Trade! Philadelphia Flyers acquire Nicklas Grossman from Dallas Stars for two picks
by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2012 6:42 PM EST
in Philadelphia Flyers News
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Hey, you guys! A trade! For a defenseman!
The Flyers have acquired defenseman Nicklas Grossman from the Dallas Stars in exchange for a second round pick in the 2012 NHL draft and a third round pick in the 2013 draft.
Those picks came to town via the Mike Richards and Darroll Powe trades in June, so the Flyers aren't giving up their own picks here. They still hold a second round pick this summer via the Florida Panthers, thanks to the Kris Versteeg trade, and they still hold their own third round pick in 2013.
But who cares about that: Who the hell is Nicklas Grossman? He's a big defensive defenseman, weighing in at 6'4", 240 pounds, and a cap hit of just $1.65 million. That's pretty sweet. He'll be a UFA in July. Yes, he can kill penalties, and if I have to hear the "clear the porch" phrase one more time...
He's not too physical a player despite that size and he's had some problems when it comes to turnovers, according to some insight from the guys over at Defending Big D. But he's positionally sound and can log a lot of minutes, so that's certainly a plus for a blue line that could really use that sort of piece right now.
He played on Dallas' top pairing with Stephane Robidas last season. He faced extremely difficult competition last season -- a Corsi Rel QoC that ranked fifth in the NHL -- and started just 46 percent of his shifts in the offensive end of the ice, yet was able to get a virtual draw with a Corsi Rel of minus-2.
He's not faced as solid of competition this season and has had some rough results with a Corsi Rel of minus-15.5, which could be a concern considering he's been bumped down to the second pair. It could also be that his defensive partner, Trevor Daley, was dragging him down in Dallas this season. The numbers might lead us to believe that whoever he winds up playing with in Philadelphia will have a great deal to do with his success.
Will that be Andrej Meszaros or Matt Carle? That probably depends on if you're planning on keeping Marc-Andre Bourdon in the mix, or if you're planning on keeping Andreas Lilja around. We'll see what Peter Laviolette decides to do come Saturday when Grossman plays his first game as a Flyer.
(Oh, and hintzy, you called it.)
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Congrats hintzy the small cap means something else might be in the works. What is your next prediction?
Nodl 12G 127GP, Talbot 10G 44GP
by chrislanci on Feb 16, 2012 6:55 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
As for the small cap, that’s why Grossman caught my eye. We didn’t have to clear cap space to get him. Didn’t have to give anyone up.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Come on man. Tell us what's next.
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Feb 17, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I think that might be it for us. But there’s still time and a few games before the deadline, so it could depend on how those go. Especially our game against Pittsburgh on Saturday.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Or, to put it simply...
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
it’s still early.
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by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2012 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
I like the addition. According to Dallas fans, he plays sound positional defense and blocks shots. He’s also good on the PK. Despite the size, he’s not really a hitter (to put it mildly). And he’s having turnover problems this year. They think he has stopped improving — he’s only 27 — and aren’t terribly upset to see him go. Plus, he was going to be UFA, so getting a 2nd and a 3rd from us is more than they expected. He’s noted as not being fast but fast enough. I’m looking forward to seeing him on the ice.
I think the biggest issue the Flyers defense has been recovering when being out of position, hopefully having a sound positional player on the 1st and 2nd defensive pairing could sort out some of our woes.
I still think something else is in the works. Something where we all jump in joy for who we got, but cry for who we lose.
Knuble and a late pick for Shelley and Harry Z.
"Because wives and girlfriends aren’t on the road."
by BannedStreetBully on Feb 16, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
The Ice girls should sign Shelley as the t-shirt cannon guy and get his Playmate wife to be a MILF skater.
"Because wives and girlfriends aren’t on the road."
by BannedStreetBully on Feb 16, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
Grossman has had some issues this season but one thing is for certain, Trevor Daley wasn’t dragging him down. Daley has been perhaps the best d-man for Dallas this season and it only when Daley has played with Grossman did the big guy actually play decently.
Grossman was paired with Fistric a few games back and got benched because of turnovers.
If he’s with a solid partner who can take care of the puck, he’ll be a great fit.
Defending Big D- Dallas Stars news & analysis
@brandonworley - Follow me on Twitter!!
To what would you attribute the drop off?
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by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Hitting a plateau, could also be the change in defensive system this season to the zone. I also think it has to do with the fact he was protected for a few seasons playing with Robidas.
Defending Big D- Dallas Stars news & analysis
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by Brandon Worley on Feb 16, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
The Flyers overpay for a declining rental?
I’m shocked.
