be honest I would rather just get Suter, I think he is just as good as a player. Maybe not as good but very close and I think Suter makes Weber look better and vice versa.
"When the Flyers win a playoff series, as they did this past year, is when you yell at me for being wrong? Because I said the Flyers won’t win a round'?
Geoff Detweiler.
It depends on how the new CBA works — under the current CBA, offers longer than seven years get treated as costing more than their cap hits when you work out compensation.
Would he take 7.8M for 7 years? After Doughty signed for 7M per year for 8 years, I guess I have to think maybe he would.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Point taken, I thought about this as soon as I posted the above.
However, even at the $6.2M level, there are a boatload of draft choices (just not a cruise ship). So Weber would definitely still cost way more than Suter (if even they would be traded, which, again, I doubt).
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
it's one thing to embellish your story to get some play as a reporter
It’s another thing to lie.
"nothing’s been offered," Burke said. "I don’t know where the rumours started . . . but it’s not happening."
And again,
"We are not in trade discussion for Luke Schenn,"
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 9:09 PM EST reply actions
Who are the quotes from? A reporter?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Jan 13, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Brian Burke
Maple Leafs GM (reply fail)
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Just trying to figure who you were saying was lying, Burke or the reporter who was trying to get some play. I wouldn’t expect a GM to come out and say, “Sure we talking, here’s what’s on the table right now”.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Jan 13, 2012 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
He wouldn’t say “yes we are in talks” but he wouldn’t say “Nothing has been offered” “We are not in trade discussion for Luke Schenn” either. GMs are wordsmiths with the press and they wouldn’t be so definite either way if it was in the works.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
Unless Brian Burke openly despises the media?
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I'm in the PR field
nobody speaks in absolutes like that unless they’re telling the truth. He wouldn’t be so direct if there were anything at all happening behind the scenes.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
"I told Luke it’s not a guarantee that he wouldn’t be traded if something materializes, but we’re not in trade discussions with any team about him right now," Burke said. "We haven’t offered him to anybody. I don’t know where the rumours started. I told him that’s not happening."
The Leafs GM did acknowledge that his phone has been ringing a lot of late. Burke has made significant deals in late January or early February the past two seasons and has made noise that he is poised to do so again.
The Leafs are in the market for a forward with size, meaning Van Riemsdyk would fit the bill.
"We’re getting a lot of calls and we’re listening," Burke said. "But that’s very different than offering a player. Fielding a phone call on a player is very different than making a phone call on a player."
Burke added that things can move quickly when it comes to a deal.
"That’s the danger when you say right now nothing’s close," he said. "That can change with a phone call. That can change in 24 hours."
Kinda like that?
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
That's not what I'm talking about.
I’m saying that it annoys me when I read a story about how the Flyers are in talks to deal JVR for Luke Schenn and that “A deal is close” when all that’s happened is 17 teams have asked if he is available. It’s just like this Jeff Fisher story where just this morning “Jeff Fisher will sign with Miami later today” and “It’s nothing but a formality at this point” stories were running everywhere and it all turned out to be baseless. Let’s just refrain from projecting on these possible trades until something a lot more concrete is released.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Who are you saying made up the story, exactly? Dreger: " As I said, there have been some discussions [between the Leafs and Flyers], but to say that there’s a deal in the works is premature at this stage." Then he speculates about players. Then Travis writes an article analyzing whether or not the Flyers need to trade for a defensemen and who they could target, without commenting at all on the likelihood of such a trade.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Where are you getting “A deal is close” from? No one reputable has said that.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Phone calls have been fielded and names have been thrown around (nothing wrong with that), but no one worth a damn is reporting a Flyers-Leafs JVR-Schenn swap is close to being a done deal.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
OT
Phantoms come from behind to win 5-4 over the Hamilton Bulldogs in regulation. Denis Hamel named top star; other Phantoms goals by Jon Kalinski, Brandon Manning, and Tyler Brown. Bacashua started, gave up 4 goals in the second, replaced by Leighton for the third and he gets the win. Phantoms now in 2nd place in their division, 8th in the conference. Still in playoff contention.
