Flyers tell Zac Rinaldo to hit less: Is that happening, and is it a good thing?
by Travis Hughes on Jan 31, 2012 3:30 PM EST
in Philadelphia Flyers Commentary
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Get ready to take every preconceived idea you've ever had about the way the Philadelphia Flyers operate and throw it out the door. These are the new Flyers. The tame Flyers. The Brendan Shanahan-is-watching-you Flyers. Via Puck Daddy, emphasis ours:
"Philadelphia told me about Zac Rinaldo," said Shanahan. "He's a really big hitter. Hits hard. But they said to him that if you see 20 hits a game in your head, pick the best three. That's enough to be a physical, intimidating player in this League. When I hear coaching like that, that's when I'm thinking there's full buy-in there."
You're not going to get an argument out of me that this isn't the way things should be. Physical play is good, but only when it's smart. That's from a discipline perspective (not taking so many damned penalties) and a safety perspective -- we don't want every player in the league to go down with injury thanks to dirty hits.
The conventional wisdom when it comes to the Flyers says that they're never going to adhere to a tamer style. They are stuck in the past, and they're never going to comprise a physical presence for anything -- whether the NHL says they should or not. That's what we've believed since the 70s, right?
I've gotta say, this makes me a little proud of the organization I've spent my entire life rooting for. But is it necessarily smart from a hockey perspective?
There's no doubt that taking less hits will result in fewer penalties minutes, and fewer penalty minutes is obviously a very good thing. A more disciplined, smarter Zac Rinaldo is certainly a good thing. But the truth is that this season, Rinaldo has taken 124 penalty minutes in 36 games. That's 3.4 minutes per game he's spending in the penalty box, and he's only averaging 6:14 in total ice time per game this season.
(That's obviously not the rate at which he's giving the opposition a power play, thanks to fights and misconducts and concurrent minors, but the point is that he's in the box more than any NHLer not named Zenon Konopka. That's not a disciplined player.)
Rinaldo takes a lot of penalties regardless of whether or not the Flyers are telling him to take it easy. And looking at the number of hits he's taken per game over the course of the season thus far, I'm not so sure he's been letting up -- at least not lately. Click the chart below to enlarge.
He's stayed relatively steady in terms of his average hits per game this season, but over the last 10 games, he's registered five hits once and six hits on two separate occasions. It seemed like he tamed a little bit in between Games 7 and 25 of his season, taking that "no more than three" message as completely literal. Lately, though, he's throwing the body a bit more. Maybe he's getting off message.
Either way, that's not my concern. If you're going to have a guy like Zac Rinaldo in the lineup, you need to have him in there hitting. We've already discovered that the Flyers are losing the play, generally speaking, when he's on the ice, so if he's not having a physical impact on the game, he's basically worthless.
Is telling him to tone it down (and provided he takes the advice) a bit going to minimize his impact? You hope he can still be a threatening force when he's out there, like Shanahan says, even if he's hitting less and doing it smarter, but I just don't know. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that's all that quantifiable.
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I don't like the message
I understand why they want him to hit less, but like the article says he’s virtually useless if he’s not out there putting a body on someone and being physical. Yes, he takes penalties, but he also draws penalties. I think you need to keep him hitting because he will draw a penalty now and then. Kind of a take the bad with the good when the opportunity presents itself. Otherwise, they might as well run four lines without a “checking” line.
You see he’s effective so far, and you want him to hit more? Do you not follow the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” approach?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 31, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
I do follow that approach, I would just rather see him being more physical than not. Rather than a “3 hit directive” shouldn’t they be coaching him to take what would be a good hit every time the opportunity presents itself? Perhaps I’m just over-thinking things.
I don’t see it as them giving a “3 hit directive”, I see them recognizing that Rinaldo is insane and sees 20 big hits a game when there are really only 3 or 4.
They’re telling him “be more selective you crazy bastard.” In a much nicer way, of course.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 31, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
But since he’s insane, we need to assume he’d take that literally right?
Seriously though, forks. I think telling a player like Rinaldo to limit his hits is effectively removing his effectiveness. He’s at his best playing like a wrecking-ball and making the opposing players worried he’s going to seriously injure them.
