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Ilya Bryzgalov, Sergei Bobrovsky... and another Flyers goalie? What?

CBC's Elliotte Friedman consistently puts out the best weekly read in the hockey world -- his 30 Thoughts column. This week is no different, and this little thought from the well-plugged-in writer was fascinating.

It's interesting to hear other teams talk about the Flyers. If there's one thing they really respect, it's Philly's willingness to make bold decisions. That's why there's a suspicion that if Ilya Bryzgalov or Sergei Bobrovsky doesn't grab a stranglehold on the net, Philadelphia may look at someone else (on a short-term contract) to calm the position.

Another goalie?

Here's the one thing there: Sergei Bobrovsky has taken the stranglehold on the position, but Peter Laviolette, Jeff Reese and the coaching staff are giving Bryzgalov starts because he's worth $51 million and it's important to at least attempt to get him back on track. There's nothing wrong with that (especially in January) but it doesn't mean that there's not a competent goalie on the team right now. There definitely is one -- he's just not the "right" guy.

I guess the suggestion here is that if Bob falls off and Bryz continues his fall into a Black Hole, the Flyers would be interested in some short-term help. I guess it makes some sense in the weirdest way possible, but I just can't imagine that happening. Another goalie at the deadline? What?

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BFP?

Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.

Matt Read for Calder!

Jeff Skinner, at 6 years old, is the youngest player in the NHL.

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Jan 17, 2012 12:54 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

BFP?

Barc-Flandres Pleurisy?

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Jan 17, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Who the hell would it even be?

"Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"

by PraiseMartyMoose on Jan 17, 2012 12:54 PM EST reply actions  

Apparently the FO really liked what they saw from LaForest in the Alumni Game…

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2012 12:54 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

Trees!

Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.

Matt Read for Calder!

Jeff Skinner, at 6 years old, is the youngest player in the NHL.

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Jan 17, 2012 12:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Who didn’t? (Aside from the Rangers alumni…)

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Jan 17, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s it. I’m convinced that the fans are actually running this team now. That’s the only thing that would explain this knee-jerk reactionary idiocy.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 12:56 PM EST reply actions  

Hey wait – I thought WE were fans!?!

Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!

by MaximumTalbot on Jan 17, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, the dumb loud ones.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if they really insist on throwing away more money, I would gladly be the third goalie.

Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Read, Rinaldo and Sestito Flyercrushes until his return

by Cillo stache on Jan 17, 2012 12:57 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Worked in the SC run with Boucher and Leighton.

Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!

by MaximumTalbot on Jan 17, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Until Math Happened. We got Wild’ed in the Finals.

Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011

by chrislanci on Jan 17, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Michael Leighton’s 5-hole can only defy math for so long.

As long as 70 minutes of ice time is being doled out to AHLers and Matt Ellis, the Sabres are basically doomed

by Ubiquitous on Jan 17, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I wish Michael Leighton had a permanent math-defying 5-hole.

Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Jan 17, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

If only Michael Leighton had a black hole instead of a five-hole. Then the puck would slow down and begin to stretch every time it got near there. Shutouts.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Jan 17, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey goalie! You’re not a black hole! You just SUCK!

by Eric T. on Jan 17, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Easy solution

Offer the posts and crossbar a salary.

Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.

Matt Read for Calder!

Jeff Skinner, at 6 years old, is the youngest player in the NHL.

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Jan 17, 2012 12:58 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

Never gonna happen

by FLYERS_ALL_DAY on Jan 17, 2012 1:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

It’s probably just Couturier, you guys. He’s willing to be a goalie if it helps the team win.

I heart our rookies.

"Who's more crazy? Who's more...weird?"

by LeepinLizardz on Jan 17, 2012 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

if

the only plus side about this is flyers were willing to even remotely consider this than they should have no problem buying out, amnesty-ing or whatever if possible bryz.

because if you bring in another goalie and still keep bryz on the books then… just… wow.

by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jan 17, 2012 1:14 PM EST reply actions  

NO

First off there would have to be an amnesty. Even then they may not want to blow 40+ mill to let him walk after one year. Buyout has to be out of the question because its dead cap space for 16yrs I believe. The pronger situation doesn’t help especailly if his career is over since LTIR doen’t happen till the season starts. There offeasons would suck.

by Fran Galasso on Jan 17, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Heheheh

This is fun. Haha :D

Richie will forever be my cap'n... awaiting his return since 6/2011
Mesz Dispenser Lovin'.. Mezzy Smile/ Knee Pump addicted... "Knee Pump That Shit Out!!!!"
OH HE CAN DAZZLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RELENTLESS PURSUIT
5.14.2010 5.24.2010 4.24.2011

10.06.2011 The Quest begins again!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Jillian Shoffstall on Jan 17, 2012 1:15 PM EST reply actions  

I posted this in the Fly By, but it is probably more appropriate here

(Since this appears to be a thread topic? :-))

This is the plan that other teams heard about!