Hey i'm getting word that Henrik Lundqvist received a call from a Chicago area code today!
BREAKING: Lunqvist to Blackhawks in the works! Deal will happen by week’s end.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 9:50 PM EST reply actions
Hey, didn’t you see that on Eklund’s page?
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Am I the only one who thinks it is stupid to trade a guy when his value is probably lower than it will ever be for the next decade or so in JVR?
Let the kid get healthy, start Gus and wait this out. These are like the freaking Kaberle for Carter talks. They’re idiotic.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
the problem with that is,
I think this front office thinks this team has a shot at the cup this year. (I don’t) If you stand pat and “wait this out” the trade deadline will pass and you will have no options to improve your defense in a significant way. PS: It’s easy to say “let’s just wait this out” when your not in the middle of watching our defense squander a sizeable lead with ugly turnovers that destroy our goalie’s confidence.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
There seems to be a goalie who isn’t having those issues on this roster…
I am in no way denying our blue line has issues, needs to tighten up on the turnovers and all that. It is 100% true, but let’s be honest that isn’t Bryz’s main problem.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jan 13, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
no but let's face something else
Bryz is not going anywhere and this Front Office WILL BE hell bent on making this work. That means building his confidence back up. To do that, we can’t have the issues we are currently having on D.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Making a shitty trade that hurts this team long term in no way helps Project Bryz work long term though….
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jan 13, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. I would not do the trade. Like I said, I don’t believe we can win it this year anyway. We’re a year or two away but the front office has done stupid things all year long. Why wouldn’t they make a terrible trade to cover up another mistake they made?
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Hilarious
We agree completely that we’ve spent a half dozen posts playing some sort of weird inverse devils advocate against each other.
In summary we agree that:
- Selling Low on JVR is stupid
- Bryz’s struggles may have strained the FO to the point where they will feel the need to improve the defense
- The recent bad play of our defense has warranted at least kicking the tires of a trade here or there
- There is no reason to make a stupid, shortsighted trade or move to make a run this year, especially when that move will likely not make this team that much better this year and will significantly hurt it long term
Agreed?
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jan 14, 2012 3:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
BUT i am saying that I still believe they will lol.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 14, 2012 5:22 AM EST up reply actions
FYI, this is a very nice summary for the rest of us!
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Surely we can afford a slightly weaker defense with a franchise goalie like Bryz to bail us out.
In all seriousness though, please please don’t trade JVR. I think if he wasn’t injured he might have had his breakout season this year and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Just remember the playoffs. JVR has shown flashes of superstar-like brilliance that Luke Schenn, while a good prospect, hasn’t (as far as I know)
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 13, 2012 10:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I know it’s really early in his career and this analogy makes absolutely no sense, but I just keep thinking back to the 2009 NFL playoffs when Shonn Greene looked like the next #1 running back in this league and through the next few seasons, everyone was just waiting for those flashes of brilliance to turn into something consistent and now it’s clear that he just isn’t what everyone thought he was.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
If that is what you thought of Greene you are insane. I’ll leave it at that.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jan 13, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
lol like I said it’s a completely irrational analogy but it’s the same kind of situation i fear for JVR. I wish to god otherwise though.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
haha interesting analogy but to be honest I think most star players begin with flashes of brilliance. It’s not like Giroux just became Giroux overnight; in his rookie season he had some mistakes and wasn’t too strong defensively but occassionally he threw a pass on a teammate’s stick which was unreal.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 13, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. I’m not saying he won’t be who we thought he was. I’m just saying that those flashes of brilliance shouldn’t govern all decision making regarding his future with the Flyers.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 13, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
You know that JVRs point total per game this year is almost the same as in the playoffs last year?
Yes he might be able to jump up his production even more but he is still doing pretty okay for an injuried player.
by Anders Jensen on Jan 14, 2012 3:38 AM EST up reply actions
maybe we have it all wrong?
