Friday Morning Fly By: Who Will We Mock Now That Gomez Scored?
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 6:01 AM EST
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers-related news and notes...
- Recaps: [BSH] [SB Nation Philly] [CSNPhilly] [delcotimes] [Daily News] [Inquirer] [Flyers Faithful] [The Checking Line] [The Hockey Guys] [Bill Meltzer]
- Relive Scott Hartnell's #HartnellDown, goal, and fight on the same play: [the700level]
- After last weekend, calls for the Flyers to acquire a defenseman were rekindled. While Marc-Andre Bourdon and Erik Gustafsson could use a new partner in the playoffs, who could the Flyers acquire that would be worth the small upgrade? [SB Nation Philly]
- An update on James van Riemsdyk and Ilya Bryzgalov: [CSNPhilly]
- With Ilya Bryzgalov's illness, a local Drexel Hill man got to play goal at the Flyers practice today. No, these stories don't get old: [delcotimes.com]
- Arguing that the Flyers need a physical presence in front of their own net: [The Checking Line]
- Kimmo Timonen filmed his flight to the All-Star Game on Ed Snider's private jet: [the700level]
- Bobby Clarke taught Claude Giroux how to win faceoffs. In 2008-09. While he's improved each year, this is the first year Giroux broke 50%. Sorry, I'm not seeing the connection: [CSNPhilly]
- The Phantoms have the worst road record in the AHL and they are heading on the road for seven of their next eight games: [PostStar]
- 368 days later, Scott Gomez scored a goal: [SBNation.com]
- Team power rankings, in which pre-season VUKOTA projections are slowly matching reality: [Hockey Prospectus]
- From the BSH Archives: Two years ago today, we posted BSH Radio 4. It included a 40 minute conversation with Anthony SanFilippo on Ray Emery's health, Jeff Carter trade rumors, a Brian Boucher and Peter Laviolette rift, an article critical of Paul Holmgren, and more: [BSH]
- From Ben: I like to think that Kate Smith is alive, well, and cursing out youngins across the SEPTA system. [YouTube]
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From the BSH archives!
My vaguely amused musings actually resulted in something pretty cool :-)
Was great to get a pretty nice feel for how things were two years ago. For the Flyers, it feels like a different era.
Also interesting comment by DG on that BSH radio:
I’m quite disappointed to hear SanFilippo’s theory that there’s some bad blood between Boosh and Lavvy. I can understand Boosh being frustrated with his long string of scratches, but I hate to think the guy isn’t getting a fair shake because they aren’t getting along.
We forgot about this theory completely later in the season and last season – but do we think that the Boosh-Lavvy relationship was ever a factor in the usage of Bob and the playoff goalie carousel? I can’t think of a connection, but interesting nonetheless.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 10, 2012 6:47 AM EST reply actions
If there actually was an issue back in early 2010, I think they were long over it by the 2011 playoffs. It was speculation from me then, though, and still just speculation now.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 10, 2012 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
Warning: Bleacher Report
I am going to link you an article from Bleacher Report. You see, it was entitled ‘5 reasons the Flyers should not make a splash’ (referring to trade rumors) so I was hoping for something actually decent from Bleacher!
What I got:
They will learn where each other are without looking, what man to pickup in the defensive zone, and if the player is going to take a shot, will it go for the five-hole.
Adding another new face now to take an expanded role would just be counterproductive to team chemistry.
Marc-Andre Bourdon and Eric Gustafson have been reliable in expanded roles as the third defensive pairing. I personally think these two could be the second coming of McCrimmon and Howe.
Together, Bourdon and Gustafson are a plus-10!
What can you say about Zac Rinaldo and Tom Sestito. These two are direct throwbacks to the Broad Street Bullies of the 70s.They combine for 189 penalty minutes!
The seven players I just mentioned have shown me they themselves could, as a group, be the nucleus of a contending franchise.