Homer: Scooter, you’ve played very well for us
Scooter: Thanks, Mr. Holmgren!
Homer: I know you’re a regular center, but we’d like to ask you to learn a new position.
Scooter: Oh, sure, I’ve played the wing before, no problem, let Matt play center
Homer: Uh, not wing.
Scooter: Defense? I don’t have much experience there, but we’ve had some injuries there, so, sure…
Homer: Uh, not defense either…

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

How the hell is this not green yet?

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Jan 17, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Get Direct TV.
Actually no, don’t get Direct TV because they don’t have CSN which means you won’t be able to watch your goalie struggle, which means you won’t have no faith in your goalie, which means….
Actually, on second thought, get Direct TV.

Bryz has low self esteem
Awaiting the return of the G-stache

by Philly37 on Jan 17, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll rec it here too!

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Jan 17, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Two’s company, three’s a crowd.

Prepare your sleep apparatus.
On the twitterverse

by jello44 on Jan 17, 2012 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

I like threesomes as much as the next person, but this is a tad ridiculous.

Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Jan 17, 2012 1:22 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Jagr shoots, Jagr scores!!!!!!

by Vinny A on Jan 17, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Trade Bryzgalov to Columbus for Jeff Carter and a goalie

Clockwork Orange 10/11

by Giroux is God on Jan 17, 2012 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

If it’s Mark Dekanich, cool.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 17, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!

by MaximumTalbot on Jan 17, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Bryzgalov for Mark Dekanich, Matt Calvert, and a 1st in next year’s draft.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Jan 17, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Done.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 17, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You know, if this trade occurred, besides the fans’ torches and pitchforks, the FBI might intervene.

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

The best third string goalie in hockey

Anterro Nittymaki of the Sharks. He could just as easily sit in our press box as San Jose’s. But why would we trade for another goalie, isn’t our goaltending playoff savior in the AHL going to be ready to save us again? Micheal Leighton for the game 1 start.

by agam22 on Jan 17, 2012 1:32 PM EST reply actions  

If the Flyers are going to trade for him, make sure it’s before the next time they play Winnipeg.

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Several things going on here.

Bob is as good an option as anything you might be able to turn up in a trade.

However, according to Bourne in the Backhand Shelf post, Lavy can’t ride Bob without showing up Holmgren. The implication being that if Bryz can’t be the guy, they’d have to get another “name” goaltender to save face.

However, Friedman also notes in this week’s column that the Flyers are wanting to add D in order to deal with Boston’s ability to pressure with 4 lines. That makes a ton of sense, imo.

Can they add a “name” goalie and an impact D? I don’t see how they do it under the cap, even with Pronger’s LTIR space.

So what’s more pressing, the G or the D?

I can’t see Holmgren cutting off his nose to spite his face. If it comes down to it, I think he swallows his pride and plays Bob in the stretch and the playoffs, if the performances indicate that’s the right move.

All in all, I’m not buying the G speculation from EF here, although I do grant that he’s plugged in and thoughtful.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Jan 17, 2012 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

...

Hey, a 3 goalie carousel didn’t work last season in the playoffs (Bob-Boosh-Leighton), but I’m sure it’ll work just fine this time around. What could possibly go wrong?

"That was a lot of fun. We don't go to jail, we beat up their chicken forwards, we score ten goals, and we win. And now the Moose drinks beer." -Andre "Moose" Dupont

by LVHokejs on Jan 17, 2012 1:39 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Hey, we still have Leighton. I say we try to trade for Boosh and get the band back together, featuring Bryz. He can be the Nico to last year’s Velvet Underground

by agam22 on Jan 17, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Honestly, I know a lot of people around here are fond of Boosh, but I never want him to play another game for the Flyers.

Jagr shoots, Jagr scores!!!!!!

by Vinny A on Jan 17, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

give bryz a couple years… not worth it to throw it all away on a short term plan. seems like the flyers M.O. — win now — mindset has failed in the past. you sign the guy, now give him a chance. and it’s not particularly bryzy’s fault: 3.0+ gpa

by fitzy first on Jan 17, 2012 1:43 PM EST reply actions  

Phantom goalie?

