Monday Morning Fly By: That Was Quite a Weekend
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers-related news and notes...
- Recaps: [BSH] [SB Nation Philly] [Stanley Cup of Chowder] [CSNPhilly] [Inquirer] [Frequent Flyers] [Flyers Faithful] [The Checking Line]
- The Bruins are not happy about the "blindside hit" Tom Sestito laid on Nathan Horton: [Puck Daddy]
- Wayne Simmonds is a Philly kind of guy: [The Checking Line]
- The Phantoms beat Albany 3-2 Friday: [PostStar] but lost to Bridgeport 2-1 Saturday: [PostStar]
- Niko Hovinen stopped 37 of 39 shots in a 3-2 SO win on Friday: [euroflyers]
- Jakub Kovar stopped 32 of 34 shots in a 3-2 win on Thursday: [euroflyers] and 43 of 45 in a 2-1 overtime loss on Sunday: [euroflyers]
- Johan Backlund stopped 25 of 28 shots in a 4-2 loss on Thursday: [euroflyers]
- Alex Ovechkin is likely to get suspended for this hit on Zbynek Michalek: [Puck Daddy]
- Sidney Crosby went to California to see a neurological spine specialist: [Puck Daddy]
- The Senators are battling for home ice in the playoffs, and it's not a fluke: they're actually good. [Backhand Shelf]
- An in-depth comparison of Daniel Alfredsson and Zdeno Chara: [Down Goes Brown]
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Anyone see this article on Puck Daddy?
First of all, the quoted conversation between the Islanders broadcasters is fucking amazing. You couldn’t write a more hilariously over the top parody of the way the anti-stats crowd tries to ridicule things that they obviously don’t understand. Don’t let the fact that they are being dead serious detract from the comedy.
Secondly, one of the things they are mocking is a so-called "Clutch Performance" stat which is apparently supposed to be analogous to Win Probability Added from Fangraphs. The ridiculous name and the fact that its creator works for ESPN don’t give me much hope, but has anyone looked behind the subscription wall and checked this stat out to see if it’s legit? It would be pretty cool to have WPA for hockey.
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
There is one, called GVT, I cant remember how much a goal is worth, but its the best stat there is right now.
Clutch performance sound alot like the total quarterback rating invented for NFL
by Anders Jensen on Jan 23, 2012 6:58 AM EST up reply actions
GVT is closer to WAR while WPA is something people are currently working on.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 23, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
The comments on that Puck Daddy article. The comments….
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 6:59 AM EST up reply actions
Is Tim Thomas a good goaltender? I’m not sure. He has the benefit of playing the entirety of his games in goal. He isn’t used nearly as often in the neutral or offensive zones.
“When Tavares is on the ice, more shots are aimed at the Islanders’ net than the opposition’s” Um yeah that’s because it’s the isles. For the simple fact that he scores as much as he does when he plays for the islanders should put him ahead of many other players on the list. I’m an islanders fan but lets be honest their goal differential is always negative, that doesn’t mean every player on the roster has no talent.
were my favorites.
I’ll admit that I’m not convinced by the article (of course I can’t read it because I’m not going to pay money to read ESPN write about hockey) particularly because he appears to be using a stat that isn’t in regular usage to draw his conclusions. But still, you’ve got to give him some leeway and try to understand where he’s coming from rather than trashing him and his stats because his conclusions disagree with your pre-formed ones.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 7:05 AM EST up reply actions
CPI wasn’t used in the original 25 under 25 article, it was used only in the follow up defense of omitting Tavares. I wrote my own piece on the CPI article, and it has most of the basics if you’d like to avoid paying ESPN. Also, I don’t believe Neil works for ESPN (I think he technically works for the Washington Post), his role there is similar to the guys at Hockey Prospectus who post some of their stuff at ESPN.
It’s really not that close WPA in that the only events it’s looking at are goals. I know Eric has played with a version, and there was one at AIH as well. Those are stronger attempts to me since they at least account for penalties.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 23, 2012 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the info. Paying ESPN for hockey coverage would just seem wrong on principle.
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
by Phaninsanfran on Jan 23, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
Two things, actually three.
1. Why exactly are the Flyers so terrible in the S.O? I can’t wrap my head around it. It’s been 7 years, players aren’t the same and yet they still blow. It’s amazingly frustrating.
2. Not that All Star games mean squat in the grand scheme but Hartnell deserves this. It better happen.
3. I am about ready for the city of Boston to break apart from the rest of the Union and float away somewhere in the Atlantic. F that whole city. (It’s actually one of my favorite cities in the world but still.)
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
1. The only constant is Ed Snider.
2. I hope they offer it to Hartnell and he rejects it.
3. I’m bringing myself to support the Patriots so perhaps the city of Boston can take a couple of weeks before doing that (unless it floating away means the Ravens make the Superbowl).
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 7:18 AM EST up reply actions
Regarding Number 3…I just can’t do it. I don’t particular dislike any of the players or the coach, Brady has every reason in the world to be a smug douche and he really isn’t. Basically I am just jealous.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I get where you’re coming from, and certainly have no love for the Patriots, but considering the following:
- the Giants were a 9-7 team that barely deserved to be in the playoffs, and lost to many mediocre-to-crap teams over the season, and when they didn’t lose they often struggled against a mediocre-to-crap team until a fourth quarter mishap by the opposition handed them the win.
- the Giants have had a ridiculous amount of luck go their way. At least the Patriots are good and deserve a Superbowl win, the Giants have been a mediocre team and I could not bear to see the media convert them into instant legends.