(yes 4 of those 7 players were Rinaldo, Sestito, Bourdon and Gustafsson)
If the Flyers are going to go far, they are going to need their goalies to at least be solid, otherwise a trade will just be futile.
Bryzgalov doesn’t have to win the Vezina, just the Cup. Let him continue to improve behind the players he is already adapting to. A new face might just discombobulate things.
discombobulate? what the…
Pronger’s visit to the Skate Zone in Voorhees is a far cry from saying he will return anytime soon. But it’s not saying that he can’t return at some point either….Heck, Ian Laperriere came back from a nasty concussion, even if it was premature; Pronger will be back well past the time it took Lappy to return.
Should we be so selfish as to write Pronger off before more certainty is made of his situation?
…?
Maybe the best thing is to let Pronger heal while these rookies develop into elite players.
OK…
Maybe another year under his belt in Philly will have Bryzgalov ready to take this team to the next level with a healthy Pronger leading the charge.
Right…
Now I want the Flyers to not make a move at all in the deadline. But this guy almost made me turn towards the opposing argument just so that I could feel comfortable with the world again.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 10, 2012 6:54 AM EST reply actions
Yes, Lappy returned after a nasty concussion to realize that he could have died or gotten some “nasty” brain damage for not being cautious about the concussion. Excellent reason to bring Pronger back.
Some one who says Rinaldo, Sestito, Bourdon, and Gustafsson will “develop into elite players” can’t be trusted. That’s not to say I don’t think anyone of them can be/is serviceable right now, but in the words of Ted Mosby: “C’mon. C’mon.”
I do agree with the article that a new face can throw off a team’s chemistry…but it hurts to type that.
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
Should we be so selfish as to write Pronger off before more certainty is made of his situation?
Concussions are uncertain by nature. He could be better tomorrow or the day after, or never again. Plus, how is making the team have a better chance of winning selfish? If they get somebody to play in Pronger’s spot until next season, and he feels good enough to return, I think the Flyers can find some room for him somewhere on the blue line, no?
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
That is just some fine quality journalism there. /s
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Feb 10, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
What can you say about Zac Rinaldo and Tom Sestito. These two are direct throwbacks to the Broad Street Bullies of the 70s
I’m pretty sure the Hammer never let a skill player fight for him.
Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
Everyone has more goals than Scott Gomez
by Kevin Sellathamby on Feb 10, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
Different times. How I long for the past when an enforcer could grab whomever he felt needed a beating and commence with his business.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
discombobulate
Don’t concern your self with these big important scientific words.
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Feb 10, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
That’s one of my favorite words, I don’t want to see BR ruin it for me…
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 10, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
4 of those 7 players were Rinaldo, Sestito, Bourdon and Gustafsson
Hey, those are the best rookies I’ve even seen!
/Fansince12’d
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
That Clarke taught Giroux how to take faceoffs thing was BS
Clarke must be a crap teacher if it took that long for his teaching to have an effect.
BUT there was an interesting aspect of the article:
It’s taken Giroux a couple of seasons to adjust his style. Mike Richards, who was a guy Giroux looked up to on draws, used to say, it took a couple of years in the league before officials knew him and allowed him certain liberties in the faceoff circle that would help him win draws.
Giroux says he’s seen that first hand. The officials now give him some leeway, as well. It’s called … cheating.
"Yeah, once in a while when you cheat," Giroux said. "If you have a winger, who can win it, too, you can cheat a little bit and have a more of a power to win it. If you are a good cheater, those are the best centerman."
In most cases, it’s about getting an angle on your stick down first before the draw to block the other center. Giroux learned that the hard way from someone in San Jose.
"I remember when I did faceoffs against Joe Thornton, he would cheat all the time and win the faceoff," Giroux said. "He was so good at cheating he would not get kicked out.
"It made me realize I have to cheat a little here. He was quicker. Just before the puck drops, his stick was already blocking my stick. The ref can’t do anything because it is so quick. You got to be able to do that."