Obviously the flyers and leafs are talking a trade..what are the chances burke is dangling phaneuf instead of schenn for jvr?
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 13, 2012 10:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Since he said schenn has not come up at all whatsoever
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 13, 2012 10:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s not what he said.
“We’re getting a lot of calls and we’re listening,” Burke said. “But that’s very different than offering a player. Fielding a phone call on a player is very different than making a phone call on a player.”
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
on a phone so i cant copy paste
But he said he told schenn he ips not in any discussions that involve him for any player…so my above question still stands
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 13, 2012 10:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think he’s saying that there’s no specific proposal on the table involving Schenn and they aren’t offering him, but he’s listening to everything. All that’s being reported is that they’ve talked, and that there’s players on the other team that each is interested in.
That’s my take. I don’t think we can pretend to know, nor do I suggest we take Burke at his word.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
BREAKING
Tim Thomas in talks with local vendor for a case of Sam Adams. Craig Custance on ESPN with reaction.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 10:45 PM EST reply actions
I heard it was Magic Hat
What’s your source? Mine’s the newspaper stand guy.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Shoddy reporting as always from newspaper stand guy...
always go to the guy down the street with the lisp who feeds the pigeons little bits of dry dog food.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Lol personal experience?
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 14, 2012 12:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If amnesty is introduced and there’s a chance we can still stash Pronger on LTIR, do you get rid of Bryz instead?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
why would ownership swallow that amount of money
to watch him play for someone else? The deal is for 9 fuckin years lol
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
It’s longer and more expensive than Pronger’s contract. We could go with cheaper goaltenders on shorter contracts, potentially do better than with Bryz, and have more money to spend on improving the team elsewhere.
Even if we CAN’T amnesty Pronger’s deal, it may be the better way to go. You could even pay a goalie league minimum and then have more freed up cap space than with Pronger gone.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
You really think
the FO is going to admit defeat on Bryz before at least 2 years from now?
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
I would do it. But I would never have signed that contract in the first place.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
lol
well if we’re talkin about what WE would do, Bob would have been starting a month ago.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
But what we would do, if we got control now, I believe would be to amnesty Bryz.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I know we all would rather not,
but we HAVE to ride this thing out to it’s bitter end. This was too big a deal to sweep under the rug. We have to give him more time to fix it or this was a collossal miscue for the franchise.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 13, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
I could have told you signing Ilya Bryzgalov to a 9-year, $51M contract was a colossal miscue the moment the deal was announced as official.
But people were not listening then.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
by Justin F. on Jan 14, 2012 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Uh, I said so at the time, in fact I was against them trading for him in the first place and doing the weird one-way negotiation, given the goalie market crash that I discussed in free agency 2010 and that happened again in free agency 2011. That negotiation position (lost face if a deal had not been consummated) ensured a colossally bad deal, although the NMC on top was the part I really did not get. They should have John Nash’d he and Vokoun.
In fact, most of us at BSH were appalled at the time.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
I wasn’t talking about fellow BSHers. ;-)
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Because Snider has a bottomless pit of cash? And because he may have realized too late that no goalie is worth a 9-year contract.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
The thing is, I have no idea if they’re learning anything. We have Pronger’s contract, now Bryzgalov’s contract, and I mean Ryan Howard’s contract looms over the city.
See, in Football, you just cut the player. Maybe these other teams thought the same thing.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
It’s not going to help us much in this situation; the current agreement is still valid until September 15th, 2012 and Free Agency begins July 1st. Unless the new CBA is signed and ratified before July 1st, we really can’t use that theoretical cap-free buyout on Pronger or Bryz and spend that money on our rental player before they become a free agent. Planning to stash Pronger on LTIR also doesn’t allow us to spend his money on somebody else in the offseason, because we have to stay under the cap until he can actually be placed onto LTIR.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 14, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Haha! I should have thought of this too! Of course!