"Because wives and girlfriends aren’t on the road."
by BannedStreetBully on Feb 16, 2012 7:01 PM EST reply actions
he’s only 27…
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by Travis Hughes on Feb 16, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not suggesting his decline is age-related, merely that his decline exists.
"Because wives and girlfriends aren’t on the road."
by BannedStreetBully on Feb 16, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully it’s just a bump in the road.
I think he’s a career middle-pair guy with good PK ability.
Defending Big D- Dallas Stars news & analysis
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by Brandon Worley on Feb 16, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Care to elaborate? My position is the Flyers have solid D and promising prospects on the 3rd line. Paying anything for a moderate question mark seems silly.
"Because wives and girlfriends aren’t on the road."
by BannedStreetBully on Feb 16, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure they have prospects two of them. Guess what they aren’t ready either. Have you watched Bourdon lately??? Turn over machine. This guy is not a question mark, he is a second pairing defensemen with size that can skate ok. Second pairing D don’t grow on trees. We didn’t give up much to get him and he is a vast improvement.
.
Putting it another way, he was put on the 2nd pair, and couldn’t hold up without a #1 supporting him.
Your argument puzzles me. You seem to mock the fact that we’ve got only “two” prospects, yet still support giving away the main route to secure [b]more[/b] prospects.
"Because wives and girlfriends aren’t on the road."
by BannedStreetBully on Feb 16, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Look at one of our “prospects” Bourdon, he was playing in the ECHL last year. He is not great and he is showing it of late.
.
You aren’t responding to the crux of his point.
If you’re going to criticize the team for not having more – and now, not having good – prospects and praise them for trading draft picks, you’ll have to understand the confusion.
If you want prospects, why do you approve of trading draft picks?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Because the Flyers are the worst team in HISTORY at drafting Dmen. I would rather trade for them, then wait for them to never come thru our farm system. Or when they do finally come thru they suck.
.
Flyers draft picks among defensemen:
Bourdon, Sbisa, Picard, Pitkanen, Seidenberg, Woywitka
Not a bad group right there. Not a bad group at all. How many times have they drafted a defenseman in the first three rounds? Bertilsson, Marshall, Ratchuk, Bodrov, and Bartulis.
In the last decade, the Flyers have drafted NHL defensemen at least 5 times out of 11 top-3 picks. More than that if you count Bourdon and/or Bartulis as NHL defensemen.
That’s the worst team in HISTORY? I think you’re mistaken.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pitkanen was a #4 overall though right?
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 16, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Yup. Seidenberg was a 6th round pick, so I think that kind of balances out.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. I think the Flyers lack the patience to deal with defensemen in the farm system. We’d much rather acquire a slightly-closer-to-prime guy like Braydon Coburn or Matt Carle or a veteran guy like Pronger/Timonen via trade.
We’re a lot more inclined towards development with the forwards that we’ve drafted (Gagne, Richards, Carter, Giroux etc.) unless we’re absolutely overstocked at forward (Sharp) or they went crazy (Downie).
Given that, I wouldn’t have high hopes for the defenseman we could’ve drafted with those two picks.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 16, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
or if they’re Nodl.
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 16, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
I was being sarcastic. I do think you know that the Flyers are not great with developing defensemen. No I don’t count Bartulis and I am not ready to say Bourdon is a full time NHLer.
.
You mean hyperbolic?
If you were being sarcastic, you’ve still not answered the question despite attempting to three times.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s setting the bar low.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
l self depricating…..your cool in my book geoff…if that really means anything
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
"I got a crosscheck to the face and lost a bunch of teeth. You battle through it. That’s the way hockey players are made." - Claude Giroux
We know you get testy around this time
But that’s no excuse to play with your food : ]
by j reed on Feb 16, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
still have the 1st rounder and hopefully the panthers 2nd
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
"I got a crosscheck to the face and lost a bunch of teeth. You battle through it. That’s the way hockey players are made." - Claude Giroux
I’m willing to let the youth grow because I don’t think our chances are good this year. One rent-a-meh isn’t gonna steal us any crucial games
unless he goes all unexpected unseen talent leino/read of defensmen
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
"I got a crosscheck to the face and lost a bunch of teeth. You battle through it. That’s the way hockey players are made." - Claude Giroux
Indeed. This is like signing a marginal 7th inning reliever when you have decent enough homegrown stuff on the farm.
This guy is better than any of our homegrown stuff.
Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."
YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOVE the price, Homer!!! Great job! This guy is a horse in size!
In no way am I implying whether it was a good price or bad, but I’m simply curious what you were expecting if you “LOVE the price”.