- the Giants officially ended the Eagles hopes this season by beating the Jets. That hurts.
- the Eagles could’ve been in the playoffs instead of the Giants if Vick hadn’t hurt himself in the second half of their 1st game promptly leading to a blown lead (yet another example of the random luck these Giants have had).
- Eli Manning is not in the same category as Brady. And yet the media will pretend he’s in the same league as Brady and better than his brother if he pulls this off.
- I know way more Giants fans than Patriots fans. And they’ve all been very obnoxious about this playoff run.
Therefore I will have no sympathy if Brady and the Patriots stomp all over them and hand them a 45-3 walloping.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 7:34 AM EST up reply actions
You have me up until the Giants ended the Eagles playoff chances. To make the case that the Giants barely deserved to be in the playoffs while at the same time saying the Eagles could have been in if not for this seems wrong to me. The Eagles lost their shot at the playoffs when they lost at home to the Niners, John Skelton lead Cardinals and the Seattle friggin Seahawks.
Say what you want about the Giants being mediocre and benefiting from a ton of luck, and they have, but they also won two road games in the playoffs, where their opponents were a combined 15-1 at home. The Giants may have been mediocore, they aren’t anymore. And Eli Manning may indeed have a stupid face, but he wins.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Oh I think you might have gotten me wrong on the Eagles bit. I’m not one of those fans who thinks the Eagles would have made the Superbowl if we sneaked into the playoffs. The team struggled during the regular season, disappointed in the tight games, collapsed against opposition with not nearly as much talent, and didn’t really deserve anything more than what they got – an early offseason. But the fact that the Giants were the ones to knock the Eagles out of contention just hurts as a fan, because that day sucked. The fact that I was pissed at the Giants then makes me even more pissed to see how well they’ve used that playoff position that we could have snatched from them by not collapsing in the fourth quarter against them. I hope that makes sense. It’s not that the Eagles should be in the Superbowl, it’s that being an Eagles fan I can’t stand to see the Giants there for these reasons.
And I’d say their game against the Packers was a terrible football game where both teams put in a very mediocre performance. The Packers had something like 8 drops including 1 (or maybe more?) in the endzone. And yesterday’s game was no demonstration of ELIte football either. Let’s face it, Kyle Williams will go down in 49ers history as the man who muffed a shot at the Superbowl. The one thing I will admit though is that Eli is a good quarterback. He’s not Brady; but he’s a very good player who has had a very successful season and won his team crucial games. But football is still a team sport, and the Pats are the better team and deserve to win the Superbowl.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 7:50 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t disagree at all regarding the Giants last two games. They have both been rather ugly but at the end of the day winning is winning and for some reason the Giants seem to be able to put it together at the right times. Having a solid defense doesn’t hurt. If the Patriots curb stomped them 45-3 like you said I wouldn’t have a problem with it in the least. Sadly I will probably be rooting for the Patriots, but I am still sick of Boston and it’s sports teams.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
1) FLYERS SUCK!!!
2) Scott Hartnell Sucks!
3) Boston Sucks, but their beter than the Flyers!!!
/JackCampbell’d
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I’m from Boston and all I can say is that if the Pats win the Super Bowl…. the fans will be even more suffocating, which right now, I don’t know is possible.
www.southpawcurve.blogspot.com - check out my baseball blog!!
Yup, go Giants…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
But after the Giants beat the Pats in 08, I just can’t root for the Giants… so it’s a no win situation for me
www.southpawcurve.blogspot.com - check out my baseball blog!!
I don’t really follow the NFL that much, but of the four possible combinations for the Super Bowl, I find this one the least interesting. I just don’t care. I’m in it for the food, booze, and commercials. I wouldn’t mind if Boston fans got knocked down a peg, but I don’t really care all that much.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yeah… I don’t follow the NFL as much as baseball and hockey… I just hate New York :) And I would like Boston fans to get knocked down a little bit. Maybe it’s just how I view my fandom and I try not to be obnoxious about it or I just wish that a West Coast team was in the Super Bowl for a change.
www.southpawcurve.blogspot.com - check out my baseball blog!!
Also, last Super Bowl party I went to, they had two TVs. The guys were standing around the small one watching the game, the girls were on the nice couch watching the commercials on the big one. I’m no dummy, I was with the girls. Hell yeah.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Hartnell’s on pace for 44 goals in the season!
He also has the most powerplay goals in the entire league.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 7:25 AM EST reply actions
You know, we could trade him in the offseason for a 1st round pick. Then send both our 1st rounders and Gus to another team for a higher first round pick, and then draft a defender high in the 1st round.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 7:40 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t understand your logic. Why can’t we trade Hartnell for the high pick?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
A team in the top 10 draft picks likely doesn’t want Hartnell as he’s getting towards the latter end of his career.
A team in the 20+ picks might want him as a solid additional piece.
Then once we have two first round draft picks, there are teams out there like Edmonton who have been getting high draft picks for years and are now looking to build depth around their young stars. For them, getting 3 young players may be very tempting compared to getting another young star who will be good but will mean that they will take even longer to complete the rebuild.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
I’m talking about trading him to a contender (20+ draft pick) so he might accept that.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
are the bruins their announcers and their fans on drugs?
Every 1 of those “high” hits were shoulder to shoulder good body checks..nowhere was the head made contact with…sounds like babies bitching cause for once they had their own game turned against them and barely won on a betteman coin flip…fuck em
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 23, 2012 7:54 AM EST via mobile reply actions
With shit tons of first period ref help
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 23, 2012 7:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Only Thing......