The message needs to be “hit smarter, not less.” If he can’t figure out the difference, perhaps coaching him might work. That’s what Lavy and Berube’s jobs are, right?
The message needs to be "hit smarter, not less." If he can’t figure out the difference, perhaps coaching him might work. That’s what Lavy and Berube’s jobs are, right?
Isn’t that what they’re doing, though? That’s what I took away from the quote, at any rate.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Is it? Taken with the lack of context we have, it seems (to me) like they’re asking him to consciously limit the checks he throws with the thought that the lower the number of hits, the lower the chances of a bad/suspendable hit. In my opinion, they need to focus on ensuring every check he throws is clean, and then tell him to go at it.
by mattsotheran on Feb 1, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough. I guess that’s what I took “pick the best three” to mean. But you’re right, it could go either way. Not enough context.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yeah. We can have different interpretations of a second hand quote.
Hopefully Rinaldo only has one.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 1, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
But how is that different from a defenseman who pinches too much? Or a forward who makes too many high-risk passes? You’re not asking them to stop, just to make good decisions about when to do it.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 31, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
“You might see 20 opportunities to clock a guy with your stick, but try to just pick the three or four best ones.”
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by Eric T. on Jan 31, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Would be interested to see a similar chart that included Rinaldo’s hits per game from last season as a comparison.
Such a chart would not exist, since Rinaldo didn’t play in the regular season last year.
He played two games in the playoffs. He had 5 hits.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 31, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry I should have been more specific.
I didn’t necessarily mean NHL stats, just in general how he played with the Phantoms. I know its not a perfect comparison to draw with it being AHL to NHL but I am just curious what his hitting habits were in the past prior to this new 3 hit directive.
Ah. The AHL doesn’t track hits. The AHL doesn’t track much of anything, really. Neither does the OHL (where he played previously).
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 31, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure they chart hits in the AHL. AHL stats are so 1960.
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by Travis Hughes on Jan 31, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Ahhh ok. Yea I did a quick search too and couldn’t find anything on hits so I guess I was just hoping you guys knew where to look.
Purely based on what I remember from last season, Rinaldo was ALWAYS looking for a big hit. He really was getting limited ice time (another stat we cant track in the AHL), so when he was out there you knew it and I’m sure he was hitting those same hit numbers last year, if not more. Not sure if that means anything.
Frankly, we’re lucky they bother to track assists in the AHL.
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This is true.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 31, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think that’s just dumb. When the Flyers play less physics they lose. Look how well they played Boston last time and how physical that game was. The 2 best teams in the East (NYR and Boston) play an incredibly physical, almost intimidating, game.
If you want less hitting, watch soccer. The Flyers need to get MORE physical and hit more.
by lava96 on Jan 31, 2012 4:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
So are you implying the people in the Flyers organization who said this should change their profession to soccer as well?
Or is this a heaping serving of sarcasm? Or did you just miss the point?
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
by DLJr on Jan 31, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
When the Flyers play less physics they lose. Look how well they played Boston last time and how physical that game was.
Yeah, but they lost that game too. And the one to NYR. So your physical = wins argument seems to be missing something at the moment. Hmm…. What could it be…. Oh, I know what it is: you’re missing the point! The point of the article and coaching directive isn’t “don’t play physical,” it’s don’t be dumb about it. Hit, but be smart. Don’t lose control and lose focus on the game because you’re too busy with hitting. If you want hitting without all that silly hockey getting in the way, go watch UFC.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Oh, ’don’t take dumb penalties’ is the NEW message? So the old message was ‘take dumb penalties’? Well, if that’s true, I’m sure glad the Flyers are moving away from the old message.
Of course it’s you who is missing the point. The new message just is don’t hit so much even if it means passing up on some clean hits. It means hit less. And it means that because they’re questioning his decision making out on the ice or his ability to deliver clean hits (when he intends to). If they didn’t, then they would just say ‘go out there and make only clean hits.’ But that isn’t the message. The message is hit less.
The Flyers played soft during stretches of the Boston game, early in the 1st and early in the 3rd. Both times Boston scored. We lost in a shootout to Boston, so hitting or a lack thereof, played no role in the outcome. We tied Boston because we played physical with them — i.e. we hit them. When he didn’t play physical with them, we got spanked 6-0. Spin that with any metric you like. It won’t change diddly.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
And it means that because they’re questioning his decision making out on the ice or his ability to deliver clean hits (when he intends to).