Richards used to say there is a respect factor of "earning" the right to cheat on draws for a veteran player.
Do we find that players tend to improve their faceoff percentage as they get older? Also, how did Steve Ott get so much respect from the refs?
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 10, 2012 7:01 AM EST reply actions
Bobby Clarke taught Claude Giroux how to win faceoffs. In 2008-09. While he’s improved each year, this is the first year Giroux broke 50%.
#slowlearners
by Georgia_Flyer on Feb 10, 2012 7:17 AM EST up reply actions
This is seriously getting ridiculous. So because Claude didn’t istantly become a faceoff whiz that means Bobby Clarke didn’t teach him shit? I mean wow people, do you really have to draw it out in black and white like that? Come onnn.
Experience is the main factor in developing something like that, especially at the NHL level because they do it different that just about every hockey league. But to trash on bobby or the fact that he was possibly the first one to teach him at this level is completely absurd. Makes me think of Kobe showing Shaq how shoot free throws and then expecting him to be just as good. Umm no that’s ridiculous.
Everyone has their own learning curve. I seem to remember Adam Henrique being pretty damn good at faceoffs for a rookie, while there’s plenty of veteran centers that are nowhere near the calibre of the Malhotras or Mike Fishers.
by kckrebs on Feb 10, 2012 4:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I could be wrong, but I believe Georgia_Flyer was making a joke.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yeah I probably should have made the reply for the previous post but it goes to everyone that thinks bobby must be a “crap teacher” because G has only just now got over 50%. Its a load of crap.
No idea about the actual stats year by year but if he improved every year, shouldn’t bobby be getting at least a little credit? He for sure doesn’t deserve much because like I said before everyone has there own learning curve and experience is the biggest factor but holy people, talk about making something out of nothing..
by kckrebs on Feb 10, 2012 4:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think people are trashing the connection between Giroux’s increase in faceoff percentage in 11-12 and Clarke’s advice in 08-09, not Clarke’s advice itself. I’m sure he gave him great advice, but Giroux still needed years of experience make such a large improvement.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Personally, I’m trashing an article that is coming out attributing Giroux’s good faceoff percentage in 11-12 to something that happened in 08.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
So let me get this right. Bobby doesn’t deserve any credit because G wasn’t able to instantly become good at faceoffs with his advice? Therefore the advice must not have been any good? I have problems with this.
I’m also not sure how you can assume G would be as good at winning faceoffs if Bobby wouldn’t have helped him 3 years ago. I mean are you not allowed to give credit to your past coaches for teaching you something even if it took years to develop that certain skill?
by kckrebs on Feb 10, 2012 7:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I didn’t say any of that. It’s certainly possible that Clarke taught him how to look for something, or how to adapt, or something else about how to teach himself.
But Giroux was 47.2% at the dot after he was supposedly taught by Clarke. The summer without Clarke, he was 49.5%. Another year without Clarke, and he’s at 50%.
I don’t know how you can say that Clarke helped him just because “it could happen”. Generally, when you’re taught something, it doesn’t take 3 years for you to actually understand and utilize what you’re taught. I mean, are we going to credit Glen Metropolit for teaching Andreas Nodl how to play defense?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
The claim that Giroux got better because of something Clarke taught him is inherently unprovable. Neither side can know.
But it does seem unlikely that it would take years for the thing Clarke taught him to have an impact.