……I can take from that Boston game is the Flyers need a big time D-Man.
The offense missing JVR, Jagr and Briere seems to be putting up goals (Thanks Scotty), but this D looks lost in the woods along with Bryz.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
Oh, and the other thing I took from that game is Boston is without a doubt the dirtiest whiniest team in the NHL.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Jan 23, 2012 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
this a million times over...plz show me where these head shots happened
Cause I can’t find them
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 23, 2012 8:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think it is pure comic that Bruins fans whine when there players get a dose of there own medicin (they love Marchand for play on the edge, but hate Hartnell)
by Anders Jensen on Jan 23, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
the Flyers need a big time D-Man.
Timonen isn’t good enough any more? Sixth among defensemen in the league in scoring, CorsiRel of 9.1 (22nd in the league), CorsiRelQoC of 1.27 (good for 20th in league), and playing over 21 minutes a night.
Carle? 20th among defensemen in scoring. 3.8 CorsiRel. Playing over 22 minutes a game.
Coburn gets a almost 22 minutes per game. 2.3 CorsiRel and 12 points in 46 games.
Who do you possibly want that is better than the Flyers on defense??? Sure, Pronger is out – but even without him the team has one of the deepest and best defenses in the league. They’re allowing the 10th fewest shots against per game … yet the goals-against per game is 23rd at almost three. That points to one person and one person only … Ilya Bryzgalov.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
“But something something shot quality!”
(DRINK!)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Someone with more stats and more time can figure out the shot quality.
Frankly, more refined people don’t do ‘shots’ anyway; sipping drinks are the civilized way to drink.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
The stat folks have been trying to figure out shot quality for a while and can’t. Which is why it’s a drinking game, because the stat haters always use it as an argument.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Kimmo is good enough, but he is not exactly a young man anymore. So let’s say he goes down with a big injury or Carle or Coburn? What do you do now?
You have to admit the depth at D is not exactly full of talent.
Bryz is not the goalie the front office thought he was, so now you have to rely on your D a little more, especially if you cannot trust the man between the pipes.
I say another talented D-man could not hurt the Flyers chances, even if you have to give up a forward to get one. Though I am not sure who would fit that bill at this time.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Jan 23, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Kimmo is good enough, but he is not exactly a young man anymore.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
by hintzy64 on Jan 23, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d for ToP reference. This and sipping your booze means that you’re getting older. And yet I can’t get the “Beamer Boy” moniker out of my head when I see your posts.
Yeah, but I drive a carefully restored, vintage BMW, not a tricked out 3-series. Big difference.
And I love ToP thanks to our pep band repertoire in college. Lots of that, Stevie Wonder, and Earth Wind & Fire. The brass parts were phenomenal. I was in heaven.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Ditto that, great stuff they put out.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Jan 23, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
That’s like saying the engine in your car is broken, so to go faster you’re buying new tires.
If you admit the goalie is the issue, why would you gut your team (which really has NO depth at forward beyond the current NHL roster, which is beset by injuries anyway) to possibly improve your defense???
If you trade a forward, you need to GET a forward. If you decide to let Carle walk, then maybe you could entertain getting a defenseman. But if the issue is your goaltending … talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
So your suggestion is to get rid of Bryz? Good luck with that, the FO will never admit to making that mistake.
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Jan 23, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
That may be true. But that doesn’t mean that they should blow up the rest of the team AGAIN because they got the goalie they wanted.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
If you trade a forward, you need to GET a forward. If you decide to let Carle walk, then maybe you could entertain getting a defenseman.
And yet people keep talking about trading forwards for L. Schenn, Suter, Gleason, etc…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
“People” have not considered the implications of their proposed actions. Letting a forward go leaves a gap in that forward slot that needs to be filled. Letting a defenseman go leaves that gap. Either one would mean the need for cap management next season, let alone this one.
It’d be great if the Flyers could just attend the All-Star game and hand out Orange and Black jerseys … but that’s exactly why the league created the salary cap system.
That said, I don’t necessarily think my statement that to move a forward you need to get a forward is absolute. I mean, we could trade Girlyname tomorrow and it wouldn’t have any negative effect on the team depth at all :)
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but you have to give up something of value to get something of value. Nobody is going to take Lilja in a trade for Schenn/Suter/Gleason. And if we give up a good defensemen, then we’re not gaining depth, so there’s no point. So sacrificing forward depth to add defensive depth is what people are going for. Not saying I agree with doing it, but I think that’s why they’re proposing it.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I think you’re attributing logic and sense in that proposal where there is little. My admitted knee-jerk reaction was to trade a forward to make a defenseman happen … but upon considering it, it just doesn’t make sense either short-term or long-term.
And yeah – I know we’d get nothing for Shelley, Betts, Leighton, Walker, etc … other than cap room and roster space, which is actually kinda important moving forward. So I’d happily deal any of those players for a seventh-round pick.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not a Bryzgalov hater by any stretch, but once we went to the SO, I had a strong feeling it was over. Thankfully, no SO’s in the playoffs. Even though Bob was ice cold sitting on the bench, it would have been pretty interesting to put Bob in just for the SO. Has a team ever done that?
"That was a lot of fun. We don't go to jail, we beat up their chicken forwards, we score ten goals, and we win. And now the Moose drinks beer." -Andre "Moose" Dupont
Didn’t Leighton do that last year, took himself out because of his back? A preseason game? Can’t recall.