Phantoms have three consec games this weekend. If Bryz agrees (a necessary protocol), let him go work up a lather and get the “work” he deems necessary for his return to form.

by Lesion of Doom on Jan 17, 2012 1:47 PM EST reply actions  

NMC.

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

“If Bryz agrees” takes care of that.

Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.

Matt Read for Calder!

Jeff Skinner, at 6 years old, is the youngest player in the NHL.

Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates

by Chemistry66 on Jan 17, 2012 1:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Wouldn’t he also have to clear re-entry waivers on the way back up? Doubt anyone claims him for his full cap hit, but they might bite on half price for 9 years. If Bryz is smart he knows this and won’t agree out of fear that a team like Winnipeg could claim him.

by hebrew hammer on Jan 17, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, those people don’t even have parks

by agam22 on Jan 17, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I imagine they do have a lot of huskies up there though. Might be a tough decision for Bryz.

by hebrew hammer on Jan 17, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. Never going to happen.

Guys making $9M don’t volunteer to go ride buses in the minors.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Jan 17, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Two scenarios: Bryz posts his second SO tonight as G-sus and his linemates light the lamp. OR… Bryz lets in two softies in the first five minutes. If it’s a miserable outing, he should welcome the chance for a few bus rides to prove he’s willing to do whatever it takes to get his game together. But let’s at least agree to stop blaming the bouncing pucks?

by Lesion of Doom on Jan 17, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I got it!

We need to sign these guys right away!

My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.

by LegionofDoom on Jan 17, 2012 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

Which one is Leighton, again?

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol!

My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.

by LegionofDoom on Jan 17, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Bryz is 4 months into his contract. I see no reason to jump ship now. The guy could just as easily get back on track or on a hot streak. Just look at Jonas Hiller this year.

Jagr shoots, Jagr scores!!!!!!

by Vinny A on Jan 17, 2012 1:57 PM EST reply actions  

Jonas Hiller is why you don’t sign a goalie to a 9 year contract to begin with, not why you stick with a guy for 9 years.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 17, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

The DiPietro Principle? The effectiveness of your goalie decreases in exponential proportion to the length of the contract?

Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!

by MaximumTalbot on Jan 17, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

More along the lines of goalies being volatile enough year-over-year that they’re not worth making a long-term investment in

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2012 5:10 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

What do we say a long-term is defined as? Ryan Miller (admittedly a damn fine goaltender) has had a high SV% in the last 6 full seasons of .929 and a low of .906 – not much variation there (2.5% if you believe in percent of percent). At the other end of the spectrum, Jose Theodore whose career season high is a .931 and career low is .882 (5.6%, or nearly double the variance of Miller). The most amazing thing about Brodeur is that over 16 seasons (including a LOT of rule changes) his career season high was .927 and his low was .902 (before this season) for a 2.7% variance. That’s pretty damn rock solid. One expects a goalie to post numbers in any given season similar to an average of their three previous seasons.

By that measure, Bryz previously had a season high of .921 (twice in fact), and a season low of .906, for a variability of 1.6%. That’s unsustainable really in comparison to other goalies, where the variance is around 2-3% annually. In other words, he’s due for a clunker, on the order of .893 SV% (currently he’s running a .891, so he’ll improve a bit over the rest of the season).

Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!

by MaximumTalbot on Jan 17, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Ryan Miller (admittedly a damn fine goaltender) has had a high SV% in the last 6 full seasons of .929 and a low of .906 – not much variation there (2.5% if you believe in percent of percent).

Sure, it doesn’t look like a large spread, but that’s a very, very large spread. Miller’s 0.929 season is the 10th best by any goaltender since 1998. His 0.906 is tied for 200th (or tied for 76th worst among goalies facing at least 1,000 ES shots).

League average is around 0.915, with the best goalies getting 0.922 or so and backups getting roughly 0.905.

So while Ryan Miller didn’t have a season where he was below NHL-talent, his play ranges from NHL elite to Tommy Salo/Steve Shields/Steve Mason/Alex Auld/Stephane Fiset/Jason LaBarbara.