/Laughs hysterically as he imagines he and team falling off cliff
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Depth!?
keep reading about the offensive depth… i agree, but seeing talbot, after the staios hit on the ice unable to get up quickly made me realize how thin the depth is…
Good point. We’ll throw in a second which you can flip to Toronto for David Steckel.
Patron saint of quality footwear.
Not a problem, as long as this is tied to a second trade, Andreas Lilja, Matt Walker and Jody Shelley for Dion Phaneuf (spelling?)
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Different trading partner
First, a stipulation: my preference is still NO trades.
However, if Homer has the hots for a deal for a D-man, and Gleason gets snagged by someone else, I just noticed that getting Beauchemin from Anaheim really might be realistic. Anaheim has 10 UFAs and 2 RFAs out of 23 on the roster. And given that these guys have pretty much played out the string with that current team, and right now they are a whopping 17 points out of a playoff position – wow! – we can expect the fire sale of the century around Feb. 27. Of course, Anaheim has a history of making late playoff runs, but Carolina’s playoff hopes are actually more realistic right now than the Ducks.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
wonder if columbus deals wisnewski at the deadline
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
Doubt it. Even if they wanted to I have a feeling no one’s gonna want that ridiculous contract, especially for a guy who’s currently injured.
by everybodyhitswoohoo on Jan 14, 2012 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
I doubt it’d be a fire sale. They’d want to trade for picks or young players under contract. We can afford that of course, but it’s not going to be a fleecing.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
FYI, because Allen’s name has been thrown around but I hadn’t heard anything from any sources about it, Carchidi says Gleason AND Allen are both on the Flyers’ radar.
by everybodyhitswoohoo on Jan 14, 2012 1:25 AM EST reply actions
Someone in another thread mentioned Allen was not quite as good, but I don’t have any idea personally.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Which makes him cheap to acquire. Considering he got swapped last year for a player on an expiring contract who no longer plays in the NHL, that tells you how much he’ll be worth on the market this year.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
But then he might not be that much of an upgrade over Gus.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
wow people are up late. must be a trade brewing.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 14, 2012 1:28 AM EST reply actions
OT but
From Bobby Ryan:
Bobby Ryan @b_ryan9 23m
Coolest thing about tonight was meeting pelle eklund. Little star struck. Used to have glass seats watching him spin when I was a pup!
If only we could somehow manage to get Bobby.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 14, 2012 2:08 AM EST reply actions
He is the prize jewel of unobtainium.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
by Dr. Steve on Jan 14, 2012 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This may be your best post ever, Dr. Steve.
Moby Ryan.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
he wanted to be a flyer sobad when he was drafted i wonder when he becomes a ufa if he immediatly calls holmgren or snyder and takes a discount to play for us still
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
You actually have this backwards, the Flyers wanted him bad.
Recall that he spent his high school years in So Cal, going to the beach. The Anaheim gig is not a bad one for such a player.
(Or at least on draft day, things may not be quite as sweet now).
/Lived 5 miles from where Honda Center is. Trust me, not a bad gig.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
If the Flyers swap JVR for Schenn, I hope they ask for more than Schenn. Personally, I hope that they don’t trade JVR until they see if Gus will work out on the blueline, but if a JVR trade has to happen, I hope there will be other picks and players added to the deal.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
They’ll ask for more than just Schenn, but I don’t see Brian Burke giving up too much more beyond an additional minor prospect or a 2nd/3rd round pick.
JvR has the ceiling of a 40-goal guy, but his lack of a killer instinct really puts a damper on that. They thought he turned a corner, but it looks like that was a short-lived hot-streak more than a career adjustment. The timing of that extension couldn’t have been worse… they could have a $4.25M Blake Wheeler on their hands… better to buy high sell high than to be stuck buying high selling low. Schenn is exactly the kind of player that Homer loves to collect.
I don’t mind giving up JvR for a stud defenseman. You got to give something up to get something in return and with the Flyers offensive depth, I’d be more than happy sacrificing some of it to have amazing depth in defense. Not sure if Schenn is really that stud defenseman though. Suter certainly is but the extenuating circumstances around him cause me to shy away considering acquiring him has the potential of putting us in an even worse cap situation.