If Clarke did teach him something important, I would imagine that without that he would’ve been something like 45-47-48% those three years had he not learned from Clarke, instead of 47-49-50 — the recent improvement would still be attributed more to his growth than to finally getting the hang of that trick Clarke was talking about.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I think kckrebs took my comment on Clarke too seriously. I don’t actually doubt that Clarke taught Giroux something and I also don’t doubt that Clarke is a decent teacher. I just think that it’s crappy journalism to see ‘Clarke speaks to Giroux about faceoffs in 08’ and ‘Giroux is good in faceoffs in 2012’ and think ‘causation!’. I reckon Clarke would’ve helped Giroux get out of his early career faceoff slump where he was quite poor in the circle in my opinion, but after that Giroux’s work ethic and the referees getting to know Giroux took over.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 10, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. And I was going to say I thought you were just laughing at the article, but since two other people had already tried to guess what you were saying, I figured I’d just wait and let you answer.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
The “crap teacher” thing was just me mocking the article.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 10, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Geoff's article
Great read. If we could get any of those guys for Sestito and a 3rd I’d be thrilled. If we got any of them for Shelley and Walker I’d do cartwheels in my underwear down Broad Street.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Feb 10, 2012 7:25 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I don’t think Sestito + 3rd will actually get any of those players, but something like that would be fantastic.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
You were kind of misleading with those GA and GF/60, but fair enough haha.
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
In what way?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 8:47 AM EST up reply actions
Well I agree with what you said, because, well it’s true, I wonder if you expect that to continue? I understand why you wrote it the way that you did, to address current concerns, but for the rest of the season do you expect that to continue?
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
Oh, no, no I don’t. Which is why I said Bourdon will be replaced by Meszaros and Lilja isn’t good enough to carry one of them.
I see what you’re saying, though.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
Also, near the end “And while they are almost certainly better than Marc-Andre Bourdon and Erik Gustafsson, the fact remains that Bourdon isn’t getting scored on yet and Gustafsson provides more offense than any of these three will.”
It’s subtle, but it’s there ;)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
I actually feel you cover it better with Gus from the small sample wave bit. I also feel like saying this:
So here you have two guys, one who provides offense and one who provides defense. It’s tough to justify improving upon such impressive numbers, so then why are we talking about the need to upgrade?Because the thing is you should be trying to justify keeping numbers like that by adding someone who might be able to sustain those results a bit better. Keep in mind I don’t think they should make any trades, just providing this as constructive criticism; and frankly I’m picking nits a bit.
The other thing, I didn’t like that you only mention GA and GF/60 for Bourdon and Gus but then brought up Zone Starts, Competition, and Corsi Rel for the trading options. Though Gus’s numbers would likely be out of whack still.
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
Well, I again think your criticisms are on point and constructive.
The reason I I stayed surface level with Bourdon and Gus is because they (mostly just MAB) have been getting a lot of criticism lately, and most of that criticism is about turnovers and/or mistakes. And the best counter argument I have to that is: What do you care if the puck isn’t ending up in the Flyers net?
It’s similar to the surface level goalie talk. If there’s a problem, but it isn’t resulting in goals, is the price to upgrade worth it? How much will it cost to upgrade something that isn’t yet a problem? i.e. stop saying we need an immediate fix without realizing that there isn’t anything wrong yet.
I tried to go between that and “but yes, an upgrade can be had.” It wasn’t my best work, I know, but I felt it had to be said.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
And the best counter argument I have to that is: What do you care if the puck isn’t ending up in the Flyers net?
Let me preface this question with this: I know nothing about Corsi or Fenwick or other advanced stats.
Is there a way to know if those turn-overs resulted in opposition SOG or scoring opportunities? If those mishaps are resulting in scoring opportunities, I would say they’re still a concern – even if they don’t end up actually IN the goal.
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
There isn’t an easy way to say “His second turnover against Toronto resulted in X shots on goal, X shot attempts, and X time spent in his own zone”. Eric may be able to run those numbers, but I doubt he cares enough to get data dependent upon the individual scorer who tracks turnovers.
At the high level, though, the shots against and scoring opportunities shoudl show up in Corsi and scoring chances. Bourdon has a -4.8 CorsiRel, meaning the team is 4.8 shot attempts (goals, saves, missed, and blocked) better with him on the bench than with him on the ice, with only Walker, Lilja, and Marshall doing worse. But we don’t know if that’s because of turnovers, his zone starts (he starts in the defensive zone more than all but Pronger, Lilja and Walker), his opposition (which is better than all but Timonen, Coburn, Pronger, and Carle), or what.