When you have more suspensions than goals, I question his decision making too. He hasn’t earned the right to have his decision making unquestioned.
If they didn’t, then they would just say ‘go out there and make only clean hits.’ But that isn’t the message. The message is hit less.
Either the message is unclear, or you aren’t getting the message.
But they said to him that if you see 20 hits a game in your head, pick the best three.
If they wanted him to hit less, you wouldn’t see a level hit-per-game mark. You would see a spike at the beginning of the season and a drop to where he is now.
Or, if they wanted him to hit less, they would have said: “Stop hitting people so often.” Instead, what they said was, “If you see 20 hits in your head”, pick the best three.
The message is: You see more hits than are there. Filter yourself so you are making sure your hits are clean.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 31, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t question his decision making. I’m saying let’s be clear on what the ‘new message’ actually is: hit less.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
And let’s be clear that the message is specific to Rinaldo, who was bat-shit crazy in the AHL last season. They’re telling him to take less of the bat-shit crazy hits and restrain himself to the smart ones. Less dumb penalties, but he can still hit.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yes, he can still hit - but less. Hit less. That’s the message.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Let’s be even clearer. For Rinaldo the message is BOTH less hits and less dumb penalties. My point is that they’re not telling the whole team to stop playing physical all together, which is what lava96’s original comment implied.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I realize it’s a message to Rinaldo. Look, unless we’re simply going to attribute to Rinaldo an ability to make better decisions with regard to hits, or at least better control in regards to hits he intends to be clean, then the message can only be ‘just hit less’ — because how else is he going to start passing up on some hits which he normally makes?
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Let’s back up. I think you and I are actually saying the same thing. What I took issue with was lava96’s original comment, which suggested that the coaching staff wanted the team so stop playing physical entirely. And that isn’t true. That’s what I was trying to get at in my first response. But then you took what I said and twisted it to the absurd (a bit trollish, if I’m being honest, which is why I said you were being asinine), and we got all wrapped around the axle.
Yes, they’ve asked Rinaldo to hit less, which is also asking him to be smarter about the hits he takes. But they are not trying to completely remove physical play. So lava96’s assertion that we should “go watch soccer” is still incorrect.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
You would only see what you’re saying if he follows the message. Not every message gets followed to the letter. You’re reasoning backwards from his actions to what the message was. I’m reading the message.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
How am I reasoning backwards from his actions?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 31, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, ’don’t take dumb penalties’ is the NEW message? So the old message was ‘take dumb penalties’?
No, don’t be asinine.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
You said the new message was, essentially, ‘play physical but don’t be dumb about it.’ And I’M being asinine?
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, ’don’t take dumb penalties’ is the NEW message? So the old message was ‘take dumb penalties’?
False dichotomy.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
You guys are cute when you attempt logic.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
At least some of us make the attempt. ;-)
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
You guys are clueless. Nobody is committing a false dichotomy fallacy.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
For the record, i never commit argumentative fallacies. So there’s that.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Hahaha, that’s almost funnier than calling me a troll.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
As entertaining as this is, it’s time for dinner. But thanks for the good laugh.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
My pleasure. Enjoy your meal. And let’s go, Flyers!
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, ’don’t take dumb penalties’ is the NEW message? So the old message was ‘take dumb penalties’?
Because I said the message was don’t take dumb penalties, you jumped to the conclusion that they previously told him to take dumb penalties. That right there is a false dichotomy. You’ve assumed that there are only two possible answers: take dumb penalties and don’t take dumb penalties. That’s the very definition of a false dichotomy. I would know, I have it open in another tab.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I don’t jump to conclusions. It’s more of a shimmy.
I don’t care what you’re reading. You’re not understanding how to apply the definition. I didn’t assume that there are only two possible answers.