"Jagr doesn’t have moves. He has grizzled old man power. He bends reality to his will with a scowl alone." - BannedStreetBully
Opposing Ilya Bryzgalov as Philadelphia Flyers' goalie since June 23, 2011.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jan 14, 2012 11:51 AM EST reply actions
I love watching everybody value JVR over Schenn to the point where a first or second round pick has to be added with Schenn to make it fair.
Both at 22 years old. Schenn has top-pairing defenseman potential. JVR has top-line forward potential. Both are solid, but complimentary pieces at this point in time. Both are signed long-term.
So why is a straight up deal bad? I get not wanting to do it, but suggesting Toronto has to throw in a first or second is just completely overvaluing JVR or undervaluing Schenn.
Further reading: http://theleafsnation.com/2012/1/13/should-the-leafs-trade-luke-schenn-for-james-van-riemsdyk
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 11:51 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
In terms of value in a vacuum, you’re right – but in terms of value to the club and considering the existing roster depth, JVR is WAY more valuable. Can you name another top-line left wing prospect in the system that has shown they can play in the NHL once Floppa leaves in another year? No? I can think of a couple defensemen that have come up and shown they can play at the NHL level. That means wing is a position of need more than defense, I would say.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
This is why I said “I get not wanting to do it”, but people aren’t saying “I wouldn’t trade JVR for Schenn because we need LWs”, they’re saying “I wouldn’t JVR for Schenn unless Toronto threw in a 1st round pick”.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
“People” are stupid. And homers gonna over-value.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Because JVR and Schenn are still young, they are both hard to value. Could JVR end up a perennial All-Star scoring 40 goals a year or more? Sure. Could Schenn develop into a Norris Trophy candidate. Perhaps. But I think there’s more risk in trading away a 40-goal scorer than an elite shutdown defenseman. In my opinion, if the price for Schenn is JVR, that’s too expensive. Now, Hartnell for Schenn …
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Sorry, Geoff, I’m with TNBrando on this one. However, I agree with you that asking for a #1 in addition might be too much.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
So you value JVR’s potential more than Schenn’s potential. Again, no problem with that.
It’s the ridiculous “Hartnell for Schenn” or “Add a 1st round pick” I have a problem with. There’s no way Schenn’s worth is anywhere close to Hartnell’s. There’s no way JVR’s value is a first round pick more than Schenn’s.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
I’d consider Hartnell for Schenn and a pick, or Hartnell for Schenn and Brad Ross or a similar minor-leaguer. It would still leave a gap at winger, but clearing some cap space for next season will be VERY important. It’s the short-sightedness that kills me – YES we could trade for Suter, but where’s the $5m+ he will want for next season gonna come from???? (And I am not directing this at you in particular, Geoff.)
The real catch is – do we plan the roster for next season or not? And if we do, is Pronger on that active skaters list? If we’re merely looking at this like it’s some video game, and winning as much as possible NOW is paramount, then sure – trade JVR for whomever. Shore up the defense. Get some small-market club to take a big goalie contract off our hands. Do all kinds of crazy shit. But in reality the FO does not operate in a vacuum (as much as sometimes we do wonder) and next season has to be a consideration. Even just tinkering with Capgeek a bit, you can see that giving mild raises to Voracek and Carle pretty much burns up the cap space – and that doesn’t include Jagr. Something has to give; you can’t have the most expensive goaltending duo, AND the most expensive defense, AND several of the highest paid forwards.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Why would Toronto trade a 22 year old, NHL steady, future first pairing defender for Scott Hartnell? And they have to throw something in on top of that?
This is my point.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 4:15 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Well … that’s their problem, ain’t it? :)
Not like they have the cap room either. But given the degree of silliness already perpetrated here, I’m gonna start a new rumor for Frannie to parrot.