In reality, his GAON/60 is unsustainably low. The goalies are stopping a higher pecentage of shots when he’s on the ice than anyone other than Lilja, so it’s unlikely to continue.
While we don’t know how costly his turnovers are going to be, we know that they haven’t cost them yet. Yes, it’s a concern, but my point was that if it’s not a problem yet, why are there calls saying it is a problem? Maybe it’s just in framing – those complaining to mean to say that it will need to be fixed – but the current argument isn’t over down the line, it was over right now.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
True.
Devil’s avocado here, Larry. Isn’t saying his turnovers haven’t contributed negatively yet like saying a player who gets six minors in one game isn’t a problem if the team was able to kill off the minors?
Playing on the PK, or shifting gears to defensive after a turnover, still becomes a problem (tired players, relying too much on a goaltender, etc) for the rest of the game, even if it doesn’t result in a goal immediately.
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I’d say they are different. For one, taking six minors is a substantial and easily measurable negative. Turnovers, you don’t know how costly or how tiring, or where they were, or why they were, or any of the mitigating factors.
A better analogy there would be “saying his horrible Corsi haven’t contributed negatively yet is like saying a player who gets six minors in one game isn’t a problem if the team was able to kill off the minors.” Here, we can tell the puck is in the Flyers end, the other team is getting shots off, and likely scoring chances.
With turnovers, you don’t know where the puck is, if the team is getting shots, or even scoring chances. We also don’t know if the sheer rate of turnovers is inflated due to the team trusting him with the puck more frequently (why Carle has so many turnovers).
But in the second paragraph, you’re right. Turnovers are a bad thing, even if it doesn’t result in a goal immediately. Which is why the team could/should go get a #5 defenseman. This just goes back to my framing point: It’s not a problem yet, though some claim it to be one, but it will become a problem later.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Devil's avocado?
Are we starting a new thing here or did you just have a Damn You Autocorrect moment?
Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.
Sean Couturier and Matt Read for joint Calder Trophy winners!
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates
by Chemistry66 on Feb 10, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a fantastic band name. Or at least an album title.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Or a good name for a restaurant or spicy guacamole…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Now I want some good chips and guac. Talking to you people around lunchtime is dangerous.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I only like guacamole that is prepared for me. I’ve never liked any homemade guac in the history of ever.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
30 Rock reference. Apparently, no one else watches it religiously like I.
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Good article a small depth move is the one to make for the blue line. No need to go all big spender. I don’t like the idea of two rookies on the blueline in the playoffs. I would pull a deal for Bryan Allen I also don’t think he will be too costly to resign. Even if a top 4 defender his lack of flashy point production should keep him under 4 million and could be a nice option depending on what happens in the offseason. IMO we need a steady defensive defensemen and Allen fits that bill. I be willing to part with a second rounder to get him.
The Corsi Rel for Bourdon and Lilja scares me.
Nodl 12G 127GP, Talbot 10G 44GP
I agree on Allen. I’m developing a real liking for the guy.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I agree here too. I wouldn’t want to lose a roster player for him, but I think that’s what he will cost. We can’t do a player for picks though. Aren’t we maxed out on contracts?
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
For a rental, Allen is the player I would love to have.
by Anders Jensen on Feb 10, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Whenever reading your posts I don’t expect any subtleties, so I don’t look for any. I think Don picked up on something that I felt intuitively that I couldn’t express, but as he says, picking nits.
You don’t expect subtleties? Hmmm.
I admit things I don’t want to admit in a way that is purposefully vague, but that I’m able to claim I said it without coming out and saying it bluntly.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve never seen a post that called more strongly for a drexel’d-ing than this one.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
/drexel’d an more /drexel’d?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
by hintzy64 on Feb 10, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Aha!
Often wrong, but never in doubt.
by A Flyers Phamily on Feb 10, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Pat Faulkner and a 4th!