Even you would admit that the difference between Tim Thomas and Alex Auld is a large variance, even if the strict percentages are small.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 17, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The point still stands – if that is a typical spread for an NHL goalie, then Bryz has been maintaining an unsustainably continuous level of save percentage. He would need either a really good season (above .921 … not likely) or a really bad season (below 0.906, pretty likely) to match the typical variability.

Yes, the difference between Thomas and Auld is notable – over their careers, or even in a given expected season. But look at the single-season variation; Auld’s best season was a .919, and Thomas’ worst was a .905. Thomas varies up to 3.6% over his career, and Auld 3.4%. The ceiling numbers are different, but the variability is the same (almost). If we assume Bryz posted career highs of .921, then he is due for a .893 season to be in line with the variablity other goalies (regardless of the top-end ability) have demonstrated.

Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!

by MaximumTalbot on Jan 18, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Ah, I must have missed your point. We agree there.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 18, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

If you allow 30 shots per game (like the 10-11 Flyers), a 2.5% variance in save percentage accounts for 61.5 goals.

Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."

by Snevik on Jan 17, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Solution

We need to call into WIP more and argue against the idiots. It may be our only hope.

Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Jan 17, 2012 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

It’s a losing battle. I gave up on WIP a long time ago. THe amount of irrational hatred towards Philly teams on that station is mind boggling.

Jagr shoots, Jagr scores!!!!!!

by Vinny A on Jan 17, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Never argue with an idiot, they’ll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Prepare your sleep apparatus.
On the twitterverse

by jello44 on Jan 17, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

My favorite alternate of that saying is: “Never wrestle with a pig. You both end up getting dirty, and the pig likes it.”

"That was a lot of fun. We don't go to jail, we beat up their chicken forwards, we score ten goals, and we win. And now the Moose drinks beer." -Andre "Moose" Dupont

by LVHokejs on Jan 17, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Both sayings are excellent. I approve.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Jan 17, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

You are assuming the call screener would want you to get through and use logic. That might lower ratings.

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Why bother?

They RARELY discuss hockey. If you woke up from a long coma and the first thing you did was turn on WIP, regardless of the time of year, you’d swear the Eagles were still playing.

If it wasn’t for Morganti, the only ice they’d recognize would be the cubes in their soda.

A Flyers fan for so long I remember when a Flyers Goalie (Bruce Gamble) had a heart attack DURING a game...and continued playing!

"...bouncing puck in the slot...LOOSE IN FRONT...McDuffy...bouncing PUCK...SCOOOOOOOORE!!!!" - Gene Hart

by DrummerFC on Jan 17, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I generally consider NOT calling to be the most concise and precise argument I can make.

Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!

by MaximumTalbot on Jan 17, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly when

Did bob get 5 games in a row to grab the starting spot and failed?

Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!

DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.

by MJDII on Jan 17, 2012 2:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

He played three in a row from 11/23 to 11/26:

  • 11/23 he came in down 3-0 and saved 23/23 to win 4-3
  • 11/25 he started and saved 23/24 to win 3-1
  • 11/26 he started and saved 30/32 to lose 2-0 — FAILURE YOU DON’T GET FIVE IN A ROW IF YOU CAN’T EVEN WIN THREE.

by Eric T. on Jan 17, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

A .938 save pct doesn’t buy you what it used to, eh?

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Jan 17, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

The opinion-forming is way too heavily based on decisions. A big part of why the Flyers goaltending was seen as a failure in the playoffs last year was two 1-0 losses.

If Bobrovsky had won that first game 2-1 instead of losing 1-0, he wouldn’t have been demoted to third string in the first period of the second game. If Boucher had won the fourth game 2-1 — giving him three straight wins to go with his .954 save percentage — we never would’ve seen Michael Leighton.

by Eric T. on Jan 17, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Going back into the memory vaults on this one…didn’t Boucher start Game 1 and then look shaky? Which led to Bob in Game 2 (the first 1-0 loss you reference above)?

Was the one goal he allowed a bad goal? My recollection from watching the game was that Bob looked scrambley all night and it sticks in my head that he got some help from the posts? Correct me if I’m wrong.

I agree with you on the general principle that W’s are a borderline useless stat for evaluating a goalie.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Jan 17, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Bob started Game 1 and was just as good as Ryan Miller, despite the 1-0 loss.

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Broad Street Hockey - Covering the Philadelphia Flyers. Have you accepted Ilya Bryzgalov as your savior?

by Travis Hughes on Jan 17, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This^

"Who's more crazy, me? Or defensemen? Who's more weird?"----- Ilya Bryzgalov

"Grow some balls and just do it" ---- Claude Giroux

Semper Fi...

by lcd24 on Jan 17, 2012 2:40 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Hrm. It’s bizarre that they would then bench him for Game 2.