Bryz: “Coach, I am lost in woods on shootout, put Bob in.”
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I remember this too, so I looked up the details. It happened in a pre-season game last season, and it was Boosh who went in cold, and we won. I found the game sheet, where you can see Boosh got the win without any TOI. But since the backup goalies wouldn’t even get a minute to warm up if you decide to switch goalies in that moment, it can be an injury risk to attempt it without a valid reason to do so.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 23, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
Bruins are really whining about the hit on Horton? At what point in the sport of hockey did a guy become off limits 1 second or less after a shot or pass? I’m pretty sure it is widely understood that you can hit a guy after a pass or shot within 3 seconds or 3 strides.
After the way Boston has conducted themselves on the ice this year it’s pretty petty. They just could not believe someone finally pushed back. Sestito had a solid physical game yesterday and he is a big boy.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
3 seconds would be an eternity. From watching the hit to Horton, it was late. Not high/to the head or anything of the like cuz like you said, Sestito is a big boy.
"Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"
by PraiseMartyMoose on Jan 23, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
The phrase “don’t admire your shot or pass” is taught in mites. There is a good reason.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Hartnell
I know it’s easy to make a statement today, but really how bad is his contract. 60 points two seasons ago, 2 obvious lesser seasons marred by marital problems with 44 and 47 points. The guy works hard, goes to the dirty areas on the ice and accents the better players on this team. I think JVR at 4 million is going to be a way bigger frustration to this team then Hartnell has. But today is an easy day to toot his horn.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Haha, really? You’re going to look at a guy who had 41, 34, 33, 48, 39, 43, 60, 44, and 49 points the last nine years and call out the 44 and 49 point seasons as anomalies related to his marital problems?
Yeah, he’s having a great year this year, but let’s be honest here. His huge goal-scoring number is driven by 19.8% shooting, when a) his career average is 11.4%, b) his previous career best was 14.7%, and c) Sidney Crosby’s career rate is 15.2%. This is a career year; enjoy the hell out of it, but don’t expect it to be repeated when you think about his contract value.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
by Eric T. on Jan 23, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am not thinking about what happened in Nashville, as that franchise was a joke until recently. So with this team and the obvious better personnel provided to him are the 44 and 49 points below average or are the 60 point year and this year above average? Is this a career year or was the 60 point year a career year? This is only interesting argument because he has had past success. And trust me I am just stirring conversation more then anything because I really like Hartsy and thought all along he should have been wearing and A.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
This is, in fact, the correct reply. Unfortunately, my natural inclination takes me more in this direction:
He was consistently in the 6th-7th range among Nashville forwards in both TOI and points. Is it really an argument in his favor that the team for which he couldn’t hold a second line spot was a joke of a franchise?
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Well I would believe a ton of guys in their early NHL careers would be in the 6th-7th range among forwards in both TOI and points. But I see your point on a struggling team if he was going to be a 60 point per year player maybe he should have gotten top six forward playing time and points from the get go. I guess my point is yes his contract isn’t the best for our cap but even if he is overpaid by a million it’s not the worst money put out by this franchise. He has more then contributed to the teams success since arriving. Like I said I like the guy.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Go Bob yourself!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Normally in the morning I love to watch NHL Tonight but the Monday morning crew is like a Tuesday afternoon stripper line-up. The host is a blonde with a grating voice who doesn’t seem to know dick about hockey and the analyst is an idiot with an itchy trigger finger for suspensions. During the highlights packages he called for 3 of them at least.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
The blonde I think is incredibly hot so I overlook her ignorance. However at 7 this morning I was screaming obscenities at the tv because the guy called for a suspension on every hit. The sestito hit on horton was late but you don’t hear anything about Marchand running bryzgalov
by profoundnotions on Jan 23, 2012 8:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Frankly they have nothing to do with one another, but, Mez helped him, and Bryz was lucky to avoid a match penalty.
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
That’s the first thing I thought yesterday. It is instant boot if a goaltender punches someone with a blocker correct?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Only if it’s deemed to be a deliberate intent to inure, so there is major wiggle room in the wording of the rule.
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
deliberate intent to inure
That sounds like it should be a bench minor for a team employing the trap.
by mtitanic on Jan 23, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no I know they didn’t I’m just trying to use two instances where each team was pissed about what happened
by profoundnotions on Jan 23, 2012 11:47 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah, unfortunately in this case, you are furthering their point.
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
oh by highlights package you meant just our game…I was saying the program as a whole. he was just as bad for the other games too
by profoundnotions on Jan 23, 2012 4:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Goalies and concussions
Yahoo’s Cotsonika had a very interesting article on goalies and the unique problems they face by concussions.
"I will not risk answering your question" Why we love Bob
And yes, I am a female redhead.
Sorry, my attempt to post a link to the article failed.
Typing this http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=nc-3periods-maple-leafs-reimer-sabres-miller-011912 might work.
"I will not risk answering your question" Why we love Bob
And yes, I am a female redhead.
....
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 23, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Christ she on the rag?!
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
by reaper1221 on Jan 23, 2012 11:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Interesting or meaningless?
I saw this today while skimming behindthenet
Rangers goal ratio: 0.570
Rangers shot ratio: 0.481
Is there anything to this? Team being out-shot but managing to outscore their opponents by a decent amount. I’m guessing the goal ratio is simply inflated thanks to their high save percentage?
Proud provider of the PECO Power Play.
