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Do goaltenders really get in a rhythm?

Anyone familiar with Bryz will tell you that he needs consecutive starts over a sustained period to find his rhythm.

This refrain has been heard many times from many corners this season. It's been said by beat writers, columnists, and fans; it's been said of Ilya Bryzgalov in particular and of goalies in general.

But that doesn't make it true. Join us after the jump as we once again put memory to the test of objective evidence.

Star-divide

Why would such an opinion be so widespread if it weren't true? This could arise because of a struggle to distinguish between correlation and causation -- a goalie who plays poorly for a stretch won't get many consecutive starts, while a goalie who is playing very well might get put back out there again and again.

Our memories then assign a causality that may or may not be there; we start to believe that goalies need to play a lot of games in a row to perform well. But there's a difference between "goalies have done well in the stretches where they played a lot of games" and "a coach should play a goalie in a lot of games because then he will play well."

The latter statement might be true, but it also might just be simple superstition. Let's put it to the test.

The question isn't whether the goalie's average performance over a long streak is better; the answer to that will probably be yes, because he only gets to have a long streak if he started off hot. What we really want to know is whether his fifth -- or eighth, or tenth -- straight appearance is better on average than his average first or second appearance.

To answer that, we can take all of Bryzgalov's games since the start of the '08-09 season (his first full year in Phoenix) and look at how he did in his first appearance after a game off, or in his second straight appearance, or his third, and so on. That data can be compiled into a plot of save percentage versus consecutive appearances:

Bryz_streak_medium

In fact, we see just the opposite. Since '08-09, Bryzgalov has had 48 appearances that followed a game he didn't play in, and in those games he posted a save percentage of 0.914. In the 40 occasions where he was given a second straight start, he did a little better in the second game, at .921. But from there it got decidedly worse; he had 114 appearances between games 3 and 8 of a consecutive games streak and had a 0.908 save percentage over those games.

Bryzgalov did perform particularly well in games 9 and 10, but at that point the sample size is quite small, as he had only seven ten-game streaks over this ~300-game span. Reasonable people can look at this data and conclude different things. I personally see that he underperformed in games 3-8 of the streaks (where we have a reasonable amount of data) and in games 14-18 and find it hard to believe that a switch turns on in game 9 and off in game 13. But with the small sample size, we can't say for sure, so let's look at some other goalies to build up the data a little.

We'll add in the numbers for Henrik Lundqvist and Pekka Rinne, two consensus elite goalies whose careers are at a similar stage to Bryzgalov's. That gives us the following chart:

Goalie_streaks_medium

Each goalie shows a similar pattern: over the first nine games or so, there is a general downward trend, and beyond that there are so few games that the data gets pretty scattershot. When they are combined, the downward trend over the early part of the streak becomes very clear, and it becomes hard to argue that there is any real benefit to extending the streak further.

Let's look at one more goalie. Miikka Kiprusoff has played in 70+ games every year since the lockout, and is by far the leader in games played over this span. If any goalie has a talent for playing lots of games in a row, it would be him.

Kiprusoff_streak_medium

Unlike the other goalies who appeared to decline somewhat with consecutive appearances, Kiprusoff's performance remains essentially unchanged. As with most goaltender studies, this may be a sample size limitation rather than a true talent, but what he has shown so far is not a tendency to get better with use; it is an unusual tendency to avoid getting worse from fatigue.

There is no evidence whatsoever that a lot of consecutive games will help a goalie get in a rhythm. If a goalie is struggling, giving him lots of starts in a row won't fix that -- it'll just give him lots of starts while he's struggling, and if he doesn't have Kiprusoff's rare durability, the added fatigue will make his job harder.

Bibliography: Some coaches who go with the hot hand will look brilliant through random luck; goaltenders also do not need to see frequent shots to get in a rhythm during a game.

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Interesting observations. You can’t really argue with objective data.

The data I’m interested in, knowing now what has been represented above, is how does the time in between games affect a goalie’s save percentage? Like playing consecutively, but on back to back days (which is not too common). Or, playing ~5 games in a row but having 2-3 days off between each game.

So I get that what we’re seeing here suggests that after 3+ games in a row started, SV% trends slightly downward. Now, how does time in between games correlate to a goalie’s save percentage. In a world where we’d use statistics to choose to to sit/start on a game by game basis, this knowledge could come in handy.

Sorry if I was redundant on any of these points. Converting my understanding of statistics into words is a learning experience for myself at times.

Jagr shoots, Jagr scores!!!!!!

by Vinny A on Feb 21, 2012 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, I’m interested in looking at that, but I’m still trying to figure out how to work through the data.

It’s pretty easy for the data to get binned into a ton of tiny little categories — 4 games in 7 days should be separate from 3 games in 7 days or from 4 games in 8 days, right? So I could pull league-wide stats to try to get enough info in each of those little bins, but it’ll probably still be messy to draw conclusions from.

I’m open to suggestions.

by Eric T. on Feb 21, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Thinking about it more, it seems like it would make more sense to attempt to plot average save percentage vs time in between games. Consecutive games played seems like it matters less this way, and maybe would show a correlation that could include backup goalies, but that may be too involved in gathering the numbers.

Basically it seems what we’d want to take home from this type of data is, “What is the average save percentage when the goalie has 0 days off between games, 1 day off, 2 days off, etc?”

Don’t know if it’s worth the time investment or not, but perhaps something to consider.

Jagr shoots, Jagr scores!!!!!!

by Vinny A on Feb 21, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that makes sense.

But the common refrain isn’t “goalie X needs to start within two days to get in a groove”; it’s “goalie X needs a bunch of starts in a row to get in a groove.” I’m pretty convinced that’s wrong, but maybe the relationship with time between starts will be more meaningful.

by Eric T. on Feb 21, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Good read. Glad to see some statistical evidence behind it. You hear this claim where the more they play, the better they get, when in most cases this is not true.

