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Defining the performance of NHL lines: Flyers Defensemen (part 5)

In Part 1, I looked to define the average 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th line forward based on performance.

In part 2 and part 3, I used the data from part 1 to look at the performance of our Flyers forwards.

In part 4, looked to define the average 1st, 2nd, and 3rd pair defensemen based on performance.

In part 5, I am going to take a closer look at our own Flyers D-man and see how the defensemen performed this past season.

For reference, i will re-paste the important charts from part 4 (for more info on the below charts take a look at Part 4) (Take a look at parts 1-3 on forwards if you haven't already)

Defensive pair players avg GP TOI/60 even strength Max minutes per game Min minutes per game Rel Corsi / 60 min Corsi On / 60 min Rel Corsi QOC Corsi QOC On ice SH % On ice SV% PDO GF/60 GA/60 Rel GF/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is a good) GD/60 Rel GD/60 O zone start %
1st pair 352 71.74147727 17.48838593 21.49 16.47 0.68761384 0.691795348 0.715717521 0.448747114 8.39795733 0.916580519 1000.560092 2.502115948 2.445598587 0.154972491 0.087696219 0.056517361 0.067276271 49.08908723
2nd pair 418 60.50956938 15.62084332 16.47 14.61 -0.963722073 -0.809065039 0.402220131 0.201651636 8.323145421 0.917916874 1001.148328 2.413527844 2.403049431 0.019958403 -0.015137789 0.010478413 0.035096192 49.51587898
3rd pair 742 34.02830189 12.71675314 14.61 0.75 -1.567546742 -1.337033594 -0.351731758 -0.387606206 7.838371554 0.919147322 997.5310377 2.213804245 2.343676275 -0.277210131 -0.105208568 -0.129872031 -0.172001563 51.7430893

Defensive pair players avg GP TOI/60 even strength Rel Corsi / 60 min Corsi On / 60 min Rel Corsi QOC Corsi QOC On ice SH % On ice SV% PDO GF/60 GA/60 Rel GF/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is a good) GD/60 Rel GD/60 O zone start %
1st pair 1 115 73.3826087 17.68304657 8.429150471 6.217541377 0.611658744 0.290742993 8.503792175 0.914946432 999.984354 2.693878322 2.425696704 0.428138127 0.103061475 0.268181618 0.325076652 51.58772029
1st pair 2 121 69.80991736 17.50151178 0.795163001 0.845449839 0.699993129 0.475354498 8.474577684 0.916350382 1001.096159 2.51672013 2.450971274 0.161357518 0.066628071 0.065748857 0.094729446 49.29758871
1st pair 3 116 72.12931034 17.27879885 -7.413193895 -5.169014674 0.839206568 0.584631288 8.210364396 0.918502558 1000.606202 2.289244556 2.460647384 -0.13351883 0.093379909 -0.171402828 -0.226898738 46.29678463
2nd pair 1 138 61.02173913 15.66942525 6.761671205 4.757114474 0.217235005 0.038209389 8.345848698 0.914759723 998.2182096 2.552742004 2.4026877 0.250820874 0.006176033 0.150054304 0.244644842 52.15612386
2nd pair 2 133 63.54887218 15.57248462 -0.868147939 -0.997679749 0.316305312 0.093411316 8.348373995 0.918849046 1002.332786 2.402851146 2.375499397 -0.035912929 -0.024769878 0.027351749 -0.011143052 49.68160091
2nd pair 3 147 57.27891156 15.6207981 -8.809725302 -6.204489098 0.673777751 0.473937784 8.275122636 0.92015141 1002.902636 2.284547856 2.430981534 -0.155740031 -0.026881708 -0.146433678 -0.128858323 46.70126329
3rd pair 1 285 29.55087719 12.82657801 7.118500577 3.83672941 -0.45498925 -0.379337321 7.814065686 0.917178553 995.3192098 2.335560957 2.287794431 -0.088407675 -0.217207887 0.047766526 0.128800212 54.17927397
3rd pair 2 187 44.8342246 12.70327648 -2.016533121 -0.235248009 -0.356305946 -0.476787564 7.815025296 0.920669555 998.8198084 2.198221724 2.250613989 -0.328690616 -0.166590155 -0.052392266 -0.16210046 51.84147617
3rd pair 3 287 29.41811847 12.62058392 -9.924641072 -9.768633556 -0.242477927 -0.306850746 7.886347716 0.919621749 998.485226 2.105943011 2.493346431 -0.417161276 0.069687717 -0.38740342 -0.486848993 49.17495992