Couple things at play:
1) Those are full game ratios. The Rangers spent a lot of time leading games, so obviously there’s a lot of score effects going on with their total shots.
2) Using just the close game data, they were really bad early. Epically bad. 43% of shots bad. Since then they’ve improved by leaps and bounds, and been running at 52-54% for a while. (BOS/PIT games not withstanding)
3) There’s a very large gap in their close game PDO and their full game PDO. Working on drafting an explanation for that.
4) Their close game PDO is trending down, almost at the same rate their close game Fenwick is trending up. Looking at a 10 game rolling average, they’ve dipped below 100 close PDO twice recently (incl. currently). Thus the, 6 pts in 6 game stretch they’re in now.
They’re not a 116 point team (their 1st half pace) and anyone who tells you they were is delusional. Rob V has them pegged for 104. That’s probably close. I think it ends up close to 106-108, but that’s nitpicking. Whether that’s enough to hold off the Flyers (or Penguins for that matter) is anyone’s guess.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
"Oh, that sensible and sober* Rangers fan guy who is cool, actually" - Dominik, Lighthouse Hockey
*Statement has not been verified nor regressed
by George E. Ays on Jan 23, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
I am still trying to get all my advanced stats and how they relate to each other straightened out, so I’m appreciative of any articles that can help me learn anything more (thanks for that link).
I suppose I didn’t take into account some of these things which helps explain it a little better. Thanks for taking the time to give me some detail!
Proud provider of the PECO Power Play.
by coheedandtbs on Jan 23, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry if this is a simple question, but the sum of those is PDO, right? And because it’s over 100 indicates they might regress?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
PDO is Save% + Shooting%. Yes, PDO tends towards 100.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
"Oh, that sensible and sober* Rangers fan guy who is cool, actually" - Dominik, Lighthouse Hockey
*Statement has not been verified nor regressed
by George E. Ays on Jan 23, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Awesomesauce

Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
if there was ever a time to trade Hartnell…
"Start playing with some jam in here"
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jan 23, 2012 10:05 AM EST reply actions
Was thinking the same myself but I don’t know if this team can afford to lose any more offense right now with all the injuries.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I always have trouble with the “sell high” part. I want to keep him because he’s doing so well. I feel like we need his scoring right now.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
By trading Hartnell, you do the following:
Get a very high pick, mid to low level 1st perhaps?
Enable Matt Carle to be signed long-term
Enable Voracek to be signed to a bigger deal
Give another LWer more minutes on a prominent line, perhaps through free-agency?
What was Tyler Kennedy signed for again?
"Start playing with some jam in here"
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jan 23, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Moving Hartnell’s salary will help resign Carle and Voracek but it certainly won’t make up the difference. That is of course assuming Hartnell allows for a trade, which he doesn’t have to.
I am not sure they would get a mid to low level 1st for him but they might.
Kennedy makes 2 mil a year for 2 years.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
the 1st rounder with those other details I think does make up the difference. Matt Read is doing well this year, whose to say Homer doesn’t hit another triple again?
"Start playing with some jam in here"
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jan 23, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Make up the difference in what sense? I was talking strictly monetarily. Hartnell makes 4.2 a year. Voracek 2.25 and Carle 3.43. Assuming they each get a bit of a bump it’s going to be more than Hartnell makes.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
you’d split Hartnell contract up and spend it on those players. Voracek would get a 1.25 million increase while Carle would get 1.57 perhaps?
"Start playing with some jam in here"
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jan 23, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Right but using your numbers Voracek’s 3.50 and Carles’ 5 is almost double what Hartnell makes now. So that extra 4 mil is going to have to come from somewhere.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I’m taking their current cap hit and adding to it
"Start playing with some jam in here"
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jan 23, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Which doesn’t make up the difference, it just decreases it.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
This year, Hartnell + Carle + Voracek is just over 10M. Next year, he’s giving Carle 5M, Voracek 3.5M, and using the remaining 1.5M on Hartnell’s replacement.
Obviously the 1.5M player won’t be as good as Hartnell. But the team may have to shed talent somewhere to keep everything together, and I think CCB is suggesting that Hartnell’s contract, age, and presumed value on the trade market make him a good option.
I’m not so sure he nets a first rounder though. Versteeg was in the middle of his third straight 20-goal season at 3M pay, with RFA rights at the end of the deal, on the upslope of his career. Hartnell is at 4.2M, is past his prime, has no RFA rights, and his NTC limits the possible trade partners, so they’d have to find a team that really focused on the current season when evaluating him.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Mike Testwuide!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 23, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
But he’s a 40 goal scorer!
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jan 23, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
I know it would open up a lot of possibilities because of Hartnell’s contract, but it’s just hard because I like him and he’s doing well. That’s why I don’t run a team. I’d be horrible with business decisions.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Start feeling bad for anyone trying to win the Eastern Conference
Puck Daddy is right on the mark. Can’t imagine how difficult it is going to be for any team out of Philly, NYR, BOS, Pitt, to beat each other in a play off series only to have to do it again.
The Bruins defense is #2 in the league. We do all we can to get a good defense and it’s very low. Is it Chara? Is it the goalie? Is it a defense coach?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
How are you defining ‘best’? In terms of goal-against per game, the Bs are third – behind St. Louis and NYR. In terms of shots-against per game they are near the absolute worst at 25th in the league … which leads me to say that most of their advantage hangs out at Tim Hortons a lot and posts ridiculous save percentages.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Rask likes Tim Horton’s?
Who knew?
