There's been a lot of talk recently about Luke Schenn for JVR. I wouldn't consider this trade without also asking for a first and/or making the Leafs take Matt Fucking Walker (MFW). After the jump Pros and Cons (my opinion of course) of trading JVR for Schenn, and other thoughts on the Flyers and some long term plans.
1) It makes the Flyers instantly better, and really there’s no way the Schenn Brothers don’t both sign to play together.
2) If Pronger can come back for the playoffs (rumored) or next year, we have an absolutely filthy top 6 and can let Timmonen take some time off.
3) We most likely (never say never) wouldn’t be resigning Matt "Turnover Machine" Carle this off-season
4) No more playing with fire with Matt Walker and waivers.
5) Brayden and Luke Schenn will take a Neidermeyer like discount to stay with us for their whole careers.
1) If Pronger can’t come back Luke Schenn isn’t good enough. We need a real #1, especially if realignment passes.
2) I still have faith that JVR is gonna grow up. When we were his age we were skipping class to day drink.
3) We're basically broadcasting to Giroux, Cooter, and Baby Schenn: DON'T SIGN A LONG TERM SECOND CONTRACT HERE. No one is gonna sign long term with the Flyers without an ironclad NMC, which might not mean much as we give everyone a NMC already.
4) Is he going to give us more than Matt Carle going forward? We’re basically trading a guy who plays ok defense and is strong on offense for a guy who is strong on defense but ok on offense.
If we trade JVR for Schenn, I'm also asking for a first. Then, I take those two firsts and I try to move up high in this upcoming draft for another young gun in our system. I would try to move our two firsts and Bob to either CBJ or EDM for their first round pick. Edmonton is so top heavy right now...they would get two picks in a deep draft to provide more to their ridiculous young core and a young NHL proven goalie. CBJ needs to continue their building (it can't be a rebuild until you build). Those two firsts and a goalie would go a long way. Someone last night said Bob is actually going to be an RFA, not a UFA, which makes me wonder if that adds to his trade value, or makes me want us to keep him even more. If the CBA has a bullet, do we say bye-bye to Bryz?
I was wrong Scotty. You can play. You can't skate, but you can play. I'll admit when I'm wrong, you've gone from one of my least favorite Flyers to a guy I want resigned (2Y, 9M? 3Y/12?).
Could JVR losing his job to Hartnell be what killed his confidence? We can’t move Hartnell, and if JVR is that fragile he’s not gonna cut it with the Flyers anyway. Then again, if he leaves and goes on to dominate, ugh. I would like to think he’s not that mentally fragile in a sport with multiple lines. It’s not like it’s football and he’s being relegated to backup and special teams or something.
Do we re-sign Jagr? Is he enjoying playing with G enough that he’ll take a pay cut? I know he’s been a good soldier, but he’s Jaromir Fucking Jagr. Let’s be real. We either need to re-sign Matt Carle, or pick up another defenseman. (Trading JVR for Schenn really solves this, but I put my thoughts on that above).
Is Rick Nash available? If so, at what cost? Schenn and JVR? No way. Cooter/Schenn, Bob, and a first? Let's talk. JVR, Bob, and a first? I'm in.
IS PRONGER COMING BACK? That weighs so heavily on our moves, and I feel like it's never discussed...we just assume a guy who almost lost an eye and has a severe concussion will come back, even though he's already a first ballot lock for the HOF, has a Hart, a Norris, and a Ring.
If we make the aforementioned JVR and a first for Schenn, will Suter be available in the offseason? If we think we can get him as a UFA should we even trade for Schenn? If we can move the two firsts and Bob for a lottery pick, would we do it before or after the lottery? If it's CBJ you do it before the lottery without a second though, if it's Edmonton we might want to see where they end up. We need a young defenseman badly. Had the Winnepeg Jets not taken the hometown boy we likely would have gotten Doug Hamilton in the draft and had our young stud to groom. Instead we made the (correct) decision to cash in our chips after a big hand and took Cooter.
Having too many centers is usually a great problem to have in the NHL, but when they're as young as Schenn and Cooter you don't want them sitting on the bench getting 10 minutes a game. Briere is reaching the point in his career where his main role is going to be powerplay and the easiest minutes (some would argue he's been there his whole career) which will open up minutes for Cooter. I see Cooter being a much better Jordan Staal. He's already a defensive presence, has the size and the grit, but he has much more offensive upside. A center quartet of Giroux-Cooter-Schenn-Talbot moving forward is incredibly well balanced. With Schenn and Cooter coming on offensively in recent months, I don't know which would be the two or three, but obviously the three gets more defensive responsibility. Schenn was labeled as the next Richie, but I think he's way more athletic and polished. Will he be as good defensively? Who knows. Cooter may already be there. Briere will be taking the powerplay time, but there's always room for another center when the other team is down a man.
One other thought...before we even consider these moves...Is Pronger coming back? If Pronger is coming back, we need a rental and then we should try to find a young #1 for the long term, and we have some time. If Pronger has told the Flyers "I'm retiring after this playoff run, I'll try to play" then we REALLY need to go after Suter or Weber.
Back to long-term...We cannot continue to thrive under our current contracts without some serious production from ELCs. Think about it…this off season JVR’s raise is basically a break even with Jagr’s contract.
Hopefully the new CBA has a few changes, and we know the Flyers and Pens will push for these, and they have major juice:
1) Amnesty on one contract. You still have to pay it, but that player doesn’t count against your cap and becomes a UFA instantly. I’m assuming this would go to Bryz unless he turns it around or some of these other changes happen, in which case it would probably go to someone else.
2) One of these:
a) An NBA style cap where a player’s current salary is his cap hit, meaning Briere and Bryzgalov and Pronger’s contracts would all have smaller cap hits moving forward
b) A NFL style cap hit with a signing bonus prorated over the life of the deal, and then the yearly pay amount is added to it...i.e. If Crosby signs a 10 year, 150M contract with 20M up front, then salaries of 20M, 25M, 25M, 25M, 10M, then 5M a year the rest of the way instead of a $15M cap hit each year he’d have cap hits of 22,27,27,27,12,7,7,7,7,7. Yes, this contract example is absurd but I wanted easy math.
c) A one DRAFTED player per team "No Cap Hit" designation…meaning theFlyers could pay Giroux or the Pens pay Crosby FAR more than any other team, the catch is you have to have drafted the guy. Would you be able to declare who the guy is each year, or would it be in the contract? Fun question
d) Some sort of revamping of the 35+ rule, as it doesn’t really do anything but cause problems. I would understand the rule if it said "any contract over X number of years to any player," but the way it is doesn’t solve anything. The Devils and Rangers and Flyers still used the loophole to get below market contracts, they just used it on younger players for ridiculously long deals. This has to be fixed.
3) I know I had one other thing I wanted to add, but I forget what it is. I'll probably put it in the comments.
Anyway, whatever trade we make has to be made with an educated guess about the next CBA.
Sorry for the disjointed formatting...this started as an email with my boy who is a Flyers fan and a minor league coach, and I tried to make it a fan post.
I need a life. BSH, you my only friend :'(
/No seriously, I live in the South now. I need my hockey fix and there are like 3 people at my job who follow hockey closely.