Didn’t he end up the third-string G after a couple of games?

Weird.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Jan 17, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it was ridiculous.

Game 1, he was awesome in a 1-0 loss. (I checked on the goalpost thing — the only recorded post was against the empty net.)

Game 2, he let in three goals in the first period — and there was little he could have done about them (watch them and read my analysis here). He got pulled…and benched…and demoted to third string.

Boucher played very well in games 2-4, then let in three goals in the first period of game 5 and got pulled. Michael Leighton came in, because Bob had been demoted to #3. And Leighton was given the start for game 6, which was hideous.

So I maintain that had the Flyers not lost game 1 by a 1-0 score, Bob would’ve been seen more favorably, and that had they not lost game 4 by a 1-0 score, Boucher would’ve been seen more favorably, and either of those would have been sufficient to minimize the ridiculousness that ensued once Leighton got on the ice.

by Eric T. on Jan 17, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I distinctly recall being a bit agog at the G carousel at the time, but your links bring it all back.

Leighton…yuck.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Jan 17, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Lavy gave a valiant effort to keep the Sabres in the series by rolling out progressively more terrible goaltenders.

As long as 70 minutes of ice time is being doled out to AHLers and Matt Ellis, the Sabres are basically doomed

by Ubiquitous on Jan 17, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Lavy mishandled the goalies. I like the idea of Leighton on the bench as the back-up but BOB should have started game 3.

Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011

by chrislanci on Jan 17, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

looooooooooooooooooooool

Bobrovsky should just put a picture of Rodney Dangerfield on his helmet because he gets no respect.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by Chase W on Jan 17, 2012 2:04 PM EST reply actions  

O-oh, I’m starting to see those knees-a-jerking. Bryz posted some nice numbers last year: 68 games, with a save % .921, 2.48 GA and 7 shutouts facing 2125 shots. Hell even the Great One thought he was Vezina material. Slump? Yes indeed. Bad bounces? Yes, he’s had more than a few. He’s also had a shifting defensive corp, losing its cornerstone piece with Pronger. And he’s in now Philly, whose hyper-neurotic fan base/media/blogosphere have a tendency toward panic, cynicism, and bomb throwing. I’m confident he can turn things around. We are pretty lucky to have 2 great goaltenders going into the playoffs (we hope).

"All the experts come out, all the pundits come out with their opinions...the truth of the matter is if they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it" - George McPhee, General Manager, Washington Capitals.

by Nico97 on Jan 17, 2012 2:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

This is what people meant when they told Bryz, “You’re going to hell; they hate the goalies.”

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Jan 17, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Discussed this briefly with F&B over at Japers. He said, and I agree, that Bryz very likely returns to form; that this is just a blip on the radar.

Once Bryz strings together 10 games with a .946 save pct, this will all go away.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Jan 17, 2012 2:13 PM EST reply actions  

If he doesn’t get “run out of town” before then. Two most popular sports positions in Philadelphia: the backup QB and the backup goaltender.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I hear you. Similar dynamic in DC, at least with regard to quarterbacks.

There’s simply no way to get Bryz out of town, though. He’ll get his chances to play his way out of his current struggles and he’s obviously got the talent to perform well.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Jan 17, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I know. I just meant it figuratively, whereupon he’ll be showered with boos and nothing but negative spin on the shitty sports radio here.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re both right.

It’s almost inevitable that Bryzgalov will get 100 starts over this year and next, and it’s very likely that the protracted look will show him to be a .915ish goaltender.

But it’s also true that people’s minds have been made up and it will take either a very protracted run of strong play or a good playoff run for the fans to forgive him, and in the meantime there’ll be a lot of frustratingly short-sighted opinions expressed.

by Eric T. on Jan 17, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Anything short of a Tim Thomas Conn Smythe run will be seen as a failure because that’s essentially what has been promised to the fans here and the newspapers can make more money or stay busy writing about Bryz’s shortcomings.

by hebrew hammer on Jan 17, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

So basically he’s doomed no matter what.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Tim Thomas

AAARRRGGGGHHH!!! Don’t even bring up that name. Were we actually thisclose to acquiring him via trade but Homer wouldn’t do it, or did I dream that?

A Flyers fan for so long I remember when a Flyers Goalie (Bruce Gamble) had a heart attack DURING a game...and continued playing!