Danny Briere, Scott Hartnell, Matt Walker, Jody Shelley, and Ilya Bryzgalov to Toronto for Mikael Grabovski, Colby Armstrong, Luke Schenn, and Jonas Gustavsson. You heard it here first! (And if they’d take that deal, I’d absolutely freak out. That is SO weighted in the Flyers favor it’s completely absurd. Almost – but not quite – on par with JC’s suggestions on Pensburgh.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t understand your distaste for Frankie Valli, but no need to get into it. But when NHL.com starts talking about it, and Brian Burke is going on the record about it, I think it’s safe to say he did a good job.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Oh – I didn’t mean this particular rumor (JVR/Schenn) … some of the more ridiculous ones have come from Fran though. This one seems unfortunate but true on some level, yes.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
In summary, there is value to be found in the smaller contract Schenn has. But trading a winger is silly, because the team has very little depth at wing. You wanna trade a player who is in a slump, fine. You wanna keep your D intact, fine. You haven’t become a Bryz-atheist yet, fine. That means you find someone to take $6.5 million worth of itty-bitty center off your hands, or you make a package of lesser players in exchange for one player.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
I’m glad I didn’t suggest Simmonds/Gus for Schenn and a 2nd.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Seriously.
I get people who prefer JVR over Schenn. I understand saying “I wouldn’t trade JVR for Schenn unless Toronto threw in X”.
I don’t understand people thinking those trades are fair, or that Toronto would even consider it. Some modifications are of course going to occur, but it won’t be adding a 1st round pick or substituting Hartnell for JVR.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 4:18 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Burke’s too experienced to fall for that. On the other hand, there are teams like Colorado and Montreal which value players differently than, well, most everyone else.
Lifelong Tennessean, Flyers' fan for life
Exactly.
Semyon Varlamov? Mike Cammalleri? Yup.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Well here's a new wrinkle...
"Jagr doesn’t have moves. He has grizzled old man power. He bends reality to his will with a scowl alone." - BannedStreetBully
Opposing Ilya Bryzgalov as Philadelphia Flyers' goalie since June 23, 2011.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jan 14, 2012 12:09 PM EST reply actions
Wow.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 14, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I’m gonna postpone my moaning and wailing temporarily to figure out line combinations:
Hartnell – Giroux – Jagr
Talbot – Briere – Voracek
Read – Schenn – Simmonds
Z – Couturier – Rinaldo
Ugh.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Maybe Scooter/Z/Read are kept together? They looked pretty great the other night! Then you have a new “4th” line of Schenn/Simmonds/Rinaldo which would also be kind of explosive.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
I admit – I’ve been out of the loop a couple games … but why is Talbot playing with Briere, instead of Read?
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Something I still don’t understand either.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 4:19 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I think its that Voracek+Talbot and Voracek+Briere have looked good (I dont know how they actually have performed tho), so Talbot gets to play with Briere.
by Anders Jensen on Jan 14, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
And that defies all logic.
I don’t know that they’ve been bad, but the three of them together just doesn’t make sense.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t they have one or two good games together? Played well together.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Jan 14, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know. I’m a little behind in games.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps Lavvy has finally decided to mitigate the gaping defensive black hole that is Danny Briere. Pairing him with Talbot and Voracek would go a long way towards that.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 14, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think he’s done this all year, the lines overall are more balanced, no more Leino-Briere-Hartnell no defense line. I thought it may have been in response to getting outmatch in the Boston series last year.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Jan 14, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve missed the past couple games, I was just pulling the line combinations from the last game thread. They are playing together? How do they look?
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
I would answer, but I don’t use my eyes :)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 14, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Well, there goes those trades. Concussions make you radioactive on the trade market.
Babe, Bucky, Buckner, Boone, BALTIMORE!!!
A sliver lining.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
i think we should trade for players without brains. we need more of those.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 14, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
I thought we didn’t want Avery…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Who may become av available after telling his coach in the AHL he wasn’t playing last game.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Jan 15, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
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