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Feb 10, 2012 9:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If the Flyers go with a rotation of Bourdon, Gustafsson, and Lilja,I’d be fine with that too.
I think I would be too. I can’t decide though. I’d like SOD to come back and anchor the third pair, but even then I’m not sure who I’d sit. Bourdon, probably.
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
SOD and Lilja are almost identical, so I don’t know why you prefer one over the other.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
For winning John LeClair look-alike contests
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
That’s being added to the skills competition next year, right?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Identical in advanced stats over the course of their Flyers time, right? How is SOD doing this year?
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Are they really? OD seemed better to me without stats to back it up.
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
He’s being used in the offensive zone a lot more and is slightly below average in CorsiRel, whereas Lilja is used in the defensive zone and is getting crushed.
I’m not sure how you compare them.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 10, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed, I like those suggestions. I’m a lot more comfortable with the idea of making a small upgrade at #5 defenseman instead of looking for a huge trade to land somebody like Weber/Suter/Gleason/etc. Our top 4 is pretty respectable, so I think giving up a big piece of our forward depth would be overkill. A smaller trade to add depth on the 3rd pairing sounds reasonable.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Let’s pull that thread a little further. Combing Geoff’s article with TCL’s article on needing more physical presence in front of the net (which I agree with, especially after watching Toronto’s 2nd (I think?) goal last night): which of Geoff’s three proposed defensemen would help the most at clearing the crease?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I agree with Geoff that Bryan Allen would probably be the highest talent upgrade, but I also think he will be the most expensive to get and to keep. I would fear overpaying both Carolina and Allen himself to resign (assuming the Flyers would like to keep him next season).
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I think Bryan Allen wouldnt be that hard to keep unless he demands top money.
by Anders Jensen on Feb 10, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, so he’s the best talent upgrade, but does he fit the bill of a “physical presence to clear in front of our net”? That’s my question. Who fits that specific need the best?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
And maybe it’s the same answer. I saw mention of Corsi and such for those three guys earlier, but that doesn’t capture physical play.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Wait, you're not suggesting we use our...eyes?!?! are you?
G, the second coming of Foppa.
Embrace the Jagr.*
by JerseyDriver on Feb 10, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Just heard a Chris Pronger AT&T commercial on WMMR…God I miss him.
by lava96 on Feb 10, 2012 7:55 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Just for the record....
…….Lupul is still a douche.
That is all. :)
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
Remember when the Rangers signed Gomez and Drury LOL to the Rangers. This 1st place thing is a fluke.
Nodl 12G 127GP, Talbot 10G 44GP
Yes…and there was a possibility one of the 3 (Briere, Gomez, and Drury) would be a Flyer. Homer selected Briere…clearly the better choice.
A Flyers fan for so long I remember when a Flyers Goalie (Bruce Gamble) had a heart attack DURING a game...and continued playing!
"...bouncing puck in the slot...LOOSE IN FRONT...McDuffy...bouncing PUCK...SCOOOOOOOORE!!!!" - Gene Hart
Why mock? I pity da’ fool!
A Flyers fan for so long I remember when a Flyers Goalie (Bruce Gamble) had a heart attack DURING a game...and continued playing!
"...bouncing puck in the slot...LOOSE IN FRONT...McDuffy...bouncing PUCK...SCOOOOOOOORE!!!!" - Gene Hart
I don’t. Not when he’s making $7.36MM against the cap.
by mattsotheran on Feb 10, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
So Leighton would have been subject to re-entry waivers, even as an emergency call-up? That’s what that Panotch article says.
Did he ever finish his game recap?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Yes, that’s correct. It’s not what the CBA seems to say, but I got confirmation on it from Anonymous Source.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Well that sucks. What’s the point of emergency call-ups then? It’s an emergency, that means you need them now, not waiting for the waiver period. Stupid.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
I asked DG exactly that. Her list of reasons to make it an emergency call-up (DG, I’m pretty sure you won’t mind me sharing your email; apologies in advance if I’m wrong about that):
For a goaltender, it would allow them to use the 48-hour goaltender exemption to the 23-man roster limit, which they can do twice per year. It lets you carry 24 players for 48 hours in a goaltending emergency.