"...bouncing puck in the slot...LOOSE IN FRONT...McDuffy...bouncing PUCK...SCOOOOOOOORE!!!!" - Gene Hart

by DrummerFC on Jan 17, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Don’t feel too bad, he’d probably only put up a .930 on the Flyers… But he’d still get pulled for Michael Leighton when he let in three goals in a period.

As long as 70 minutes of ice time is being doled out to AHLers and Matt Ellis, the Sabres are basically doomed

by Ubiquitous on Jan 17, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

It didn’t used to be that way, especially not from 1986-89.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Jan 17, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Philadelphia Flyers manufacturing goalie controversies since 1987…. Man I hate the WIP mentality of some Philly fans, I guess the Michael Jack quote of “the thrill of victory and the agony of reading it the next morning” can translate to to radio.

"Who's more crazy, me? Or defensemen? Who's more weird?"----- Ilya Bryzgalov

"Grow some balls and just do it" ---- Claude Giroux

Semper Fi...

by lcd24 on Jan 17, 2012 2:17 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

Philadelphia Flyers manufacturing goalie controversies since 1987

This is an outstanding reply to “haven’t had a real goalie since…”

by Eric T. on Jan 17, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that slogan was originally meant to be verbally ironic, but I fear too many people fail to see the dark humor in it.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I know I was just pointing out the stupidity of this whole knee jerk reaction. Plus I was not sure how to use sarcasm font on the iPhone app. Only the flyers could sign what is considered a #1 goalie only to have this lunacy in the media happen.

"Who's more crazy, me? Or defensemen? Who's more weird?"----- Ilya Bryzgalov

"Grow some balls and just do it" ---- Claude Giroux

Semper Fi...

by lcd24 on Jan 17, 2012 2:28 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Oh and by media I do not mean BSH it’s the only place sane Flyers fans come and comment.

"Who's more crazy, me? Or defensemen? Who's more weird?"----- Ilya Bryzgalov

"Grow some balls and just do it" ---- Claude Giroux

Semper Fi...

by lcd24 on Jan 17, 2012 2:32 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Haha, no, I understood you were being sarcastic. I just think it’s a great retort.

“The Flyers haven’t had a good goalie since 1987.”

“No, they’ve had plenty of good goalies; what you mean is that Philadelphia has been manufacturing goalie controversy since 1987.”

by Eric T. on Jan 17, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

With the Eagles not making the playoffs the annual goalie controversy gets pushed up into January. I predict in March or April after a little slump we will have the locker room rift stories or maybe the coach’s message isn’t getting through story. I can’t decide which one it is going to be quite yet the MSM (main stream media) is being slightly more unpredictable. Given the usual locker room rift targets Richards and Carter have been traded I tend to think the coach message isn’t getting through will be next.

Talbot 5 Nodl 0 11/7/2011

by chrislanci on Jan 17, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I predict in March or April after a little slump we will have the locker room rift stories or maybe the coach’s message isn’t getting through story.

The locker room lacks leadership in Pronger’s absence. Giroux needs to step up and claim this team as his own. Duh.

by Eric T. on Jan 17, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I wondered about this too. These ARE professionals, but there might be an interior leadership vacuum right now.

"Ocean: A body of water covering 2/3 of a world MADE for man....who has no gills."

by dinkster on Jan 17, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

FTFY
Philadelphia Flyers manufacturing goalie controversies since 1987 1967

Parent vs. Favell. Just saying.
/not sarcastic mode, either

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

The fans were PISSED in the summer of 1973 when Allen traded Favell to the Leafs to get Parent back. People paid for those message-bearing planes at the Jersey Shore to carry banners criticizing Allen.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Jan 17, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup. People forget how much Favell was loved (kinda like Bob, frankly).

Had you said in 1970 “the Flyers will win the Stanley in four years with one of the current goalies” at least 40% (maybe more!) would have said Favell.

I think it was HH who posted that backup qb and backup goalie is the best position in Philadelphia sports to have
/Jack Concannon, anyone?

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

People forget how much Favell was loved (kinda like Bob, frankly).

Actually Favvy was more like Boosh than Bob. In consecutive games Boosh could be the best goalie in the league and the worst. Similarly, Favell would make some of the most amazing saves you’d ever seen, yet let some floaters zip by him like he was sound asleep.