So now let's go through some of the Flyers defensemen and see how they compare to the rest of the league. Quick reminder, these are even strength stats only. Also, because of the shortened season, the games played obviously will not match with the charts (which take averages from 82 game seasons).

Note: After each chart there will be two categories: pair and group. pair references which major group the player falls in based on minutes played (first chart). Group references what sub group the player falls in based on Relative Corsi (second chart)

Alright, here we go

Andreas Lilja


SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season ANDREASLILJA D 4 14.94 -2.1 -14.06 2.38 7.813 3.85 946 984 1 -2.11 2.01 0.68 3.11 1.33 -1.01 -2.79 35.9

Pair: 2nd pair

Group: 2

We did not see much of Andreas Lilja this year. Hampered with injuries, Lilja played only 4 games for the Flyers. He actually played very well in those 4 games, boasting a -2.1 Rel Corsi while playing very, very tough competition (rel Corsi QoC of 2.38). However, this is not very meaningful given the small sample size.

Lilja doesn't have a very strong history in terms of possession metrics, and given his age I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Lilja doesn't bring much in terms of Offensive production (career high of 15 points in 2005). He is a UFA this offseason, and will come very cheap if anyone wants to pick him up. But considering he hasn't played a full season since 2007-2008, I seriously doubt he will be in the NHL on opening day.

Andrej Meszaros

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season ANDREJMESZAROS D 11 14.31 -26.2 -25.16 -0.479 1.621 3.51 909 944 0.76 -0.28 3.05 1.32 1.04 1.73 -2.29 -1.6 42.5

Pair: 3rd pair

Group: 3

Mezaros is another Flyer's D-man who didn't play much this season because of injury (I'm noticing a trend here)

In the 11 games with the Flyers, playing high third pair minutes, Mezaros was awful. A Rel Corsi of -26.2, facing poorcompetition (-.479 Rel Corsi QoC). Mezaros's Goal differential numbers were also equally awful, though his abnormally low On ice shooting percentage of 3.51% clearly has something to do with those low numbers. Also imporant to note the 42.5% O zone start %.

With only 2 assists in 11 games, Mezaros wasn't pitching much in offensively either.

The data set is pretty small because of injuries. I'd like to believe this is more a product of a small sample size. Looking at his stats from past years on behindthenet.ca , in the past few years Mezaros has been far better than this year.

However, at 4 million (cap hit) Mezaros is vastly overpaid. If he can be traded I would be in favor of a trade (just to get rid of the contract).

Brandon Manning

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season BRANDONMANNING D 6 14.37 -7.7 -18.79 0.28 6.342 18.18 931 1113 5.57 3.24 2.78 0.45 2.33 2.33 2.79 2.79 40.4

Pair: 3rd pair

Group: 3


Manning got called up near the end of the season in injury relief. Playing only 6 games, it's tough to take anything from the above data. The Corsi data isn't overly impressive, but again the sample size is too small to really learn anything from the Corsi data.

The goal differential data is very good for Manning, but that is more of a product of being very, very luck, sporting a 1113 PDO.

Manning is only 23, and given he was undrafted there is no pressure to rush Manning. If he is to have a future in the NHL he is going to need more grooming at the AHL level.

Braydon Coburn

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season BRAYDONCOBURN D 33 18.12 -7.9 -7.22 0.416 0.773 6.59 888 954 1.81 -0.21 3.21 0.67 2.02 2.54 -1.4 -0.88 40.5

Pair: 1st pair

Group: 3

Ah, finally someone who actually played a decent amount of games. With 18.12 minutes per game, Coburn was the Flyers most active d-man at even strength (when healthy). Coburn's Corsi stats are not that impressive, and put him in the bottom group for 1st pair D-men. Coburn has started nearly 60% of his non-neutral zone shifts in the defensive zone, but Coburn also faced competition more appropriate for a 2nd pair forward rather than a top line defensemen.