Otherwise, there’s a limit after the trade deadline that you can only make 4 call-ups that aren’t designated as emergency conditions, and it’s a hard limit.
The only thing is that it is possible, but unconfirmed, that according to the wording of 13.5.i, the days they spend on an NHL roster due to emergency conditions do not count toward the 30 cumulative days needed for their waivers to expire.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
No worries.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 10, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
The CBA really doesn’t even matter, does it?
Visit the BSH Store :: Get us on Twitter :: facebook, too!
Broad Street Hockey - Covering the Philadelphia Flyers. Have you accepted Ilya Bryzgalov as your savior?
by Travis Hughes on Feb 10, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
It’s more what you’d call “guidelines” than actual rules.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Parlay!
Often wrong, but never in doubt.
by A Flyers Phamily on Feb 10, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
They are not rules, merely suggestions. Like 12-step programs.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Feb 10, 2012 11:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am the law!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJiYrRcfQo
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
Trying to defend the establishment, for no particular reason:
There’s a lot of details that might be hard to foresee and hammer out in advance. I’d rather they get the thing in place and correct oversights later than hold it up for a month trying to think through every possible scenario.
I’d prefer that they make those corrections public, but most of the hockey universe doesn’t care about this crap. I also hope that next time around, they’ll use the more precise language that was hammered out in various side agreements, but I won’t be shocked if they basically copy/paste the same shabby sections over again.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Yep. I’d have said correct, but you’d likely find my use of the word to be incorrect and feel compelled to correct me.
You could have said I was technically correct. That’s the very best kind of correct.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
Completely agreed.
For those who haven’t ever braved the document, one of the attachments at the end (on page 442 of the PDF file) is a letter confirming that both sides agree to “clean up” inconsistencies in the document by mutual agreement:
This letter will confirm our agreement that the Parties will work diligently to “clean up” the transaction documents by correcting cross-references among and within Articles of the CBA, correcting any typographical errors, and otherwise making any such similar non-substantive changes to the transact ion documents. In any event, both Parties will have to agree to any such or other changes, and, failing to do so, the document will remain “as is.”No matter how much we study it, we can only know about the clean up items that have become public in the past, or do our best to obtain comments. Eric was able to obtain comment to clear this one up yesterday, but it seems that much of the hockey world has been confused by this one for a while.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 10, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
It pains me that in some ways at least, it’s true.
Warning: Arguing the NHL CBA with me could be hazardous to your mental health. Proceed at your own risk.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 10, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, what an original idea on that Clarkson site.
I saw that Jets goal, since I was at the bar and both that game and ours were on. Obviously that writer and I were seeing it through different colored glasses. He saw a slapshot that Vokoun should have stopped. I saw a dump-in that tipped off a defender’s stick, started tumbling and bouncing like mad, and was a screwball that he didn’t have a chance against.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
But they’ll never take our freedom?
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Damn right!
And Clarkson isn’t Hartnell, not by a longshot.
by hebrew hammer on Feb 10, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
the Scott Hartnell Hat-trick
fall
score
fight
all in one shift
-tim
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood. ~ Daniel H. Burnham
Actually the proper name is the Hart-Trick.
Score
Fall
Take a stupid penalty.
;)
My teams are the Flyers, Phillies and the Steelers. Deal with it.
by LegionofDoom on Feb 10, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
You mean refs been stupid, blind, incompetent and call that little tap a slashing?
by Anders Jensen on Feb 10, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I should like to point out to all the “youngins” here that Kate Smith never, ever talked like that. Never. What a sad state of humanity.
At least Geoff’s links lead to the discovery of Derek Settlemyre’s nickname, Johnson & Wales University, and that Bevilacqua’s death may have been by other than natural causes in a Godfather 3 sort of way.