In other words, if this is amazing, would would have garnered a “meh, that’s fair”?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
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by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 16, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Geoff. I love it because there’s no 1st-rounders in there. I would’ve ate my hat if Homer shipped out another #1. That’s it.
by TheRealBoyer on Feb 17, 2012 7:15 AM EST up reply actions
I like the picture.
“I told him I was fifth in faceoffs. HAHAHAHAAHA!!!!”
/s, more often than not
by flyersfaninchicago on Feb 16, 2012 7:11 PM EST reply actions
So does anyone else hope this isn’t the only trade we make? It’s a start but the defense isn’t gonna be fixed by a middle pair defenseman who apparently isn’t physical. One of our problems is that our defense lacks physicality around the net, and this apparently is probably not going to be fixed by the acquisition of Grossman.
I hope it’s over. They aren’t going to become a cup favorite via any foreseeable deadline deal.
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
by DLJr on Feb 16, 2012 7:58 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
bryz for suter, briere for nash……holmgren for sainthood?
Beets,Bears,Battlestar Galactica.
MICHAEL!
Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.
"I got a crosscheck to the face and lost a bunch of teeth. You battle through it. That’s the way hockey players are made." - Claude Giroux
Which leaves us with a goalie tandem of Bob and Yappy Dog?
Bob.
by The Dark on Feb 17, 2012 9:08 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I must say – I like the secondary permutation of the nickname.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Feb 17, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Overpayment, but a guy who addresses the team’s current needs without mortgaging major pieces (i.e. not trading our forward corp). I’m fairly satisfied with the trade
Simon Gagne AND Mike Richards may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home but, at the end of the day, they will both always be Philadelphia Flyers.
One day Sean Couturier will win the Conn Smythe. You heard it here first.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Feb 16, 2012 7:46 PM EST reply actions
Seconded.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Feb 16, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t speak to whether it was overpayment or a fair price, I’m just not a good judge of the relative value of players vs picks, but I fully agree with the rest. Meets current needs without giving up depth from the current roster, so I’m happy.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
"I think there is virtue in pissing off idiots." - Fehr and Balanced
Meh
being obnoxious and self righteous while ignoring the point since 9/29/11
by DLJr on Feb 16, 2012 7:56 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
The obvious follow up question is what are the chances we actually retain him for next year? And, similarly, might this mean the end of Matt Carle’s stay in Philly?
Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren
i highly doubt this has anything at all to do with matt carle in any way shape or form
"Women should have three breasts - two in front and one in the back for dancing." -Al Bundy
If they spend money on Grossman, it just means less money for Carle. If the cap actually does go down next year, it might be a “pick 1 defensmen” situation.
Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren
by philiafan14364 on Feb 16, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
This assumes that we even want to retain him next season. He may end up being awful.
I don’t think he will be and if he was willing to take a similar contract (around a $1.5 mil cap hit) to play on the 3rd pairing, I’d say go for it. It’s not a big deal either way.
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by Mitchell Green on Feb 16, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
I really am kind of confused where this “Overpayment” talk comes from. Put it this way. He makes less than Timmo, Carle, Coburn, and Mez. For a 2nd pairing defenseman. This is a very manageable salary, so to say otherwise is kind of silly. It’s a great depth move by Homer. The guy is a big body, even if he “doesn’t play physical.” This is a great move. Give Homer credit.
If he were signed at this price for next year, I’d 100% agree with you.
But he’s not; that budget cap hit is just for this year. And since they have tons of room under Pronger’s LTIR exception, that doesn’t matter so much — it means they could add another rental if they wanted to, but at this point in the season cap hit of a rental player just isn’t a big factor.
The “overpayment” talk isn’t about his cap hit; it’s about the draft picks. A second and a third round pick is a lot to give up for 25 games of a middling defenseman who’s having a bad year.
With that being said, I don’t mind the deal. I think it’s a clear overpayment from a rational value standpoint, but like many fans, emotionally I care more about having a legitimate (small, to be sure, but legitimate) chance at the Cup this year than about what the second and third round picks might turn into some day.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
by Eric T. on Feb 16, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Picks? What are these ‘picks’ you speak of here? Last season was an aberration – Holmgren is regressing to the mean, which ‘means’ having one or two picks a year at most.
Maxime Talbot - in the Orange and Black ... better than chocolate and peanut butter!
by MaximumTalbot on Feb 16, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
My roommate’s (who’s a Sharks fan) expert opinion is, and I quote, “he’s solid, good depth guy”. So there you have it.
Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren
Im pretty neutral here. Happy we got a defenseman without giving up any of our current youth, but i wont be comfortable until the deadline passes.
by mantis toboggan on Feb 16, 2012 8:19 PM EST via Android app reply actions
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