Bob.
by The Dark on Jan 23, 2012 12:48 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Well really – doesn’t everybody? :)
And I’d take Thomas’ .933 any day over Bryz’ .895 … but yeah, Rask is their Bob, no doubt.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
OT
Am I the only one that immediately pictures a luau when someone says ,“Tuuka Rask”? It just sounds like some traditional Hawaiian appetizer to me.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, Rask is very un-Hawaiian.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
True – but somehow my mind reconciles that obvious linguistic misfit.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if this has been discussed, but what do people think about this?
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
^ It’s about Jagr maybe wanting to return on a (reasonable) one-year deal.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by alcatraz0109 on Jan 23, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it’s been brought up a few times. I think it’s pretty cool that he definitely wants to stay in Philly barring injury issues
Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.
Sean Couturier and Matt Read for joint Calder Trophy winners!
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Jan 23, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I agree and it feels good that he feels welcomed but with roughly half a season (and playoffs) left I’d want to see how he holds up the rest of the way.
And my mistake, I just searched for that particular link and didn’t see anything.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by alcatraz0109 on Jan 23, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
It’s probably because the story’s been published by so many sites now, but it’s perfectly fine.
I think the great part is that HE wants to wait until the end of the season so that HE can see how he’s doing injury wise, not just trying to get signed right away. He understands he’s in iffy shape right now.
Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.
Sean Couturier and Matt Read for joint Calder Trophy winners!
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Jan 23, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I think the great part is that HE wants to wait until the end of the season so that HE can see how he’s doing injury wise, not just trying to get signed right away. He understands he’s in iffy shape right now.
Agreed, his approach to the situation is what makes me happiest of all. He’d love to play, if he can, and he’s not worried about money. He genuinely seems to be in it just for the love of playing, and is honest with himself about adding to the team vs hurting it.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
If Jagr decides that he would like to return next season, Homer has to be very careful with this. I’m curious what DG has to say about contract extensions and tagging before I can make any assessment, but it may be that he has to sign Jagr to a PTO through the preseason, then sign him after Day One of the new season in order for him to play here again.
It’s still in progress (I’m hoping for an email reply before I post a truly ugly-looking calculation, because I don’t want to mislead you all if I can avoid it), but we have very little room to work with in that department. I’ll keep you posted.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 23, 2012 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Chara: His career has forced hockey fans to rethink their views on slamming people’s faces into metal stanchions, since most of us had assumed there was some sort of rule against that.
Great stuff from DGB!
www.southpawcurve.blogspot.com - check out my baseball blog!!
I love the birthday joke.
I heart our rookies.
"Who's more crazy? Who's more...weird?"
"That was a fluffernutter!"
by LeepinLizardz on Jan 23, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Phantoms
ADK lost to the Binghampton Senators again last night 4-3. The Phantoms are 0-6 against them this season, and their the worst team in the AHL (last in points). I know that they’re shorthanded in terms of personnel and were using Kessel and Lauridsen as wingers last night, but still.
Some notes from McManus:
Goaltender Mike McKenna has been in net for all six wins. He came into the game with a 1.80 goals-against-average and a .951 save percentage against the Phantoms. Against the rest of the league, McKenna is 5-12.
The Phantoms again failed to make up ground on first-place Connecticut, which holds a two-point lead over Adirondack, Bridgeport and Albany despite losing nine straight games.
Holy mediocrity, Batman!
When you are forced to use a defensive defenenseman like Lauridsen you know the NHL is using a lot of rookie on there roster
by Anders Jensen on Jan 23, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I’m on the bubble in my fantasy league in terms of making the playoffs (non-BSH league). If you had to choose between these 3 forwards to put in the lineup this week, who do you like?:
- Martin Erat (32 points in 39 games played)
- Chris Kelly (wondering is he’s ok after the Hartnell hit as he was slow to get up)
- Blake Wheeler (was out with a throat injury but claims he’s 100% again)
"That was a lot of fun. We don't go to jail, we beat up their chicken forwards, we score ten goals, and we win. And now the Moose drinks beer." -Andre "Moose" Dupont
Obviously Wheeler has the biggest upside … but how long was he out? Does he need his ‘skating legs’ again? Kelly is always a question … so if you’re risk-adverse I’d suggest Erat.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Looking at season totals, last 30 days, and last 15 days, I go with Erat in all three time frames. He has more points than the other two in fewer games. Kelly and Wheeler get more PIMs, but Erat seems to lead them in everything else.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
A bit about the Flyers from THN:
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/44301-Dr-Boucher-Onice-testing-with-the-Philadelphia-Flyers.html
jreed will enjoy this piece.
As I’ve long suspected, hockey players are perhaps the most fit of all major sports. Maybe soccer players are more fit, but that’s not a major sport here.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Actually, the contention is that soccer players run more consistently – so they actually use less power because they’re always sorta idling. Just like a car – when you stop for a few seconds to run into 7-11, it’s better for the car engine to idle while you’re in there (soccer player) while what we do is turn it off and start it up again (hockey player). To do that creates a greater strain on the system, and requires more power.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Alot of positions in soccer does not demand that much running outside of a few sprints. The only position there have to be extreme fit in soccer is the midfielder.
by Anders Jensen on Jan 23, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Running yes, but jogging all the time – idling along, in essence. As a former inside wing and goalie, I see your point, but the bursts from hockey players where they go from sitting on the bench to full speed to sitting again; the differential is greater, and looking at the energy requirements shows disproportionate expenditure to get from zero to jogging, as opposed to jogging to running. It takes less energy to get your car from 45 mph to 65 mph than it does to get it from 0 to 20mph. That’s the point of the article. I suppose I was inaccurate saying soccer players ‘run all the time’; it’s more that they’re in motion constantly.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
It was more that I cant see how one can believe a soccer player is more fit then a hockey player.
by Anders Jensen on Jan 23, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Both are speed endurance sports but I’d say that hockey operates more in the anaerobic range (cells are doing work in a no oxygen environment) and soccer more in the aerobic range. A better comparison would be hockey to basketball or rowing and soccer to field hockey or lacrosse.