Gus Supporter.

by sa cyred on Feb 21, 2012 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, I’m pretty convinced it’s “the better they are, the more they play” and not “the more they play, the better they are.”

by Eric T. on Feb 21, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Bibliography: Some coaches who go with the hot hand will look brilliant through random luck; goaltenders also do not need to see frequent shots to get in a rhythm during a game.

This interests me more than the original topic at hand (no offense, Eric; good article and I had been wondering about that too), if only because I know that as a whole goalies have a higher save percentage in games where they face a lot of shots.

by everybodyhitswoohoo on Feb 21, 2012 3:54 PM EST reply actions  

The reason they often have higher save percentages in games facing alot of shots is that if they only face 20 shots and let in 2 goals vs 30 shots, 2 goals etc. With few shots on goal, save percentage can fall of really fast when letting in a goal.

by Anders Jensen on Feb 21, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, yeah, but in theory, facing less shots should lead to less goals against, and vice-versa.

by everybodyhitswoohoo on Feb 21, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

then you have to factor in quality of shots as well, and good luck collecting that data

"Women should have three breasts - two in front and one in the back for dancing." -Al Bundy

by HankMonahan on Feb 21, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s always a relief when these debunkings don’t affect any of my sacred cows. Or scared cows.

Nice work.

/s, more often than not

by flyersfaninchicago on Feb 21, 2012 4:26 PM EST reply actions  

Eric T – Out of pure curiosity, can you run the same analysis on Boucher, Leighton, Nitty and Emory? I guess use their whole career to get enough data points. Boucher’s should be rather interesting, he has alot of games, and he has that 6 shut out game streak with PHX (should you take that out those because they would be outliers?).

by NickFotiu4HOF on Feb 21, 2012 4:32 PM EST reply actions  

I could, but it’d be more work than this was and I think it’d tell us less.

Since those guys all changed teams a bunch of times, it means pulling the schedules of a million different teams, which is a pain. And since most of these guys won’t have gotten very many starts in a row very many times, the data will probably be pretty thin. I mean, yeah, Boucher’s played a lot of games, but 45 his is career high for a season so I doubt he has a lot of 6-game streaks.

So unless there’s something in particular that makes those guys appealing, I’m not inclined to do it right now. But I’m open to being talked into it if there’s a particularly strong reason.

by Eric T. on Feb 21, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting how the workhorse Kipper did. I thought of two things reading through this.

(1) How about another true workhorse, Mr. Martin Brodeur?

(2) I noticed that for the non-Kirpusoff tenders you measured, there seems to be a 2-3 game period before the sv% drops off a bit. So I thought, hey, for most goalies, 2 games on, one game off, and no back-to-backs! And then I remembered Minnesota some years back when Roloson and Fernandez played sort of a rotation like platooned outfielders in baseball. And they seemed both to be successful (but I didn’t look up the numbers).

Wonder how that Minnesota rotation could be evaluated in this context? Or if you think it’d be useful in re-inforcing that sort of 2-3 game thing. Small sample size from one season, and all.

by Georgia_Flyer on Feb 21, 2012 4:44 PM EST reply actions  

Too many words, didn’t read.

by mattsotheran on Feb 21, 2012 4:51 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

too many notes

/Emperor Joseph’d

/s, more often than not

by flyersfaninchicago on Feb 21, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Too many words, didn’t read.

Yeah, because reading is hard. There’s lots of words and all those words have letters and stuff and it hurts my head. So yeah, I didn’t read it either.

Moron.

by alaskalovestheflyers on Feb 21, 2012 5:05 PM EST reply actions  

goalie-consecutive-starts-sorry-no-url-win-today

Eric T., you are the man.

Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Read, Rinaldo and Sestito Flyercrushes until his return

by Cillo stache on Feb 21, 2012 5:08 PM EST reply actions  

I like how you don’t give me any credit for actually going through and finding the 19-game streak, sending you an excel sheet of Bryz’s 10-11 season, and giving you this idea.

:) Thanks for doing it so I didn’t have to fuck it up, Eric.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 21, 2012 5:16 PM EST reply actions  

Hahaha. Sorry. But every time I give you credit, you tell me I don’t have to. I guess I got confused.

But yeah, peoples: Geoff’s the one who started down this road. I dug up this data to support his article, then he got busy so I wrote it myself.

by Eric T. on Feb 21, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Eric, have you learned nothing in your time here? Passive-aggressive robot is passive-aggressive.

Bob.

by The Dark on Feb 21, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Understood. I didn’t really want to do it anyway, nor do I want credit. I just wanted to give you a hard time. I spent maybe 45 minutes on it. You spent well over that.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 22, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I would think this article rebutted Randy Miller well, but I’m pretty sure you can make numbers agree with anything you want.

Keeping alive the old Vaudeville joke, "I'd rather be dead than play Philadelphia."

by Snevik on Feb 21, 2012 5:27 PM EST reply actions  

Are you sure thats not a Snorlax in the picture?

by mtitanic on Feb 21, 2012 5:38 PM EST reply actions  

quick play the pokeflute!

And all I've done for want of wit, To mem'ry now I can't recall.
So fill to me the parting glass, Good night and joy be with you all.

by PyropenguinX on Feb 21, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Star Bellied Sneetch, actually

Following Dan Carcillo where ever he may go
Read, Rinaldo and Sestito Flyercrushes until his return

by Cillo stache on Feb 21, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Well done.

Stats nerd appreciates good stats.

We'll miss you Belak...

Go Predators!

by Poiju on Feb 21, 2012 7:35 PM EST reply actions  

Well done.

Eric T. is boss.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Feb 21, 2012 11:34 PM EST reply actions  


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