Panotch makes me facepalm again
sorry folks. that is NOT Bryz down at the far end …he remains out. that is Bacashihua
Madly in love with Jaromir Jagr's brilliant smile and epic goal salute.
Sean Couturier and Matt Read for joint Calder Trophy winners!
Ian Laperriere (EE-an luh-PAIR-ee-YAIR), proper noun. Definition: Bad-assery on skates
If he’s got Norovirus, I hope he’s at a REALLY far end. Stay away!
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
College doubleheader tonight on NBCSN:
7:30 EST Boston College @ Vermont
10:00 EST Minnesota @ Denver
Friday Night College Hockey Thread?
If I was around, I would actually join it.
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
Oh, I forgot to mention that you likely would have enjoyed the St. Cloud games last weekend. They have a freshman, Garrett Milan, 5’6"/ 160 lbs, who has quite the Napolean complex. He took a boarding penalty in the second game, then sprinted to the box to avoid a physical confrontation. I thought it was funny.
I’m game though i might be watching one of three movies.
Thinking of Redboxing Cars 2, Greatest Movie Ever Sold and/or Good Old Fashioned Orgy.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Feb 10, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
The only time I watch amateur sports is in the Olympics or the NCAA tourney (though admittedly not much of the latter)
I don’t even watch college baseball. And rarely do i take in an Iron Pigs game.
Off-topic, on crowdsourced moviemaking
At Starwarsuncut they sliced the movie into 15-second clips. Someone would claim a clip, re-shoot it and then send it back for re-assembly. The video in the middle of the page is today’s scene.
It’s great if you love the movie or human creativity. I missed 95% of the references and still laughed a lot. Can’t find anything about hockey but I’m sure there’s something, and I think a lot of the BSH crowd will enjoy it. It’s worth 4:30 of your time.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Feb 10, 2012 1:05 PM EST reply actions
Jeremy Roenick as owner of the Coyotes
Apparently, JR is considering this, and apparently the source is our favorite loquacious analyst himself.
Now, I think this is the best option for all, if indeed Phoenix is to keep the team (I’m not thrilled with the Reinsdorf option, for sure). Of course, there will be suggestions that JR is playing the role of a poor man’s Mario. I’m OK with that. Of course, if JR actually owned the team, who would prevent his comeback, a la Mario?
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Dead in here today.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
This place is dead anyways. Let’s roll.
Ecstatic to be joing the Florida Panthers Organization!! Awesome day... Truly a dream come true.
- @ScottieUpshall (July 1, 2011 2:15pm EST)
Fuck it. Let’s go bowling/
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
There is hardly anywhere left to go bowling. There used to be an alley in every neighborhood now all I can think of is Facenda Whitaker in East Norriton.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
We have Limerick Bowl here. It’s decent.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Near the airport, that’s right. They do the bowling in the dark thing with the glow pins, etc.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
Not sure if anyone will see this
But apparently interest in Carter has been low. One offer, and it was a lowball offer.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 10, 2012 8:14 PM EST reply actions
I wonder just what goes on in Ukrainian youth hockey:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AvOqiop9V6iS45KGJ0wT0fl7vLYF?slug=ap-ukrainiancoachcharged
Mtitanic. Are u watching the college games? Vermont officially came unglued. Good action regardless.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
My son is playing a video game, so I’m listening to the Phantoms game right now. I intend to watch the MN/ Denver game later.
That will probably be a better game but there is a lot of local boys on Vermont so I wanted to catch as much as I could. BC has too much talent for Vermont to keep up.
Commenter formerly known as M from Pdaddy, but still just Call Me "M"!
DISCLAIMER: Information written above may not be entirely factual nor provable with the use of complex statistics. But it may induce thought, humor and possibly laughter.
The third one wasn’t me, hat-tricks are nice but I’m just happy we got the W.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Feb 10, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
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