With a PDO of only 954, Coburn should expect a rise in both on ice SH% and On ice Save percentage.

One thing I noticed was that Coburn performs best when paired with a puck moving defensemen. Last year, Coburn played nearly half his evens strength minutes with puck mover Kimmo Timmonen, and statistically Coburn was better possesion wise, even though he played tougher competition (Rel Corsi QoC in 2011-2012 of over 1). Coburn's best Rel Corsi came when he was paired with matt carle, another puck moving defensemen.

But this year, Coburn played much of the time with Nicklas Grossman, and as a result Coburn was the puck mover (since Grossman has the passing ability of a Tim Tebow), and as a result Coburn's play suffered.

Coburn needs to be placed with a puck moving D-man, like Kimmo or Gusty, in order for Coburn to play at his best,

Bruno Gervais

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season BRUNOGERVAIS D 37 15.48 -1.5 -4.19 -0.179 0.343 6.59 885 951 1.78 -0.66 3.35 0.55 2.44 2.8 -1.57 -1.21 44.8

Pair:2nd pair

Group: 2

The Flyers signed Gervais has a depth defensemen before last the 2012-2013 season, but injuries forced the Flyers to play Gervais over 15 minutes a game at even strength. And while is -1.5 Rel Corsi is not that bad for a second pair (slightly below average), he played poor competition for a second pair D-man.

Gervais only pitched in 1 goal and 5 assists for the year. One interesting thing to note was how unlucky Gervais was this year. With a PDO of 951, Gervais was definitely not getting the bounces. This partially accounts for Gervais' poor goal differential numbers (though some of that is caused by Gervais's own play).

Bruno can be a decent player if playing in a third pair role or as a depth D-man to fill in for injuries, but he isn't good enough to play second line minutes.

Erik Gustafsson

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season ERIKGUSTAFSSON D 27 16.52 -0.4 -7.8 0.349 1.874 7.32 921 994 2.02 -1.16 2.42 -0.84 3.18 3.26 -0.4 -0.32 41.2

Pair: 1st pair

Group:2


As a result on injuries, Gustaffson (like other young Flyer defensemen) had to step on in an increased role. Just barely playing enough minutes per game to qualify as a 1st pair D-man. After a strong showing with the Phantoms during the lockout, Gusty played some serious minutes in the NHL. However, a quick look at his WOWY numbers show that he did not have a constant D-partner. Playing about 1/4 of the season with Gervais, Gustaffson also spent decent time playing with practically every D-man on the roster.

Can we get his young man some line-mate constancy?

Anyways, Gusty had some decent production with 8 points and 3 goals in 27 games (that would be about 24 points and 9 goals over 82 games).

Gusty finished the year with a Rel Corsi pretty close to zero, pretty good for a young defensemen. He did play competition more appropriate for a second pair D-man (Rel Corsi QoC of .349), but he did start 59.8% of non neutral zone shifts in the defensive zone.

It's pretty obvious that Gustaffson isn't a first line defenseman. At best, he's a second pair D-man, on a better team a 3rd pair D-man. From just watching games I thought he moved the puck well (something the Flyers blueline has lacked in recent years). I think Gustaffson is a solid player who can definitely play in the NHL, but on a less prominent role than he played this season.

Jay Rosehill

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season JAYROSEHILL D 11 6.64 -22.5 -32.03 0.147 1.015 3.85 868 907 0.82 -2.63 4.11 1.59 3.45 2.52 -3.29 -4.22 19.1

Now I know Rosehill is not a defensemen (I think, I don't remember him much from the season besides that one goal he scored), but everywhere on the web besides behindthenet.ca says Rosehill is a winger. So . . .