In the last game of the 1971 season, the Flyers needed only a tie in the last game of the season to make the playoffs against the Sabres. With :04 left in the 3rd period of a 3-3 game, Gerry Meehan lifted a shot from the red line and it flummoxed Favell. Score. Game, set, match, season…and no playoffs. Clarkie broke his stick over the crossbar in fuming anger.

A Flyers fan for so long I remember when a Flyers Goalie (Bruce Gamble) had a heart attack DURING a game...and continued playing!

"...bouncing puck in the slot...LOOSE IN FRONT...McDuffy...bouncing PUCK...SCOOOOOOOORE!!!!" - Gene Hart

by DrummerFC on Jan 17, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

This, in its entirety (I agree on the Boosh analogy, spot on). I think I actually remember listening to that game on the radio.

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks…

LOL, I remember watching that game on a little B&W TV at my cousin’s house in South Philly. And when the Sabres scored that goal we all looked at each other like WTF??

A Flyers fan for so long I remember when a Flyers Goalie (Bruce Gamble) had a heart attack DURING a game...and continued playing!

"...bouncing puck in the slot...LOOSE IN FRONT...McDuffy...bouncing PUCK...SCOOOOOOOORE!!!!" - Gene Hart

by DrummerFC on Jan 18, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions  

But yer right, people did like Favell a lot.

A Flyers fan for so long I remember when a Flyers Goalie (Bruce Gamble) had a heart attack DURING a game...and continued playing!

"...bouncing puck in the slot...LOOSE IN FRONT...McDuffy...bouncing PUCK...SCOOOOOOOORE!!!!" - Gene Hart

by DrummerFC on Jan 17, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Fire everyone!

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Jan 17, 2012 3:00 PM EST reply actions  

Bryz is the better of the two goaltenders, overall. But, Bob just may be the better goaltender for this Flyers team that gives up some horrible giveaways in front of their own net…. and who give up a lot of deflections/ bounces in front.

Bryz is used to a defense that gives him a look at the shot. Bob is more athletic jumping side to side, and more suited to a team like we have….who are constantly jumping out of defensive coverage to push.

It’s all about the style of the team in front of them. Hate to say it, but the Phoenix team Bryz played for had a much better system. Of course, it didn’t help them when it came to playing against a superstar team like Detroit last year….. But that system is making Mike Smith (.927 SV%) and Jason Labarberra (.907 SV%) look good this season, and that takes a lot.

"Ocean: A body of water covering 2/3 of a world MADE for man....who has no gills."

by dinkster on Jan 17, 2012 3:15 PM EST reply actions  

Bryz is the better of the two goaltenders, overall.

I don’t think we know enough about Bobrovsky yet to make such a definitive claim.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 17, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahhh geeez, Edith – they’re at it again, haaaarrr!

A Flyers fan for so long I remember when a Flyers Goalie (Bruce Gamble) had a heart attack DURING a game...and continued playing!

"...bouncing puck in the slot...LOOSE IN FRONT...McDuffy...bouncing PUCK...SCOOOOOOOORE!!!!" - Gene Hart

by DrummerFC on Jan 17, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Serious question

Would all this talk about a third goaltender be because Snider does not want to admit he was wrong about Bobrovsky? Because if you trust Bobrovsky, you don’t sign Bryzgalov to a 9-year contract, right? Right?

Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Jan 17, 2012 4:01 PM EST reply actions  

I still don't know why we gave Bryz...

a 9 year deal. He’s as mentally tough as a roll of Charmin. Let’s put it this way, if there is an opportunity to amnesty a contract who’s would you rather do, Bryz or Pronger? I say Bryz and that’s without knowing whether Pronger is ever going to play again. We can at least Rathje the Pronger deal if he doesn’t play, and if he does he’s still a good player. Bryz on the other hand is a goal allowing vortex of doom on the salary cap.

by PhanofPhilly on Jan 17, 2012 4:28 PM EST reply actions  

He’s as mentally tough as a roll of Charmin

Aw geez

Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Jan 17, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Bryz on the other hand is a goal allowing vortex of doom on the salary cap.

I liked that one better.

by hebrew hammer on Jan 17, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that one is awesome.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 17, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, even if you like Bryz, and think he should be #1, this is still true.

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Bob.

Seems apropos in a number of ways.

Patron saint of quality footwear.

by fat_daddyo on Jan 17, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Boosh?