In terms of recovery rates one can argue that soccer is more demanding and therefore soccer players are more fit because games, due, in part to longer recovery rates, are schelduled further apart. However that is a function of how quickly different body systems recover. And while quicker recovery rates are a function of fitness there isn’t that much of a disparity between the relative fitness levels of hockey and soccer players that allows hockey to be played every other day or even back to back unless hockey players are from another planet. The point is that different parameters for determing “fit” can give you different results.
Agreed – I always say that rugby players are the most fit of any sports people, because of the exceptional balance of endurance (45 minute halves, with very little stoppage of play), and strength (just watch a good ruck sometime, and you’ll see what I mean).
I may, of course, be a bit biased …. being an ex-rugger myself.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 24, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah interesting stuff. There’s a reason why olympic hockey is the Crown Jewel of the Winter Games. However I’d say that endurance, if that’s what your using to measure fitness, is like any other athletic ability, sport specific. It’s why I’ll consistently refuse to call enforcers anything other than what they are – brawlers. They wouldn’t last more than 3 rounds with a real fighter because they are, you guessed it, hockey players. But if pressed to pick using that criteria, among the major team sports, it would go to soccer in terms of aerobic endurance and hockey players for anaerobic endurance.
Stats on fighting vs. winning
This from a NYT article on Saturday, and apropos of discussions we’ve had here recently (should we go after Staios; answering the Bruins’ intiimidation).
Some numbers:
In the last 32 years, teams that have finished among the bottom three in fighting majors have won 10 President’s Trophies and 11 Stanley Cups. Teams that have finished in the top three have won two of each. That’s a 5x difference. The average position of the President’s Trophy winner was 21st, and the Stanley Cup Winner was 20th (I believe those numbers are adjusted pre-1990 for a 30-team league).
Two regular season winners were ‘80 Flyers and ’91 Hawks. Two Cup winners were ’07 Ducks and last year’s Bruins.
Also, fighting does lead to an increase in goals in the subsequent five minutes of play, but not to the advantage of either the winner or loser in the fight.
And an opinion from a guy who knows a little bit about hockey, and winning:
"I wanted to play four lines, especially in the playoffs," said Scotty Bowman, who coached the Penguins and the Red Wings to championships. "That was always my theory. You have to stand up to the other team, but if you have a guy that just specializes in fighting, it’s a handicap."
The most amusing part of the article is that the main picture is, of course, a 70s Bullies brawl.
The story also quotes behindthenet.ca, “part of the new generation of advanced hockey statisticians that has emerged in the last few years.”
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 23, 2012 2:38 PM EST reply actions
MAN I wish that Philadelphia still had a real newspaper!!!
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
That is mildly interesting stuff. Being as I feel I am the lone fighting advocate on the site that doesn’t have a mere blood lust. I see the role as fading but useful. Now I don’t want to do 3 hours of defending Shelley’s contract value to cap hit. I will admit there is not a need to pay a fighter millions of dollars. And the rules of the league make it hard to employ the skills of a fighter to send a message.
What is totally pathetic, insulting and misguided is the authors beliefs that the Flyers only contended for cups by gooning it up and fighting. We all know there is absolutely no truth to that being the only reason they were successful.
It’s really interesting for Bowman to say employing a fighter is a waste, because he has employed plenty of fighters on the teams he has managed and coached. It is also nice for the guy to make holier than thou statements when he has had the fortune to coach some of the most talented teams in NHL history. His hall of fame rosters of players won him cups, fighters would have not lost those cups on those teams. I would also be pretty sure if you went down the rosters of every cup winning team since expansion there was a fighter employed. He might not have led the league in fighting majors. Even Gretzky, Mr. Anti-fighting himself, won all his cups with a guy named cement head by his side keeping other players honest.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
A good follow-up question to Bowman would have been about when he chose to use fighters. Was it when he knew he didn’t have four quality lines and physical intimidation was therefore a good second choice?
And yes, the Flyers v Canadiens 70s story is now more than 35 years old. The game has gone through so many changes since then that it is absurd.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 23, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
It didn’t seem the author was interested in anything but criticizing the Flyers and denigrating fighting. But this took the cake for stupidity:
For example, neither the Bruins nor the Rangers carry a classic enforcer who plays just a handful of shifts and fights during one of them.
Dude, ever hear of Shawn Thorton or Brandon Prust? Yea, those two are employed for their sniper skills.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
And if not for his tragic death the Boogieman would have worn Ranger Blues this year.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
And in 91 when Bowman won that cup with the Pens skated a Philly native named Jay Caufield. Not a sniper. Oh and Scotty Bowman also played a little known guy named Stu “The Grim Reaper” Grimson during his holier then thou years in Detroit.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
AND....