For some strange reason, the Flyers decided to sign Rosehill to a multi year contract . I personally never approve of signing 4th line scrubs or bad depth defensemen for more than one year (actually signing them at all is bad, but if as a GM you feel the need to carry a fighter, at least sign him for only one year at the league minimum), but this is all an argument for another day.

Rosehill was pretty awful. In 11 games playing very low minutes (warning small sample size), Rosehill had a Rel Corsi of -22.5. That's pretty atrocious (like Colton Orr bad). Now he did play tough competition for a 4th line player, and for some reason was started almost exclusively in the defensive zone (cause it makes perfect sense to start your worst players in the D-zone), but Rosehill clearly is a terrible player (a quick look at Rosehill's page on behindthenet.cashows this).

Kent Huskins

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season KENTHUSKINS D 19 13.44 -19.9 -14.56 -0.331 -2.092 5.05 919 969 1.17 -2.45 2.11 -0.73 3.62 2.84 -0.94 -1.72 50.3

Pair: 3rd pair

Group: 3

Kent Huskins suited up 19 games for the Flyers. Playing third pair minutes, Huskins was not very effective at driving possession forward. His Rel Corsi of -19.9 is particularly poor. He faced close to average competition for a 3rd pair defenseman, and his zone start% is 50.3%, so nothing in terms of usage or competition jumps out immediately to explain Huskins poor play beyond Huskin's overall lack of talent.

Across the board, Huskins was poor, even for a third pair defensemen. This is of course not news to Flyers fans (though this awful study by some academics claims Kent Huskins is one of the best D-men in the NHL apparently)

Kent Huskins is a UFA this offseason, and I wouldn't advise the Flyers to resign Huskins.

Kimmo Timonen

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season KIMMOTIMONEN D 45 14.41 14.1 4.72 0.661 1.279 9.2 901 993 2.87 0.91 2.59 -0.41 1.96 3 0.28 1.32 49.9

Pair: 3rd pair

Group: 1

When I saw Kimmo's TOI/60, I did like a triple take and had to check on the internet. But given Kimmo's advanced age, it should be expected that he won't play as much, especially at even strength or on the penalty kill.

4th in the team in scoring, Kimmo's production was again solid in the shortened season. His Rel Corsi, like most recent years, was fantastic. Facing competition that a first pair D-man might face, Kimmo carrier play (rel Corsi of 14.1).

His Goal differential numbers are also fantastic, and he let up 1.32 goals less when on the ice then the Flyers let up with Kimmo off the ice. He is a great puck mover, and Eric has shown how great of a puck handler he is.

His WOWY numbers are also impressive.

Kurtis Foster

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season KURTISFOSTER D 23 11.46 -11.3 -16.39 -0.311 1.129 9.65 928 1025 2.5 0.13 2.73 -0.01 2.37 2.74 -0.23 0.14 44.2

Pair: 3rd pair

Group: 3

Luke Schenn

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season LUKESCHENN D 47 17.88 6.9 -1.07 0.683 1.32 9.22 906 999 2.71 0.63 2.5 -0.42 2.08 2.92 0.21 1.05 45.8

Pair: 1

Group: 1

There were heavy expectations on Luke Schenn this year. With the year JVR had in Toronto, most people expected Luke Schenn to play very well.

I'd say a decent percentage of Flyers fans were disappointed in Schenn's play this season. With only 11 points on the season, the average fan wouldn't be too impressed with Schenn's season. But we aren't average fans are we. We can look deeper into a players stats and see the positives or negatives. And with Schenn, there are both.

Playing the most minutes per game of any Flyers D-man, Schenn put together Rel Corsi of 6.9. His WOWY charts paint a pretty good picture as well. He played pretty standard competition (rel Corsi QoC of .683) for a 1st line D-man. He also sported an impressive Rel Gd/60 of over 1, which is very good. Schenn's Fenwick (shots + missed shots) for percentage was 51.3%, impressive for a player on a the 22nd ranked team in Fenwick for %.