I mocked you by offering the direct contrast of your answer. Obviously — and that’s the point, it was obvious — the old message wasn’t “go take dumb penalties.” The point was to make you think what was the old message if the new message, as you say, is ‘play physical but don’t take dumb penalties.’ Well, since the Flyers played physical before and, as you say, are not changing that part of their game, then that can’t be part of what’s new about the ‘new message’. That leaves the ’don’t take dumb penalties’. Basically, the new message, according to you, is ’don’t take dumb penalties’. What’s NEW about that? Nothing. That’s the old message. It’s the perennial message. If the message is new, then it only meaning can be ‘hit less.’ That’s the point of my dichotomy. There’s nothing false about it as nothing rests with whether you accept it or not — it was meant to draw attention to what you’re actually saying.
Like I said, I don’t make argumentative fallacies.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
I mocked you by offering the direct contrast of your answer. Obviously — and that’s the point, it was obvious — the old message wasn’t "go take dumb penalties."
Exactly, you were trolling. The rest is rambling about semantics.
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"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Ad hominem fallacy!
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It’s not a fallacy here. Come on, I thought I told you that I don’t commit argumentative fallacies.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Argument then War, even the score!
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by Phaninsanfran on Feb 1, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
OH SWEET THRASH JESUS!!!!!!!
Forces united the choice is yours
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The Flyers played soft during stretches of the Boston game, early in the 1st and early in the 3rd. Both times Boston scored. We lost in a shootout to Boston, so hitting or a lack thereof, played no role in the outcome. We tied Boston because we played physical with them — i.e. we hit them. When he didn’t play physical with them, we got spanked 6-0. Spin that with any metric you like. It won’t change diddly.
My spinning metric is pretty basic:
Flyers outhit Boston in the first period by a 3-1 ratio and were outscored 3-1.
Bruins came out in the second period and almost tripled their hit total from the first period and were outscored 3-0.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 31, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
like Shelley?
Why is it irrelevant?
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 31, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Because there’s a difference in the type of hits delivered. There are those you make because the other team is taking it to you, so in your defensive zone, most of the game, and those where the roles are reversed. The second meeting b/w the Flyers and Boston resulted in a 6-0 loss to them, yet we hit them more. But if you watch the game, it was clearly us hitting them as they cycled the puck in our zone and set up screens in front of Bryz. We were hitting but from a defensive position, not really taking it to them. In the last game, we brought the play to them. When we sit back, we’ll still hit (out of necessity), but it’s a different story when we are forechecking hard like last game. We forechecked soft in the opening minutes of game one and it resulted in a goal. It was pretty clear if you saw how that goal developed from their zone to ours because of a lack of making them pay to play the puck. Same thing happened in the 2nd period. We attacked more but they hit us more from a defensive position, and we outscored them 3-0. Hitting alone means little to nothing. But I’m talking about physical, take-it-to-them hitting. And that’s what we need more of — because it works.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
I thought it was the most important game of the year, in part because of the physical challenge it provided the team. It was also the most enjoyable game of the year because of the physical play.
But I thought the changes in flow during the game were more general, not driven by hitting, and not a case of one team or another going “soft.” I didn’t see them go soft. I saw them lose battles, including the first goal against the wall in the offensive zone. It looked to me like they were focusing on getting the puck and didn’t succeed. The goals seemed mostly to me like a lot of the goals this season, from lax positioning, turnovers, meh play in the neutral zone, and not tying up guys in front. The hitting was important because the Bruins challenge teams that way.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 31, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I pretty much agree. The difference between us is in how much importance we attach to the type of hitting we’re talking about. It’s really not a big disagreement. Obviously if people think I’m wrong, then they think I’m putting too much emphasis or assigning too much importance to the hitting. I think they’re not assigning enough. Whatever. Let’s leave it at that.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
The goals seemed mostly to me like a lot of the goals this season, from lax positioning, turnovers, meh play in the neutral zone, and not tying up guys in front.
Seems like that’s how most goals are scored just like baseballs get crushed when a pitcher is up in the zone. I think at this level of athleticism, once random variation is accounted for, a good amount of what differentiates good from bad is the number mistakes.
Yeah, it is true in general, not just with this year’s Flyers.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Jan 31, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
What I take home from this is that the Flyers Youth Brigade are doing alot of heavy lifting and as alot of rookies are prone to make mistakes, the chances are, depending on how much regression, if any at all takes place, we should see an even better team. A team I believe will be a legit contender next year. Not that they aren’t contenders now, it’s simply the rooks throw a reasonable amount of uncertainity into the equation – there’s really no stable reference upon which to make a sound prediction.