Bryz has low self esteem
Awaiting the return of the G-stache

by Philly37 on Jan 17, 2012 4:44 PM EST reply actions  

I've figured it out

Trade Bryz to the universe in exchange for Atlas A and a singularity to be named later.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Jan 17, 2012 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

Don't panic - some things to think about

First, Tocchet knew Bryz before in Phoenix and hasn’t bailed out on him yet. So I’m not about to jump on the “Dump Bryz” bandwagon. He needs to take a page from Bob and work hard (and I’m hearing that he is) – the bounces will come his way.

Second,, I don’t buy the “Bob looking good only because they’re playing poor teams” argument that’s also making the rounds. I think he’s worked very hard at getting better at communication, puck control and gaining confidence. Like Timmo said, this in turn makes the team more confident. Considering that last season this was a sore point with Timmo, this is great to hear.

This speculation seems to be coming from “if there is an amnesty…..” let’s stir the Philly pot mentality.

"I will not risk answering your question" Why we love Bob
And yes, I am a female redhead.

by BHMB on Jan 17, 2012 5:28 PM EST reply actions  

Rick Tocchet, employee of CSNPhilly, subsidiary of Comcast, which is owned by Comcast-Spectacor, which owns the Flyers, hasn’t bailed on Bryzgalov yet?

Yeah, that sounds tin-foil hat-ty, but come on. Rick Tocchet controls what you think about Ilya Bryzgalov?

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 17, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry my reply to your comment is so late but I had dinner and a rehearsal which ran late.

Mr. Tocchet, as I understand it, was previously employed by a hockey organization in Phoenix. I simply give more credence (not necessarily control) to someone who has worked with the individual in question and who has also played the game.

"I will not risk answering your question" Why we love Bob
And yes, I am a female redhead.

by BHMB on Jan 17, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Rick Tocchet is also a compulsive gambler who got fired for being a bad hockey coach. The fact that he played the game and coached the game in and of itself does not make him an expert of goalies. Would you take Sean Avery’s opinion of Kari Lehtonen simply because Avery played the game and worked with him?

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 18, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I know! Let’s ask Keith Jones!

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced

by hintzy64 on Jan 18, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I might accept Sean Avery’s opinion of Kari Lehtonen’s wardrobe.
Rick Tocchet is also a failed cash smuggler/ tax evader. Not that I really needed to point it out, just sayin’.

by mtitanic on Jan 18, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Great photo

/s, more often than not

by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 17, 2012 5:31 PM EST reply actions  

They should have gotten Tim Thomas when the bruins were all task the future. imagine that.

I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.

by Christopher A on Jan 17, 2012 6:00 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

In hindsight, sure. But it doesn’t change the fact that, in the moment where he was available, they absolutely should not have acquired Tim Thomas.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 17, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Completely Agree

Yeah, if the Flyers have Thomas last year they probably win the cup, but you don’t trade a young 40 goal scorer for a goalie in his mid-30’s that just lost his starting job. No one could predict that Thomas would come out and post quite possibly the best year in the history of goaltending last year.

by agam22 on Jan 17, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

And note that Thomas’ career is the very definition of “goalie variance”

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

3.4%, not too shabby really.

Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!

by MaximumTalbot on Jan 18, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

This has got to be a joke. The only way you get a goalie worthy of righting the ship is by trade, even if it’s a short term solution. The only players we have worthy of picking up a goalie of that caliber are not players I would trade. Dear God, please send some brain cells to homer and don’t let this happen. He should have gotten Thomas when he had the chance. I will be physically sick if he trades for another goalie.

by Kanayd on Jan 17, 2012 6:59 PM EST reply actions  

He should have gotten Thomas when he had the chance.

A-F’IN-MEN!

A Flyers fan for so long I remember when a Flyers Goalie (Bruce Gamble) had a heart attack DURING a game...and continued playing!

"...bouncing puck in the slot...LOOSE IN FRONT...McDuffy...bouncing PUCK...SCOOOOOOOORE!!!!" - Gene Hart

by DrummerFC on Jan 18, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

The only way you get a goalie worthy of righting the ship is by trade

Really? Where’d Bobrovsky come from then?

Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!

by MaximumTalbot on Jan 18, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Does anyone else...

Just keep thinking we could’ve had Richards here? Maybe even Carter too with this already ridiculously stacked lineup? It’s all just so disappointing if Bryz doesn’t get his act together quick.

by Will21 on Jan 17, 2012 8:23 PM EST reply actions  

I was all for keeping at least one of them.

being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11

by DLJr on Jan 18, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  


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