If this guy knew a friggin thing he would also realize the squeaky clean Canadians of the 70’s would not have beaten a Flyers team with Bernie Parent instead of Wayne Stevenson. Rest his soul but not a hall of famer. But I guess Bernie wasn’t really that good it was all the fighting. Now I am just aggravated, thanks!
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
No aggressive play by the Canadiens of the 70s. Nope, never happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKd4HJNSbQg&feature=player_embedded
"That was a lot of fun. We don't go to jail, we beat up their chicken forwards, we score ten goals, and we win. And now the Moose drinks beer." -Andre "Moose" Dupont
So Bowman put Caufield in the lineup 50 times the year he was coach of the Penguins, but he only had nine fights that year. And he played him in 5 playoff games with no fights. So he used him but he wasn’t integral nor did he fight very much.
Grimson played one full season in Detroit under Bowman,11 games in the regular season and then 11 in the playoffs in they year they acquired him from Anaheim, the next year 56 games and then two in the playoffs. He had 19 fights with Detroit, one in the playoffs.
He had Kocur for one full season after that but don’t see any other regulars in Bowman’s nine years in Detroit who were primarily fighters.
Maybe we beat them with Parent. All four games were close when they swept us. They were a pretty great team though.
And yes, NYT and Klein in particular are anti-Flyers. And I’m happy I could aggravate you. :-)
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 23, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure if we beat MTL in 76 but sure as hell not swept. They had one of the greatest rosters in NHL history.
The Flyers were exhausted in 76 when they got to that series compounded with the absence of Parent. I really wanted the “hat trick in 76”. I was so bummed out, not as devastated as I was in 80, but bummed none the less. Was it really Bowman all those cups or the rosters? But to take a stance that fighters are useless while you have had them on most of your rosters is ludicrous.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
They were also missing MacLeish, a huge loss.
One of my earliest hockey memories is a shot of Clarke’s face before a faceoff very late in game 4, after Lafleur and Mahavolich scored two goals a minute apart to give them a 5-3 lead. He looked beaten, which was pretty unusual for him.
1980 was worse, in part because of the promise of the streak, and Stickle and all that. I think ‘86 first round against the Rangers is the worst I’ve ever felt, though, especially given the fact that year was the only gap in the 1976-1988 Canadiens/Islanders/Oilers dynasty.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 23, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
I was 12 in 80 and let’s just say I had a personal stake in the cup that year. I cried for two days after Stickle screwed me. I am still bitter till tis day. The whole team was physically and mentally shot in 76. MacLeish and even Barber started with knee issues. Billy played his later career without ACLs. Having surgery in those days was a career ender.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
seriously im going to end up joining stanley cup of chowder
and going point by point with pictures and videos n why they should never accuse ne 1 of being a dirty team or high hits or anything whats so ever
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
bad idea, at least for your own health and sanity
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
FB Post re: Thomas Skipping the WH visit
Is gonna bring out the political shit, boys. You had to know this.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Also, here’s my opinion on this, FWIW. Every president invites any title winning team to the WH as a team honor. He is placing his political beliefs above that of his team. This is not the place to make a “statement”. He is making this all about him and that’s the issue.
Also, what you guys said. The prez invites you—don’t care if you like him or not—you go. I went to the Gov’s mansion for lunch when Bob Casey was in office. That shit is mad.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
by doubleh on Jan 23, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly. It’s not a meeting to discuss political views. It’s a celebration of the accomplishment of winning the Cup. It’s not everyday you get an invite to the White House for lunch. I’d go no matter what!
"That was a lot of fun. We don't go to jail, we beat up their chicken forwards, we score ten goals, and we win. And now the Moose drinks beer." -Andre "Moose" Dupont
There’s a long and proud history of flipping the bird at establishment and status quo in this country, including the story of its beginning, as well as a long and shameful tradition of acquiescing to power bullies. So I’m partial to protests, even if I disagree with the particulars.
And I think every trip to the White House is available for someone’s political use. As a citizen, he shouldn’t suspend his politics because he’s a hockey player.
But if they want to arrest him until July I’ll set aside my civil liberty concerns.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 23, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree with you in part, but not in this case only because it’s the same thing that happens every year no matter who is in office.
That said, it doesn’t make me like him any more or any less. He’s a very good goaltender with a slight weight problem and strong resemblance to Drew Carey who unfortunately plays for Boston so I’m always gonna hate him. I hate whoever doesn’t wear O&B in varying degrees. Ain’t nothing gonna change that, man.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
The story is now on Drudge so I presume Thomas got what he wanted out of it.
"That was a lot of fun. We don't go to jail, we beat up their chicken forwards, we score ten goals, and we win. And now the Moose drinks beer." -Andre "Moose" Dupont
Thomas had a better year. Wasn’t that what Babe Ruth said when they asked him why he got paid more than the President?
Of course now they all get paid more than the President.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 23, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve just never agreed with any body turning down an invitation to the White House based on political beliefs. Unless you or your loved ones was directly harmed by the Executive branch, I think you go to the White House when asked. Period.
You can make a political statement another time, or, I don’t know, you can make the political statement that the accomplishment of winning a national championship trumps party politics. Or maybe, I don’t know, that despite political differences, you are able to stand in the same room as a guy you disagree with, especially when there is nothing political about it.
Or you can turn a day of celebrating sports into a petty argument over politics.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 23, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
yeah – and the White House cooks are the BEST!
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Jan 23, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
WOW!
Anyone watching the Blues/Wings game. Talking about responding to hard clean hits lately, there was just a dozy of a fight between Stewart and Stuart. Crazy
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.

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