One concern I have is looking at the below chart:

When on ice Together SCHENN when apart Teammate when apart
Player Pos TOI GF% CF20 CA20 CF% TOI GF20 GA20 GF% CF20 CA20 CF% TOI GA20 GF% CF20 CA20 CF%
TIMONEN, KIMMO D 400:19:00 53.1 19.43 16.99 53.4 424:55:00 0.753 0.988 43.2 17.04 19.53 46.6 229:35:00 0.697 52.9 18.73 18.99 49.7

This WOWY chart is showing that Timonen, who played in about half of Schenn's minutes, may have carried Schenn. Timonen was far better than Schenn was when neither were playing each other. Now it should be noted that these two players are a very good match. Timonen is a top puck mover, while Schenn can focus more on a shutdown role with Timonen on the ice. But this data shows that Schenn's overall possession numbers may be a bit inflated because of playing with Timonen.

Matthew Konan

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season MATTHEWKONAN D 2 15.07 -9.3 -17.92 -0.911 4.932 0 1000 1000 0 -2.59 0 -1.73 2.59 1.73 0 -0.86 45

Pair: 2

Group: 3

Konan had a short stint with the Flyers this season. He actually played a lot, with 15 minutes per game at even strength. With 30 minutes played, we can't pull much at all from this data. As expected from a young call up, Konan spent a lot of time in his own end (Rel Corsi of -9.3, Corsi on of -17.92).

Konan had only 6 points in 45 games with the Phantoms, so needless to say he isn't an offensive star. Of course, Konan had no business playing with the Flyers, and only was called up because on injuries throughout the season. Konan will need a lot of grooming before he can crack a 3rd pair D-man spot on the Flyers.

Nicklas Grossman

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season NICKLASGROSSMAN D 30 14.63 -6.5 -6.29 0.63 0.767 7.37 911 985 1.91 -0.24 2.32 -0.74 2.15 3.06 -0.41 0.5 43.6

Pair: 2nd pair

Group: 3

(side note, Grossman made the "second pair" category by .02 minutes per game)

Grossman, like most years in his career, played tough minutes (A rel Corsi QoC of .63) for a 2nd pair D-man. However, He also sported a zone start% of 43.6%. But regardless, his Rel Corsi of -6.5 is not very impressive. Although his possession numbers

are better than last year, they still are very poor for an NHL defenseman.


Grossman sported a Fenwick For % of 48.6%, 3rd best amongst Flyers D-men (100 minutes or more)

With only 4 points in for the season, its safe to say we can't count on Grossman for much offensive production. He is purely a shutdown D-man, but I have serious doubts on his abilities to accomplish that role.

Oliver Lauridsen

SEASON NAME POS GP TOI/60 Corsi Relative Corsi On Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC On-Ice Sh% On-Ice Sv% PDO GF On/60 Rel GF/60 GA On/60 Rel GA/60 (negative is better) GF Off/60 GA Off/60 GD/60 Rel GD/60 Off Zone Start %
2012-2013 Season OLIVERLAURIDSEN D 15 13.92 0.1 -12.36 0.747 2.971 11.58 881 997 3.16 0.1 3.45 0.98 3.06 2.47 -0.29 -0.88 41.5

Pair: 3

Group: 2

Oliver Lauridson (who I nicknamed the giraffe), was a big surprise to me when I looked at his stats. I will admit that upon watching him for 15 games, I honestly thought he was horrific. He seemed to be out of position often, very slow, and awful with the puck.

However, the stats paint a much better picture. As a third pair D-man, he finished with an above average Rel Corsi for a third liner. He also played tough competition, with a Rel Corsi QoC of .747. Combined that with a zone start% of 41.5%, Lauridson actually played some tough minutes. Lauridson's OppFF20 (opponents Fenwick For per 20 minutes), was the 4th highest in the NHL among defensemen with 200 minutes. (OppFF20 is a measure of the offensive talent of opponents). This means Lauridson was actually playing some of the toughest minutes in the NHL among defensemen.

Why Laviolette played Lauridson in the role, I have no clue. So Lauridson actually seems to have performed well in a ridiculously tough role for a rookie call up.




This item was written by a member of this community and is not necessarily endorsed by <em>Broad Street Hockey</em>.

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