Ah, less physics...
Bryz is now comtemplating the implications of your statement and wonders how the world will be with less physics.
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That’s a question that should never be asked, nor asked about.
by fiveredapples on Jan 31, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, just trade them to Tampa.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 31, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As much as this goes against my very fiber, I agree. It’s a risk reward thing. He needs to be physical to draw attention to his ice time, but flying around seeming out of control just attracts the refs. Laying 3 big, LEGAL, hits a game is enough to get the opposition to look over their shoulders wondering where he might be which changes the competition. I like the concept.
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DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
yeah but what if the other teams coaches now know that he’s been given 3 hits a game, they count them and now know he’s done for the game…..
not so serious of a statement but half serious, the other teams now know he won’t be running around like a maniac won’t that take the “look over the shoulders” part of his game away?
http://restorations.bandcamp.com/
I’m sure 3 isn’t a hard and fast rule, but then that’s probably the not-so-serious part of your comment. He’s still allowed to hit, so I think they still have to watch out for him.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
These journalistic content posts need to stop.
I’m trying to talk about what I think will happen 3 hours from now and I have to scroll past this garbage with quotes, information, and original content to get there. This blog is going downhill in a hurry…
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 31, 2012 4:48 PM EST reply actions
.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Aren’t you one of the people who refuses to use the sarcasm font? It seems like you should only be on that side of the debate if you are capable of being confident that someone requesting less journalistic content and less “garbage with quotes, information, and original content” is sarcastic.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I claim small sample size on RealSantaClaude. Not enough commenting history for me to judge whether they would mean it or not.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
lol was totally kidding. Sorry, I am not well versed in the formatting etiquette here yet.
by RealSantaClaude on Jan 31, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t tell the Inquirer or the Courier Post we do journalism around here. They’ll yell at you.
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by Travis Hughes on Jan 31, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ah they can yell all they want right until I say I am going to cancel my subscription…. Then again i do not follow the Flyers coverage from both of those papers anyway… i did when Chuck wrote for the Post not so much now…
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Semper Fi...
Maybe they’re trying to have a ‘hit smarter’ message underlaying in there. By hitting less, there’s less of a chance to get off balance, fall or something and be tangled up with a guy leading to him being out of position; possibly leading to scoreboard consequences. I could definately see the message they’re trying to send is if you aren’t positive you’ve queued the guy up and are going to go full body on, shy away. Smarter, harder hits.
"BOB!...hmm?...BOB!...huh?...BOB!...What!?!...BOB!...FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHAT DO YOU WANT?"
There's a stray ginger tabby in my neighborhood who frequents my house because the lady who lives downstairs also has a cat: I have taken to affectionately calling him Cladue
by WeDontWinTheLadyByng on Feb 1, 2012 9:15 AM EST reply actions
On a side note...
That pic is pretty cool looking, it looks he’s trying to sword fight with Whitney and winning.
"BOB!...hmm?...BOB!...huh?...BOB!...What!?!...BOB!...FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHAT DO YOU WANT?"
There's a stray ginger tabby in my neighborhood who frequents my house because the lady who lives downstairs also has a cat: I have taken to affectionately calling him Cladue
by WeDontWinTheLadyByng on Feb 1, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
It could be worse, ever see that European commercial where there’s the 3 guys in the bathroom and the one guy wants to light a cig and everyone ends up holding for each other?
"BOB!...hmm?...BOB!...huh?...BOB!...What!?!...BOB!...FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHAT DO YOU WANT?"
There's a stray ginger tabby in my neighborhood who frequents my house because the lady who lives downstairs also has a cat: I have taken to affectionately calling him Cladue
by WeDontWinTheLadyByng on Feb 1, 2012 11:18 AM EST reply actions
Reply fail…
"BOB!...hmm?...BOB!...huh?...BOB!...What!?!...BOB!...FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHAT DO YOU WANT?"
There's a stray ginger tabby in my neighborhood who frequents my house because the lady who lives downstairs also has a cat: I have taken to affectionately calling him Cladue
by WeDontWinTheLadyByng on Feb 1, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
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